The Volcanoes - Gotta be a false alarm -423 squid

I know John gets good prices but does anyone else think this is absolutely ridiculous for this?

fook

  On 03/08/2011 at 19:24, Ernie Andrews said:

The Volcanoes - Gotta be a false alarm -423 squid

I know John gets good prices but does anyone else think this is absolutely ridiculous for this?

mad i got £75 f mine

Thought Yvonne Verne was cheap at £1,414 though

Forgot about it

Richard

Manship is always silly prices ! thats why i dont buy his books , it makes me laugh when i want to buy a 45 and the seller would mention what it is in manships , does he actually make the prices up himself and then we all live by it like a bible ???

Edited August 3, 201113 yr by soulgirl85

  On 03/08/2011 at 19:35, soulgirl85 said:

Manship is always silly prices ! thats why i dont buy his books , it makes me laugh when i want to buy a 45 and the seller would mention what it is in manships , does he actually make the prices up himself and then we all live by it like a bible ???

You don't buy his books because his auctions attract top dollar !!? JM's prices are a starting point,a reference point.

When you're buying you can quote who you like,when you're selling you can quote JM's.

  On 03/08/2011 at 19:24, Ernie Andrews said:

The Volcanoes - Gotta be a false alarm -423 squid

I know John gets good prices but does anyone else think this is absolutely ridiculous for this?

Yep but us old timers got these records cheap. Just dug out my copy - hmm sounds right for today methinks - def playable at a niter. Lots of newer recruits out there and not too many copies on popsike compared with say 'laws of love' and their other harthon 45. Steve

Edited August 3, 201113 yr by Steve G

I was thinking before this of putting up mine for sale at around 30 quid cos it has a small chip in the run in that doesnt affect play!

It aint going anywhere now!

People shouldn't keep using Popsike as a carved in stone reference point, there's thousands of records sold which aren't on that site, good example is a Davie Jones & The King Bees on Vocalion which I myself sold, you'd have thought a top UK rarity like that would have been included.

  On 04/08/2011 at 08:43, Pete S said:

People shouldn't keep using Popsike as a carved in stone reference point, there's thousands of records sold which aren't on that site, good example is a Davie Jones & The King Bees on Vocalion which I myself sold, you'd have thought a top UK rarity like that would have been included.

always said that popsike only shows a percentage pete .i`m not sure what that percentage is but it certainly misses a lot of stuff. also prices are all over the place so its just something to keep in mind for reference same as johns books.. at the end of the day we have to make our own minds up what we buy and sell for and live and die by that sword

dave

Prices are like "state of the art technology" they are soon out of date. Different factors and market forces involved, supply, demand and what a buyer willing to pay, peoples rapidly diminishing income levels. Ebay/popsike prices are IMO one of the last you should consider when settling on a price as they aren't a true reflection of the price, all too often it's the result of two over zealous bidders. Many collectors and dealers avoid ebay these days. People who buy and sell person to person are the best guides to a price, there's plenty on here. But its like said use as many guides as possible when determining the price of a record.

Popsike tell you HERE how they operate.

If you'd asked me how much for Yvonne Vernee I'd have said £1800/£2000? Volcanos is tough but don't think anyone would have predicted that price.

  On 04/08/2011 at 08:43, Pete S said:

People shouldn't keep using Popsike as a carved in stone reference point, there's thousands of records sold which aren't on that site, good example is a Davie Jones & The King Bees on Vocalion which I myself sold, you'd have thought a top UK rarity like that would have been included.

always use collectors frenzy Pete fro daily additions.... - updates daily prices from evil bay and more accurate than Popsike ...

even brownies priceguide is on line on the anglo site but i dont think its been updated from his original book..richard caiton i`d like to get near you is £300.anybody wanna sell me one for that......i`ll stretch it to £400

dave

  On 04/08/2011 at 09:56, glynthornhill said:

always use collectors frenzy Pete fro daily additions.... - updates daily prices from evil bay and more accurate than Popsike ...

but its still ebay glyn ..prices all over the place

dave

Think the original thread pointed not on prices who ou can find on popsike or collectors fenzy, neither on JM´s Book prices, but on the fact that people a paying prices on jm´s auction that would never got reach on the bay. I think popsike is a great tool if you know how you use it. If one record went 5 time in a year for the same price i think that is valid.

Back to JM´s auction prices....Reminding the auction of the chalrles simmons a few months back, don´t know the condition of this, bt went for 666 GBP three weeks later a friend of mine got his on ebay in at least vg+ for a third less. You should think that the prices on ebay went higher cause there a more clients looking for the same record... but the prices on jms auction are heavy sometimes.

Edited August 4, 201113 yr by spinneaussplit

What did the Yvonne Baker Parkway WD go for the other day on Mannies auction, please?

IGNORE - just spotted Joe post with the recent results on.

MODS feel free to delete this message.

Edited August 4, 201113 yr by Anoraks Corner

Auctions are incredibly unpredictable, we've given up trying to guess what any listing will end up at.

Every Raresoulman auction listing is mail-shotted THREE times at least into over 10,000 selected collectors email boxes. So each listing would receive we'd like to think at least 30,000 viewings before the end game - Plus of course all the raresoulman.col.uk website click-ons, + YOU TUBE and FACEBOOK we are now vigorously utilizing. So exposure of the auction product is regularly "arrowed" and persistent.

Price Guides are a GUIDE and a reference point - certainly not bibles - PRICE GUIDE 6 is now being created now and will have to be made in TWO volumes..as the info covers at a guess over 800 pages . far too big to handle comfortably, although an iPhone ap is also being crafted which will hopefully have label scan of every listing...we have a scan for - which will cover 1000s and 1000s.

Some of you will also have noticed the last two years - every new listing on the site carries release dates, area of recording or label, plus we are now adding writers, produced, arranger credits - this will be searchable on the site very soon.

You can't have too much information whilst looking for vinyl. We aimed to provide as much valid info as possible then you can make your own mind ups.

I use popsike every day - it's a really useful tool, in fact essential - and i use every price guide I can get my hands on.

But auction prices are just totally unpredictable, as we experience every week.

John

  On 04/08/2011 at 11:49, john manship said:

I use popsike every day - it's a really useful tool, in fact essential - and i use every price guide I can get my hands on.

But auction prices are just totally unpredictable, as we experience every week.

John

Do you ever use other people's sales lists and make comparisons though John, and ever change what you have the item listed for as a result?

Serious question.

  On 04/08/2011 at 11:49, john manship said:

...plus we are now adding writers, produced, arranger credits - this will be searchable on the site very soon...

Do yourself a favour and use the adjective "written" as in "written by ..." for your description, "wrote by ..." is just plain wrong.

  On 04/08/2011 at 11:55, Pete S said:

Do you ever use other people's sales lists and make comparisons though John, and ever change what you have the item listed for as a result?

Serious question.

I think there can be only one answer - No

Pete,

I never ever look at dealers lists. But I do cross reference all day long with major dealers sites and vinyl market places are selling at or if any other copies are available on GEMM etc. but listing of collectors or dealers sales is too time consuming ton view. I aim to process 100+ records a day so time has to be used wisely.

2nd. question we constantly change prices, but only on the data our system throws up or comments on records on sites like this. But not on what other people list them for.You've seen how our system works first hand, i could not imagine a more reliable source, than every record we've handled for over a decade having it own unique history.

  On 04/08/2011 at 12:19, john manship said:

Pete,

I never ever look at dealers lists. But I do cross reference all day long with major dealers sites and vinyl market places are selling at or if any other copies are available on GEMM etc. but listing of collectors or dealers sales is too time consuming ton view. I aim to process 100+ records a day so time has to be used wisely.

2nd. question we constantly change prices, but only on the data our system throws up or comments on records on sites like this. But not on what other people list them for.You've seen how our system works first hand, i could not imagine a more reliable source, than every record we've handled for over a decade having it own unique history.

John, the problem is, if you base prices on gemm or ebay or popsike, none of these prices are real; gemm prices include a giant commission to the website, and ebay/popsike are auction prices anmd not 'real world' prices, in the same that some of the prices you get on your auctions aren't real world prices either. I wouldn't, personally, use any of the three you mention as a guide to what a record's actually worth, I'd see what others are selling it for, get an everage, and then undercut them

I find Popsike quite useful because it represents reality, regardless of the size of the sample. For example, I have a Yum Yums demo I'm considering selling so I took the last 10 Popsike values, took an average and landed on a 650 quid set sale asking price. This sample of 10 spanned a period of 5 years so market forces are ironed out. John, Pat or Tim's sites, or eBay for that matter, could possibly have attracted a higher price but I think its a reasonable way of valuing your records.

Cheers

Pete

  On 04/08/2011 at 09:56, glynthornhill said:

always use collectors frenzy Pete fro daily additions.... - updates daily prices from evil bay and more accurate than Popsike ...

  On 04/08/2011 at 10:09, dave pinch said:

but its still ebay glyn ..prices all over the place

dave

Reckon there's more sales missing on CF than popsike and when I've used it results often poor in relation to popsike.

I don't know why ebay don't have some sort of accessible archive of its' sales for reference, regardless of whether it was less than or more than $30 or even unsold, then you would get a better reflection of value, not just examples of the ones that fit the criteria laid down by popsike, the ones they manage to catch at that as well.

  On 04/08/2011 at 12:12, Benji said:

Do yourself a favour and use the adjective "written" as in "written by ..." for your description, "wrote by ..." is just plain wrong.

  On 04/08/2011 at 10:08, dave pinch said:

even brownies priceguide is on line on the anglo site but i dont think its been updated from his original book..richard caiton i`d like to get near you is £300.anybody wanna sell me one for that......i`ll stretch it to £400

dave

Dave if you get one I'll give you £450 for it :D

I hope the fake bidders haven't started bidding on John's auctions because a copy of Humpty Dumpty by eric Morris on Blue Beat sold for £354, now this record is worth no more than £20 and I doubt there has ever been a copy that has sold for £50 or more in the entire history of record collecting, I've had at least a dozen copies of it, it's as nearly as common as something like Ten Commandments Of Man. There is one on Ebay BUY IT NOW for £5, one for £39, one for £25 and one up for bids, that's 4 copies just on UK ebay. How can a record like that sell for £354? It's beyond me.

p.s. there are also 6 copies on US Ebay, 5 are British, one is $8

Edited August 4, 201113 yr by Pete S

I have actually bought from John's auction and sold on for a profit before!! There are some bargains to be had.

i think popsike is great and use that along with whats on Gemm, oh here and any other dealers sites i now of, i only use them as guides and then make me mind up what im willing to pay cos i wouldnt want to pay £100 for a tune i could get elsewhere for £50, ive had some bargains on JMs auctions and had bargains on here and on Gemm and on ebay etc etc etc, what a record goes for today can change and could be double or even half this time next week but some tunes stay the same all the time it seems, the only tunes prices i get amazed by on JMs auctions are some of the tunes you could by form almost anywhere and are quite easily available, me i read every sales list and try to remember every price which is impossible but some do stick and its always good for future reference if needed, you can never know too much but knowing too much can make you think you know it all and when you get like that you can easily make mistakes so double check if not sure and thats when all the sites inc popsike etc etc come in handy

i still know fook all though

  On 04/08/2011 at 08:43, Pete S said:

People shouldn't keep using Popsike as a carved in stone reference point, there's thousands of records sold which aren't on that site, good example is a Davie Jones & The King Bees on Vocalion which I myself sold, you'd have thought a top UK rarity like that would have been included.

I wasn't referencing popsike as a pricing point, merely noting that copies of False Alarm appear with far less frequency than other Volcano's titles. At the end of the day for all the bleating on here, the price at auction is the slightly higher value that at least two people have placed on an item. Nothing more nothing less.

I also think pricing is becoming far less predictable. Some gems don't make what you think, others go way over what you think is a reasonable price. And a lot of stuff you can't sell at all.

Edited August 4, 201113 yr by Steve G

i for one have to say that over the years whether an auction piece or a set sale item,ive been nothing but overjoyed,what you get from john manships is reliability,impeccable proffesionalism,and at the end of the day,who cares about references to ebay,popsike etc...if you want it, you will pay what you wanna pay...end of! as for the site itself,nothing comes close to his,its the dogs b*****ks!

  On 03/08/2011 at 19:35, soulgirl85 said:

Manship is always silly prices ! thats why i dont buy his books , it makes me laugh when i want to buy a 45 and the seller would mention what it is in manships , does he actually make the prices up himself and then we all live by it like a bible ???

Manships guides are a way of trying to control the market.

Most ofl the USA dealers have them!!! He could not have the USA sellers undercutting the UK prices!

  On 04/08/2011 at 18:10, Perception said:

Manships guides are a way of trying to control the market.

Most ofl the USA dealers have them!!! He could not have the USA sellers undercutting the UK prices!

The USA dealers may have them,but can you blame them?..They see a quick buck to made ,and what better back up on prices to pull from under the counter as JM's guides.No more selling cheap.....

You dont seriously think John "feeds" his guides to keep prices up,do you????..Its a case of USA dealers wanting what's in the guides.

A full circle in a way.We have pillaged the USA vinyl cheap,made our own scene and demand,in the process UK dealers become more knowlegdeable,creating our own pricing.Dealers in USA see this.... and there you have it .

well for me,its either terry pratchett,john grisham,hustler to read in bed,but id rather pull out the jm guide,hours on hours of good reading!

  On 03/08/2011 at 19:24, Ernie Andrews said:

The Volcanoes - Gotta be a false alarm -423 squid

I know John gets good prices but does anyone else think this is absolutely ridiculous for this?

what is JM mark up on these daft pries.

  On 04/08/2011 at 23:47, garysoul82 said:

what is JM mark up on these daft pries.

what?

What I want to know is if when shopping for records, Manship has ever had one of his price guides pulled out & used on him by record store employees? That would be pretty funny.

JM: How much for these old soul 45s?

Store Clerk: Hold on a minute while I get the price guide.....

JM: ......................

An acquaintance on another record collecting forum, said that Manship came through his store in the US buying 45s a while back & he so badly wanted to whip out the price guide but just couldn't bring himself to do it

Edited August 5, 201113 yr by Kris Holmes

HI ALL..... As you are aware, I have collected records since 1966 an started DEE JAYING in late 1970, by 1972 I had a decent amount of Soul R&B FUNK & some 45s that we ould call Rare Soul, but it was not till I met Mick Smith I had any idea about the true value of my 45s, I had a clue that some uptempo soul was collectable, back in 1970 after meeting John Wilkinson from Notts, who was a wheel goer and all other venues,

However it was through Mick & Clive that bought everything to-gether,

I am all to well aware that things have moved on over the years and peoples tasts have changed, but it was through Mick I learnt how to value a record, and this does not always mean by price, Next time you meet Mick at a Record Fair poll out a copy of Follow my Heart and see how he reacts to this record, so value is about quality,

Pete John what I want to no is this, over the last 15 years all I ever see on lists and on the WEB are records in VG + condition, in the early days just getting hold of a rare record bought me delite, So with all these smashing EX+ MINT- and the patter used to sell them, what are you doing with all the VG & Fair copys as I would buy them, the only person who I have obtained the Rare stuff from, but he would not sell himself but knows I am not botherd as long as it's origanal and plays is BUTCH, So if he gets them he places them, why cant other deallers do the same, coz I aint got no money to complete my UK soul collection, I promise that I will give a crap price for a crap record, and I will throw some free verbal in for nothing.

DAVE

  On 05/08/2011 at 01:35, Kris Holmes said:

What I want to know is if when shopping for records, Manship has ever had one of his price guides pulled out & used on him by record store employees? That would be pretty funny.

JM: How much for these old soul 45s?

Store Clerk: Hold on a minute while I get the price guide.....

JM: ......................

An acquaintance on another record collecting forum, said that Manship came through his store in the US buying 45s a while back & he so badly wanted to whip out the price guide but just couldn't bring himself to do it

I've been in stores where dealers have told me they pulled out the Manship guide when John was in the store. I'm sure he could fill in more details probably.

  On 05/08/2011 at 05:05, boba said:

I've been in stores where dealers have told me they pulled out the Manship guide when John was in the store. I'm sure he could fill in more details probably.

i can't understand the logic of why i should be bothered if someone pulls my price guide whilst I'm on a trip, it happens all the time.We actually GIVE price guides to "vinyl hounds" whom we have built a relationship with in the USA and pay a percentage of the listing - only rule is we don't buy marked vinyl unless it is something rare.

The Price Guide for us at least, has bred trust . We have never been "secretive" about perceived values of records, that breeds mistrust and narrows your options of where you can buy from' We just try and use good open retail sense. Which amounts to the more people who trust you the more records you are able to buy - and we have various crate-diggers in various states who use our guide and sell to us. We are more comfortable with - open, transparent dealings to try and build a lifetime contacts and supplies, and of course you couldn't buy the level of advertising the book creates.

Edited August 5, 201113 yr by john manship

  On 05/08/2011 at 06:13, john manship said:

i can't understand the logic of why i should be bothered if someone pulls my price guide whilst I'm on a trip, it happens all the time.We actually GIVE price guides to "vinyl hounds" whom we have built a relationship with in the USA and pay a percentage of the listing - only rule is we don't buy marked vinyl unless it is something rare.

The Price Guide for us at least, has bred trust . We have never been "secretive" about perceived values of records, that breeds mistrust and narrows your options of where you can buy from' We just try and use good open retail sense. Which amounts to the more people who trust you the more records you are able to buy - and we have various crate-diggers in various states who use our guide and sell to us. We are more comfortable with - open, transparent dealings to try and build a lifetime contacts and supplies, and of course you couldn't buy the level of advertising the book creates.

John are all your prices in the guide books for Mint condition and the price you feel you would fetch at time of printing ??

you must be the biggest record dealer of Soul on the planet with a massive data base and highly trusted and respected so you thoery for handing the guides to crate diggers to help them find tunes of value you could move on when they know their percentage of the find sounds like good busines sense to me

Yes - as it states at the beginning of all our guides values are for MINT- vinyl and FLAWLESS labels. All values we adjust according to condition, demand market conditions. A point every has overlooked the values also include 20% uk purchase tax = VAT .

It is what it is - A GUIDE - but you will find with Edition SIX will hopefully be the most in-depth documentation of any record guide in the world. Even if you don't like the values - the guide is so much more that just "price gauging" which is less than 10% of the info you can reference. Anyway I enjoy documenting and referencing, my brain could never store anywhere near the amount of information the guide provides.

  On 05/08/2011 at 07:41, john manship said:

Yes - as it states at the beginning of all our guides values are for MINT- vinyl and FLAWLESS labels. All values we adjust according to condition, demand market conditions. A point every has overlooked the values also include 20% uk purchase tax = VAT .

It is what it is - A GUIDE - but you will find with Edition SIX will hopefully be the most in-depth documentation of any record guide in the world. Even if you don't like the values - the guide is so much more that just "price gauging" which is less than 10% of the info you can reference. Anyway I enjoy documenting and referencing, my brain could never store anywhere near the amount of information the guide provides.

Think my brain has given up, the memory is getting worse so all these guides are a great point of reference. I buy as many books and guides that are available. Like you said you can never have enough information. Looking forward to Edition 6

  On 04/08/2011 at 19:21, KevH said:

The USA dealers may have them,but can you blame them?..They see a quick buck to made ,and what better back up on prices to pull from under the counter as JM's guides.No more selling cheap.....

You dont seriously think John "feeds" his guides to keep prices up,do you????..Its a case of USA dealers wanting what's in the guides.

A full circle in a way.We have pillaged the USA vinyl cheap,made our own scene and demand,in the process UK dealers become more knowlegdeable,creating our own pricing.Dealers in USA see this.... and there you have it .

very well put I think, AND not to mention hours ogling the guide when you're a wannabe who's short on knowledge, I remember trying to fathom what a Barbara Acklin or Syl Johnson on Special Agent would look like, still don't have either of them, but wanting is half the fun isn't it!

  On 04/08/2011 at 17:55, dobber said:

i for one have to say that over the years whether an auction piece or a set sale item,ive been nothing but overjoyed,what you get from john manships is reliability,impeccable proffesionalism,and at the end of the day,who cares about references to ebay,popsike etc...if you want it, you will pay what you wanna pay...end of! as for the site itself,nothing comes close to his,its the dogs b*****ks!

  On 04/08/2011 at 23:47, garysoul82 said:

what is JM mark up on these daft pries.

You mean auction commission? Its between him and the seller i guess,unless someone else wants to know.? All part of running a business.

  On 03/08/2011 at 19:24, Ernie Andrews said:

The Volcanoes - Gotta be a false alarm -423 squid

I know John gets good prices but does anyone else think this is absolutely ridiculous for this?

Only goes to prove, yet again, that something is only worth what someone will pay for it....................

  On 05/08/2011 at 06:13, john manship said:

i can't understand the logic of why i should be bothered if someone pulls my price guide whilst I'm on a trip, it happens all the time.We actually GIVE price guides to "vinyl hounds" whom we have built a relationship with in the USA and pay a percentage of the listing - only rule is we don't buy marked vinyl unless it is something rare.

The Price Guide for us at least, has bred trust . We have never been "secretive" about perceived values of records, that breeds mistrust and narrows your options of where you can buy from' We just try and use good open retail sense. Which amounts to the more people who trust you the more records you are able to buy - and we have various crate-diggers in various states who use our guide and sell to us. We are more comfortable with - open, transparent dealings to try and build a lifetime contacts and supplies, and of course you couldn't buy the level of advertising the book creates.

I honestly don't think of it as just a price guide anymore, as the 5th edition is so much more than that....it's a mine of information and surely a must have for anyone who collects/buys/sells? John the iphone app sounds like a brilliant idea and I'll be downloading it as soon as it's available....info on the go, without carting huge books around

I've bought/sold/traded records with John more times than I can remember and for rare items have often got credit equalling his book price so if he's using the book to keep prices falsely inflated then he's costing himself money almost constantly . We've talked prices lots of time as well and whilst he might not agree with my view on certain prices he does always listen. In fact the only bad thing about John is that he didn't sell me a certain Jimmy Phillips 45, instead he played it out with an evil little grin on his face when he guested for me

  On 04/08/2011 at 19:21, KevH said:

Dealers in USA see this.... and there you have it .

Thats the point, a lot of dealers in the USA didn't see the prices, until the price guides blew it!!

  On 05/08/2011 at 18:00, Perception said:

Thats the point, a lot of dealers in the USA didn't see the prices, until the price guides blew it!!

I see where you're coming from now.Damn those price guides.

true, the americans.... in the main, werent interested in these sort records until they knew we wanted em