The Biggest Insult On Here

[Steve G]

I am sure boots were played at WIgan and we all know about the emi's and tailor made soussan soul fox stuff as well. However back then the scene was very different with big sounds breaking nationwide in a week and most of the punters were still in school etc. Not like today at all, where it's just fellas (and a frew gals) with a box of treasured records. In any event Wigan Casino played some awful stuff. And it is a shopping centre now, and so on a number of levels it is not the benchmark I choose to use for comparrison purposes - far from it in fact. I'd rather look at clubs like Stafford and the 100 Club, and what's been going on since Wigan closed it's doors. I doubt boots have graced the decks at these places, except for possibly Ady or Dave's cowboy boots . The clubs round these parts do not play boots either, except the mod ones, and that's really a different scene - a parallal universe in fact (our paths don't cross). I don't believe boots are played at places like Va Va Voom, SITC, Groovesville, Lifeline,Caliente, Bamburg, Stoke, or come to mention it Bob A's US venues either.

Certainly as a collector who has worked hard at this sport for a long time, I will stick to my views on this thanks, whether others agree or not.

Perhaps I am more aligned to the rare soul scene, rather than the northern scene, and maybe that's the difference. However - Rod you can rest assured I wouldn't really use some finishing DJ's bootleg of Eddie Parker as a frisbee to behead some unsuspecting dancefloor junky as "Odd Job" did in James Bond with the metal lined bowler hat! So you can pack in the "infantile" references cheers.

If I accept what several of you are telling me, that in certain parts of the country, boots are "de rigeur" and the scene is really "just a bunch of mates playing the music they like", then fine, it is what it is, but that's not the scene I am on. And if that is the case can't see why these folk don't just use CD's or better still a laptop or i-phone. (except they are really trying to play "pretend DJ with rare vinyl records" - a bit like a fake wannabee Elvis) . If these folk used a laptop, or their i-phone they could carry with them many more titles to keep the public happy, than they can ever fit into their box. I went to a wedding in Exeter and the DJ had 15,000 titles available to him on his laptop - no more "No sorry Fred I left it at home", so the opportunities are endless - makes more sense to me than lugging around a heavy box of popular pressings. Carrying these boots around with you seems a bit like going to see a tribute band rather than the real thing.... so, come on boot boys, shed your inhibitions and at least be honest, and play the music you love on something other than "fake" copy vinyl if it really doesn't matter to you.

Right off to dig out some OV.......Wright that is, not vinyl

Brett - Hi!

[Guest Brett F]

Mr Guarnori, splendidly put, i feel this case is closed your honour...Constable take them down...

[Dave Moore]

I am a CD DJ and I look up to him as he is a laptop DJ

I am a laptop DJ and I look down on him as he is a CD DJ but look up to him as he is a bootleg vinyl DJ

I am a bootleg vinyl DJ ( and some time promoter), and I look down on him as he is a laptop DJ but I look up to him as he is an OVO DJ

I am an OVO DJ and I look down on him as he is a bootleg DJ but I look up to him as he is BUTCH

I am BUTCH and I look down on everyone!

Sound familiar?

And that's why some blokes lug boxes of pressings about. They simply want to be seen as a "Northern Soul DJ".

Regards,

Dave

[Modernsoulsucks]

Well Steve if you're now saying it was all in gest and you wouldn't make a big deal of it then I certainly do withdraw the infantile reference.

I do not look down on those who play or buy boots. My only quibble with it is that you're highly unlikely to hear anything new if nothing is OVO but then it doesn't take more than 5 minutes of examining OVO playlists to come to the same conclusion there too in many instances.

ROD

[soulsalmon]

Class Dave ,still remember the original sketch,was it that was the week that was ?,John Cleese,Ronnie Barker & Dud More ?

[KevH]

I am a CD DJ and I look up to him as he is a laptop DJ

I am a laptop DJ and I look down on him as he is a CD DJ but look up to him as he is a bootleg vinyl DJ

I am a bootleg vinyl DJ ( and some time promoter), and I look down on him as he is a laptop DJ but I look up to him as he is an OVO DJ

I am an OVO DJ and I look down on him as he is a bootleg DJ but I look up to him as he is BUTCH

I am BUTCH and I look down on everyone!

Sound familiar?

And that's why some blokes lug boxes of pressings about. They simply want to be seen as a "Northern Soul DJ".

Regards,

Dave

Should i be worried that we are going into meltdown re: ovo/boots.? The end is nigh.!!!!

[Pete S]

I am a CD DJ and I look up to him as he is a laptop DJ

I am a laptop DJ and I look down on him as he is a CD DJ but look up to him as he is a bootleg vinyl DJ

I am a bootleg vinyl DJ ( and some time promoter), and I look down on him as he is a laptop DJ but I look up to him as he is an OVO DJ

I am an OVO DJ and I look down on him as he is a bootleg DJ but I look up to him as he is BUTCH

I am BUTCH and I look down on everyone!

Sound familiar?

And that's why some blokes lug boxes of pressings about. They simply want to be seen as a "Northern Soul DJ".

Regards,

Dave

Very good Dave, remember it well, Ronnie Corbett was the little guy

[Pete Eccles]

Class Dave ,still remember the original sketch,was it that was the week that was ?,John Cleese,Ronnie Barker & Dud More ?

No, that version must be a boot

[Guest Bearsy]

as said

a collector collects and desires the real thing , and dare I say regardless of the merits of the music in some instances.

a dj to be succesfull has to play the right music to the right punters

and most puinters ( will say the majority of whom dont come on here) just want to listen and dance to whatever genre of the music they like

3 differing positions , you can be all three or any other combination

think the people who matter most are the punters who lays down their hard earned to be entertained

of which I am one,

everything else is subjective and I dont subscribe to the mantra of OVO thats just a ploy by some to keep up the prices and to discourage people from dj,in

im a paying punter and i care, i dj and i care, i collect and i care and i also know many others that do care, i know plenty that dont care too, you do what you want but please dont speak for everyone or most just speak for yourself thats all that matters

[Hammersoul]

Ok, well i'm in tonight but out Sat and Sunday (ps..I'm on Solar Radio Sunday and i'm not playing anything but original records...., see below) and the wife and daughter have gone to her mothers....so i'm out on a limb......Enjoy your night.

Wife/Daughter out,empty house,bored,computers on,got money to spend on o.v.o ...With your reputation

[Billy Freemantle]

I can understand why the scene is built around original vinyl etc but i just hate those who stand on their petty little soap boxes and actually get really nasty about it...odd when you think about it, wonder what a psychiatrist would make of it

Without original vinyl there wouldn't be a scene at all. I think that's why people get nasty. Thank god that they do. It allows the rest of us to eventually hear the music.

[Ian Dewhirst]

And if that is the case can't see why these folk don't just use CD's or better still a laptop or i-phone. (except they are really trying to play "pretend DJ with rare vinyl records" - a bit like a fake wannabee Elvis) . If these folk used a laptop, or their i-phone they could carry with them many more titles to keep the public happy, than they can ever fit into their box. I went to a wedding in Exeter and the DJ had 15,000 titles available to him on his laptop - no more "No sorry Fred I left it at home", so the opportunities are endless - makes more sense to me than lugging around a heavy box of popular pressings. Carrying these boots around with you seems a bit like going to see a tribute band rather than the real thing.... so, come on boot boys, shed your inhibitions and at least be honest, and play the music you love on something other than "fake" copy vinyl if it really doesn't matter to you.

Right off to dig out some OV.......Wright that is, not vinyl

Brett - Hi!

OK, you've touched on an interesting point here Steve.

It's interesting that I would have absolutely 100% agreed with your sentiments when I was happily locked into collecting rare Soul full time,

predominently throughout the first half of the 1970's. Anybody who elected to play bootlegs throughout that period was basically lame and lacked imagination in my eyes and I still believe that's true some 36 years later. Bootlegs have always been an easy way out for pretenders and I don't think my position has really changed ever since.

So, in 1976, after 5 wonderful years of deejaying at the height of the scene back then, I decided to move on, partly because I felt that values were becoming distorted and mainly because I was ready to explore other areas. In fact, to finance the move, I sold my key Northern collection and moved to the U.S. and effectively switched from being a collector to a dealer. So, as any professional dealer will probably confirm, once you make that particular switch, you tend to lose a degree of personal emotional connection to records and look at the whole thing with a different perspective and certainly more objectivity. Which meant that, as a key example, when I found the second known copy of "The Duck"/"Love Runs Out" - Willie Hutch (other than Soussan's), it got my heart pumping because it was a killer mystery solved and a great find, but not a record that I would be destined to personally own because it was more use to someone else other than me. In other words, my priorities had changed. The record would have been wasted on my shelves because, great as it was, it would only have been a vanity item for me by then, alongside many others. Effectively, I was no longer a serious long-term collector but merely a part-time curator, which actually suited me fine. And still does. I would rather pass my records on to people who can use them much more effectively than me, get some proper value out of them and spread them to a wider audience. It's a philosophy which has always served me well. I like the idea that records from my collection have generally always gone to the right people, managed to reach the right audience and eventually realised their true potential. It's lovely to be a key part of the chain rather than the record being one of many thousands on a shelf going nowhere fast.

So I've always seen personal ownership of a physical record as being a somewhat transitory thing. If I'd have kept the first known copy of Si Hightower forever it may have earned me some browny points amongst a few serious collectors but it would have been a waste of a great record in the grand scheme of things. That's why it eventually went to Colin Dilnot because he was the right guy for that record at that time. The right decision as it turned out.

But here lies the rub in my eyes. I found the record in the first place, nurtured it and spread it to the right people for a few years and then eventually passed it on to the right person thus ensuring it's longevity and eventual popularity.

So does the fact that I no longer own a physical copy of it (and there's only the one 10" test-pressing) remove my right to play it?

I don't think so. In my opinion I probably have a better claim than the guy who currently owns my old original copy. As it happens, I'm not even a great fan of the record and probably wouldn't choose to play it anyway, but I guess the point I'm making boils down to: does the physical ownership of an original vinyl record bestow exclusive rights to whether someone can play a record or not?

Supposing a complete twat with tons of money ended up owning it. Would he be the only guy in the world who had the moral right to play it?

The problem is that there's so many inherent holes in the rules re OVO these days that it's a real minefield. I'm good mates with some serious 78rpm jump Blues collectors who believe it's absolute heresy to play anything other than an original 78 and they're very scathing about the 'pretenders to the throne' who aren't so bothered about original 78's. But, with the best will in the world, a get together with a few of them and their undoubtably incredible collections leaves me cold compared to the 'pretenders to the throne' who are packing out clubs in the West End with packed atmospheric clubs and a young lively audience who absolutely LOVE the music and really don't give a flying f*ck about whether it's a 78 or not. This is the real dilemma here.

Food for thought if nothing else.

And just in case anyone's thinking that I've totally gone to the dark side, I haven't. I bought 2 beautiful records this week which I've been after for years and I feel priviledged to own 'em. Weird ay?

Ian D

Edited July 23, 2011 by Ian Dewhirst

[Guest soul over easy]

its only the same with other collecting or hobby groups..ive collected a fair bit of diverse stuff, from Northern, military, vintage vehicles, vintage clothing etc..and there are always the purist, take it too far types..with northern soul (and its offshoots ) most everyone has heard all the classics, whether played on the original or not..so its hard to impress as it was in the old days, when if you managed to aquire a copy of anything that hadn't been pressed, it was special.I would rather a dj play underplayed/largely forgotten/never really made sides than familiar classics on ovo!! wow that looks weird! but thereis a veritable army of chin rubbers who get excited over mines a demo, or first matrix, or upside down or reversed matrix..who gives a f***. Its not the same anymore and never will be...

if collectors want to collect ovo then fair play its like an hobby to them, and if some of them are also dj,s they can play them in there sets,but ive said before first and formost a dj is paid to entertain the punters ,so if hes not got a copy of an ovo but as a copy of a re-issue or pressing its his job to play it for the dance floor ,,,because 99.9 dancers dont give a toss about ovo they want to have a good time.Also the dj is there to please the floor not himself? ...if youre a collector then good luck in youre quest.

[Shaun W]

if collectors want to collect ovo then fair play its like an hobby to them, and if some of them are also dj,s they can play them in there sets,but ive said before first and formost a dj is paid to entertain the punters ,so if hes not got a copy of an ovo but as a copy of a re-issue or pressing its his job to play it for the dance floor ,,,because 99.9 dancers dont give a toss about ovo they want to have a good time.Also the dj is there to please the floor not himself? ...if youre a collector then good luck in youre quest.

I agree that a DJ's job is top entertain the punters and that quite rightly they should be entertaining the dance floor.

However, a typical 1 hour set will involve the DJ playing in the region of 15 to 20 records; if the DJ is really incapable of playing 20 OVO sounds that will be entertaining and interesting to a crowd then perhaps they shouldn't be DJing in the first place.

All too often we hear the excuse that bootlegs are played to please the dance floor or that they were requests, well if that's really the case then DJ's should be playing CD's where the tracks haved been officially licensed rather than illegal bootlegs. My personal view is that playing bootlegs demonstrates a real lack of imagination and creativity of the part of the DJ.

I'm sure that there are many dancers who don't care about bootlegs being played, just as I'm equally sure that there are many people who buy and wear fake watches who don't care about the children working in the third world sweat shops that make them. How many soul night attendees would tollerate their local working men's club selling them fake Vodka and using the excuse " Well it's ok it tastes the same so what's the problem" ?.

Not caring does not make it right.

[Guest Brett F]

OK, you've touched on an interesting point here Steve.

It's interesting that I would have absolutely 100% agreed with your sentiments when I was happily locked into collecting rare Soul full time,

predominently throughout the first half of the 1970's. Anybody who elected to play bootlegs throughout that period was basically lame and lacked imagination in my eyes and I still believe that's true some 36 years later. Bootlegs have always been an easy way out for pretenders and I don't think my position has really changed ever since.

So, in 1976, after 5 wonderful years of deejaying at the height of the scene back then, I decided to move on, partly because I felt that values were becoming distorted and mainly because I was ready to explore other areas. In fact, to finance the move, I sold my key Northern collection and moved to the U.S. and effectively switched from being a collector to a dealer. So, as any professional dealer will probably confirm, once you make that particular switch, you tend to lose a degree of personal emotional connection to records and look at the whole thing with a different perspective and certainly more objectivity. Which meant that, as a key example, when I found the second known copy of "The Duck"/"Love Runs Out" - Willie Hutch (other than Soussan's), it got my heart pumping because it was a killer mystery solved and a great find, but not a record that I would be destined to personally own because it was more use to someone else other than me. In other words, my priorities had changed. The record would have been wasted on my shelves because, great as it was, it would only have been a vanity item for me by then, alongside many others. Effectively, I was no longer a serious long-term collector but merely a part-time curator, which actually suited me fine. And still does. I would rather pass my records on to people who can use them much more effectively than me, get some proper value out of them and spread them to a wider audience. It's a philosophy which has always served me well. I like the idea that records from my collection have generally always gone to the right people, managed to reach the right audience and eventually realised their true potential. It's lovely to be a key part of the chain rather than the record being one of many thousands on a shelf going nowhere fast.

So I've always seen personal ownership of a physical record as being a somewhat transitory thing. If I'd have kept the first known copy of Si Hightower forever it may have earned me some browny points amongst a few serious collectors but it would have been a waste of a great record in the grand scheme of things. That's why it eventually went to Colin Dilnot because he was the right guy for that record at that time. The right decision as it turned out.

But here lies the rub in my eyes. I found the record in the first place, nurtured it and spread it to the right people for a few years and then eventually passed it on to the right person thus ensuring it's longevity and eventual popularity.

So does the fact that I no longer own a physical copy of it (and there's only the one 10" test-pressing) remove my right to play it?

I don't think so. In my opinion I probably have a better claim than the guy who currently owns my old original copy. As it happens, I'm not even a great fan of the record and probably wouldn't choose to play it anyway, but I guess the point I'm making boils down to: does the physical ownership of an original vinyl record bestow exclusive rights to whether someone can play a record or not?

Supposing a complete twat with tons of money ended up owning it. Would he be the only guy in the world who had the moral right to play it?

The problem is that there's so many inherent holes in the rules re OVO these days that it's a real minefield. I'm good mates with some serious 78rpm jump Blues collectors who believe it's absolute heresy to play anything other than an original 78 and they're very scathing about the 'pretenders to the throne' who aren't so bothered about original 78's. But, with the best will in the world, a get together with a few of them and their undoubtably incredible collections leaves me cold compared to the 'pretenders to the throne' who are packing out clubs in the West End with packed atmospheric clubs and a young lively audience who absolutely LOVE the music and really don't give a flying f*ck about whether it's a 78 or not. This is the real dilemma here.

Food for thought if nothing else.

And just in case anyone's thinking that I've totally gone to the dark side, I haven't. I bought 2 beautiful records this week which I've been after for years and I feel priviledged to own 'em. Weird ay?

Ian D

In my eyes Ian yes it does, if i sell you my house would you mind if i still kept a key..........................

Long time since we had a chat Mr Curator.

[Philt]

Someone asked "who cares"? Me, lots as it goes.

Yet to hear even one remotely coherent argument that legitimises playing bootlegs to paying punters. I'm tired of getting soaked p*ssing into this here head wind though. If you just don't get it you never, ever will Better things to be doing ... like saving up for that next shite, boring 'rare' record.

[paultp]

if collectors want to collect ovo then fair play its like an hobby to them, and if some of them are also dj,s they can play them in there sets,but ive said before first and formost a dj is paid to entertain the punters ,so if hes not got a copy of an ovo but as a copy of a re-issue or pressing its his job to play it for the dance floor ,,,because 99.9 dancers dont give a toss about ovo they want to have a good time.Also the dj is there to please the floor not himself? ...if youre a collector then good luck in youre quest.

I don't agree with you on this. I do agree that at some venues the DJ is paid to play whatever the punters want to hear and that sort of makes them a bit of a Northern Soul Jukebox. But at other venues the DJ is booked because he/she plays the sort of sounds the promoter has decided his/her night wants to play in order to attract a certain crowd. There's a difference.

I remember being told once that DJs were booked for a particular venue because what the promoters and attendees wanted from them was "a trip round their record collection". That's the sort of thing I would want too. When I helped run a club in London we generally booked people for the records they owned but we didn't know what they were going to play before their set. We wanted to be entertained but also surprised, educated, even amused by their sets. That's a bit different to just turning up with a box of popular sounds and when someone asks for Eddie Parker (or similar) playing it off a boot.

To be honest, for the sort of night where the DJ is expected to be able to play anything he is asked for that the punters want to hear regardless of format, he would be better off taking along a big box of CDs and playing from them, or a laptop full of good quality mp3s.

I'm not saying one thing is right and one thing is wrong - each to their own.

[Hammersoul]

I'm sure that there are many dancers who don't care about bootlegs being played, just as I'm equally sure that there are many people who buy and wear fake watches who don't care about the children working in the third world sweat shops that make them. How many soul night attendees would tollerate their local working men's club selling them fake Vodka and using the excuse " Well it's ok it tastes the same so what's the problem" ?.

Not caring does not make it right.

For me this puts this debate in a nutshell .

Trouble with todays society is everyone wants to get throu the backdoor without putting in hard work,patience and effort. Be it work related or musically.Sadly the rare soul scene is the same abeit only in a minority.Most people i know be it collectors or punters want the real deal(o.v.o).

I`ve got no problem if people wanna collect `pressing`, cds or re-issues but play em at home don`t pretend to be a dj.Yes in todays climate money is tight but you can still pick up good records that sound good out for under £50.Just gotta put the effort/time in .

[Ian Dewhirst]

In my eyes Ian yes it does, if i sell you my house would you mind if i still kept a key..........................

Long time since we had a chat Mr Curator.

Yep ages Brett. Hope yer well and all is good.

Good point about the house but it's not really the same as a record though. Or is it? I'm not even sure anymore LOL....

Right, I've got a day of record filing ahead of me. First time I've got round to it for a year or two and I've got to whittle the bastards down somehow. There's a rather intriguing pile of white label T.P.'s that need identifying so who knows what's in there. Onwards and upwards. All this talk has got me in the mood for some digging LOL....

Catch yer on the road at some point. Diane sends her regards.

Ian D

[kevinsoulman]

I played a pressing of Marv Johnson because my original was so f***ed up, does that count ? Forgive me father for I have sinned........

HAVE SEEN THIS MENTIONED SOMEWHERE ON HERE BEFORE AND THE ANSWER WAS AS LONG AS YOU HAVE THE ORIGINAL SAT ALONG SIDE THE DECKS.

I LOVE COLLECTING AND SELLING THE CHEAP END OF THE SOUNDS.

BUT EVERY NOW AND THEN I GRAB AN ORIGINAL PROBABLY IN VG TO REPLACE A BOOT IN EX AND TO BE HONEST GET AS MUCH FOR THE BOOT SOMETIMES.

A MATE OF MINE WHOS BEEN ON THE SCENE FOR EVER SAYS A COMPUTER WITH ALL THE SOUNDS ON IS THE ANSWER ALL REQUESTS DEALT WITH,I TOLD HIM THATS OK AS LONG AS THE DJ PUTS THE SET TOGETHER PROPERLY ITS WHATS IN THE MIX THAT COUNTS

KEV

PS A LOT OF THIS IS OFF TOPIC AND PROBABLY SHOULD BE SPLIT

[Ian Dewhirst]

To be honest, for the sort of night where the DJ is expected to be able to play anything he is asked for that the punters want to hear regardless of format, he would be better off taking along a big box of CDs and playing from them, or a laptop full of good quality mp3s.

I'm not saying one thing is right and one thing is wrong - each to their own.

Of course, with vinyl you are limited to the physical amount you can carry which is usually limited to a few hundred records which you have to pre-choose before you hit the road. A computer however gives you access to your whole collection. There's many a time when I've cursed because a particular record would have fitted the mood perfectly but I didn't have it with me. Or other times when I wished I had something that I'd never played before with me but then the moment goes and it may never happen again. So having 20K tracks with you does give you an incredible amount of choice rather than the limitations of working with whatever you can carry.

When people look back at this time in the future they'll think it was quaint that people actually carried mini collections with them. Of course, by that point, every record that's ever been made made will be stored in the cloud, thus making everything accessible to everybody anywhere in the world at any time via their phone or i-pod. Scary ay? The only thing which will seperate the men from the boys at that point will be knowledge!

Ian D

[Russ Vickers]

Bob - I think you contribute fantastically on SS & your radio show is the tops, you obviously also have great knowledge & taste.......but when it comes to the finer etiquette details of the NS scene it must seem quite confusing when reading SS.........reissues/bootlegs/carvers/counterfeits ok for home use & local soul nights, but at the authentic nights tunes should be played from the original format, for many, many years this was just how it was & really most took it for granted, unfortunately in relatively recent times some have decided to do thier own thing to DJ at any cost to the morale code, to justify this they then think of all manner of excuses to justify themselves, the old chestnet ' The dancers dont care' always makes me smile, as its more a matter of personal pride.......shouldnt even have to be discussed.

Best Russ

[Godzilla]

Bob - I think you contribute fantastically on SS & your radio show is the tops, you obviously also have great knowledge & taste.......but when it comes to the finer etiquette details of the NS scene it must seem quite confusing when reading SS.........reissues/bootlegs/carvers/counterfeits ok for home use & local soul nights, but at the authentic nights tunes should be played from the original format, for many, many years this was just how it was & really most took it for granted, unfortunately in relatively recent times some have decided to do thier own thing to DJ at any cost to the morale code, to justify this they then think of all manner of excuses to justify themselves, the old chestnet ' The dancers dont care' always makes me smile, as its more a matter of personal pride.......shouldnt even have to be discussed.

Best Russ

Hey Russ, don't you think the way you're addressing Bob might be a bit patronising? (that's when you talk down to people in a condescending manner...)

[Tony A]

Of course, with vinyl you are limited to the physical amount you can carry which is usually limited to a few hundred records which you have to pre-choose before you hit the road. A computer however gives you access to your whole collection. There's many a time when I've cursed because a particular record would have fitted the mood perfectly but I didn't have it with me. Or other times when I wished I had something that I'd never played before with me but then the moment goes and it may never happen again. So having 20K tracks with you does give you an incredible amount of choice rather than the limitations of working with whatever you can carry.

When people look back at this time in the future they'll think it was quaint that people actually carried mini collections with them. Of course, by that point, every record that's ever been made made will be stored in the cloud, thus making everything accessible to everybody anywhere in the world at any time via their phone or i-pod. Scary ay? The only thing which will seperate the men from the boys at that point will be knowledge!

Ian D

Always been the case, Good point Ian.

[Jez Jones]

...these waters can be 'muddied' even further. Numerous times we hear 'the dancers dont care'-----thats a tad harsh to generalise. I know I'm going somewhere tonight where the dancers DO care and probably most rare soul ovo events are populated with dancers who are VERY knowledgeable and do care.

...So we may the ovo dancers and the bootleg dancers lol. doesn't get any easier does it hehehehhe

[Winnie :-)]

Clearly the majority of people don't care or this, and other threads would be inundated with counter arguments, from a completely different perspective. Neither side is ever going to convince the other, although one side will continue to try, whilst the other will just carry on enjoying the music and the scene in general, taking from it what they want.

Winnie

[Steve G]

Not going to carry on wasting my life debating this with folk that don't care. None of the bootleg DJs has answered why can't they be honest with themselves and play off a lap top if no one really cares on the format of the music at their venues? Truth is, apart from Brian who does this, and is honest about it, they haven't really got the balls to carry it off. So instead they try and pretend they are playing "proper records". Fake Elvis's - always have been, always will be in my mind.... Ian - where is your Sy Hightower now then? as if you didn't know......Still gets a full floor at x-over and 70s venues....but you should be aware two of the three best tracks were out put a few years ago by Hayley so you can re-own those tracks for a tenner - and that's where the knowledge comes in. I am sure, mixing in those exhalted London music circles that you do, you can find a "rich twat with too much money" who would want to buy it You could even make a living earning a commission on the deal, like you did with James Rubble !! .Let us know when you have found someone "suited" for it please. ATB Steve

Edited July 23, 2011 by Steve G

[Mike Lofthouse]

So does the fact that I no longer own a physical copy of it (and there's only the one 10" test-pressing) remove my right to play it?

I don't think so. In my opinion I probably have a better claim than the guy who currently owns my old original copy. As it happens, I'm not even a great fan of the record and probably wouldn't choose to play it anyway, but I guess the point I'm making boils down to: does the physical ownership of an original vinyl record bestow exclusive rights to whether someone can play a record or not?

Supposing a complete twat with tons of money ended up owning it. Would he be the only guy in the world who had the moral right to play it?

Ian D

whoops Steve beat me to it!!!

Edited July 23, 2011 by Mike Lofthouse

[Guest]

I love how the worst thing you can say to someone on soul source is "your box is full of pressings". It's somehow ten times worse than insulting someone's mother. I can't believe I just read a thread that was like "you have pressings!" "NO YOU have pressings!"

Also, in Chicago, there is a new Cirque du Soleil show called "ovo" with billboards and TV ads. I laugh and think of soul source every time I see it.

Can anyone remember the tv add that asked people to tell the different between butter & margarine wearing a blindfold "need I say more!"

yes I do

it would be good if the huge amounts of cash paid for vinyl got back to the music Industry in detroit ect ect, are better still to the artistes who filled our harts with a spectrum of emotions got feet dancing gave every one on the scene a brotherhood & sisterhood of soul music that will be aways with us

Nigel KTF

Edited July 23, 2011 by TWISTED STEEL

[jocko]

If i could put the b-side of Eugene Gaspard on this I would, its called on and on!!!

Love it, probably the nicest debate, and first on here for ages about this with Mr Franklin realising, unlike I ever do, that the softly softly approach sometimes works best and a few killer words, along with Mr G's say it all.

I sorta agree with Winnie now, except I see no relation between the two completely differing views, they are completely differing scenes, differing values etc etc. It is a case of you either get it or you don't for me.

My previous gripe was that one would destroy the other, however not looking like that, in all honesty looking from afar these days it looks more likely the multitude of nights is still the problem for both.

And glad to see Mr D sometimes, gets it, then doesn't, then does...... just need to get this book written Iain and then you will remember why so many people still get it, and it will make you a a few bob on the side, as I suspect many of us will buy it right away.

Funniest bit, however is Matt, Phil etc.. having a go at Bob A who probably gets the OVO thing massively more than any of us, but he gets it for differing reasons and for arguably far more valid reasons than us. Sorry guys you are definitiely shooting out of the pomposity pistol (best quote ever on here, if sadly misguided in its original use) here. Of course what we do is f***ing wierd crazy and frankly ridiculous, thats partly why we love it, lets not kid ourselves. So lets not get precious about it, to those of us serious about it its everything, but to everyone else, as someone said about their wife, its bordering on insanity. But's it our insanity, and its a marvelous insanity......

Anyway wasn't going to say anything on this, just wanted to share a picture I seen in a very prominent place in London last week, I off course followed the arrow around the corner, where there was similar arrow pointing back the way, I spent a couple of hours walking between the arrows just in case there was a hidden doorway, there wasn't. The potential find gave me a much bigger hard on than any find probably would, is that insane or perfectly normal.......

Edited July 23, 2011 by jocko

[Mike Lofthouse]

My favourite venues are all OVO - use to be the Orwell now Just Soul - so with Tats and Sean it goes without saying, however, I only want to hear OVO if it is actually a good record and fits in with the set and the ethos (don't like that word but it does describe it well) of the night and not just played to show that the DJ has it/payed a lot of money for it. And certainly not so the DJ can then publish his playlist the following day so he can show how many expensive items he has and has played!

Do you know over the past 10 years I've head some of the big ticket items played out more than 'You've Been Cheatin'' - I was a local do last Saturday and it came on - not sure if was ABC, HMV or Stateside but it sounded great!

Mike

[Ian Dewhirst]

The potential find gave me a much bigger hard on than any find probably would, is that insane or perfectly normal.......

Perfectly normal for a vinyl fetishist Jocko, since the mere thought of OVO opens the brain receptors which cause the blood surge to your genital area. Out of curiosity though, roughly how long did the hard on last?

Ian D

[Dave Moore]

So does the fact that I no longer own a physical copy of it (and there's only the one 10" test-pressing) remove my right to play it?

Ian D

Yes, 100% yes. Otherwise some of these "DJs" would use the same $1000 to buy and sell a whole slew of records in a revolving fashion and make the same claim. (IN fact a few already do!),

Regards,

Dave

[Ian Dewhirst]

Ian - where is your Sy Hightower now then? as if you didn't know......Still gets a full floor at x-over and 70s venues....but you should be aware two of the three best tracks were out put a few years ago by Hayley so you can re-own those tracks for a tenner - and that's where the knowledge comes in. I am sure, mixing in those exhalted London music circles that you do, you can find a "rich twat with too much money" who would want to buy it You could even make a living earning a commission on the deal, like you did with James Rubble !! .Let us know when you have found someone "suited" for it please. ATB Steve

Aaagh! Do you have it now then Steve? I actually thought Rod Dearlove still had it. I honestly don't know who owns it, so I wasn't casting any aspertions to your own good character mate. Glad it's ended up with the right owner. If I had my way I'd hope most records ended up with you to be honest 'cos I know you care about 'em and will keep 'em in the style to which they've accustomed!

And the high jinks with JT and Boba effectively ended my career as a record broker at that point I have to say. Wasn't a pleasant time and caused me quite a few headaches and I actually didn't earn much out of it 'cos we all know what a tight sod Browny is LOL. I did however, broker the sale of around 20K worth of tunes which all went to grateful buyers, so it wasn't a total nightmare.

Now, when can we get those private tours of your shed going?

Ian D

[Ian Dewhirst]

Yes, 100% yes. Otherwise some of these "DJs" would use the same $1000 to buy and sell a whole slew of records in a revolving fashion and make the same claim. (IN fact a few already do!),

Regards,

Dave

Bugger! I'm gonna have to start serious collecting again. I don't suppose I could buy it back for what I sold it for could I?

Ian D

[Modernsoulsucks]

I think it's one thing to care about OVO [for reasons relating to progression] and another to adopt an evangelical attitude about it where fire and brimstone are poured on the supposedly opposite camp. I don't believe there is a "f**k OVO" faction but there are those who get understandably defensive if they are constantly held up as the enemy within.

ROD

[barney]

I think it's one thing to care about OVO [for reasons relating to progression] and another to adopt an evangelical attitude about it where fire and brimstone are poured on the supposedly opposite camp. I don't believe there is a "f**k OVO" faction but there are those who get understandably defensive if they are constantly held up as the enemy within.

ROD

agree with this rod

there are a plethora of well run , well attended local soul nights and would say that boots/pressings /carvers are regularly played out

but you dont get many punters coming on here moaning about it,

its a dj/collector topic

as said all I want to do is go out and enjoy , end of : )

[Chalky]

if collectors want to collect ovo then fair play its like an hobby to them, and if some of them are also dj,s they can play them in there sets,but ive said before first and formost a dj is paid to entertain the punters ,so if hes not got a copy of an ovo but as a copy of a re-issue or pressing its his job to play it for the dance floor ,,,because 99.9 dancers dont give a toss about ovo they want to have a good time.Also the dj is there to please the floor not himself? ...if youre a collector then good luck in youre quest.

There are plenty of DJ's who can entertain and do a more than competent job without resorting to pressings? So why book someone with a box of pressings and pay them the same rate you would for someone who has the real deal? If you ain't got the records stick to dancing and enjoying the night, let those who do have the records do the entertaining. If you haven't got a copy of something then play something else, 100's of quality records out there and the scene would be a lot healthier for it instead of the sheep mentality we have of DJ's now.

And I don't know many if any DJ's who get behind the decks and entertain themselves and no one else, I don't know a DJ worst his salt who goes up there and is happy to clear the floor. Often it is the fault of the promoter booking a much talked about DJ whose set isn't right for the punters that frequent said event.

And if it is true that 99.9% of dancers don't give a toss (which isn't true either cause I know many dancers who do give a toss) then why waste money on booking a DJ, buying boots? Just stick a cd in or use a laptop

But at the end of the day, most of those who go out and about, know what promoters do what, what DJ's play what so if it doesn't fit in with ones morals/ethics then they can avoid such promoters and Dj's.

[Guest Bearsy]

There are plenty of DJ's who can entertain and do a more than competent job without resorting to pressings? So why book someone with a box of pressings and pay them the same rate you would for someone who has the real deal? If you ain't got the records stick to dancing and enjoying the night, let those who do have the records do the entertaining. If you haven't got a copy of something then play something else, 100's of quality records out there and the scene would be a lot healthier for it instead of the sheep mentality we have of DJ's now.

And I don't know many if any DJ's who get behind the decks and entertain themselves and no one else, I don't know a DJ worst his salt who goes up there and is happy to clear the floor. Often it is the fault of the promoter booking a much talked about DJ whose set isn't right for the punters that frequent said event.

And if it is true that 99.9% of dancers don't give a toss (which isn't true either cause I know many dancers who do give a toss) then why waste money on booking a DJ, buying boots? Just stick a cd in or use a laptop

But at the end of the day, most of those who go out and about, know what promoters do what, what DJ's play what so if it doesn't fit in with ones morals/ethics then they can avoid such promoters and Dj's.

here here

[KevH]

if collectors want to collect ovo then fair play its like an hobby to them, and if some of them are also dj,s they can play them in there sets,but ive said before first and formost a dj is paid to entertain the punters ,so if hes not got a copy of an ovo but as a copy of a re-issue or pressing its his job to play it for the dance floor ,,,because 99.9 dancers dont give a toss about ovo they want to have a good time.Also the dj is there to please the floor not himself? ...if youre a collector then good luck in youre quest.

Just shows how far off the mark you are.A lot of places out in the soul world,have punters/dancers..call em what you like,who are very knowlegdeable,and do give a toss.

Pay your money on the door.Do you expect the real deal,or fake night?...Maybe OVO night should be charging more.

[NEV]

In essence Kev ,Steve,Brett ,Wayne and the rest of us on here who follow the etiquette of O.V.O ..you have to remember one thing and one thing only .

We are into RARE SOUL ....the peeps who keep arguing the toss against ,are basically nostalgic "NORTHERN SOUL" followers.

The people who believe Wigan Casino holds the answers to everything that was precious in their lives ...

You have to remember back in the day ...most people were into a scene and not soul.

Getting on a bus /car and going to a underground nighter ,getting off your t*ts and dancing like a maniac whilst most of your mates were at home fast asleep totally oblivious to it all.

It was happening there and then and you were right smack in the thick of it

Sadly for a lot of people ..going out to a "Northern soul " night is a way of trying to relive that past ..a way of clinging onto the memory which was probably the best times of their lives.

And sadly for most of em ...they never bought a record ..probably didnt even know who sang it ,what it was called ..but as soon as you hear it ..they sure as hell know how to dance to it eh

The same people who shun anything new ,for fear it will erase the memory..

So please stop banging your head against a wall ...it really will not change the fact ..we exist in the same world ,but actually are not part of the same scene anymore

Some of us have moved on ..or dare i say, followed on in the tradition of how it actually was when we first got into it...embracing something new that was'nt mainstream and eagerly awaiting the dj's next big cover up .

Your either into soul or your into a scene ...

[Cunnie]

In essence Kev ,Steve,Brett ,Wayne and the rest of us on here who follow the etiquette of O.V.O ..you have to remember one thing and one thing only .

We are into RARE SOUL ....the peeps who keep arguing the toss against ,are basically nostalgic "NORTHERN SOUL" followers.

The people who believe Wigan Casino holds the answers to everything that was precious in their lives ...

You have to remember back in the day ...most people were into a scene and not soul.

Getting on a bus /car and going to a underground nighter ,getting off your t*ts and dancing like a maniac whilst most of your mates were at home fast asleep totally oblivious to it all.

It was happening there and then and you were right smack in the thick of it

Sadly for a lot of people ..going out to a "Northern soul " night is a way of trying to relive that past ..a way of clinging onto the memory which was probably the best times of their lives.

And sadly for most of em ...they never bought a record ..probably didnt even know who sang it ,what it was called ..but as soon as you hear it ..they sure as hell know how to dance to it eh

The same people who shun anything new ,for fear it will erase the memory..

So please stop banging your head against a wall ...it really will not change the fact ..we exist in the same world ,but actually are not part of the same scene anymore

Some of us have moved on ..or dare i say, followed on in the tradition of how it actually was when we first got into it...embracing something new that was'nt mainstream and eagerly awaiting the dj's next big cover up .

Your either into soul or your into a scene ...

Nail, head, hit Nev

Would slightly move the goalposts in my case though as I also collect some stuff of a more Modern variety so I buy original format only & yes that does include downloads too. Least I know when I buy a record, cd or even an mp3 a slice of the money goes where it belongs, to the artist.

[Steve G]

Aaagh! Do you have it now then Steve? I actually thought Rod Dearlove still had it. I honestly don't know who owns it, so I wasn't casting any aspertions to your own good character mate. Glad it's ended up with the right owner. If I had my way I'd hope most records ended up with you to be honest 'cos I know you care about 'em and will keep 'em in the style to which they've accustomed!

And the high jinks with JT and Boba effectively ended my career as a record broker at that point I have to say. Wasn't a pleasant time and caused me quite a few headaches and I actually didn't earn much out of it 'cos we all know what a tight sod Browny is LOL.

Ian D

I've had it for years, probably 10 years now, and it is a 12" test pressing by the way, like one side of an album except the same six tracks are on both sides ( would love to hear the other side!!).

Those that are trying to draw a parallel to modern soul not being hung up on originals, also don't get it - it's a completely different scene, mucho stuff only available on download or CD etc. so there is no "vinyl thang" unless it's a Joey Negro or DJ Meme 12" remix And the real modern scene has never had a focus on rare records anyway.

Anyway glad we've all ended up agreeing - two scenes as we've all said. Now where's there a rare soul night?

[Guest aintgotit]

the comment someone made about people coming up to look at the vinyl being played may be because they have the opportunity to look , not because their suspicious . i,ve never seen a copy of the brooks brothers while its being played, so at a small venue recently, i just had to have a glimpse as part of the stage overlooked the decks. nothing more than that. antone thinkin im questioning their veracity should wind that brass neck of their own right back in.!

[Ian Dewhirst]

I've had it for years, probably 10 years now, and it is a 12" test pressing by the way, like one side of an album except the same six tracks are on both sides ( would love to hear the other side!!).

Weird. I could have sworn it was a single-sided 10" test-pressing. It's got the Monarch printed label on it right? Mind you, the last time I saw it was circa '78 or thereabouts.........

Ian D

[Ian Dewhirst]

Your either into soul or your into a scene ...

Surely you can be into both can't you Nev?

Ian D

[KevH]

Surely you can be into both can't you Nev?

Ian D

Oh no its starting up again.................

[Guest markoneill]

Well this is interesting. As someone who has been away from " the scene " for 20 odd years and just starting collecting again it is a minefield out there from my view. Prices are sky high and the music has had more finds than the archilogical society of which at this time I am trying to get some insight into.

I have only been to a couple of events and lots of the music played these days I have never even heard ( some nice stuff as well ). As for the DJ side of things I would at some point like to do a couple of spots locally for the love of spinning what origionals I can afford at the time with maybe some copies of some that cost £100's at this time, does that make it wrong? I am spending lots of money on records at the minute and lots of the music I know and love from the days of my travels around the scene in the mid 70's to early 80's. Am I buying records at £20 - £100 or rubbish you tell me!!.

I reckon it will probably take me 5 years to get a decent collection together with the prices these days and I want to own the majority of origionals.

As I said at the begining it is an interesting topic especially from someone just coming back into the scene.

[Steve L]

The purpose of my post was not to start a debate. People need to stop taking themselves so seriously. I collect "original vinyl" but I realize it's not a life or death thing.

Some people think playing original vinyl is a matter of life and death, its much more important than that

(to quote a famous quote - non brits may not get this!)

[Godzilla]

Well this is interesting. As someone who has been away from " the scene " for 20 odd years and just starting collecting again it is a minefield out there from my view. Prices are sky high and the music has had more finds than the archilogical society of which at this time I am trying to get some insight into.

I have only been to a couple of events and lots of the music played these days I have never even heard ( some nice stuff as well ). As for the DJ side of things I would at some point like to do a couple of spots locally for the love of spinning what origionals I can afford at the time with maybe some copies of some that cost £100's at this time, does that make it wrong? I am spending lots of money on records at the minute and lots of the music I know and love from the days of my travels around the scene in the mid 70's to early 80's. Am I buying records at £20 - £100 or rubbish you tell me!!.

I reckon it will probably take me 5 years to get a decent collection together with the prices these days and I want to own the majority of origionals.

As I said at the begining it is an interesting topic especially from someone just coming back into the scene.

Your posts reads as though you want to be a DJ and that's why you've started collecting again. At least you seem to be honest about it.

Don't you like any other kind of music though? There's cheaper genres to collect if it's all about playing them out.