Can Anyone Tell Me Why?

[Guest Mrs Williams]

There has been something bugging me with the Soul scene for a while now......................so can anyone please tell me why????

I love my 30s Jazz, 40s Swing & Western Swing, 50s Rockabilly & 60s Soul...............I enjoy weekends out at 40s, 50s & Soul nights, but the only place that is bugging me at the moment, is the Soul night's.................when i have been to Soul night's i have heard folk saying, "that dj is a load of rubbish, i don't know how he get's a dj spot" & it really seems like that they have not enjoyed the evening, but when i read the lookback's review the following day, they say, "the dj is a top bloke & played a cracking set & it was the best night ever..........in my opinion, it does seem a bit two faced............i just don't get it!

When i have been at a 40s or Rockabilly night, if you don't like what the dj is playing, you go up & tell him to his face & they are quite understanding & encourage constructive criticism, take it on board & try to improve the evening. When my partner tried the same approach at a Soul night, he was threatened with a kicking..............just a few weeks ago, a friend was given a bit of a hard time for just saying that he did not enjoy a Soul night that he had been to..................the mind boggles!

Debbie x

Edited July 18, 2011 by Debbie Dee

[Guest bish]

yea ive been in that situation a few times some dj's play a so called crap spot and they do, people know they have but then get on here and make out there god cus some people have to.

[Guest Mrs Williams]

yea ive been in that situation a few times some dj's play a so called crap spot and they do, people know they have but then get on here and make out there god cus some people have to.

I don't know why they have to?.......................but It does make me feel like i can't trust some folk..................if they can't be honest about a night out, could they also be saying thing's behind your back too?

Debbie x

[Patto]

Been like that forever Debbie always get people kissing backsides of top DJs and putting slants on nights for political reasons.Thats why its good to see playlists so you can see what the DJ played and make up your own mind.But as you know i'm sure eventually you get to follow your fave DJs and fave venues cause you no what your gonna get

[Guest Matt Male]

When i have been at a 40s or Rockabilly night, if you don't like what the dj is playing, you go up & tell him to his face & they are quite understanding & encourage constructive criticism, take it on board & try to improve the evening. When my partner tried the same approach at a Soul night, he was threatened with a kicking..............just a few weeks ago, a friend was given a bit of a hard time for just saying that he did not enjoy a Soul night that he had been to..................the mind boggles!

Debbie x

At a soul night or nighter you should have a word with the promoter in my opinion not the DJ.

Promoters should know the DJs they book and if they aren't right for their night that's the promoter's fault, not the DJ's. The last thing anyone wants is somebody coming up hassling them about their set. If it's a real problem it should be the promoter who has a quiet word.

[KevH]

There has been something bugging me with the Soul scene for a while now......................so can anyone please tell me why????

I love my 30s Jazz, 40s Swing & Western Swing, 50s Rockabilly & 60s Soul...............I enjoy weekends out at 40s, 50s & Soul nights, but the only place that is bugging me at the moment, is the Soul night's.................when i have been to Soul night's i have heard folk saying, "that dj is a load of rubbish, i don't know how he get's a dj spot" & it really seems like that they have not enjoyed the evening, but when i read the lookback's review the following day, they say, "the dj is a top bloke & played a cracking set & it was the best night ever..........in my opinion, it does seem a bit two faced............i just don't get it!

When i have been at a 40s or Rockabilly night, if you don't like what the dj is playing, you go up & tell him to his face & they are quite understanding & encourage constructive criticism, take it on board & try to improve the evening. When my partner tried the same approach at a Soul night, he was threatened with a kicking..............just a few weeks ago, a friend was given a bit of a hard time for just saying that he did not enjoy a Soul night that he had been to..................the mind boggles!

Debbie x

In which area of the country does this happen?.Your partner "threatened at a soul night "- maybe he struck a sore point."Hard time for saying didn't enjoy a soul night" - bit of a theme here.

[Dave Moore]

I used to travel from Europe to UK gigs on the strength of some lookbacks. Soon learned that it's a waste of time. Often been to a niter that's cost me best part of 400quid to get to and been in my hotel room at 3am! Lessons learned and all that!

Playlists only influence now, not SS lookbacks. If no playlists available then I simply don't go.

Heard a great definition of "Rare And Underplayed" by a well respected collector at one gig I was at, "All the stuff we chucked in the shyte pile while digging out the good stuff!"

Regards,

Dave

[Guest]

At a soul night or nighter you should have a word with the promoter in my opinion not the DJ.

Promoters should know the DJs they book and if they aren't right for their night that's the promoter's fault, not the DJ's. The last thing anyone wants is somebody coming up hassling them about their set. If it's a real problem it should be the promoter who has a quiet word.

Think that's the correct and sensible approach, promoters set the music policy and should then book DJs who they know can deliver what's promised on the flyer.

But I would also say that I don't think the majority of promoters would take it on board as constructive criticism but would more likely react badly, lots of promoters get very emotionally tied in to the events they run and it's difficult not to react emotionally in that situation....especially on the night itself. I'd also agree that some lookbacks for events I have been to do seem to be talking about a different night than the one I had attended, but we all have varying tastes and what I consider to be a good night is someones elses worst nightmare.

I used to travel from Europe to UK gigs on the strength of some lookbacks. Soon learned that it's a waste of time. Often been to a niter that's cost me best part of 400quid to get to and been in my hotel room at 3am! Lessons learned and all that!

Playlists only influence now, not SS lookbacks. If no playlists available then I simply don't go.

Heard a great definition of "Rare And Underplayed" by a well respected collector at one gig I was at, "All the stuff we chucked in the shyte pile while digging out the good stuff!"

Regards,

Dave

How's that relevant? Don't understand the constant putting down of rare/underplayed nights, there's quite a few of them around and to make such generalised statements is a real kick in the stomach for the ones that are producing great, varied nights and are enjoyed by those that attend. Are all oldies night shite....no, of course they're not. Some are brilliant, some are crap and it's the same for rare nights.

[Dave Moore]

How's that relevant? Don't understand the constant putting down of rare/underplayed nights, there's quite a few of them around and to make such generalised statements is a real kick in the stomach for the ones that are producing great, varied nights and are enjoyed by those that attend. Are all oldies night shite....no, of course they're not. Some are brilliant, some are crap and it's the same for rare nights.

I don't kow how you arrive at me constantly putting down ANY nights? If other people have a great time at these gigs then more power to their elbows. I'm glad they do, honestly. But me, I've spent too much time, effort and money travelling 1000s of miles only to be disappointed. After 35 years of listening, collecting, buying, selling, trading this music I'll trust my own ears now and not some posts in lookbacks by the promoters Mates. That's really the only point I was making.

Regards,

Dave

[Little-stevie]

As said above promoters do get emotional and even constructive critics can come a cropper...

Lookbacks mean very little at times, sometimes its only the promoters/djs writing them , had the same experience at my own promotions, would be good to get lookbacks from others also...

Other times lookbacks can be quite informative and give a decent idea of whats on offer..

One problem there as always been for me is that a lot of what i call the really good folk with real heart and soul and not any malice in them are just soul lovers and punters only, the promoter can be a different beast and sometimes in my experience they are....

Not easy to really answer your question though as you don't tell us where you have had these experiences, some folk have an experience at certain local nights and have not been to other places, they then right a statement about the scene , as i have said before, the scene is not just at the bottom of the garden, if thats the as far as some folk like to go then no problem but with a sweeping answer you will get some sweeping statements that don't mean much at all...

[Winnie :-)]

Not easy to really answer your question though as you don't tell us where you have had these experiences, some folk have an experience at certain local nights and have not been to other places, they then right a statement about the scene , as i have said before, the scene is not just at the bottom of the garden, if thats the as far as some folk like to go then no problem but with a sweeping answer you will get some sweeping statements that don't mean much at all...

[Little-stevie]

You are indeed a true man of wisdom Winnie..

Not easy to give answers to so many questions for fear of upsetting the apple cart, such is life at times....

[Billywhizz]

Hi Debbie. Your passionate about everything that ticks in life and i admire you for that, don't worry about it you can't please everyone, i've been to venues where one dj plays a great set and my mate turns around and says 'thats rubbish'. For someone threatening your other half is well out of order. Enjoy what you are doing and hold your head high. Keep on keeping on.

Cheers Billy.

[Citizen P]

I used to travel from Europe to UK gigs on the strength of some lookbacks. Soon learned that it's a waste of time. Often been to a niter that's cost me best part of 400quid to get to and been in my hotel room at 3am! Lessons learned and all that!

Playlists only influence now, not SS lookbacks. If no playlists available then I simply don't go.

Regards,

Dave

Basically agree with that- viewing a sample of what's been played on the night helps to make up your mind whether it would be "your" sort of place or not.

As for being threatened----

Worryingly,

this not the first time this sort of thing has been mentioned in the last week or two.

ATB

Tony

Edited July 19, 2011 by tonyp

[Guest]

I don't kow how you arrive at me constantly putting down ANY nights? If other people have a great time at these gigs then more power to their elbows. I'm glad they do, honestly. But me, I've spent too much time, effort and money travelling 1000s of miles only to be disappointed. After 35 years of listening, collecting, buying, selling, trading this music I'll trust my own ears now and not some posts in lookbacks by the promoters Mates. That's really the only point I was making.

Regards,

Dave

Dave,

Sorry but I didn't mean to imply that you were constantly putting down nights and I know you put in a lot of travelling to get to any venue. However there seems to be a growing trend on here of comments like the one you made about the quality of stuff played at rare nights, 'rare=shyte' or 'rare=undanceable' etc. I simply didn't see why you felt the need to add that dig to your post as upto that point the thread was purely on the issue of feedbacks being misleading and the inability of most promoters/DJs to accept constructive criticism.

I've given up (mostly lol!) trying to change what I consider to be a misconception about the rare scene as the constant headache from smacking my head against this particular brick wall isn't worth the hassle anymore. Most of the people who know me are fully aware that my passion is for the upfront/rare side of the scene but I don't go around making generalised and negative comments about the oldies/mainstream events. Every event should be judged on it's individual strengths/weaknesses and not automatically categorised as 'rare, therefore crap' or 'oldies, same old rubbish prob played on boots' etc. Come to one of the Gloucester nighters if you are able.......the rare room upstairs might help you realise why rare does not always = shyte and if it doesn't then spend the night in the main room, which is one of the best 'oldies niter' around at the moment . Some playlists from the rare room at the last one have been posted here:

Adam.

[Geeselad]

Suprised no ones mentioned the dancefloor in this discussion, surely the most common determiner of how well a set has gone down is feet on the floor? rather than quantity of chins stroked. I kinow this over simplifies things, as first plays of many tunes seldom ellicit a positive dancefloor reaction. The dancefloor has to be the best overall guide to how well your set whent down, given that the spot was at a time where people would dance, ie, not too early.

[Dave Moore]

Dave,

Sorry but I didn't mean to imply that you were constantly putting down nights and I know you put in a lot of travelling to get to any venue. However there seems to be a growing trend on here of comments like the one you made about the quality of stuff played at rare nights, 'rare=shyte' or 'rare=undanceable' etc. I simply didn't see why you felt the need to add that dig to your post as upto that point the thread was purely on the issue of feedbacks being misleading and the inability of most promoters/DJs to accept constructive criticism.

I've given up (mostly lol!) trying to change what I consider to be a misconception about the rare scene as the constant headache from smacking my head against this particular brick wall isn't worth the hassle anymore. Most of the people who know me are fully aware that my passion is for the upfront/rare side of the scene but I don't go around making generalised and negative comments about the oldies/mainstream events. Every event should be judged on it's individual strengths/weaknesses and not automatically categorised as 'rare, therefore crap' or 'oldies, same old rubbish prob played on boots' etc. Come to one of the Gloucester nighters if you are able.......the rare room upstairs might help you realise why rare does not always = shyte and if it doesn't then spend the night in the main room, which is one of the best 'oldies niter' around at the moment . Some playlists from the rare room at the last one have been posted here:

Adam.

Hi Adam,

I'm in no camp as far as soul venues are concerned. I can have an equally good night at Burnley or at an oldies do. But I judge my music with two things only, my lug holes. They've been highly trained in the last 4 decades. I'm not really interested in categorizing all the different fragmented styles of soul now available at venues. I'm a Northern Soul fan, plain and simple. (And most of my mates are too). New, old, underplayed, rare, it's all the same to us. I'm too long in the tooth to be told that 'this is great', when in actual fact it's mediocre. Or, be told "this is great' only to realise I played it in a record shop in St Louis in 1983 and... it was crap then and it's crap now.

I don't subscribe to the funkier side of allniters or out and out Rnb (C/W), either. Sorry but that's my perogative. I feel most "DJs' who play this stuff would drop it in a heartbeat if they could find top quality traditional sounding N Soul.

I've been to Mike's gig in Gloucester. I've been to quite a few others too, of all descriptions and have to say that the "look-backs" don't usually reflect the kind of experience I've had at the venues. I think Dogstoat's posting above is just about where I am at the moment, it's not nice to slag off events that you've not enjoyed as other folk may well have enjoyed them. But if only the truth were posted by everyone about thier weekly sojourn into the world of Northern Soul there'd be more than a bloodbath ensue eh? Therefore most of us do as our parents taught us and say nowt. "If you can't say anything nice then don't say anything at all." has led to the mindset described by Dogstoat I reckon.

I wish you well with your gig and hopefully I'll get round to visiting at some stage.

Regards,

Dave

[Pete S]

Rnb (C/W)

Lost me here, what's R & B got to do with C/W if you're referring to Country & Western?

[Dave Moore]

Lost me here, what's R & B got to do with C/W if you're referring to Country & Western?

Pete,

Some of the RnB I've heard played sounds like C/W to me. I'm not decrying either genre of music per se. Just not for me at a Northern Soul gig is all. Seem to have strayed off topic a bit now...

Regards,

Dave

[Guest]

Hi Adam,

I'm in no camp as far as soul venues are concerned. I can have an equally good night at Burnley or at an oldies do. But I judge my music with two things only, my lug holes. They've been highly trained in the last 4 decades. I'm not really interested in categorizing all the different fragmented styles of soul now available at venues. I'm a Northern Soul fan, plain and simple. (And most of my mates are too). New, old, underplayed, rare, it's all the same to us. I'm too long in the tooth to be told that 'this is great', when in actual fact it's mediocre. Or, be told "this is great' only to realise I played it in a record shop in St Louis in 1983 and... it was crap then and it's crap now.

I don't subscribe to the funkier side of allniters or out and out Rnb (C/W), either. Sorry but that's my perogative. I feel most "DJs' who play this stuff would drop it in a heartbeat if they could find top quality traditional sounding N Soul.

I've been to Mike's gig in Gloucester. I've been to quite a few others too, of all descriptions and have to say that the "look-backs" don't usually reflect the kind of experience I've had at the venues. I think Dogstoat's posting above is just about where I am at the moment, it's not nice to slag off events that you've not enjoyed as other folk may well have enjoyed them. But if only the truth were posted by everyone about thier weekly sojourn into the world of Northern Soul there'd be more than a bloodbath ensue eh? Therefore most of us do as our parents taught us and say nowt. "If you can't say anything nice then don't say anything at all." has led to the mindset described by Dogstoat I reckon.

I wish you well with your gig and hopefully I'll get round to visiting at some stage.

Regards,

Dave

That's all fair comment Dave, you know what you like/dislike and make the choice of where to go. I'm not a fan of 'crossover' sounds so wouldn't go to a night advertised as playing crossover and if I did I certainly wouldn't moan about too much crossover being played...but I'd moan like hell if a night advertised as 'up-tempo 60s' played too much. I think that as long as events advertise what's on offer accurately it avoids people being unhappy on the night.

There is a serious lack of balanced views on feedback threads, but hardly surprising when the few people who do make criticisms are treated like trouble makers and ganged up on, insulted and generally made to feel like crap for even daring to have an opinion. Sadly I have also subscribed to the 'say nothing' mindset as it just means an easier life but it does make an old saying spring to mind 'All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing'

Cheers,

Adam.

PS. Not currently running a gig Dave, hopefully that will change in the new year and you'd be made very welcome

[Guest Mrs Williams]

Thank's folk's, for all your postings.

I think it's best not to mention names or places, due to some folk not being too pleasant........i just get a bit fed up with the two faced people...........some of my friend's have said that there are alot of politics on this scene now...............but im not really interested in all that, i just want to enjoy a night out, with great music, nice people & no hassle.

I have only been on the scene since the 80s, but i have visited clubs in London, Southend, Wigan, & now Lincolnshire & Nottingham & i have met some really lovely people & made some great friend's...........i think i will just ignore the idiot's from now on.........all i can say is, thank god you can choose your friend's

Edited July 20, 2011 by Debbie Dee

[Guest Mrs Williams]

Ps I do tend to pick & choose the clubs i go to now, i will check to see who's playing & if it's a fav dj i know im going to like what he plays..........if a friend starts up a new night, when i can i will go to give them a bit of support.

Some friends say that there are alot of politics on this scene, but im not intersted in all that, all i want is to have an enjoyable night out, with music i like & good company, so if anyone feels the need to put a dj down to me & then praise them the following day on a thread...........THEN DON'T TELL ME, IM NOT INTERESTED!

Debbie x

[Douglas]

Pete,

Some of the RnB I've heard played sounds like C/W to me. I'm not decrying either genre of music per se. Just not for me at a Northern Soul gig is all. Seem to have strayed off topic a bit now...

Regards,

Dave

I totally agree Dave,some of the R & B is nothing less than black Rock & Roll and C & W, some of it is about as relevant to soul music as Girls Aloud.

[Geeselad]

I totally agree Dave,some of the R & B is nothing less than black Rock & Roll and C & W, some of it is about as relevant to soul music as Girls Aloud.

Hate to be pedantic doug but there's a really strong conection between both black R and R, country and western and soul music.

[Naughty Boy]

Debbie .... just ignore it..... Ive got one that calls we a wank dj behind my back , he said it once too often and has been heard on a good few occasions now and this is from a 1st class pecker head that just started on the scene maybe 5years max and his wife plays out with a 50box of bootlegs ffs oooh and he thinks northern starts at the snake and ends there too ffs its all petty northern bollotics

Edited July 20, 2011 by Naughty Boy

[NEV]

I totally agree Dave,some of the R & B is nothing less than black Rock & Roll and C & W, some of it is about as relevant to soul music as Girls Aloud.

And some of the "Northern soul" ive heard over the yrs dating back from late 70's has no relevance to soul ,but hey ho thats "Northern soul" for ya

[Ged Parker]

Shock news just in............................................

Some people are two-faced, some promotors use any means possible to promote their event and some people don't like critisism.

Not exactly a "hold the front page" situation.

All part of life not just this scene.

[Guest Mrs Williams]

Debbie .... just ignore it..... Ive got one that calls we a wank dj behind my back , he said it once too often and has been heard on a good few occasions now and this is from a 1st class pecker head that just started on the scene maybe 5years max and his wife plays out with a 50box of bootlegs ffs oooh and he thinks northern starts at the snake and ends there too ffs its all petty northern bollotics

Him & his wife sound a right pair of idiots!.............but yes your right, it's just best to ignore them.

Debbie x

[Guest Mrs Williams]

Shock news just in............................................

Some people are two-faced, some promotors use any means possible to promote their event and some people don't like critisism.

Not exactly a "hold the front page" situation.

All part of life not just this scene.

I must admit, this is new to me...........but i did not expect that kind of thing from folk who are old enough to know better.

All i can say to you Ged is.........if this is a part of your everyday life, then you poor thing!.........perhaps your mixing with the wrong sort of people?

[barney]

Debbie .... just ignore it..... Ive got one that calls we a wank dj behind my back , he said it once too often and has been heard on a good few occasions now and this is from a 1st class pecker head that just started on the scene maybe 5years max and his wife plays out with a 50box of bootlegs ffs oooh and he thinks northern starts at the snake and ends there too ffs its all petty northern bollotics

a bit thin skinned arent we rob surely you have been called worse

and as for petty northern bollotics , then why respond in such a manner, especially when the guy doesnt come on here , say it to his face and dont bring his partner into it,, thats petty

[Naughty Boy]

a bit thin skinned arent we rob surely you have been called worse

and as for petty northern bollotics , then why respond in such a manner, especially when the guy doesnt come on here , say it to his face and dont bring his partner into it,, thats petty

oooh yes i have and indeed i willl Barney althouigh many folks have told me to let it lie because they know i dont mix my words i call it how it is .... funny how he never said it to me but said it to everyone else obviously huh....and how have brought him into it ... i aint mentioned no names but it quite obvious aint it.... being that everyone else knows ffs

Edited July 20, 2011 by Naughty Boy

[Pete S]

I totally agree Dave,some of the R & B is nothing less than black Rock & Roll and C & W,

But surely that's where soul music sprang from in the first place?

[Billywhizz]

Debbie .... just ignore it..... Ive got one that calls we a wank dj behind my back , he said it once too often and has been heard on a good few occasions now and this is from a 1st class pecker head that just started on the scene maybe 5years max and his wife plays out with a 50box of bootlegs ffs oooh and he thinks northern starts at the snake and ends there too ffs its all petty northern bollotics

Rob i've only heard play one hour spot at Scarborough last year. I thought that was spot on, up tempo, a few floaters and cross overs. What can you ask more from a Wigan veterian.

Cheers Billy

[Douglas]

Let's put it this way,i would rather listen to blue eyed soul music allday long than most of the crap played under the guise of R & B,loads of pr*cks acting highbrow when deep down they know it is mainly garbage,ditto 99% of Crossover,Popcorn and which ever new pathetic name has cropped up to describe records that didn't make it first time around for a good reason,they are sh*t.

[barney]

oooh yes i have and indeed i willl Barney althouigh many folks have told me to let it lie because they know i dont mix my words i call it how it is .... funny how he never said it to me but said it to everyone else obviously huh....and how have brought him into it ... i aint mentioned no names but it quite obvious aint it.... being that everyone else knows ffs

rob this aint the only forum where you have mentioned this , but I aint defending the guy ,

just making the point ,

about the night in question I made a comment on another thread and though tongue in cheek it was answered by yourself and no doubt we will have words over this , its about opinions , mine is you and your mates do a fantastic job promotin brid , but if you was dj,in on my front lawn I would draw the curtains and turn the telly up,

but then again I aint been on the scene two minutes and ride a scooter and know fook all about the music , fortunately our angie doesnt dj,

cheers b

ps only mentioned two names yours and angies

Edited July 20, 2011 by barney

[Mike]

Let's put it this way,i would rather listen to blue eyed soul music allday long than most of the crap played under the guise of R & B,loads of pr*cks acting highbrow when deep down they know it is mainly garbage,ditto 99% of Crossover,Popcorn and which ever new pathetic name has cropped up to describe records that didn't make it first time around for a good reason,they are sh*t.

drop this sh*tty tone

not needed or wanted

if you can't post without calling people pr*cks and slagging others taste/styles then dont post

Closing this as threads gone way off topic

as the recent personal conversation shows

feel free to start a new thread if wish to continue discussion on any of the many points raised