Cee Lo Green V Funky Newies

[Guest Preems]

I feel sorry for the bad press that has now been thrust on (to my mind) a fantastic Detroit funk soul record Steve - one that may have a strong funk edged beat but great soulful vocals over it - hence why i thought it fair to play it in todays climate. I would hardly put it in the comedy party funk category - its not Do The Bus Stop for flip's sake! As Boba pointed out to if you want to hear REAL soul check the flip of BAOS 'Betrothal' out.....beautiful.

The other sad thing is out of the limited crowd there that night (not due to the funk before any of you start ) most of them danced to it and a few had previously requested it, which was great to see imho. As one of the DJs its my job to try to get a balance right of what people want to hear across the board, alongside stuff you like yourself and hope to play to people. I always try to play what classic 60's stuff I have both mid and uptempo in the first set and try to be a bit more interesting in the second? Some 45s work, some don't - I had hoped maybe the 100 would be a place this might of (and thought it had on the night) - but onward ever upward, have to find something else with the funk toned down a tad - all part of the rare soul jocking game!

Cheers!

J

not a huge champoin of funk myself but,

I for one am mainly glad to have read this thread to have been turned on to the Black Aces of Soul, EXCELLENT RECORD!!!!!!!

[Corbett80]

Out of interest, whats older scene members view of 'funky oldies' then ie: Frankie Crocker, The Crow et al?

[Philt]

"i know it is steve. but nothing good or exciting about the last 2 records . BAOS is a poor mans psychelic shack soundalike...and APPOLOS is a dull funk instrumental........got pace about them but thats all...not for me.is that the best we can do ..wheres the real stuff

dave"

But would you rather hear Cee Lo Green at a nighter?

I'd rather hear Hughie Green

[Guest MrC]

Out of interest, whats older scene members view of 'funky oldies' then ie: Frankie Crocker, The Crow et al?

"Ton of Dynamite" is just a classic tune IMO, (and has an uncanny resemblance to K-Gee by the Niteliters), always loved it, AND love quite a bit of the modern funky tunes too!

[KevH]

I'd rather hear Hughie Green

And he "means that most sincerely folks"...

[KevH]

Out of interest, whats older scene members view of 'funky oldies' then ie: Frankie Crocker, The Crow et al?

Classics Joel.Add to that Prince George,James Fountain, and a few others.Funky stuff being played is nothing new,its just that some folks didn't know it was funky at the time..........

Edited July 20, 2011 by KevH

[Ian Dewhirst]

Out of interest, whats older scene members view of 'funky oldies' then ie: Frankie Crocker, The Crow et al?

I liked some of 'em, namely the ones I thought were the best of the bunch like Frankie Crocker, James Fountain, Prince George, The Temprees etc. Most of the ones I liked had some form of vocal on as opposed to being just instrumental though.........

Must admit that I hated stuff like R.B. Freeman, Snoopy Dean, Alpaca Phase 11, so I was as choosy with funky Northern as I was with everything else LOL.....

Ian D

[Steve G]

Classics Joel.Add to that Prince George,James Fountain, and a few others.Funky stuff being played is nothing new,its just that some folks didn't know it was funky at the time..........

...or were not around back then and therefore only have an 80s onwards view of the scene.

[Corbett80]

Just interested to know as none of the funky records being played by any of the jocks i've heard are in any way different to aforementioned 'funky oldies'.....

Joe Hicks, Lou Pride even....seems to me theres been heavy enough funk elements throughout northern soul to make the current crop of new records almost a revival! :)

Maybe some just don't feel the quality is there with the new finds?

[Guest miff]

Just interested to know as none of the funky records being played by any of the jocks i've heard are in any way different to aforementioned 'funky oldies'.....

Joe Hicks, Lou Pride even....seems to me theres been heavy enough funk elements throughout northern soul to make the current crop of new records almost a revival! :)

Maybe some just don't feel the quality is there with the new finds?

Very much so, Willie J & co, Black Nasty, Flemining Emeralds, September Jones, East Coast Connection, Always has been Funky Northern around,

Verry much disagrre on the quity around these days,theres a vast catolgue of sounds to have a go at with a funky edge to them wevenot reley started on them yet, just listern to the Funk Thread in Refosoul if it ever gets up and running again

[Dave Pinch]

But would you rather hear Cee Lo Green at a nighter?

you got me there joel coz i wouldnt.not knocking you personally bud. you keep on doin what youre doin. just those two particular records are not for me personally...and probably some more.but i will keep progressing in my own sweet way

dave

[Guest miff]

But would you rather hear Cee Lo Green at a nighter?

Not sure if this question is aimed at me or not, but anyhow, IMHO, It depends on the nighter in question Lets say main room saturday night, good atmosphire, acroos the board policy, full dance floor, why not, Rare soul nighter Well Ive heard tunes such as Bobby Womack, Across 110st, Driazabone real love all played at the Wilton so why not, If I only her it once its not the end of the world

And No am not saying Cee Lo Is equal in anyway to Bobby Womack .

[Simsy]

Just interested to know as none of the funky records being played by any of the jocks i've heard are in any way different to aforementioned 'funky oldies'.....

Joe Hicks, Lou Pride even....seems to me theres been heavy enough funk elements throughout northern soul to make the current crop of new records almost a revival! :)

Maybe some just don't feel the quality is there with the new finds?

I'm not so sure you can compare Lou Pride, Joe Hicks & the Crow to the recent funky discoveries.. You listen to the oldies, they have a distinctive beat to dance to. Newies don't, the beat is all over the place. This is the whole point of this thread in all honesty.

[tim smithers]

Thats what makes it intresting to me , with the beat all over the place, ive got a little bored of hearing the same motown type beat for the last 30 odd years

I'm not so sure you can compare Lou Pride, Joe Hicks & the Crow to the recent funky discoveries.. You listen to the oldies, they have a distinctive beat to dance to. Newies don't, the beat is all over the place. This is the whole point of this thread in all honesty.

[Dave Abbott]

i am bowing out of this now - because in all honesty i do not know what constitutes a funk record and nor do i care; i like what i like; but there are members on here that will clearly love to hate something that is not 'normal soul' and take the piss.

[Simsy]

Thats what makes it intresting to me , with the beat all over the place, ive got a little bored of hearing the same motown type beat for the last 30 odd years

Are you a dancer?

[tim smithers]

yes

Are you a dancer?

[Simsy]

yes

Hmm. still unconvinced that stuff can be danced to in the same way as a Soul record ...

[Philt]

Just interested to know as none of the funky records being played by any of the jocks i've heard are in any way different to aforementioned 'funky oldies'.....

Joe Hicks, Lou Pride even....seems to me theres been heavy enough funk elements throughout northern soul to make the current crop of new records almost a revival! :)

Maybe some just don't feel the quality is there with the new finds?

Like anything and as its always been, some have it and some don't IMHO. What I kind of object to though is

a. Being told it's a new, fresh direction when it clearly is not (whatever you wanna call it, funky soul, gospel, it's been done before, lots ...); and

b. playing 'new' stuff that just isn't even nearly good enough - IMHO of course - almost for the sake of itself; if it ain't broke don't fix it. As has been said many, many times before, there seem to be plenty of 45s still out there that could be reactivated but which never get an airing, usually because they ain't 'funky' or 'uptempo' enough and yet, to these ears, they knock some of this gear into the proverbial cocked hat.

At the risk of sounding defensive ... ... as for taking the piss out of anything that doesn't constitute 'normal soul', I apologise if I gave that impression via my perhaps trite Hughie Green analogy. Nonetheless, I think that misses the point - and this certainly isn't a a personal pop at Dave A btw, don't think we even know each other and anyone who owns Soul Inc will do for me - and yet, in another sense, it makes it beautifully.

At the further risk of resurrecting [yet another] done to death topic on here and going off at a [albeit related] tangent, there still seems to be a school of thought which infers that if you don't like this particular 'genre' - for want of a better description - and / or think that there's a place at a nighter for anything other than uptempo sounds per se, then you are in some way staid, unprogressive, missing the point and or don't 'get it.'

It's all about perceptions of quality in the end isn't it? Inevitably, what sounds fantastic to one set of lugs will make another bleed, that's always been the case and it's that diversity which keeps it fresh isn't it? I've backed mine for thirty + years and will continue to do so; moreover, I have always and will continue to collect right across the black music spectrum, including more 'traditional' northern sounding records.

In a nutshell then, I always have and always will be open to new sounds and, inevitably, some I'll rate and others I won't. The one posted on here is, for me, just very, very ordinary and I can't personally see the merit in playing it out. (Again, just my opinion which, in the greater scheme, naturally, ain't worth jack s*it to anyone else and neither should it be).

Absolutely fair play to anyone who tries to keep things going forward, all I really ask as a punter is that folk mix it up a bit.

[Jordirip]

Thats what makes it intresting to me , with the beat all over the place, ive got a little bored of hearing the same motown type beat for the last 30 odd years

I've been waiting for someone to say this. i totally agree with you Tim. Firstly to call a 4x4 drum beat a 'soul' beat is a laugh in itself, it's a 'northern' beat not a soul beat. Soul has many rhythms and beats and if you can't dance to anything else other than a 4x4 metronome beat then I would say you're probably a sh*t dancer. Let's face it, there's plenty of sh*t dancers on the northern scene who really think they are good when all they do is the same slidey moves to every track and not even in time to the metronome beat. Disco and house music have the same 'idiot proof' beat which is why some of it gets played in the across the board rooms, so that the rhythmically challenged can still dance to it. Me personally, I love records with trickier beats and rhythms, I like music that makes me move all over.

Jordi

Edited July 21, 2011 by chalky
language edited

[Geeselad]

Hmm. still unconvinced that stuff can be danced to in the same way as a Soul record ...

The dancing, much like the music has always evolved and developed, some of its a little fast for these feet and others a little tricky because of time signitures. As long as its four to the floor and around 100- 130 BPM its good to groove in my book.

[Simsy]

I've been waiting for someone to say this. i totally agree with you Tim. Firstly to call a 4x4 drum beat a 'soul' beat is a laugh in itself, it's a 'northern' beat not a soul beat. Soul has many rhythms and beats and if you can't dance to anything else other than a 4x4 metronome beat then I would say you're probably a sh*t dancer. Let's face it, there's plenty of sh*t dancers on the northern scene who really think they are good when all they do is the same slidey moves to every track and not even in time to the metronome beat. Disco and house music have the same 'idiot proof' beat which is why some of it gets played in the across the board rooms, so that the rhythmically challenged can still dance to it. Me personally, I love records with trickier beats and rhythms, I like music that makes me move all over.

Jordi

The dancing, much like the music has always evolved and developed, some of its a little fast for these feet and others a little tricky because of time signitures. As long as its four to the floor and around 100- 130 BPM its good to groove in my book.

Sorry, I totally disagree. Soul is soul and funk is funk. A crossover NS track will still have a distinguishable dance beat. I'm an excellent dancer thanks very much, but I can't be hoodwinked into dancing to something other than soul on a soul dance scene.

[Dave Abbott]

At the risk of sounding defensive ... ... as for taking the piss out of anything that doesn't constitute 'normal soul', I apologise if I gave that impression via my perhaps trite Hughie Green analogy. Nonetheless, I think that misses the point - and this certainly isn't a a personal pop at Dave A btw, don't think we even know each other and anyone who owns Soul Inc will do for me - and yet, in another sense, it makes it beautifully.

Hello Phil; I was not refering to you in my post. I had not even read your Hughie comment - but now that you've pointed it out I am somehow going to have to retrospectively have a sulk and huff with you now LOL.

I think you are right and its all perception - and peoples do differ at the end of the day.

We did meet a few Burnley's ago - somehow in the darkness we missed each other there last Saturday (though I did of course see you DJ; very enjoyable btw)

[Guest in town Mikey]

I'm confused about it all. All I do know is I went to Deep Funk once and didnt enjoy it.

Worlds Funkiest Band - When You're Alone, sounds pretty soulful to me. Yet something like 'Papa's got a brand new bag', sounds very funky, even if the band arent the funkiest.

[Winnie :-)]

I'm confused about it all. All I do know is I went to Deep Funk once and didnt enjoy it.

Worlds Funkiest Band - When You're Alone, sounds pretty soulful to me. Yet something like 'Papa's got a brand new bag', sounds very funky, even if the band arent the funkiest.

I used to sometimes go to the Calais in Dunstable, downstairs they had a room called the 'Devil's Den', the kind of funk played there was definitely what's been played on the northern scene. In the 7Ts when the two scenes were entirely seperate, would Frankie Crocker have been played at a funk event, certainly never heard it at the Calais, perhaps that's why in the 7Ts we didn't know it was funky, because it wasn't?

[tim smithers]

Funk is a music genre that originated in the mid-late 1960s when African American musicians blended soul music, jazz and R&B into a rhythmic, danceable new form of music. Funk de-emphasizes melody and harmony and brings a strong rhythmic groove of electric bass and drums to the foreground. Funk songs are often based on an extended vamp on a single chord, distinguishing it from R&B and soul songs, which are centered on chord progressions.

Like much African-inspired music, funk typically consists of a complex groove with rhythm instruments such as electric guitar, electric bass, Hammond organ, and drums playing interlocking rhythms. Funk bands sometimes have a horn section of several saxophones, trumpets, and in some cases, a trombone, which plays rhythmic "hits".

Many of the most famous bands in the genre also played disco and soul extensively. Funk music was a major influence on the development of disco music and afrobeat, and funk samples have been used extensively in genres including hip hop, house music and drum and bass. It is also the main influence of go-go, a subgenre associated with funk

[Simsy]

Funk is a music genre that originated in the mid-late 1960s when African American musicians blended soul music, jazz and R&B into a rhythmic, danceable new form of music. Funk de-emphasizes melody and harmony and brings a strong rhythmic groove of electric bass and drums to the foreground. Funk songs are often based on an extended vamp on a single chord, distinguishing it from R&B and soul songs, which are centered on chord progressions.

Like much African-inspired music, funk typically consists of a complex groove with rhythm instruments such as electric guitar, electric bass, Hammond organ, and drums playing interlocking rhythms. Funk bands sometimes have a horn section of several saxophones, trumpets, and in some cases, a trombone, which plays rhythmic "hits".

Many of the most famous bands in the genre also played disco and soul extensively. Funk music was a major influence on the development of disco music and afrobeat, and funk samples have been used extensively in genres including hip hop, house music and drum and bass. It is also the main influence of go-go, a subgenre associated with funk

Hmm.. Bit inconclusive there Tim.

However we've met and you strike me as a sensible chap with a wealth of scene knowledge. I know I paint these funky newies as the Devils's music 'not soul' - 'wrong dance beat' etc - but you know what? It's still obscure black american music and it's new & fresh. If it were just me and a bunch of no disrespect, string vested spencers dancing to the 7 Souls all night, the world would be a feckin boring place!

So what you moaning about then Simsy? (Sorry for 3rd party ref - uber naff - just trying to summerise thread point) Well I'm not moaning, I'm debating. I still think Cunnie's C Lo edit wizzes on Joel's funk number - but that's just me and my (maybe fcuked up) opinion. For me it's all about the soul.

Joel Corbett80 is a great dj btw and if you've not caught his set yet, you should!

[Corbett80]

Thanks for the kind words Ian! Turned out to be an interesting discussion all told, and as said, comments taken aboard! Not surprised BAOS divides opinion if I'm honest, but was worth trying it out - quite a few danced, others cringed, c'est la vie. 'Foisting' or 'forcing it down peoples throats' is never the aim however.

Toodlepip

Edited July 21, 2011 by corbett80

[tim smithers]

Hmm.. Bit inconclusive there Tim.

However we've met and you strike me as a sensible chap with a wealth of scene knowledge. I know I paint these funky newies as the Devils's music 'not soul' - 'wrong dance beat' etc - but you know what? It's still obscure black american music and it's new & fresh. If it were just me and a bunch of no disrespect, string vested spencers dancing to the 7 Souls all night, the world would be a feckin boring place!

So what you moaning about then Simsy? (Sorry for 3rd party ref - uber naff - just trying to summerise thread point) Well I'm not moaning, I'm debating. I still think Cunnie's C Lo edit wizzes on Joel's funk number - but that's just me and my (maybe fcuked up) opinion. For me it's all about the soul.

Joel Corbett80 is a great dj btw and if you've not caught his set yet, you should!

[Philt]

Hello Phil; I was not refering to you in my post. I had not even read your Hughie comment - but now that you've pointed it out I am somehow going to have to retrospectively have a sulk and huff with you now LOL.

I think you are right and its all perception - and peoples do differ at the end of the day.

We did meet a few Burnley's ago - somehow in the darkness we missed each other there last Saturday (though I did of course see you DJ; very enjoyable btw)

Cheerss Dave, FFS say hello next time! My mincers ain't what they used to be (along with all my other body parts)

atb

Phil

[Guest Polyvelts]

Just listened to Black Aces of Soul, Great Stomper ! (or shuffler, if you call it that, we always called it stomping!?) I'd dance to it while my 48 year old legs still can, as I would to Eugene Gaspard, Rudy Love, Roy Roberts, Mixed Sugar, Charlene and Soul searchers, just as I did to Judy Freeman and Black Rock etc back in da day !

Heard Joel a few times, very good DJ, likes 'she said goodbye' which I sometimes stomp to too ....