Jackie Wilson - Was James Jamerson His Bass Player On Recording's ?

[Guest eddiep]

Hi everyone,

Had a nagging theory for years about whether the legendary bassist, James Jamerson was actually Jackie Wilson's bass player on his recording's.

I know Jamerson did moonlight and was the bass player on "Higher And Higher" and also his touring bassist on occasion's but did he record on them other magnificent Brunswick release's?

If you have a tuned your ear into the bass lines of "Because Of You", "I've Lost You", "What'cha Gonna Do Bout Love", "Whispers" etc. etc. they seriously sound like Jamerson's brilliant and unique style of playing.

To me anyway!

I can't think of any better or more consistantly melodic bass riff's outside of the Motown release's that Jamerson played on. Which of course he dominated over the years and redefined the role of what "playing bass" was all about.

Probably guessed by now James Jamerson is a bit of an idol of mine and would love to find any info out on this matter.

But.....If it wasn't him, who was it?

Thanks in advance everyone if you can help.

Eddie

[Guest TONY ROUNCE]

I don't think that James would have been on late recordings like 'Because Of You' and 'What'cha Gonna Do' as he was in Las Angeles but the time they were recorded and it's a bit further to commute frem there to Chicago than it is from Detroit.

But I would imagine that, given what we now know about moonlighting Motown musicians, he's more than likely on more than just the 'Higher And Higher' session from the 60s. Along with various other Funk Brothers, of course...

[Kris Holmes]

Great players like Phil Upchurch & Bernard Reed would also have been on the scene around these times for Brunswick & they are also pretty melodic players. Hard to be certain about anything that isn't documented though.

[Guest Dante]

I asked a similar question in this thread:

Bernard Reed seems like the safest bet on Because Of You / Beautiful Day LP. Jamerson certainly was not.

[Guest eddiep]

Thanks Tony, Kris and Dante

Totally oblivious I'm ashamed to say as to who Bernard Reed is but will be doing some homework now.

TONY....

Thinking about the point you made with the Motown relocation and James's to L. A., it seems pretty fair to suggest it couldn't of been Jamerson on them Jackie Wilson recording's due to location. (Why didn't I think of that? )

KRIS....

That is the trouble with finding out any background info. There isn't much documentation of these great musicians that played on the music we all love. Tragic really as there must be so many that should be household name's and never got any recognition at all.

DANTE....

Thanks for highlightening Bernard Reed to me.

If it is him and there's no reason to say it's not after your previous post (which I missed) and the info you've collected, I am in awe of that man's genius playing. Up there with James's I think and definately need to do some digging on this guy.

Thanks for your input fellas.

Anyone with more info it would be appreciated

[Kris Holmes]

Totally oblivious I'm ashamed to say as to who Bernard Reed is but will be doing some homework now.

Bernard Reed is on quite a lot of the mid-late Brunsweick era Artistics sides as well as well as Barbara Acklin stuff. He's the bassist on "Am I The Same Girl"/Young-Holt's "Soulful Strut". So you'll have definitely heard Reed without neccessarily knowing it's him. The Pieces of Peace LP that came out a couple of years back is great.

Read his bio here: Bernard Reed

He's a pretty legendary R&B bassist.

[Dave Moore]

Eddie,

The best way to id Jamerson is to listen to the records in their entirety. If you try to isolate the bass alone it really does need a trained detective to id some of his performances. But on stuff like certain Jackie Wilson's mid 60s output Jamerson was not alone. Other members of the Motown house band were also playing with him. Benjamin is a good indicator, although he also was heavily mimicked as the sound of Hitsville grew.

A great example of what I mean is The Valentinos - "Sweeter Than The Day Before" Have a listen. You can distinctly hear the performances of them at the core of the music. The band are being 'chased' along by the drum and base combo just like so many classic Motown songs. The record could have easily come straight out of 2648 WGB. I always smile when 'DJs" introduce it as the Chicago Sound. What?? You deaf or summat!

Regards,

Dave

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YuYR6k2poZc

[Rick Cooper]

Eddie

According to Carl Davis who produced a lot of JWs mid 60s stuff Jamerson and the rest of the Funk Brothers were on a lot of Jackie Wilsons records. Also the Andates were on background vocals on Higher and Higher. The lead vocal was recorded in New York to the track cut in Chicago. The musicians were paid double the usual rate in cash.

This is from the book ''The Man Behind the Music'' by Carl Davis which I got a couple of days ago and has already answered a couple of posts. It is available from Carl Davis at www.carldavisstory.com and is well worth getting.

Rick

[Guest eddiep]

KRIS...

Thanks for the link mate to the Bernard Reed bio.

Fascinating stuff to those of us trying to get a bit deeper into why this music is so great and who really was behind it. Much appreciated mate.

DAVE....

You've opened my ears mate.

Thanks for the pointer into perhaps looking a bit deeper, or should I say listening a bit closer to the whole production.

Have a tendancy to lock onto the bass groove before anything else. Most of the time for me it litterally is the "hook" that pull's me in to any tune.

RICK....

Will be checking this out mate. Thanks for the info

That backgound stuff from Mr. Davis is gonna answer a lot of question's by the sounds of it! Cheers mate.

Thank you everyone so far.

Your contribution's and knowledge is most appreciated guys. Thank you.

Edited July 12, 2011 by eddiep

[Blackpoolsoul]

On 11/07/2011 at 22:37, Rick Cooper said:

Eddie

According to Carl Davis who produced a lot of JWs mid 60s stuff Jamerson and the rest of the Funk Brothers were on a lot of Jackie Wilsons records. Also the Andates were on background vocals on Higher and Higher. The lead vocal was recorded in New York to the track cut in Chicago. The musicians were paid double the usual rate in cash.

 

This is from the book ''The Man Behind the Music'' by Carl Davis which I got a couple of days ago and has already answered a couple of posts. It is available from Carl Davis at www.carldavisstory.com and is well worth getting.

Rick

10 years on and I was having a conversation with my mate and he drew me to this thread. He had a conversation in Manchester with the Funk Brothers and them travelling to Chicago for peanuts $$ to record including Jackie Wilson.

Perhaps I missed it somewhere else so please send me if I did

 

On 11/07/2011 at 11:19, Dave Moore said:

Eddie,

 

The best way to id Jamerson is to listen to the records in their entirety. If you try to isolate the bass alone it really does need a trained detective to id some of his performances. But on stuff like certain Jackie Wilson's mid 60s output Jamerson was not alone. Other members of the Motown house band were also playing with him. Benjamin is a good indicator, although he also was heavily mimicked as the sound of Hitsville grew.

 

A great example of what I mean is The Valentinos - "Sweeter Than The Day Before" Have a listen. You can distinctly hear the performances of them at the core of the music. The band are being 'chased' along by the drum and base combo just like so many classic Motown songs. The record could have easily come straight out of 2648 WGB. I always smile when 'DJs" introduce it as the Chicago Sound. What?? You deaf or summat!

 

Regards,

 

Dave

 

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YuYR6k2poZc

I didn't have to dig far to find even Robert Pruter sort of hinted

https://www.britannica.com/topic/Its-All-Right-Chicago-Soul-1688338

Billy Davis had been Gordy’s songwriting partner before joining the artists-and-repertoire (A&R) staff at Chess, where he worked with most of the label’s roster, including Etta James and Sugar Pie DeSanto. Following the success of Gene Chandler’s “Duke of Earl” (1961), producer Carl Davis was appointed head of A&R for OKeh Records, where he recruited Mayfield to write for several artists including Lance. Davis then moved to Brunswick Records, where he produced one of Jackie Wilson’s finest records, “(Your Love Keeps Lifting Me) Higher and Higher” (1967). He subsequently set up his own Dakar label, whose singles by Tyrone Davis—“Can I Change My Mind?” (1969) and “Turn Back the Hands of Time” (1970)—were classics of wistful regret.

This from Wikipedia

"The backing track was recorded on July 6, 1967 at Columbia's studios in Chicago. Produced by Carl Davis, the session, arranged by Sonny Sanders, featured bassist James Jamerson, drummer Richard "Pistol" Allen, guitarist Robert White, and keyboardist Johnny Griffith; these four musicians were all members of the Motown Records house band The Funk Brothers who often moonlighted on sessions for Davis to augment the wages paid by Motown. [better source needed] 

According to Carl Davis, the Funk Brothers "used to come over on the weekends from Detroit. They'd load up in the van and come over to Chicago, and I would pay 'em double scale, and I'd pay 'em in cash." Similarly, two members of Motown's house session singers The Andantes, Jackie Hicks and Marlene Barrow, along with Pat Lewis (who was filling in for Andantes member Louvain Demps), performed on the session for "Higher and Higher". Drummer Maurice White (better known as a singer for Earth, Wind & Fire) also played on the recording. Motown's Mike Terry played the baritone saxophone.

(do I quote my mate who said they got $80 dollars and it cost $60)!!!