Do You Have Enough Money To Be A Top Northern Soul Dj?

[Northern Soul Uk]

Billysbag, At some of todays prices, you'd only need a Greggs paper pasty bag to carry 50Ks worth of tunes around. Even if I put my House collection of 12000 vinyls and my Northern collection of approx 400, it still would be nowhere near 50k, and would probable need a box van to get them all to a gig.

Edited July 9, 2011 by steveLuigi

[Guest Bearsy]

bearsy i gotta confess im on the wind up again just for the laugh ...but i,ll come clean got a couple of decent mates down south in paticular trickster who unfortunately is in hospital as we speak [trickster youre pals in nottingham wish you a speedy recovery] also been down several times now and although small venues great crowd,made to feel welcomed and loved it down there... right am busted so thats me day ruined ...ktf .

oh damn i didnt realise i got mates up norf and they have big venues and always treated me well its amazing that people from oop norf are actually not that much different from those darn sarf well apart from silly accents that i can never understand

[Guest Bearsy]

Out of curiosity, how much is Bearsy's arse?

And is it in reasonable condition........?

Ian D

it aint cheap and its an absolute minter, well only been a few times so maybe mint minus

[Guest Matt Male]

it aint cheap and its an absolute minter, well only been a few times so maybe mint minus

I heard it's got a crack in it.

[Guest Bearsy]

I heard it's got a crack in it.

its a hairline but still plays like its never been touched before

[Guest]

I don't think having the serious bug for ORIGINAL vinyl (and that is what it HAS to be) .................just belongs in the field of the well off money boys.

There is still so much to find if you keep on looking, and collecting is so much fun.

However ..... Its a great drug........ and most collectors will pay whatever for that record when that right record comes up at the right time.

Its part of our record collecting nature.

I have spent over a thousand pounds this last few weeks on records.

LOL...... to you flash old bastards that aint a tug !

I have bought Gerri Hall - Who can I run too (hot line) (with bongos)- Mava Josie - Later for you baby - (Time) - Seven Souls -I still love you (Okeh) (2nd copy 20 years later) Bennito Sextet - Rhythm and Soul (will be massive one day) - (Mardi Gra)....all this month

also some great latin and ska records !!!

I have aquired some fantastic 15 to 20 quid records this month, for example a record on sue by a group called the chandaliers called shes a heartbreaker - its a great doo wop / group soul track - less than the price of a new cd - this is collecting

And that Charles Bradley LP

I am not a DJ .......or even a scene person

You will not see me anywhere.

I am just a collector of original records . I like to be left alone. I buy originals for ME !

To the person who wants to DJ with pressings........................... You have missed the point !

Go and find some of your own records to play to your crowd, and if you do need some established records.

respect the scene and play originals.

Use your own taste and if you cant..... at least respect the record and its history by owning a real one before faking a boot to soul people

I would never play a bootleg on my home system

They are just not real ................I hate them

Like a collector of anything original I hate the FAKE !

Edited July 10, 2011 by dancecrasher

[Guest soul over easy]

I don't think having the serious bug for ORIGINAL vinyl (and that is what it HAS to be) .................just belongs in the field of the well off money boys.

There is still so much to find if you keep on looking, and collecting is so much fun.

However ..... Its a great drug........ and most collectors will pay whatever for that record when that right record comes up at the right time.

Its part of our record collecting nature.

I have spent over a thousand pounds this last few weeks on records.

LOL...... to you flash old bastards that aint a  tug !

I have bought Gerri Hall - Who can I run too (hot line) (with bongos)- Mava Josie - Later for you baby - (Time) - Seven Souls -I still love you (Okeh)  (2nd copy 20 years later) Bennito Sextet - Rhythm and Soul (will be massive one day) - (Mardi Gra)....all  this month

also  some great  latin and ska records !!!

I have aquired some fantastic 15 to 20 quid records this month,  for example a record on sue by a group called the chandaliers called shes a heartbreaker - its a great doo wop / group soul track - less than the price of a new cd - this is collecting

And that Charles Bradley  LP

I am not a DJ .......or even a scene person

You will not see me anywhere.

I am just a collector of original records . I like to be left alone. I buy originals for ME !

To the person who wants to DJ with pressings........................... You have missed the point  !

Go and find some of your own records to play to your crowd, and if you do need some established records.

respect the scene and play originals.

Use your own taste and if you cant..... at least respect the record and its history by owning a real one before faking a boot to soul people

I would never play a bootleg on my home system

They are just not real ................I hate them

Like a collector of anything original  I  hate the FAKE !

[Guest soul over easy]

youve obviously got more money then sense mr dancecrasher... with a name like that i take it youre not very clever on youre feet then?and if youve got a grand to spare you can give it me gladly, i,ll book me self a nice holiday.I get the impression you want us all to know what a fantastic expensive collection you have... you might think youre smug with youre expensive collection? but that doesnt warrant you a true soul person either.Now theres folks on this site who have spent years collecting and learning how to get a decent collection of ovo the hard way,youve brought yours the quick route by the sounds of it? and it doesnt make you an expert on northern soul by anymeans ? i might have a mixed bag of originals,reissues or boots but like ive already said on here i admit to being a cheapskate but 37yrs since entering the scene i think ive heard a few records in my time and gives me some sort of knowledge regarding the music.On the subject of spending money on ovo ive had a telephone conversation with a very close friend of mine today [tony clarke] who dj,s at the orrell venue playing under played stuff,tony as a superb original collection and most are demos,tony as got the bug like a few of you and would rather get himself in debt then miss an oppertunity on a prized possesion.... so i do understand what it means to most of you? i will continue to buy any record i so desire on what label i wish to [my choice]and you do not get my respect by youre ovo you get my respect in what you play in youre set... you cant buy youre way to the top. Right am off to the alfeton all dayer ...ktf

[Dysonsoul]

To start from scratch now money would have to be spent to get certain records ,but even so money wouldn't guarente top dj status at a cutting edge venue - simply cos money can't buy what isn't there ie top notch new discoveries ! like other folk have mentioned on that side of things it comes with years of digging and experience,depth of collection and equally as important an ear for the right sound.Not to mention respect that can't be bought at any price ! i dare say with x amount of £'s you could buy enough stuff to become a instant oldies high ranking dj but then again there's a million and one of them already .One rule i've always had is never buy a record to dj with ,buy em cos you like em and with the right ear some may be good enough to play a decent entertaining and educational set...

Let's be honest most of us live month to month and just about get by with a few quid spare to treat ourselves to a record or two...

[KevH]

youve obviously got more money then sense mr dancecrasher... with a name like that i take it youre not very clever on youre feet then?and if youve got a grand to spare you can give it me gladly, i,ll book me self a nice holiday.I get the impression you want us all to know what a fantastic expensive collection you have... you might think youre smug with youre expensive collection? but that doesnt warrant you a true soul person either.Now theres folks on this site who have spent years collecting and learning how to get a decent collection of ovo the hard way,youve brought yours the quick route by the sounds of it? and it doesnt make you an expert on northern soul by anymeans ? i might have a mixed bag of originals,reissues or boots but like ive already said on here i admit to being a cheapskate but 37yrs since entering the scene i think ive heard a few records in my time and gives me some sort of knowledge regarding the music.On the subject of spending money on ovo ive had a telephone conversation with a very close friend of mine today [tony clarke] who dj,s at the orrell venue playing under played stuff,tony as a superb original collection and most are demos,tony as got the bug like a few of you and would rather get himself in debt then miss an oppertunity on a prized possesion.... so i do understand what it means to most of you? i will continue to buy any record i so desire on what label i wish to [my choice]and you do not get my respect by youre ovo you get my respect in what you play in youre set... you cant buy youre way to the top. Right am off to the alfeton all dayer ...ktf

Not good to post about other people's buying opportunities.Especially when you're not interested in ovo.

As for dancecrashers post,he's trying to point out there are people who buy ovo not to just cock wave - but its their code of practice - for themselves.You are definatly not getting it....on purpose.

Please feel free to list you fave spins from Alfreton All dayer, on the playlists thread,...these underplayed ones you keep mentioning?

[Pete S]

I would never play a bootleg on my home system

[Chalky]

i see from some other post ive read , im speaking to one of the top men on this soul source site [mods] i do beleive? im honoured.I am very well aware that butch is from stoke wich incidently is less than an hour from me!and my hearing is quite in working order i know keb is a scottsman,and i remember keb introducing a lot of new stuff back in the day at the nottingham odd fellows soul club aka central england soul club in leicester.Just that ive read comments on here and i get the impression keb and butch are quite high in esteem in the london area correct? also the few times i have been down there ive seen a few of kebs clones trying to immitate his moves...now unless im mistaken ? i do beleive venues i regularly frequent have dealers selling records, and collectors in attendance, also dj,s coming to listen,so you see chalky it does have something to do with venues ive mentioned... i see by youre age youre a whipper snapper on the scene! and i bet deep down youre dissapointed on missing some of the biggest nighters back in the day?now by youre nickname chalky you wouldnt have a few for sale by anychance? p.s. no disrespect to any of you from london way on here ive been treated very well down there,my last visit was for the tsunami appeal hosted by me mate trickster...just dont want some whipper snapper on here trying to think he,s clever with me, i have wound a few up in a bit of fun... but reading between the lines i do know most of you are decent folks so i intend to stop it and give you the respect you deserve...ktf.

I don't consider myself any different to anyone else who uses this site except I help out on the looking after side of things.

My age matters little but I'm 44, been collecting and listening to rare soul and attending venues for some 27 years or so. I think that gives me all the knowledge and experience needed to collect and to DJ, I've DJ'ed all ove the country, whether I have been to this venue or that venue matters little if you ask me. I dare say I've more experience than many who went to Wigan, Torch etc cause many had 20 years off the scene. I've bought and sold records for most of those years, some of my best mates are record dealers, I still go to venues that have record dealers and DJ's that go to listen, Lifeline all-nighter has one of the busiest record bars in the country but I fail to see what this has to do with how good you are at DJing or whether you can DJ with or without a cheque book? At the end of the day it is mostly down to knowledge.

Both Butch and Keb were/are 100 Club residents so that is probably why the Southern lot mention then so often but they were DJ's all over the country.

PS I know Notts Odd Fellows as well so you don't have to explain to me, I'm not that young.

[Godzilla]

...I have spent over a thousand pounds this last few weeks on records...

..but my dad's bigger than yours...

[Guest soul over easy]

fair enough chalky, if you are ever up the midlands way doing an oldies spot i will try my best to come and listen? also would be quite interesting to see what oldies you would put together in a set? i must confess i came on the scene 37yrs years ago but have had breaks of it like most so i take youre point on experience...and by the way nothing wrong with butch or keb as dj,s.Last seen keb at the tsunami fund raiser all dayer in london he did an oldies spot and did a superb job... ktf almost time to set off for the alfreton alldayer.

[Ged Parker]

To quote someone SOE just click this button ffs.

[Steve L]

fair enough chalky, if you are ever up the midlands way doing an oldies spot i will try my best to come and listen? also would be quite interesting to see what oldies you would put together in a set? i must confess i came on the scene 37yrs years ago but have had breaks of it like most so i take youre point on experience...and by the way nothing wrong with butch or keb as dj,s.Last seen keb at the tsunami fund raiser all dayer in london he did an oldies spot and did a superb job... ktf almost time to set off for the alfreton alldayer.

Get out of your comfort zone and get yourself up to the Burnley all nighter next week to hear Chalky and the other top notch DJ's there. It might open your mind up to whats happening outside the bubble that is the East Midlands oldies scene.

You keep mentioning underplayed tunes, same as Kev i'd like to know what these are. At Burnley you'd hear plenty plus some cutting edge stuff plus a fair few big oldies.

Try it you never know you might like it

[Chalky]

fair enough chalky, if you are ever up the midlands way doing an oldies spot i will try my best to come and listen? also would be quite interesting to see what oldies you would put together in a set? i must confess i came on the scene 37yrs years ago but have had breaks of it like most so i take youre point on experience...and by the way nothing wrong with butch or keb as dj,s.Last seen keb at the tsunami fund raiser all dayer in london he did an oldies spot and did a superb job... ktf almost time to set off for the alfreton alldayer.

I doubt very much you would get me in the midlands doing an oldies set, do the Midlands promoters book anyone these days from outside their patch? Last oldies set I did in the midlands would have been at The Hollingwood Hotel when I was resident, mid 90's!!

[Bitchdj]

I doubt very much you would get me in the midlands doing an oldies set, do the Midlands promoters book anyone these days from outside their patch? Last oldies set I did in the midlands would have been at The Hollingwood Hotel when I was resident, mid 90's!!

Remember your last Chesterfield appearance very well Chalky , i was the one who was booing you ! !

[Chalky]

Remember your last Chesterfield appearance very well Chalky , i was the one who was booing you ! !

nothings changed then

[Guest gordon russell]

As far as i,m concerned some of the best nighter dj,s to be found anywhere who can play the right vibe AND DO!!, music that keeps the floor busy and most of all exciting all night.........have collections of tunes that generally are well within the realms of affordability........the key is to buy tunes that you like regardless of wether any big name is playing em or not.....of course you will need a few big hitters (without being boring).............l could reel off quite a few fellas and ladies who do this time after time mainly because they buy what their heart tells em is good.........NOT SOMEONE ELSE..Butch of course along with Andy Dyson are streets ahead merely because they have so many records,but these two aside ya don,t need a shed load of cash l,ve even heard great dance sets played off of L.P,S only.......as STEVE L has stated clubs such as lifeline and my favourite burnley are renowned for playing great biggies and new stuff,but also never forgetting the super smaller tunes (in value only ) both these clubs have different styles and travel on slightly different roads.......therebye suiting slightly different tastes,but it,s done by using dj,s who have BIG and SMALL or expensive and not so................any fool with the cash can buy all the big oldies and be a top dj (they think ).........heres a thought though a lot of em never dj and the coutries best nighters (not even on the radar ) these venues do however rock to folk who play from smaller less expensive boxes ,BUT BIGGER HEARTS TEZZA

Edited July 10, 2011 by gordon russell

[JON WILLIS]

To start from scratch now money would have to be spent to get certain records ,but even so money wouldn't guarente top dj status at a cutting edge venue - simply cos money can't buy what isn't there ie top notch new discoveries ! like other folk have mentioned on that side of things it comes with years of digging and experience,depth of collection and equally as important an ear for the right sound.Not to mention respect that can't be bought at any price ! i dare say with x amount of £'s you could buy enough stuff to become a instant oldies high ranking dj but then again there's a million and one of them already .One rule i've always had is never buy a record to dj with ,buy em cos you like em and with the right ear some may be good enough to play a decent entertaining and educational set...

Let's be honest most of us live month to month and just about get by with a few quid spare to treat ourselves to a record or two...

Buy them because you like it, thats whats its all about, 50 cents or £5,000

[Guest Mart B]

Has a punter on The Northern Scene Ive always respected THE NORTHERN SOUL DJ...dont forget this scene has been running non -stop for the past 40years" returnees take note"!

He would have to spin OVO.........& know when to turn to mid & up tempo or crossover tunes to the floor THE NORTHERN SOUL DJ WOULD PLAN HIS SPOT IN ADVANCE

Present day the respect has gone at SOME venues when free for all djs play From.... cd...... Pressings or even computer ... with no plan or any" knowledge of the scene"outside The 500 oldies..Please spin them thousands of others......If youve got em

What im getting at but some folk DONT get it..... we can all play Fookin sets with pressings..... cds & computer .......

Please can we get back to basics and leave it to THE NORTHERN SOUL DJ....Who have the record collection & THE knowledge of the Scene & the dance floor.....

Regards Mart

[Ian Dewhirst]

As far as i,m concerned some of the best nighter dj,s to be found anywhere who can play the right vibe AND DO!!, music that keeps the floor busy and most of all exciting all night.........have collections of tunes that generally are well within the realms of affordability........the key is to buy tunes that you like regardless of wether any big name is playing em or not.....of course you will need a few big hitters (without being boring).............l could reel off quite a few fellas and ladies who do this time after time mainly because they buy what their heart tells em is good.........NOT SOMEONE ELSE..Butch of course along with Andy Dyson are streets ahead merely because they have so many records,but these two aside ya don,t need a shed load of cash l,ve even heard great dance sets played off of L.P,S only.......as STEVE L has stated clubs such as lifeline and my favourite burnley are renowned for playing great biggies and new stuff,but also never forgetting the super smaller tunes (in value only ) both these clubs have different styles and travel on slightly different roads.......therebye suiting slightly different tastes,but it,s done by using dj,s who have BIG and SMALL or expensive and not so................any fool with the cash can buy all the big oldies and be a top dj (they think ).........heres a thought though a lot of em never dj and the coutries best nighters (not even on the radar ) these venues do however rock to folk who play from smaller less expensive boxes ,BUT BIGGER HEARTS TEZZA

What do you call 'within the realms of affordability' though Tezza?

£1K, £5K, £10K, £50K.......?

Also, we're talking top-level pan European gigs here, not the local Miners Welfare

Another way to look at it, might be to assess how much you'd need to spend on amassing a box of, say, 200 OVO great records that would work across a variety of top venues, y'know, like if you had to start from scratch.

Obviously you could fill a 200 count box with 200 x £10 records, but I guarantee you, that those wouldn't get you through a top venue's door, mainly because I suspect that everyone on Soul Source could do this.

In order to mix it with the top guys and supply the necessary pzazz and excitement about your box, I reckon you'd need a minimum of 20-30 very expensive tunes, most of which would set you back £1K to a few grand each, which would end up around £40-50K. I doubt if I could replicate my 1975 box for much less than £50K if I re-bought them all today (certainly not when I see the prices for original Tomangoes, Del-Larks, Joe Mathews, Salvadores, Micky Farrow, Ernest Mosely, Eddie Daniels etc, etc).

You'd generally need several 'talking point' records in order to seperate you from every other geezer who has a great collection, in other words, one-offs, impossibly rare stuff of which only a handful of copies exist or decent acetates and none of those would come cheap would they?

So I'd say anyone who wanted to make a serious splash, would proabably need to start @ £50K but, more than likely, need to go up £100K plus in order to start attracting the level of audiences that you need at the top level.

Kenny Burrell absolutely knew what he was doing when he bought Fr**k W*ls*n for £15K, because having that one record in his box probably got him hundreds of great gigs over the years because of the rarity of the record. He probably recouped the cost after a year or two I would imagine.

Ian D

Edited July 10, 2011 by Ian Dewhirst

[Ian Dewhirst]

Priceless. Pity my 'home system', the damage done to it by playing bootlegs must be imeasurable.

You heartless b*stard Pete! How could you be so cruel to your home system.........?

Ian D

[Guest]

[Guest]

youve obviously got more money then sense mr dancecrasher... with a name like that i take it youre not very clever on youre feet then?and if youve got a grand to spare you can give it me gladly, i,ll book me self a nice holiday.I get the impression you want us all to know what a fantastic expensive collection you have... you might think youre smug with youre expensive collection? but that doesnt warrant you a true soul person either.Now theres folks on this site who have spent years collecting and learning how to get a decent collection of ovo the hard way,youve brought yours the quick route by the sounds of it? and it doesnt make you an expert on northern soul by anymeans ? i might have a mixed bag of originals,reissues or boots but like ive already said on here i admit to being a cheapskate but 37yrs since entering the scene i think ive heard a few records in my time and gives me some sort of knowledge regarding the music.On the subject of spending money on ovo ive had a telephone conversation with a very close friend of mine today [tony clarke] who dj,s at the orrell venue playing under played stuff,tony as a superb original collection and most are demos,tony as got the bug like a few of you and would rather get himself in debt then miss an oppertunity on a prized possesion.... so i do understand what it means to most of you? i will continue to buy any record i so desire on what label i wish to [my choice]and you do not get my respect by youre ovo you get my respect in what you play in youre set... you cant buy youre way to the top. Right am off to the alfeton all dayer ...ktf

Quick route to what ? LOL ............Ive been collecting for over 20 years.

When you say quick route I assume you mean to be a DJ ?

I have already stated I am a collector and have no intrest in being a DJ.

Surely its you that wants the quick and easy route with your bootlegs ?

I have read your post and must admit that I am bored now.

You keep convincing yourself that it is fine to go out and DJ with bootlegs.

And I will carry on collecting originals at home, spending whatever I fooking want to on my hobby.

[Guest gordon russell]

What do you call 'within the realms of affordability' though Tezza?

£1K, £5K, £10K, £50K.......?

Also, we're talking top-level pan European gigs here, not the local Miners Welfare

Another way to look at it, might be to assess how much you'd need to spend on amassing a box of, say, 200 OVO great records that would work across a variety of top venues, y'know, like if you had to start from scratch.

Obviously you could fill a 200 count box with 200 x £10 records, but I guarantee you, that those wouldn't get you through a top venue's door, mainly because I suspect that everyone on Soul Source could do this.

In order to mix it with the top guys and supply the necessary pzazz and excitement about your box, I reckon you'd need a minimum of 20-30 very expensive tunes, most of which would set you back £1K to a few grand each, which would end up around £40-50K. I doubt if I could replicate my 1975 box for much less than £50K if I re-bought them all today (certainly not when I see the prices for original Tomangoes, Del-Larks, Joe Mathews, Salvadores, Micky Farrow, Ernest Mosely, Eddie Daniels etc, etc).

You'd generally need several 'talking point' records in order to seperate you from every other geezer who has a great collection, in other words, one-offs, impossibly rare stuff of which only a handful of copies exist or decent acetates and none of those would come cheap would they?

So I'd say anyone who wanted to make a serious splash, would proabably need to start @ £50K but, more than likely, need to go up £100K plus in order to start attracting the level of audiences that you need at the top level.

Kenny Burrell absolutely knew what he was doing when he bought Fr**k W*ls*n for £15K, because having that one record in his box probably got him hundreds of great gigs over the years because of the rarity of the record. He probably recouped the cost after a year or two I would imagine.

Ian D

Firstly l am not talking about so called top flight european gigs (what are they ?) am talking about top british nighters

the small guys and the big guys compliment one another NOT COMPETE listen to records with your ears not the price

kenny burrell who by the way is a personal friend and a decent chap dj,d at burnley once......and he absolutely bombed even though he played the likes of the mello souls and he underestimated the vibe at this particular club massively.

you need nowt to seperate you from anyone if the vibe of the night is a collective responsability of the dj,s wether they have the rarer one off,s or not. Your whole argument is based purely on rarity and value...............NOT GOING OUT TO HAVE A KICKING NIGHT..........this is the difference between collectors views and folk going out to enjoy themselves..........tezza

[Mace]

Kenny Burrell absolutely knew what he was doing when he bought Fr**k W*ls*n for £15K, because having that one record in his box probably got him hundreds of great gigs over the years because of the rarity of the record. He probably recouped the cost after a year or two I would imagine.

Ian D

Do you honestly believe that Ian, cus most DJ bookings result in payment that only just about covers travelling costs and a few drinks, if you're lucky maybe a hotel room and meal.

I doubt many, if any, of Kennys bookings resulted in him making any decent profit to chip away at the original outlay for that record.

He probably did get loads of bookings on the back of it, and I bet he ended up getting mighty p*ssed off at taking up most weekends being inundated with DJing at every corner of the country at every oldies event imaginable.......bet his life was like Groundhog Day for the first 6 months at least

Edited July 10, 2011 by Mace

[Northern Soul Uk]

A good DJ will keep an eye on the dancefloor and see what they are dancing to, while at the same time working out what would follow the record that is on best to keep the floor as busy as possible.

A lot of DJs don't even bother looking at the dancefloor at all, but have their heads buried in their record boxes or trying to work out which slider on the mixer to use to put the volume up for the next record.

PSR (pre set routines) are a bad idea IMO, as if you have only taken the records with you for the set you have planned, what happens if the set doesn't work and you have nothing to fall back on? Disaster! Play to the crowd is what every good DJ should do.

If you are being paid as a DJ, you are being paid as an entertainer, and should do your utmost to entertain the people that have paid to come to the event. You can play the tunes that no one knows at home to yourself unless you are 100% sure that if you play an unknown, it will definitely work, I am all in favour of educating a crowd also so the odd unknown is good, but make sure it is sandwiched between 2 known tracks so if the unknown doesn't work, the floor will only be quiet for a matter of minutes. All common sense really!

Edited July 10, 2011 by steveLuigi

[Ian Dewhirst]

Firstly l am not talking about so called top flight european gigs (what are they ?) am talking about top british nighters

the small guys and the big guys compliment one another NOT COMPETE listen to records with your ears not the price

kenny burrell who by the way is a personal friend and a decent chap dj,d at burnley once......and he absolutely bombed even though he played the likes of the mello souls and he underestimated the vibe at this particular club massively.

you need nowt to seperate you from anyone if the vibe of the night is a collective responsability of the dj,s wether they have the rarer one off,s or not. Your whole argument is based purely on rarity and value...............NOT GOING OUT TO HAVE A KICKING NIGHT..........this is the difference between collectors views and folk going out to enjoy themselves..........tezza

When I said top flight European gigs I was obviously including the UK but really talking about the UK names that I regularly see advertised at Northern gigs throughout Europe (Germany and Italy mainly) as well as the UK. I doubt very much that they'd be booked if they didn't have boxes of expensive 'to die for' tunes though. You may as well get a local Joe Blow who has a decent box of tunes at a tenth of the cost if that were the case.

Far be it from me to argue about rarity and value. I think most of it is nuts personally and that was one of the points of the thread. Also, in my experience there are stacks of DJ's/Collectors out there with good taste but are they necessarily gonna pull in the crowds without some incredibly rare records?

Make no mistake, I ONLY go out to have a kicking night LOL. Some of the worst nights I've been to have been where there's zero atmosphere and an empty dancefloor except for a gaggle of chin-strokers admiring impossibly rare records which isn't my idea of fun by any means. Gimme a buzzing club packed to the brim with good people plus some rare tunes and I'm a happy bunny.

Long time since I've been to Burnley though. Last time was Burnley Cricket Club in the mid 70's and that was always fun on a Tuesday night!

Ian D

[Guest Bearsy]

A good DJ will keep an eye on the dancefloor and see what they are dancing to, while at the same time working out what would follow the record that is on best to keep the floor as busy as possible.

A lot of DJs don't even bother looking at the dancefloor at all, but have their heads buried in their record boxes or trying to work out which slider on the mixer to use to put the volume up for the next record.

PSR (pre set routines) are a bad idea IMO, as if you have only taken the records with you for the set you have planned, what happens if the set doesn't work and you have nothing to fall back on? Disaster! Play to the crowd is what every good DJ should do.

If you are being paid as a DJ, you are being paid as an entertainer, and should do your utmost to entertain the people that have paid to come to the event. You can play the tunes that no one knows at home to yourself unless you are 100% sure that if you play an unknown, it will definitely work, I am all in favour of educating a crowd also so the odd unknown is good, but make sure it is sandwiched between 2 known tracks so if the unknown doesn't work, the floor will only be quiet for a matter of minutes. All common sense really!

surely that depends on the venue and music policy, you seem to be talking about oldies nights and if so then just play oldies cos anyhting other than known oldies just wont work

[Len]

As Terry has pointed out, the money side of records should be of little importance, yes some are expensive but shouldn't be an issue, it's what they sound like. Obviously if something sounds great and is a bit rare it will have an extra 'Mystique' which adds to the FUN. Unfortunately, the price of a record is important to some people and I'd even go as far to say, in some cases if a record's expensive and is the latest 'Must have' they would buy it no matter what it sounds like.

I liked and agree with Terry's comment (Although dislike agreeing with Terry lol) about D.J's complimenting each other. I've always hated it on 'Look Backs' when people name the 'Winning D.J' It is not a competition!

A D.J should be passionate about what they're doing, learn from experience, have their own identity and not just 'Cherry pick' off other peoples play lists (I call them 'Cut 'n' Paste' D.J's) generally get to know the etiquette etc. I don't think a D.J needs to be as knowledgeable as a collector though but as Andy pointed out, they would need to have gained the respect of others.

I feel some D.J's may miss the fact that having the honour to play these lovely records at a venue is not all about them. The main talent is in the record and a DJ should be enjoying them along with everyone else at the venue. Don't get me wrong, of course there's a buzz to be had when you 'Connect' with a crowd because it's satisfying that you have done your job properly and been able to share the enjoyment you've had from your records (As discussed Val!)

Everyone has opinions about whether certain D.J's should be doing it or not - The only person that really knows this is the D.J himself. One example - If a D.J has stolen ideas from others and taken the credit, deep down they know they've done it. Remember - "It's more disheartening to have to steal than to be stolen from"

Answer to your original post is no, you shouldn't need loads of money to be a top northern soul D.J. There maybe a few 'Fast track' ones about with not a single original idea in their head, but don't write off all D.J's that happen to have expensive records before meeting them because then they become the victims of 'Inverted Snobbery'

All the best,

Len.

p.s - A good D.J should always carry at least five Midtempo records with them! J

p.p.s - It's not about a 'Packed' dance floor, it's about 'working' the dance floor, how else would new sounds get played?

[Guest Bearsy]

When I said top flight European gigs I was obviously including the UK but really talking about the UK names that I regularly see advertised at Northern gigs throughout Europe (Germany and Italy mainly) as well as the UK. I doubt very much that they'd be booked if they didn't have boxes of expensive 'to die for' tunes though. You may as well get a local Joe Blow who has a decent box of tunes at a tenth of the cost if that were the case.

Far be it from me to argue about rarity and value. I think most of it is nuts personally and that was one of the points of the thread. Also, in my experience there are stacks of DJ's/Collectors out there with good taste but are they necessarily gonna pull in the crowds without some incredibly rare records?

Make no mistake, I ONLY go out to have a kicking night LOL. Some of the worst nights I've been to have been where there's zero atmosphere and an empty dancefloor except for a gaggle of chin-strokers admiring impossibly rare records which isn't my idea of fun by any means. Gimme a buzzing club packed to the brim with good people plus some rare tunes and I'm a happy bunny.

Long time since I've been to Burnley though. Last time was Burnley Cricket Club in the mid 70's and that was always fun on a Tuesday night!

Ian D

sounds like your really regretting letting all your big records go all them years ago Ian, thing is most of the top jocks with big expensive records have been collecting since the year dot and have probably never sold up which makes it easier to attian the current biggies nowadays purely through trading etc

yep to be able to be known as a top dj you proabably do have to have some ot the top expensive tunes in your box but all the top djs aint just started from scratch have they, there are no short cuts and it would take money but aint it always been that way, buy to sell to make some record funds and buy and trade to get what you want and also have the ear and beleif that the tunes you buy for yourself are good enough to dj if djn is what it is all about for the person, me i buy for me and given the chance try to share whats hitting the spot for me whilst also trying to entertain but for me it takes more than a few tunes it takes personality and passion and a love for the music you beleieve in

[Kris Holmes]

youve obviously got more money then sense

you sound poor. So your answer to Ian's initial question must be "No". Let's just leave it at that because you aren't going to win an argument trying to affirm the playing of bootlegs to a crowd who kind of pride themselves on collecting originals.

[Ian Dewhirst]

Do you honestly believe that Ian, cus most DJ bookings result in payment that only just about covers travelling costs and a few drinks, if you're lucky maybe a hotel room and meal.

I doubt many if many, if any of Kennys bookings resulted in him making any decent profit to chip away at the original outlay for that record.

He probably did get loads of bookings on the back of it, and I bet he ended up getting mighty p*ssed off at taking up most weekends being inundated with DJing at every corner of the country at every oldies event imaginable.......bet his life was like Groundhog Day for the first 6 months at least

LOL, yeah but an average of, say, 3 or 4 bookings a week @ £150-£200 a pop can soon add up can't it? That's surely the way that most DJ's cover their overheads and record-buying. At least that's how it was back in the day.

Mind you, maybe that's the difference between now and then Mace. Back in the day a rare record might cost a week's wages, whereas these days it's more like a month's wages and DJ fees have probably dropped like a stone because everybody's a DJ these days.

I take your point about Kenny having a Groundhog day every gig though. I did a Samanthas revival in the 90's with Kenny and there was a long line of people all queuing up to get their photo with the rarest record ever LOL. Can you imagine having to go through that at every single gig? He'd have definitely made his money back quickly if he'd have charged a tenner a photo!

Ian D

[Northern Soul Uk]

surely that depends on the venue and music policy, you seem to be talking about oldies nights and if so then just play oldies cos anyhting other than known oldies just wont work

Not at all, aren't there records that everyone knows at R&U gigs? and new ones that the DJ might want to try out?

[Mace]

LOL, yeah but an average of, say, 3 or 4 bookings a week @ £150-£200 a pop can soon add up can't it? That's surely the way that most DJ's cover their overheads and record-buying. At least that's how it was back in the day.

Mind you, maybe that's the difference between now and then Mace. Back in the day a rare record might cost a week's wages, whereas these days it's more like a month's wages and DJ fees have probably dropped like a stone because everybody's a DJ these days.

I take your point about Kenny having a Groundhog day every gig though. I did a Samanthas revival in the 90's with Kenny and there was a long line of people all queuing up to get their photo with the rarest record ever LOL. Can you imagine having to go through that at every single gig? He'd have definitely made his money back quickly if he'd have charged a tenner a photo!

Ian D

An average of 3 or 4 bookings a week

Presume you mean doing 2 or more gigs on the same night.

Christ, I bet he gets cold sweats and a nervous twitch every time he hear that record nowadays

Charging for photos would have been a killer idea, or maybe getting 1500 people to sponser him a tenner each to melt the fcuker down might have given him quicker results, and maybe prevented his now regular nightmares of watching that record spinning on a deck

[Bitchdj]

you sound poor. So your answer to Ian's initial question must be "No". Let's just leave it at that because you aren't going to win an argument trying to affirm the playing of bootlegs to a crowd who kind of pride themselves on collecting originals.

It's not only him who's poor Kris , i think almost everyone who buys originals , certainly me included , are so obsessed with it that we spend whatever spare money we have. I've sold many thousands of £'s worth of records within the last month or two & have i banked the money ? , no , i've spent many thousands+ a bit more on records & am skint AGAIN. Collecting vinyl is as addictive as smoking , drinking , gambling etc. etc.

[Ian Dewhirst]

sounds like your really regretting letting all your big records go all them years ago Ian, thing is most of the top jocks with big expensive records have been collecting since the year dot and have probably never sold up which makes it easier to attian the current biggies nowadays purely through trading etc

Believe it or not I've never actually regretted selling any of my collections. I've gone through a few in my time and I just like building 'em up again, which was kinda possible in the 70's, 80's and some of the 90's but a bit of a stretch in the last 15 years or so. I'm just amazed at the prices really and thinking about what a huge financial commitment it must be these days to keep up in the rarified strata of big tune collecting. We go on about inflation and petrol prices all the time but this Northern Soul lark is in a whole different league innit?

How's your arse by the way?

Ian D

[Britmusicsoulfan]

Just a few thoughts from someone from the States who went from 0 to 4000 soul 45s in 3 years....

I'm still pretty new to the soul scene. It's been only about 4 years for me.

I buy and sell records online and have grabbed bits that have interested me that were in top-whack condition, or am keeping a rarer record in the hopes I'll find a better copy.

Right when I first started collecting, I realized that I just don't have the dosh for the big-ticket 45s. I've found tons of records that hit the spot for me that are mostly under $50.

I could never justify keeping some of the rare soul 45s that have passed through my hands. I've had the Second Resurrection 45 in my hands but decided I couldn't keep it.

I've been buying up originals, trading when I can, and it really comes down to being in the right place at the right time. I went to a record fair in May and found a chap that had added 4-5 150-count 45 boxes of new old stock. There was nothing incredibly rare there, but lots of records people would love to hear played out or that I enjoy.

I've found that, as others have echoed here, that some of the best records I've heard are the most common, but they hit the spot.

Cheers,

Tim

[Kris Holmes]

It's not only him who's poor Kris , i think almost everyone who buys originals , certainly me included , are so obsessed with it that we spend whatever spare money we have. I've sold many thousands of £'s worth of records within the last month or two & have i banked the money ? , no , i've spent many thousands+ a bit more on records & am skint AGAIN. Collecting vinyl is as addictive as smoking , drinking , gambling etc. etc.

you don't have to tell me, as i know all too well "you sound poor" is just a record collector's catch phrase when other collectors grizzle about price or make a point over how much someone else is spending, sort of an "in joke" when ribbing other collectors

[Guest]

you don't have to tell me, as i know all too well "you sound poor" is just a record collector's catch phrase when other collectors grizzle about price or make a point over how much someone else is spending, sort of an "in joke" when ribbing other collectors

Exactly

I am not a rich boy.

I work hard and put in fooking hours and hours of overtime for my hobby.

I spend all my spare time digging, chasing, listening to new things.

I am always after unknowns and forgotton things.

Thats what keeps collecting intresting.

I can't think of a better feeling when you get a fantastic record for a good price.

My taste is varied.

And I only buy what I like for ME ! I am not collecting records for anyone else !

Edited July 11, 2011 by dancecrasher

[Northern Soul Uk]

Just a few thoughts from someone from the States who went from 0 to 4000 soul 45s in 3 years....

I'm still pretty new to the soul scene. It's been only about 4 years for me.

I buy and sell records online and have grabbed bits that have interested me that were in top-whack condition, or am keeping a rarer record in the hopes I'll find a better copy.

Right when I first started collecting, I realized that I just don't have the dosh for the big-ticket 45s. I've found tons of records that hit the spot for me that are mostly under $50.

I could never justify keeping some of the rare soul 45s that have passed through my hands. I've had the Second Resurrection 45 in my hands but decided I couldn't keep it.

I've been buying up originals, trading when I can, and it really comes down to being in the right place at the right time. I went to a record fair in May and found a chap that had added 4-5 150-count 45 boxes of new old stock. There was nothing incredibly rare there, but lots of records people would love to hear played out or that I enjoy.

I've found that, as others have echoed here, that some of the best records I've heard are the most common, but they hit the spot.

Cheers,

Tim

Edited July 11, 2011 by steveLuigi

[Northern Soul Uk]

Exactly

I am not a rich boy.

I work hard and put in fooking hours and hours of overtime for my hobby.

I spend all my spare time digging, chasing, listening to new things.

I am always after unknowns and forgotton things.

Thats what keeps collecting intresting.

I can't think of a better feeling when you get a fantastic record for a good price.

My taste is varied.

And I only buy what I like for ME ! I am not collecting records for anyone else !

You are right, there nothing like the buzz of finding a new tune that's a belter, or an old tune at a good price.

A few oldies I have found at good prices are 'Apollas - Mr Creator - USA Warner Bros Demo - £25, Solomon King - This beautiful day - UK Parlaphone Demo - £50 and Pookie Hudson - This gets to me - USA 'Jamie' Gold and white - £19 (sold on for £112 eventually)

[Guest Bearsy]

Believe it or not I've never actually regretted selling any of my collections. I've gone through a few in my time and I just like building 'em up again, which was kinda possible in the 70's, 80's and some of the 90's but a bit of a stretch in the last 15 years or so. I'm just amazed at the prices really and thinking about what a huge financial commitment it must be these days to keep up in the rarified strata of big tune collecting. We go on about inflation and petrol prices all the time but this Northern Soul lark is in a whole different league innit?

How's your arse by the way?

Ian D

its had a weekend off Ian

forget about how much it would cost to buy a collection to be able to dj to be ""recognised"" if thats what this thread is about, What about how much the top djs collections would be worth if they decided to sell up is there anyone out there that had the spare cash to say buy Butch`s 200 playbox of any given nighter

[Guest NASHEE]

It's not only him who's poor Kris , i think almost everyone who buys originals , certainly me included , are so obsessed with it that we spend whatever spare money we have. I've sold many thousands of £'s worth of records within the last month or two & have i banked the money ? , no , i've spent many thousands+ a bit more on records & am skint AGAIN. Collecting vinyl is as addictive as smoking , drinking , gambling etc. etc.

Here Here Cookie...I sell to buy..but still end up spending money that I can ill afford to, even if it means starving for a week...not to buy big well known stuff...but because I want to buy a record that I love..

Record collecting is simply a part of my life..

As I'm sure everyone is aware...I'm not a northern dj...just a small fry R&B Popcorn Jock..but even then I only accept a booking if I know I'm gonna be playing to folk who appreciate what I play...For me a good DJ has to show love and pride in what they play..and have the ability to put a set records together to get the best dance floor reaction

If I won the lottery...yes I admit I would buy a couple of big ticket things...not to be a dick waver..but because theyre things I've always loved, that i could never hope to own in the real world, BUT most of my money would be spent (as It is now) on records that I love..

There's no better feeling in the world than buying a much loved tune...that cost a little...but makes your hair stand on end.

[Guest Bearsy]

Not at all, aren't there records that everyone knows at R&U gigs? and new ones that the DJ might want to try out?

i replied to your post about keeping an eye on the dance floor and making sure your doing your job as a dj and make sure it dont empty, thats what should happen at an oldies night,

at a R&U night you souldnt have to worry about the dance floor should should play those rare and underplayed gems YOU beleive in that are good enough, how the fook you gonna know if they are good enough if all you are thinking about is filling a dance floor and by doing that you be in that rut of an oldies dj, bolox to that and fook the dance floor you play what you believe in and if you do then i have a feeling the dance floor will get action if not blame the promoter for hiring you to dj

[Steve G]

LOL, yeah but an average of, say, 3 or 4 bookings a week @ £150-£200 a pop can soon add up can't it? That's surely the way that most DJ's cover their overheads and record-buying. At least that's how it was back in the day.

Mind you, maybe that's the difference between now and then Mace. Back in the day a rare record might cost a week's wages, whereas these days it's more like a month's wages and DJ fees have probably dropped like a stone because everybody's a DJ these days.

I take your point about Kenny having a Groundhog day every gig though. I did a Samanthas revival in the 90's with Kenny and there was a long line of people all queuing up to get their photo with the rarest record ever LOL. Can you imagine having to go through that at every single gig? He'd have definitely made his money back quickly if he'd have charged a tenner a photo!

Ian D

Strewth Ian. I cannot work out whether you are wanting to get back on the bus, or regretting ever getting off it in the first place, despite your post saying "je ne regret rien". You are beginning to sound like a big name 70s DJ who wants to make a comeback, but without the big cheque book / house re-mortage that the others had.

Let's disect the rest:

-3-4 bookings a week? Oh yeah right! Maybe in someone's front room. No one gets bookings like that.

-Records costing a weeks wages then versus now a month's wages. Rubbish on two counts - you can still get loads of great dancers cheap like the Admirations on OneDerFul for under a tenner (I just checked and it's there). And there are lot's of lesser known things you can seek out and get relatively cheaply. Second these so called "top sounds" ain't exactly lying around on peoples floors, so they ain't easy to source even if you have the dosh.

Back then in the 70s for most of the top DJs as much as it was about breaking new records, it was about having the then instant hits that the other jocks had - this weeks Wigan monster. I often think Wigan actually completely distorted the UK scene by it's dominance for so long. Nowdays, in terms of what gets played - if you exclude the "Teddy Boy" nights, it's much less predictable - of course there are the holy grails, but they tend to last a long time. As for owning things like Salvadors, Eddie Parker, Tomangoes, Del Larks, - if I was starting out as a DJ now, wouldn't want them, because someone in front of me will play 'em. I see this so often at venues where these monster oldies get played by the first available name DJ on the night, leaving the other "monster oldie" DJ's with 'em going ashen, and scrabbling around dusting off the cobwebs at the middle and back end of their playbox. Get something else to play, lead rather than follow.

- Frank Wilson, yeah the less said about that the better, I notice your comment was tongue in cheek so guess you agree it ain't the rarest by a long way - but it is the most HYPED record ever. I wonder what would have happened if Kenny didn't take it with him and told the punters "Nah am bored with it, left it at home".

Said it before, it's all about having a passion for the music, building a collection, buying what you like, learning, watching. etc. And pushing the envelope a bit - always put something new in. Stay away from the "Pollyfilla Principle" - i.e. buy what you like, not what you think you need to "fill the floor". That is why so many DJs are collectors first and DJ's second (again I exclude the handbag nights where it may be different). There simply is no short cut by trying to build a box of "Top of the Pops" hits.

So will we start to see you treading the boards again, or lingering in dark corners of the record areas at Niters such as Lifeline and the 100 Club, or are you going to remain "covered up" behind your keyboard firing off these 'damp squibs'?

Steve

[Winnie :-)]

i replied to your post about keeping an eye on the dance floor and making sure your doing your job as a dj and make sure it dont empty, thats what should happen at an oldies night,

at a R&U night you souldnt have to worry about the dance floor should should play those rare and underplayed gems YOU beleive in that are good enough, how the fook you gonna know if they are good enough if all you are thinking about is filling a dance floor and by doing that you be in that rut of an oldies dj, bolox to that and fook the dance floor you play what you believe in and if you do then i have a feeling the dance floor will get action if not blame the promoter for hiring you to dj

Seriously, is that the ethic of the upfront venues these days. I was at early lifeline nighters at Sheridans and then the Fox, don't recall that being the edict. 100 club regular for years, again never seen the dancefloor ignored, yeah you've got to believe in what you're playing, but if you take none or little notice of the dance floor then the bookings will, or should dry up. I'll be amazed if Andy D, Butch, Chalky or any of the other upfront DJs would hold this view??

Winnie

[Guest Bearsy]

Seriously, is that the ethic of the upfront venues these days. I was at early lifeline nighters at Sheridans and then the Fox, don't recall that being the edict. 100 club regular for years, again never seen the dancefloor ignored, yeah you've got to believe in what you're playing, but if you take none or little notice of the dance floor then the bookings will, or should dry up. I'll be amazed if Andy D, Butch, Chalky or any of the other upfront DJs would hold this view??

Winnie

i was refering to rare and underplayed nights where the ethos os to bring something new to the decks and not having the pressure of filling a dance floor, ie- we have a little nigth going on in Southamptom called Ghetto Soul and the emphasis is on the music and not the dance floor but guess what the dance floor gets plenty of action and peeps are non stop coming up to the decks asking what the fook was that i love it, it was a bit tongue in cheek as in "fook the dance floor" but if the dj beleives in his records then hopefully the dance floor will respond and if the dj then worries about the dance floor and has to resort to known stuff then that kind of takes away the underplayed part of the title of the night advertised, if your djn at a night where its all about the dance floor then yes the dj must play what the crowd want to dance too, if your totally ignorent to the dance floor then i agree you shouldnt be up there djn but it really can also depend on the event your djn at imho.

sorry if it came across i bit bulshy if you know what i mean