The Javells - Goodbye Nothin To Say

[Guest JIM BARRY]

the javelle's was a good sound back in the day, and if only just discovered would be a northern monster!!, it does what its supposed to, tap yer feet and get yer dancing, on the other subject put me down as a soul snob at soul events ovo all day long. in my house i'll listen to it on any format, by the way how does the ovo argument hold up when soulies either listen to the radio...internet or i pod.????

[Pete S]

Ah Pete, but it should work both ways.

I don't ridicule bootleg players so they should in turn keep their gobs shut about us record collectors. Instead of trying to bring everything down to the lowest common denominator.

Regards,

Dave

To be honest I don't like to see people playing endless pressings either but the places I go, if I ever go, are just local things where nobody really cares, if it were a decent venue of course I'd want to hear rare and original soul, I just think sometiomes it can all get a bit too serious, and like I said earlier, those days of 74-76 where all sorts of things were thrown into the mixer and played, they were great great days and nobody worried about labels too much.

Now where is my copy of Cat's Eyes, fancy giving it a spin.

[Steve L]

If you insist.Your'e a balding 50 year old soul chav.

I'm going to report you to a mod for a totally uneccessary, bile filled, over the top, assassination of my character

[Steve L]

I'm lost now am I a snob or a chav??

I thought I'd volunteered for snobery service

Edited July 6, 2011 by Steve L

[Pete S]

You've got to admit though, when you were going to venues back in the 70's, there'd always be certain individuals within your circle who you'd regard as 'divs' and thought you were way coller than. We had one, his name was Paul Clifford, boy would I love to know what happened to him.

[Pete S]

I'm lost now am I a snob or a chav??

I thought I'd volunteered for snobery service

Bit of both - you must be a chob.

[KevH]

You've got to admit though, when you were going to venues back in the 70's, there'd always be certain individuals within your circle who you'd regard as 'divs' and thought you were way coller than. We had one, his name was Paul Clifford, boy would I love to know what happened to him.

Opposite for me Pete.We were all divs, and had one cool guy with us.Used to herd us into Wigan with sheepdogs and a sharp stick.

[Steve L]

Bit of both - you must be a chob.

Chob it is

[Steve L]

Anyone got an opinion on Wayne Gibson??

[KevH]

Chob it is

Always a "Chob opening" for you mate..

[Phild]

soul snobs are those who look down on other soul fans who haven't got the money or the knowledge to amass a collection such as theirs then take the piss out of them for playing pressings of their (the soul snobs) originals. That's how I see it. A bit like how most of view chavs. Soul Chav. New name for them.

Not quite. Even chavs wear proper Burberry. I should know I've got a chav sister.

Their accents may be Mockney but their bling is all original labels

Edited July 6, 2011 by phild

[Pete S]

Always a "Chob opening" for you mate..

chuckling away here

[Steve L]

Always a "Chob opening" for you mate..

Div!

[Pete S]

Anyone got an opinion on Wayne Gibson??

I really like it. Not really as a Northern record, just like it as a version of The Stones song. It's a good song, apart from the misogyny, good dancer too. Was in the chart at the same time as the javells as well. I know this because I bought them both a week apart.

[Stevie]

I'll happily admit to dancing to the Javells. Those of us who attended the Casino in 1974 were mainly 16-18 years old and we just wanted to dance. Pointless trying to sweep it all under the carpet now - the Javells was popular at the time. The scene then was fast moving - a record might be played 5 times a night for 3 weeks and then never heard again. Most of us accepted it and enjoyed it for what it was.

On the issue of white artists I'm surprised Rufus Lumley hasn't been mentioned on either this or the locked thread. 'I'm Standing' was arguably the biggest white record of them all..

[KevH]

My name is Kev,and i also danced to the Javells at Wigan.

[Pete S]

I'll happily admit to dancing to the Javells. Those of us who attended the Casino in 1974 were mainly 16-18 years old and we just wanted to dance. Pointless trying to sweep it all under the carpet now - the Javells was popular at the time. The scene then was fast moving - a record might be played 5 times a night for 3 weeks and then never heard again. Most of us accepted it and enjoyed it for what it was.

On the issue of white artists I'm surprised Rufus Lumley hasn't been mentioned on either this or the locked thread. 'I'm Standing' was arguably the biggest white record of them all..

Interesting that nobody even suspected he was white until the RCA lp turned up at the end of the 70's.

[KevH]

Interesting that nobody even suspected he was white until the RCA lp turned up at the end of the 70's.

Or that his daughter would star opposite Jennifer Saunders in Ab Fab.

[Guest JIM BARRY]

My name is Kev,and i also danced to the Javells at Wigan.

HI KEV!!!

[Pete S]

Or that his daughter would star opposite Jennifer Saunders in Ab Fab.

His daughter was Nadia Sawahla???

[KevH]

His daughter was Nadia Sawahla???

Off topic!!!

[Guest gordon russell]

Anyone got an opinion on Wayne Gibson??

Didn,t someone ask butch to play this recently ? (can imagine his reply lol) bet he,s got a super rare dance version by ty karim lol :D ............think it was kev h from minefield

[Ian Dewhirst]

I'll happily admit to dancing to the Javells. Those of us who attended the Casino in 1974 were mainly 16-18 years old and we just wanted to dance. Pointless trying to sweep it all under the carpet now - the Javells was popular at the time. The scene then was fast moving - a record might be played 5 times a night for 3 weeks and then never heard again. Most of us accepted it and enjoyed it for what it was.

Totally correct. Records didn't hang around for long and there was always a demand for an 'instant' catchy memorable song that had that all important beat. Both Nosmo King/The Javells and Wayne Gibson both broke across the scene in a matter of weeks and virtually every venue played 'em 'cos they were huge records. The Javells was as big at the Mecca as it was at the Casino believe me.

I still like 'em both from a nostalgia point of view. They remind me of a brilliant time and packed dancefloors full of 16-20 year olds which was what the scene was built on back then.

Ian D

[Dave Moore]

But wasn't the name Nosmo King taken from a No Smoking sign?

I always thought that Mcaleer et al were responsible for this?

Either way, I'm afraid it gets the "Shyte then and shyte now" vote from me. Not because it's white, or pop or surrounded by 'dodgyness', but simply cos I thiok it's shyte.

Regards,

Dave

[Northern Soul Uk]

I'm not having a go at the 'Soul Snobs' if there is such a thing, I was stating a fact about what happened to me on one occasion.

I was also made aware of the term by a girl who suffers from chronic arthritis, who went to a venue and tried her best to dance, she noticed a crowd looking at her and laughing at the way she was dancing and described them as Soul Snobs, when they started dancing they were worse than her, so the term apparently goes further than record collectors.

What I'm saying is that there shouldn't be a devide between original collectors, and those that still love music and love playing it, but due to other commitments, can't afford originals.

I was one of the original Northern Soulies back in the late 60s early 70s going to the Torch and the Casino etc. I had all original records then because I had a disposable income, but things and situations change, but it doesn't mean that I love the music any less because all of my records aren't original now although I do have a lot of originals, but the ones I can't afford I will gladly buy a boot or a re-press just to own it and play it.

I suppose that there is bound to be such a divide though, as the folk that spend hundreds and sometimes thousands on a record, feel cheated when a record gets booted or re-pressed and anyone and his dog can then own it, so I do understand the argument.

Edited July 6, 2011 by steveLuigi

[Trev Thomas]

I'm not having a go at the 'Soul Snobs' if there is such a thing, I was stating a fact about what happened to me on one occasion.

I was also made aware of the term by a girl who suffers from chronic arthritis, who went to a venue and tried her best to dance, she noticed a crowd looking at her and laughing at the way she was dancing and described them as Soul Snobs, when they started dancing they were worse than her, so the term apparently goes further than record collectors.

What I'm saying is that there shouldn't be a devide between original collectors, and those that still love music and love playing it, but due to other commitments, can't afford originals.

I was one of the original Northern Soulies back in the late 60s early 70s going to the Torch and the Casino etc. I had all original records then because I had a disposable income, but things and situations change, but it doesn't mean that I love the music any less because all of my records aren't original now although I do have a lot of originals, but the ones I can't afford I will gladly buy a boot or a re-press just to own it and play it.

I suppose that there is bound to be such a divide though, as the folk that spend hundreds and sometimes thousands on a record, feel cheated when a record gets booted or re-pressed and anyone and his dog can then own it, so I do understand the argument.

by all means buy as many boots as you want, but dont run around claiming to be a dj if you dont have the originals, you're just like winstanley another old has been trying to cash in on former glories, now jog off back to the rave scene

[Sjclement]

Yes count me in as one of those dancers, being a bit of a record hound in those days I found the Nosmo King copy in a 2nd hand record shop in Birkenhead, this pleased be far more than the Solomon King This Beautiful Day that I found at the same time,(one was a floor packer the other I'd never heard played out but had it written down in my little black book ).

Miffed when it got reissued doubly so cos the reissue had the instrumental on the b side cleverly titled........ Nothing to Say!!!!!

BTW we all have our favourite record to hate mines Dance Dance Dance by the Casualeers only because of the amount of times I heard it during its peak

Edited July 7, 2011 by sjclement

[Mike Lofthouse]

But wasn't the name Nosmo King taken from a No Smoking sign?

I always thought that Mcaleer et al were responsible for this?

Either way, I'm afraid it gets the "Shyte then and shyte now" vote from me. Not because it's white, or pop or surrounded by 'dodgyness', but simply cos I thiok it's shyte.

Regards,

Dave

But hardly original, it was an old music hall act who used it first - H Vernon Watson - taken from a partially opened backstage door!

I think hindsight is a wonderful thing but it seems to me people take the music far more seriously now than they ever did then - it was just another record that came and went - was hyped a bit by the record company - and was no big deal. As many have pointed out it was a young persons scene with all sorts of mad and insane records being played and lapped up it was just part of that!

Mike

[Jim G]

I think hindsight is a wonderful thing but it seems to me people take the music far more seriously now than they ever did then - it was just another record that came and went - was hyped a bit by the record company - and was no big deal. As many have pointed out it was a young persons scene with all sorts of mad and insane records being played and lapped up it was just part of that!

Mike

Well I never expected my post to generate such a varied set of responses!

I think Mike's post (above) sums it up for me also, the Javells was just another record that was popular. It has got a bit of negative stigma attached to it because (allegedly) it was Pye who pushed it, but it was a "sound" back in the day.

So does it played out - probably not, but I have my copy to listen to, and yes I still like it, especially for the good memories it brings back for me from September 1974.

Lastly in response to another poster, not all people took drugs back then so I can't blame any pills for liking the record!

[Little-stevie]

Don't we all get in a tizzy, horses for courses and all that...

Peace and love.. xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

ps...

With Dave... Its firmly in the camp of was shite and still shite.... in my little humble opinion...

If this allowed then David Cassidy should be put into the hot box quick....

[Northern Soul Uk]

by all means buy as many boots as you want, but dont run around claiming to be a dj if you dont have the originals, you're just like winstanley another old has been trying to cash in on former glories, now jog off back to the rave scene

MMM? So you can't be a DJ if you don't have original records then?? Didn't know that! Sorry for my ignorance, but I thought DJing was all about being able to hold a crowd on the dance floor and try to make them enjoy a night in order to get them to return? My aplogies, but that being my theory for the last last 38 years of being a successful DJ has been wrong all along, Damn I'll have to re-think now!

As for the Rave scene, it was soooo close to the Northern scene in it's heyday than you will ever know if you weren't there, Kids travelling hundreds of miles to hear the tunes, taking gear and chatting all night and all with the love of the music, and some of them including myself paying hefty sums of money to have and play the records, sound familiar? The only thing that was different was the music. And the ironic thing is is that a lot of the tunes that i used to sell in my shops and play, are getting played on the modern Northern scene now i.e the deep Chicago House stuff etc. And to be honest, taking a trip to music further afield served it's purpose and made me realise that there is only one type of music for me, and here's a clue, it's not Rave!

Peace out!

Edited July 7, 2011 by steveLuigi

[Jim G]

by all means buy as many boots as you want, but dont run around claiming to be a dj if you dont have the originals, you're just like winstanley another old has been trying to cash in on former glories, now jog off back to the rave scene

This is off topic, but, I can't ignore it. If DJ's can only play "originals" then many venues should close right now! (and should have closed years ago). Yes the original vinyl is the ideal word, but they are limited in supply. How many DJ''s own originals of Gwen Owens, Don Gardner, The Parliaments, Eddie Parker, The Salvadors, and, dare I mention, Frank Wilson!

And how many would play them?

Does a legal re-issue meet the criteria of an "original"?

Now I am dropping the needle on my Javells again.....

[Northern Soul Uk]

This is off topic, but, I can't ignore it. If DJ's can only play "originals" then many venues should close right now! (and should have closed years ago). Yes the original vinyl is the ideal word, but they are limited in supply. How many DJ''s own originals of Gwen Owens, Don Gardner, The Parliaments, Eddie Parker, The Salvadors, and, dare I mention, Frank Wilson!

And how many would play them?

Does a legal re-issue meet the criteria of an "original"?

Now I am dropping the needle on my Javells again.....

I hope your Javells is original.

[Jim G]

I hope your Javells is original.

LMAF!!

It is the French Issue does that count

[Northern Soul Uk]

LMAF!!

It is the French Issue does that count

ERM?? OOH! not sure! does it have a frog on the cover?

[Trev Thomas]

This is off topic, but, I can't ignore it. If DJ's can only play "originals" then many venues should close right now! (and should have closed years ago). Yes the original vinyl is the ideal word, but they are limited in supply. How many DJ''s own originals of Gwen Owens, Don Gardner, The Parliaments, Eddie Parker, The Salvadors, and, dare I mention, Frank Wilson!

And how many would play them?

Does a legal re-issue meet the criteria of an "original"?

Now I am dropping the needle on my Javells again.....

i think you'll find quite a few dj's have these on original vinyl, if you want to hear them at a do then why not book a d.j who does have the originals instead of some tosser with a box of boots and casino classics

[Northern Soul Uk]

Edited July 7, 2011 by steveLuigi

[Trev Thomas]

MMM? So you can't be a DJ if you don't have original records then?? Didn't know that! Sorry for my ignorance, but I thought DJing was all about being able to hold a crowd on the dance floor and try to make them enjoy a night in order to get them to return? My aplogies, but that being my theory for the last last 38 years of being a successful DJ has been wrong all along, Damn I'll have to re-think now!

As for the Rave scene, it was soooo close to the Northern scene in it's heyday than you will ever know if you weren't there, Kids travelling hundreds of miles to hear the tunes, taking gear and chatting all night and all with the love of the music, and some of them including myself paying hefty sums of money to have and play the records, sound familiar? The only thing that was different was the music. And the ironic thing is is that a lot of the tunes that i used to sell in my shops and play, are getting played on the modern Northern scene now i.e the deep Chicago House stuff etc. And to be honest, taking a trip to music further afield served it's purpose and made me realise that there is only one type of music for me, and here's a clue, it's not Rave!

Peace out!

if you want to be taken seriously you do, i dont see arthur fenn , sam , butch , ginger , ady crosdale , or any of the other respected d.j.'s turning up at a venue playing boots, but i suppose you'll just carry on doing what you do, banging on to everyone what a top d.j. you were back in the day, funny, i dont see too many promoters falling over themselves to book you

[Russ Vickers]

MMM? So you can't be a DJ if you don't have original records then?? Didn't know that! Sorry for my ignorance.

I think thats a little porkie isnt it, on the REAL NS scene its everything & the punters care too.......

I'm personally sick to death of constantly trying to justify why boots shouldnt be played & being held up as some kinda anti christ, when we all know most of these folk are just tring to justify why they should DJ. I dont want to get personal with any one, its just my opinion after all, although I cant think of anyone I know that agrees with it.....however do you think Richard Searling, Pat Brady, Soul Sam etc from back in the day would think it was ok & would they have played an entire set of boots at Wigan etc..........do you think Butch, Andy Dyson etc play boots & think it would be alright for others to do so.........I'm not speaking on other peoples behalf BTW, but I would be shocked to the core if they were to advocate this shoddy practice..........its entirely about them selves DJing, nothing to do with soul music or anything else.

Steve sure your a very nice bloke & a very competant DJ but stop kidding ya self mate, if you dont have the originals dont play em.....you wanna DJ, DJ in a regular pub or club where people dont care about such things, you can play ya Kylie or whatever off what ever, it doesnt matter, on our scene it does & nothing will EVER change that EVER, people can come on SS & tell there little stories & quote there little anecdotes about how the dances dont care, blah, blah, blah..............well guess what...........its still wrong to only play bootlegs & reissues in ya set full stop.

The Javells was of its time, dont have any problems personally about records like these that were played back in the 7ts. But NS has evolved & there is no need to play these things now when there are so many better tunes to choose from IMHO.

Best Russ

Edited July 7, 2011 by Russ Vickers

[Jim G]

I started this topic and all I asked was "does it get played out anywhere these days"

And yes I know the scene has moved on, tons of records to choose from etc., I was only curious if it got played...

Maybe a simple "no" would have sufficed!

[Alan Bonthrone1]

Well I never expected my post to generate such a varied set of responses!

I think Mike's post (above) sums it up for me also, the Javells was just another record that was popular. It has got a bit of negative stigma attached to it because (allegedly) it was Pye who pushed it, but it was a "sound" back in the day.

So does it played out - probably not, but I have my copy to listen to, and yes I still like it, especially for the good memories it brings back for me from September 1974.

Lastly in response to another poster, not all people took drugs back then so I can't blame any pills for liking the record!

Mike Post Was Great.

[Northern Soul Uk]

The Javells was of its time, dont have any problems personally about records like these that were played back in the 7ts. But NS has evolved & there is no need to play these things now when there are so many better tunes to choose from IMHO.

I'm personally sick to death of constantly trying to justify why boots shouldnt be played & being held up as some kinda anti christ, when we all know most of these folk are just tring to justify why they should DJ. I dont want to get personal with any one, its just my opinion.....however do you think Richard Searling, Pat Brady, Soul Sam etc from back in the day would think it was ok & would they have played an entire set of boots at Wigan..........do you think Butch, Andy Dyson etc play boots & think it would be alright for others to do so.........I'm not speaking on other peoples behalf BTW, but I would be shocked to the core if they were to advocate this shoddy practice..........its entirely about them selves DJing, nothing to do with soul music or anything else.

Steve sure your a very nice bloke & a very competant DJ but stop kidding ya self mate, if you dont have the originals dont play em.....you wanna DJ, DJ in a regular pub or club where people dont care about such things, you can play ya Kylie or whatever off what ever,m it doesnt matter, on our scene it does & nothing will EVER change that EVER, people can come on SS & tell there little stories & quote there little anecdotes about how the dances dont care, blah, blah, blah..............well guess what...........its still wrong to play bootlegs & reissues in ya set full stop.

Best Russ

Fine! point taken! and thank you for the nice comments. Each to their own I know!

Hate arguing and try not to, but I am entitled to my opinion as is everyone like it or not.

As to the original topic question, Yes! I liked and still like the Javells, although I do not, or haven't played it in my sets for many years, but I still think in the right club with the right punters, it would still go down well.

I still don't see though that anyone can say it's wrong to play boots or re-presses, when there are VERY FAMOUS DJs out there playing CDs and MP3s, at least I have stuck to the vinyl and spend most of my leisure time hunting the tracks that I want, and buy them if I find them and if there is originals out there in my price range, I will buy them.

Love and Peace.

Edited July 7, 2011 by steveLuigi

[Pete S]

The Javells was of its time, dont have any problems personally about records like these that were played back in the 7ts. But NS has evolved & there is no need to play these things now when there are so many better tunes to choose from IMHO.

I'm personally sick to death of constantly trying to justify why boots shouldnt be played & being held up as some kinda anti christ, when we all know most of these folk are just tring to justify why they should DJ. I dont want to get personal with any one, its just my opinion.....however do you think Richard Searling, Pat Brady, Soul Sam etc from back in the day would think it was ok & would they have played an entire set of boots at Wigan..........do you think Butch, Andy Dyson etc play boots & think it would be alright for others to do so.........I'm not speaking on other peoples behalf BTW, but I would be shocked to the core if they were to advocate this shoddy practice..........its entirely about them selves DJing, nothing to do with soul music or anything else.

Steve sure your a very nice bloke & a very competant DJ but stop kidding ya self mate, if you dont have the originals dont play em.....you wanna DJ, DJ in a regular pub or club where people dont care about such things, you can play ya Kylie or whatever off what ever,m it doesnt matter, on our scene it does & nothing will EVER change that EVER, people can come on SS & tell there little stories & quote there little anecdotes about how the dances dont care, blah, blah, blah..............well guess what...........its still wrong to play bootlegs & reissues in ya set full stop.

Best Russ

I know it's only a moot point in the grans scheme of things Russ but all those top dj's played off emidiscs as part of their set, in another topic I was actually recalling buying an emidisc of Sam straight out of his play box, he used to get them from Rob Lythall of leicester. Remember keith Minshull, big room mainstay for many years, emi's everywhere.

[Steve L]

I started this topic and all I asked was "does it get played out anywhere these days"

And yes I know the scene has moved on, tons of records to choose from etc., I was only curious if it got played...

Maybe a simple "no" would have sufficed!

But then things wouldnt have been so interesting over the last couple of days Jim

[Steve L]

MMM? So you can't be a DJ if you don't have original records then??

er... No, if you havent got the records dont put yourself forward as a DJ, leave it to those who have em

[Russ Vickers]

This is off topic, but, I can't ignore it. If DJ's can only play "originals" then many venues should close right now! (and should have closed years ago). Yes the original vinyl is the ideal word, but they are limited in supply. How many DJ''s own originals of Gwen Owens, Don Gardner, The Parliaments, Eddie Parker, The Salvadors, and, dare I mention, Frank Wilson!

And how many would play them?

Does a legal re-issue meet the criteria of an "original"?

Now I am dropping the needle on my Javells again.....

You've hit the nail squarely on the head, play boots close down, this is the reason why we have so many crap events that add nothing to the scene, but massage the egos of the promoters & wannabe DJ's who book each other & support each others events, yes they should have been shut down & this would actually help the scene massively. Anyhoo, most will bugger off soon anyway like they did before.....

Best Russ

[Russ Vickers]

I know it's only a moot point in the grans scheme of things Russ but all those top dj's played off emidiscs as part of their set, in another topic I was actually recalling buying an emidisc of Sam straight out of his play box, he used to get them from Rob Lythall of leicester. Remember keith Minshull, big room mainstay for many years, emi's everywhere.

Strangely, I knew you would post that Pete, I do think however it is a slightly different thing.

Best Russ

[Russ Vickers]

Just sat here thinking to my self why the hell do I continually get myself mixed up in these debates on SS. It doesnt effect me personally because these kind of events wouldnt be where I would personally choose to go, nor are my soul mates involved or particularly interested in the topic in more, it isnt really discussed at all - its just a given.

Boots, carvers & EMI Discs have always been played on the scene to some extent & for the vast majority of this time I spose I was blissfully unaware of the fact. But there does seem to be another dimension to all of this these days. Years ago it was accepted that at youth club do's & your little local events bootlegs would be played alongside everything else & no one cared, least of all me. the events & DJ's however were not trying to be anything that they wernt.....everyone wants to be a DJ or promoter now & will almost go to any lengths to achieve this, so to me the playing of bootlegs at these kind of events is not acceptable, as most are passing themselves off as mainstream events where IMO on the whole originals should be played.

I'm tired of discussing it, cos to me its obvious & as I said earlier a given, which almost doesnt need to be debated, up until releatively recently because we all knew it was wrong........apparently the goal posts have changed & because I point this obvious fact out I'm demonised & branded a soul snob.

My modest collection has taken years & years to amass, I have saved, lied (to the wife), visited the US, nurtured friendships with dealers & record savvy friends, dug long, deep & hard, wheeled, dealed & scoured the earth for soul records & the hours & money I have spent are incalcuble. Occasionally I am lucky enough to share these records through DJing...........& apparently all i needed to do was say sorry its too difficult for one reason or another to play originals, but heres a boot that I could have secured in seconds on any given day of the week forever.

Thats why I continue to get involved in these debates. Now it would really make my day, if some one came on here & said OMG I understand now, dont think I'll do that any more, but it aint gonna happen is it.

Russ

Edited July 7, 2011 by Russ Vickers

[Northern Soul Uk]

Just sat here thinking to my self why the hell do I continually get myself mixed up in these debates on SS. It doesnt effect me personally because these kind of events wouldnt be where I would personally choose to go, nor are my soul mates involved or particularly interested in the topic in more, it isnt really discussed at all - its just a given.

Boots, carvers & EMI Discs have always been played on the scene to some extent & for the vast majority of this time I spose I was blissfully unaware of the fact. But there does seem to be another dimension to all of this these days. Years ago it was accepted that at youth club do's & your little local events bootlegs would be played alongside everything else & no one cared, least of all me. the events & DJ's however were not trying to be anything that they wernt.....everyone wants to be a DJ or promoter now & will almost go to any lengths to achieve this, so to me the playing of bootlegs at these kind of events is not acceptable, as most are passing themselves off as mainstream events where IMO on the whole originals should be played.

I'm tired of discussing it, cos to me its obvious & as I said earlier a given, which almost doesnt need to be debated, up until releatively recently because we all knew it was wrong........apparently the goal posts have changed & because I point this obvious fact out I'm demonised & branded a soul snob.

My modest collection has taken years & years to amass, I have saved, lied (to the wife), visited the US, nurtured friendships with dealers & record savvy friends, dug long, deep & hard, wheeled, dealed & scoured the earth for soul records & the hours & money I have spent are incalcuble. Occasionally I am lucky enough to share these records through DJing...........& apparently all i needed to do was say sorry its too difficult for one reason or another to play originals, but heres a boot that I could have secured in seconds on any given day of the week forever.

Thats why I continue to get involved in these debates. Now it would really make my day, if some one came on here & said OMG I understand now, dont think I'll do that any more, but it aint gonna happen is it.

Russ

Russ I already have expressed my understanding of the points you make in an earlier post, as i said then there will always be an argument for and against boots etc. It's the nature of the scene, and if it wasn't for these arguments, people wouldn't know or understand the points made.

I appreciate the fact that you have put countless time and money into your collection, and as far as I'm concerned you and other collectors of your ilk should be appreciated, as if it wasn't for them and yourself buying and playing these originals out and making them popular, there wouldn't be a market for the bootleggers.

This is my way of saying that I can see both sides of the argument, we all love and live the same music, and that is what the scene has been built on over the years.

Respect

Steve

[Russ Vickers]

Russ I already have expressed my understanding of the points you make in an earlier post, as i said then there will always be an argument for and against boots etc. It's the nature of the scene, and if it wasn't for these arguments, people wouldn't know or understand the points made.

I appreciate the fact that you have put countless time and money into your collection, and as far as I'm concerned you and other collectors of your ilk should be appreciated, as if it wasn't for them and yourself buying and playing these originals out and making them popular, there wouldn't be a market for the bootleggers.

This is my way of saying that I can see both sides of the argument, we all love and live the same music, and that is what the scene has been built on over the years.

Respect

Steve

Thank you.

Russ