Cleaning Acetates - How?

[Amsterdam Russ]

Bearing in mind the fragility of acetates, trying to find a practical means of cleaning them is not something that you'd readily want to experiment with. Spirit/alcohol based solutions are out of the question, so what works?

Anyone had any success in cleaning them?

[tosspot]

wish i knew the answer to this tricky problem , i just don't over play mine, think vampires come out in the day more than i take any of my acetates out

[Amsterdam Russ]

Likewise, mine rarely see the light of day and typically get played once so that I can record them digitally.

With a number of them I can't help but think that much of the crackles come from dirt rather than any real deterioration of the lacquer itself. I wonder if they can stand up to luke warm water and washing up liquid, but just don't want to risk it!

[Guest sharmo 1]

You two worry too much I use plain old fairy liquid about two dot's and warm water go in the direction of the cut and rub with a clean dry duster Rob knows I've got a few of these and I've alway's used the same techneque .Si.

[Ernie Andrews]

I use plain warm water and cotton buds and lightly sweep with the grooves

[Rbman]

If you are referring to the first cutting of the disc (a metal base with a thin layer added of a compound of cellulose nitrate) from the final studio tape then these were never meant for repeat play...in fact after about half a dozen "plays" they are due for the bin! No amount of fairy liquid or cotton buds will restore it.

If you have in your hands a "one off" studio acetate (as they are often called) that never made it to a vinyl press then have it recorded and saved to CD or a vinyl cut so you can then hear it as many times as you like without hurting the original.

Edited July 2, 2011 by Rbman

[Louise]

If you are referring to the first cutting of the disc (a metal base with a thin layer added of a compound of cellulose nitrate) from the final studio tape then these were never meant for repeat play...in fact after about half a dozen "plays" there are due for the bin! No amount of fairy liquid or cotton buds will restore it.

If you have in your hands a "one off" studio acetate (as they are often called) that never made it to a vinyl press then have it recorded and saved to CD or a vinyl cut so you can then hear it as many times as you like without hurting the original.

So what your saying Martyn is Vim is out of the question then?

Dave

[Rbman]

So what your saying Martyn is Vim is out of the question then?

Dave

Can you still buy VIM?...they stopped selling that down this way some two decades ago......still got Ajax though...brings all my acetates up a treat...if fact got rid of all that horrid black stuff and they are nice bright shiny metal now.....

Joking aside Dave, with your ventures into record production have you been along and seen the full journey from studio tape to vinyl disc?

[Louise]

Can you still buy VIM?...they stopped selling that down this way some two decades ago......still got Ajax though...brings all my acetates up a treat...if fact got rid of all that horrid black stuff and they are nice bright shiny metal now.....

Joking aside Dave, with your ventures into record production have you been along and seen the full journey from studio tape to vinyl disc?

No mate too busy chasing people who owe me money like you

Seriously though I think it depends on how the original owner of the actates has stored them as to how they play and as previously mentioned cotton wool and fairy liquid seem to be the safest bet

Dave

[Ernie Andrews]

If you are referring to the first cutting of the disc (a metal base with a thin layer added of a compound of cellulose nitrate) from the final studio tape then these were never meant for repeat play...in fact after about half a dozen "plays" they are due for the bin! No amount of fairy liquid or cotton buds will restore it.

If you have in your hands a "one off" studio acetate (as they are often called) that never made it to a vinyl press then have it recorded and saved to CD or a vinyl cut so you can then hear it as many times as you like without hurting the original.

WEll it works for me and Ive played one of my acetates nearly a hundred times and it still performs excellently.

I got an acetate from the states that was in very dirty poor condition which after cleaning performed much better!

[Guest sharmo 1]

Rbman I don't think it was about acetate restoration I think it was about getting crud out the grooves mate.regards Simon.

[Guest]

While were here what's best cleaner for these ?

[Dave Abbott]

T-Cut

[Pete S]

If you are referring to the first cutting of the disc (a metal base with a thin layer added of a compound of cellulose nitrate) from the final studio tape then these were never meant for repeat play...in fact after about half a dozen "plays" they are due for the bin! No amount of fairy liquid or cotton buds will restore it.

If you have in your hands a "one off" studio acetate (as they are often called) that never made it to a vinyl press then have it recorded and saved to CD or a vinyl cut so you can then hear it as many times as you like without hurting the original.

I'm afraid that's rubbish, I've had acetates I've played literally hundreds of times with little or no deterioration in sound, that acetate I cut from my original of Monique, I've played that at every dj spot I've ever done and it still sounds perfect.

[Guest Lobster Madras]

I'm afraid that's rubbish, I've had acetates I've played literally hundreds of times with little or no deterioration in sound, that acetate I cut from my original of Monique, I've played that at every dj spot I've ever done and it still sounds perfect.

I agree Pete as some acetates seem to wear very well, which raises the question of are some harder wearing than others ?

Most of the acetates the guys at Music house got hold of seemed to last for ages like the 60s studio originals; think its more a case of what they are played on, really...

I've got a couple of 70s emidiscs that have gone so quiet and dull with play you have to crank the volume right up !

Shit stylus with heavy or bad tracking will surely be worse for an acetate, much like a styrene disc gets destroyed by cueing up too much and rewinding....

Edited July 2, 2011 by Lobster Madras

[Guest]

I'm sure you can get extra lacquer or something on em' when they are first made for extra money to make em' last longer ? well not sure really but think i read this somewhere.

[Amsterdam Russ]

I'm sure that the quality of the chemical mix that makes the lacquer adds to durability/stability or lack of it. From my experience acetate quality - just like vinyl or styrene - varies immensely. I recently picked up a 45 year old Four Tops acetate and it sounded as if it had never been played. At the other end of the scale, I have a couple of them the same age where the lacquer is falling off like some sort of acetate alopecia.

However, it's the ones that fall in between - the ones that might just possibly be improved by some sort of gentle cleaning - that I'm more interested in. It's not about restoration, it's about finding ways of cleaning foreign gunk out of the grooves.

A diluted mix of washing-up liquid and water, or just plain water, appears to be the preferred 'solution'. I did find a recommendation online to use distilled water for cleaning, which makes a lot of sense. All I have to do now is experiment to see what works! Now, which acetate should it be first?

[Rbman]

I'm afraid that's rubbish, I've had acetates I've played literally hundreds of times with little or no deterioration in sound, that acetate I cut from my original of Monique, I've played that at every dj spot I've ever done and it still sounds perfect.

I now wonder how many people actually know what a first cut actually is.....the first cut would have been played once or maybe twice to see if it reached the production quality desired. From there it would have gone to the pressing plant to make the female and male for the stamper. How many so called "acetates" are the true first cut?

have a look at this and follow to part 2...

Edited July 3, 2011 by Rbman

[Amsterdam Russ]

Rbman - that doesn't help answer the questions I asked, does it?

Got lots of insights about the manufacturing processes of records? Great - please share it, but not here. I'm asking for specific advise and please respect that.

Thanks...

[Rbman]

Rbman - that doesn't help answer the questions I asked, does it?

Got lots of insights about the manufacturing processes of records? Great - please share it, but not here. I'm asking for specific advise and please respect that.

Thanks...

Use Vim or T-Cut..........and play often.....

[Amsterdam Russ]

Sorry, that just doesn't help.

On topic advice only, please.

There must be others with acetates in their collection who know that these things are irrevocably deteriorating - and who must have thought about preserving them in the longer term.

Acetates have existed as long as the pressing of records has, so some effort must have been spent in the preservation of what at times is the least preserved part of the whole process!

Edited July 3, 2011 by rigilbert

[boba]

I think preserving vs. cleaning is two different questions.

If the acetate is not flaking, you can at the minimum rub the grooves with your finger (not fingernail) under running water. You can also go over it with a toothbrush and some soapy water and then rinse it with running water and put it in a rack to dry.

I'm guessing part of the reason old acetates are dying might have less to do with how they were cut and more to do with how they were stored and what conditions they were exposed to. unfortunately i don't know the ideal conditions for preserving acetates.

[Kris Holmes]

I've had a bit of experience with acetates. If you want to clean them just do it with luke warm water, dishwash liquid & a soft toothbrush, rinse & then dry. Unfortunately if the lacquer has deteriorated no cleaning will help the acetate play better. In theory, many of the common types of acetates you come across would have played perfectly for years if people had used sensible cartridge weights/turntable setup. The reason they would wear out fast is because of the brutal nature of many playback systems back in the day. If you had a brand new acetate & played it only on a well setup modern turntable it will last for hundreds of plays at least.

[Pete S]

I now wonder how many people actually know what a first cut actually is.....the first cut would have been played once or maybe twice to see if it reached the production quality desired. From there it would have gone to the pressing plant to make the female and male for the stamper. How many so called "acetates" are the true first cut?

have a look at this and follow to part 2...

I know they cut 3 or 4 test acetates but these are the ones we're talking about - and the only way they get damaged is if they aren't looked after.

[De-to]

wood glue,!!!

[purist]

The best advice I ever got came via a Guy record hunting tale. When he told me about how he'd got the various Stafford era acetates (M.Move, Backstreets, etc) he told me that when visiting george Mcgregor he'd taken him down to his basement and he'd got these acetates stuffed behind some water pipes. He ran them under the tap and played them, whilst still wet, and Guy said he was both thrilled and horrified in equal amounts. Thrilled at these awesome unknown tunes, but horrified at how George was treating them.

When he asked George why he was so rough with these discs he said words to the effect of ' dont let them dry out, and damp them regularly. If theyre dirty wash them with soft washing soap'.

Ever since then I damp my acetates regularly whenever I remember, and, touch wood, none has started to flake any worse than they were when i got them ( some were pretty bad and flaking a lot, and if they are too bad you just have to accept they cant be saved and bin them) I use old fashioned block soft soap ( the sort that comes in a bar that yer nan used for hand washing clothes with a washboard) and luke warm tap water to clean them, which I do when i first get them home, but hardly ever after ( unless there's some reason to clean them, but cant see what purpose regular cleaning serves ?)

I think keeping them in card or paper sleeves, or wrapped in newspaper (as George McGregors were according to Guy) will help dry the moisture out of them, but its not really a hardship to damp them is it? I have always made myself sleeves out of card to fit the various oddball sizes, easiest is to cut down a 12" disco sleeve if you've got an 8" for example (yes this is where you insert your own funny one liner

hth

[boba]

wood glue cleaning works on vinyl, it's probably one of the worst things you can do to an acetate unless you're trying to pull it off the metal

[Guest sharmo 1]

Hi there going back to John's (purist) piece on keeping the acetates damp it suddenly dawned on me that years ago I read a book about the government may have been spy catcher , it said ( and I'm working from memory here ) that the government's recording's were all done on 24 inch acetate's at 16 rpm , they used acetates at the time so they could put chalk markers on parts of the conversation they needed for referance .I'm sure that it said in the book that they had massive walk in humadores that are used commercially for large cigar storage to store the acetates in to keep them in good condition.see ya S.

[Guest]

Hi there going back to John's (purist) piece on keeping the acetates damp it suddenly dawned on me that years ago I read a book about the government may have been spy catcher , it said ( and I'm working from memory here ) that the government's recording's were all done on 24 inch acetate's at 16 rpm , they used acetates at the time so they could put chalk markers on parts of the conversation they needed for referance .I'm sure that it said in the book that they had massive walk in humadores that are used commercially for large cigar storage to store the acetates in to keep them in good condition.see ya S.

Bet they need a massive record player got some Canadian lps that are 16 and a bit rpm.

[Amsterdam Russ]

...keeping the acetates damp...

That's definitely not a problem. I moved from London to the Netherlands nearly four years ago and if there's just one thing I can tell you about the country it's that it's always damp!