Pete S Posted June 16, 2011 Posted June 16, 2011 https://cgi.ebay.co.uk/JAMES-BARNETT-KEEP-TALKING-FAME-CLASSIC-NORTHERN-/190543392733?pt=UK_Records&hash=item2c5d456fdd £132 when I last looked
Guest julesp1905 Posted June 17, 2011 Posted June 17, 2011 Think someone is going to be disappointed, very vague description from the seller, though i always thought the first rule of collecting anything is to research your subject, the fella has paid £132, and will get what he's paid for, James Barnett on Fame. Crocked Seller or Idiot Buyer, think it's more the latter!
Guest MrC Posted June 17, 2011 Posted June 17, 2011 https://cgi.ebay.co.u...=item2c5d456fdd £132 when I last looked Saw a pressing go for £49 on ebay 2 weeks ago too, it was on my watch list while it was only a fiver!
dthedrug Posted June 19, 2011 Posted June 19, 2011 HI ALL ....After the BROWN DOOR - Ma rvin Holmes thread, which has concluded now? that there was no BOOTLEGS, We are now looking at another issue that has caused many red faces over the years, when I had my original box stolen at St Ives in 76 it had a red copy of this excellent record in it, alas today and for many years just have the blue copy, and as i say it is the blue one that seems to be a problem, as I am 100% sure that the blue copy never existed in the 60s, but until 3 weeks ago I was also sure, 100% sure that apart from the plastic copy i have of Marvin Holmes all other copays were re pressings not original issues, The BLUE FAME copies look good in fact they play OK, but I would say value wise, £20 but are we wrong, I say that they are not original. So on that basis I concluded that 1, after having a red copy. you feel that you are right and will always be right. (snobbish view point) 2. my mate MICK SMITH SAYS SO!. Following on from the BROWN DOOR thread, what is the history of the BLUE FAMES James Baronet Copy. and have we mugged our selves over the years. As for the one on Ebay , over the years I have seen records being sold for, both to high and to low, Bobby Hutton UK ABC sold for £150, i have 3 spares, the history behind BOOTLEGS RE PRESSINGS would be a good read, like~ did you know Jeff King had Demo copies of SOUL SOUNDS label made?? DAVE KIL
Sean Hampsey Posted June 19, 2011 Posted June 19, 2011 did you know Jeff King had Demo copies of SOUL SOUNDS label made?? DAVE KIL Really Dave? Have you got one? What do they look like? Sean
dthedrug Posted June 19, 2011 Posted June 19, 2011 scans? HI ALL THE SOUL SOUNDS LABEL IS A MUST COMPLETE THING TO DO, ESPECIALLY IN BETWEEN TRYING TO LOCATE THE RARE STUFF LIKE A BUNKY COPY OF JUST LIKE THE WEATHER?? I NO SOMEONE WHO'S GOT ONE???? MT SOUL SOUNDS DEMO IS IN IT'S OWN WAY MY CONTRIBUTION TO THE WEEK THAT DISCLOSURES WHERE MADE? I ONLY NO OF 2 OTHERS ON THE LABEL, BUT THERE ARE IN THEORY 29, TO LOCATE, The marks are of my scenner, i will clean it, the records are mint, DAVE
Sean Hampsey Posted June 19, 2011 Posted June 19, 2011 Hi Dave, Thanks for the scan. I remember seeing this (or one like it) on eBay 2-3 years ago. Looks to me more like a Test Pressing (not for circulation) rather than a Demonstration or Promo Copy. Got to be a rare one and as a Soul Sounds completist, I'd like one! Thanks a bunch. Sean
Guest TONY ROUNCE Posted June 19, 2011 Posted June 19, 2011 you can get a real one for that price ...you could get MY real one for that price, in fact! ...give or take a couple of quid...
Trev Thomas Posted June 19, 2011 Posted June 19, 2011 i bought an original white demo 3 weeks ago off dave thorley for 80 quid
Guest gordon russell Posted June 19, 2011 Posted June 19, 2011 the fault will always lay with the buyer as there are umteen avenues one can go down to check a record out if unsure.............this site being just one of em
dthedrug Posted June 19, 2011 Posted June 19, 2011 Hi Dave, Thanks for the scan. I remember seeing this (or one like it) on Eba 2-3 years ago. Looks to me more like a Test Pressing (not for circulation) rather than a Demonstration or Promo Copy. Got to be a rare one and as a Soul Sounds completest, I'd like one! Thanks a bunch. Sean HI ALL SEAN IT SOMETIMES AMAZES ME THAT ITEMS LIKE THIS ARE NOT SNAPPED UP! YOU SAW THIS ALRIGHT, SO DID ROY GELDER, I AM GLAD YOU DID NOT BID, IT WAS ROY WHO TOLD ME AT WOLVES RECORD FAIR THAT THE SAME PERSON SOLD 2 OTHERS A WEEK BEFORE THIS ONE, OF COARSE I CONTACTED THE SELLER, HE DID NOT HAVE CLUE ABOUT RECORDS COLLECTING SOUL NOTHING, HE HAD NO MORE AND HE COME ACROSS THEM ON A LOCAL MARKET SALE. ABOUT THE DEMOS i THINK THE ARE THE ORIGINAL COPIES AS THE MATRIX HAS BEEN RUBBED OUT PROFESSIONALLY, THEY ARE DEFO UK PRESSINGS FROM A PHILIP'S STAMPER. THE GIVE AWAY SIGNS ARE TAKE ANY COPY THE LABEL IS A UK SIZE AMID IT LEAVES EXACTLY ENOUGH SPACE FOR THE ANTI SLIP TO BE PUT ON, AND ALSO THE WHO EVER PRESSED THE OP COULD NOT GET OUT OF THE HABIT OF SCRATCHING THE A B SIDES, I LIKE TO THINK THEY WERE DONE AT ISLAND PRESSING PLANT AND AS THE SUE LABEL FINISHED & THE LAUNCH OF ACTION, A ASSOCIATE OF Mr KIG WHO NEW A MAN WHO WORKED AT THE PLANT, CLEARLY JOHN ABBEY WOULD NOT ENTERTAIN THIS REQUEST, SO IT.S ANORTHER, NOT DAVE GODIN?, IT IS POSSIBLE GUY STEVENS, WITH CHRIS BLACKWELLS OK! LET THEM GO THROUGH, AS THE ORDER COMES TO AROUND 10000 COPIES, SO THIS OPERATION WAS A BUSINESS DEAL FULL ON, NOT SOME ROMANTIC DEALER DOING IT, TO KEEP THE FAITH, NOW THAT EXPLAINS A LOT, I BET I AM NOT FAR OUT, AS I HAVE ISLAND RECORDS PRESSINGS OF ALL KINDS, HENCE THE PORNO DISC, DAVE
Sean Hampsey Posted June 19, 2011 Posted June 19, 2011 HI ALL SEAN IT SOMETIMES AMAZES ME THAT ITEMS LIKE THIS ARE NOT SNAPPED UP! YOU SAW THIS ALRIGHT, SO DID ROY GELDER, I AM GLAD YOU DID NOT BID, IT WAS ROY WHO TOLD ME AT WOLVES RECORD FAIR THAT THE SAME PERSON SOLD 2 OTHERS A WEEK BEFORE THIS ONE, OF COARSE I CONTACTED THE SELLER, HE DID NOT HAVE CLUE ABOUT RECORDS COLLECTING SOUL NOTHING, HE HAD NO MORE AND HE COME ACROSS THEM ON A LOCAL MARKET SALE. ABOUT THE DEMOS i THINK THE ARE THE ORIGINAL COPIES AS THE MATRIX HAS BEEN RUBBED OUT PROFESSIONALLY, THEY ARE DEFO UK PRESSINGS FROM A PHILIP'S STAMPER. THE GIVE AWAY SIGNS ARE TAKE ANY COPY THE LABEL IS A UK SIZE AMID IT LEAVES EXACTLY ENOUGH SPACE FOR THE ANTI SLIP TO BE PUT ON, AND ALSO THE WHO EVER PRESSED THE OP COULD NOT GET OUT OF THE HABIT OF SCRATCHING THE A B SIDES, I LIKE TO THINK THEY WERE DONE AT ISLAND PRESSING PLANT AND AS THE SUE LABEL FINISHED & THE LAUNCH OF ACTION, A ASSOCIATE OF Mr KIG WHO NEW A MAN WHO WORKED AT THE PLANT, CLEARLY JOHN ABBEY WOULD NOT ENTERTAIN THIS REQUEST, SO IT.S ANORTHER, NOT DAVE GODIN?, IT IS POSSIBLE GUY STEVENS, WITH CHRIS BLACKWELLS OK! LET THEM GO THROUGH, AS THE ORDER COMES TO AROUND 10000 COPIES, SO THIS OPERATION WAS A BUSINESS DEAL FULL ON, NOT SOME ROMANTIC DEALER DOING IT, TO KEEP THE FAITH, NOW THAT EXPLAINS A LOT, I BET I AM NOT FAR OUT, AS I HAVE ISLAND RECORDS PRESSINGS OF ALL KINDS, HENCE THE PORNO DISC, DAVE Hi Dave, I think it must have been one of the many I meant to bid on but didn't get around to . Definitely remember seeing it somewhere. As for the pressing plant, I was always under the impression they came from the same source as the President & JayBoy 45's - whichever that was? Great piece of NS history for sure. Cheers, Sean
Guest TONY ROUNCE Posted June 19, 2011 Posted June 19, 2011 ...There WAS no 'Island Pressing Plant' - all of Island's pressing was either done by Philips at their Walthamstow plant (the commercial stuff like Traffic, Mott The Hoople etc.) or Orlake's in Dagenham (ska, rocksteady and reggae, after about 1966) although there was some crossover of musical styles between the two pressing plants. The pressings of either/both are nothing like any Soul Sounds pressings, which have rather more in common with the records that were mastered and manufactured by Lyntone in North London (although I'm not sure that they were...)
Guest TONY ROUNCE Posted June 19, 2011 Posted June 19, 2011 Oh yes, and Guy Stevens stopped working for Sue in 1966, a good three-four years before the Soul Sounds series appeared....
dthedrug Posted June 19, 2011 Posted June 19, 2011 Oh yes, and Guy Stevens stopped working for Sue in 1966, a good three-four years before the Soul Sounds series appeared.... HI ALL TONY STOP BEING SO NEGATIVE BOY! I SAID, "I LIKE TO BELIEVE" I WAS NOT SPEAKING AS SOME EXPERT ON THE SUBJECT, IT'S PLAUSIBLE IF YOU THINK ABOUT IT, THAT MEANS TAKE OF YOUR CRITICAL PARENT HEAD, AND USE YOUR FREE CHILD ONE INSTEAD, island RECORDS AT THAT TIME, WERE IN THE PROCESS OF CHANGE, IN THE MUSIC INDUSTRY THE NAME OF THE GAME IS MAKE AS MUCH MONEY AS YOU CAN, YOU NO THAT, WHEN I DID MY SMALL BIT, YOU SOON FIND OUT THAT IT;S ALL LINKED TOGETHER IT HAS TO BE, AS WE ALL NO IT'S TUFF AT THE TOP, AND THERE IS NO BETTER EXAMPLE THAN IN THE WORLD OF ENTERTAINMENT! FOR THE RECORD i DON'T NO JEFF KING, BUT I DO HAVE A LITTLE EXPERIENCE OF WORKING WITH ISLANDS STUDIO EQPT AND IF Mr KING USED ISLANDS FACILITIES TO MANUFACTURE EMI s PRODUCT ON THE SCALE HE DID IT MUST HAVE HAD THE NOD FROM SOMEONE, THE DISC'S LOOK SO MUCH LIKE A PHILIP'S PRODUCT TO ME, IF I AM WRONG I AM WRONG, I DON'T KNOW, BUT ISLAND RECORDS AT THAT TIME WITH ALL THE LABELS THAT COME FROM THEM ADVERTS RUGBY SONGS PORNO JINGLES REGGAE AND THE LAUNCH OF THE PINK LABEL EVERY ONE HELPED WE ALL KNOW THE ISLAND STORY, I AM JUST SPICING IT UP, AND GUY STEVENS HAD LEFT SUE AND JOHN ABBEY TOOK ON THE TAIL END OF SUE AND THEN STARTED ACTION, BUT DID GUY STEVENS TOTALLY LEAVE CHRIS BLACKWELL, AND ISLAND, I DO NO HE TOOK LOADS OF ACID AND BECOME RECLUSIVE, BUT HE WAS ALWAYS IN TOUCH, AND DID VERY WELL POST 75, AND ALL THE WORK WITH THAT PUNK BAND THE CLASH, HE WAS OFTEN SCENE IN THE 100 CLUB AND THE ROXY, YOU CAN TAKE THE KID OUT OF THE VENUE? BUT YOU CANT TAKE THE VENUE OUT OF THE KID, BY THE WAY THE RECORDING EQPT USED WAS A 3 TRACK AMPEX, AND ONE DAY I WILL TELL YOU HOW WE DESTROYED 3 SPOOLS OF PRINCE BUSTERS SESSION TO RECORD THE TANNER HILL WEAVERS, A NICE SCOTCH FOLK BAND DAVE "THE ENTERTAINER"
Guest Paul Posted June 19, 2011 Posted June 19, 2011 HI ALL TONY STOP BEING SO NEGATIVE BOY! I SAID, "I LIKE TO BELIEVE" I WAS NOT SPEAKING AS SOME EXPERT ON THE SUBJECT, IT'S PLAUSIBLE IF YOU THINK ABOUT IT, THAT MEANS TAKE OF YOUR CRITICAL PARENT HEAD, AND USE YOUR FREE CHILD ONE INSTEAD, island RECORDS AT THAT TIME, WERE IN THE PROCESS OF CHANGE, IN THE MUSIC INDUSTRY THE NAME OF THE GAME IS MAKE AS MUCH MONEY AS YOU CAN, YOU NO THAT, WHEN I DID MY SMALL BIT, YOU SOON FIND OUT THAT IT;S ALL LINKED TOGETHER IT HAS TO BE, AS WE ALL NO IT'S TUFF AT THE TOP, AND THERE IS NO BETTER EXAMPLE THAN IN THE WORLD OF ENTERTAINMENT! FOR THE RECORD i DON'T NO JEFF KING, BUT I DO HAVE A LITTLE EXPERIENCE OF WORKING WITH ISLANDS STUDIO EQPT AND IF Mr KING USED ISLANDS FACILITIES TO MANUFACTURE EMI s PRODUCT ON THE SCALE HE DID IT MUST HAVE HAD THE NOD FROM SOMEONE, THE DISC'S LOOK SO MUCH LIKE A PHILIP'S PRODUCT TO ME, IF I AM WRONG I AM WRONG, I DON'T KNOW, BUT ISLAND RECORDS AT THAT TIME WITH ALL THE LABELS THAT COME FROM THEM ADVERTS RUGBY SONGS PORNO JINGLES REGGAE AND THE LAUNCH OF THE PINK LABEL EVERY ONE HELPED WE ALL KNOW THE ISLAND STORY, I AM JUST SPICING IT UP, AND GUY STEVENS HAD LEFT SUE AND JOHN ABBEY TOOK ON THE TAIL END OF SUE AND THEN STARTED ACTION, BUT DID GUY STEVENS TOTALLY LEAVE CHRIS BLACKWELL, AND ISLAND, I DO NO HE TOOK LOADS OF ACID AND BECOME RECLUSIVE, BUT HE WAS ALWAYS IN TOUCH, AND DID VERY WELL POST 75, AND ALL THE WORK WITH THAT PUNK BAND THE CLASH, HE WAS OFTEN SCENE IN THE 100 CLUB AND THE ROXY, YOU CAN TAKE THE KID OUT OF THE VENUE? BUT YOU CANT TAKE THE VENUE OUT OF THE KID, BY THE WAY THE RECORDING EQPT USED WAS A 3 TRACK AMPEX, AND ONE DAY I WILL TELL YOU HOW WE DESTROYED 3 SPOOLS OF PRINCE BUSTERS SESSION TO RECORD THE TANNER HILL WEAVERS, A NICE SCOTCH FOLK BAND DAVE "THE ENTERTAINER" Interesting, Dave, but noneof the people mentioned had any involvement with cutting rooms and pressing plants, other than as customers (or employees of customers) of course. I'm sure we've discussed this before and I suggested, as Tony has, that the Soul Sounds, BJD and La Coupe singles were cut at Lyntone and probably pressed by Lyntone, maybe using the old British Homophone plant. To press records you don't need to know any particular characters, all you need is the money and - in most cases - proof that you're pressing something which you own (or have a license for) and a mechanical license. But, quite often, people have been able to press unlicensed records either by fraud or by getting someone to turn a blind eye. The money does the talking sometimes. Paul
Prophonics 2029 Posted June 20, 2011 Posted June 20, 2011 old British Homophone plant. What's this Paul ? is that the correct spelling.
Guest Paul Posted June 20, 2011 Posted June 20, 2011 old British Homophone plant. What's this Paul ? is that the correct spelling. Ha ha, yes that's the correct spelling, and they had nothing to do with homos or phones (as far as I know).
Prophonics 2029 Posted June 20, 2011 Posted June 20, 2011 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homophone I am even more confused after reading this. Lol
Guest Paul Posted June 20, 2011 Posted June 20, 2011 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homophone I am even more confused after reading this. Lol Looks like it's all about homos and heteros. They're everywhere these days.
dthedrug Posted June 20, 2011 Posted June 20, 2011 Interesting, Dave, but none of the people mentioned had any involvement with cutting rooms and pressing plants, other than as customers (or employees of customers) of course. I'm sure we've discussed this before and I suggested, as Tony has, that the Soul Sounds, BJD and La Coupe singles were cut at Lyntone and probably pressed by Lyntone, maybe using the old British Homophone plant. To press records you don't need to know any particular characters, all you need is the money and - in most cases - proof that you're pressing something which you own (or have a license for) and a mechanical license. But, quite often, people have been able to press unlicensed records either by fraud or by getting someone to turn a blind eye. The money does the talking sometimes. Paul HI PAUL AND EVEY ONE ELSE, Can I state or reiterate it was a romantic notion of mine on how it come about, it's not true I made it up, I was f**king about having a loon! however it is plausible, I do disagree with you about it only needs money, it also needs willing agent to take the risk of pressing up 29 different records, 28 licensed to EMI under copyright, and it was the late 60s when EMI was at the top of it's game, AL ISLAND RECORDS did have it's own pressing plant, However Tony is right and I got it wrong about them being PHILLIPS PRESSED you would think after 40 yores I would know better (it's all those bloody pills i have necked) any way Island also had contract pressing plants, more to the point How many Test Pressings are known and what is the hardest SOUL SOUND RECORD to get? RESTLESS was mine Keith Minshal was Dobbie Grey out on the floor, I will keep it real for a bit??? DAVE A NORTH HEARTS GANGSTER! it's true I tells ya!
Pete S Posted June 20, 2011 Author Posted June 20, 2011 Interesting, Dave, but noneof the people mentioned had any involvement with cutting rooms and pressing plants, other than as customers (or employees of customers) of course. I'm sure we've discussed this before and I suggested, as Tony has, that the Soul Sounds, BJD and La Coupe singles were cut at Lyntone and probably pressed by Lyntone, maybe using the old British Homophone plant. To press records you don't need to know any particular characters, all you need is the money and - in most cases - proof that you're pressing something which you own (or have a license for) and a mechanical license. But, quite often, people have been able to press unlicensed records either by fraud or by getting someone to turn a blind eye. The money does the talking sometimes. Paul Wherever Jayboy and President records were pressed, so were Soul Sounds...
dthedrug Posted June 20, 2011 Posted June 20, 2011 Wherever Jayboy and President records were pressed, so were Soul Sounds... HI PETE APPARENTLY I HAD KNOWN THIS FOR YEARS, BUT I FORGOT, SO I COME UP WITH THE GUY STEVENS THING? A FEW TEARS AGO ALONG WITH THE STORY OF THE "NIGHT" inst, and the Impressions "you been cheat-in" you no how board you become at a Allister, but wiyj all my story's when i am board there is always lots of very real facts in them to make them plausible, or shall I say a good probability to them and as Mick will state some of the crap is very true, like the Diane Brooks semi instrumental "in my heart" that Mick has had since 1972 and many others, As to the link with President and Jeff King what is the full story that surrounds the SOUL SOUNDS label?? and as I have stated ISLAND did have there own pressing plant and it was shut down in the 80s fact, Before we end this does Jason Knight "our love getting stronger exist on a Blue PYE label?? It's again a plausible outcome that it must off, and I am sure Andy Spencer had one, I remember when I got a stock copy of Rufus Lummley of him, i went to his house when he was selling up, Ted said no, but has anyone seen a copy, it could of been a Irish copy of the reissue, but again has anyone seen one??? DAVE
Guest Paul Posted June 20, 2011 Posted June 20, 2011 (edited) Wherever Jayboy and President records were pressed, so were Soul Sounds... Hello Pete, It was the same plant, Lyntone, but I also suspected it could have been British Homophone because, as I already said, sometimes lacquers would be cut by one and pressed by the other, depending on capacity. Lyntone had the exclusive license to make flexidiscs in the UK but I think they sometimes got regular vinyl pressings done elsewhere, especially large orders. Does anyone have any history on Lyntone's factory? If it was Lyntone's own plant, then it's obvious that President discs were pressed at Lyntone until Kassner bought the British Homophone plant. If not, then it's possible that both Lyntone and President had been using the British Homophone plant. It would obviously help if I knew exactly when Ed Kassner bought British Homophone - maybe I should ask Dave Kassner about it? Would it be correct to say that most of the Soul Sounds, Greenlight, BJD and La Coupe stuff was issued in 1970? Before Kassner bought the plant he'd used it as a customer and had joint-venture labels (such as Rhapsody) with the owner of British Homophone. Kassner sold the plant to Eddy Grant in the late 1970s, as part of a settlement I think. At that time, trading as Ice Records, the place was in poor condition and quality control was non-existent. They closed in the early 1980s when Grant moved overseas. I pressed a record there in 1979. After that, another company operated the plant for a while but went into receivership. A friend of mine was pressing a record there at that time and the place was suddenly padlocked up and he couldn't get access to his masters and metalwork etc. so he cancelled the release. By the way, the offices of Charly Records later occupied part of the British Homophone site so it has some history. As I said in another post, we won't know for sure unless Jeff King or someone provides some info. One possible theory is that Jeff King knew someone at President Records (after all, he was a record dealer) and he asked them to get his bootlegs pressed - using the Lyntone or British Homophone plants. It's true that both plants got into trouble from time to time for pressing bootlegs, against their knowledge they always claimed. Paul THIS POST HAS BEEN EDITED AND MORE DETAILS ADDED Edited June 21, 2011 by Paul
Guest Paul Posted June 20, 2011 Posted June 20, 2011 HI PAUL AND EVEY ONE ELSE, Can I state or reiterate it was a romantic notion of mine on how it come about, it's not true I made it up, I was f**king about having a loon! however it is plausible, I do disagree with you about it only needs money, it also needs willing agent to take the risk of pressing up 29 different records, 28 licensed to EMI under copyright, and it was the late 60s when EMI was at the top of it's game, AL ISLAND RECORDS did have it's own pressing plant, However Tony is right and I got it wrong about them being PHILLIPS PRESSED you would think after 40 yores I would know better (it's all those bloody pills i have necked) any way Island also had contract pressing plants, more to the point How many Test Pressings are known and what is the hardest SOUL SOUND RECORD to get? RESTLESS was mine Keith Minshal was Dobbie Grey out on the floor, I will keep it real for a bit??? DAVE A NORTH HEARTS GANGSTER! it's true I tells ya! Hello Dave, I doubt anyone at Lyntone (or other small indie plants) would be aware of who had rights to those relatively osbcure masters and they probably weren't very concerned because they were focused on keeping their plant working to full capacity. The margins at pressing plants has always been small so they need to have all presses running day and night if they can. And it's possible that Jeff King (or whoever ordered the pressings) showed Lyntone documents to convince them he had the right to those masters. It wouldn't be the first time people had used fake paperwork tro get a record pressed. But I really think it's about money (and sometimes having a willing contact at the plant). Another possibility is that the bootlegs were cut at Lyntone but pressed elsewhere. In that case, the cutting room would need catalogue numbers and durations but not necessarily any artist or title information. And there's also a chance that Jeff King (or whoever) used a broker who in turn used Lyntone, another thing to consider. But the only way we'll know is if someone gets Jeff King to discuss it. Paul
Guest TONY ROUNCE Posted June 20, 2011 Posted June 20, 2011 HI PETE APPARENTLY I HAD KNOWN THIS FOR YEARS, BUT I FORGOT, SO I COME UP WITH THE GUY STEVENS THING? A FEW TEARS AGO ALONG WITH THE STORY OF THE "NIGHT" inst, and the Impressions "you been cheat-in" you no how board you become at a Allister, but wiyj all my story's when i am board there is always lots of very real facts in them to make them plausible, or shall I say a good probability to them and as Mick will state some of the crap is very true, like the Diane Brooks semi instrumental "in my heart" that Mick has had since 1972 and many others, As to the link with President and Jeff King what is the full story that surrounds the SOUL SOUNDS label?? and as I have stated ISLAND did have there own pressing plant and it was shut down in the 80s fact, Before we end this does Jason Knight "our love getting stronger exist on a Blue PYE label?? It's again a plausible outcome that it must off, and I am sure Andy Spencer had one, I remember when I got a stock copy of Rufus Lummley of him, i went to his house when he was selling up, Ted said no, but has anyone seen a copy, it could of been a Irish copy of the reissue, but again has anyone seen one??? DAVE Dave - Please believe me when I tell you that Island have NEVER owned their own pressing plant. And that IS a fact... Early doors they were pressend by British Homophone, Mid 60s they were pressed - as stated above, by Orlake's and Philips. From about 1969 throughout the 70s and well into the 80s they were pressed by EMI . After Chris Blackwell sold Island to Universal and founded Palm Pictures, Island was once again manudactured by what had now beocme the successor to Philips, Phonogram and Polygram, At no time whatsoever did they own these or any other pressing plants. I am not just typing this because I like to hear the sound of my fingertips connecting with a PC keyboard. I am typing it because it's the truth as it happened, not as might have been imagined or wished for. I'm done with this conversation now... Cheers, TONY
Pete S Posted June 20, 2011 Author Posted June 20, 2011 (edited) Dave - Please believe me when I tell you that Island have NEVER owned their own pressing plant. And that IS a fact... Early doors they were pressend by British Homophone, Mid 60s they were pressed - as stated above, by Orlake's and Philips. From about 1969 throughout the 70s and well into the 80s they were pressed by EMI . After Chris Blackwell sold Island to Universal and founded Palm Pictures, Island was once again manudactured by what had now beocme the successor to Philips, Phonogram and Polygram, At no time whatsoever did they own these or any other pressing plants. I am not just typing this because I like to hear the sound of my fingertips connecting with a PC keyboard. I am typing it because it's the truth as it happened, not as might have been imagined or wished for. I'm done with this conversation now... Cheers, TONY Tony, while you're here, could I just ask you a question? In the 60's, did Island have their own pressing plant? Edited June 20, 2011 by Pete S
Guest Paul Posted June 20, 2011 Posted June 20, 2011 Tony, while you're here, could I just ask you a question? In the 60's, did Island have their own pressing plant?
Guest julesp1905 Posted June 20, 2011 Posted June 20, 2011 Tony, while you're here, could I just ask you a question? In the 60's, did Island have their own pressing plant? Wasn't the island pressing plant in Cork or was it Derry?
dthedrug Posted June 21, 2011 Posted June 21, 2011 (edited) Dave - Please believe me when I tell you that Island have NEVER owned their own pressing plant. And that IS a fact... Early doors they were pressend by British Homophone, Mid 60s they were pressed - as stated above, by Orlake's and Philips. From about 1969 throughout the 70s and well into the 80s they were pressed by EMI . After Chris Blackwell sold Island to Universal and founded Palm Pictures, Island was once again manufactured by what had now become the successor to Philips, Phonogram and Polygram, At no time whatsoever did they own these or any other pressing plants. I am not just typing this because I like to hear the sound of my fingertips connecting with a PC keyboard. I am typing it because it's the truth as it happened, not as might have been imagined or wished for. I'm done with this conversation now... Cheers, TONY HI TONY OF COURSE I BELIEVE YOU AND I GOT IT WRONG, HOWEVER, EVEN THOUGH I AM AGREEING WITH YOU, I WILL WRIGHT A BIT ON THE SUBJECT IN A NEW THREAD, AS YOU MAY KNOW MY MEMORY IS A BIT FLAKY, AND I USE 1000 WORDS WHEN 25 CAN ACHIEVE THE SAME RESULT, AND I THEN WELCOME ALL CONSTRUCTIVE CRITICISM AND NEW INFO ON THIS, I BELIEVE TO BE AN IMPORTANT PART IN THE HISTORY OF OUR SCENE WE ARE SO PASSIONATE ABOUT, AND PETE YOU HAVE GOT SOME "UPDOC" ON YOU! CHEERS EARS DAVE THE FLAKE!! Edited June 21, 2011 by dthedrug
Guest Paul Posted June 21, 2011 Posted June 21, 2011 (edited) Hello Pete, It was the same plant, Lyntone, but I also suspected it could have been British Homophone because, as I already said, sometimes lacquers would be cut by one and pressed by the other, depending on capacity. Lyntone had the exclusive license to make flexidiscs in the UK but I think they sometimes got regular vinyl pressings done elsewhere, especially large orders. Does anyone have any history on Lyntone's factory? If it was Lyntone's own plant, then it's obvious that President discs were pressed at Lyntone until Kassner bought the British Homophone plant. If not, then it's possible that both Lyntone and President had been using the British Homophone plant. It would obviously help if I knew exactly when Ed Kassner bought British Homophone - maybe I should ask Dave Kassner about it? Would it be correct to say that most of the Soul Sounds, Greenlight, BJD and La Coupe stuff was issued in 1970? Before Kassner bought the plant he'd used it as a customer and had joint-venture labels (such as Rhapsody) with the owner of British Homophone. Kassner sold the plant to Eddy Grant in the late 1970s, as part of a settlement I think. At that time, trading as Ice Records, the place was in poor condition and quality control was non-existent. They closed in the early 1980s when Grant moved overseas. I pressed a record there in 1979. After that, another company operated the plant for a while but went into receivership. A friend of mine was pressing a record there at that time and the place was suddenly padlocked up and he couldn't get access to his masters and metalwork etc. so he cancelled the release. By the way, the offices of Charly Records later occupied part of the British Homophone site so it has some history. As I said in another post, we won't know for sure unless Jeff King or someone provides some info. One possible theory is that Jeff King knew someone at President Records (after all, he was a record dealer) and he asked them to get his bootlegs pressed - using the Lyntone or British Homophone plants. It's true that both plants got into trouble from time to time for pressing bootlegs, against their knowledge they always claimed. Paul THIS POST HAS BEEN EDITED AND MORE DETAILS ADDED The above post has been edited, more details added. Can anyone confirm approx when the Soul Sounds bootlegs were issued ? And I realise we've all gone off-topic, maybe we should copy this to another thread ? Paul Edited June 21, 2011 by Paul
Guest TONY ROUNCE Posted June 22, 2011 Posted June 22, 2011 (edited) President (and the first couple of Jay Boy) Records were pressed exclusively at Orlake's until they had the #1 with the re-promoted Equals 45 'Baby Come Back'. Orlake's seems to disappear from the picture at that point. 'Baby Come Back' hit #1 here in July 1968, so British Homophone/Lyntone must come into the President frame in the Summer of '68... Edited June 22, 2011 by TONY ROUNCE
dthedrug Posted June 22, 2011 Posted June 22, 2011 HI ALL BEFORE I OR ANYONE STARTS THIS ONGOING SAGA REGARDING THE ISSUES OF SOUL SOUNDS RECORD LABEL IN A NEW THREAD, WHICH WOULD BE BETTER FOR EVERTONE ALL ROUND, BECAUSE THE DISCUSSION IS HID AWAY FROM EVERYONE WHO DOES NOT READ THE THREAD ON JAMES BARNETT? BEFORE I DO THAT, I HAVE SPENT THE LAST 2 DAYS, LOOKING AT AS MANY DIFFERENT ANDIE LABELS IN MY COLLECTION, PLUS I HAVE BEEN ON THE BELL TO SEVERAL COLLECTORS, THAT DO NOT USE THIS SITE BUT ARE KNOWN BY SOME OF YOU IN PARTICULAR TONY AS THEY ARE IN LONDON, I HAVE THE GREATEST RESPECT FOR EVERYBODY'S POINT OF VIEW ABOUT ALL ASPECTS AND KNOWLEDGE ABOUT THE HISTORY OF THE SOUL SOUNDS LABEL, WHAT HAS CONCERNED ME IS THAT ALTHOUGH I WAS WRONG (I THINK ) ABOUT THE INFO THAT i GAVE, AFTER GOING THROUGH MY RECORDS WHICH INCLUDED, EVERY SOUL SOUND RECORD (FULL LIST IS ON ONE OF JOHN MANSHIPS GUIDES, AND MAYBE ON OTHER GUIDES AS WELL!) I NEED TO NO WHERE YOUR INFORMATION COME FROM WITH REGRADES, THEY ARE PRESIDENT PRESSINGS , APART FROM YOUR SAY SO, WHAT ARE YOUR FACTS THAT MAKES YOU CERTAIN, MY RESEARCH INTO THIS AREA ABOUT RECORDS, AND TO BE TRUTHFUL IT'S AN AREA AS FAR AS I AM CONCERNED APART FROM THE QUESTION RELATING TO ALL EARLY BOOTLEGS MEANS NOTHING AND ADDS NOTHING TO THE VALUE OF UK SOUL PRESSINGS, AND ONLY OF REAL INTEREST TO HARD CORE COLLECTORS AND ANORAK'S, FOR THE PURPOSE OF THIS ARTICLE I WILL & DO SEE YOU ALL AS THE FORMER, AS THE SAYING GOES "IT'''S WHAT@S IN THE GROOVE THAT COUNTS (EXCEPT FOR PRESSINGS FROM A LATER TIME. MY FINDINGS ARE THESE:- 1. EVERY ONE OF THE COPIES #101 - 130 HAVE ALL COME FROM THE SAME PLANT, AS I HAVE PUT THE COLLECTION TOGETHER OVER A LONG PERIOD OF TIME, AND A FEW YEARS ON FROM MY GUESSTIMATED PERIOD THAT Mr KING PRESSING ARRANGEMENTS AND LOOKING AT DISTRIBUTION, I HAVE COME UP WITH THIS AUTUMN 68 PRESSING STARTED WITH THE 1ST RUN AND THE WHOLE LIST SUBMITTED ALONG WITH THE TAPES, I RECKON IT HAD TO BE THIS WAY AS THE LABELS COME IN 8 WHITE, 7 GREEN 5 YELLOW, & 9 ORANGE, IN A RANDOM ORDER. SO IT SAFE TO SAY EVERY THING WAS IN PLACE BY THE END OF 68. 2. THE BIG QUESTION ON THE TAPE USED ESPECIALLY SS101 LEON HAYWOOD, THE TOP RECORD IN 69 AT THE WHEEL, I WOULD SAY THAT THE RECORD SOUND QUALITY WAS EXCEL ANT ON THE AVERAGE RECORD PLAYER BACK THEN AND IS NOT AS BAD AS B&S WROTE ABOUT, SO WHO'S COPY DID JFK USE?? WITH ALL THE OTHER RECORDS iI CAN ALMOST SEE THE CHARACTERS WHO HAD THEM BUT AT A GUESS THEY COME FROM MANCHESTER, BLACKPOOL, NOTTINGHAM & LEICESTER, AND MAY HAVE A CONNECTION WITH REDEFUSION OR AND SELECTOR GI SC, I HAVE ELIMINATED OTHER OUTLETS. 3. UNLESS YOU CAN SEE SOMETHING THAT I CANT, AND YOU ALL SEEM TO AGREE, THAT THEY COME FROM PRESIDENT, UNLESS YOU CAN PROVE IT, I RECKON YOU ARE WRONG, FOR THE FOLLOWING REASONS, (a) There are many stampers and tell tale differences with all of the longer running labels, the President pressings from the late 68 period are similar but the are other records of the periob that are closer, President records from 1970 and on wards are closer and Jay Boy bot they are 69 and on wards, also my sources say no to the President as a outlet, unless you have proper knowledge about them being the Pressing Plant owners, again the info on the pressing plant is sketchy, but you may have all the info? (b) The next set of records that I trawled though was the Rita & Benny R&B Records & KING records, and it seems to me they used more than 1 stamper company as there are gaps in both labels at first glance like President they look right, however there are only a few titles that I have that are very close to the SOUL SOUNDS run, I will ust give a few examples, working of my records, they are:-R&B #JB160. 1964. and King #KG 1011, But the closer I look at them , even though they are sort of right, I thought they had used the Lyn tone pressing stampers but I think the are Islano Phillips pressed, where I don't know but quite a few shout out Phillips, other clues are again close but not close enough the RIO label all look at a quick glance very close, # R120 For example has no ridge ring and the right size and shape on how the matrix has been stamped in, as the SOUL SOUND LABEL, But again it shouts to me as a Island / Phillips pressed record, which leads me back to my original statement about a island connection and I looked at Island #WI-055 This is very close to the stamper but again it's a Island Phillip's on and on i have looked I ruled out GL INTERNATIONAL DIP RECORDS, AND THUS REMOVED LYN TONE which i was sure would be right, (ORLAKE) I JUST FEEL THAT THERE IS LESS OF A CONNECTION WITH THIS SET UP ALTHOUGH THEY PRESSED UP A LOT OF STUFF, AT THIS STAGE THE DON'T FIT IN WITH MY CONCLUSION DAVE'S CONCLUSION TO STEP 1 OF FINDING THE PRESSING PLANT IS:- As I was trying to explain the other day, to press a record up there are 4 main processes from making the recording tape, making a dub plate master and the make the master stamper, once you have a master, then as Paul states money talks and the back door is always open, and thats when my contacts said DECCA RECORDS DID MASTERS AND SO DID PYE, THIS PUTS THE IN THE FRAME, HOWEVER THE RECORDS THAT ARE EXACTLY THE SAME IN SO MANY WAYS IS THE DOCTOR BIRD LABEL RIGHT DOWN TO THE NO RIDGE AND THE RIDGE LIP ON THE OUT EDGE THE WEIGHT OF THE PLASTIC, SO THERE YOU HAVE HAD MY ANALYSIS AND FINDING, THAT I AM 85% SURE OF AT THIS STAGE, WHAT i DO NOT NO IS WHO PRESSED Doctor BIRD I HAD ASSUMED THEY WERE IN THE BLUE BEAT LINAGE BUT NOT SURE?? MAYBE PHILLIP'S CONNECTION? SO COME ON YOU GUYS WHO PRESSED UP DOCTOR BIRD AND GET YOUR FAVE SOUL SOUND FEEL IT AND COMPARE TO A DOCTOR BIRD OUT OF YOUR COLLECTION I FOUND DB-1089 & DS-5002 NICE ONES TO USE, BUT ANY ONES WILL DO, SO NO PUT DOWNS PLEASE AND SORRY ABOUT SPELLING GRAMMES AND CAPS,BUT WHAT DO YOU EXPECT FROM A GIPPO!? DAVE
Pete S Posted June 22, 2011 Author Posted June 22, 2011 Dave, Doctor Bird were pressed by whoever did Rio and I think that brings us back to Ska Beat / King to be honest.
Guest Paul Posted June 22, 2011 Posted June 22, 2011 President (and the first couple of Jay Boy) Records were pressed exclusively at Orlake's until they had the #1 with the re-promoted Equals 45 'Baby Come Back'. Orlake's seems to disappear from the picture at that point. 'Baby Come Back' hit #1 here in July 1968, so British Homophone/Lyntone must come into the President frame in the Summer of '68... Thanks Tony, that makes sense. And I assume the bootleg 45s were issued in 1970 and 1971 ? Paul
Guest Paul Posted June 22, 2011 Posted June 22, 2011 Dave, Doctor Bird were pressed by whoever did Rio and I think that brings us back to Ska Beat / King to be honest. Hello Pete, can you post a scan of a typical Rio single, showing the matrix stamp if possible? Thanks, Paul
Pete S Posted June 22, 2011 Author Posted June 22, 2011 (edited) Hope you can make these out ok Paul: Ska Beat press nothing like the others, maybe just the couple I checked were like that Rio Island Doctor Bird Ska Beat Treasure isle this last one is just bizarre, it's UK Treasure isle but has nothing in the run off on either side, the numbers often mistakenly got pressed onto where the label meets the vinyl but there's nothing Edited June 22, 2011 by Pete S
Guest Paul Posted June 22, 2011 Posted June 22, 2011 ...I NEED TO NO WHERE YOUR INFORMATION COME FROM WITH REGRADES, THEY ARE PRESIDENT PRESSINGS , APART FROM YOUR SAY SO, WHAT ARE YOUR FACTS THAT MAKES YOU CERTAIN... Hello Dave, I didn't say the bootlegs came from President, I suggested they came from the plant(s) which President used - most probably Lyntone but possibly British Homophone which they purchased at some stage. My comments about which plant may have pressed the bootlegs were suggestions and assumptions, as indicated, but my comments about President, British Homophone and Ice are facts because I pressed records there in 1979 and 1980. Most small companies used the same handful of independent pressing plants so it's likely that the Doctor Bird 45s (and many others) were also pressed at the same plant. I've also heard numerous reports about bootlegs being pressed at Lyntone and British Homophone in that period (late 1960s and early 1970s) - mostly rock LPs and unauthorised live recordings, but also pirate 45s etc. I'll see if I can find anything I can post here. Best regards, Paul
KevH Posted June 22, 2011 Posted June 22, 2011 All very,,,interesting stuff chaps. I prefer Prince Phillip "Keep on talking".
Guest Paul Posted June 22, 2011 Posted June 22, 2011 Hope you can make these out ok Paul: Ska Beat press nothing like the others, maybe just the couple I checked were like that Thanks Pete, that was fast! Most of those came from the same plant, no doubt. The Ska Beat one looks like a Philips pressing. Paul
Koolkat Posted June 22, 2011 Posted June 22, 2011 Tony, while you're here, could I just ask you a question? In the 60's, did Island have their own pressing plant? Classic. Absolute classic. Pissing mesel laughing.
Guest TONY ROUNCE Posted June 22, 2011 Posted June 22, 2011 Hope you can make these out ok Paul: Ska Beat press nothing like the others, maybe just the couple I checked were like that Ska Beat The Ska Beat 45 is a Philips pressing. Several of the later Ska Beat 45s - from, say, mid 1966 till the label's demise - were pressed by Philips, in fact... I just bought a copy of Alton Ellis' "Rock Steady" on Nigerian Stateside (really!), that's pressed from a set of UK stampers (British Homophone, by the looks of things...)
Guest Paul Posted June 22, 2011 Posted June 22, 2011 (edited) I just looked at pressings and matrix inscriptions of some President and Jay Boy singles and it seems that most early issues were pressed at Orlake (as Tony said). They started to use Lyntone in the late 1960s. I obviously don't have all issues so I can't be accurate but certainly by late 1970 (when they issued BOY 26, for example) they were using Lyntone most of the time. There are exceptions, such as BOY 38 (from August 1971) which was pressed elsewhere, maybe at Orlake, due to capacity or whatever. The same applies to my copy of BOY 68 (issued summer 1972). But it has to be remembered that companies often pressed or repressed records at several plants if there was high demand. I also checked a few President singles for comparison. PT 399, for example, was obviously pressed at Lyntone and that was released early 1973. But from 1974, as you can tell from PT 415 for example, issued early 1974 (and from BOY 81 etc issued later in the year) they were pressing at British Homophone. This makes sense and I already said that Ed Kassner bought that plant at some time, probably using the proceeds from the KC and George McCrae hits in 1974. In those days President were constantly repressing batches of older President and Jay Boy issues and I think they probably used existing metalwork from Lyntone or wherever. Anyway, at least this shows that the Soul Sounds bootlegs were from that same period when President were pressing most of their records at Lyntone: 1969 or 1970 to 1973 or 1974. And, for what it's worth, it also shows that Kassner switched from Lyntone to British Homophone in late 1973 / early 1974. I looked at about 100 President and Jay Boy singles to establish the pattern but if anyone has more they will be able to get more precise dates of events. I'll scan a few examples and will upload them later. Paul P.S. I realise we're going even further off-topic here but these things are interesting and may be helpful to someone. Edited June 22, 2011 by Paul
Guest Paul Posted June 22, 2011 Posted June 22, 2011 (edited) BOY 66 from early 1972 PT 399 from early 1973 Edited June 22, 2011 by Paul
Wiggyflat Posted June 22, 2011 Posted June 22, 2011 (edited) Can anyone tell me why I found a bin bag full of OOTP boots mixed in with US Verve originals in Brick Lane Market a month ago??? Edited June 22, 2011 by wiggyflat
pikeys dog Posted June 22, 2011 Posted June 22, 2011 right, had a few beers so i might be pissing up the wrong alley - but - Isn't the matrix markings down to who mastered the disk and made the stampers? You could then take the masters anywhere and have them pressed, providing they had the correct equipment?
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