Radio 4

[FrankM]

of Northern Soul

Saturday 22 October 2005 10:30-11:00 (Radio 4 FM)

Writer and cultural historian CP Lee explores the strange world of Northern Soul music, which first landed on British shores in the early 1960s. This movement instantly created an underground cultural phenomenon for teenagers who previously had nowhere to go. The Northern Soul scene was driven by a love of Black American artists who had failed to make a success in the USA.

Followers of the Northern Soul fraternity include the designer Wayne Hemingway, music producer Ian Levine, DJ Jo Wallace, and lifelong soul boy Stuart Cosgrove, all of whom describe their passion and experiences of Northern Soul music.

From the BBC Radio 4 website

[Guest ShaneH]

here is a link........

https://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/schedule/2005/10/22/day/

Shane

[Mike]

From the BBC Radio 4 website

anyone any background? fresh or recycled?

Jo you around?

[Guest in town Mikey]

Thanks for the heads up.

Can listen to this and then flick over for Fighting Talk on Radio 5 IMO the best show on the radio when its good.

[Tomangoes]

Half an hour. Is that it. Radio 4. Come on BBC at least make a proper job if your going to tell the tale.

Ed

[TheBigO]

a half hour set is all that Jo can manage these days, thats why :-)))))) Only kidding Ms Wallace, looking forward to a listen. At least the scene gets a mention!

[Guest vinylvixen]

Well, me dears...........arrived at Broadcasting House, London a couple of weeks ago........left in a studio for 1/2 hour, then someone came in and said 'Are you OK'.........to which I replied 'A sound engineer would be handy' Having worked for the BBC for several years, it didn't surprise me that nothing was set up in advance and when I was finally put in the correct studio with a line up to Manchester, I had 10 minutes left to whittle on about a subject that takes a millenium to cover Does this sound depressingly familiar? Trevor Nelson......3 hours cut down to 1 1/2 minutes.........I tried my best, pop pickers - but again, I was thwarted at the last hurdle I haven't heard the finished item and really, I have no wish to - I know what it will sound like sorry...........Jo

anyone any background? fresh or recycled?

Jo you around?

You know that is just SO not true ............... but let's not expand on that here, eh Jo

a half hour set is all that Jo can manage these days, thats why :-)))))) Only kidding Ms Wallace, looking forward to a listen. At least the scene gets a mention!

[Bigsoulman]

Same old shit no doubt

[Guest]

Stuart Cosgrove eh? His "Black Echoes" articles years ago were just superb. Isn't he very high up at Channel 4 these days ?

[StuH]

BBC Radio Four tomorrow 10.30am...The story of Northern Soul!

[Nickg]

Topics merged

[Soulsmith]

Stuart Cosgrove eh? His "Black Echoes" articles years ago were just superb. Isn't he very high up at Channel 4 these days ?

He got a reputation as one of Britain's leading pop culture commentators in the '90s.

He has also got a reputation for jumping on band wagons.

Edited October 21, 2005 by Soulsmith

[FrankM]

He has also got a reputation for jumping on band wagons.

I realise he's a St.Johnstone fan but jumping on band wagons I am not so sure.

He does a football prog on Radio Scotland twice a week which is quite fun, This week's guest was Frank McAvennie.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/scotland/sportscotlan...all/index.shtml

FrankM

Edited October 21, 2005 by FrankM

[Guest Brian J]

He got a reputation as one of Britain's leading pop culture commentators in the '90s.

He has also got a reputation for jumping on band wagons.

I jumped on a band wagon once and the fcukin' conductor threw me off!

[Guest in town Mikey]

Just a quick reminder. this starts in 15 minutes

[Guest]

Just a quick reminder. this starts in 15 minutes

Just listened and it wasn't half bad. Informed comment although it only scratched the surface as you might expect in 30 minutes.The last five minutes with summaries by Levine and Jo Wallace was excellent.

You can hear it again on the BBc website www.bbc.co.uk for about seven days

[Guest alison]

Jo, I want to hear more stories about the sailors

[Guest in town Mikey]

It suffers from the age old problem of trying to explain it to the 'wider' audience, and not satisfying the followers of the music.

I found it fun tho, and how many 30 minute programs have you heard before take 20 minutes before mentioning Wigan?

All in all very enjoyable.

[Guest Dan]

i missed it getting my girls dressed up as pirates for their friends' birthday party

can anyone post up a link to the show - i can't find audio on radio 4 for some reason (probably stupidity)

[Lloydee]

Dan

If you need it on MP3 then I can mail it over, I know it's sad but I have a mate I send them too.

File comes out at abot 12MB

[Chalky]

i missed it getting my girls dressed up as pirates for their friends' birthday party

can anyone post up a link to the show - i can't find audio on radio 4 for some reason (probably stupidity)

listen again >>HERE<< Dan

[Guest Dan]

great chalky thanks

[Guest Dan]

Thanks Chalky

that was surprisingly good, even hairs up on back of my neck at one or two points

like mikey says, not much mention of wigan which is good, just one of 20 clubs, cosgrove said - though it did make me feel, as it always does, that those of you who were around in the mid 70s at wigan and elsewhere, and experienced 2,000 people in a venue going mental, are lucky bastards.

shame so much of it was spoken in the past tense, though...'northern soul was...' - 'looking back...' etc etc

also, did my ears deceive me or did tim brown use the word 'recumberance'?

7.46/10 i would say

[Guest in town Mikey]

Thats the remnants of the cotton wool left in your ears Dan, after listening to the Sherries.

He was talking about the youth club he used to go to in Todmorden where the de rigeur soulies wore cumber buns. Thats how you could spot the div's

[Pete S]

Thanks for the heads up.

Can listen to this and then flick over for Fighting Talk on Radio 5 IMO the best show on the radio when its good.

Is that the sports quiz where they keep ringing that damn bell, I don't understand it at all, gives me a headache

[chrissie]

Thanks Chalky

that was surprisingly good, even hairs up on back of my neck at one or two points

like mikey says, not much mention of wigan which is good, just one of 20 clubs, cosgrove said - though it did make me feel, as it always does, that those of you who were around in the mid 70s at wigan and elsewhere, and experienced 2,000 people in a venue going mental, are lucky bastards.

shame so much of it was spoken in the past tense, though...'northern soul was...' - 'looking back...' etc etc

also, did my ears deceive me or did tim brown use the word 'recumberance'?

7.46/10 i would say

My thoughts are very much the same as Dan's especially the past tense thing. Although I was there for a lot of the early 70s, since I came back to the scene I am going to more dos and having much more fun.

It would of been nice for the show to of been an extra 15mins all about today's scene.

Single, late 40s, son grown up, to me I am not re living my youth like some people say about returnees but I'm having a totally new youth, and I think I appreciate the whole scene alot more than I did then

Mind you don't know whether I was flattered or insulted at being associated with an "underground subculture" Think my 25year old son would be proud of that though

QoFxx

[vaultofsouler]

quote 'chrissieo' date 'Oct 22 2005, 07:10 PM'

My thoughts are very much the same as Dan's especially the past tense thing. Although I was there for a lot of the early 70s, since I came back to the scene I am going to more dos and having much more fun.

Every thing about NS is "always" spoke of in the "past tense" by those not like me and you.... always has been and always will be IMHO.... sad I know BUT a fact.... "those outside it" or those "that WERE into it" always assume "it's gone", "finished", "over".... a "fashion period" that "just happened".... everybody on here (and those soulies not on here) KNOW that is complete B*LL*X.... how the f*ck do you explain to someone NOT into it or those that "followed fashion" back in the day.... YOU CAN'T.... there's another thread on here discussing a similar vein.... WE know it's STILL STRONG, GOING, ALIVE, etc,..... NOBODY else does, REALLY.... DO THEY....

WE "wanted and needed" (a la Gwen Owens) it underground.... THEY'VE left us DEAD AND BURIED (a la "not really how it is").... if only "they" knew.... their swansong should be.... "I NEVER KNEW what it means to you"....

It would of been nice for the show to of been an extra 15mins all about today's scene.

Never mind 15 mins.... how about "all night".... give it that allnighter feel.... and to bring the scene "right up to date" with what "we" know it to be.... will that ever happen.... I think not....

Single, late 40s, son grown up, to me I am not re living my youth like some people say about returnees but I'm having a totally new youth, and I think I appreciate the whole scene alot more than I did then

I know you, me and everybody else "into it" ain't reliving their youth.... but "others" do.... I get comments like "you're not still into 'that' music are you?.... that's "old".... goes back to that other thread asking "how would you explain?.... simple answer is you can't and never will.... I put it down to ignorance, lack of understanding, etc., but isn't that the way of "those outside"????.... I definately believe that....

Mind you don't know whether I was flattered or insulted at being associated with an "underground subculture" Think my 25year old son would be proud of that though

Just be "proud" to be "associated" ('their' words) being part of it (in the past tense 'they' use).... I know I am (present tense)....

QoFxx

----------------

Not responding directly to you Chrissie BUT using your post to put mine.... hoping you don't mind....

Back "on topic".... although one of the "better" programmes on "our past".... there still needs to be someone with some b*ll*x to do something along the lines of "exploring" the past BUT most definately bringing "the audience" more up to date as to "where" we are now... I.E. NOT DEAD YET.... but still finding, buying, playing and dancing to THE BEST MUSIC WE KNOW....

Outta here.... soulfully to one and all....

Edited October 22, 2005 by vaultofsouler

[chrissie]

Not responding directly to you Chrissie BUT using your post to put mine.... hoping you don't mind....

No problem

Link to this thread sent to Radio 4.

QoFxx

[Simsy]

WE "wanted and needed" (a la Gwen Owens) it underground.... THEY'VE left us DEAD AND BURIED (a la "not really how it is").... if only "they" knew.... their swansong should be.... "I NEVER KNEW what it means to you"....

Outta here.... soulfully to one and all....

Agreed.

I know all about the 'new blood' factor. But I'm glad it's not embraced by the masses. I just listen to them talking about Coldplay and think . As Mr Bridger always says "Simsy they don't know do they".

[Simsy]

Agreed.

I know all about the 'new blood' factor. But I'm glad it's not embraced by the masses. I just listen to them talking about Coldplay and think . As Mr Bridger always says "Simsy they don't know do they".

Moreover it's there if you want to find it, but you've got to have that want. And the want to travel and the want to pay three hundred pounds for a forty year old seven inch single. And to quote another soulmeister, as Jon Buck would say (the want to) "keep at it".

[Mike]

just listened tonight and thought did the job, (Jo, Sue regonised your tones straight away, even over corries though meself reckon you getting a radio 4 voice )

on whole "story of n..." type shows, just been trying to think if there ever has been a definte (or come close) example, can't recall any meself

anyone ?

[Guest vinylvixen]

Ah Alison, the memory is growing dim..........it was all too beautiful - so many sailors, too little time...........a bit like the show. I tried my best under strange conditions - try keeping a straight face when using the mike when you're wrestling with a giant inflateable hammer......very difficult to concentrate on soul music under those circumstances The studio I was in was being used as a dumping ground for props..........very odd - the hammer was the least of my problems They didn't use much of my blurb. I did mention the 'new' blood coming into the scene via the RnB route and the Continental Contingents.......I was mildly impressed that there wasn't too much 'ekky thump, baggy trouser' content, although someone said that people slept at allnighters...........Good Grief, what is the world coming to Mikey, thanks - about 20 years ago, I received training at Broadcasting House by Radio 2 voice coaches to make me fit into the 'BBC voice mould'. But after 2 hours they sent me back to regional radio saying that I had, and I quote, 'a Home Counties accent with Northern vow - wels.........' I did suggest that I had them surgically removed which received a withering look But hey, accents are all the rage now, don't you know Testing, testing....Jo

[Guest]

Ah Alison, the memory is growing dim..........it was all too beautiful - so many sailors, too little time...........a bit like the show. I tried my best under strange conditions - try keeping a straight face when using the mike when you're wrestling with a giant inflateable hammer......very difficult to concentrate on soul music under those circumstances The studio I was in was being used as a dumping ground for props..........very odd - the hammer was the least of my problems They didn't use much of my blurb. I did mention the 'new' blood coming into the scene via the RnB route and the Continental Contingents.......I was mildly impressed that there wasn't too much 'ekky thump, baggy trouser' content, although someone said that people slept at allnighters...........Good Grief, what is the world coming to Mikey, thanks - about 20 years ago, I received training at Broadcasting House by Radio 2 voice coaches to make me fit into the 'BBC voice mould'. But after 2 hours they sent me back to regional radio saying that I had, and I quote, 'a Home Counties accent with Northern vow - wels.........' I did suggest that I had them surgically removed which received a withering look But hey, accents are all the rage now, don't you know Testing, testing....Jo

It was also nice to hear Shades in Northampton get a mention! Normally on these types of programmes its always Wigan, Mecca, Torch etc that gets the mentions!

Cheers

Paddy

[Guest Andy BB]

Is this an old recording Jo?

I seem to remember listening to one you did on a tape Mikey's brother Mark had on when we were going up to Cleethorpes last year.

Can someone stick it in the files section so I can whack it on my ipod?

Ta muchly!

[Guest Andy BB]

Oops sorry, I found the link to the show now.

What a gonk!

[Guest in town Mikey]

Is this an old recording Jo?

I seem to remember listening to one you did on a tape Mikey's brother Mark had on when we were going up to Cleethorpes last year.

Can someone stick it in the files section so I can whack it on my ipod?

Ta muchly!

That was when Jo was on the Radio 2 show. (Funnily enough I was listening to it on Saturday night while you were probably enjoying yourself at Xfire) Tape is safely returned tho one tape I am convinced is the tape of Gary rushbrookes last night at Stafford, has some dodgy rock shoite on. If he HAS taped over it China isnt going to be ####ing far enough away

[Billy Freemantle]

"Suddenly Northern Soul was born in my head", said Ian Levine ever so modestly.

The Judy Street ending and that rambling psedo- intellectual Scotsman who went to the 'Twisted Hweel' classify this as an effective pisstake.

Edited October 24, 2005 by Billy Freemantle

[Guest vinylvixen]

My heart sank when I heard the ending............out of all the records they could've chosen - Judy 'Fookin' Street :angry: Now here's a thread - what record would you - the listening public - have wanted as THE ENDER to this programme..........if there was only ONE record that could be chosen to represent the scene - one that embodies everything that we believe in - what would it be????????

Billy, on the scale of effective piss-takes this isn't as piss taking as Trevor Nelson. I didn't get to hear the other pieces that were inserted into the programme before it went out on air and I was only aware that Stuart C was doing it and didn't know who the other contributors were.......Mr C is passionate about the music and without defending anyone's corner, I'm sure that what he did say was went meant to be sincere. Right, off to think about what record I'd chose. Jo

"Suddenly Northern Soul was born in my head", said Ian Levine ever so modestly.

The Judy Street ending and that rambling psedo- intellectual Scotsman who went to the 'Twisted

H

weel' classify this as an effective pisstake.

[vnicepce]

about 20 years ago, I received training at Broadcasting House by Radio 2 voice coaches to make me fit into the 'BBC voice mould'. But after 2 hours they sent me back to regional radio saying that I had, and I quote, 'a Home Counties accent with Northern vow - wels.........' Testing, testing....Jo

Regional Accents fashionable today?....hmmmm, well ectuawelly, I thowet they were yeaars agew......

.....I could 'av trained yer 't speke propah yeeers ago.....(1982)

R4 Prog was a nice 'snipett', though...!!!!

[Guest in town Mikey]

I actually liked hearing Judy Street.

It was massive and played a large part in me liking this music.

It was also covered by Soft Cell so there is a chance some people listening would have known of the song, but maybe not Judy's version.

Having said that, I'd be fairly sure the majority who listened to the show, without switching off were the already converted.

Edited October 24, 2005 by in town Mikey

[Simsy]

Thought Tim Brown was hilarious referring to non soul fans in Todmorden as 'head the ball's"!

[Guest Dan]

Now here's a thread - what record would you - the listening public - have wanted as THE ENDER to this programme..........if there was only ONE record that could be chosen to represent the scene - one that embodies everything that we believe in - what would it be????????

good shout jo

on the basis that i would say it has to be a soul record, not just a northern soul record, it has to be a fairly rare but well-known one that's been big for years, has to be a great uptempo dancer and also one that embodies the smell of sweat, talc and anti-perspirant and is packed with adrenalin and atmosphere AND it has to be one that would make a punter off the street stop and go 'wow!'

My choice would be: Lou Pride - I'm Comin Home In The Mornun

Edited October 24, 2005 by Dan

[Guest vinylvixen]

Excellent choice..........and that's exactly what I mean by 'capturing' the scene - the smell, the atmosphere, your emotions and hormone levels during whatever period you like - whether it's now or past times and for whichever venue...........Stafford, Yate, Wigan, Torch, Wheel...........perhaps we could expand this thread and say - which record epitomises the venues above:

Yate:

Stafford:

Wigan:

Torch:

Wheel:

West Hampstead:

Or am I splitting hairs and should stick to ONE record For me, Wigan would be either the Salvadors 'Stick by me, baby' OR the Superlatives 'I still love you'..........for the WHOOSH factor. Or, for the Lump to the Throat factor - 'Gotta Have your love' Sapphires, Yvonne Baker 'You didn't say a word' or Linda Jones 'Just can't live my life'.........tough, isn't it? West Hampstead would be Bert Keyes 'Dododahbah', James Brown 'Tell Me what you gonna do' or Junior Walker 'Tune Up'............how can I decide Jo

good shout jo

on the basis that i would say it has to be a soul record, not just a northern soul record, it has to be a fairly rare but well-known one that's been big for years, has to be a great uptempo dancer and also one that embodies the smell of sweat, talc and anti-perspirant and is packed with adrenalin and atmosphere AND it has to be one that would make a punter off the street stop and go 'wow!'

My choice would be: Lou Pride - I'm Comin Home In The Mornun

[Ernie Andrews]

Being 40 something and listening to this with my 2 year old daughter in the back seat who actually enjoyed the excerpts but pulled a face when Judy street was played just before we got to Planet Kidz! I thought that this would have been a good first installment and then another 5 episodes should be the order of the day in the same way as that TV programme about sex and the decades. No disrespect to Jo but the interviews were with the same old crew Levine/Brown /Cosgrove who is now in the elite of TV presenting up here in Scotland.

Could have had like I say 5 other shows on aspects of the scene(Rare records/ Current Clubs or venues, Collectors views/ a couple on the 80s and 90s maybe one on Specific artists/ and even one session on asking the punters about fav records and playing them) that might have given the joe public a better insight.It was ridiculous to talk about expensive records (Frank Wilson) and then not play it to the Radio 4 public even if we have heard it a thousand times.

I was dissapointed but then Ive been dissapointed so many times by these shows. 40 years into 30 minutes could you imagine them doing that with football their would be an outcry! :angry:

[Guest vinylvixen]

You speak prop'a anyway cos yooz is from Chat'um, innit........ Viva Estuary English - proud of it, cant ooh u poggin' chav Right, off to polish my constanants........Jo

Regional Accents fashionable today?....hmmmm, well ectuawelly, I thowet they were yeaars agew......

.....I could 'av trained yer 't speke propah yeeers ago.....(1982)

R4 Prog was a nice 'snipett', though...!!!!

[Guest vinylvixen]

Ernie Andrews: my 2 year old daughter in the back seat who actually enjoyed the excerpts but pulled a face when Judy street was played just before we got to Planet Kidz! I'll buy her a large whatever 2 year olds like.........she has taste

I thought that this would have been a good first installment and then another 5 episodes should be the order of the day in the same way as that TV programme about sex and the decades. Could have had like I say 5 other shows on aspects of the scene(Rare records/ Current Clubs or venues, Collectors views/ a couple on the 80s and 90s maybe one on Specific artists/ and even one session on asking the punters about fav records and playing them) that might have given the joe public a better insight.I did suggest it but that wasn't an option..........then different people could've given their opinions on different aspects of the scene as it's developed over the years....old gits from the 6Ts for the Wheel/ Torch, 40 summats for Wigan/ Stafford/ West Hampstead...30/40 somethings for Yate........and new blood for the current scene, both here in the UK and abroad. That would've been far more interesting and you could've fitted in midtempo, stompers, raries, newies, 2k, RnB, the whole kit and caboodle.......perhaps Soul Source should produce it's own documentary series for radio and present it to the commissioning editors? There's enough talent on this site to sink a ship..........

No disrespect to Jo but the interviews were with the same old crew Levine/Brown /Cosgrove who is now in the elite of TV presenting up here in Scotland: Picked as the token gobby bird........or is it cos I shagged the producer Damn those casting couches - only joking and no disrespect taken

t was ridiculous to talk about expensive records (Frank Wilson) and then not play it to the Radio 4 public even if we have heard it a thousand times. Well spotted

I still think there is enough driving force/ presenters/ radio show bods on this site to make a series happen.................DO IT. Jo

Edited October 24, 2005 by vinylvixen

[FrankM]

Thought Tim Brown was hilarious referring to non soul fans in Todmorden as 'head the ball's"!

I always thought that "Heed The Baws" was a Scottish phrase. Is Tim Scottish or did he hang about with Keb Darge ?

FrankM

[FrankM]

Cosgrove who is now in the elite of TV presenting up here in Scotland.

What TV show does he present?

If we're being nit picking?

[Guest]

To quote Dan...... though it did make me feel, as it always does, that those of you who were around in the mid 70s at wigan and elsewhere, and experienced 2,000 people in a venue going mental, are lucky bastards.

You are sooooo right m8 we were very very lucky to have been there seen it and been part of it.

BUT to quote another returnee to the scene:

I am not re living my youth like some people say about returnees but I'm having a totally new youth, and I think I appreciate the whole scene alot more than I did then

ENJOYING IT MORE NOW THAN EVER!!!!!!

ive actually just listened to the prog Jo you should have had far more time!

Tim Brown has anyone seen him lately??

Divs ....not heard anyone called that since the last all nighter i went to

70s and Oldies Yawwwwwwwwwwwwwnnnnnnn

Levine and co Yawwwwwwwwwwwwwwnnnnnnn

Stu Cosgrove, man get a life what the hell has northern soul got to do with bloody politics and the working man??? We did/do what we do because of the music and the love of the scene FFS. We have never been understood by the media or the people not on the scene and i suppose we never will!!!! WHO CARES!! We are what we are and dont need to be understood or politicised.. It was like the This England programme Wigan Casino ....what the hell did it have to do with the left wing or socialism etc etc and if anyone thinks it was only the working men who followed the scene, think again.

OOOOOO I LOVE RANTING ON he he

Edited October 25, 2005 by OoooRICKoooO

[Guest]

and Shane dont slap my hand again ive not slagged any one or called em a W******