Cover Ups & New Discoveries... A Downward Slope ?

[Guest Paul]

Easy to say from your armchair Martin, but what new sounds have you (or any of the other knockers) broken / contributed to the rare soul scene in the last 10 years then?

Very easy to knock others when youre not actually on the front edge of buying / breaking new sounds in an oldies dominated environment.

As far as I'm concerned, Steve, we're all equally entitled to our views on this subject - regardless of whether or not we may be considered by anyone to have made any contribution to the "rare soul scene" in the past ten years (or whatever).

My own personal opinion is that the most valid (and affordable) contributions most of us can make to soul music (rather than just the "rare soul scene") are from buying new releases or legitimate reissues, paying for tickets to attend concerts or whatever else may be of some small benefit to artists / writers / producers / musicians / engineers / publishers / record companies / studios or anyone who may have had some artistic or financial input in the creation and circulation of the music.

What else can be more important???

[Steve G]

As far as I'm concerned, Steve, we're all equally entitled to our views on this subject - regardless of whether or not we may be considered by anyone to have made any contribution to the "rare soul scene" in the past ten years (or whatever).

My own personal opinion is that the most valid (and affordable) contributions most of us can make to soul music (rather than just the "rare soul scene") are from buying new releases or legitimate reissues, paying for tickets to attend concerts or whatever else may be of some small benefit to artists / writers / producers / musicians / engineers / publishers / record companies / studios or anyone who may have had some artistic or financial input in the creation and circulation of the music.

What else can be more important???

Yes of course Paul that's why it's a forum for differing views. If we all agreed it would be pretty damn boring. I must admit I don't understand covering up new releases which are easily available to everyone, and clearly that does depive the artist of sales, recogition etc. Just trying to make the point that tracking down truly unknown 60s and 70s records is pretty hard at this point, and not a cheap pasttime either. That's why a DJ will cover up something, and yes it is selfish, have never said otherwise. Most of the knockers of cover ups on the rare soul scene, don't play on that pitch, and that's fine. If they did they might see it slightly differently.

See you at Womack then!

[Simon M]

Just for the thread . New sounds to the scene can come cheap ( If you really are digging around collections , Internet or otherwsie) The best example is Butch 's Parliaments find

It was $ 90 from the net and coverd as hmmm. The Mysterons "rainy day " . or was it something else ?

ps. theres quite a few more

-

Edited April 21, 2011 by Simon M

[KevH]

Just for the thread . New sounds to the scene can come cheap ( If you really are digging around collections , Internet or otherwsie) The best example is Butch 's Parliaments find

It was $ 90 from the net and coverd as hmmm. The Mysterons "rainy day " . or was it something else ?

ps. theres quite a few more

-

$90 ?..heard it was 300 .

[George M]

Been largely offline for ages and I don't normally like commenting in public on things like this, but here's my take - as far as I can tell, I currently play as many different cover ups as anyone on the soul scene, at least 10+ current plays. I do it because I put a lot of work into digging, and proper "unknowns" (or at least undercover tunes) are hard to crack, so when you get one and you think it's 10/10, you want to give it as much life as possible. Most dj's have no ideas of their own, just copy others, have no digging skills, and I don't even know why they bother really, it just seems more like some sort of middle-aged cock measuring contest than a progressive music scene most of the time. Also the internet amplifies this, people just sit on their arses copying what they see on the screen like "monkey see, monkey do" zombies. Copying playlists as a primary means of record finding is so lame. I'm not saying I'm amazing at all, but I just think the majority of dj's are a bit crap and the bar has been set way too low. If you can't develop your own sound, find your own records, and play them in the right order with some sort of originality, then what'as the point in it all? Cover ups are something I do find slightly distasteful in some ways, but at this point in the game they're a more legitimate tool than ever for keeping things fresh & moving.

[Steve G]

$90 ?..heard it was 300 .

Whatever it was, it was also a long time ago. Butch had it and played it for quite a while before it got uncovered. Simon, it's hardly a "recent" example and doesn't illustrate the point you are trying to make at all.....as the world has moved on a lot since those days. Everyone and their dog is on-line now trying to find stuff, and as George says a lot of it is chasing sounds that others are playing / breaking.

[Dave Thorley]

Good to know I'm not the only crazy mutha then Sean

Far as I'm concerned if a DJ plays a cover up he's just a liar.

Could understand it back in the day when the bootleggers were rife but no need whatsoever these days.

Boot leggers aren't rife anymore, have a quick look at Ebay UK, tons of the stuff, some have changed format slightly with custom carvers, but the site sagging under the weight of boot legs.

Also have to agree with much of what George M says, takes alot of hard work to find something new to play these days, only to see the usual suspects then get out their wod just to get on the back of a tune cuz it gaining interest, rather than put in the work to find something of their own to play.

Edited April 21, 2011 by Dave Thorley

[Guest Paul]

I'll obviously never agreee with cover ups, mainly for moral rights reasons and because I generally dislike oneupmanship, but I just want to stress that I do recognise the hard work and enthusiasm (and expense) involved in finding new discoveries these days.

All you crate diggers should form a trade union to protect your interests and improve your working conditions and benefits etc.

And you can start by giving yourselves a weekend off for Easter - with full pay of course.

[Marc Forrest]

$90 ?..heard it was 300 .

It was slightly over 300 USD...I was second highest.

[Marc Forrest]

Whatever it was, it was also a long time ago. Butch had it and played it for quite a while before it got uncovered.

And who knows for how long it would have stayed as a C/UP wouldnt it have been for lews auction list complete with a sales tape where said tune was on...10 K was the price he was immediately offered from a UK DJ if I remember right.

[KevH]

And who knows for how long it would have stayed as a C/UP wouldnt it have been for lews auction list complete with a sales tape where said tune was on...10 K was the price he was immediately offered from a UK DJ if I remember right.

Uncovered 3/4 years ago?

[Garethx]

Look at the example of Tommy & The Derbys: had this not been covered up for over a decade would it ever have got a legal re-issue? It turned out to be a really rare record anyway but had it been spun uncovered the mystique would not have built, that's a simple fact.

While Paul's comments make a lot of sense from a purely ethical/moral standpoint surely he must concede that deejays have a huge role in making vintage soul music accessible and one of the greatest tools at the soul deejay's disposal is the cover-up. A record which is covered up always has a head start in terms of scene acceptance. However uncomfortable that makes some feel it's long been the case. Human nature practically dictates it.

Historically cover-ups have been a massive part of the scene (possibly the one aspect that truly sets it apart from others) and as George and Steve say above are perhaps more pertinent now than ever before. Let's face it, in the scene's 70s heyday finding good unknowns to play was like shooting fish in a barrel. These days it's extremely difficult. Those who make the effort to do so should feel free to protect the identity of a record for as long as it takes others to do the detective work and uncover them.

Covering up new releases is more problematic but if the record company and artist are made aware and agree in the pursuit of gaining more interest for their output I see no great moral stumbling block. If covering up a forthcoming release results in more sales it's surely a good thing, no?

Edited April 21, 2011 by garethx

[Garethx]

Another thing has just occurred to me. Paul's point of view has it that deejays are just a cog in a wheel which turns to sell music and ignores the fact that deejaying in itself can be a skill. The very best deejays elevate the thing beyond taking one record off and putting another one on after it. Part of that skill at its apogee is finding and playing records before others. Yes, one-upmanship is part of it, but it's only a part.

[Chalky]

Most of us do as Paul asks and buy the new releases from companies like his but the fact is that market contributes little to the rare soul scene. If anything it is the other way round with the rare soul crate diggers ultimately benefiting the "new" release market, Tommy Tate as mentioned a prime example. If it hadn't been for rare soul scene the wider listening audience would have been unaware of the record.

It's not like Tommy Tate was being done a diservice by the lack of recognition is it? He was already a major player on the soul scene and has the respect of most of us and he knew of his status on the soul scene. This one record if it had stayed covered up would have made little difference.

As mentioned earlier it does appear to be those who are not involved in the rare soul scene who seem to object the most.

Think we will have to agree to differ on this one.

[Cunnie]

Easy to say from your armchair Martin, but what new sounds have you (or any of the other knockers) broken / contributed to the rare soul scene in the last 10 years then?

Very easy to knock others when youre not actually on the front edge of buying / breaking new sounds in an oldies dominated environment.

Quite funny that Steve as I'm actually playing a studio cut of the Spinners classic I'll Be Around & I've got no idea whatsoever who it is.

When I do play it I announce it as an unknown artist & ask if anyone knows who it is to tell me as I'd love to put a name to the artist.

Sure Sean will confirm this as he's heard me play it out & I also asked him to help me find out who it really is.

On a slightly different tangent, Richie Parker or Aaron Neville? Say's Aaron on mine so that's what I play it as

[Chalky]

And who knows for how long it would have stayed as a C/UP wouldnt it have been for lews auction list complete with a sales tape where said tune was on...10 K was the price he was immediately offered from a UK DJ if I remember right.

plenty knew what it was though even though it was covered up

[Gold Band]

My husband loves to play the find the cover up game & he thinks that DJ's do a fantastic job, but he says that people have got to remember that DJ's also enjoy their work & some even get paid a decent wedge for it. Most people have seen flynny's list on anoraks corner the other half has a list with around a thousand on it that he has used to chase the records that he desires not all may I add. Obviously there is another list of cover ups that he has yet to discover or uncover but if you like a track & you do uncover it or hear whispers in the right corners then there may still be a chance of getting what you want at the right price & what an immense feeling of satisfaction that brings, as most collectors on here will testify. We feel that what people need to recognise is it is all but a game that most DJ's & collector like to play. There are also a lot of paying punters out there that like to hear records break on the scene whether it be covered up or not & travel distances to hear the sounds that they like. So with that said maybe it's time to chill but please remember this if people do uncover your cover-ups don't always expect people to stay quiet, as once they have acquired the said vinyl it may increase the value by announcing it to one & all, as long as they know that there's not too many about.

[Guest Paul]

Another thing has just occurred to me. Paul's point of view has it that deejays are just a cog in a wheel which turns to sell music and ignores the fact that deejaying in itself can be a skill. The very best deejays elevate the thing beyond taking one record off and putting another one on after it. Part of that skill at its apogee is finding and playing records before others. Yes, one-upmanship is part of it, but it's only a part.

Hello Gareth,

I do recognise the work and expense of rare soul DJs and collectors, as I said, but I think the music is most important - and those who made it.

I agree that DJing is a skill, I was a teenage soul DJ. And up until about nine years ago I still DJd in clubs several times each week in the north east, playing soul and house, mixing beats, new and old, etc. I loved the experience and got a good income from it.

I still have a DJ rig in my studio and would never part with it. In fact at the moment I'm teaching a few local lads how to mix beats etc.

So DJ culture is fine, it's just cover ups I don't like - although I understand they're part of the game.

Paul

[Steve G]

Quite funny that Steve as I'm actually playing a studio cut of the Spinners classic I'll Be Around & I've got no idea whatsoever who it is.

When I do play it I announce it as an unknown artist & ask if anyone knows who it is to tell me as I'd love to put a name to the artist.

Sure Sean will confirm this as he's heard me play it out & I also asked him to help me find out who it really is.

On a slightly different tangent, Richie Parker or Aaron Neville? Say's Aaron on mine so that's what I play it as

Yes acetates with no artist ID are a challenge. I have quite a few northern ones, I am afraid I give them all "names"...Steve

[Guest Paul]

Most of us do as Paul asks and buy the new releases from companies like his but the fact is that market contributes little to the rare soul scene. If anything it is the other way round with the rare soul crate diggers ultimately benefiting the "new" release market, Tommy Tate as mentioned a prime example. If it hadn't been for rare soul scene the wider listening audience would have been unaware of the record.

It's not like Tommy Tate was being done a diservice by the lack of recognition is it? He was already a major player on the soul scene and has the respect of most of us and he knew of his status on the soul scene. This one record if it had stayed covered up would have made little difference.

As mentioned earlier it does appear to be those who are not involved in the rare soul scene who seem to object the most.

Think we will have to agree to differ on this one.

We might never agree on cover ups, Chalky, but we have other things in common and I accept that the rare soul scene is an important and fascinating part of the bigger picture. It's just that I'm not so focused on rarities or exclusives, even though I have some rare records in my collection. I'm more focused on the music and the making of music etc.

Having said that, I still have thousands of 45s and LPs and CDs and I've got a particular thing about UK promos so I'm a little bit of a collector deep down inside and I know the thrill of getting a prized item after years of searching.

But my biggest thrill comes from sharing music with others, either by playing things to friends or releasing music for the public. That's what excites me.

Best wishes,

[Simon M]

Whatever it was, it was also a long time ago. Butch had it and played it for quite a while before it got uncovered. Simon, it's hardly a "recent" example and doesn't illustrate the point you are trying to make at all.....as the world has moved on a lot since those days. Everyone and their dog is on-line now trying to find stuff, and as George says a lot of it is chasing sounds that others are playing / breaking.

I did it for the thread Steve. As it's not always about a high outlay to a dealer .

Hmm maybe a fresh, unknown,proper northern record would be extortionate for 2011. Have you got an example?

Edited April 22, 2011 by Simon M

[Geeselad]

[. Most dj's have no ideas of their own, just copy others, have no digging skills, and I don't even know why they bother really, it just seems more like some sort of middle-aged cock measuring contest than a progressive music scene most of the time. Also the internet amplifies this, people just sit on their arses copying what they see on the screen like "monkey see, monkey do" zombies. Copying playlists as a primary means of record finding is so lame. I'm not saying I'm amazing at all, but I just think the majority of dj's are a bit crap and the bar has been set way too low. If you can't develop your own sound, find your own records, and play them in the right order with some sort of originality, then what'as the point in it all? Cover ups are something I do find slightly distasteful in some ways, but at this point in the game they're a more legitimate tool than ever for keeping things fresh & moving.

[Mace]

Been largely offline for ages and I don't normally like commenting in public on things like this, but here's my take - as far as I can tell, I currently play as many different cover ups as anyone on the soul scene, at least 10+ current plays. I do it because I put a lot of work into digging, and proper "unknowns" (or at least undercover tunes) are hard to crack, so when you get one and you think it's 10/10, you want to give it as much life as possible. Most dj's have no ideas of their own, just copy others, have no digging skills, and I don't even know why they bother really, it just seems more like some sort of middle-aged cock measuring contest than a progressive music scene most of the time. Also the internet amplifies this, people just sit on their arses copying what they see on the screen like "monkey see, monkey do" zombies. Copying playlists as a primary means of record finding is so lame. I'm not saying I'm amazing at all, but I just think the majority of dj's are a bit crap and the bar has been set way too low. If you can't develop your own sound, find your own records, and play them in the right order with some sort of originality, then what'as the point in it all? Cover ups are something I do find slightly distasteful in some ways, but at this point in the game they're a more legitimate tool than ever for keeping things fresh & moving.

Well said Mr Mahood...never had you down as a keyboard warrior, but job well done

[BrianB]

A well thought out response but one I must disagree with. I think you are being most unfair in your criticism of DJs and the power of the inernet to allow us to listen to our music (yes ours, not DJs) in a way that was unthinkable only 5 years or so ago.

Also, one comment that has been repeated is that covering a record up somehow adds to its qualities and makes it more alluring to some. I don't think that logic adds up. However, I am really enjoying this thread, as my personal view is there are too many sub forums on here now, and it has diluted the pulling power of Soul Source, for me anyway. This thread has reignited my interest.

Cheers

Brian

[Guest Action Pat]

This is a pretty cool thread...I live in the States and don't find that this is too much of a common practice, but I could be wrong. A lot of the time most of the records I play must sound like cover ups to the people I spin em for because they usually just come to dance and have no idea what they are hearing! I do like the idea of discovering something that no one else has ever heard (or at least appreciated) and keeping that exclusivity, thats kind of why digging for records is so much fun. Thanks for shedding some light on this mysterious practice!

[Driveller]

Tell you all what.

If I was an artist & I heard some so called DJ playing my record and calling it someone else I'd stab him

Blimey! I hope if Tobi Lark ever walks in when I'm playing "Time Will Pass You By" that she hasn't been talking to you!!! :-)

Seriously, I do understand your point about this. They'd like people to know it's them, granted, I totally understand.

On the other hand, how many would say "how dare you compare me to that dreadful Otis Clay"? Artists often take comparison as a compliment (and that kind of thing sometimes even appears in their promotional material).

And it gets even cloudier! Even at the time, records often came out under different names, sometimes dodgily (Tobi Legend), sometimes with the artists' full knowledge (Arthur & Mary on Modern is supposed to be Arthur Adams and Mary Love, but one side has Mary and the other - can't remember which - has Mary's mate Sandy Wynns, who stood in for her on the relevant session), and sometimes who knows how - look at all the names Arin Demain is supposed to have released records under - did he agree to all of them or not? Oh, and thank your lucky stars you never had to record anything for Major Bill Smith! It might have come out six times and be called anything from Soulman Cunnie And The Fabulous Brilliantnesses to Fifi Frumpernickel And The Suspicious Skidmarks. And if you were an experienced recording artist, you wouldn't have batted an eye at any of them.

I admire your passion, and at the heart of what you say there is a truth I sympathise with, but I think there are more angles to this one that are worth considering.

All the best,

Nick

PS Fascinating discussion, folks - keep it up!

[Dave Abbott]

to Fifi Frumpernickel And The Suspicious Skidmarks. And if you were an experienced recording artist, you wouldn't have batted an eye at any of them.

Nick - you are making me happy :-)

[Russ Vickers]

Nick - you are making me happy :-)

Well I now know what my next female cover up will be anyway - FiFi will be getting her 15 mins of fame .

Hope your well Nick

Best Russ

[Dave Abbott]

Well I now know what my next female cover up will be anyway - FiFi will be getting her 15 mins of fame .

Hope your well Nick

Best Russ

You can't take someone elses cover-up name! that's like bootlegging a cover-up errrr

[Guest]

covering up records is so childish, i supposse you`re gonna put all your records in your coffin with you when you die then no one will ever find out who they are by. grow up eh

[boba]

I have a question for the pro-cover up people. Say there's a currently in-print CD that was licensed from the artist that contains a nice previously unreleased track from the late 60s. Do you still support playing that track covered up, even though telling people what it actually is would probably sell the CD and put money directly in the artist's hands? I don't buy the "increases the mystique" argument in this specific case; it might increase the interest in the track temporarily but by the time the track is uncovered, interest will probably have waned and potential CD sales will have been lost. I am not trying to make some point about cover ups in general, I am asking about this specific case. Thanks.

[Dave Abbott]

I have a question for the pro-cover up people. Say there's a currently in-print CD that was licensed from the artist that contains a nice previously unreleased track from the late 60s. Do you still support playing that track covered up, even though telling people what it actually is would probably sell the CD and put money directly in the artist's hands? I don't buy the "increases the mystique" argument in this specific case; it might increase the interest in the track temporarily but by the time the track is uncovered, interest will probably have waned and potential CD sales will have been lost. I am not trying to make some point about cover ups in general, I am asking about this specific case. Thanks.

Personally no. I would not cover up recent 45 releases or CD tracks - as you rightly point out the artist (or family) and label/distrbutors/records shops will still make a cut. so for me 'no'.

[Douglas]

I remember a first class argument going on a few year back on You Tube, Court Davis's son stating that his dad has never been known as Herbie Williams or any other name,lol.

[Russ Vickers]

Why cant people except that its part of the NS Scene & has been since the 6ts, I personally dont give a flying fcuk what scenarios people come up with to try & justify why it shouldn't happen, it has, does & will continue to happen whilst there is a scene & the best of luck to anyone still diggin' deep enough to discover discs worth covering up..........get over it !!!

Russ

[Phil Shields]

Why cant people except that its part of the NS Scene & has been since the 6ts, I personally dont give a flying fcuk what scenarios people come up with to try & justify why it shouldn't happen, it has, does & will continue to happen whilst there is a scene & the best of luck to anyone still diggin' deep enough to discover discs worth covering up..........get over it !!!

Russ

Well said Russ

[Simon M]

I say dont get over it , just uncover it on soul-source

[BrianB]

Why cant people except that its part of the NS Scene & has been since the 6ts, I personally dont give a flying fcuk what scenarios people come up with to try & justify why it shouldn't happen, it has, does & will continue to happen whilst there is a scene & the best of luck to anyone still diggin' deep enough to discover discs worth covering up..........get over it !!!

Russ

Not a very good argument Russ. Its always happened so that makes it right and why should I get over it? The music is ours not DJs. The comment earlier is quite thought provoking...take your records into your coffin so no one will ever know what they are. Where do you draw the line on depriving us guys who have kept the scene alive in one way or another for 45 years from knowing what a record is, who it is by and being able to listen to it when and where we want, not at the whim of the one guy who has the record but doesn't own the song?

I have never been able to see the logic of cover ups and never will. I repeat, the reasoning that it makes the record somehow "better" because it is covered up is strange.

Brian B

[Chalky]

Not a very good argument Russ. Its always happened so that makes it right and why should I get over it? The music is ours not DJs. The comment earlier is quite thought provoking...take your records into your coffin so no one will ever know what they are. Where do you draw the line on depriving us guys who have kept the scene alive in one way or another for 45 years from knowing what a record is, who it is by and being able to listen to it when and where we want, not at the whim of the one guy who has the record but doesn't own the song?

I have never been able to see the logic of cover ups and never will. I repeat, the reasoning that it makes the record somehow "better" because it is covered up is strange.

Brian B

No one said it makes the record better by covering up, it is simply for the DJ to enjoy a bit of exclusivity on the disc, and why shouldn't he, he/she is the one who put in the time and effort to find and break the record in the first place.

A cover up hasn't yet killed the scene and the Dj's do just as much to keep the scene alive as anyone, especially those who root out the "new " stuff. Besides it is more often than not the DJ responsible for the record/cover up in the first place so it is not yours. If you want to listen to the record go and listen to the DJ just like we used to do before the internet took hold, or go out and find the records like the DJ's doing the covering up.

Too many lazy fookers who want everything on a plate and for those who put in the hard work and time and effort to simply hand everything over on a plate for you.

[Phil Shields]

No one said it makes the record better by covering up, it is simply for the DJ to enjoy a bit of exclusivity on the disc, and why shouldn't he, he/she is the one who put in the time and effort to find and break the record in the first place.

A cover up hasn't yet killed the scene and the Dj's do just as much to keep the scene alive as anyone, especially those who root out the "new " stuff. Besides it is more often than not the DJ responsible for the record/cover up in the first place so it is not yours. If you want to listen to the record go and listen to the DJ just like we used to do before the internet took hold, or go out and find the records like the DJ's doing the covering up.

Too many lazy fookers who want everything on a plate and for those who put in the hard work and time and effort to simply hand everything over on a plate for you.

I was just trying to compose a good reply then read this ..... I like it particulary that last paragraph

[Russ Vickers]

Not a very good argument Russ. Its always happened so that makes it right and why should I get over it? The music is ours not DJs. The comment earlier is quite thought provoking...take your records into your coffin so no one will ever know what they are. Where do you draw the line on depriving us guys who have kept the scene alive in one way or another for 45 years from knowing what a record is, who it is by and being able to listen to it when and where we want, not at the whim of the one guy who has the record but doesn't own the song?

I have never been able to see the logic of cover ups and never will. I repeat, the reasoning that it makes the record somehow "better" because it is covered up is strange.

Brian B

Its not an argument, its a fact. Anyone who is being buried with thier records is bonkers anyway, so doesnt count, but what a ridiculous analogy, the thought that to keep a records true id secret they would have them buried with them.........Jesus........lighten up folks, its not that serious, its soul music, no artist is being ripped off, as some infer & no one has said it makes a record better & BTW people who have covered records up have been on the scene as long too............its not life threatening, its Northern Soul !!!.............do you really lose sleep wondering what someones cover up is & feel deprived over it..........OMG its all just part of the SWONS....................people are dieing all over the world to make thier country a better place & we're getting excited over a piece of paper over a record label, who cares enjoy ya self & just take it for what it is.......

Simon - If the big unveiling on SS is what does it for you crack on, I dont think anyone is that bothered are they...........certainly any of the records that I have coverd up right now are fair game & thats all part of the fun innit ???. So long as its done in the trrue spirit & not just sour grapes - all records are uncovered for one reason or another eventually. If I like a record I like a record, covered or uncovered - most of my mates would probably tell me what something was anyway if I was that bothered, but I wouldnt tell the rest of the world if they did, its just a bit of fun at the level I'm involved in.

How do we all stand on Secret Sounds ??? or is it just the paper label that gets people all hot n bothered.......???

I would also add that there are plenty of collectors out there keeping records close to thier chests, are they denying the artist thier true recognition - just cos you put another label on when DJing does that make you any worst than someone who refuses to share information on records they collect or discover ?. Do we all have to post sound files of every obscure record we own just in case an artist is not being recognised or someone gets the hump that we're not all caring & sharing .

Best Russ

Edited May 2, 2011 by Russ Vickers

[Russ Vickers]

Totally agree with cover ups, just wonder though if and when Butch steps down,will he reveal his cover ups or will he make an extra special one off appearance per year,would certainly be worth it for the Diane Lewis and The Temptones alone, then again he has enough excusives/elusives without the cover ups

Steve

I'd like to think that Butch's cover ups will remain a source of mystery & conjecture for many a year to come Steve. I'd also hope that he would remain active in the collecting/selling side of things as he is a great source of underplayed & undiscovered records & could still make an imense contribution to the scene from the side lines.

Others will come through to step into his shoes with regard to DJing - not sure if anyone could fill them fully, but look at Richard Searling, whilst RS continued to do stuff, he isnt the source of new discoveries to the NS Scene he was & obviously hasnt been for many years, but then came along the Butchmeister, whilst I think Butch would be a huge loss DJ wise someone will come through to continue, probably someone few of us even know about at present..........

To get back on topic - 'Cover Ups & New Discoveries... A Downward Slope ?'..............no chance, as many people digging now as there ever were & plenty of good cover ups about, the only dilema is the one that has been discussed forever & that is certain peoples moral dilema towards the practice, but whilst we're still debating the issue theres life in the old cover up yet & for many years to come methinks, so lets just enjoy it as part of the scene & tolerate & respect each others opinions.

Best Russ

[Simon M]

Russ we can all see from this thread that cover-ups are not just a bit of fun.

for a start people feel very strongly about the moral side of it ( Cunnie for example)

Maybe if you are playing a game of name that tune with your mates then ok it may be fun ?

Also , as Steve G says, there is often (not always) a large outlay of money to obtain unknown quality cover-ups (emphasis on the quality here)

Anyway I'm sure people will carry on covering up for whatever reason and people will also take satisfaction in uncovering em . Let just hope there's some rare quality dancers still to be had , after all thats the main thing is it not ? Unknown dancers being found by the scene /scenes and not coverups !!

Simon

ps. Question for Chalky "When should a coverup be uncovered ?

Edited May 4, 2011 by Simon M

[Toodarnsoulful]

Just seen this topic and i dont post much on SS but i found this one of the more interesting topics, I enjoy a good cover up and seeing the dj's face when they can visually see that the punters or at least one person in the crowd is buzzing off there discovery.. I have a few cover ups myself and it's the most enjoyable to have people dance to these records as at that point i can tell they are dancing because they like the tune nothing else, not because billy big balls dj who everyone worships is playing it or not because it's worth $10000000 and sooo rare (supposedly) ...it's only the fact they're dancing because they like what they hear (or are pissed! ha)... Cover ups are healthy in my opinion...

SOME Dj's do dig and work hard at discovering these records though i would say some more than others, when money is no object undoubtably this makes things easier, and also those who have the money will in some cases have the contacts stateside who in turn let them have first dibs on most things and i therefore don't really feel the need to praise these dj's as that doesnt make it that hard does it now...fair play for them building the contacts in the first place etc. though i think the real diggers don't get the credit generally and alot of them are stateside travelling to ends of the earth digging not sat at the end of an email waiting for there next list..... A lot of dj's have no imagination as George already said, it's sad reading others lists and copying there sets basically where is the enjoyment in that? would never want to play another dj's cast off's basically but hey ho each to there own...

Play what you love, dance to great cover ups and have a great weekend y'all....

L

[Geeselad]

lot of dj's have no imagination as George already said, it's sad reading others lists and copying there sets basically where is the enjoyment in that? would never want to play another dj's cast off's basically but hey ho each to there own...

Play what you love, dance to great cover ups and have a great weekend y'all....

L

As I said before, I think the focus on exclusivity aint neccasarly a great thing for the scene, for a tune to truely to crossover to the mainstream, it has to be about in multiple copies or sadly bootegged, cause every DJ wants their own exclusives, but tunes common to several dj's are just as important to the scene imho.

Edited June 17, 2011 by geeselad

[KevH]

Just seen this topic and i dont post much on SS but i found this one of the more interesting topics, I enjoy a good cover up and seeing the dj's face when they can visually see that the punters or at least one person in the crowd is buzzing off there discovery.. I have a few cover ups myself and it's the most enjoyable to have people dance to these records as at that point i can tell they are dancing because they like the tune nothing else, not because billy big balls dj who everyone worships is playing it or not because it's worth $10000000 and sooo rare (supposedly) ...it's only the fact they're dancing because they like what they hear (or are pissed! ha)... Cover ups are healthy in my opinion...

SOME Dj's do dig and work hard at discovering these records though i would say some more than others, when money is no object undoubtably this makes things easier, and also those who have the money will in some cases have the contacts stateside who in turn let them have first dibs on most things and i therefore don't really feel the need to praise these dj's as that doesnt make it that hard does it now...fair play for them building the contacts in the first place etc. though i think the real diggers don't get the credit generally and alot of them are stateside travelling to ends of the earth digging not sat at the end of an email waiting for there next list..... A lot of dj's have no imagination as George already said, it's sad reading others lists and copying there sets basically where is the enjoyment in that? would never want to play another dj's cast off's basically but hey ho each to there own...

Play what you love, dance to great cover ups and have a great weekend y'all....

L

,,,slightly off topic but..if a dj does play a set WITH imagination lets hope its to the right crowd,otherwise he gets the heave oh and bad press!!!.

As for copying playlists,all the tunes are out there for all to buy.There is such a thing as "in vogue / popular" etc.Some of these tunes are already in boxes and collections.Every playlist, apart from the top guys,is a "cast off" of others playlists.

Play what you love - recipe for disaster if the promoter wants a full dancefloor...

[Geeselad]

[Play what you love - recipe for disaster if the promoter wants a full dancefloor...

[Toodarnsoulful]

Every playlist, apart from the top guys,is a "cast off" of others playlists.

I disagree... I'm 100% sure that there is other dj's who arent seen as top guys who's playlists aren't castoff's from other playlist...

[KevH]

Geese ,taste may be a mix of all genres.Some want the same thing everytime......if it quacks like a duck....

Why do "ego's" come into it when filling the floor is mentioned? Is emptying the floor a sign of a big ego - or playing the wrong stuff to the wrong crowd.Or crap records?

[KevH]

I disagree... I'm 100% sure that there is other dj's who arent seen as top guys who's playlists aren't castoff's from other playlist...

So what you're saying is that some tunes have never been played out before.? Or just not put on playlists?

[Guest Bearsy]

So what you're saying is that some tunes have never been played out before.? Or just not put on playlists?

everyone at some point has bought a record they have heard played by someone else, all mine are everyone elses cast offs im just doing compilation dj spots