Soul Scene Villains

[Mike]

ok enough

ask both of you to take this ongoing exchange to pms or email

thanks

[Guest martyn]

Edited out

Appologies to admin I seem to have created a response from planet zog

Edited April 7, 2011 by martyn

[dthedrug]

Hi All yes lets get back to normal will do as you have a fixation, about me and my experience of the soul scene, and evaded any form of self disclosure about why you have a suspicious streak that verges on edge of a depressive illness, and a compelling dislike of the fact I was one of the first members of a sub culture has bought a paranoid envy of your own wish fulfillment, that you are complainer about your actions not mine, if you read the thread again the fact you implied that you were involved with other man u fans at the trouble at West Ham, and that would make you of an age of at least 60 today, and you say that Man united were the original BB, implying that you were the first skinhead in London and because of that fact you were a member of the largest Firm? as there were only 2 named Firms at the time the Krays & Richardson's I don't think I will be alone by declaring oh! and London's largest Firm the Cockney Reds???? then on each entry you have made told us nothing but called me and my contribution "pork pies", which quite clearly ain't nice is it, in fact it has taken it's toll and scared me, to conclude I don't give a monkeys about anythings but I do have a concern that you still will not be member of our fraternal scene and share with all brothers & sisters present and past, I hope you understand my issue with you?

moving on in line with the thread what villainy have our seen or been part of in the early days of the Northern Soul scene, and just for my final question what was your favorite all nighter that you attended in 72 to 75, as a RED you would have gone to the Whee then you and me would not have this stupid rap, so unless you call me a liar for the 4th time I will wish you a Good Day Sir and keep the carrot crunching to a minimum, I thank you. DAVE PS When I moved to Wolves there were the Wolverhampton Blacks I suppose they were a bit like your FIRM ??BYE BYE X

[Guest Eastbank Bootboy]

ok enough

ask both of you to take this ongoing exchange to pms or email

thanks

No worries Mike

[Chalky]

Dave, can we knock the terrace talk on the head, Mike asked you to stop and take your grievance with Eastbank Bootboy to PM's or emails, not on here.

Whilst we are at it can we get back to the topic of SOUL Scene villains, not football terrace villains or hooligans. Couldn't care less what folk got up to on a Saturday afternoon, we are more concerned what folk got up to on a Saturday night at an all-nighter. Anymore football and will close the topic, stop spoiling it for others please.

[Dave Moore]

Dave, can we knock the terrace talk on the head, Mike asked you to stop and take your grievance with Eastbank Bootboy to PM's or emails, not on here.

Whilst we are at it can we get back to the topic of SOUL Scene villains, not football terrace villains or hooligans. Couldn't care less what folk got up to on a Saturday afternoon, we are more concerned what folk got up to on a Saturday night at an all-nighter. Anymore football and will close the topic, stop spoiling it for others please.

Aww, Chalky....I was enjoying that! Great comedy writes itself. It was like a sketch from Harry Enfield and Chums!!

Regards,

Dave

[Guest Eastbank Bootboy]

My time on the scene doesnt go back to the 6ts, but it always makes me smile when ever I come across some of the sugary, naive nicey, nicey views of the scene some have..........yes, people on the scene will come together to look after thier own usually & I have made some of the best friends I have made anywhere on the scene & generally the darker side is not very overt these days, but scratch the seedy under belly........ .

Anyway, anyone for a nice cake, a nearby hotel or a latte, 'sorry not going this week as I have no money, its too far or what ever', back then, you made the Nighter anyway you could, I could only afford to get the train to Wigan once a month, the rest of the time was jumping the train, hitching, stolen cars (once) & making enough money in other ways to get there next week.

There are some fantastic people, I have made great friends, I have seen immense acts of loyalty & generosity, but the dark side was there alright & can still be too........

Russ

I know it's been criticised, but I always thought that Pete McKenna's book is a fair representation of the non-sugary side. Cracking read too

[dthedrug]

Hi Mike I think it was time to move on as I was getting bored, I personally have no issues with our man and would buy him pint any day, But I do think members in general should not hide behind name and give negative insults just for the sake of it, as it's at best will cause a reaction, as it becomes all one way traffic, I enjoy the subject on the early days of how the scene developed, and the very fact that you could meet people at a All Nighters on a Saturday from diff rant parts of the country and get the traditional Soul Scene hand shake, and only hours earlier they would be on the terraces ready to fight someone who supported another team, the odds on the scene developing were against,

Again I stress the subject matter of the thread had moved to a personal attack, as such I hope that the lesson turns out to promote the fraternal side of the rare soul scene, that I have been a part off for 43 years, lets see? Dave

[Godzilla]

I'm as soft as baby, can't stand football and have never been convicted of an offence - yet I bet I know know more criminals that Dave and Bootboy combined. How ironic

....does that make me 'real'?

[Guest proudlove]

You work in the prison service then?

[Guest]

You work in the prison service then?

Or a bank !!

[Godzilla]

You work in the prison service then?

Probation but close enough

Or a bank !!

I don't know that many villains, Ken!

[Guest proudlove]

Reply of the year so far mate..............quality!

[Wilxy]

I'm as soft as baby, can't stand football and have never been convicted of an offence - yet I bet I know know more criminals that Dave and Bootboy combined. How ironic

....does that make me 'real'?

You aren't the Godzfather are you? ........I'll get my coat

[Guest]

A couple of days ago I honestly hadn't come across someone that had taken the piss out of me. Now I have. What is amazing is how much this bloke has taken from a lot of my friends yet still manages to mingle amongst us!

It just shows how quickly people forget. I wont and for a small amount compared to many complainants.

Aaron Rob Watts.

Do not trust this man.

[Guest POTTERIESPECK]

LEEDS AWAY --- 1974/75 I THINK --- IF THATS THE GAME WE LOST EITHER 2-1 OR 3-1 I WAS THERE TOO. STOKE TOOK TWO TRAINS WITH NEARLY 1500 LADS, NOT A BAD CREW FOR THOSE DAY'S BUT THERE WERE LOTS OF CLUBS WHO HAD BIGGER ONES. WELL ONE THING FOR CERTAIN WAS FROM THE MOMENT WE GOT OF THE TRAIN WE WERE OK FOR ABOUT 5 MINUTES, AFTER THAT GAME OVER AND WE GOT F*CKED FROM PILLAR TO POST ALL DAY, NIGHTMARE FROM START TO FINNISH, IF YOU'VE READ STOKE'S NAUGHTY BOOK I WROTE THE ARTICAL HOW IT WAS. ALL THIS B*LLOCKS OF THESE WHO'VE NEVER BEEN ON THE TOES,. I 'M ALONG THE LINES OF DAVE'S THEROY THAT EVEN MID 70'S LOTS OF FOLK WERE INVOLVED IN THE SOUL SCENE AND THE FOOTBALL CULTURE. I MISSED SEEING JACKIE WILSON AT WIGAN AS OUR TRAIN BROKE DOWN AT CONGLETON ON THE WAY BACK FROM A BURNLEY V STOKE FOOTIE GAME, WAS TRULY GUTTED.BUT THAT LEEDS V STOKE GAME STILL HAUNTS ME TO THIS DAY.

Edited April 10, 2011 by POTTERIESPECK

[Guest Nick Harrison]

Johnny Warner etc..not saying these are villains btw.

Would that be little Johnny Warner who nomaded between Skipton and Colne in the early to mid seventies Kev ? But then there was only one Mr Warner, who at the time demonstrated many ugly and distasteful sides on and off the scene. If so - Kev............last spotted Johnny and another well known criminal drinking in my local pub, would be the early 1990's, both were exchanging stories of there times in various prison's across this land of our's. .

[Mak]

Steve

Yes you're right, between the Torch and Wigan it was er "hectic"

As for good dancers being nutcases, have you spoke to Frank New aka Booper

Shelly

Seem to remember him and a a mate ( Ian Shipside ?) coming down to Ripley on Thursday night , met them on the market place and was invited to go with them to , lets just say else where ! . Luckily I refused the offer . They along with an old school buddy of yours ended up becoming vvvvvvery unstuck .

[shelly]

Ayup Mak,

Old school buddy got off, you refused the invite, and I think I was out of the country, not on the run before anyone comments, so Techy's actually learnt something.

Drop me a pm re the Poets, Tim and Bonsall fancy an afternoon.

Shelly

[Guest TrimmTrab]

wasnt at nites in the 60s or 70s but for me the scooter rallies of the 80s were full of trouble including north/south divide and football related...still got photos of the aftermath of mini riot in a pub at lunchtime lunchtime,cant remember where,one seaside town looks the same as another 25 years on!.....all scooterists drinkin together to start with...then the football songs started as the pints went down...then the pub got smashed to bits...my photos of the two sides on opposite side of the street with black police vans everywhere...

can also remember the clacton 'mod' rally in 85,been to a tony class do we seemed to be the only ones not from london..sitting on a wall outside a chippy too pissed to stand,someone talking to me about london next thing he twats me around the head with a walking stick with a metal handle..as you'd expect i went down like a sack of s***..can remember hearing my mate sticking up for me and he got some too...his mrs wouldnt speak to me for weeks

i dont do so many scooter rallies today and they like the soul scene arnt so violent but its still there sometimes...weston last year or the year before..bristol and cardiff,started over pushing at the bar but local football rivalry probably didnt help...that was in the main venue and you could feel the tension as soon as you went in so we went back to the 'soul only' venue where it was a lot more chilled

as for the ' casuals' in the 80s can remember them ....as a scooterist had some run ins with them too !

think its all a bit more chilled today on the whole as MOST people have grown up and couldnt give a f*** anymore,nuffin to prove

also some shit gear sold on rallies back then...so im told

dean

That wasn't Redcar you were referring to at the beginning was it?? About 85/86 (ish)??

[Guest soash]

, and just for my final question what was your favorite all nighter that you attended in 72 to 75, as a RED you would have gone to the Whee then you and me would not have this stupid rap,

Seeing as how the Wheel closed in January '71, the reds must've been time travellers to have gone there 72 to 75..............

[Guest Byrney]

That wasn't Redcar you were referring to at the beginning was it?? About 85/86 (ish)??

Bloody hell. If its the night I'm thinking of it wasn't a full rally but a big one night scooter doo, I got nicked at that fight. Although the battle wasnt really Casuals Vs Scooterists as such, it was Redcar / Boro Vs other casuals i.e us - Derby, Nottingham, Norwich and some lads from the Home Counties. Our lot were casuals who had scooters, one of my mates was Djing so we were not there for a kick off. Boro had us down as Service Crew if I remember correctly so jolly capers ensued.

I think there was friction in the south between casuals and scooterists / mods but in the Midlands lots of casuals had scooters e.g. Notts Brittainia - a mix of FEC and DLF lads (unusual mix that) so we had a very different relationship.

[Guest soash]

I think there was friction in the south between casuals and scooterists / mods but in the Midlands lots of casuals had scooters e.g. Notts Brittainia - a mix of FEC and DLF lads (unusual mix that) so we had a very different relationship.

The whole territorial fighting thing was midlands/southern - certainly in the 60's. It simply didn't exist in the north.

From 66-71, I went to the Mojo in Sheffield, The Wheel in Manchester, the BeeGee in Leeds, the Tin Chicken in Castleford, the Metro in Wakefield, as well as Huddersfield, Halifax, Bradford, Dewsbury, Earby - all over the place. There was simply NO territorial resentment - in fact one of the magic things about those places was meeting like-minded faces from all all points of the compass.

Ok, you got the "rollers" down the Wheel, who would try to rob your new shirt or jacket (a disadvantage of taking an overnight bag!), but that wasn't territorial, it was just theft!

I knew a guy in around '68 who was the first "skin" I'd ever met. Shaven head, mohair suit and brogues, but on a Saturday night, when our bags were packed for the Wheel, his bag had a pair of steel-tipped docs in it, and off he went down to Leicester for a "scuffle". Every Saturday! Barmy!

The only trouble we ever got was from the Dewsbury crowd at Earlsheaton Youth Club in '67/68, cause they thought the Wakefield crowd were stealing their women! But no organised fighting - we just learned to run fast! (and yes, they were right, we WERE stealing their women!)

By 1972, the Mod scene was well dead, so what came after it may well have been violent, especially as the skins were in their element by then, But territorial fighting amonst Mods in Northern England in the 60's? Nah

Edited May 11, 2011 by soash

[Guest Byrney]

The whole territorial fighting thing was midlands/southern - certainly in the 60's. It simply didn't exist in the north.

I was referring to the 80s Soash, the context of my post was not in relation to the scene but football casuals, scooterists etc

[Guest soash]

That's cool, mate. I was refering the broader gist of the thread, which is that the fighting "crews" were somehow related to the soul scene.

[Mak]

a mix of FEC and DLF lads (unusual mix that)

NEVER

I spit at the thought

[Guest Byrney]

NEVER

I spit at the thought

Fraid so Mucker :lol:

Don't worry you'll be siding with them (Often No Change) with Alfreton's promotion

[Chalky]

That's cool, mate. I was refering the broader gist of the thread, which is that the fighting "crews" were somehow related to the soul scene.

The gist of this topic is soul scene villains, what some got up to on the soul scene at all-nighters etc as explained in the very first post, not what some of you got up to on a Saturday afternoon at the footie match. Can we stick to the topic as I've asked before, I for one have no wish to come on a soul forum and read football violence.

[Guest southpaw]

Bloody hell. If its the night I'm thinking of it wasn't a full rally but a big one night scooter doo, I got nicked at that fight. Although the battle wasnt really Casuals Vs Scooterists as such, it was Redcar / Boro Vs other casuals i.e us - Derby, Nottingham, Norwich and some lads from the Home Counties. Our lot were casuals who had scooters, one of my mates was Djing so we were not there for a kick off. Boro had us down as Service Crew if I remember correctly so jolly capers ensued.

I think there was friction in the south between casuals and scooterists / mods but in the Midlands lots of casuals had scooters e.g. Notts Brittainia - a mix of FEC and DLF lads (unusual mix that) so we had a very different relationship.

wash your mouth out young man :thumbsup:

Hope your keeping well Byrney

[Guest roggert]

Hi Shelly,think Brendan (Muldoon) no longer with us as well.Pete Studge still around sort of.As Olly says,he's got some tales,right character.You'll know Mick Padley (Pags),Johnny Warner etc..not saying these are villains btw.

hey up shell and co. brendan muldoon a name from my nefarious past an studge also dave kettle and terry bramley cracking chemists robbing fighting all good old boys -if you were on their right side woe betide disagreeing with emmust have been something in the air round mansfield

Edited May 11, 2011 by roggert

[Guest soash]

The gist of this topic is soul scene villains, what some got up to on the soul scene at all-nighters etc as explained in the very first post, not what some of you got up to on a Saturday afternoon at the footie match. Can we stick to the topic as I've asked before, I for one have no wish to come on a soul forum and read football violence.

You are dead right, chalky, in saying that's how the thread was started, but the "gist" I was referring to was the way the thread has been hijacked to seemingly link soul clubs with football clubs and their associated mob violence.

I too do not understand why this stuff is on a soul site

[Guest roggert]

The whole territorial fighting thing was midlands/southern - certainly in the 60's. It simply didn't exist in the north.

From 66-71, I went to the Mojo in Sheffield, The Wheel in Manchester, the BeeGee in Leeds, the Tin Chicken in Castleford, the Metro in Wakefield, as well as Huddersfield, Halifax, Bradford, Dewsbury, Earby - all over the place. There was simply NO territorial resentment - in fact one of the magic things about those places was meeting like-minded faces from all all points of the compass.

Ok, you got the "rollers" down the Wheel, who would try to rob your new shirt or jacket (a disadvantage of taking an overnight bag!), but that wasn't territorial, it was just theft!

I knew a guy in around '68 who was the first "skin" I'd ever met. Shaven head, mohair suit and brogues, but on a Saturday night, when our bags were packed for the Wheel, his bag had a pair of steel-tipped docs in it, and off he went down to Leicester for a "scuffle". Every Saturday! Barmy!

The only trouble we ever got was from the Dewsbury crowd at Earlsheaton Youth Club in '67/68, cause they thought the Wakefield crowd were stealing their women! But no organised fighting - we just learned to run fast! (and yes, they were right, we WERE stealing their women!)

By 1972, the Mod scene was well dead, so what came after it may well have been violent, especially as the skins were in their element by then, But territorial fighting amonst Mods in Northern England in the 60's? Nah

hi have to agree with you! you were around at the same time as me 65 the mojo /the king mojo including the big drug squad bust - till it became the beautiful mojo! andthe marquee in the smoke for a few monthsin 66 .that dump in dewsbury -the only thing i remember was hearing -the fife piper for the first time. also.from 66 to the close at the wheel with the abadi brothers -earls barton dogtrack in northampton1968/9,tinned chicken in shitty castleford ,the blue orchid at draycott near derby an clouds, the only problem s were the robbing bastards out to roll you from shoes to coats /mainly at the wheel ,only real ultraviolence i saw was art the leicester nite owlsaturday all niter after a friday night alniter in birmingham and a youth had been razored badly, blood dripping from many cuts ,violence really seemed to start only when it was glamorised in the press near the end of the decade, getting rolled for a ticket was the real menace at a lot of niters !

[dthedrug]

Seeing as how the Wheel closed in January '71, the reds must've been time travelers to have gone there 72 to 75.............. :thumbsup:

HI ALL....SOASH, LOOKING AT THE QUOTE THAT I MADE..... It does look like I was talking about the Wheel still running, and you and I no it closed in 71, the point I was trying to identify where the man was coming from? as we were talking about the cockney reds, and as he was hiding behind his soul source identity it got me frustrated, as I was saying to him that back in the late 60s & early 70s the team that you supported was for most your local team only a small amount of people supported teams more than 50 miles away, normally it was people who lived in counties that did not have a team in the 1-4 Divisions, this is why people at the time who lived in Hearts,Bucks & Cambridge supported London teams as Luton or Norwich were not attractive enough, living in Hartford shire with London 30 minutes away on the train and 5 team pick from and most picked Spurs or Ares and all! I picked West Ham because of family connections to the club it could have easy been QPR as that was the other family team, back then Chelsea were nothing and most people with Irish backgrounds were QPR, and in the north the Irish followed Leeds.

Also post 1967 many young people started to r afield and with the use of soft drugs such as speed, and the integration of BLACK & WHITE Youth, the working class kids went on what was traditionally fora in turf or a no go manor, the north was very alien to the people from the south east of England, and it is a fact, that relationships with Black people were healed by many white kids the liking for the people in the North,

I believe people like John Abbey and Dave Goddin, had also picked up this LONDON prejudice to-wards the north, even record reviews in BLUES & SOUL pointed out that the north started at Watford and in the Dave Goddin column he talks about the north in a backward manor, "strange world of northerners listening to old Motown type music" and reinforces this by writing about when selling records from his shop by stating " that if a northern person entered the shop treat them different" I am sure that "god bless him" today his article that made him famous the world over would not have been written,

going back to our cockney red Friend, t was if he was so knowledgeable about what happened at Upton Park he would have known me if he had been going to the Wheel, and what was his all nightie following it's closure, as he would have gone to the Cats TORCH & JUNCTION, I stand by my comments that I never met any Cockney Reds and the London I know cant remember them at the time he states and he would have been a target for a good kick in by the majority of 15 to 19 who supported any London team,

To conclude i must state that MANCHESTER UNITED are one of the worlds greatest football clubs and do have supporters around the world, as for the issue of men acting like 16 year olds following football just to have a knuckle i say grow up, as an old bovver boy they are rubbish this includes members of the ICF THE SOUL CREW COCKNEY REDS AND SO ON, OVER THE YEARS THEY ARE PROVED TO BE WEEK AND ONLY FIGHT THE VULNERABLE, ONLY EXIST BECAUSE THEY ROAD ON THE BACK OF THE ORIGINAL WEST HAM NORTH BANK & CHICKEN RUN, AND HAVE NOTHING IN COMMON WITH THE SPIRIT OF 69, DAGENHAM DAVE TSOF 69 KIL

[dthedrug]

Seeing as how the Wheel closed in January '71, the reds must've been time travellers to have gone there 72 to 75.............. :no:

Seeing as how the Wheel closed in January '71, the reds must've been time travelers to have gone there 72 to 75.............. src=" ' alt='' class='ipsImage' >"> src=" ' alt='' class='ipsImage' >"> HI ALL....SOASH, LOOKING AT THE QUOTE THAT I MADE..... It does look like I was talking about the Wheel still running, and you and I no it closed in 71, the point I was trying to identify where the man was coming from? as we were talking about the cockney reds, and as he was hiding behind his soul source identity it got me frustrated, as I was saying to him that back in the late 60s & early 70s the team that you supported was for most your local team only a small amount of people supported teams more than 50 miles away, normally it was people who lived in counties that did not have a team in the 1-4 Divisions, this is why people at the time who lived in Hearts,Bucks & Cambridge supported London teams as Luton or Norwich were not attractive enough, living in Hartford shire with London 30 minutes away on the train and 5 team pick from and most picked Spurs or Ares and all! I picked West Ham because of family connections to the club it could have easy been QPR as that was the other family team, back then Chelsea were nothing and most people with Irish backgrounds were QPR, and in the north the Irish followed Leeds.
Also post 1967 many young people started to r afield and with the use of soft drugs such as speed, and the integration of BLACK & WHITE Youth, the working class kids went on what was traditionally fora in turf or a no go manor, the north was very alien to the people from the south east of England, and it is a fact, that relationships with Black people were healed by many white kids the liking for the people in the North,
I believe people like John Abbey and Dave Goddin, had also picked up this LONDON prejudice to-wards the north, even record reviews in BLUES & SOUL pointed out that the north started at Watford and in the Dave Goddin column he talks about the north in a backward manor, "strange world of northerners listening to old Motown type music" and reinforces this by writing about when selling records from his shop by stating " that if a northern person entered the shop treat them different" I am sure that "god bless him" today his article that made him famous the world over would not have been written,
going back to our cockney red Friend, t was if he was so knowledgeable about what happened at Upton Park he would have known me if he had been going to the Wheel, and what was his all nightie following it's closure, as he would have gone to the Cats TORCH & JUNCTION, I stand by my comments that I never met any Cockney Reds and the London I know cant remember them at the time he states and he would have been a target for a good kick in by the majority of 15 to 19 who supported any London team,
To conclude i must state that MANCHESTER UNITED are one of the worlds greatest football clubs and do have supporters around the world, as for the issue of men acting like 16 year olds following football just to have a knuckle i say grow up, as an old bovver boy they are rubbish this includes members of the ICF THE SOUL CREW COCKNEY REDS AND SO ON, OVER THE YEARS THEY ARE PROVED TO BE WEEK AND ONLY FIGHT THE VULNERABLE, ONLY EXIST BECAUSE THEY ROAD ON THE BACK OF THE ORIGINAL WEST HAM NORTH BANK & CHICKEN RUN, AND HAVE NOTHING IN COMMON WITH THE SPIRIT OF 69, src=" "> DAGENHAM DAVE TSOF 69 KIL

[Guest soash]

I believe people like John Abbey and Dave Goddin, had also picked up this LONDON prejudice to-wards the north, even record reviews in BLUES & SOUL pointed out that the north started at Watford and in the Dave Goddin column he talks about the north in a backward manor, "strange world of northerners listening to old Motown type music" and reinforces this by writing about when selling records from his shop by stating " that if a northern person entered the shop treat them different" I am sure that "god bless him" today his article that made him famous the world over would not have been written,

I lived for a while in Kent back in 1970, and used to see Dave Godin regularly. He used to recommend sounds for me to take up to Yorkshire to play at the Metro Saturday sessions and all-nighters which I ran. Gotta say, if he didn't like northerners, he never showed that side to me. The fact that he knew what kind of sounds we liked was cool. He also said, in Blues & Soul, that "Open The Door To Your Heart" By Darrell Banks was his all-time favourite record. Doesn't sound too anti to me. The guy was a gent.

Edited May 11, 2011 by soash

[Chalky]

You are dead right, chalky, in saying that's how the thread was started, but the "gist" I was referring to was the way the thread has been hijacked to seemingly link soul clubs with football clubs and their associated mob violence.

I too do not understand why this stuff is on a soul site

I know where the gist of the thread has gone and it has to get back to what it is supposed to be about, soul music and the villians at all-nighters and on the scene. As I said leave the football off it, if you want to talk football there is a chat and sports section in freebasing, this is a soul forum. Many thanks

[dthedrug]

I lived for a while in Kent back in 1970, and used to see Dave Godin regularly. He used to recommend sounds for me to take up to Yorkshire to play at the Metro Saturday sessions and all-nighters which I ran. Gotta say, if he didn't like northerners, he never showed that side to me. The fact that he knew what kind of sounds we liked was cool. He also said, in Blues & Soul, that "Open The Door To Your Heart" By Darrell Banks was his all-time favorite record. Doesn't sound too anti to me. The guy was a gent. :no:

HI ALL...I think you are point I was making and period that is also very relevant to my part in the discussion which is about Villon's who we knew who where on the soul scene, my original write up was on the early days and how our scene grew from a working class structure that was engrossed in what was scene as prim & proper, and over the ten years that had passed, introduced the country to a new demographic and a up Havel in society, in London Bristol & Liverpool they feel the society change and to hear the voice of young men & women turn from, at the age of 14 you become a man or woman, as it had been for the previous 50 years, and now they had all become teenagers, which in the main was despised by the elders who went to war, and as such were never allowed to question their elders, without a clip around the ear or the threat of corporal punishment,

Sadly Dave is no longer with us, but I don't think he would disagree with my point of view, Dave was a good intellectual and even though I also met him and went to his shop and of course he loved the underground soul movement in the north existed and his fascination of the depth of it' membership would go to gain further knowledge about the many 100s of Black Americans who had given up every thing to gain fame but failed, while London was more in touch with the current scene and change of music style soul music in 1968 and the current affairs of the time such as wars famine space travel civil rights and a more liberal way of life, this meant of coarse challenge the old laws to new laws especially on race & equal rightest the age of 16 in 1967 my knowledge was gain through liefs e than through a good school education, as I was one of the kids at school that your mum told you to keep away from, so like yourself I had lived up north for 3 years in a kids home, as such through personal expedience i witnessed the north south divide,

Back to Dave Godin my question is did you meet Dave or did you know Dave, as I met him but did not know him and the word he lived in was very much a big taboo, while John Abbey went to the Flamingo & Tiles, Dave would be more relaxed in Old Compton St, life back then was not as romantic as younger people think the 60s was like, for Dave it was much tougher & he run a very high risk of imprisonment, me I was just a teenage delinquent, once again we owe a lot to Dave, and I hope you can understand now where I was coming from as not everything is transparent, as it seems or as golden, Dave

[Petedillon]

I'll back Soash up on the Dave Godin thing. I met Dave several times, indeed he stayed at my house in Leeds and we exchanged letters on numerous occasions(I still have these now). He was definitely not anti-North as has been suggested. Indeed he stated he would love to move up north(which he eventually did or part of the way!).

Edited May 12, 2011 by PeteDillon

[Guest soash]

Back to Dave Godin my question is did you meet Dave or did you know Dave, as I met him but did not know him and the word he lived in was very much a big taboo,

Yes,I did know Dave Godin. I used to go to his house in Beaconsfield, where he lived with his dear old mum. And yes, he was gay - and no, I'm not - but I did sit in his bedroom listening to sounds on many an evening.

Gotta say, mate, I fail to see what the bloke's sexuality had to do with his views on northerners

Edited May 12, 2011 by soash

[dthedrug]

Yes,I did know Dave Godin. I used to go to his house in Beaconsfield, where he lived with his dear old mum. And yes, he was gay - and no, I'm not - but I did sit in his bedroom listening to sounds on many an evening.

Gotta say, mate, I fail to see what the bloke's sexuality had to do with his views on northerners

HI "SOASH" i WAS JUST USING DAVE AS AN EXAMPLE THAT WAY BACK AT THE START OF THE SCENE, THAT EVEN THE GOOD GUYS ON THE SCENE,HAD TO KEEP A EYE OPEN TO THE LAWS OF THE UK, AS SUCH BACK IN 67 STILL ILLEGAL TO HAVE A SAME SEX PARTNER, AND THATS ALL, IT WAS A 60000000 to 1 chance THAT YOU WOULD SAY I USED TOD HIS MUMS HOUSE? AND I AM ALSO NOT HOMOPHOBIC, BUT BACK THEN EVEN THOUGH GAYS WERE NOT VILLAINS EXCEPT FOR RON & REG AND SOME MEMBERS OF THE BBC ALONG WITH HMS GAN-GEES, NO NO NOT REALLY, BUT DAVE DID BREAK THE LAW AND WAS NOT AS TRANSPARENT THAT ON MEETING HIM, I DON'T RECALL HIM MINCING OR THINK HE WAS GAY, I SUPPOSE IT WAS THE SAME WITH IAN IN BLACKPOOL, A MARDI FFER YES, ENOUGH OF THIS STUFF, IF THINGS COULD NOT GET ANY WORSE FOR ME, JUST A JIMMY AND I AM PEEING BLOOD, THAT GONNA MUCK UP MY NON ACTIVITY WEEKEND?// I AM NOT MAKEING THIS UP

DAVE THE BLOOD,

[Guest TrimmTrab]

back then Chelsea were nothing and most people with Irish backgrounds were QPR, and in the north the Irish followed Leeds.

Ha ha ha ha ha ha .... stop it now, you're making yourself look silly

[macca]

Soul scene villains, perhaps the thread title should be changed, got to admit it's bit on the arcane side.

[Winnie :-)]

Just before you do cos I'd rather have the truth than a tall tale ..... Chelsea's average attendance for the period 1961 to 1970

1961 > 30,156

1962 > 27,013

1963 > 29,376

1964 > 31,305

1965 > 37,054

1966 > 31,346

1967 > 35,591

1968 > 35,979

1969 > 37,613

1970 > 40,342

Averages out at 33,577 hardly nothing is it fella. In the meantime, the marshmen's record ever attendance is a mere 42,000! Yeah in that period that you mentioned, we only won a league cup and an FA cup, and West Ham won ... er 2 cups as well. Or are you counting the World Cup as you lot always like to do ... you know ... West Ham won the world Cup blah blah blah. Before this of course, we won our first league title, just remind me, how many have gone to the Boleyn???? Errrrrr ...... nitto! You aint even managed a runners up finish. As for QPR and Fulham being bigger than us, well ... if you wanna make yourself look even more of a whopper ... go ahead!

To be honest, I have a lot of time for West Ham, they have a loyal and partizan fan base and I was sorry to see them go down. A Chelsea / West Ham derby in whatever league has got a bit more about it than the replacements for next season ... Norwich and Reading. I respect match going fans of all clubs, irrespective of on and off field rivalries as you can see from any posts I've made regarding football. What gets my back up is when someone comes out with a load of total rubbish regarding my team and, before you ask, my team Ive been following home and away since the 70s.

I know this has gone right off topic but I aint too keen on fairy tales, I'd rather facts.

Tally Ho

My memories don't tally up with Dave's either. In 67 I'd just gone up to secondary school in Hendon, used to go to spurs as it was one bus ride to Arnos grove from my house, so my Mum was ok with it. At school and at Spurs the buzz at the time was about Chelsea and the shed, they were on the up and their supporters were feared. As I remember they were one of the best supported teams inside and outside London, and even had a sprinkling of supporters at my school which was basically split between Spurs and the scum. Don't recall anybody particularly respecting wham or their supporters, maybe we were too steeped in tradition? All a long time ago so memories are fading but that's how I recall that particular time.

Winnie

[Chalky]

Dave, Trim, this is the last time I'm going to tell you, this is a soul forum not football. Take the football to the sports forum in freebasing!!!

[dthedrug]

Dave, Trim, this is the last time I'm going to tell you, this is a soul forum not football. Take the football to the sports forum in freebasing!!!

HI CHALKS WILL DO, BUT THIS IS ONLY LITE HARTED VERBAL BANTERING AND IT IS NO MORE THAN THAT, EVERY LONDON FAN IS AWARE THAT UPTON PARK, IS THE PLACE TO BE AND BACK IN THE DAY, APART FROM THE ARSENAL. OTHER THE GROUNDS WERE A BALL, REMEMBER THE SONG "TIP TOE THROUGH THE PARK LANE IN YOUR PLIMSOLLS AND YOUR PLASTIC FLICK KNIVES" AND THE CLASSIC "BERTIE MEE SAID TO BILL SHANKLEY, HAVE YOU HERED OF THE NORTH BANK HIGHBURY?..SHANKS SAID NO I DONT THINK SO! BUT I HAVE HERED OF THE NORTH BANK WEST HAM" " I'M FOREVER THROWING BOTTLES......" I HERE THE SOUNDS OF DISTANT BUMS, OVER THERE OVER THERE, AND DO THEY SMELL LIKE F******G HELL THATS ALL FOLKS APART FROM YOU DID NOT HAVE TO CENSOR MY LAST WRITE UP? THE END DAVE

[shelly]

hey up shell and co. brendan muldoon a name from my nefarious past an studge also dave kettle and terry bramley cracking chemists robbing fighting all good old boys -if you were on their right side woe betide disagreeing with emmust have been something in the air round mansfield

Talking about that neck of the woods( or wild dog land) to give it it's true name, what about Messrs Jimmy Fay and Ray Evans from Ilkeston, apart from knocking off Julie Driscoll, Jimmy and Ray where a right pair, as you say, great to be on their side!

[Guest POTTERIESPECK]

CODDY HUGHES FROM STOKE TORCH WIGAN, etc i'm sure most the elder lads will remember him. CODDY GOT SHOT + KILLED FOLLOWING HIS BELOVED STOKE IN COLCHESTER ON THE WAY BACK FROM IPSWICH. I REMEMBER SOME MASSIVE FIRMS IN THE EARLY TO MID -70's. REMEMBER MAN UTD COMING STOKE AND TAKING THE BOOTHEN END AND TE ONLY EVER TO TAKE IT. BUT IN MY EYES IT WAS'NT DONE WITH QUALITY IT WAS DONE WITH QUANTITY. MY LOYALTY FOR MY MUSIC AND FOOTBALL TEAM RAN HAND IN HAND. WHEN IT ALL CAME ON TOP AT A FOOTIE GAME I KNEW THE FACES WHO WERE DANCING WITH ME AS THEY WERE LOCAL POTTERIES LADS.BUT EVEN THOUGH WE HAD SOME BEATINGS WE HAD A GOOD BANTER ABOUT IT IN THE WEEK ABOUT HOW WE CAME UNSTUCK OR HOW IT ALL WENT WRONG, BUT LOOKING BACK YOU MAINLY GOT A KICKING IN THEM DAY'S BY BEING OUT NUMBERED. IN THEM DAYS THE SAME SIZED CLUBS WERE ALWAYS THE BEST DAYS . STOKE V WOLVES HOME OR AWAY WAS HECTIC ALL DAY., BUT THEY WERE PROBABLY THE SAME AS STOKE. WHEN IT GET'S A BIT IFFY YOU WANT TO KNOW THE FOLK YOU ARE STANDING WITH YOU AND THOSE FACES YOU DON'T RECORNISE. ANY F*KER CAN SAY WELL I'LL GO FOLLOW THIS OR THAT TEAM, CAUSE THEY'VE GOT THE BIGGEST FOLLOWING, ALL B*LLOCKS IN MY EYES. A lLOCAL TEAM FOR LOCAL PEOPLE.

[macca]

here we go again...

[shelly]

I give up, what happened on a Saturday afternoon, stayed on a Saturday afternoon.

You saw and where even mates at the nighter with the biggest load knobheads when they're were at the footy, even had a load of mates from Notts and in footy terms not possible.

So can we get back to reality and understand that Saturday afternoon and Saturday night was kept apart, and lets get back to the interesting scams and those that carried them out that were a part of the regular Saturday night.

Remember being approached in Sams one night by Sean and being asked to look after his gear as two guys from Derby where going to kill him, shared some, sold the rest and when he asked fr it back at 4am told him to get real.

The two guys from Derby where going to kill him because they thought me and G hadn't any gear(wrong) and he thought I was a trustworthy sort.

Oh Happy Days

[westrex]

I remember a guy called "Larry Lightening" who used to stand in the doorway of the beachcomber cafe

adjacent to the casino asking every one to lend him 10p. He asked me to lend him 10 pence to make a

phone call to a friend, I said, "here's 20 pence, ring all of 'em"

Tony Warot (certified loanshark)