Jimmy Mack

[grantdyche]

Just looking through some label scans and came upon Alexander Patton "A lil lovin sometimes" On a Capitol demo,

The single was produced by Jimmy Mack,

Is this the same person who sang "My world is on fire",

And is there any connection with this Jimmy Mack and the one mentioned in the Martha and The Vandellas record of JM

Thanks in advance

Grant

[The Yank]

The Jimmy Mack that produced Alexander Patten was also known as James McKeachin and is not related to the other two Jimmys.

[Shinehead]

The Jimmy Mack that produced Alexander Patten was also known as James McKeachin and is not related to the other two Jimmys.

So will this be the same Jimmy Mack who also produced The Furys amongs others, who later became the TV and movie actor James Mceachin of Tenafly fame, who was also a decorated soldier.

[grantdyche]

So will this be the same Jimmy Mack who also produced The Furys amongs others, who later became the TV and movie actor James Mceachin of Tenafly fame, who was also a decorated soldier.

Was the Jimmy Mack from the Martha track based on a real person ?

Was Jimmy Mack of "MYIOF" known by another name ?

[Shinehead]

Was the Jimmy Mack from the Martha track based on a real person ?

Was Jimmy Mack of "MYIOF" known by another name ?

The song Jimmy Mack was written as a tribute to a deceased song writer named Ronnie Mack .

Edited February 24, 2011 by shinehead

[Weingarden]

Then there's this guy:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jimmy_McMillan

(see "Personal info")

Same dude.

[Guest]

And this fella

And this geezer

[Ian Dewhirst]

Well, who's this guy then...........?

Recorded on Big Tree with Gwen Owens and the Invitations!

Jimmie Mack

Ian D

Edited February 23, 2011 by Ian Dewhirst

[Tony Smith]

Nice one Ian, you had for for a mo', back to the...... wasnt 't he Martha boyfriend that Berry had stiffed coz he he was too good looking. ya-da-da-ya-da

[Guest Paul]

Then there's this guy:

https://en.wikipedia..../Jimmy_McMillan

(see "Personal info")

Same dude.

I loved that track when it was new but I didn't know who he was.

And I'm still a bit confused.

Maybe it's an age thing?

Edited February 27, 2011 by Paul

[Guest Dave Turner]

Sussed it, mystery solved

[Sunnysoul]

So who is the Jimmy Mack who released a rather nifty version of The Hunter Gets Captured By The Game as Jimmy Mack & The Music Factory on Atlantic Records 45 45-2552.

[Blackpoolsoul]

On 28/02/2011 at 03:59, Sunnysoul said:

So who is the Jimmy Mack who released a rather nifty version of The Hunter Gets Captured By The Game as Jimmy Mack & The Music Factory on Atlantic Records 45 45-2552.

 

This group began life in the Penn Hills, Pennsylvania, in the 1960s where they performed in the Pittsburgh area as the popular local band known as The Igniters.

The Igniters, made up on musicians that included Ronnie “Byrd” Foster, Jeff Bobula, Bob McKeg, Joe Santavicca and Jackie Keir along with the singer Frank Czuri, were often seen at The Varsity House in Pittsburgh as its house band and gaining a large fan base with their renditions of the R&B and British Invasion popular songs of the day.

In 1968 The Igniters managed to gain themselves a recording contract from Atlantic Records which gave them the accolade of being only the second white act taken on by them.  However, the company decided they wanted them to change their name and after the possibility of Mack’s Factory was shelved, Jimmy Mack & The Music Factory came to be.

The released their single “Baby, I Love You”, which was originally a hit for The Ronettes, backed by “The Hunter Gets Captured By the Game” in the latter half of 1968 and managed to reach No. 41 on New Haven, Connecticut’s WAVZ.

This name for the group only survived for a brief time, however, when their name was changed yet again.  This time they became Friends and even though recording a single on the Atlantic Records label in 1970 it was not enough to keep them together and they went their own separate ways before much time had passed.

Many years later in 2003 the band, returning to their original name The Igniters, staged a reunion concert  in Harmarville, Pennsylvania.

https://sites.google.com/site/pittsburghmusichistory/pittsburgh-music-story/rock/the-igniters

[Mal C]

Just checking out the blurb on Tim Brown's auction this month, and at the Jimmy Mack he has up. Says still a great 'unknown'.

I'm fully aware this question doesnt have an answer, we don't know who this was, Tim Brown would have stated if his id was known, Im just interested in the most upto date ideas on who he was.

The above thread, to be honest just confuses me a bit, other than he isnt the guy that recorded on Hamster, and he's not likely the Jimmy Mack & The music Factory?

Any other credible notes on this one, does anybody know who had been asked about this session, Mike Terry, Mickey valvano, and Mike Coleman on the label, have all those guys been asked about this 45?

Was Mike Valvano lead of Mike and The Modifiers on Gordy? and Mike  Coleman was Mickey Coleman formerly of the Valadiers.

scan from Tim Browns

[Chalky]

As far as I am aware all who can or could be traced and asked have been asked.  No one seems to know anything about him.  Tis a proper mystery.

[Peter99]

sorted.

Edited November 28 by Peter99

[Simon T]

1 hour ago, Peter99 said:

sorted.

Talking of Jimmy Mack's "Go On", can someone remind me of who the other version is by, some bloke on 'Sound' out of Nashville ?

Edited November 28 by Simon T

[Tagtag]

Dave Hall - Look at Me

[Tagtag]

 

[Mal C]

Ohh thats good, havent hear that in yonks... good though it is, not quite as good as Jimmy Mack.

[Mal C]

So an open and closed case, we still don't who Jimmy Mack is!!! laughing

My fault for asking a bloody obvious question, but at least its thrown light on that other version of 'Go On'.

[Theothertosspot]

On 28/11/2024 at 10:16, Mal C said:

Just checking out the blurb on Tim Brown's auction this month, and at the Jimmy Mack he has up. Says still a great 'unknown'.

I'm fully aware this question doesnt have an answer, we don't know who this was, Tim Brown would have stated if his id was known, Im just interested in the most upto date ideas on who he was.

The above thread, to be honest just confuses me a bit, other than he isnt the guy that recorded on Hamster, and he's not likely the Jimmy Mack & The music Factory?

Any other credible notes on this one, does anybody know who had been asked about this session, Mike Terry, Mickey valvano, and Mike Coleman on the label, have all those guys been asked about this 45?

Was Mike Valvano lead of Mike and The Modifiers on Gordy? and Mike  Coleman was Mickey Coleman formerly of the Valadiers.

scan from Tim Browns

Probably been mentioned/asked before but the Jimmy Mack and Precisions on Drew (If This Is Love) have pretty much all the same credits. 

May there be a connection between the two

Edited November 29 by Theothertosspot

[Northernjordan12]

A few years ago, while working with MD Records and conducting Pioneer Studio research, I made a serious effort to delve into "Jimmy Mack" and "In The Pocket Music." The "In The Pocket" team, comprising Mike Valvano, Marty Coleman, and Cholly Bassoline, who frequently used Pioneer Studio for their demos, and Mike Valvano would use their piano. Of this songwriting trio, only Cholly Bassoline is still alive. He later became the manager of Parliament-Funkadelic, though he maintains a low profile and is only occasionally active on Facebook.

I managed to get in touch with a female friend of his who worked with him in 2021 at a furniture store in Phillipsburg, NJ. (Yes, he’s still working!) She kindly passed along some messages to Cholly, but unfortunately, he wasn’t able to shed any light on Jimmy Mack’s real identity.

Cholly did share some insights about his late colleagues. He said how Marty Coleman tragically died after being hit by a car on Woodward Avenue in Detroit, and how Mike Valvano passed away from a heart attack. He also mentioned that the Palmer Label was owned by Arc-Jay Kay Record Distributors, which was run by John Kaplan.

According to his friend, Cholly now lives "under the radar" and doesn’t have much more to share on the subject, nor does he remember the real identity of "Jimmy Mack"... 

[Solidsoul]

I'm pleased no one knows his true identity. It's good to have some mystery and unknown's in these times when the internet let's everyone know just about everything at their fingertips! 

[Northernjordan12]

I just spoke with Cholly's friend again. She's planning to give him a call about this thread to see if he can do any further asking around. Wasn't it previously suggested that it might possibly be 'Jimmy Soul Clark'?

[Chalky]

1 hour ago, Northernjordan12 said:

I just spoke with Cholly's friend again. She's planning to give him a call about this thread to see if he can do any further asking around. Wasn't it previously suggested that it might possibly be 'Jimmy Soul Clark'?

I think that is Richard Searling’s belief?

[Tlscapital]

Jimmy Mack would date May (or about) 1967. With a quote of its release in the BillBoard of May 13th 1967.

And the Precisions 'If This Is Love' appears in the issue of the BilBoard of August 12th 1967. 4 months later !

The Jimmy 'Soul' Clark theory holds water on datas and matching singing (with the Teek's gear) but until...

[Chalky]

Jimmy Soul Clark theory, not sure there is any fact behind it, more a belief rather than evidence based. I think if it was him someone would have known?

[Simon T]

31 minutes ago, Chalky said:

Jimmy Soul Clark theory, not sure there is any fact behind it, more a belief rather than evidence based. I think if it was him someone would have known?

yes, no, maybe?

 

 

[Tlscapital]

4 hours ago, Chalky said:

Jimmy Soul Clark theory, not sure there is any fact behind it, more a belief rather than evidence based. I think if it was him someone would have known?

Yes more of a 'belief' indeed but dates, places, peoples and similarity in voice and singing and first name make it a theory. Only that but it 'holds water' IMHO too.

[Robbk]

11 hours ago, Chalky said:

Jimmy Soul Clark theory, not sure there is any fact behind it, more a belief rather than evidence based. I think if it was him someone would have known?

My memory tells me that Jimmy "Soul" Clark's and Jimmy Mack's voices are different enough to be confident that they are not the same person.  I'll listen to all those cuts again to make sure.  I think any connection between them is just from collectors' guesses that became rumours.

[Robbk]

Just as I remembered, Jimmy Soul Clark's singing voice has a heavy nasal quality, and he sings in a slightly higher register than Jimmy Mack, who has a deeper quality, sort of in the background.  I think the latter could do well in baritone parts, whereas Jimmy Clark would have strained to get down there.  I really don't think they are the same person.

Edited December 4 by Robbk

[Chalky]

3 hours ago, Robbk said:

My memory tells me that Jimmy "Soul" Clark's and Jimmy Mack's voices are different enough to be confident that they are not the same person.  I'll listen to all those cuts again to make sure.  I think any connection between them is just from collectors' guesses that became rumours.

When it was first mooted Jimmy Mack was JSC I listened to both and felt they weren’t the same singer.  As far as I am aware there was no evidence to say they were the same, just a hunch.

[Northernjordan12]

On 29/11/2024 at 17:43, Tlscapital said:

Jimmy Mack would date May (or about) 1967. With a quote of its release in the BillBoard of May 13th 1967.

And the Precisions 'If This Is Love' appears in the issue of the BilBoard of August 12th 1967. 4 months later !

The Jimmy 'Soul' Clark theory holds water on datas and matching singing (with the Teek's gear) but until...

Is there a member of The Precisions still around who might remember the song from that era and share any details about it? Worth a shot... 

[Chalky]

Richard again mentioned on his show on Sunday that Jimmy Soul Clark is Jimmy Mack. No idea of the basis to this.

[Northernjordan12]

38 minutes ago, Chalky said:

Richard again mentioned on his show on Sunday that Jimmy Soul Clark is Jimmy Mack. No idea of the basis to this.

Hmmmm! 

[Blackpoolsoul]

2 hours ago, Chalky said:

Richard again mentioned on his show on Sunday that Jimmy Soul Clark is Jimmy Mack. No idea of the basis to this.

Mike Terry arranged Jimmy and People's Choice both May, 1967. Shame no one knows and goodness knows I and others have tried. I think it's a long gone ask, but here's hoping.

[Chalky]

42 minutes ago, Blackpoolsoul said:

Mike Terry arranged Jimmy and People's Choice both May, 1967. Shame no one knows and goodness knows I and others have tried. I think it's a long gone ask, but here's hoping.

But Mike was pretty prolific around Detroit at the time.  You cannot assume one person is another just by the credits.

Just like you can't assume there is a connection between artists that recorded for the same production team, there has to be some/more evidence to say one singer is also another singer.

[Wheelsville1]

33 minutes ago, Chalky said:

But Mike was pretty prolific around Detroit at the time.  You cannot assume one person is another just by the credits.

Just like you can't assume there is a connection between artists that recorded for the same production team, there has to be some/more evidence to say one singer is also another singer.

Totaly agree Chalky,i also don't think they are both the same person.

[Blackpoolsoul]

1 hour ago, Chalky said:

But Mike was pretty prolific around Detroit at the time.  You cannot assume one person is another just by the credits.

Just like you can't assume there is a connection between artists that recorded for the same production team, there has to be some/more evidence to say one singer is also another singer.

When I asked Curtis Rogers (People's Choice) I was hoping, but of course he had no idea, why would he. 

[Robbk]

On 02/12/2024 at 05:16, Northernjordan12 said:

Hmmmm! 

Why doesn't someone ask Richard why he thinks they are the same person.  Who told him that, or where did he read it.  I remember several rumours that got around to so many people that many people believed that they must have been true.  But they could have ALL originated with a couple collectors surmising (guessing) that from a falsely-interpreted clue, or a coincidence that made it seem unlikely to not be true - such as 4 or 5 clues lining up almost perfectly.  Think of the case of the 2 Frank Wilsons both working for Motown at the same time with both having been working in L.A. and starting their songwriting and producing careers there.  I can't count how many times we've asked Detroiters who were active participants in the music industry during the '60s about obscure artists, and they even remember working on the recording session in question, and still didn't remember, or ever even know the artist's real name or the names of individual group members, etc.  It's always great when many, many years after the first time searching for the answers to similar questions, one of us actually finds irrefutable documentation of the true answer.  Of course, the further in years that we move away from those times, the fewer of these late true answers will be coming forth.  Many of these questions will never be answered.   I've forgotten a LOT myself, that I've never written down.  

[Northernjordan12]

Following up on this, Marlin McNicohols managed to get in touch with Cholly Bassoline last night for Me.

He said the same thing: he doesn’t remember who “Jimmy Mack” was. He only shared what we already know, explaining that the name "Jimmy Mack" was an alias stage name. The name was took from the popularity of the Martha Reeves track at the time and was chosen for marketing purposes in hope to help sales. It’s likely that the recording artist’s real name has no connection to a “Jimmy” or “James” to make things even more difficult. 

What did catch my interest, though, is that The Debonaires provided the backing vocals on "My World Is On Fire", which was recorded at United Sound Studio during the summer of 1967, when the Detroit riots were also happening. I followed up with Elsie Gray to see if she remembered anything about the session. She confirmed that she remembers the recording well, but unfortunately, she doesn’t know the real identity of “Jimmy Mack” either.

Cholly worked with a man named James Cheers around that time - who also recorded with Bobby Franklin at Pioneer Recording Studio (Late 60s) - but Elsie confirmed it wasn’t him—James was somebody who she knew well. She also added that the other backing singers on that session were Joyce Vincent and Dorothy Garland, and she’s now planning to ask them if they can provide any additional information.

Sadly, so much time has passed and the key people involved - Mike Valvano and Marty Coleman - are no longer with us. I did manage to locate Marty Coleman’s sister to ask her about it on the off chance she might remember, though I doubt she knows anything specific about the song. Marty had some personal struggles later in life.

I also reached out to Ian Levine, thinking he might know something since he worked with Mike Valvano on the Motorcity Project. However, he said the topic never came up when he met and worked with Mike.

Like September Jones, it's another mystery.

[Blackpoolsoul]

6 hours ago, Northernjordan12 said:

Following up on this, Marlin McNicohols managed to get in touch with Cholly Bassoline last night for Me.

He said the same thing: he doesn’t remember who “Jimmy Mack” was. He only shared what we already know, explaining that the name "Jimmy Mack" was an alias stage name. The name was took from the popularity of the Martha Reeves track at the time and was chosen for marketing purposes in hope to help sales. It’s likely that the recording artist’s real name has no connection to a “Jimmy” or “James” to make things even more difficult. 

What did catch my interest, though, is that The Debonaires provided the backing vocals on "My World Is On Fire", which was recorded at United Sound Studio during the summer of 1967, when the Detroit riots were also happening. I followed up with Elsie Gray to see if she remembered anything about the session. She confirmed that she remembers the recording well, but unfortunately, she doesn’t know the real identity of “Jimmy Mack” either.

Cholly worked with a man named James Cheers around that time - who also recorded with Bobby Franklin at Pioneer Recording Studio (Late 60s) - but Elsie confirmed it wasn’t him—James was somebody who she knew well. She also added that the other backing singers on that session were Joyce Vincent and Dorothy Garland, and she’s now planning to ask them if they can provide any additional information.

Sadly, so much time has passed and the key people involved - Mike Valvano and Marty Coleman - are no longer with us. I did manage to locate Marty Coleman’s sister to ask her about it on the off chance she might remember, though I doubt she knows anything specific about the song. Marty had some personal struggles later in life.

I also reached out to Ian Levine, thinking he might know something since he worked with Mike Valvano on the Motorcity Project. However, he said the topic never came up when he met and worked with Mike.

Like September Jones, it's another mystery.

As you hopefully know, as with so many backing recordings that Elsie and the girls (and boys) did, they often did not come in contact with the main vocalists as recordings were done separately. I asked Elsie ages ago the exact same question about Jimmy Mack and glad you have confirmed what she told me (I had forgotten with all the stuff she filled me in on). My "Baby Doll" could write a book about the 100's if not 1000's of backings they did.

[Dobber]

Speaking of the 45 itself,I always thought it was reasonably rare item,but the last couple of years it’s seams there is one around every corner! At least 6 on Discogs alone! Compared to the people’s choice and the  couple of other bits on this palmer variation jimmy mack is in abundance,and to be a bore on values,why is jimmy Mack usually 1500 upwards, and people’s choice half that? Isn’t people’s choice much rarer and dare I say it a better quality tune?

[Robbk]

1 hour ago, Dobber said:

Speaking of the 45 itself,I always thought it was reasonably rare item,but the last couple of years it’s seams there is one around every corner! At least 6 on Discogs alone! Compared to the people’s choice and the  couple of other bits on this palmer variation jimmy mack is in abundance, and to be a bore on values, why is jimmy Mack usually 1500 upwards, and people’s choice half that? Isn’t people’s choice much rarer and dare I say it a better quality tune?

Quality is in the ear of the listener.  Although I like both songs and recordings, I like the Jimmy Mack song much more, and would pay more than double for it, were rarity not a factor, and fate would determine that I could only ever possess one of the two.  Of course, given that I am a general Soul music fan, as opposed to an NS fan, and don't just limit its value to that on the NS scene, and melody and singing skill, and natural gift of voice count more for me than the song's beat and the resultant abilities to dance to it, my preference probably doesn't count much in terms of your quality criteria.

And maybe the original "perception" among collectors, that the Jimmy Mack was the rarer issue, and a large find of several boxes of it many years later, with them not disseminated all at once, caused the information that there are now more of it known to not have been absorbed (realised) by most collectors.  I, myself, had seen People's Choice a few times back in the late 60s, years before I knew Jimmy Mack even existed, and at first it was thought to be super rare.  And that difference (impression) had been in my mind until your comment in this thread, which triggered in my mind, the more recent memory, that, "yes, come to think of it, I have seen more of The Macks around lately."

 

[Tlscapital]

1 hour ago, Dobber said:

Speaking of the 45 itself,I always thought it was reasonably rare item,but the last couple of years it’s seams there is one around every corner! At least 6 on Discogs alone! Compared to the people’s choice and the  couple of other bits on this palmer variation jimmy mack is in abundance,and to be a bore on values,why is jimmy Mack usually 1500 upwards, and people’s choice half that? Isn’t people’s choice much rarer and dare I say it a better quality tune?

Likely the prices it commands finally allowed some stateside collectors to finally part with their old filler copies. Most in VG downward condition. All at once. But for how long ?

Guessing that they pressed up as many promotional copies as the People's Choice for the very few stockers of the Jimmy Mack to be found it should be rarer on that account alone...

But I agree with you that the People's Choice is a hell of a tune. And in comparison much better. Something's off for me with 'My World Is On Fire'. While Jimmy's flip 'Go On' is my play side....

[Dylan]

Easy to be true is also fantastic.

[Tlscapital]

2 minutes ago, Dylan said:

Easy to be true is also fantastic.

When I first got me my copy of the People's Choice (that was THE humming tune in my head back then) and played it home I instinctively played Al Green's 'Don't Leave Me' after not knowing then the interconnections. And while playing 'Easy To Be True' I then played 'Back Up Train' and realized that these sessions really had something in common....

[Dobber]

20 minutes ago, Tlscapital said:

When I first got me my copy of the People's Choice (that was THE humming tune in my head back then) and played it home I instinctively played Al Green's 'Don't Leave Me' after not knowing then the interconnections. And while playing 'Easy To Be True' I then played 'Back Up Train' and realized that these sessions really had something in common....

Just played them on YouTube,very similar indeed

[The Yank]

9 hours ago, Northernjordan12 said:

 

What did catch my interest, though, is that The Debonaires provided the backing vocals on "My World Is On Fire", which was recorded at United Sound Studio during the summer of 1967, when the Detroit riots were also happening. I followed up with Elsie Gray to see if she remembered anything about the session. She confirmed that she remembers the recording well, but unfortunately, she doesn’t know the real identity of “Jimmy Mack” either.

"My World..." was actually released in May of 1967. The Detroit riots happened  at least a month later so there really is no correlation between the song and the riots. See #25 on the survey-