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Playing Funk Records At Soul Venues


Headsy

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.....whilst a young pup coming back from one of my first allnighters I remember overhearing a conversation between a couple of guys that went something like:

'What is Soul'

'It's what you feel mate, it's what you feel'

that was it short and sweet and it has always stuck with me.

I was going to write that I like lot's of different styles of soul but then I would have to classify style and I can't be arsed.

Back in the 70,s there were records that I liked and have fond memories of because of the 'Northern Soul' scene. You could argue that they weren't soulful at all but when I hear them even today I certainly feel it!

'Soul Is What You Feel'

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I'm not too keen on too much funk on a night out to be honest.

I do like it in small doses, used to go to a lot of funk venues years ago but I've kind of gone off it over the years.

I know there some funk tracks that have more of a soulful side to them but some of the stuff I hear on the rare occasions I leave the house is out and out funk no doubt about it..however you dress it up and say how it makes you feel inside. I get a lot of pleasure listening to David Bowie but he definitely isn't soul.

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There have been so many different sounds to my ears in a Northern Soul room since i started going in 1981.. Who is say whats soul and what aint.. That debate will go on long after we have gone to that great dancefloor in the sky or surfing on the lakes of fire downstairs with columbian marching powder on tap :thumbsup:

As with so many other topics/ threads we go all round the houses and still come back to the same point... We all have our own take on the music..

The scene is healthy with many many nights to give all the flavours, you know your flavour, just find the place that taste best or at least eat in a place thats got a good menue with choices you like..

You are talking about the Northern Soul scene, not soul music. Northern Soul embraces many genres of music not just soul.

We coined it Northern Soul which we all know isn't necessarily Soulful, some of it simply Pop (doesn't make it Soul), and then to complicate it further we made up a load of other genres, crossover, modern blah blah. I'm not saying Funk isn't soulful, some Pop music is soulful but at the end of the day Soul and Funk are different. Both genres might have the same musicians etc, both genres are played on the NS scene but you can clearly hear the difference

IMO the music we love is simply Rhythm and Blues, this encompasses all the sub genres that come from it, Soul, Funk, Disco etc IMO. Today we have Urban, House, Hip Hop etc under the Contemporary Rhythm & Blues umbrella and Mobo's (Music of black origin).

pretty good description at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rhythm_and_blues

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I've read several comments where they say it's all Soul Music, it isn't, Funk isn't Soul and Soul isn't Funk. They might be part of a more all encompassing genre but they are not the same, there is musical differences. Might be same musicians, technicians, engineers etc but they are different.

One " funkier " record that was at the forefront for paving the way for others on the NS scene , was Fred Hughes'

" Baby Boy " .

At the time of its' first spins , " BB " was radically different to what had been played / was being played , but as far as I can recall , no one batted an eyelid .

Malc

Edited by Malc Burton
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Guest Matt Male

knew you would get it Chalky :thumbsup::lol::lol:

He said it wasn't soul, he didn't say it isn't northern soul.

If were talking pure soul venues then fair enough, if were talking northern soul venues then funky edged northern dancers is fine in my opinion (as long as they are quality). To be honest i'm not sure i've ever been to a 'soul night' or 'soul venue'. Is there anywhere in the country that only plays soul music, apart from modern soul venues?

Edited by Matt Male
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nothing wrong with a bit of funky northern imo, there 's so many different genres of soul that now come under the" Northern soul" umbrella and always have been, there's only so much 4/4 beat that i can take in a night, sometimes ya just gotta shake it down and get loose, know what i mean :thumbsup:

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''here is one to stir things up a bit,

who else thinks that all this interest in funk/northern is gonna be a problem for the ''soul scene'' in 5 years time ?

I mean,are we not just recycling another scenes music and trying to make it our own ?

if I want to hear funk records I would go to a funk night...........I go to soul venues to hear soul records,

not saying its all bad,just that I see we are starting to lose the plot a bit in order to try and play something different when we have not exhausted all the play time of soul records yet,and it can only get worse.

just my opinion of course..........but my mates agreed with me on saturday ''

''not saying its never been part of the scene and not saying its bad,

I am saying that more and more emphasis at the moment ( IMO ) is in playing more and more funky sounding records in order to play something new,not like in the past when these records were in the minority.

and surely all these tunes are not new,especially if you have been around the funk scene.( which I was not )

we appear to be searching with a renewed vigour across an old genre to bring something new to the rare/soul/northern scene,or however you want to name it''

the basic point I was trying to make has either been lost or diluted over the thread,

if we keep on pushing these type of sounds ( good or bad,does'nt matter,the people will decide) then the majority of sounds,not the minority will be based around this style in 5 years time as more and more DJs follow the style.........not like it is now and has been in the past.

maybe time to close the thread as everybody has had their bit to say ( which is what it is all about of course )

although it does make you wonder why bother to post anything ( these days ) :thumbsup:

I will let Mace start a Latin thread.................. :lol:

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the basic point I was trying to make has either been lost or diluted over the thread,

if we keep on pushing these type of sounds ( good or bad,does'nt matter,the people will decide) then the majority of sounds,not the minority will be based around this style in 5 years time as more and more DJs follow the style.........not like it is now and has been in the past.

I think this is an important point. I really don't think these sounds will take over from what we all know and love. People don't mind the odd tune but a whole night of it? Like you say there is a scene for that already.

Like I said on a recent thread - if these tunes are going to be the scene of the future then I for one won't be on it. Hopefully there will always be a venue for the likes of me and you :thumbsup:

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Guest in town Mikey

A popular sound at Yate was a girl group thing - Do It To It.

I cant remember the artists. I did buy a boot I think. No idea where it went tho.

But at that time I tended to buy things that I liked, but was probably influenced by the dancefloor reaction. Had it bombed, i doubt it would have tempted me to go and buy a copy.

Edited by in town Mikey
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A popular sound at Yate was a girl group thing - Do It To It.

I cant remember the artists. I did buy a boot I think. No idea where it went tho.

But at that time I tended to buy things that I liked, but was probably influenced by the dancefloor reaction. Had it bombed, i doubt it would have tempted me to go and buy a copy.

Funky Sisters?

funky sisters - do it to it - soul-tbc

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''here is one to stir things up a bit,

who else thinks that all this interest in funk/northern is gonna be a problem for the ''soul scene'' in 5 years time ?

I mean,are we not just recycling another scenes music and trying to make it our own ?

if I want to hear funk records I would go to a funk night...........I go to soul venues to hear soul records,

not saying its all bad,just that I see we are starting to lose the plot a bit in order to try and play something different when we have not exhausted all the play time of soul records yet,and it can only get worse.

just my opinion of course..........but my mates agreed with me on saturday ''

''not saying its never been part of the scene and not saying its bad,

I am saying that more and more emphasis at the moment ( IMO ) is in playing more and more funky sounding records in order to play something new,not like in the past when these records were in the minority.

and surely all these tunes are not new,especially if you have been around the funk scene.( which I was not )

we appear to be searching with a renewed vigour across an old genre to bring something new to the rare/soul/northern scene,or however you want to name it''

the basic point I was trying to make has either been lost or diluted over the thread,

if we keep on pushing these type of sounds ( good or bad,does'nt matter,the people will decide) then the majority of sounds,not the minority will be based around this style in 5 years time as more and more DJs follow the style.........not like it is now and has been in the past.

maybe time to close the thread as everybody has had their bit to say ( which is what it is all about of course )

although it does make you wonder why bother to post anything ( these days ) :lol:

I will let Mace start a Latin thread.................. :lol:

I reckon in 5 years time, the people who are getting down, will strugle to get up :thumbsup:

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Guest Brett F

He said it wasn't soul, he didn't say it isn't northern soul.

If were talking pure soul venues then fair enough, if were talking northern soul venues then funky edged northern dancers is fine in my opinion (as long as they are quality). To be honest i'm not sure i've ever been to a 'soul night' or 'soul venue'. Is there anywhere in the country that only plays soul music, apart from modern soul venues?

Hi Matt, i think Sean Hampsey's JUST SOUL, plays.err....just soul....think its fair to say it leans toward modern (70's), but they do cover the 60's too.

Brett

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Which of course is notorious for been banned from Wigan for being 'Too Funky' together with 'Ladies Choice' by Bobby Franklin.....which sounds just like Curtis Mayfield :thumbsup:

Bobby Franklin sounds like Curtis Mayfield??????..now i know its time to pack up....:lol:

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Guest Matt Male

the basic point I was trying to make has either been lost or diluted over the thread,

if we keep on pushing these type of sounds ( good or bad,does'nt matter,the people will decide) then the majority of sounds,not the minority will be based around this style in 5 years time as more and more DJs follow the style.........not like it is now and has been in the past.

maybe time to close the thread as everybody has had their bit to say ( which is what it is all about of course )

although it does make you wonder why bother to post anything ( these days ) :D

Like Joan I don't worry that these kind of sounds will take over and I don't think they will. In a couple of years time we'll probably have moved onto something else and everyone will be saying play some funky northern oldies you just don't hear them anymore. :(

I'm not sure why you think you shouldn't have bothered posting. I thought it was a good thread and I reckon it's nailed the funk issue. :thumbsup:

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Just trying to picture the scenario getting reversed & Northern getting spun at a Funk night - '& next up is Paul Anka - When We Get There. Ger on't good foot folks.'

Most of my gigs these days are local festivals and I often play some Northern mixed in with the funk tunes. Don't see any problem with that and neither do the people dancing usually :thumbsup:

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Guest in town Mikey

Funky Sisters?

funky sisters - do it to it - soul-tbc

Thats it. And about as funky as I get I'm afraid. This and World's Funkiest Band are in my collection. Apart from that I once didnt turn over when James Brown came on the wireless.

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Just trying to picture the scenario getting reversed & Northern getting spun at a Funk night - '& next up is Paul Anka - When We Get There. Ger on't good foot folks.'

Martin, "When We Get There" should have not been played anywhere, and it is still being played is just f**kin madness.

What's worst people still dance to it!

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Bought the Mystics recently..................the northern style funk I'm into are Seventh Wonder,Baby Boy,June Taylor-Jealous Heart,Ron Kenoly-Movin On,World Column,Artistics-Chase Is On,There Was A time and loads of others.........the deep funk getting plays now are more the uuuuugh ohhhh good god yawl jerky gritty funk.That witch record posted earlier is good.

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While most of the time as an American I'm indescribably jealous of all of you for being a part of this amazing scene, when it comes to matters like this, I don't envy you at all! Since I started collecting and DJ'ing in the States I have never felt constrained to limit myself to a certain kind of black sound; I have always mixed up more R&Bish and funkier records with the straight sixties soul....It's only at the real Anglophile nights around these parts that there's a bias toward strict northern, as you might imagine, though that's been changing the past few years....

On a related note, it may interest you to know that the formerly strictly funk folks I know around here who came to the music through hip-hop are now swooning over northern records!

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I've read several comments where they say it's all Soul Music, it isn't, Funk isn't Soul and Soul isn't Funk. They might be part of a more all encompassing genre but they are not the same, there is musical differences. Might be same musicians, technicians, engineers etc but they are different.

I agree with you that Funk is a sub genre, but If musical difference is the varying element in the equation, then someone better invent a whole load more sub genres.

eg :- Pyramid - Soul Bros Inc...... Breakaway - Steve Karmen.... Charles Mintz - Running Back ......The Invitataions - Skiing in the snow............ are all described in Manships as Northern Soul, how does that one work ???

To say that Funk isn't Soul is a bit like saying that Brie isn't cheese because it looks and tastes different to chedder.

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This post is very pleasing to read . CAn i be in your Garden with all of it's different shades and perfumes please ...this is how it should be . Unfortunately some people have to put things in boxes and label them and colour code them so that they are all played in the same tempo and style and then they have to disect everything how many beats a minute and then have to have rules ....do I wear my yellow under pants when I play the charades or do I wear my pink ones .... paaaaaaah !

I say just play what moves you and hope that it moves others . I am sure in early days gone by these rules didn't exist and I am also sure they were made up to make some feel more knowledgable than others when it comes to hours of debating Well in my view it makes them look like a bunch of sad old grumpy frayed anoraks.. that have nothing better to do ! :hatsoff2:

I will mention how refreshing it was to go to a young club in Manchester on a friday night ( Beat Boutique) where most wern't "soulies" and what was played was in all sorts of styles that sounded brilliant ..... stick Sam & Dave on or Aretha in the mix they soon started to wiggle .... then a bit of what we call northern.... then a bit of funk.....oh lets have some Spanky Wilson or Deloras Ealey there you go !

Do they put the white coat and get the scalpel out in the morning and disect the frog.....not really it is about having a good time in their culture.... and there is always tomorrow ( Diplomatic eh ?) if you want more.

Plus to get things into proportion you are reading the views of the minority here maybe 25 people max so don't take it as gospel..OMG did I mention gospel ! ... 25 contributers to a post hardly makes a dancefloor ... keep on playing without a rule book and you will amaze and entice .Did anyone mention also the latin influences as of late ...or was that a virus ?

At this point I would love to attach a reward .. A bit of Marva Whitney .......... Unwind yourselves lol Turn your soul sooooooo looose ! Turn your soul so looose , don't be scared it wont break turn it looose and let it shake Babaloooooooooooo do anything you wanna do .... great lyrics that say it all

John ...you are a foodie arn't you ... I can tell laugh.gif I do like brie .... not a blue cheese person though

I am just recalling a moment walking through Camden market passing a record vendor and catching Kissin my love on the air by Spanky Wilson ..... well that enticed me to source some more funk tunes becuase that beat did move me . Watching the other shoppers ... they were all moving :lol: too ! What I will say is there are different variations within funk , some not for me just as it is in soul or any other genre

Carms

While most of the time as an American I'm indescribably jealous of all of you for being a part of this amazing scene, when it comes to matters like this, I don't envy you at all! Since I started collecting and DJ'ing in the States I have never felt constrained to limit myself to a certain kind of black sound; I have always mixed up more R&Bish and funkier records with the straight sixties soul....It's only at the real Anglophile nights around these parts that there's a bias toward strict northern, as you might imagine, though that's been changing the past few years....

On a related note, it may interest you to know that the formerly strictly funk folks I know around here who came to the music through hip-hop are now swooning over northern records!

Edited by Carms
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Just trying to picture the scenario getting reversed & Northern getting spun at a Funk night - '& next up is Paul Anka - When We Get There. Ger on't good foot folks.'

................. and tek it t'bridge , owd lad " :hatsoff2:

Malc

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Just thought of two other " Funk " tunes that when first played , no one batted an eyelid or GAF .......

" Let's Clean Up The Ghetto " and " I Got It " .

Malc

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Well said .... there's been plenty of tunes with sod all soul content played over the years, some of the funky edged stuff is better than pop fodder that has no soul at all, so I hope people keep playing it....AS LONG AS IT IS SELECTIVE!! Having said that, there plenty of soul tunes to fill a dancefloor that never get played and i don't mean expensive ones!!

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This post is very pleasing to read . CAn i be in your Garden with all of it's different shades and perfumes please ...this is how it should be . Unfortunately some people have to put things in boxes and label them and colour code them so that they are all played in the same tempo and style and then they have to disect everything how many beats a minute and then have to have rules ....do I wear my yellow under pants when I play the charades or do I wear my pink ones .... paaaaaaah !

I say just play what moves you and hope that it moves others . I am sure in early days gone by these rules didn't exist and I am also sure they were made up to make some feel more knowledgable than others when it comes to hours of debating Well in my view it makes them look like a bunch of sad old grumpy frayed anoraks.. that have nothing better to do ! :hatsoff2:

I will mention how refreshing it was to go to a young club in Manchester on a friday night ( Beat Boutique) where most wern't "soulies" and what was played was in all sorts of styles that sounded brilliant ..... stick Sam & Dave on or Aretha in the mix they soon started to wiggle .... then a bit of what we call northern.... then a bit of funk.....oh lets have some Spanky Wilson or Deloras Ealey there you go !

Do they put the white coat and get the scalpel out in the morning and disect the frog.....not really it is about having a good time in their culture.... and there is always tomorrow ( Diplomatic eh ?) if you want more.

Plus to get things into proportion you are reading the views of the minority here maybe 25 people max so don't take it as gospel..OMG did I mention gospel ! ... 25 contributers to a post hardly makes a dancefloor ... keep on playing without a rule book and you will amaze and entice .Did anyone mention also the latin influences as of late ...or was that a virus ?

At this point I would love to attach a reward .. A bit of Marva Whitney .......... Unwind yourselves lol Turn your soul sooooooo looose ! Turn your soul so looose , don't be scared it wont break turn it looose and let it shake Babaloooooooooooo do anything you wanna do .... great lyrics that say it all

John ...you are a foodie arn't you ... I can tell laugh.gif I do like brie .... not a blue cheese person though

I am just recalling a moment walking through Camden market passing a record vendor and catching Kissin my love on the air by Spanky Wilson ..... well that enticed me to source some more funk tunes becuase that beat did move me . Watching the other shoppers ... they were all moving :lol: too ! What I will say is there are different variations within funk , some not for me just as it is in soul or any other genre

Carms

This made me think of Matt Jahans, didn't he colour code his records............ :lol:

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Funky Sisters?

funky sisters - do it to it - soul-tbc

Jesus thats just bad bad bad to my ears... It really don't get worse than that to my ears..

To me its just that bad...

Can't listen to it, no way could i dance to it..

This kind of thing would have me doing harm to myself or others....

Do it do it... I say do one do one...

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This post is very pleasing to read . CAn i be in your Garden with all of it's different shades and perfumes please ...this is how it should be . Unfortunately some people have to put things in boxes and label them and colour code them so that they are all played in the same tempo and style and then they have to disect everything how many beats a minute and then have to have rules ....do I wear my yellow under pants when I play the charades or do I wear my pink ones .... paaaaaaah !

I say just play what moves you and hope that it moves others . I am sure in early days gone by these rules didn't exist and I am also sure they were made up to make some feel more knowledgable than others when it comes to hours of debating Well in my view it makes them look like a bunch of sad old grumpy frayed anoraks.. that have nothing better to do ! :hatsoff2:

I will mention how refreshing it was to go to a young club in Manchester on a friday night ( Beat Boutique) where most wern't "soulies" and what was played was in all sorts of styles that sounded brilliant ..... stick Sam & Dave on or Aretha in the mix they soon started to wiggle .... then a bit of what we call northern.... then a bit of funk.....oh lets have some Spanky Wilson or Deloras Ealey there you go !

Do they put the white coat and get the scalpel out in the morning and disect the frog.....not really it is about having a good time in their culture.... and there is always tomorrow ( Diplomatic eh ?) if you want more.

Plus to get things into proportion you are reading the views of the minority here maybe 25 people max so don't take it as gospel..OMG did I mention gospel ! ... 25 contributers to a post hardly makes a dancefloor ... keep on playing without a rule book and you will amaze and entice .Did anyone mention also the latin influences as of late ...or was that a virus ?

At this point I would love to attach a reward .. A bit of Marva Whitney .......... Unwind yourselves lol Turn your soul sooooooo looose ! Turn your soul so looose , don't be scared it wont break turn it looose and let it shake Babaloooooooooooo do anything you wanna do .... great lyrics that say it all

John ...you are a foodie arn't you ... I can tell :lol: I do like brie .... not a blue cheese person though

I am just recalling a moment walking through Camden market passing a record vendor and catching Kissin my love on the air by Spanky Wilson ..... well that enticed me to source some more funk tunes becuase that beat did move me . Watching the other shoppers ... they were all moving :lol: too ! What I will say is there are different variations within funk , some not for me just as it is in soul or any other genre

Carms

Carms..

The voice of reason indeed.... hatsoff2.gif

Thats the problem at times, we get a bunch of posts saying do it this way and do it that way, a bunch of folk out of the thousands on this forum means nothing at all, nothing..

More input from a wider membership could lead to a more rounded view of whats hot and whats not..

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Jesus thats just bad bad bad to my ears... It really don't get worse than that to my ears..

To me its just that bad...

Can't listen to it, no way could i dance to it..

This kind of thing would have me doing harm to myself or others....

Do it do it... I say do one do one...

I think it's a classic case of "You had to be there" matey, believe me, I've heard far, far worse!:hatsoff2:

Edited by Jerry Hipkiss
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''here is one to stir things up a bit,

who else thinks that all this interest in funk/northern is gonna be a problem for the ''soul scene'' in 5 years time ?

I mean,are we not just recycling another scenes music and trying to make it our own ?

if I want to hear funk records I would go to a funk night...........I go to soul venues to hear soul records,

not saying its all bad,just that I see we are starting to lose the plot a bit in order to try and play something different when we have not exhausted all the play time of soul records yet,and it can only get worse.

just my opinion of course..........but my mates agreed with me on saturday ''

''not saying its never been part of the scene and not saying its bad,

I am saying that more and more emphasis at the moment ( IMO ) is in playing more and more funky sounding records in order to play something new,not like in the past when these records were in the minority.

and surely all these tunes are not new,especially if you have been around the funk scene.( which I was not )

we appear to be searching with a renewed vigour across an old genre to bring something new to the rare/soul/northern scene,or however you want to name it''

the basic point I was trying to make has either been lost or diluted over the thread,

if we keep on pushing these type of sounds ( good or bad,does'nt matter,the people will decide) then the majority of sounds,not the minority will be based around this style in 5 years time as more and more DJs follow the style.........not like it is now and has been in the past.

maybe time to close the thread as everybody has had their bit to say ( which is what it is all about of course )

although it does make you wonder why bother to post anything ( these days ) :hatsoff2:

I will let Mace start a Latin thread.................. biggrin.gif

Headsy your revolting.lol

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Carms..

The voice of reason indeed.... :hatsoff2:

Thats the problem at times, we get a bunch of posts saying do it this way and do it that way, a bunch of folk out of the thousands on this forum means nothing at all, nothing..

More input from a wider membership could lead to a more rounded view of whats hot and whats not..

There might only be 25/30/40 people contributing but you can bet that many more share the same views, from both sides. I know of many who share the same view as Joan, Headsy etc.

I can remember not too long ago St Ives lookback there was uproar from the punters for the funk set played by two well know DJ's, I've seen the more funky stuff clear the floor at many nighters including Lifeline. By same token I've seen full dance floors.

I personally think you get a good representation of what goes on out there from people on here, especially if the topic is conducted in a civil way. I find the only time you get a view that isn't fully represented is in lookbacks, tho whose didn't find everything tickity boo often keep quiet.

This topic IMO has had good input from all sides of the argument yes.gif how many views do you want for it to carry any weight? 65% of the membership of Soul Source rolleyes.gif Whats wrong with having an opinion on a topic, especially if the topic is conducted in a civil manner like this one? If you want peace love and harmony become a hippie laugh.gif

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there is good and bad in all genres and as long as its got the vibe that suits the venue then go for it cos it takes all sorts of tunes to keep a crowd happy and we dont all like everything thats been playied on the scene over the decades so take a seat or have a fag or go digging in the sales boxes until the tunes that do it for you get played, if it gets you dancing then its good enough for me biggrin.gif but please no out and out funk there is a place for that :hatsoff2:

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I've got to say i've yet to hear any actual deep funk at a soul night?

Unless we are counting stuff like Earl English or Dynamic Corvettes as deep funk??

God forbid, I hope not. Classic examples of now well-established and sucessfully crossed over funky Soul tunes. At least on the continent incl. Germany. IMO.

Theres loads of other tunes though I for example love but that I would never dare to think of playing out at a Rare Soul event as indeed they are too "hard" classic deep funk sides. Think King Roosevelt, Larry Ellis and such..

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Don't know if anyone else is up for it but I was thinking about this the other day , do you remember a prog called Juke box jury ? doubt it , you are all far too young. Anyway it went like this a tune is played and a panel of judges gave it marks out of five ... is it a hit or a miss?

Now here is the idea why dont we use renfosoul in just that way ...put up some funk tracks and have some member participation as to how the sound moves them...a voting system

I am up for devoting some time in being a panel member if someone would like to play and educate me.

As a foot note the funky sisters track would be a miss for me , that doesn't push my buttons at all....sorry

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