Northern Soul Deejay's Of The Future ?

[Ian Dewhirst]

I think that's the difference, you're talking about using CDs as a format recorded from your own collection whereas Mark was talking about using shop bought CDs to DJ with because original vinyl is too expensive. That's the way I understood it. My point was if you buy CDs to DJ with, then putting together a personal set that doesn't sound like everyone else is impossible, so there's no point doing it if you want to make a name as a new upcoming DJ.

OK, that makes sense. Point taken. Mind you, I reckon I could still play a blinding set with my Northern CD collection 'cos I've got hundreds of 'em from the last 20 odd years, most of which are long deleted now........

Ian D

[NEV]

This is a topic that is discussed at length on many occasions over here in Australia and I'm sure it crops up many, many times in conversations in the U.K. as well. While we collectors who also deejay at many events are fortunate to have the collections of vinyl that continue to fill dancefloors every weekend, year in, year out, just who are going to be the deejay's of the future ? Is it going to be the odd Son or Daughter for that matter who will be allowed to get their hands on the ole' mans prized collection as surely, with the spiralling prices of the big ticket items the up and coming younger folk will hardly be in a position to buy them. I was discussing this with someone on the local radio station ( soul purpose ) the other week and, while he has a certain liking for some of the Northern sounds he admitted to never ever likely being in a position to buy enough to make the move behind the decks. I for one fully expect to continue running and attending soul nights with a passion as long as I have breath in my body, as do many thousands of other devotees out there, but it begs the question as to where we are going to attract enough younger folk to venture into the deejaying field. Yes there are a few more ' younger ' people attending soul nights as I have seen on my many trips back to old blighty, and we are now getting a few more here too, but.... they seem to have no interest besides having a good time on the dancefloor, and no, there is nothing wrong with that. The only younger deejay's, and I compare them to us 50 plus year olds, i have seen behind the decks are playing in the modern rooms, ( Prestatyn for example ). So as not to harp on, If you have the time I would appreciate any positive comments on the subject. Thanks and stay soulful. Tony, South West Soul, Fremantle, Western Australia.

Biggest problem hurdle imho is "older " people's attitude's toward the "younger "generation.

I know Liam /Callum and Azza personally ,and have to say they are a breath of fresh air to talk to and in all honesty put more time and effort into the scene than most people.

Its also the attitude of the older people that ironically prevents the young from getting more involved in the scene...i say ironically because it's almost become a cliche' to hear people moaning "there are no young'uns coming into the soul scene" then on the other hand when they do try to get involved its all " what do they know ,they havent been around long enough " or "you've gotta serve your time" bollox !

Personally age should'nt matter as much as a persons passion .

Lots of older people don't wanna be surrounded by young people and vice versa, so imho there will more than likely be a kind of parallel scene of younger generation venues running alongside the older ones .

Older venue with a few young uns in and a few oldies in the young venue....now what was the question???

Me being mid-40's like Stevie i can choose to look young in the oldies venue or more mature in the young'uns place

Its all about ATTITUDE .....embrace em or feel threatened by em

[Guest Matt Male]

I agree it doesn't matter how old someone is or how old they are, young or old. I also know Callum and he's a better DJ than plenty that have been around for the last forty years in my opinion. So time served means very little when it comes to taste and the skill to put a set together.

[Wiggyflat]

Youre young and not got the original vinyl...........sorry get junkshopping and finding sounds.A big part of the "northern soul" experience is the vinyl aspect...trading/buying/finding.Any monkey can buy a few hundred CDs and proclaim to be a deejay.If you want to be taken seriously then do the graft.If you don't want to be taken seriously then put on your northern soul CD night.I don't see how going to the HMV and playing a set from CD is "keeping the faith".There was a name for the mods who simply donned a parka and bought Carnaby Street patches and Jam shoes.....it was "plastic".These CD events are the equivalent.If you haven't got the original vinyl and have boots there's loads of dedicated deejays on here with a myriad of soul music on ovo (they are experts and should be used).Don't try fooling yourself with your Grapevine collection.The current mod scene is a mix of r&b,jazz,ska latin etc and isn't northern soul.They are two separate scenes as is "the soul scene".The northern soul scene was the mid seventies northern mod/scooter scene before the 79 revival and evolved from the late sixties twisted wheel scene. The hundred club originated I'm led to believe as a platform to play the early mod scene sounds and started playing out and out northern later on in the mixture.It then pulled in people from the eighties mod scene who got more into soul.

[Chalky]

YES and YES to both answers Chalky, and that's an honest opinion.

I think these guys do offer something different. You only have to step into Steve's room at Radcliff for example when he's had one of them on and they're likely playing something that's not tried and trusted. I'm not saying every tune in their box is different, or that they're absolutely cutting edge constantly, but then again who is? and for teh very few that are (probably counting them on two hands) there's not enough of em to go round. But the people i mentioned do offer something different, and they have the balls to showcase it. Whether its underplayed, rare or just down right different and never heard of before, they will play it. I'm not saying that an 'old DJ' can't do that either, just saying you don't see them doing it as often (in general). Obvious exceptions on both sides wouldnt you say mate?

P.S - leave the pension for now mate, still plenty of life in you yet

Not much in Steve Cato's room that is tried and tested and many if not the majority in there have Dj'ed on the NS scene for some time.

I'm not saying they don't have nothing to offer and not saying they aren't good, far from it, all are excellent (I've heard yourself and Callum) and do have plenty to offer, they and yourself and many others like you are not only the here and now but the future but to say they have more to offer than is already out there is a brave statement and far off the mark IMO. All-nighters like Lifeline, Bidds, Wilton, Rugby, Kings Hall, 100 Club to name a few, soul nights like Boomerang (best in country IMO for across the board soul music), Greatstone, Dab of Soul, Just Soul, Bidds, Bury, York, Move On, Bradford and many others again, all cover the bases and then some. I find it hard to believe musically anyone can offer something better and different to that little lot.

I agree the balance between the old uns as you call us and the young uns is not right and needs to be addressed, but like I said if it doesn't happen soon it will happen over time. Hopefully if any of you are at Lifeline come over and have a chat, I'll introduce them to Andy and Mick.

As said enjoy what we have now, there's something out there for everyone and like you said age is irrelevant just as long as you do the business. If not then move over!!

[Chalky]

I agree it doesn't matter how old someone is or how old they are, young or old. I also know Callum and he's a better DJ than plenty that have been around for the last forty years in my opinion. So time served means very little when it comes to taste and the skill to put a set together.

I agree 100% Matt, plenty out there that only DJ cause they have a large bank balance or a mate is doing them a favour and not cause they have the ability to DJ or put a set together.

[Liljimmycrank]

but to say they have more to offer than is already out there is a brave statement and far off the mark IMO. All-nighters like Lifeline, Bidds, Wilton, Rugby, Kings Hall, 100 Club to name a few, soul nights like Boomerang (best in country IMO for across the board soul music), Greatstone, Dab of Soul, Just Soul, Bidds, Bury, York, Move On, Bradford and many others again, all cover the bases and then some. I find it hard to believe musically anyone can offer something better and different to that little lot.

Apologies if I've missed your point chalky but I was referring to dj's not events. I'm just saying that they offer something different, just like the guests who play at the events you've listed offer something different. I'm not saying they're better or not than those guests but that they should be considered, otherwise how can people claim it nit to be a closed book? Anyway, it's the promoters choice at the end of the day so what we think doesn't matter :-)

[Chalky]

Apologies if I've missed your point chalky but I was referring to dj's not events. I'm just saying that they offer something different, just like the guests who play at the events you've listed offer something different. I'm not saying they're better or not than those guests but that they should be considered, otherwise how can people claim it nit to be a closed book? Anyway, it's the promoters choice at the end of the day so what we think doesn't matter :-)

I was referring to events and the dj's at them. All have a mixture of residents and guests who can and do cater for all tastes.

It has always been tough to get on the ladder, particularly all-nighters, I couldn't et to DJ at all-nighters in the 80's/90's but I was DJing at soul nights all over the place every weekend. Reckon you all just have to keep doing what you do, show you can do it, put yourselves about and your time will come. Promoters will take notice sooner or later.

[Paulb]

Chalky, to answer your question about music policy at Beat Boutique, we play 100% rare soul. We don't play mod classics or anything like that. In my opinion the quality of music is of a very high standard. When we started the club three years ago it maybe wasn't as good but over time the collections have got better and our tastes have matured somewhat.

It wouldn't be a lot of peoples cup of tea as its a city centre club with a young crowd but I think its a progressive music policy with some interesting playlists. To name a few I've been playing the past few months (just so you can get an idea)

Gospel Comforters - yes god is real

Elder William Smith - His voice

Eugene Gaspard - Holding on

Mckinley Mitchell - days got brighter

Nick Allen - hard way to go

Little Rene scott - I just can't foget that boy

Marvin simms - get off my back.

Yes, we are all on the nighter scene as punters but not every week. I tend to pick and choose my nights really.

Also, I don't think that any of us have the God given right to play at any nights just becasue we are young. Lots and lots of people out there with great records. All I'm saying is that most young people have gone their own way in order to get their records heard as there aren't many opportunities on the soul scene.

Edited February 18, 2011 by PaulB

[Chalky]

Chalky, to answer your question about music policy at Beat Boutique, we play 100% rare soul. We don't play mod classics or anything like that. In my opinion the quality of music is of a very high standard. When we started the club three years ago it maybe wasn't as good but over time the collections have got better and our tastes have matured somewhat.

It wouldn't be a lot of peoples cup of tea as its a city centre club with a young crowd but I think its a progressive music policy with some interesting playlists. To name a few I've been playing the past few months (just so you can get an idea)

Gospel Comforters - yes god is real

Elder William Smith - His voice

Eugene Gaspard - Holding on

Mckinley Mitchell - days got brighter

Nick Allen - hard way to go

Little Rene scott - I just can't foget that boy

Marvin simms - get off my back.

Yes, we are all on the nighter scene as punters but not every week. I tend to pick and choose my nights really.

Also, I don't think that any of us have the God given right to play at any nights just because we are young. Lots and lots of people out there with great records. All I'm saying is that most young people have gone their own way in order to get their records heard as there aren't many opportunities on the soul scene.

Hi Paul, thanks for the reply. Good to see and refreshing for a city centre venue. Many don't work for obvious reasons. And judging by the selection you mention some great music played. Like I said if you get down to Lifeline introduce yourself and have a chat.

Think Mark (Wignaer1) said it that there isn't the opportunities for a lot of older people too with great collections so it is not just you young uns suffering.

Like I said your time will come though.

[Wiganer1]

yes everydj wll have his day...patience and a bit of luck and u'll make it,,,first 30 years are the worst....lol

whatever age u are ,,,if u are,,u got the passoion and records u think people will dance to ,,,give it a go,,,but remember to enjoy it,,,

[Guest Wee Mark]

Hello again Guys

Sorry, but to be clear on the format issue, i really was,nt very clear on my 1st post

I am back now buying vinyl to build a collection that i can use to play a set at a DEDICATED Soul Do I have played the very enjoyable more relaxed Scooter/local scene(Ska.60,s Soul, Alt) for over 5 years on CD which has been great and people dance all night and i am asked back(fingers crossed)

......but....Please gentlemen I AGREE that music at Soul Do,s Should be if possible played in 45 record form if possible, my points is that i am unsure and others must be where the line on a SUITABLE 45 is drawn

...an example may illustrate my question...

Ok today in Brighton i bought RUN BABY RUN by the NewBeats in great condition on the London Hickory Label (UK Label)and i was very pleased BUT this record was released originally on HICKORY label in the states, is my record OK to play or is it a frowned upon reissue although it was UK first release.

It was,nt easy to get this record, i had to take the afternoon off drive 15 miles, try to park car(scoot broke)in Brighton(try it) and then look through a pile of Landfill fodder ammonst many(Ked DODD/CLIFF/ELGELRBERT) discs to find it ......I

Is it ok to play RUN BABY RUN OK on LONDON RECORDS???...its from 1971:)))) This was a UK hit and not rare...???

Edited February 18, 2011 by Wee Mark

[pikeys dog]

Ok today in Brighton i bought RUN BABY RUN by the NewBeats in great condition on the London Hickory Label (UK Label)and i was very pleased BUT this record was released originally on HICKORY label in the states, is my record OK to play or is it a frowned upon reissue although it was UK first release.

It was,nt easy to get this record, i had to take the afternoon off drive 15 miles, try to park car(scoot broke)in Brighton(try it) and then look through a pile of Landfill fodder ammonst many(Ked DODD/CLIFF/ELGELRBERT) discs to find it ......I

Is it ok to play RUN BABY RUN OK on LONDON RECORDS???...its from 1971:)))) This was a UK hit and not rare...???

Go on then, I'll bite.

I'd be embarrased to be seen playing Frisbee with the Newbeats, never mind inflicting it on anyone at a Soul do.

It's a bag of utter bollocks.

[Guest Wee Mark]

Thanks Captin Beer, but you miss the point......an example!!!......the UK/ US Label is what im, looking for defination on......

[Mark Bicknell]

Thanks Captin Beer, but you miss the point......an example!!!......the UK/ US Label is what im, looking for defination on......

I'm very much old school when it comes to records, from way back when I first got into DJ'ing it was an unwritten rule basically that if you wanted to take the rare soul DJ mantle then the tools of your trade should be first generation original records either first generation American originals or UK/British originals, so in simple terms to answer your question it would have to be USA Hickory not the UK reissue, there are hundreds of people who DJ on the soul scene some follow the original only route and would rather not own or play a bootleg/pressing/reissue if they do not hold the original and that's how it should be otherwise anyone can become a DJ and it kind of dilutes it being a rare soul scene don't you think? When I was top of my game with the DJ thing I would never take short cuts and buy anything other than originals and still don't in my own personal collecting, of course you pick up the odd boot when buying collections etc. but never would I play them at a gig.

I think most of us know who applies the original only ethic and it can take you along way up the ladder and far better to be one of the boy's than someone who wants the glory without putting the blood, sweat, tears and financial investment required. Mark you could go on Ebay right now if you had a couple of Grand handy and with a bit of digging put yourself a nice little box together of original records, you've just got to know your subject and do your best within your means but in all honesty The Newbeats and the like are simply not gonna cut the mustard anymore, not at any level anyway.

Regards - Mark Bicknell.

Edited February 19, 2011 by Mark Bicknell

[Guest Coley Soulie]

Some really interesting points on here and whilst some ventured off topic slightly I think they've all been relevant, which makes a change.

Steve, Paul and Chalky have all made great points which evaluate where we're at today and what might happen in the future, from a young ens and old ens perspective.

One thing that has annoyed me a tad in all this was that young people can't necessarily afford big ticket items or don't have mortgages??? What a load of old sh*t. If you've got the money and wanna spend it on vinyl being young doesn't make a difference.

Completely agree with Brett in terms of OVO and matt male also...........any DJ worth their salt should play from original vinyl, and I don't actually think that moving away from that script opens a door to more young dj's at all, if anything it stops it. Why? Well I for one (being a youngster who dj's and promotes) would be unlikely to support such events. It's a factor that forms the evolution of this scene and young people do like cults and movements with history, FACT. no need to change this in my opinion.

Mark - to answer your point, as a young en of course, it doesn't matter the age of the DJ and I don't think it puts people off attending prodomently 'young audience' dominated events of they turn up one time and a 50+yr old is behind the decks.

As long as the Dj can cut the mustard then the young audience will love it. That's no different to todays scene. As been mentioned guys like Karl etc feed of a crowd and deliver the goods.

I've put on plenty of the 'old guard' at Driving Beat and they've always gone down extremely well, mainly because i think they fit our music policy and also because we give them the freedom to play what they want within the bounds of the genres we promote. But that's the same fit the young guys too.

Our night, a bit like beat boutique in terms of attracting mixed crowds (although would say BB is more younger prodominantly), plays a mix of genres, and that includes the stuff classed as rare soul. That's because the guys who promote it and DJ at it 'get it'.

A key point which I think has been overlooked in all this in terms of young DJ's is that, whilst we're able to tap into a mass of knowledge built up over years, we also have no prejudice or bias of bygone eras that may have built up over said years. No particular phase of our lives music wise which may now form an influence on DJ styles and our collections, a blank canvas if you like.

I agree with Chalky in that the young DJ's shouldn't be going like for like with the older ones, but on the whole other than the odd 'gimic' ones, I don't think they do. Guys like Callum, Liam, Paul, Maxwell, Rich Evans etc. They have the passion, an ear for great tunes, good knowledge, fantastic varied collections and also, above all else, can knock fantastic spots together full of energy, flow and dancefloor driven tuneage.

These guys should be playing more now, never mind waiting for the future. That's up to the promoters though.

Will be interesting to see how the freestyle room at Rugby goes down in April.

In summary of my answer to the original post, the next generation of dj's are out there with open minds and ears, collections and play boxes bulging tunes across the board both price and genre. If people want to put them on at their events they will, if not then the clock of life is ticking on for everyone and it's only a matter of time :-)

Azza

Had a good old read of this forum, and to be quite honest i find that theres a whole confloct between rare soul and the original northern stuff, but to be really honest i was brought up on northern soul (brothers, jimmy conwell, little antony and the imperials, bobby hebb, pookie hudson, carstairs, checkerboard squres etc, could go on for months) but i really hope that once in a while oldies are played and embraced,because that was the foundations, the heart of northern soul and it needs to be brought to a new audeince with the integration between old,rare,and the possibility of a various genre spectrum to keep it going, i almost feel like an oldie, wearing spencers when i go to a soul do, its the norm for me, and its what ive had since i can ever remember, ive never liked anything else and my margo and pargo are oldies and although im a lover of rare soul im still into the roots and wont ever let the spencer, oxford brogues thing die, the only think im against is the drugs, but at a recent soul do in lytham i was talking to russ winstanley and he thinks thay only 10% pf the wigan crowd were into the drugs, so there you go.xxxx

[TOAD]

10%

he just didnt have a clue ...or is blind

[Guest Ollie Lailey]

Lets just all play proper records eh? Nothing to do with age, I'm 30 and on the rare occasion i play records at people it's got to be original 45's. Don't see the point otherwise.

[Suinoz]

I see your point there Nev. Good thing is that Liam, Callum et al know the 'northern soul ' etiquette. That is firstly no drinks on the dancefloor and respect everyone else's space. Sad thing is today most if not all the youngsters coming in to soul nights insist on drinking on the dancefloor as they are too scared to leave them on tables through fear of either getting them stolen ar worse...spiked. They also ionsist on making nuicances of themselves by pratting around and basically getting on other peoples nerves. It's not new this behaviour, it's the norm in any nightclub in the world. Sadly they don't do themselves any favours and when told about their antics usually come back with a mouthful of abuse and never return. It's not our fault and I don't see a way of educating them. Does anyone have the answer ?????

[Guest Ollie Lailey]

yeah, the answer is kick them out. We don't need a bunch of divs young or not. At the same time I don't see drinking on the dancefloor as a massive problem, as long as they can keep it in a glass.

[Liljimmycrank]

Can only assume that's what it's like in Australia as I don't see it like that over here. At the end of the day, Divs are divs whether young or old.

Not right to brandish all with the same brush, which I would take personal offence to. Besides, what's that got to do with the dj's of the future? Or perhaps these young vagrants you mention are the future!

Edited February 19, 2011 by LilJimmyCrank

[Dylan]

Had a good old read of this forum, and to be quite honest i find that theres a whole confloct between rare soul and the original northern stuff, but to be really honest i was brought up on northern soul (brothers, jimmy conwell, little antony and the imperials, bobby hebb, pookie hudson, carstairs, checkerboard squres etc, could go on for months) but i really hope that once in a while oldies are played and embraced,because that was the foundations, the heart of northern soul and it needs to be brought to a new audeince with the integration between old,rare,and the possibility of a various genre spectrum to keep it going, i almost feel like an oldie, wearing spencers when i go to a soul do, its the norm for me, and its what ive had since i can ever remember, ive never liked anything else and my margo and pargo are oldies and although im a lover of rare soul im still into the roots and wont ever let the spencer, oxford brogues thing die, the only think im against is the drugs, but at a recent soul do in lytham i was talking to russ winstanley and he thinks thay only 10% pf the wigan crowd were into the drugs, so there you go.xxxx

are you related to russ you mention him in every post you make ?

[NEV]

are you related to russ you mention him in every post you make ?

Related??

Think your way off the mark ,Dylan.......sounds more like a teenage crush on Russ

[Chalky]

Can only assume that's what it's like in Australia as I don't see it like that over here. At the end of the day, Divs are divs whether young or old.

Not right to brandish all with the same brush, which I would take personal offence to. Besides, what's that got to do with the dj's of the future? Or perhaps these young vagrants you mention are the future!

Agree with you Azza I don't see too much of that either. If it does happen it's usually local p-ss heads looking for a late drink and more often than not they are put in their place. All the younger ones into the music behave as good as or if not better than many who have been about years.

[burt weedon]

That has got 2 be one of the best blogs ive ever read...........get it on son..........f..k the clicks im with you....PROPPA.

[Guest Bearsy]

are we talking about who will be the djs in the future at Oldies or progressive nights/nighters on the Northern scene ?? if its Oldies nights then does it matter who the dj is as long as they play what the crowd want, if its in the proggressive scene then they have to be their own person and play what they want and if they do and the music is good enough they will get dj spots and if they are really that desperate to dj then attend the venues week in week out get the feel and vibe for todays tunes and put a cd together and introduce yourself to the promoters and ask for as dj spot, in the meantime get your arses out there and watch listen and enjoy and an added bonus have a dance cos if you can dance to it then im sure others can too as for scootering djs coming into the scene, please NO i suffer enough at rallies as it is

[NEV]

That has got 2 be one of the best blogs ive ever read...........get it on son..........f..k the clicks im with you....PROPPA.

And ironically that has to be one of the most confusing?? .......you been on the weed again

[Guest]

Everyone starts somewhere wether your Butch Soul Sam Liam Q Paul Sadot Azza they all had a particular dj they looked to at the start and thought fooking yes now the reason for that is that dj generally was the dog baws in there ears anyway not there age not there looks but simply for the sets they play , introducing them to new sounds , and in most cases there total love for the music . Now future djs imo can be any age a bit of luck a ear for a tune and pure love for the music and whameee your there 18 or 68 if the sets great thats what people remember not age etc havent a clue what age Butch Soul Sam Paul S Azza are oh Happy Birhday today Liam still in his 20s

Kieran

[Dylan]

Related??

Think your way off the mark ,Dylan.......sounds more like a teenage crush on Russ

:lol:

[Guest]

I see your point there Nev. Good thing is that Liam, Callum et al know the 'northern soul ' etiquette. That is firstly no drinks on the dancefloor and respect everyone else's space. Sad thing is today most if not all the youngsters coming in to soul nights insist on drinking on the dancefloor as they are too scared to leave them on tables through fear of either getting them stolen ar worse...spiked. They also ionsist on making nuicances of themselves by pratting around and basically getting on other peoples nerves. It's not new this behaviour, it's the norm in any nightclub in the world. Sadly they don't do themselves any favours and when told about their antics usually come back with a mouthful of abuse and never return. It's not our fault and I don't see a way of educating them. Does anyone have the answer ?????

A picture of the 100 club in words as it is now.

Oli you talk rubbish sometimes, don't mind drinks on the dancefloor as long as they keep it in the glass...........ok then lets tip-toe round the dancefloor for these dickheads.

[Guest Ollie Lailey]

You don't have to tip toe round them Ken, in a ideal world they would not have a drink on the dancefloor in the first place. But its perfectly possible to hold a glass or a bottle and move in time to music without chucking it all over the place. If people are just standing on the dancefloor holding a drink not dancing or dancing in a way that they are getting larger all over the place then they should be told to move to the side. If they can't except that and give verbal then kick them out or smack their bottoms. Anyway this has gone right off topic.

[Guest]

You don't have to tip toe round them Ken, in a ideal world they would not have a drink on the dancefloor in the first place. But its perfectly possible to hold a glass or a bottle and move in time to music without chucking it all over the place. If people are just standing on the dancefloor holding a drink not dancing or dancing in a way that they are getting larger all over the place then they should be told to move to the side. If they can't except that and give verbal then kick them out or smack their bottoms. Anyway this has gone right off topic.

Off topic !! blame suninoz northern soul is for dancin' not not a drink juggling contest.......and sorry to upset you, but folks just standing around on the dancefloor can f**koff aswell

[Guest Ollie Lailey]

I agree mate, my point is if you have to drink on or near a dancefloor carry out a full health and safety risk assessment and go with a trained instructor.

[Little-stevie]

Just back from the weekend and caught up with this topic again...

Its been of interest to many and good points have come forward....

I have never really given age much thought, i just give a chance to some lads/ lasses that don't play out that often, no point me having all guests who play out every week really, just trying to offer an alternative... I know quite a lot of the younger crowd and plenty older crowd too, i just give spots based on what i think will work, age means nothing to me.... Nor does having real depth in collections a lot of the time, a set is 15/ 20 records and i may only ask somed people to play once or twice each year, they could do that with a quality 50 box.., i have had guests who have some of the best/ biggest collections and they have not been on the mark like some who could fit their collections in shoe box

No hard fast rules, i have heard young guys who never played out before really hit the spot, i have heard some who have been around all my life fail to read the crowd and make a Mark.. Some have done a great job for me on a debut without ever being in the club before, some who are regular have failed to really cut it at times.. knowing the crowd/ venue can mean a lot sometimes and little at others... I ask people i have heard before, some who have been talked up by friends and some i aint ever heard or met, thats what keeps it fresh to me, at times we don't have a clue what to expect from the djs, or what crowd will come through the door . If i knew what all the djs were gonna play then no point me or others turning up,i need that buzz of the unexpected...

But its easy for me to take risks as i run small room events and bars not sure you can take the same risks when running a bigger promotion, something to always keep in mind..

One good point for all is to not make statments about the merits or lack of them if you aint been to a certain club or maybe only popped in once... We have a very healthy scene and much variation around the uk and overseas..I see posts from some people making all kinds of statments, these mean little or nothing if you aint been around to various events to compare..

Nowt to worry about, plenty going on from small bars to 1,000 plus room all niters, some great young lads/ ladies and some fantastic old fossils doing the business...

I can travel around Europe to some events a and have a great soul experience, i can travel one mile to the Greatstone soul club and hear the best i have heard anyplace.. Just get out there and do what you wanna do, sometimes too much time taken thinking about it, lifes too short...

Another point to keep in mind is that its not just an old/ young boys club, not nearly as many but some ladies of real merit too...

I don't care about age/ sex/ English or man from the moon .. Just if i think they can do a job for me and get to my venue early doors and stay around afterwards..

Oh and if i like an respect that person, again something i can afford to do when running smaller events... If i think a person is a prick then no matter whats in the box, they aint gonna feature at my events, thats for another topic i guess

[Pete Coulson]

Only a few " Blue Beat " records where played at The Wheel according to my Wheel Friend he said that West Indians had there own " venues"

that is correct, one such venue was the Blue Beat club a couple of streets away from the wheel, we occasionally went in there before the wheel started, bit scarey at first, very few white faces, but we were young and did't give a f**k, oh and off our heads

Edited February 21, 2011 by Pete Coulson

[Guest]

Just back from the weekend and caught up with this topic again...

Its been of interest to many and good points have come forward....

I have never really given age much thought, i just give a chance to some lads/ lasses that don't play out that often, no point me having all guests who play out every week really, just trying to offer an alternative... I know quite a lot of the younger crowd and plenty older crowd too, i just give spots based on what i think will work, age means nothing to me.... Nor does having real depth in collections a lot of the time, a set is 15/ 20 records and i may only ask somed people to play once or twice each year, they could do that with a quality 50 box.., i have had guests who have some of the best/ biggest collections and they have not been on the mark like some who could fit their collections in shoe box

No hard fast rules, i have heard young guys who never played out before really hit the spot, i have heard some who have been around all my life fail to read the crowd and make a Mark.. Some have done a great job for me on a debut without ever being in the club before, some who are regular have failed to really cut it at times.. knowing the crowd/ venue can mean a lot sometimes and little at others... I ask people i have heard before, some who have been talked up by friends and some i aint ever heard or met, thats what keeps it fresh to me, at times we don't have a clue what to expect from the djs, or what crowd will come through the door . If i knew what all the djs were gonna play then no point me or others turning up,i need that buzz of the unexpected...

But its easy for me to take risks as i run small room events and bars not sure you can take the same risks when running a bigger promotion, something to always keep in mind..

One good point for all is to not make statments about the merits or lack of them if you aint been to a certain club or maybe only popped in once... We have a very healthy scene and much variation around the uk and overseas..I see posts from some people making all kinds of statments, these mean little or nothing if you aint been around to various events to compare..

Nowt to worry about, plenty going on from small bars to 1,000 plus room all niters, some great young lads/ ladies and some fantastic old fossils doing the business...

I can travel around Europe to some events a and have a great soul experience, i can travel one mile to the Greatstone soul club and hear the best i have heard anyplace.. Just get out there and do what you wanna do, sometimes too much time taken thinking about it, lifes too short...

Another point to keep in mind is that its not just an old/ young boys club, not nearly as many but some ladies of real merit too...

I don't care about age/ sex/ English or man from the moon .. Just if i think they can do a job for me and get to my venue early doors and stay around afterwards..

Oh and if i like an respect that person, again something i can afford to do when running smaller events... If i think a person is a prick then no matter whats in the box, they aint gonna feature at my events, thats for another topic i guess

Fair play to ya Stevie couldnt agree more with what you've said.

[Raremusicdirect]

Maybe the Northern Scene has to get away from the rare vinyl only obsession and give the kids the music in whatever format suits. Not saying your major all-nighters should be like this but maybe town centre soul nights, particularly city centre ones where you might get a large student population looking for a good time. After all most of todays youngsters have probably never seen a vinyl 45 or even a record player? They have grown up on CD's and the last few years downloads?

If they are interested and keen they will progress to the vinyl. Maybe this is the way to entice new young blood onto the scene. You only have to look at the all-nighter scene in general and the lack of youngsters.

Only have to look at my own son, who is surrounded here by vinyl ;

"all mine fits on the mp3 player and is interchangeable with the tv, iphone and portable player........"

Sees vinyl as "old" ..........

He has some soul on mp3 and loves them, so its best to let them find there way ; maybe the future is djing via cd and laptops ; much as its not for me....

Looking at events that seem to draw the young, I have noted that

• They tend to be town centre based (ease of access and taxi fare away
• Have very mixed music policy
• Don't always play OVO

Best example I visited was Yum Yum, Northampton...............

I think these events though, are very different from the Northern and Rare Soul nites.

Not sure the same will meet......

[SOULCENTRAL]

Biggest problem hurdle imho is "older " people's attitude's toward the "younger "generation.

I know Liam /Callum and Azza personally ,and have to say they are a breath of fresh air to talk to and in all honesty put more time and effort into the scene than most people.

Its also the attitude of the older people that ironically prevents the young from getting more involved in the scene...i say ironically because it's almost become a cliche' to hear people moaning "there are no young'uns coming into the soul scene" then on the other hand when they do try to get involved its all " what do they know ,they havent been around long enough " or "you've gotta serve your time" bollox !

Personally age should'nt matter as much as a persons passion .

Lots of older people don't wanna be surrounded by young people and vice versa, so imho there will more than likely be a kind of parallel scene of younger generation venues running alongside the older ones .

Older venue with a few young uns in and a few oldies in the young venue....now what was the question???

Me being mid-40's like Stevie i can choose to look young in the oldies venue or more mature in the young'uns place

Its all about ATTITUDE .....embrace em or feel threatened by em

HI NEV,

I think you are spot on highlighting the attitude of the older generation towards the younger element of the soul fraternity. Personally i feel this is particularly prevelant amongst the promotors of soul nights and especially all nighters. I have regularly looked on this site and others at the events sections to see if any of the younger djs are appearing at the rare soul and all nighter events but they are conspicuos by there absence. Little evidence there then to dispel the rumours of the niter scene being a closed shop!!!. It seems the promotors just will not give these guys an oppertunity to play.

I have had the pleasure of listening to the likes of Liam Q, Azza, Paul and one or two others and must say they are refreshing in their outlook and playlists. You can see that their inspiration has evolved over time from mod orientated beginnings to northern - soul and rare soul but are true to the ethos of not being blinkered when it comes to their music tastes or influenced by the baggage of the past or present day venues that still live in the past.

Not everything they play is to my taste but then neither is what Andy Dyson or Butch plays at Boomerang either.

Again Nev you mention about the generations not wanting to mix with each other but i have found that if you do not look down on these young men and women and treat them with respect then you can have a great nite out at one of their events. As you say above that its all about attitude so lets embrace these lads becuase they are here and they are GOOD at what they do.

regards ROY

[Guest]

Welcome 'em in, talk to them about the club's/venues music policy, encourage their interest by signposting 'em to different sites, tell them when starting off to get out to as many of the do's in their region as they can, and farther afield if they're willing, ask them to come back, most of all encourage them to spread the word. and dj themselves.

Above all - Get rid of the "snob value" I've Got A Copy And You Have'nae Attitude" as well as the "elitism" Rare Soul by all means but not at the cost of killing the scene in 5 years time when the zimmer frames emerge.

All this all happened to me 2 years go, the people welcomed me into their do's if it had been 30 years ago I would have risked a "duffin up" as I'm Asian. The vast majority of soul people I met at the do's in the North & South were brilliant to me and always encouraged me to come back.

The only sad thing is....... I've never managed to persuade anyone from work to come along -its old mans music they said....also the young people who I have seen in their 20's at some of the soul do's in the last 2 years rarely seem to come back again.

And let me just leave you with one last point.........without that Asda Compilation I would never have been able to get into the scene! The first question I always get asked is Northern Soul then mate..what is it?

So there!

KTF

Mickey

[Guest]

Welcome 'em in, talk to them about the club's/venues music policy, encourage their interest by signposting 'em to different sites, tell them when starting off to get out to as many of the do's in their region as they can, and farther afield if they're willing, ask them to come back, most of all encourage them to spread the word. and dj themselves.

Above all - Get rid of the "snob value" I've Got A Copy And You Have'nae Attitude" as well as the "elitism" Rare Soul by all means but not at the cost of killing the scene in 5 years time when the zimmer frames emerge.

All this all happened to me 2 years go, the people welcomed me into their do's if it had been 30 years ago I would have risked a "duffin up" as I'm Asian. The vast majority of soul people I met at the do's in the North & South were brilliant to me and always encouraged me to come back.

The only sad thing is....... I've never managed to persuade anyone from work to come along -its old mans music they said....also the young people who I have seen in their 20's at some of the soul do's in the last 2 years rarely seem to come back again.

And let me just leave you with one last point.........without that Asda Compilation I would never have been able to get into the scene! The first question I always get asked is Northern Soul then mate..what is it?

So there!

KTF

Mickey

Hi Mickey Its Al how you going pal ? never mind those fools from work they aint got a clue take it easy pal.

[Ian Dewhirst]

Above all - Get rid of the "snob value" I've Got A Copy And You Have'nae Attitude" as well as the "elitism" Rare Soul by all means but not at the cost of killing the scene in 5 years time when the zimmer frames emerge.

And let me just leave you with one last point.........without that Asda Compilation I would never have been able to get into the scene! KTF

Mickey

Those two points are kinda interesting. On the first point, a lot of the younger audiences may be predictably scared off by the age gap, knowledge gap and attitude gap. Those things weren't so much of a problem 40 years ago 'cos the scene was still young and there was less volume of knowledge, so it didn't take too long to get up to speed. Everybody was also the same age give or take 5 years wheras these days it's more like 50 LOL. The attitude will never change but the gestation period is much longer these days. I was only a 'div' for a couple of months and then a bloody DJ within a year.

And, on the second point, given the amount that some of these compilations have sold, you can bet that young people will be listening to this music and getting off on it by themselves. I agree with the point someone made earlier, that new hybrid scenes will develop which will include Northern Soul and probably lots of other stuff. I've been to a few parties just lately where they like to mix it up a bit and it works pretty well with the crowd. I've seen 'em drop some Northern monsters into the mix and send the place nuts.

So the Northern Soul Deejay's of the future will probably come from some musically-interested kid who's just coming up to 11 or 12 about now and who will be listening to his parent's bloody Asda Northern Soul CD's and liking what he's hearing............

Ian D

[Modernsoulsucks]

Mick,

All this all happened to me 2 years go, the people welcomed me into their do's if it had been 30 years ago I would have risked a "duffin up" as I'm Asian.

As I remember Steve from Warrington [who I think is a member here] standing in the record bar at Wigan with us some 35 years ago in a state of unduffedness, I think you may have that wrong.

ROD

[Ian Dewhirst]

As I remember Steve from Warrington [who I think is a member here] standing in the record bar at Wigan with us some 35 years ago in a state of unduffedness, I think you may have that wrong.

ROD

I think the Northern scene was less racist than most places back then now that I think about it........

Ian D

[Wiggyflat]

Theres a great picture I have from an Observer magazine article with a great pic of a load of lads with a record box open proudly displaying Debbie Flemings Long Gone....one of them is an asian feller.

[Ian Dewhirst]

Theres a great picture I have from an Observer magazine article with a great pic of a load of lads with a record box open proudly displaying Debbie Flemings Long Gone....one of them is an asian feller.

Must've been divs 'cos Debbie Fleming was never rare!

Ian D

[Driveller]

Youre young and not got the original vinyl...........sorry get junkshopping and finding sounds.

To me this is perhaps the truest comment on the thread so far. I started buying 60s Soul records (and all the other Mod-type sounds) in the early '80s when I was about 14 years old. They cost me about a quid a time, maybe two, maybe three, what I could afford on my pocket money (I was too young even for a Saturday job!), and I was not alone. I got stuff on labels like Chess, Parkway, Fame, that sort of thing, many of which I played in my early, local DJ spots, and many of which I've still got, and some I still DJ with. In fact, one of my top sounds even today is Pic & Bill "What Does It Take" on Charay. It's a fluke alternative flipside rarity, and in 25+ years of collecting, I've only ever heard of one other copy of it, which Ady Croasdell got from the Charay company offices - if anybody else out there has one or knows anyone who has or has ever had one, please say, because I'd love to know how many copies there really are out there. well, that record cost £2 from a market stall when I was still at school. I remember getting Ray Pollard "It's A Sad Thing" on UK demo for 30p (and I bought it on spec as a Ray Pollard record I didn't know), the Rubies on VeeJay for the same price when it was still covered up, and Liz Lands "Midnight Johnny" for £3 when it was first making a fuss, all from market stalls. And I'm not trying to go on about my 'great finds' as some reflection on myself - everybody I knew did this and they all got results - and you still can. Mark Bicknell has made some good points about digging a bit deeper into ebay to find cheap and interesting stuff, and in fact, while I agree that on one level he is right that with a couple of grand you can get a very useful playbox, I would suggest that we can be even more ambitious and say that with care and time, you could get a decent DJ set (only 15 or 20 records, as Stevie points out) on just a couple of hundred pounds spread out over a few months to a year of patient, careful buying of the type we all probably did once - or still do - something that should be within the reach of most of the young DJs we're talking about. There is sometimes an assumption that all DJs have to have a fair spread of headline-making, wallet-busting 'top' sounds, and this is often taken to provide justification for abandoning the notion of OVO, as these are seen as being beyond the reach of beginners. Well, guess what, Arin Demain was out of my reach when I was young (still is!), but it didn't stop me buying the records I COULD afford and developing my own ear for what I rated. Someone else made this point exactly, of developing your own ear, and I would wholeheartedly endorse what they said. It's also been mentioned (I think in another thread, about 'the next biggies', I think), that some of the next big sounds might be exactly these cheapies. Lee Fields is a perfect example. I had it in my sales box for about 4 years solid in the early '90s for £8 and nobody paid any notice of it whatsoever. It eventually went to a young DJ who was playing in Boogaloo clubs for the Britpop crowd - something which strikes me as very similar to the 'parallel' scene(s) we've been talking about in this thread. the key thing is, that DJ bought it because it suited her ear, not because she was looking for 'big ticket' items to get allnighter spots. Fast-forward to now and and it's one of those big-ticket items that the DJs are desperate for. OK, so maybe it's too late to get the Lee Fields for £8 through 'normal' channels, but what is the NEXT 'Lee Fields'? Is it currently sitting on ebay for £6.99? Is it on somebody's market stall for £2? "Get junkshopping" is exactly the best advice you could give a young DJ, together with "develop your own ear". That's how young DJs will make their mark, and they'll enjoy the journey all the more for doing so, I'll bet.

All the best,

Nick

[Wiggyflat]

See my Turkish junkshop finds............you don't even have to go to the US.Most of the beat stuff I found will be ebayed to supplement the soul stuff.I might even sell the Linda Jones.It's easier now with the internet as you can actually listen to a lot more sounds and seek them out.Before the net it was just picking them out on spec or a TDK C90 tape your mate did.The only problem is how much to bribe your girlfriend/wife with when you want them few hours to wade through the stuff....even soundburgers are a lot cheaper.Even buy stuff you don't really like if you know you can move it on.

[Driveller]

Just seen them - yowch! What a superb kick it is getting junkshop hauls like that!

Nick

[Citizen P]

Youre young and not got the original vinyl...........sorry get junkshopping and finding sounds.

To me this is perhaps the truest comment on the thread so far. I started buying 60s Soul records (and all the other Mod-type sounds) in the early '80s when I was about 14 years old. They cost me about a quid a time, maybe two, maybe three, what I could afford on my pocket money (I was too young even for a Saturday job!), and I was not alone. I got stuff on labels like Chess, Parkway, Fame, that sort of thing, many of which I played in my early, local DJ spots, and many of which I've still got, and some I still DJ with. In fact, one of my top sounds even today is Pic & Bill "What Does It Take" on Charay. It's a fluke alternative flipside rarity, and in 25+ years of collecting, I've only ever heard of one other copy of it, which Ady Croasdell got from the Charay company offices - if anybody else out there has one or knows anyone who has or has ever had one, please say, because I'd love to know how many copies there really are out there. well, that record cost £2 from a market stall when I was still at school. I remember getting Ray Pollard "It's A Sad Thing" on UK demo for 30p (and I bought it on spec as a Ray Pollard record I didn't know), the Rubies on VeeJay for the same price when it was still covered up, and Liz Lands "Midnight Johnny" for £3 when it was first making a fuss, all from market stalls. And I'm not trying to go on about my 'great finds' as some reflection on myself - everybody I knew did this and they all got results - and you still can. Mark Bicknell has made some good points about digging a bit deeper into ebay to find cheap and interesting stuff, and in fact, while I agree that on one level he is right that with a couple of grand you can get a very useful playbox, I would suggest that we can be even more ambitious and say that with care and time, you could get a decent DJ set (only 15 or 20 records, as Stevie points out) on just a couple of hundred pounds spread out over a few months to a year of patient, careful buying of the type we all probably did once - or still do - something that should be within the reach of most of the young DJs we're talking about. There is sometimes an assumption that all DJs have to have a fair spread of headline-making, wallet-busting 'top' sounds, and this is often taken to provide justification for abandoning the notion of OVO, as these are seen as being beyond the reach of beginners. Well, guess what, Arin Demain was out of my reach when I was young (still is!), but it didn't stop me buying the records I COULD afford and developing my own ear for what I rated. Someone else made this point exactly, of developing your own ear, and I would wholeheartedly endorse what they said. It's also been mentioned (I think in another thread, about 'the next biggies', I think), that some of the next big sounds might be exactly these cheapies. Lee Fields is a perfect example. I had it in my sales box for about 4 years solid in the early '90s for £8 and nobody paid any notice of it whatsoever. It eventually went to a young DJ who was playing in Boogaloo clubs for the Britpop crowd - something which strikes me as very similar to the 'parallel' scene(s) we've been talking about in this thread. the key thing is, that DJ bought it because it suited her ear, not because she was looking for 'big ticket' items to get allnighter spots. Fast-forward to now and and it's one of those big-ticket items that the DJs are desperate for. OK, so maybe it's too late to get the Lee Fields for £8 through 'normal' channels, but what is the NEXT 'Lee Fields'? Is it currently sitting on ebay for £6.99? Is it on somebody's market stall for £2? "Get junkshopping" is exactly the best advice you could give a young DJ, together with "develop your own ear". That's how young DJs will make their mark, and they'll enjoy the journey all the more for doing so, I'll bet.

All the best,

Nick

Tony

[Guest]

I love going in the junk shops and charity shops people say you cant find anything when you go in them anymore but you still can. You've just got to be patient I personally love paying 50 pence for something and telling my mates just to wind them up sometimes you can just drop on like ebay you can pick bargins up especially at the moment. I am only 29 and been in to the scene around 14 years I DJ sometimes but I wouldn't call myself a DJ more of a soul music fan.