Northern Soul Deejay's Of The Future ?

[Suinoz]

This is a topic that is discussed at length on many occasions over here in Australia and I'm sure it crops up many, many times in conversations in the U.K. as well. While we collectors who also deejay at many events are fortunate to have the collections of vinyl that continue to fill dancefloors every weekend, year in, year out, just who are going to be the deejay's of the future ? Is it going to be the odd Son or Daughter for that matter who will be allowed to get their hands on the ole' mans prized collection as surely, with the spiralling prices of the big ticket items the up and coming younger folk will hardly be in a position to buy them. I was discussing this with someone on the local radio station ( soul purpose ) the other week and, while he has a certain liking for some of the Northern sounds he admitted to never ever likely being in a position to buy enough to make the move behind the decks. I for one fully expect to continue running and attending soul nights with a passion as long as I have breath in my body, as do many thousands of other devotees out there, but it begs the question as to where we are going to attract enough younger folk to venture into the deejaying field. Yes there are a few more ' younger ' people attending soul nights as I have seen on my many trips back to old blighty, and we are now getting a few more here too, but.... they seem to have no interest besides having a good time on the dancefloor, and no, there is nothing wrong with that. The only younger deejay's, and I compare them to us 50 plus year olds, i have seen behind the decks are playing in the modern rooms, ( Prestatyn for example ). So as not to harp on, If you have the time I would appreciate any positive comments on the subject. Thanks and stay soulful. Tony, South West Soul, Fremantle, Western Australia.

[Soulboy69]

"The Northern Soul deejay's of the future, where are they gonna come from?"

We're here already!!!!

[paultp]

I think if people are willing to wait about 10 years, Northern Soul records will be quite affordable.

Record prices are only sustained by a reasonable number of people wanting records and that won't last more than another decade IMHO.

It will be like the US in the 70's and 80's - piles of unwanted records for people to go through for a quid each. Records that were 10 and 15 quid a few years ago are already like that now.

[Little-stevie]

I can think of many younger djs from 20 up to 40 who are on the scene and playing/ buying tunes of all description... 60s northern/ RnB/ Funk/crossover/ modern/ etc etc etc..

Just back from Italy all djs apart from my self under 40, its the same in Finland, Sweden, Norway, Spain, Germany, France etc etc etc.. These guys collect big ticket and cheap as chips..

The "scene" as we call it can mean different things to many, i take you are on about the tradional northern scene, 60s/ 70s oldies???

In the future its gonna be a much smaller scene and many different styles played under one roof, sometimes seperate rooms and sometimes all in the same room....

There are many younger djs who will take it forward, the problem could/ will be that its a dj/ collector based scene in the whole with not enough straight up punters, both are needed, Most of the younger crowd that i know are collectors/ djs and only a few are just soul loving punters... You need the punters to dance/ the djs to dj and the collectors to chin stroke and think about the 1st 2 options.. This will make for smaller/ tighter underground venues, not the traditional large nighter venues of old.. There can/ will be some large scale events with a mix of scene/ trendies/ tourists to fill it up... Many of us travel overseas to events on a regular basis, this could/ will increase and the uk scene can host djs from all over Europe and beyond...

I and some others are taking up this option at present, the cheap budget airlines will play a big part in all this, if they go and travel becomes a luxury then its gonna be a hardcore with good incomes and even smaller/ less frequent events..

One thing to think about is this talk of big ticket tunes??? i guess they are only worth as much as a person wants to pay?? when the demand falls then so will the price of these items..... The much younger collectors/ djs could be in for some real real bargains ..

Good topic and one thats brought up time and time again... Scenes that court change and can alter direction, not a bad thing in my book...

Maybe the younger djs on this forum can add a word or two... There are gonna be plenty reading this topic at some point...

[Little-stevie]

Under 50 bracket as the benchmark for younger djs, i like that, it still includes me for a few years...

[Jumpinjoan]

Under 50 bracket as the benchmark for younger djs,

Pmsl

[Guest]

Ditto

[Little-stevie]

Pmsl

The topic starter was talking about the scene in OZ in the main i guess, having been over there for the national weekender i know that under 50 is a benchmark, not the same here in the uk and even less so around Europe..

This will have to be taken into account on this thread..

With 50 being the new 30 on this scene now, we have still got plenty left in the tank for a good good few years... No problem...

Just smaller dancefloors required though for sure...

[Guest]

Just smaller dancefloors required though for sure...

No, bigger stronger ones

[Little-stevie]

No, bigger stronger ones

Tell us more Ken????

Why bigger???? depends what we mean by big i guess.. I mean the ballrooms like the Ritz/ Stoke etc as big..

Can understand the strong but not the big part of your answer mate

You ask for big and strong as the scene gets smaller/ older and weaker

[Guest]

I think he mean thicker stronger

[Guest]

I think he mean thicker stronger

No bigger for big dancers

[Steve L]

The young up and coming DJ's are the same as young up and coming dancers/punters in general - few and far between.

Any thoughts of a scene of any appreciable size continuing after our generation fades away is wishful thinking IMO (maybe with the exception of pockets in Europe and various other places)

Sorry if this isnt the positive contribution you asked for Tony but its the way things are/will be I think

Also agree with Pauls comments about record prices falling in the future but thats another subject

[Dylan]

I can think of many younger djs from 20 up to 40 who are on the scene and playing/ buying tunes of all description... 60s northern/ RnB/ Funk/crossover/ modern/ etc etc etc..

Just back from Italy all djs apart from my self under 40, its the same in Finland, Sweden, Norway, Spain, Germany, France etc etc etc.. These guys collect big ticket and cheap as chips..

The "scene" as we call it can mean different things to many, i take you are on about the tradional northern scene, 60s/ 70s oldies???

In the future its gonna be a much smaller scene and many different styles played under one roof, sometimes seperate rooms and sometimes all in the same room....

There are many younger djs who will take it forward, the problem could/ will be that its a dj/ collector based scene in the whole with not enough straight up punters, both are needed, Most of the younger crowd that i know are collectors/ djs and only a few are just soul loving punters... You need the punters to dance/ the djs to dj and the collectors to chin stroke and think about the 1st 2 options.. This will make for smaller/ tighter underground venues, not the traditional large nighter venues of old.. There can/ will be some large scale events with a mix of scene/ trendies/ tourists to fill it up... Many of us travel overseas to events on a regular basis, this could/ will increase and the uk scene can host djs from all over Europe and beyond...

I and some others are taking up this option at present, the cheap budget airlines will play a big part in all this, if they go and travel becomes a luxury then its gonna be a hardcore with good incomes and even smaller/ less frequent events..

One thing to think about is this talk of big ticket tunes??? i guess they are only worth as much as a person wants to pay?? when the demand falls then so will the price of these items..... The much younger collectors/ djs could be in for some real real bargains ..

Good topic and one thats brought up time and time again... Scenes that court change and can alter direction, not a bad thing in my book...

Maybe the younger djs on this forum can add a word or two... There are gonna be plenty reading this topic at some point...

A lot of sense in there steve.

the soul scene will certainly be much smaller scene than what it is now. Although events in europe like oslo soul don't rely on just a soul crowd but also attract a healty amount of younger punters just looking for a good night out.

you've certainly done more than your bit for giving up and coming and younger DJs a chance.

in fact you must know a large % of those who will still be involved in 10-15 years time.

I also agree with the part that most people involved are collectors and to a lesser extent also would like to do a bit of DJ'ing. I hadly ever come across anybody who is just a punter.

I for one am looking forward to all those cheap records.

[Suinoz]

Best I go straight into PANIC mode then Paul and sell up now !! Anyone for a cheap Al Williams, Betty Wilson, Honeybees, Lou Pride ?? and the list goes on !

[Guest]

Best I go straight into PANIC mode then Paul and sell up now !! Anyone for a cheap Al Williams, Betty Wilson, Honeybees, Lou Pride ?? and the list goes on !

" Bags " first look Tony

Malc

[nrc]

I would say if you want to encourage younger DJ,s, give the first spot at the bigger venues to young DJ,s who want to play what they like. Whether their records are expensive or not doesnt make any difference.

[Dylan]

I would say if you want to encourage younger DJ,s, give the first spot at the bigger venues to young DJ,s who want to play what they like. Whether their records are expensive or not doesnt make any difference.

i've been active on the UK soul scene for the best part of 15 years and at a push could be considered young.

i've DJ'd a grand total of zero times in that 15 years.

that tells me

a. my records are rubbish.

or

b. its a closed shop and younger guys need to start a new scene away from the existing one.

Edited February 15, 2011 by dylan

[Mark Bicknell]

The age of a DJ should not come into of course with age comes experence but it should be about if the DJ has the records and can cut the mustard behind the decks and not how old he or she is.

Regards - Mark Bicknell.

[Citizen P]

The topic starter was talking about the scene in OZ in the main i guess, having been over there for the national weekender i know that under 50 is a benchmark, not the same here in the uk and even less so around Europe..

This will have to be taken into account on this thread..

With 50 being the new 30 on this scene now, we have still got plenty left in the tank for a good good few years... No problem...

Steve, I am pleased to confirm that 50 has been the new 30 since 2006.

ATB

Tony

34&three quarters

[pikeys dog]

I think it's getting harder for younger DJs (say between 25 and 35 years old) to gain experience behind the decks as the Allnighter scene is definately a closed shop.

I can't remember the last time I saw a new/different name on a line up -which is partly the reason I haven't been out and about so much lately.

Add to this the fact that local soul nights (the original testing ground for DJs) have slipped into being an oldies fests, with younger DJs (sub 25) being booked as novelties (I'm still waiting for a 'Promotor' to put a Johnny Foetus on, since we've gone as far back as under 11 year olds DJing).

As stated earlier, it's probably going to be down to a younger group of DJs to form a club and put their own events on, appealing to a younger crowd, without as much baggage as the current scene carries.

Edited February 15, 2011 by pikeys dog

[Spacehopper]

think back to when you were 20 would you have gone to clubs full of 50 and even 60 year olds ?!....said before go go children is all ages but weve heard remarks by younguns when they walk in and see the older lot but then they see we can still move so they stay and enjoy it...and a lot come back !

for those venues with only 40 year old and upwards i think you will find as the older ones drop out and sell up to pay for their retirement more youngsters will come into it...

just like when i got into two tone as a teen i started looking into what influenced that scene the youngsters into duffy,amy etc will hopefully start checking out 60s soul..

and then there are the youngsters going on scooter rallies...i know of one who is now a dj and pretty good too...at the moment he can only afford boots and reissues bit im sure in years to come just like most he will start to spend more when he can...

i think this scene and music is bigger than all of us...yes it will have ups and downs like any other....djs will play slightly different styles but hasnt that always been the case from the wheel to wigan to stafford to the increase in rnb and funky northern of today

as for the price of tunes what about the europe and us scenes getting more popular..was reading an old 'that beaten rhythm' last night from the 90s with rumours of an allnighter in barcelona...15 years later and there are regular niters all over europe....maybe in 10 years they will be older and have the cash to buy the mass of expensive collections for sale in the uk

panic ye not...i reckon anyway

dean

[Spacehopper]

and i meant to say with those youngsters will come the new djs !!...weve got a few ex hip hop /funk djs/collecters at go go who are in there 30s and buying and playing more northern today than hip hop....

but i agree younger and more unknown djs should get the chance to play bigger venues of today too

dean

Edited February 15, 2011 by spacehopper

[Guest Wee Mark]

Hello all, my first ever post..... i got into Soul through being a young Mod and the Scooter scene in the mid-eighties and have been DJing at Local scooter Club Do,s and running local club playing 60,s/Soul/Ska for the last 5 years on COMPACT DISC.

I have decided recentlly that a would like to build a SOUL record collection with a veiw to hopefully playing a few dedicated Soul events. I have only been collecting 45,s for a couple of months and finding its very difficult to get a decent box at any pace because of availibility/cost. The Northern/Rare Soul needs to allow new faces to be allowed interpret the scene in their way as with the posts above and not worry so much wether their records are on the right labels or originals etc.

If current DJ,s get a little more relaxed around the unwritten rules of being on the decks it would help others young or old to come through.

Thanks, enjoying being on here...

[Realpeoplesmusic]

Good thread...........

I think it's a great point what Joe said about younger soul fans putting nights on without as much baggage, make it fresh, make it exciting and it's sure to attract younger poeple.....the music is very special and will always be around but it's definitely more to do with the environment the music is played in.

I often wonder about how getting younger types my own age into soul,rnb, latin etc and the thing i always come back to is the venues......Quite often there just off a motorway junc which means if you want to travel you cant have a drink which isn't so much of a problem for the current all-nighter scene but young girls/lads thesedays want to go out get pissed and have fun. The rooms/venues also more often than not the feel very much like a function room (or is that just me?). It doesn't bother me as it's all about the music that's why i travel maybe 3 out of 4 weekends to soul all-nighters/nights. Whenever i show my mates pictures on facebook they always go on about how old people look to which i reply it's all about the music etc, but i suppose it does put younger people off going clubbing surrounded by 50+'s even though the 50+'s can party harder and longer than the younger crowd .

I think in order to get younger people into soul the venue needs to be in a cool city centre venue and feel like a club with a kicking sound system......It needs to be promoted properly with cool flyers, posters, facebook etc....just how the way that things are done these days........it's how people communicate.

Once people discover soul and get more interested and really develop a passion then the natural progession is start to buy the records...everyone starts off cheap then before you know it there's 100ukp just spent on a record.....I remeber taking the piss out of my mate for spending 40 quid on a record....how times change .

I know there's more to it than this but here's my solution:

Younger promoters & Younger DJ's in a City Centre Venue attracting a Younger Crowd playing Quality Music = Great night = NEW SOUL FANS

On the flipside to this and just something to think about......how would lets say the average age of the soul scene 50/55 year old feel partying in a city centre venue with lots of younger types who dont know a massive amount about NS but just turn up and want to dance to quality soul sounds....would it have an effect on you in anyway? Intersting thought

Callum

[Suinoz]

All very good points Dylan and, partly why i opened the thread in the first place. Sounds like you have just got to put your name forward to a few promoters over there and hope someone will give you the chance at a debut spot. The future of the scene relies on up and coming younger folk despite any negatives towards it being for those that were in it from the start. One other thing that struck me after posting the thread was i ommitted to mention that most young people would eventually have huge outlay's for mortgages etc. new families coming along and not too much disposable income to spend on expensive vinyl. Sad but true nonetheless !!

[Ian Parker]

The Hunstanton weekender has a 'DJ Showcase' for up and coming/new DJ's

[Mark Bicknell]

Hello all, my first ever post..... i got into Soul through being a young Mod and the Scooter scene in the mid-eighties and have been DJing at Local scooter Club Do,s and running local club playing 60,s/Soul/Ska for the last 5 years on COMPACT DISC.

I have decided recentlly that a would like to build a SOUL record collection with a veiw to hopefully playing a few dedicated Soul events. I have only been collecting 45,s for a couple of months and finding its very difficult to get a decent box at any pace because of availibility/cost. The Northern/Rare Soul needs to allow new faces to be allowed interpret the scene in their way as with the posts above and not worry so much wether their records are on the right labels or originals etc.

If current DJ,s get a little more relaxed around the unwritten rules of being on the decks it would help others young or old to come through.

Thanks, enjoying being on here...

Hi Mark, collecting records is a very addictive thing to get into as soon as you buy your first record the bug hits and you want the next record, I guess some of us take it for granted and buying records is almost second nature, I wheel, deal, swap, trade it's how I've always done it, I have to pick up on one of your comments that you are finding it hard to get a decent box together due to cost and availability well if you have the funds in place and are selective in what you buy you could this very second go on Ebay for example and almost instantly buy a good selection of records often at 'Buy It Now' prices at any given time on UK Ebay alone there is something like 12,000 records on offer, wade through the crap, bootlegs and overpriced stuff and you can find some pretty tasty records, not to mention the sales section here on Soul Source and the many established record dealers worldwide, perhaps a good starting point for you would be to use your CD collection as a reference point ident the tunes you like and put a wants list together from that, give yourself a budget and with a little hard work and a couple of Grand you could put a very tasty playbox together almost instantly, I feel the availability of records is not the issue here as there are thousands of records out there for sale the problem is perhaps the financial commitment you get into when collecting records as I said at the top of my reply here once the bug hits it can take over pretty quickly, half the joy of collecting is the chase and the process of hunting, locating, buying, getting a record putting in in a nice clean cover placing it in the collection or DJ box and moving onto the next one and that's the problem I would suggest that most if not all collectors are never really happy, never really complete, I'm currently buying stuff I either used to own or which passed me by before infact I've just bought a couple of things which I sold only recently such is the weirdness of collecting Northern Soul lol.

If you stay away from getting involved in the big ticket items which is easy to say until you buy your first biggie then as before it's onto the next one and so it goes but if you can do that with a modest investment as I say you can very quickly put a very solid DJ box together, research and knowing your subject is a big plus, ask questions, suck up all the information you can through Soul Source alone we are learning all the time and is a massive help to collectors/DJ's old and new, good luck but remember once you dip your toe mate the chase is on trouble is you will never quite catch what your looking for no matter how hard you try or how much money you spend lol

Regards - Mark Bicknell.

[Jez Jones]

Hi Mark, collecting records is a very addictive thing to get into as soon as you buy your first record the bug hits and you want the next record, I guess some of us take it for granted and buying records is almost second nature, I wheel, deal, swap, trade it's how I've always done it, I have to pick up on one of your comments that you are finding it hard to get a decent box together due to cost and availability well if you have the funds in place and are selective in what you buy you could this very second go on Ebay for example and almost instantly buy a good selection of records often at 'Buy It Now' prices at any given time on UK Ebay alone there is something like 12,000 records on offer, wade through the crap, bootlegs and overpriced stuff and you can find some pretty tasty records, not to mention the sales section here on Soul Source and the many established record dealers worldwide, perhaps a good starting point for you would be to use your CD collection as a reference point ident the tunes you like and put a wants list together from that, give yourself a budget and with a little hard work and a couple of Grand you could put a very tasty playbox together almost instantly, I feel the availability of records is not the issue here as there are thousands of records out there for sale the problem is perhaps the financial commitment you get into when collecting records as I said at the top of my reply here once the bug hits it can take over pretty quickly, half the joy of collecting is the chase and the process of hunting, locating, buying, getting a record putting in in a nice clean cover placing it in the collection or DJ box and moving onto the next one and that's the problem I would suggest that most if not all collectors are never really happy, never really complete, I'm currently buying stuff I either used to own or which passed me by before infact I've just bought a couple of things which I sold only recently such is the weirdness of collecting Northern Soul lol.

If you stay away from getting involved in the big ticket items which is easy to say until you buy your first biggie then as before it's onto the next one and so it goes but if you can do that with a modest investment as I say you can very quickly put a very solid DJ box together, research and knowing your subject is a big plus, ask questions, suck up all the information you can through Soul Source alone we are learning all the time and is a massive help to collectors/DJ's old and new, good luck but remember once you dip your toe mate the chase is on trouble is you will never quite catch what your looking for no matter how hard you try or how much money you spend lol

Regards - Mark Bicknell.

Great post Mark and sound advice also. A couple of 'younger' collectors I know try and do this, as a consequence have also developed their own 'ear' for the sounds and are ready to take a 'punt' on stuff that appeals to them---resulting in them coming up with a few tidy little northern soul dancers to add to their collection

[Suinoz]

I know what you mean Mark, just take a look at the Willinghams playlist from the Rugby allnighter and see just what you can amass in terms of value of vinyl. Got to wonder if the average person getting into the scene today with a new mortgage, car loan etc. will ever be able to afford anywhere near that sort of collection...I for doubt it very much. When I started to re-build my collection some 6 years ago I was looking at records under 100 pounds. Didn't take long for me to buy my first 1000 pounder. Since then it's just become a total addiction. Where will it end ??? Thank gawd I have a well paid job with a company car / fuel paid and no mortgage to worry about.

[Chalky]

All very good points Dylan and, partly why i opened the thread in the first place. Sounds like you have just got to put your name forward to a few promoters over there and hope someone will give you the chance at a debut spot. The future of the scene relies on up and coming younger folk despite any negatives towards it being for those that were in it from the start. One other thing that struck me after posting the thread was i ommitted to mention that most young people would eventually have huge outlay's for mortgages etc. new families coming along and not too much disposable income to spend on expensive vinyl. Sad but true nonetheless !!

Not all vinyl is expensive, plenty of good £10, £20 & £30 records out there. Not every DJ has to have Al Williams, Lou Pride and other expensive records you list, which as good as they are have been hammered by plenty of DJ's the past 30/40 years.

New upcoming DJ's should be looking at other records, after all they have to offer something that isn't already there otherwise what is the point? It's no good replacing like for like and it is no good chucking a wealth of experience on the scrap heap simply for the sake of it. As long as a Dj is innovative, imaginative and refreshing it matters little how old he is.

[Chalky]

Maybe the Northern Scene has to get away from the rare vinyl only obsession and give the kids the music in whatever format suits. Not saying your major all-nighters should be like this but maybe town centre soul nights, particularly city centre ones where you might get a large student population looking for a good time. After all most of todays youngsters have probably never seen a vinyl 45 or even a record player? They have grown up on CD's and the last few years downloads?

If they are interested and keen they will progress to the vinyl. Maybe this is the way to entice new young blood onto the scene. You only have to look at the all-nighter scene in general and the lack of youngsters.

[Dylan]

I think it's getting harder for younger DJs (say between 25 and 35 years old) to gain experience behind the decks as the Allnighter scene is definately a closed shop.

I can't remember the last time I saw a new/different name on a line up -which is partly the reason I haven't been out and about so much lately.

Add to this the fact that local soul nights (the original testing ground for DJs) have slipped into being an oldies fests, with younger DJs (sub 25) being booked as novelties (I'm still waiting for a 'Promotor' to put a Johnny Foetus on, since we've gone as far back as under 11 year olds DJing).

As stated earlier, it's probably going to be down to a younger group of DJs to form a club and put their own events on, appealing to a younger crowd, without as much baggage as the current scene carries.

thats good to think sombodsy else has the same perspective as me.

[Suinoz]

My sentiment entirely Chalky. They were only as an example and not meant as HAS TO HAVES to any young deejay wanting to ' have a go ' at a soul night. Yes there are plenty of records in the 10 - 20 pound bracket, only trouble is you can go to any one of a hundred soul nights ANYWHERE and here them. To get onto the big stage nowaday's you have to be able to compete and my thread was intended to highlite the problem with young up and coming deejay's being able to, or not get onto that big stage. I was asking for opinions on what might happen in the future, as let's face it we are not gonna last forever. The collections of records will survive long after we have all gone to the big soul night in the sky BUT will there be enough people with the knowledge, money or enthusiasm to play them...and to who ???????????

[Dylan]

Not all vinyl is expensive, plenty of good £10, £20 & £30 records out there. Not every DJ has to have Al Williams, Lou Pride and other expensive records you list, which as good as they are have been hammered by plenty of DJ's the past 30/40 years.

New upcoming DJ's should be looking at other records, after all they have to offer something that isn't already there otherwise what is the point? It's no good replacing like for like and it is no good chucking a wealth of experience on the scrap heap simply for the sake of it. As long as a Dj is innovative, imaginative and refreshing it matters little how old he is.

well thats exactly what i've trioed to do avoid the well well known and expensive records and prewhaps nto go for total unknowns but at least thinsg that haven't been hammered.

[Mark Bicknell]

My sentiment entirely Chalky. They were only as an example and not meant as HAS TO HAVES to any young deejay wanting to ' have a go ' at a soul night. Yes there are plenty of records in the 10 - 20 pound bracket, only trouble is you can go to any one of a hundred soul nights ANYWHERE and here them. To get onto the big stage nowaday's you have to be able to compete and my thread was intended to highlite the problem with young up and coming deejay's being able to, or not get onto that big stage. I was asking for opinions on what might happen in the future, as let's face it we are not gonna last forever. The collections of records will survive long after we have all gone to the big soul night in the sky BUT will there be enough people with the knowledge, money or enthusiasm to play them...and to who ???????????

Yes but the traditions and general mind set of rare soul DJ'ing is to own and play rare records often most of the desired tunes are hard to find and exspensive, also rightly or wrongly the DJ who holds and plays the so called big ticket items will get the kudos and adulation over the DJ who plays lesser valuable tunes sad but true, note I said valuable and not quality as we all know that many cheaper records leave some of the big ticket items for dead it that respect, this is part of the reason why top level DJ'ing would sometimes appear to be a closed shop as some people perceive those DJ's with the big ticket records to be the best at what they do well we all know if you have deep pockets you can buy what records you want but I'm not sure if this route makes you a good DJ or not?

Regards - Mark Bicknell.

[Spacehopper]

great thread good posts and no bitching ...

callum...not sure where you are mate but bristol has go go children...city center venue...young and old...great music unknown to most AND THAT INCLUDES THE SOULIES! and it works....it can be done

as for young dj playing boots..there are plenty of ,dos, that allow reissues aswell as scooter rallies and club dos where you learn how to use the dex and play a set (rather than random tunes)..weve all done it...and before you spend big money as has been said also lots of cheap tunes on original that can fill a floor...and if you search hard enough can get relatively expensive tunes cheap...maybe not a four figure ones bit still great rare soul...just got "shes got to have soul" by bobby blackmon for 28 quid...great uptempo dancer i havnt heard out and it books at 150...not bad i reckon

agree its those big ticket djs getting the big allnighters and weekenders but gotta walk before you can run...

as for the younger generation getting mortgages etc...i hope not !...i hope theyre are not tricked into getting into more debt than they can afford like our generation...most of europe do not buy but are happy to rent and ofcouse its getting harder now to get credit anyway....despite what the poitcians say its not all about getting a foot on the property ladder but gettin it on the dancefloor and enjoying your life!!

dean

[paultp]

Good thread...........

I think it's a great point what Joe said about younger soul fans putting nights on without as much baggage, make it fresh, make it exciting and it's sure to attract younger poeple.....the music is very special and will always be around but it's definitely more to do with the environment the music is played in.

I often wonder about how getting younger types my own age into soul,rnb, latin etc and the thing i always come back to is the venues......Quite often there just off a motorway junc which means if you want to travel you cant have a drink which isn't so much of a problem for the current all-nighter scene but young girls/lads thesedays want to go out get pissed and have fun. The rooms/venues also more often than not the feel very much like a function room (or is that just me?). It doesn't bother me as it's all about the music that's why i travel maybe 3 out of 4 weekends to soul all-nighters/nights. Whenever i show my mates pictures on facebook they always go on about how old people look to which i reply it's all about the music etc, but i suppose it does put younger people off going clubbing surrounded by 50+'s even though the 50+'s can party harder and longer than the younger crowd .

I think in order to get younger people into soul the venue needs to be in a cool city centre venue and feel like a club with a kicking sound system......It needs to be promoted properly with cool flyers, posters, facebook etc....just how the way that things are done these days........it's how people communicate.

Once people discover soul and get more interested and really develop a passion then the natural progession is start to buy the records...everyone starts off cheap then before you know it there's 100ukp just spent on a record.....I remeber taking the piss out of my mate for spending 40 quid on a record....how times change .

I know there's more to it than this but here's my solution:

Younger promoters & Younger DJ's in a City Centre Venue attracting a Younger Crowd playing Quality Music = Great night = NEW SOUL FANS

On the flipside to this and just something to think about......how would lets say the average age of the soul scene 50/55 year old feel partying in a city centre venue with lots of younger types who dont know a massive amount about NS but just turn up and want to dance to quality soul sounds....would it have an effect on you in anyway? Intersting thought

Callum

I said a similar thing in another thread a while back, i.e. if younger people are going to get into soul/raresoul/northern soul they are going to do it in their own way and certainly not involve a load of 50-plussers (that's age not just waist size). They should ban anyone over 30 as well, they'll have more fun that way.

I often hope that wonder if a younger generation has already found the music and us older generation simply don't know about it yet, but that is unlikely in an age when you can view your children vomiting on facebook the day after a night out.

Venues like function rooms? These are the ideal venues for the older crowd because they were the only ones available when we were younger, where our parents used to go, where they used to take us, so we are used to them. Wigan Casino was a ballroom and nighters sprang up from the entrepreneurial venue owners who found they could thus squeeze a second set of entrance fees in the same night and get round the licensing laws by calling it a members club. They couldn't provide alcohol but as you needed some help to stay up all night that didn't present a problem. The young have always been manipulated by the older generations.

These days, the fact that the local workies is falling down around them doesn't seem to have registered with promoters, or put off punters, provided the dance floor hasn't warped too much.

I doubt the original vinyl ethos will endure though, and why should it? The idea that for others to hear a tune played out someone has to lash out hundreds, even thousands of quid is a bit barking to be honest. Its certainly not going to catch on with a new audience anyway. It is only a relatively recent evolution of the scene that tunes played must be on OVO, something introduced so that collectors could protect the value of their collection and create demand as vinyl ceased to be the media of the moment.

In the 70's the method was to find a record; cut some copies for other DJ's to play; press up a load of bootlegs ready for the demand; play the record a lot of times to break it; sell bootlegs from back of van or rear of Blues & Soul.

Mind you, in the 70's, anyone over 30 going out on a night was called grandad. Same as now I suppose.

[Dave Moore]

Hello all, my first ever post..... i got into Soul through being a young Mod and the Scooter scene in the mid-eighties and have been DJing at Local scooter Club Do,s and running local club playing 60,s/Soul/Ska for the last 5 years on COMPACT DISC.

I have decided recentlly that a would like to build a SOUL record collection with a veiw to hopefully playing a few dedicated Soul events. I have only been collecting 45,s for a couple of months and finding its very difficult to get a decent box at any pace because of availibility/cost. The Northern/Rare Soul needs to allow new faces to be allowed interpret the scene in their way as with the posts above and not worry so much wether their records are on the right labels or originals etc.

If current DJ,s get a little more relaxed around the unwritten rules of being on the decks it would help others young or old to come through.

Hi there,

You're not gonna like this but...........it's up to you to meet the criteria of the Soul scene not the soul scene to pander to your criteria in order to make it easier for you to DJ with bootlegs. The way to do it is to build up a collection AND THEN look at DJing NOT the other way round.

Sorry if that sounds a little harsh Mate but that's the way it is, always has been and always will be if you want to be a decent DJ at Northern Soul venues. Otherwise you'll have to do what many others do...start your own venue.

Regards,

Dave

[Dave Moore]

New upcoming DJ's should be looking at other records, after all they have to offer something that isn't already there otherwise what is the point? It's no good replacing like for like and it is no good chucking a wealth of experience on the scrap heap simply for the sake of it. As long as a Dj is innovative, imaginative and refreshing it matters little how old he is.

100%.

I've attended gigs where younger DJs play me a record that they've just paid 300UKP for and it's also owned/played by 90% of existing DJs! They play it, are disappointed with the reaction and can't understand why? Rinse and repeat, rinse and repeat.

As for the younger guys not getting a look in I also agree that there's no point on booking a 25 year old DJ to play Epitome of Sound just because he's 25. Pointless.

The availability of good solid Northern Soul Records is still out there but not in the quantity or at prices they used to be so that's why the younger element 'DJs" latch onto the Mod image. Ska, popcorn, reggae abound in the European clubs side by side. Look at the playlists at Beat Boutique in Manchester. Same scenario there, younger lads wanting to DJ, couldn't compete at the higher levels of the regular Northern Soul scenes so started their own gigs/scene. More power to their elbow I say. Their gigs are well attended and no doubt they'll drag a percentage of their punters with them as they develop. As they grow and develop their collections they'll eventually naturally 'take over' when we've finished but it will be their own creation at the centre of it and not the faded memories of some old ballroom in Wigan.

Regards,

Dave

[Chalky]

My sentiment entirely Chalky. They were only as an example and not meant as HAS TO HAVES to any young deejay wanting to ' have a go ' at a soul night. Yes there are plenty of records in the 10 - 20 pound bracket, only trouble is you can go to any one of a hundred soul nights ANYWHERE and here them. To get onto the big stage nowaday's you have to be able to compete and my thread was intended to highlite the problem with young up and coming deejay's being able to, or not get onto that big stage. I was asking for opinions on what might happen in the future, as let's face it we are not gonna last forever. The collections of records will survive long after we have all gone to the big soul night in the sky BUT will there be enough people with the knowledge, money or enthusiasm to play them...and to who ???????????

I disagree, there are plenty of cheap records you don't hear to often or never hear, it might be like that in Aus, I don't know haven't been so can't comment but here it's not like that. The mainstream NS scene is just the same 200/300 or whatever every week. Of course there are plenty of nights that promote something other than the norm but they aren't the majority, far from it. At a soul night I'm more likely to hear Al Williams, Lou Pride etc than many far cheaper records, what format is a different argument, tired and lazy DJing.....but that gain is a different argument!

Young DJ's shouldn't try and compete, they should do their own thing. If that means setting up their own night to get behind some decks then so be it. After all a promoter puts the money into a night, and it's up to them who they book and an all-nighter for instance isn't cheap to run.

As Dave said it's up to them to prove they can do the business not for the scene to pamper to them. If they are enthusiastic enough, willing to learn they will be in it for the long haul and opportunities will arise eventually.

As the old guard slips away the turn of the young uns will come.

[Chalky]

100%.

I've attended gigs where younger DJs play me a record that they've just paid 300UKP for and it's also owned/played by 90% of existing DJs! They play it, are disappointed with the reaction and can't understand why? Rinse and repeat, rinse and repeat.

As for the younger guys not getting a look in I also agree that there's no point on booking a 25 year old DJ to play Epitome of Sound just because he's 25. Pointless.

The availability of good solid Northern Soul Records is still out there but not in the quantity or at prices they used to be so that's why the younger element 'DJs" latch onto the Mod image. Ska, popcorn, reggae abound in the European clubs side by side. Look at the playlists at Beat Boutique in Manchester. Same scenario there, younger lads wanting to DJ, couldn't compete at the higher levels of the regular Northern Soul scenes so started their own gigs/scene. More power to their elbow I say. Their gigs are well attended and no doubt they'll drag a percentage of their punters with them as they develop. As they grow and develop their collections they'll eventually naturally 'take over' when we've finished but it will be their own creation at the centre of it and not the faded memories of some old ballroom in Wigan.

Regards,

Dave

Agree with all that Dave. I Dj'ed for Azza in Leeds and there was plenty of young uns in there. They don't generally frequent the nighter scene though, not on a weekly basis. Hopefully they will progress as they get more into it and want to get out to different places. But like you say they will bring their own brand of NS to the scene.

[Chalky]

Yes but the traditions and general mind set of rare soul DJ'ing is to own and play rare records often most of the desired tunes are hard to find and exspensive, also rightly or wrongly the DJ who holds and plays the so called big ticket items will get the kudos and adulation over the DJ who plays lesser valuable tunes sad but true, note I said valuable and not quality as we all know that many cheaper records leave some of the big ticket items for dead it that respect, this is part of the reason why top level DJ'ing would sometimes appear to be a closed shop as some people perceive those DJ's with the big ticket records to be the best at what they do well we all know if you have deep pockets you can buy what records you want but I'm not sure if this route makes you a good DJ or not?

Regards - Mark Bicknell.

Spot on Mark

I've heard plenty "Dj" with big ticket items, records that you could buy a house with but the "DJ" couldn't DJ for his tea, the sets simply didn't flow, they mumble when on the mic etc. As I said earlier I would sooner hear someone with imagination than some lazy cheque book DJ.

[Wiganer1]

its not just young djs who need a break on this scene,,,luckily we are seeing shoots of other dj s getting a chance to play there choons ,, opportunities get u experience and then u get better ... trubble is with this scene is theres not enuff whove been on the top who just wont retire ,,but you cant blame them either....also luck plays a massive part in who gets on and who dont,,, big bug bear for me over the years is people who buy their way into the scene,,,you can buy expensive records but you cant buy knowledge and experience.....thing to remember is just ENJOY yourself ,,,it should all be about having fun...

Edited February 16, 2011 by wiganer1

[Paulb]

The soul scene is very much a closed shop dj wise, in my opinion. It is what it is. A scene thta has been kept alive by the same people for 40 years. Quite amazing really, but do those people want some fresh faced young pup behind the decks giving their take of what rare soul is? I don't think so. They want the names they know and thats the reality of it.

We started Beat Boutique to get young people into the music - and it worked. We has to close the doors at midnight last month as it was packed with around 300 in the venue. The crowd is 95% under 35 and they come because they love the music. They don't have the knowledge or understanding or dancefloor etiquette, but they genuinely love the music.

Quite a few of our regulars have gone on to start collecting records and putting their own nights on but not many have joined the soul scene. Only the ones that really get it will ever latch onto the nighter scene as its too much to comprehend for most newbies. Does a room full of 50 yr olds put them off - yes. Does the venue put them off - yes. I didn't put me off, but I'm one of the minority. It has to be a city centre venue and it has to be relevent and exciting and unfortunately it has to be a young crowd.

The soul scene will undergo a massive change in the next ten years. Maybe one decent monthly night to attend with a much more varied music policy and many of the soul "rules" will have to go. The thing is, this excites people like me and I dare say most young people who are on the scene. We want to hear it all, soul, funk, rnb, ska, the lot. Mix it up and keep it fresh.

Soul music will always be around, but the wigan casino grip will be loosened and eventually forgotten and people like me and my friends will be able to have our input in the evolution of the scene.

Edited February 16, 2011 by PaulB

[Dave Moore]

The soul scene is very much a closed shop dj wise, in my opinion. It is what it is. A scene thta has been kept alive by the same people for 40 years. Quite amazing really, but do those people want some fresh faced young pup behind the decks giving their take of what rare soul is? I don't think so. They want the names they know and thats the reality of it.

We started Beat Boutique to get young people into the music - and it worked. We has to close the doors at midnight last month as it was packed with around 300 in the venue. The crowd is 95% under 35 and they come because they love the music. They don't have the knowledge or understanding or dancefloor etiquette, but they genuinely love the music.

Quite a few of our regulars have gone on to start collecting records and putting their own nights on but not many have joined the soul scene. Only the ones that really get it will ever latch onto the nighter scene as its too much to comprehend for most newbies. Does a room full of 50 yr olds put them off - yes. Does the venue put them off - yes. I didn't put me off, but I'm one of the minority. It has to be a city centre venue and it has to be relevent and exciting and unfortunately it has to be a young crowd.

The soul scene will undergo a massive change in the next ten years. Maybe one decent monthly night to attend with a much more varied music policy and many of the soul "rules" will have to go. The thing is, this excites people like me and I dare say most young people who are on the scene. We want to hear it all, soul, funk, rnb, ska, the lot. Mix it up and keep it fresh.

Soul music will always be around, but the wigan casino grip will be loosened and eventually forgotten and people like me and my friends will be able to have our input in the evolution of the scene.

And there you have it. In a nutshell.

Thing is Paul, in 10 years time when you guys take over the reigns you lads will be the next generation of stuck in the mud diehards!!

Actually I don't see your event (s) as part of the Northern Soul scene or even part of it's evolution. I see it as a totally different 'scene'. The mix of Soul, Ska, Reggae, Mod, and the other stuff has never been part of the Northern Allnighter scenario.

I do think though that, as your generation get older you'll see the majority of them ditch the Mod, music, stylee part of their lives and you'll have a much harder time trying to keep it all going than we had. Only time will tell eh?

Regards,

Dave

[Guest Imogen]

Hello all, my first ever post..... i got into Soul through being a young Mod and the Scooter scene in the mid-eighties and have been DJing at Local scooter Club Do,s and running local club playing 60,s/Soul/Ska for the last 5 years on COMPACT DISC.

I have decided recentlly that a would like to build a SOUL record collection with a veiw to hopefully playing a few dedicated Soul events. I have only been collecting 45,s for a couple of months and finding its very difficult to get a decent box at any pace because of availibility/cost. The Northern/Rare Soul needs to allow new faces to be allowed interpret the scene in their way as with the posts above and not worry so much wether their records are on the right labels or originals etc.

If current DJ,s get a little more relaxed around the unwritten rules of being on the decks it would help others young or old to come through.

Thanks, enjoying being on here...

My advice to you is build up a collection first and then think about getting behind the decks. Like Chalky said there are plenty of great cheap records around. You've only been collecting for a couple of months and there are plenty of young dj's out there with decent collections on OVO. In my opinion to become a dj you need to find your own style and also have records that no one else is playing. This does not mean rare or expensive, they could be dirt cheap. So get digging!!!

[Spacehopper]

with respect dave shouldnt that be "post wigan" northern alnighter scene....i was too young to go but im sure ive read AND HAVE heard from people who did go that the flamingo,wheel and torch alnighters all played mod ,rnb,latin, ska and reggae (depending when they were ofcourse)alongside rare soul ,most of which was later called northern

dean

[KevH]

The soul scene is very much a closed shop dj wise, in my opinion. It is what it is. A scene thta has been kept alive by the same people for 40 years. Quite amazing really, but do those people want some fresh faced young pup behind the decks giving their take of what rare soul is? I don't think so. They want the names they know and thats the reality of it.

We started Beat Boutique to get young people into the music - and it worked. We has to close the doors at midnight last month as it was packed with around 300 in the venue. The crowd is 95% under 35 and they come because they love the music. They don't have the knowledge or understanding or dancefloor etiquette, but they genuinely love the music.

Quite a few of our regulars have gone on to start collecting records and putting their own nights on but not many have joined the soul scene. Only the ones that really get it will ever latch onto the nighter scene as its too much to comprehend for most newbies. Does a room full of 50 yr olds put them off - yes. Does the venue put them off - yes. I didn't put me off, but I'm one of the minority. It has to be a city centre venue and it has to be relevent and exciting and unfortunately it has to be a young crowd.

The soul scene will undergo a massive change in the next ten years. Maybe one decent monthly night to attend with a much more varied music policy and many of the soul "rules" will have to go. The thing is, this excites people like me and I dare say most young people who are on the scene. We want to hear it all, soul, funk, rnb, ska, the lot. Mix it up and keep it fresh.

Soul music will always be around, but the wigan casino grip will be loosened and eventually forgotten and people like me and my friends will be able to have our input in the evolution of the scene.

And to add top that Paul,a lot of folks are still smarting from the fact that some have the audacity to start their own nights,because they didn't attend the "right" venue 20 odd years ago.Closed shop? Only if you let folks believe "they know best".

There are dj's coming thru all the time,most in the 40/50 yo bracket.Only to be dismissed as "everyone's a dj nowadays".Which in itself is enough to stop anyone playing their tunes out.

Keep on keeping on Paul.Us lot will be long dead soon....

[TOAD]

Only a few " Blue Beat " records where played at The Wheel according to my Wheel Friend he said that West Indians had there own " venues"