Crossover Soul

[Sean Hampsey]

I realise the following is not an answer to the thread starters original question, but it may help some of those who don't seem to even understand the term in the way its been used these past 20 odd years, never mind the technicalities involved in the production of the music.

Here's my definition or explanation - copied from numerous previous posts on the subject over the last few years!...

The term 'Crossover Soul' was first used over here (in the UK) by Rod Dearlove at Thorne (Canal Tavern) to describe those records produced in the late 60's and early 70's that were neither:-

a) Typical 60's style Soul / Motownesque tunes

or

b ) Typical 70's 'strings n' things' productions.

These types of record had not really gained mass favour on the UK 'Northern' scene as they weren't 'typical' or 'traditional' Motown styled 60's sounding records.

Nor had they been well received on the 'Modern' scene as they weren't necessarily 'uptempo, new or 'zippy' enough for the modern crowd.

These were records produced around that 4-5 year 'crossover' period between the late 60's and the early 70's.

Typical 'Crossover Soul' records referred to at the time that the phrase was first used in this context (late 80's / Early 90's) would have included:-

Bobby Reed "The Time Is Right For Love"

Soul Brothers Inc "That Loving Feeling"

Frank Lynch "Young Girl"

Enchanted Five "Have You Ever"

Vivian Copeland "Key In The Mailbox"

LJ Reynolds "All I Need"

Sandra Wright "Midnight Affair"

Tyrone St German "In A World So Cold"

Sy Hightower "I Wonder Why"

100 Proof "Don't You Wake Me"

Will Hatcher "You Haven't Seen Nothing Yet"

Ray Frazier "These Eyes"

Milton Parker "Women Like It Harder"

None of these had been acknowledged 'Northern' or 'Modern' soul records (wrong tempo and wrong 'sound' for the Northern scene... and far too old for the other).

However, all of the above fitted the 'Crossover Soul' genre and the requirements of the Thorne crowd (of the time) perfectly. Ultimately, though, we have Rod Dearlove to thank for defining the period with the term 'crossover soul' in both the style of music he played, sold and promoted and via his writings in the magazine 'Voices From The Shadows'.

Sean Hampsey

Note: To clarify one grey area: the term 'Crossover Soul' in the UK 'Soul Scene' sense does not refer to music that 'crossed over' from the R&B charts to the mainstream (as in the US sense) nor does it mean records that 'crossed over' from the 'Modern' rooms to the 'Northern' rooms.

In the past 20 or so years (since the phrase was first used to describe records from this period) this 'sound' and type of record has since 'crossed over' to the Northern Scene alerting many people to that rich period of Soul artistry, the late 60's and early 70's... and obviously confusing some folk as to the definition.

[Cunnie]

Fair enough description there Sean.

Think a few years ago I described Crossover as an uncomfortable bed partner of both the Northern & Modern scene sort of fitting somewhere inbetween & still stand by that.

[Guest Brett F]

And moderators, if there is another crossover...'What does it mean ' type thread, please close it...and direct them to the mountain of previous discussions............

[Chalky]

And moderators, if there is another crossover...'What does it mean ' type thread, please close it...and direct them to the mountain of previous discussions............

nobody forces you, with your arm up your back to read these topics Brett. Not everyone has been on this site since the first crossover topic was discussed or indeed as it would appear the last one. I posted links to previous topics but you replied a couple of times since therefore keeping the topic alive.

[Guest Brett F]

nobody forces you, with your arm up your back to read these topics Brett. Not everyone has been on this site since the first crossover topic was discussed or indeed as it would appear the last one. I posted links to previous topics but you replied a couple of times since therefore keeping the topic alive.

Ok point taken, i'll decline from taking part in any of these topics in the future.

[Chalky]

Ok point taken, i'll decline from taking part in any of these topics in the future.

That wasn't my point and think you know it, just saying that not everyone is long standing members like us. Not everyone uses the search facility either.

Anyway back on topic , does anyone know which issue of Voices the article mentioned earlier is in?

[Sean Hampsey]

Anyway back on topic , does anyone know which issue of Voices the article mentioned earlier is in?

Issue 16 mate, the one with Jo Armstead on the cover.

Sean

[Chalky]

Issue 16 mate, the one with Jo Armstead on the cover.

Sean

Cheers pal, if I've still got it i'll try and scan the article.

[dthedrug]

You really are clueless.

Since when did rarity define a misuse style or genre ?

HI , THE DAY I COME ON THE SCENE, ANSWERS YOUR SECONDPOINT, DO YOU HAVE TO BE SO NEGATIVE, AND ANGRY ABOUT THIS SUBJECT, THAT YOU CLEARLY ARE IN TOUCH WITH, HAVE I TOUCHED A NERVE! I AM SURE I READ THAT THERE WERE SOME RARE CROSSOVER RECORDS THAT COMMANDED ABOVE THE MANUFACTURES RRP, ,SO WHY ASK ME THE QUESTION, I LIKE SOUL MUSIC THE EXPLANATION I GAVE IS MY OPINION OF BEING ON THE UK SOUL SCENE FOR ALL MY ADULT LIFE, AND IN PARTICULAR THE RARE SOUL SCENE OR NORTHERN SOUL SCENE, ANY THING THAT USES THE WORD CROSSOVER, MEANS EXACTLY THAT, IT HAS BEEN SANITIZED FOR A MAINSTREAM AUDIENCE, FOR BETTER OR WORSE,

CLUELESS I MAYBE, BUT THE FACT STILL STANDS THE CROSSOVER SCENE WAS MADE BY PEOPLE WHO MISSED THE BOAT ON THE RARE SOUL SCENE, AND THATS A FACT,

AND PLEASE DON'T FORGET TO PLAY THE ESCORTS - LOOK OVER YOUR SHOULDER, AND THEN GET BACK TO YOUR NAME CALLING. I GOT YOU SUSSED DAVE KIL

[KevH]

Can i ask a question?.Is Buddy Conner - "When you're alone",considered crossover?.Danced to it twice (in 2 different rooms) recently at Rugby.

I need to know what i'm dancing to.

[Fuzzj]

couldnt care what it stands for, all i know without it life musically would be incredibly dull no disrespect to northern etc ya all harpin on abart it,

get ya ears round some of the stuff that has emerged from 69 to 74 in the last fifteen years mind blowing

[Shinehead]

Nice version ,also done to good effect by The Worlds Funkiest Band , as for Crossover not in my definition, a bit too gritty.

[KevH]

couldnt care what it stands for, all i know without it life musically would be incredibly dull no disrespect to northern etc ya all harpin on abart it,

get ya ears round some of the stuff that has emerged from 69 to 74 in the last fifteen years mind blowing

Hi Fuzzj,how's about Ron Matlock - "you got the best of me",is that crossover?

[Fuzzj]

dont know that one kev . oh sorry and from 74 to mid 80s

[John Benson]

Cheers pal, if I've still got it i'll try and scan the article.

It's been already posted on here Chalky - Around March 25th 2010, there were 6 PDF files, one for each page. John Reed posted them, but it shouldn't be hard to find.

If for some reason they've 'gone' - I'll upload them .

Just looked and still there, post 223

Edited February 20, 2011 by John Benson

[Guest gordon russell]

Good to know you can always be relied upon to give a totally unbiased and balanced view.....

hello cliff.....hows NAT?....nothing to do with biased mate.........l know you're a fan of this music and thats fine and dandy, l was just giving the nighter view........which anyone will tell ya is spot on. Seems one place in particular has been well and truly knackered by set after set of this genre........well thats what i,m told out and about.....obviously not on this site All the main nighter venues nowadays play to much of this music at their peril........personally l love it!!!...played at the right kind of place or venue ....for me,thats in my lounge overlooking the koi carp lake whilst sipping a well chilled SOAVE......see ya at lifeline mate, your last set there was very good, loved it atb tezza

Edited February 21, 2011 by gordon russell

[Tommy1]

I realise the following is not an answer to the thread starters original question, but it may help some of those who don't seem to even understand the term in the way its been used these past 20 odd years, never mind the technicalities involved in the production of the music.

Here's my definition or explanation - copied from numerous previous posts on the subject over the last few years!...

The term 'Crossover Soul' was first used over here (in the UK) by Rod Dearlove at Thorne (Canal Tavern) to describe those records produced in the late 60's and early 70's that were neither:-

a) Typical 60's style Soul / Motownesque tunes

or

b ) Typical 70's 'strings n' things' productions.

These types of record had not really gained mass favour on the UK 'Northern' scene as they weren't 'typical' or 'traditional' Motown styled 60's sounding records.

Nor had they been well received on the 'Modern' scene as they weren't necessarily 'uptempo, new or 'zippy' enough for the modern crowd.

These were records produced around that 4-5 year 'crossover' period between the late 60's and the early 70's.

Typical 'Crossover Soul' records referred to at the time that the phrase was first used in this context (late 80's / Early 90's) would have included:-

Bobby Reed "The Time Is Right For Love"

Soul Brothers Inc "That Loving Feeling"

Frank Lynch "Young Girl"

Enchanted Five "Have You Ever"

Vivian Copeland "Key In The Mailbox"

LJ Reynolds "All I Need"

Sandra Wright "Midnight Affair"

Tyrone St German "In A World So Cold"

Sy Hightower "I Wonder Why"

100 Proof "Don't You Wake Me"

Will Hatcher "You Haven't Seen Nothing Yet"

Ray Frazier "These Eyes"

Milton Parker "Women Like It Harder"

None of these had been acknowledged 'Northern' or 'Modern' soul records (wrong tempo and wrong 'sound' for the Northern scene... and far too old for the other).

However, all of the above fitted the 'Crossover Soul' genre and the requirements of the Thorne crowd (of the time) perfectly. Ultimately, though, we have Rod Dearlove to thank for defining the period with the term 'crossover soul' in both the style of music he played, sold and promoted and via his writings in the magazine 'Voices From The Shadows'.

Sean Hampsey

Note: To clarify one grey area: the term 'Crossover Soul' in the UK 'Soul Scene' sense does not refer to music that 'crossed over' from the R&B charts to the mainstream (as in the US sense) nor does it mean records that 'crossed over' from the 'Modern' rooms to the 'Northern' rooms.

In the past 20 or so years (since the phrase was first used to describe records from this period) this 'sound' and type of record has since 'crossed over' to the Northern Scene alerting many people to that rich period of Soul artistry, the late 60's and early 70's... and obviously confusing some folk as to the definition.

Thanks Sean, this is what I've always thought it was, but the sound that Rod Dearlove at Thorne is trying to describe, could not have happened without a technically change. And it was that I needed a short and good explanation of which I got it early in the tread from garethx.

The discussion of what does fit this term is a never ending story it seems, I did not know that it had been discussed for years. So to guys like Brett, I'm sorry to bring it back on, but to me this forum is the best in the world when you need an answer to a questions related to soul music, and again I got my answer.

[Chalky]

hello cliff.....hows NAT?....nothing to do with biased mate.........l know you're a fan of this music and thats fine and dandy, l was just giving the nighter view........which anyone will tell ya is spot on. Seems one place in particular has been well and truly knackered by set after set of this genre........well thats what i,m told out and about.....obviously not on this site All the main nighter venues nowadays play to much of this music at their peril........personally l love it!!!...played at the right kind of place or venue ....for me,thats in my lounge overlooking the koi carp lake whilst sipping a well chilled SOAVE......see ya at lifeline mate, your last set there was very good, loved it atb tezza

The topic didn't ask for a nighter view of crossover, or more specifically your view, it asked what crossover is and to be honest we all know what your view is when it comes to what should be played at all-nighters so there is no need to keep reminding everyone at every opportunity. It's a question of balance, one tempo all night of anything isn't good. Most folk want dancers be that uptempo, midtempo or whatever tempo, they don't care as long as it is danceable.

[Guest gordon russell]

The topic didn't ask for a nighter view of crossover, or more specifically your view, it asked what crossover is and to be honest we all know what your view is when it comes to what should be played at all-nighters so there is no need to keep reminding everyone at every opportunity. It's a question of balance, one tempo all night of anything isn't good. Most folk want dancers be that uptempo, midtempo or whatever tempo, they don't care as long as it is danceable.

sorry chalky...........l got it all wrong again................didn,t realise that a nighter perspective of crossover music was banned. My first post was just for a bit of a laugh, the impact of this music at nighters obviously has absolutely no baring on the matter at all and of course as this is a serious subject l take back my earlier posts unreservedly. how about this,is this o.k? crossover soul music is really good

p.s you don,t do to bad chalks, at reminding us all at every oppertunity what you like atb see ya at lifeline

[NEV]

The topic didn't ask for a nighter view of crossover, or more specifically your view, it asked what crossover is and to be honest we all know what your view is when it comes to what should be played at all-nighters so there is no need to keep reminding everyone at every opportunity. It's a question of balance, one tempo all night of anything isn't good. Most folk want dancers be that uptempo, midtempo or whatever tempo, they don't care as long as it is danceable.

As you rightly say Chalks ..its not what the topic poster asked for , but seen as it's been dragged down that road ....the bit ive highlited is the best and most sensible thing i've read .

Apart from the fact imho "pigeon holeing" has probably caused more segregation of the soul scene ,people playing a whole set of the same thing becomes mundane.

[Winnie :-)]

crossover soul music is really good :thumbsup:

Edited February 21, 2011 by Winnie :-)

[Fuzzj]

just remembered he knows what it means john edwards usa medium

[Raremusicdirect]

Crossover is quiet tricky to define, especially as I don't have a musically background to get technical, but I know when I hear it

Think everyone has a slight personal view on it, as so most of us on most genres / styles.

To me it can be distinct from 70ts Soul, its definitely not Disco and isn't considered Northern or RnB - so thats what its not imho

These are the sort of tunes I consider crossover :

El Anthony - We've Been In Love Before

Leon Haywood - Its Got To Be Mellow

Velvet Hammer - Happy

Roger Hatcher - Sweetest Girl In The World

Norwood Long - I Got To Have You

Quinn Harris - I'll Always Love You

Jades - Lucky Fellow

I haven't heard many crossover sets out and about and welcome recommendations of where to currently hear it, last set I heard was from Tom, Banbury in Rugby Room 2 last year.....

I understand those who say its just 70ts soul, but thats a bit broad for me as it can include artists I don't consider crossover...

[Chalky]

sorry chalky...........l got it all wrong again................didn,t realise that a nighter perspective of crossover music was banned. My first post was just for a bit of a laugh, the impact of this music at nighters obviously has absolutely no baring on the matter at all and of course as this is a serious subject l take back my earlier posts unreservedly. how about this,is this o.k? crossover soul music is really good

p.s you don,t do to bad chalks, at reminding us all at every oppertunity what you like atb see ya at lifeline

It wasn't a nighter perspective that you gave but your opinion and what crossover does at an all-nighter not what it is.

Like you I want to hear dancers when I go out, I don't what to hear funeral music but I don't mind and want a change in tempo otherwise the music simply blurs into the next record and simply becomes a noise. Neither do I constantly tell people what should and shouldn't be played and I only give my preferences in context of the topic, not every opportunity. I also agree with you too much crossover isn't what an all-nighter wants or needs, wrong tempo by and large but that wasn't the question. Like I said it is a question of balance.

Right back on topic you uptempo terrorist, give us some examples (for the sake of the topic) of crossover you love to listen to in your lounge overlooking the koi carp lake whilst sipping a well chilled Soave.

[Guest]

Very interesting question and differing views. Cross over was a description given when a piece of music which had been made for a particular audience, say Pop, Rock or Jazz reached across that particular Genre to become popular with another ..in this case, Northern Soul. Mitch Ryder, Frankie Valli and Bobby Sheen are among notable crossover artists.

[Guest Brett F]

Very interesting question and differing views. Cross over was a description given when a piece of music which had been made for a particular audience, say Pop, Rock or Jazz reached across that particular Genre to become popular with another ..in this case, Northern Soul. Mitch Ryder, Frankie Valli and Bobby Sheen are among notable crossover artists.

No, no, no…..how many more times, Crossover is just a semantic that is idiosyncratic to the UK rare soul scene………

This is the only type of CROSSOVER this whole bloody topic is dealing with…………….Do people just have selective reading on these topics, Sean Hampsey gave the true description…it's not up for argument………………..

Edited February 21, 2011 by Brett F

[NEV]

Brett....the tragedy of it all is..people on here have posted up 177 pages of songs in refosoul ,to highlight what represents a cross over sound.

I'm pretty sure listening to a few pages would give the original poster a good idea of how to identify a cross over tune!

[Guest Dave Turner]

No, no, no.....how many more times, Crossover is just a semantic that is idiosyncratic to the UK rare soul scene.........

This is the only type of CROSSOVER this whole bloody topic is dealing with................Do people just have selective reading on these topics, Sean Hampsey gave the true description...it's not up for argument....................

Sorry to laugh Brett, I was waiting for summat like that. I can almost see the steam coming out yer ears.

And by the way i agree with you, Sean nailed it.

Hope he's saved it so he can copy & paste next year

Edited February 21, 2011 by Dave Turner

[Winnie :-)]

Sorry to laugh Brett, I was waiting for summat like that. I can almost see the steam coming out yer ears.

And by the way i agree with you, Sean nailed it.

Hope he's saved it so he can copy & paste next year

Things have improved then, 4/5 years ago it was a fortnightly feature.........

[Dave Abbott]

It's music - good or bad; surely

[Rugby Soul Club]

It's a question of balance, one tempo all night of anything isn't good.

It's music - good or bad; surely

Defo the best two quotes, sorry Peggy but you are wrong...honest in your opinion but wrong...

and at your age love, you need a chance to sit down and rest...

Now, as a woman, I will go back to the kitchen and know my place...

[Guest]

Funny when we get a bee in our bonnet about a modest issue, I have no idea of the origin or timescale of this subject thread, how controversial, or how far up your nose it tickles. If the original accepted use of 'crossover' has changed and is now applicable only to a rare soul moment or movement .. then so be it. I don't get out that much. ...come drag me into the seventies.

[Guest gordon russell]

Defo the best two quotes, sorry Peggy but you are wrong...honest in your opinion but wrong...

and at your age love, you need a chance to sit down and rest...

Now, as a woman, I will go back to the kitchen and know my place...

ha ha........hello there.........well this is a topic about crossover not tempo at nighters..........but JUST FOR THE RECORD as people read,but don,t read my thought is and always has been the period from 3/3.30ish onwards should be about more uptmpo music regardless of genre........however most promoters choose to let their nighters die at this time , thats their choice by putting on a dj that will play the wrong type of tune thus killing the night SO THATS AN END TO THAT. this is about crossover and l think it,s bloody marvelous and it helps me drift off to sleep..........atb Toby La Rohne

p.s This discussion is largely academic as l have learn,t to go to nighters and not bother at all with the music......with one exception

Edited February 21, 2011 by gordon russell

[Steve L]

Funny when we get a bee in our bonnet about a modest issue, I have no idea of the origin or timescale of this subject thread, how controversial, or how far up your nose it tickles. If the original accepted use of 'crossover' has changed and is now applicable only to a rare soul moment or movement .. then so be it. I don't get out that much. ...come drag me into the seventies.

Sorry mate but Brett's right the topic of this thread is crossover soul in the context of the rare soul scene. Dont know where you're from or what your background is so I dont know if you can Identify with this or not. The words can be used in lots of different way but thats the one we're talking about here

Also right is the statement that Sean Hampseys post nails the definition for me its simple late 60s/early70s soul that doesnt clearly sound like one or the other - its really that simple.

[Guest]

Many thanks for the explanation Steve. This being my first venture into the forum thing. The question appeared to be 'what does crossover mean technically?' The first time I remember hearing the term was around the summer of 1967 .. in Ralph's records Manchester to be precise... Tony explaining to me that it was simply where a piece of music would cross genre to be picked up by Soul boys. There was of course that element of white men can't play Blues thing buried in there, as many of the so called crossovers tended to be from white singers and groups, like Wynder K Frog for example. It was only a by the by term as all we cared about was whether the sound was any good. I can't imagine how the term morphed into it's present meaning, or apparent importance, when a new word could have been conjured up, 'Warp' may have sounded appropriate... but there you go .. we were all Gay in those days.

[KevH]

Many thanks for the explanation Steve. This being my first venture into the forum thing. The question appeared to be 'what does crossover mean technically?' The first time I remember hearing the term was around the summer of 1967 .. in Ralph's records Manchester to be precise... Tony explaining to me that it was simply where a piece of music would cross genre to be picked up by Soul boys. There was of course that element of white men can't play Blues thing buried in there, as many of the so called crossovers tended to be from white singers and groups, like Wynder K Frog for example. It was only a by the by term as all we cared about was whether the sound was any good. I can't imagine how the term morphed into it's present meaning, or apparent importance, when a new word could have been conjured up, 'Warp' may have sounded appropriate... but there you go .. we were all Gay in those days.

were we?

[Sean Hampsey]

Many thanks for the explanation Steve. This being my first venture into the forum thing. The question appeared to be 'what does crossover mean technically?' The first time I remember hearing the term was around the summer of 1967 .. in Ralph's records Manchester to be precise... Tony explaining to me that it was simply where a piece of music would cross genre to be picked up by Soul boys. There was of course that element of white men can't play Blues thing buried in there, as many of the so called crossovers tended to be from white singers and groups, like Wynder K Frog for example. It was only a by the by term as all we cared about was whether the sound was any good. I can't imagine how the term morphed into it's present meaning, or apparent importance, when a new word could have been conjured up, 'Warp' may have sounded appropriate... but there you go .. we were all Gay in those days.

I think that's fair comment Doc.

It's unfortunate really that Rod (and others) decided to call Soul Music from the late 60's and early 70's 'crossover' (as in the period which 'crossed over' the decades) as it is a word, phrase or description that had numerous well worn connotations within music already.

We're all familiar with the terminology being used when a record 'crossed over' from the genre specific charts (R&B, Country etc.) into the mainstream music or Billboard charts. I'm not in the least bit surprised to find that there are over 12,000 pages using the term 'crossover country hit' on Google.

It's also a phrase 'sometimes' attributed to the music which 'crosses' over from the 'Modern' soul side of our scene onto the 'Northern' scene etc. to confuse matters further!

But in the context of the past 20 years, it mostly refers to the music which crossed over the decades (60's & 70's) when the style and production of our music changed from simple four beats to the bar (known as 4/4 or 'common time' to a musician) to more complex rhythms and increasingly sophisticated arrangements.

Its worth noting that it wasn't only Soul Music that became more complex during this period. Rock (and even Classical music) also undertook a bit of a revolution with the advent and use of synthesizers and other advanced technologies. Anyone familiar with the 1968 album 'Switched On Bach' will surely agree.

Music was to change forever and was no longer confined to the classic musical instrument ensemble. Experimentation was the norm and much of this manifested itself in the music of Hendrix, Sly Stewart and Norman Whitfield etc. with which we're all much more familiar.

Personally, as a trumpet player myself, I much prefer my Soul Music raw and natural with singers backed by a traditional band consisting of rhythm section and horns. But there's no denying that in that rich 'crossover of decades' period (and before DISCO got hold and threw many of our favourite artists a curved ball) Black America was still very capable of producing some stunningly soulful (and, yes, even danceable) music, whatever rhythm, musical arrangement or production technique was employed.

Sean

[Guest Paul]

Hello Sean,

I always thought 'crossover' was an awkward term for the music involved, but no worse than the terms 'northern' and 'modern', and the name has been accepted by many soul fans so that's okay with me.

But I think the danger with the 'crossover' tag is that some people seem to use it to describe any soul music which isn't obviously 'northern' or 'modern'. I've even seen a few 'deep soul' ballads described as crossover' in the last few years.

At least the 'crossover' thing has brought much deserved attention to many great soul records which for some people didn't really fit in to a category.

And that's a good thing.

[Sean Hampsey]

I always thought 'crossover' was an awkward term for the music involved, but no worse than the terms 'northern' and 'modern', and the name has been accepted by many soul fans so that's okay with me.

But I think the danger with the 'crossover' tag is that some people seem to use it to describe any soul music which isn't obviously 'northern' or 'modern'. I've even seen a few 'deep soul' ballads described as crossover' in the last few years.

Agree Paul.

It gets complicated.

Which is why I prefer 'Just Soul'.

Sean

[manus]

Hello Sean,

I always thought 'crossover' was an awkward term for the music involved, but no worse than the terms 'northern' and 'modern', and the name has been accepted by many soul fans so that's okay with me.

But I think the danger with the 'crossover' tag is that some people seem to use it to describe any soul music which isn't obviously 'northern' or 'modern'. I've even seen a few 'deep soul' ballads described as crossover' in the last few years.

At least the 'crossover' thing has brought much deserved attention to many great soul records which for some people didn't really fit in to a category.

And that's a good thing.

Hello Paul

I often put ballads into the Crossover thread on here but it's not because I believe that they are Crossover or should be described as such but more to do with sharing them with the people that frequent the Crossover thread and the fact that they are open minded and tend to judge a record on it's Soul content. I'm personally a bit worn out with the need to catergorise everything and I see the Crossover thread as simply a place to put good Soul music and discuss it with like minded people.

All the best mate

Manus

[Chalky]

Hello Paul

I often put ballads into the Crossover thread on here but it's not because I believe that they are Crossover or should be described as such but more to do with sharing them with the people that frequent the Crossover thread and the fact that they are open minded and tend to judge a record on it's Soul content. I'm personally a bit worn out with the need to catergorise everything and I see the Crossover thread as simply a place to put good Soul music and discuss it with like minded people.

All the best mate

Manus

There is a ballad topic in refosoul somewhere. Thats where things start to get confusing when tracks that aren't what the topic is about are added.

[Guest Paul]

Hello Paul

I often put ballads into the Crossover thread on here but it's not because I believe that they are Crossover or should be described as such but more to do with sharing them with the people that frequent the Crossover thread and the fact that they are open minded and tend to judge a record on it's Soul content. I'm personally a bit worn out with the need to catergorise everything and I see the Crossover thread as simply a place to put good Soul music and discuss it with like minded people.

All the best mate

Manus

Hello Manus,

I've done the same thing because it just seems the most convenient thread on soulsource for anything soulful and downtempo that isn't 'northern' or 'modern'. And, like you, I usually expect the 'crossover' people to be more interested in soulful ballads etc.

When it comes to beat ballads, I suppose there are many tracks which can easily be described as both 'deep soul' and 'crossover'. And if a track happens to be from the southern states, someone else will always categorise it as 'southern soul' anyway.

It's proof that categories can mean different things to different people and aren't always very necessary anyway (at least to some).

What we need are even more categories!

Best wishes,

Paul

[Steve Edgar]

Hello Paul

I often put ballads into the Crossover thread on here but it's not because I believe that they are Crossover or should be described as such but more to do with sharing them with the people that frequent the Crossover thread and the fact that they are open minded and tend to judge a record on it's Soul content. I'm personally a bit worn out with the need to catergorise everything and I see the Crossover thread as simply a place to put good Soul music and discuss it with like minded people.

All the best mate

Manus

There is a ballad topic in refosoul somewhere. Thats where things start to get confusing when tracks that aren't what the topic is about are added.

I agree with Manus here, I think the "Crossover" thread has developed into a very broad church of music, it has been running for so long now, and has certainly gained a good following of like minded people, and long may it last in it's present format. Maybe that thread should be just re-named to "Crossing over to good Soul"

steve

[Guest Paul]

I prefer the days when there were less categories.

One of my favourite categories was "File under POPULAR: Male Vocal"

[Guest Brett F]

I prefer the days when there were less categories.

One of my favourite categories was "File under POPULAR: Male Vocal"

I do agree in general, that it is annoying putting things in boxes then stamping them with labels, but and this is the big 'but'.....we actually use these terms to describe a soul night/nighter etc, it gives the punter an idea of what he/she is going to get, if i see some small night classed Wigan oldies run by mates i think pressings and fancy dress......(thats just a joke by the way,) but if i phone my wife up and ask her 'what's for tea' and she replys ' Food ! '......you get the picture, a necessary evil me thinks....

Even my good man Mr Hampsey uses clever reverse psychology when he describes his event 'Just Soul'...

Not just Northern, Not just Modern, Not just Crossover... Just Soul!.....................

Edited February 24, 2011 by Brett F

[Baz Atkinson]

ahhhh GOOD DISCUSSION EH -Steve just renamed the thread for you and the many other soul lovers on the Thread "crossover to soul thread" people can call it what there want to be honest -its just GREAT soul music mainly from the seventies !!

BAZ A

[Guest Paul]

ahhhh GOOD DISCUSSION EH -Steve just renamed the thread for you and the many other soul lovers on the Thread "crossover to soul thread" people can call it what there want to be honest -its just GREAT soul music mainly from the seventies !!

BAZ A

Hello Baz,

"Crossover to soul" makes sense and widens the scope a bit more.

Anything goes as long as it's soulful.

[manus]

I prefer the days when there were less categories.

One of my favourite categories was "File under POPULAR: Male Vocal"

[manus]

I agree with Manus here, I think the "Crossover" thread has developed into a very broad church of music, it has been running for so long now, and has certainly gained a good following of like minded people, and long may it last in it's present format. Maybe that thread should be just re-named to "Crossing over to good Soul"

steve

Good idea Steve and Baz has already been on the case and renamed the thread.

Cheers

Manus

[dthedrug]

HI ALL,,, AFTER FOLLOWING THIS THREAD. I AM STILL NO WISER ON THE PRESENT USE OF THE WORD CROSSOVER, MY OPENING REMARK ABOUT IT BEING A CHEAP WAY, TO GET RARE SOUL COLLECTION , AND A TERM TO DESCRIBE SOUL MUSIC THAT DOES NOT FIT THE OTHER CATEGORIES SO NEATLY AS RARE 60s, NORTHERN SOUL, MODERN SOUL, R&B, 70s UPTEMPO SOUL, FUNK, SOUTHERN SOUL, I STATED THAT THE TERM USED TO STAND FOR IN GENERAL TERMS WITH CHART HIT SOUL & RECORDS FROM THE RARE SOUL SCENE LIKE ROBERT KNIGHT, TAMI LYNN, FORMATIONS, FRANKIE VALI, AS BLACK MUSIC FOUND AN OVERGROUND IN DISCO, WHICH WAS A JUXTAPOSITION ON HOW R&B FROM THE 50s WITH SANITIZED VERSION COVERED BY WHITE SINGERS FOR A WHITE MARKET, DISCO EMBRACED THE ACCEPTANCE OF BLACK & WHITE TOGETHERNESS AND AS IT DEVELOPED INTO HIGH ENERGY IT MADE OTHER SUB CULTURES ACCEPTABLE MOST NOTABLE WAS THE IT'S OK TO BE GAY, HOWEVER THE SOUL PURITY WAS UNPALATABLE TO MOST NORTHER SOUL COLLECTORS, EVEN THE CROSSOVER BLACK MUSIC, ALTHOUGH POPULAR, WAS NETHER PURCHASED, DONNA SUMMER COMES TO MIND, IS THIS WHAT YOU MEAN BY CROSSOVER SOUL, IF HER HITS HAD BEEN POOR SELLERS OR IS IT THE RECORDS LIKE THE POP SOUL OF THE STYLISTICS 4 TOPS, CHI LITES ALL CLASSICS IN MY OPINION, BUT THE FAILED POP SOUL, IS THAT CROSSOVER, WE ALL LOVE ALL TYPES OF SOUL MUSIC, I ASSUME THATS WHY WE ARE SO EMOTIONAL ON THE SCENE,

CAN ANY BODY WHO PASSIONATELY COLLECTS CROSSOVER GIVE A DEFINITIVE DEFAMATION ON THERE USE OF THE WORD CROSSOVER, AS THIS THREAD WILL BECOME POINTLESS, INSTEAD OF CONSTRUCTIVE??

SOUL BROTHER DAVE KIL