Crossover Soul

[Tommy1]

Can anyone explain the term crossover soul. I know the sound when I hear it, but what does it mean technically, what in the production of records changed from late 60 to early 70s?

[Tommy1]

Anyone?

[Dave Moore]

As good a definition as any.

Regards,

Dave

[Guest CapitolSC]

Best to get Kents Lets do the crossover cds vol 1 and 2

Everything will be explained

Al H

[Sutty]

what in the production of records changed from late 60 to early 70s?

advances in technology, much like it has changed the sound of music all along

cheers Sutty

[Smudger]

Crossover Soul ? a laid back and more sophisticated production as apposed to northern in your face stompers or the more commercial of the motown catalogue etc.for instance the B side of 60's classic Bobby Sheen Dr Love , Sweet Sweet Love,Barbara Acklin Am i the same girl and Marvin gaye Come get to this.It is hard to explain but as soon as you hear a record you know.That said it is only a Tag that we as collectors and listeners have put on a sound so that if a venue advertise Crossover you should instantly have an idea of the type of music to be played.It's all soul when said and done. Thats what it means for me anyway.

[Tommy1]

Crossover Soul ? a laid back and more sophisticated production as apposed to northern in your face stompers or the more commercial of the motown catalogue etc.for instance the B side of 60's classic Bobby Sheen Dr Love , Sweet Sweet Love,Barbara Acklin Am i the same girl and Marvin gaye Come get to this.It is hard to explain but as soon as you hear a record you know.That said it is only a Tag that we as collectors and listeners have put on a sound so that if a venue advertise Crossover you should instantly have an idea of the type of music to be played.It's all soul when said and done. Thats what it means for me anyway.

This is how I would describe it too, but how to describe the "sophisticated production" technically? What was the advances in technology that made the "raw" 60s sound change into the more "polished" 70s sound. Maybe I need to buy Kents Lets do the crossover cds vol 1 and 2

[Garethx]

A simple and major technological change of the late 60s was the move to multi-track recording. Layering of different voices and instruments became much easier and production could become more complex and ambitious. Whether this was necessarily a good thing is down to personal taste I suppose.

[Guest Brett F]

Gareth has got the main gist in my opinion, here is a good link, just to see how the music recording industry moved on..Interesting no matter what music you like.

https://en.wikipedia....track_recording

Edited February 13, 2011 by Brett F

[Mark Bicknell]

You need a pair of these to really be into Crossover lol

[Smudger]

Shunt it be hearing aids !

[Swifty]

Crossover is all the records I had in the 70's/80's that I never used to play and ended up chucking

them away , DOH!

Swifty

[Shinehead]

If the Northern crowd like it its Northern if they don't its Crossover.

[Dylan]

when does it stop being x-over and start being modern....

[Sean Hampsey]

when does it stop being x-over and start being modern....

When they stopped using musicians...

Sean

[Chalky]

topic has been well discussed on here, some former topics...

[Cunnie]

when does it stop being x-over and start being modern....

When they started making music you can dance to again...

Martin

[Simon M]

When they started making music you can dance to again...

Martin

Well said !!

[Tommy1]

A simple and major technological change of the late 60s was the move to multi-track recording. Layering of different voices and instruments became much easier and production could become more complex and ambitious. Whether this was necessarily a good thing is down to personal taste I suppose.

Thanks!

[dthedrug]

HI ALL ... CROSSOVER WELL THERE ARE SEVERAL VERSIONS OF THIS TERM THAT CAN BE APPLIED, BUT I THINK MINE IS THE MOST MEANINGFUL, CROSS SOEVER SOUL WAS A NAME USED BUY SOME PEOPLE WHO WANTED TO HAVE LOTS OF CHEAP DISCO RECORDS AND TRY TO BECOME A DJ WITH THEM, THIS IS NOT THE SAME AS IAN LAVINIE COLIN CURTIS SOUL SAM KEB DARGE AND SO ON WHO ENJOYED THIS TYPE OF SOUND, IT WAS AIMED AT PEOPLE WHO WANTED TO HAVE A RARE 60S NORTHERN SOUL COLLECTION BUT SIMPLY COULD NOT AFFORD 10 RARE NORTHERN RECORDS WHEN THEY COULD USE HALF OF THE MONEY TO BUY 1000 RUN OF THE MIL SOUL RECORDS FROM THE LATE 50S AND 70S , SO IT IS FOR HAT REASON ALONE IT IS CALLED CROSSOVER, ANOTHER POINT TO CONSIDER IS, WOULD YOU CLASS GREG PERRY THE CARSTAIS MONTCLAIR'S WELL YOU GOT IT AS NORTHERN OR CROSSOVER, OF COARSE IT'S NORTHERN,

CROSSOVER IS FOR PEOPLE WHO CAN NOT AFFORD TO BUY RARE RECORDS AS ALWAYS DAVE

[Karlm]

A general thing of many so called crossover soul discs is poor sound quality and mastering. Think Kool Blues, early All Platinum/Turbo/Stang, basically everything on Goldmine's Essential Crossover Soul etc etc. So many discs have that dull sounding recorded in a can sound (which I think is quite charming btw).

To sum it up - poor sound

[Harrogatesoul]

HI ALL ... CROSSOVER WELL THERE ARE SEVERAL VERSIONS OF THIS TERM THAT CAN BE APPLIED, BUT I THINK MINE IS THE MOST MEANINGFUL, CROSS SOEVER SOUL WAS A NAME USED BUY SOME PEOPLE WHO WANTED TO HAVE LOTS OF CHEAP DISCO RECORDS AND TRY TO BECOME A DJ WITH THEM, THIS IS NOT THE SAME AS IAN LAVINIE COLIN CURTIS SOUL SAM KEB DARGE AND SO ON WHO ENJOYED THIS TYPE OF SOUND, IT WAS AIMED AT PEOPLE WHO WANTED TO HAVE A RARE 60S NORTHERN SOUL COLLECTION BUT SIMPLY COULD NOT AFFORD 10 RARE NORTHERN RECORDS WHEN THEY COULD USE HALF OF THE MONEY TO BUY 1000 RUN OF THE MIL SOUL RECORDS FROM THE LATE 50S AND 70S , SO IT IS FOR HAT REASON ALONE IT IS CALLED CROSSOVER, ANOTHER POINT TO CONSIDER IS, WOULD YOU CLASS GREG PERRY THE CARSTAIS MONTCLAIR'S WELL YOU GOT IT AS NORTHERN OR CROSSOVER, OF COARSE IT'S NORTHERN,

CROSSOVER IS FOR PEOPLE WHO CAN NOT AFFORD TO BUY RARE RECORDS AS ALWAYS DAVE

What a ridiculoous statement.! Run of the mill soul records? What would they be then? Crossover is for people who cannot afford to buy rare records? Hmmm think there may be a few who would disagree there.

[Chalky]

I'd disagree too. "most meaningful"? As said a ridiculous statement and totally inaccurate in all respects.

[Guest Rich]

I'll have a pint of what you're on please

[Guest Rich]

I'd disagree too. "most meaningful"? As said a ridiculous statement and totally inaccurate in all respects.

Exactly. On a more serious note Chalky, in that this subject seems to crop up regularly, maybe one of you moderators should have a word with the good people at 'Voices'. They gave a pretty good insight into Crossover years ago (can't remember the issue, but I'm sure it's got Jo Armstead on the front cover?

I suppose it all depends if they've got any back issues left? Great article though - and a great mag in its day.

[Harrogatesoul]

Exactly. On a more serious note Chalky, in that this subject seems to crop up regularly, maybe one of you moderators should have a word with the good people at 'Voices'. They gave a pretty good insight into Crossover years ago (can't remember the issue, but I'm sure it's got Jo Armstead on the front cover?

I suppose it all depends if they've got any back issues left? Great article though - and a great mag in its day.

There was indeed a Crossover special- think Steve Plumb and a couple of others had some input into it along with Rod?? Most back issues are still available.

For crossover to be labelled a poor mans soul etc is just crap and lazy. So the likes of Bobby Wilburn Bill Brandon and god knows what else is music for those who can't afford a northern collection? Good grief.........

[Tommy1]

Exactly. On a more serious note Chalky, in that this subject seems to crop up regularly, maybe one of you moderators should have a word with the good people at 'Voices'. They gave a pretty good insight into Crossover years ago (can't remember the issue, but I'm sure it's got Jo Armstead on the front cover?

I suppose it all depends if they've got any back issues left? Great article though - and a great mag in its day.

Please do

[Pomonkey]

Oh, I just always thought it meant if you found yourself playing records like these you'd "crossed over" to the dark side and now mysteriously owned a handbag...

[Corbett80]

' HI ALL ... CROSSOVER WELL THERE ARE SEVERAL VERSIONS OF THIS TERM THAT CAN BE APPLIED, BUT I THINK MINE IS THE MOST MEANINGFUL, CROSS :hatsoff2:SOEVER SOUL WAS A NAME USED BUY SOME PEOPLE WHO WANTED TO HAVE LOTS OF CHEAP DISCO RECORDS AND TRY TO BECOME A DJ WITH THEM, THIS IS NOT THE SAME AS IAN LAVINIE COLIN CURTIS SOUL SAM KEB DARGE AND SO ON WHO ENJOYED THIS TYPE OF SOUND, IT WAS AIMED AT PEOPLE WHO WANTED TO HAVE A RARE 60S NORTHERN SOUL COLLECTION BUT SIMPLY COULD NOT AFFORD 10 RARE NORTHERN RECORDS WHEN THEY COULD USE HALF OF THE MONEY TO BUY 1000 RUN OF THE MIL SOUL RECORDS FROM THE LATE 50S AND 70S , SO IT IS FOR HAT REASON ALONE IT IS CALLED CROSSOVER, ANOTHER POINT TO CONSIDER IS, WOULD YOU CLASS GREG PERRY THE CARSTAIS MONTCLAIR'S WELL YOU GOT IT AS NORTHERN OR CROSSOVER, OF COARSE IT'S NORTHERN,

CROSSOVER IS FOR PEOPLE WHO CAN NOT AFFORD TO BUY RARE RECORDS AS ALWAYS DAVE''

Wonderful bullshit! Top work sir!

[Dave Moore]

HI ALL ... CROSSOVER WELL THERE ARE SEVERAL VERSIONS OF THIS TERM THAT CAN BE APPLIED, BUT I THINK MINE IS THE MOST MEANINGFUL, CROSS SOEVER SOUL WAS A NAME USED BUY SOME PEOPLE WHO WANTED TO HAVE LOTS OF CHEAP DISCO RECORDS AND TRY TO BECOME A DJ WITH THEM, THIS IS NOT THE SAME AS IAN LAVINIE COLIN CURTIS SOUL SAM KEB DARGE AND SO ON WHO ENJOYED THIS TYPE OF SOUND, IT WAS AIMED AT PEOPLE WHO WANTED TO HAVE A RARE 60S NORTHERN SOUL COLLECTION BUT SIMPLY COULD NOT AFFORD 10 RARE NORTHERN RECORDS WHEN THEY COULD USE HALF OF THE MONEY TO BUY 1000 RUN OF THE MIL SOUL RECORDS FROM THE LATE 50S AND 70S , SO IT IS FOR HAT REASON ALONE IT IS CALLED CROSSOVER, ANOTHER POINT TO CONSIDER IS, WOULD YOU CLASS GREG PERRY THE CARSTAIS MONTCLAIR'S WELL YOU GOT IT AS NORTHERN OR CROSSOVER, OF COARSE IT'S NORTHERN,

CROSSOVER IS FOR PEOPLE WHO CAN NOT AFFORD TO BUY RARE RECORDS AS ALWAYS DAVE

That reeled a few in!

Regards Dave

[Guest Brett F]

The initial post asked about the musical shift in regards soul music around this period, that has been answered, plus links to previous threads explaining peoples perceptions of the term have been added, its a tired subject, and apart from the most ridiculous and ill informed opinion I have ever read on the subject that beggars belief, (but i'm treating that with the contempt it deserves). I know, i have in recent times heard incredible' crossover' played by amongst others Steve Plumb, Steve Guarnori, Paul McKay, Mick and Mo, Chris Anderton, Arthur Fenn, Gary Dennis, the Rippoles brothers, Andy Taylor, Lars Bulnheim, Butch, Mick H..etc, etc, etc..

. The thing is if those who act disparagingly against the sound actually heard these guys play this type of music, they would realise they don't normally play a full set of it but revolve it round a more general 70's/modern playlist. If these fellas' play 2nd rate disco records, then I guess I love 2nd rate disco.....

Edited February 15, 2011 by Brett F

[Corbett80]

'OF COARSE IT'S NORTHERN'

I've often found northern to be very coarse, maybe why crossover has such an appeal i suppose...

[Sean Hampsey]

Lost count of how many times Ive posted and reposted on this subject. Probably the most misunderstood of all the genres - a bit like trying to explain 'Northern' to the bloke at work. You either get it or you don't. But the links above should prove very useful.

Sean

Edited February 15, 2011 by Sean Hampsey

[Guest gordon russell]

crossover is that music that gets played around 4 in the morning which makes you either want to go home or get the razors and ropes out.............dj,s who play whole sets of this are put on at venues by rival promoters to kill the night stone dead.......2 or 3 sets one after the other usually does the trick ..........however the fellas playing this stuff never quite understand that they're killing it :lol: bit like girls and the off side rule peggy b

Edited February 15, 2011 by gordon russell

[Corbett80]

Wonder if we are all singing off the same hymn sheet with our understanding of what crossover is??

[dthedrug]

That reeled a few in!

Regards Dave

HI ALL... THE ONLY THING I GOT WRONG WAS FORGETTING TO RUN SPELL CHECK, TO REITERATE IN THE BEGINNING THE STUFF YOU CALL CROSSOVER, MEANT RECORDS THAT SAY COME OUT ON TAMLA MOTOWN IN FACT HOW MANY OLDER BROTHERS AND SISTERS US TO SAY " I COLLECT RARE SOUL AND MOTOWN" UNDER TAT BANNER MOTOWN IT INCLUDED STAX & ATLANTIC, IN 1970 RECORD LIKE AT THE DISCOTHEQUE WERE RARE SOUL, BUT WE HAD A NEW SET OF LABELS, AND ALTHOUGH LOVED BY WHEEL GOERS, THEY HAD CROSSOVER APPEAL MEANING THE PEOPLE WHO WOULD NOT GET WHAT THE CHUBBY CHECKER MEANT OR STOOD FOR, WERE QUITE HAPPY BUYING THE HONEY CONE RB GREAVES FREDA PAYNE CURTIS MAYFIELD AND FOR ME THE DETROIT EMERALDS FIRST 3 RELEASES CROSSOVER RECORDS , SOME MADE THE CHARTS EVEN , I REMEMBER IN 1971 BUYING THE JONESES PULL MY STRING AND THE 5TH DIMENSION FLASHBACK OF MICK SMITH, GREAT CROSSOVER RECORDS , BUT I STAND BUY MY POINT IN THE MAIN CROSSOVER MEANT IT APPEALED TO MANY PEOPLE WHO DID NOT UNDERSTAND OR COULD AFFORD THE RECORDS THAT WERE BIG ON THE NORTHERN SCENE, I HAVE PROBABLY GOT MORE CROSSOVER IN MY COLLECTION THAN MANY OF YOU, GLENN MILLER IS A CROSSOVER RECORD NOTHING TO DO WITH S STUDIO QUALITY AT ALL, BUT IS JUST A GOOD BENCH MARK IN THE RARE SOUL MARKET PLACE,

ROGER NICHOLS HAD ONE OF THE BEST CROSSOVER COLLECTIONS AROUND AND HE WAS PLAYING SOME OF THE BIG SOUNDS OF TODAY 25 YEARS AGO, AND MOST OF HIS QUALITY RECORDS COME OUT OF SOUL PACKS,

FINALY DONT TRY AND TEACH ME HOW TO SUCK EGGS, I AM NEVER WRONG! AM I, AS A WEST HAM BB YOU WILL ONLY GET VEXED, IT WILL END UP IN TEARS, AS ALL SOUL IS GREAT, BUT RARE NORTHER IS BETTER THAN GREAT AS THEY SAY IN PRESTON 1OFF8, DAVE KIL IS THE SPIRIT OF 69,

[Steveh73]

I always thought crossover was referring to a sort of soul that was relaesed in the late 60s/early 70s, after the classic Holland Dozier Holland Motown sound had run its course and before the Philly sound when on to dominate the 70s. IMHO of course!!

[Chalky]

Wonder if we are all singing off the same hymn sheet with our understanding of what crossover is??

Reckon most of us are, some not even using the same hymn book never mind hymn sheet reading some of the replies.

[Derek Pearson]

Have always meant to chip in with threads like this but I get so easily distracted these days.

Every now and then I think of a record and play it and hear myself saying "Cross Over! now that's what I'm talking about".

A perfect example of a tune to fully outline what crossover sounds like (to me anyway).

Then I forget again.

But I did remember a description of many female crossover tunes that I regularly use in the house - A slightly strained vocal over a fractured beat.

I'm glad I said that.

derek x

[NEV]

I'd disagree too. "most meaningful"? As said a ridiculous statement and totally inaccurate in all respects.

Should'nt really rise to it Chalky.................... ..the clues in his name

Best and most apt description i could use to describe crossover was qoined by Shep from the good ol N.east ,whenever he put up a flyer he wrote...

" THINKING MAN'S SOUL"

[Chalky]

Should'nt really rise to it Chalky.................... ..the clues in his name

you know what it's like with time on your hands Nev. I didn't want to mention the clue

[Guest CapitolSC]

Crossover soul most of which was produced between1967 to 1973 soulfull vocals lush strings heartfelt lyrics and great arrangments

And not dire disco workouts

Al H

[dthedrug]

HI ALL YOU CROSSOVER FANS,,AND GIRLS,I JUST WANT TO REQUEST ABOUT WHAT CROSSOVER HAS BEEN ANSWERED YET?

THERE ARE SEVERAL WAYS OF LOOKING AT IT:- 1, THE VERSION AND INTERPRETATION OF THE MEANING, IN THIS CASE FROM THE BLACK AMERICAN MUSICIAN'S POINT, 2. THE MAINLY WHITE UK SOUL FANS CONCEPT OF THE TERM. 3. A BIT OF BOTH PUT TOGETHER FOR BETTER UNDERSTANDING?

AS I HAVE STATED IN THIS COUNTRY AND IN EUROPE THERE HAS ALWAYS BEEN AN APPRECIATION FOR BLACK AMERICAN MUSIC, IN THE EARLY 60S THE TERM SOUL WAS VERY NEW, AND THOSE PEOPLE WHO WERE THE ORIGINAL BASTIONS OF ETHE SCENE, HAD A MASSIVE STRUGGLE TO GET EXPOSURE (AIR TIME) WAS IMPOSABLE AND EVEN THE PIRATES DID LITTLE TO ADVANCE OUR MUSIC, AS SUCH THE EARLY YEARS OF SOUL MUSIC EXPOSURE WAS ONLY PLAYED IN A HANDFUL OF CLUBS, MOST OF US ARE TO YOUNG TO REMEMBER OR ATTEND THE ORIGINAL SOUL CLUBS, BUT ONE THING THEY DID VERY SUCCESSFULLY, WAS TO ATTRACT PEOPLE WHO WERE KEEN TO LEARN ABOUT THE MUSIC, THIS UNIVERSITY WAS AS FAR AS I AM AWARE CAN BE HONED DOWN TO 1 CLUB THE TWISTED WHEEL, WHERE YOU CAN SEE THE HISTORY OF THE METAMORPHOSIS INTO NORTHER SOUL FROM ITS FIRST YEAR TO IT'S LAST YEAR, ON IT'S CLOSURE, MOST OF THE MUSIC PLAYED WAS NOT MORE THAN 5 YEARS OLD,

AS 71 TURNED INTO 72 YOU HAVE WHAT MOST PEOPLE CONSIDER AS THE TOP ALL-NIGHT EVER, TAKE A GLANCE AT THE MUSIC THAT WAS PLAYED AT THE TORCH A LOT OF IT WAS LESS THAN 2 YEARS OLD, IT IS AROUND ABOUT THIS TIME THAT DAVE GODINS COMMENTS DESCRIBING THE MUSIC POLICY IN THE NORTH WEST AND MIDLANDS AS NORTHER SOUL, NOT AS CROSSOVER SOUL? AS WE PROGRESS IN TO THE MID 70S WE HEAR A NEW TERMINOLOGY TO TRY AND CATEGORIES NORTHERN SOUL, IN PARTICULAR THESE 3 STOMPERS, 100MPH, & MECCA SOUND (IS THIS THE START OF YOUR HYMNS SHEET?) IF SO YOU DON'T MAKE IT CLEAR, BUT TO MANY AT THE TIME THERE WAS LITTLE SUPPORT FOR THE MECCA SOUND, AGAIN I HAVE TO STAT THAT WHAT WAS PLAYED AT BLACKPOOL WAS SO SIMILAR TO WHAT WAS PLAYED IN THE SOUTH EAST & LONDON, I CAN HERE IT NOW BEING PLAYED AT THE NEW PENNY DISCO IN WATFORD OR THE GOLDMINE CANVY ISLAND. THE MUSIC WAS CALLED PPPARTY MUSIC THEIR WERE SOME DEEP FUNK GIGS AS THERE WERE REGGAE NIGHTS, BUT THESE PLACES WERE NOT FREQUENTED BUY MANY WHITE PEOPLE NOW THE SKINHEAD THING HAD BEEN GONE OVER 4 YEARS,

BUT WIGAN ALSO LIKE THE TORCH PLAYED MUSIC TO KEEP YOU DANCING, AGAIN SOME OF THE NORTHERN SOUL PLAYED MAY SOUND LIKE POP MUSIC OR INDEED RE BRANDED AS CROSSOVER, BUT IT WAS CALLED NORTHER SOUL AND THATS A FACT,

HOWEVER WIGAN USED ANOTHER ADJECTIVE TO DESCRIBE SOME SOU. AND THE TERM OLDIES COME TO BE SO FASHIONABLE. THAT THE FRIDAY ALL-NIGHTERS WERE PACKED OUT BUT THE SATURDAY NIGHTS WERE POOR,,

IN THE 80S WIGAN CLOSED , AND THE SCENE WAS BEING RUN BY THE HARD CORE RECORED COLLECTORS, AND ANOTHER TERMINOLOGY STARTED TO BECOME POPULAR, EVEN THOUGH IT HAD BEEN USED AT WIGAN IT TOOK ON A SLIGHTLY NEW MEANING, NEWIES, AND AS SUCH SOME BRILLIANT SOUL WAS UNCOVERD AND A LOT OF NORTHER CLASSICS WERE SOLD AT A FRACTION OF THE REAL PRICE, BUT AGAIN THE WORD CROSSOVER WAS NOT IN COMMON USE, IT STILL EQUALLY APPLIED TO RECORDS LIKE THE WIGANS OVATION OR TO ESTER PHILIP'S OR THE TVARES, HOWEVER THE WORD CROSSOVER DID BE COME A WORD TO DESCRIBE RECORDS PLAYED FIRST AT THE MECCA JAMES FOUNTAIN AND THE CARSTAIRS BEING 2 RECORDS THAT CROSSED OVER FROM ONE TYPE OF DISCO INTO THE NORTHERN SOUL SCENE/

OVER THE LAST 2 NIGHTS I HAVE GIVEN MY IDEA OF WHAT THE ONLY WAY I CAN DESCRIBE THE TRUE MEANING OF THE WORD, IN THE LAST 24 HOURS I HAVE PLAED A FEW RECORDS THAT I WILL ALWAYS CLASS AS NORTHERN SOUL BUT SOME OF YOU MAY CLASS AS CROSSOVER, ;:- HERE ARE JUST A FEW ALL GREAT SOUL MOST ARE CHEAP IN COMPARISON TO RARE NORTHER, BUT I STILL CLASS AS NORTHER OR RARE SOUL. NOT CROSSOVER,

THE CHARTS-I HAE BEEN THINKING, DENNIS EDWARDS - I THOUGHT I COULD HANDLE IT. THE MOMENTS- 504, GREG PERRY - IT TAKES HEART. RICHARD PARKER - YOUR ALL I NEED, LARRY SAUNDERS - ON THE REAL SIDR, JOSHIE JO - I GOT THE VIBES, CROSSFIRE - TAKE ME BACK, BETTER RUBY WINTERS, ANN SEXTON - YOU'VE BEEN GONE TO LONG, FLAMINGOS - THINK ABOUT ME, AL FOSTER - NIGHT OF THE WOLF,. SPINNERS I'LL BE AROUND, ARTHER PRYSOCK - ALL I NEED IS YOU TONIGHT, AND WE COULD OF COURSE GO ON AND ON,

THE BACK AMERICAN MUSICIAN WOULD CLASS IT AS A MORE SANITIZED STYLE OF MUSIC SET TO A SLOWER BEAT ANY WHERE FROM LATIN TO DISCO IT IS THAT SIMPLE, IT'S AN ARRANGEMENT, AS SOMEONE WHO SOME YOU HAVE CLASSED MY STATEMENTS AS CRAP BUT FAILED TO CONTRIBUTE ANY CONSTRUCTIVE POINTS YOU ILL THINK WHEN I CALL YOU A LOAD OF MERCHANTS I AM NOT BEING COMPLEMENTARY, AND IF YOU THINK THAT THERE IS A HEALTHY CROSSOVER SCENE, GO THERE, STAY THERE AND DON'T COME BACK, AS IT IS A JOHNNY COME LATELY PLACE AND YOUR REMARKS ARE NOT REMOTELY SOULFUL. BUT YOU ALREADY NO THAT, AS I DON'T WANT YOU TO GET EMOTIONAL DO I, AND IF YOU WANT TO LISTEN TO A DECENT RECORD TRY AND GET A COPY OF THE ESCORTS - LOOK OVER YOUR SHOULDER, AND THEN MAKE YOUR POINT, I HAVE BROKE MY RULES ABOUT NOT FIGHTING WITH THE GIRLS TONIGHT DAVE KIL

[NEV]

HI ALL YOU CROSSOVER FANS,,AND GIRLS,I JUST WANT TO REQUEST ABOUT WHAT CROSSOVER HAS BEEN ANSWERED YET?

THERE ARE SEVERAL WAYS OF LOOKING AT IT:- 1, THE VERSION AND INTERPRETATION OF THE MEANING, IN THIS CASE FROM THE BLACK AMERICAN MUSICIAN'S POINT, 2. THE MAINLY WHITE UK SOUL FANS CONCEPT OF THE TERM. 3. A BIT OF BOTH PUT TOGETHER FOR BETTER UNDERSTANDING?

AS I HAVE STATED IN THIS COUNTRY AND IN EUROPE THERE HAS ALWAYS BEEN AN APPRECIATION FOR BLACK AMERICAN MUSIC, IN THE EARLY 60S THE TERM SOUL WAS VERY NEW, AND THOSE PEOPLE WHO WERE THE ORIGINAL BASTIONS OF ETHE SCENE, HAD A MASSIVE STRUGGLE TO GET EXPOSURE (AIR TIME) WAS IMPOSABLE AND EVEN THE PIRATES DID LITTLE TO ADVANCE OUR MUSIC, AS SUCH THE EARLY YEARS OF SOUL MUSIC EXPOSURE WAS ONLY PLAYED IN A HANDFUL OF CLUBS, MOST OF US ARE TO YOUNG TO REMEMBER OR ATTEND THE ORIGINAL SOUL CLUBS, BUT ONE THING THEY DID VERY SUCCESSFULLY, WAS TO ATTRACT PEOPLE WHO WERE KEEN TO LEARN ABOUT THE MUSIC, THIS UNIVERSITY WAS AS FAR AS I AM AWARE CAN BE HONED DOWN TO 1 CLUB THE TWISTED WHEEL, WHERE YOU CAN SEE THE HISTORY OF THE METAMORPHOSIS INTO NORTHER SOUL FROM ITS FIRST YEAR TO IT'S LAST YEAR, ON IT'S CLOSURE, MOST OF THE MUSIC PLAYED WAS NOT MORE THAN 5 YEARS OLD,

AS 71 TURNED INTO 72 YOU HAVE WHAT MOST PEOPLE CONSIDER AS THE TOP ALL-NIGHT EVER, TAKE A GLANCE AT THE MUSIC THAT WAS PLAYED AT THE TORCH A LOT OF IT WAS LESS THAN 2 YEARS OLD, IT IS AROUND ABOUT THIS TIME THAT DAVE GODINS COMMENTS DESCRIBING THE MUSIC POLICY IN THE NORTH WEST AND MIDLANDS AS NORTHER SOUL, NOT AS CROSSOVER SOUL? AS WE PROGRESS IN TO THE MID 70S WE HEAR A NEW TERMINOLOGY TO TRY AND CATEGORIES NORTHERN SOUL, IN PARTICULAR THESE 3 STOMPERS, 100MPH, & MECCA SOUND (IS THIS THE START OF YOUR HYMNS SHEET?) IF SO YOU DON'T MAKE IT CLEAR, BUT TO MANY AT THE TIME THERE WAS LITTLE SUPPORT FOR THE MECCA SOUND, AGAIN I HAVE TO STAT THAT WHAT WAS PLAYED AT BLACKPOOL WAS SO SIMILAR TO WHAT WAS PLAYED IN THE SOUTH EAST & LONDON, I CAN HERE IT NOW BEING PLAYED AT THE NEW PENNY DISCO IN WATFORD OR THE GOLDMINE CANVY ISLAND. THE MUSIC WAS CALLED PPPARTY MUSIC THEIR WERE SOME DEEP FUNK GIGS AS THERE WERE REGGAE NIGHTS, BUT THESE PLACES WERE NOT FREQUENTED BUY MANY WHITE PEOPLE NOW THE SKINHEAD THING HAD BEEN GONE OVER 4 YEARS,

BUT WIGAN ALSO LIKE THE TORCH PLAYED MUSIC TO KEEP YOU DANCING, AGAIN SOME OF THE NORTHERN SOUL PLAYED MAY SOUND LIKE POP MUSIC OR INDEED RE BRANDED AS CROSSOVER, BUT IT WAS CALLED NORTHER SOUL AND THATS A FACT,

HOWEVER WIGAN USED ANOTHER ADJECTIVE TO DESCRIBE SOME SOU. AND THE TERM OLDIES COME TO BE SO FASHIONABLE. THAT THE FRIDAY ALL-NIGHTERS WERE PACKED OUT BUT THE SATURDAY NIGHTS WERE POOR,,

IN THE 80S WIGAN CLOSED , AND THE SCENE WAS BEING RUN BY THE HARD CORE RECORED COLLECTORS, AND ANOTHER TERMINOLOGY STARTED TO BECOME POPULAR, EVEN THOUGH IT HAD BEEN USED AT WIGAN IT TOOK ON A SLIGHTLY NEW MEANING, NEWIES, AND AS SUCH SOME BRILLIANT SOUL WAS UNCOVERD AND A LOT OF NORTHER CLASSICS WERE SOLD AT A FRACTION OF THE REAL PRICE, BUT AGAIN THE WORD CROSSOVER WAS NOT IN COMMON USE, IT STILL EQUALLY APPLIED TO RECORDS LIKE THE WIGANS OVATION OR TO ESTER PHILIP'S OR THE TVARES, HOWEVER THE WORD CROSSOVER DID BE COME A WORD TO DESCRIBE RECORDS PLAYED FIRST AT THE MECCA JAMES FOUNTAIN AND THE CARSTAIRS BEING 2 RECORDS THAT CROSSED OVER FROM ONE TYPE OF DISCO INTO THE NORTHERN SOUL SCENE/

OVER THE LAST 2 NIGHTS I HAVE GIVEN MY IDEA OF WHAT THE ONLY WAY I CAN DESCRIBE THE TRUE MEANING OF THE WORD, IN THE LAST 24 HOURS I HAVE PLAED A FEW RECORDS THAT I WILL ALWAYS CLASS AS NORTHERN SOUL BUT SOME OF YOU MAY CLASS AS CROSSOVER, ;:- HERE ARE JUST A FEW ALL GREAT SOUL MOST ARE CHEAP IN COMPARISON TO RARE NORTHER, BUT I STILL CLASS AS NORTHER OR RARE SOUL. NOT CROSSOVER,

THE CHARTS-I HAE BEEN THINKING, DENNIS EDWARDS - I THOUGHT I COULD HANDLE IT. THE MOMENTS- 504, GREG PERRY - IT TAKES HEART. RICHARD PARKER - YOUR ALL I NEED, LARRY SAUNDERS - ON THE REAL SIDR, JOSHIE JO - I GOT THE VIBES, CROSSFIRE - TAKE ME BACK, BETTER RUBY WINTERS, ANN SEXTON - YOU'VE BEEN GONE TO LONG, FLAMINGOS - THINK ABOUT ME, AL FOSTER - NIGHT OF THE WOLF,. SPINNERS I'LL BE AROUND, ARTHER PRYSOCK - ALL I NEED IS YOU TONIGHT, AND WE COULD OF COURSE GO ON AND ON,

THE BACK AMERICAN MUSICIAN WOULD CLASS IT AS A MORE SANITIZED STYLE OF MUSIC SET TO A SLOWER BEAT ANY WHERE FROM LATIN TO DISCO IT IS THAT SIMPLE, IT'S AN ARRANGEMENT, AS SOMEONE WHO SOME YOU HAVE CLASSED MY STATEMENTS AS CRAP BUT FAILED TO CONTRIBUTE ANY CONSTRUCTIVE POINTS YOU ILL THINK WHEN I CALL YOU A LOAD OF MERCHANTS I AM NOT BEING COMPLEMENTARY, AND IF YOU THINK THAT THERE IS A HEALTHY CROSSOVER SCENE, GO THERE, STAY THERE AND DON'T COME BACK, AS IT IS A JOHNNY COME LATELY PLACE AND YOUR REMARKS ARE NOT REMOTELY SOULFUL. BUT YOU ALREADY NO THAT, AS I DON'T WANT YOU TO GET EMOTIONAL DO I, AND IF YOU WANT TO LISTEN TO A DECENT RECORD TRY AND GET A COPY OF THE ESCORTS - LOOK OVER YOUR SHOULDER, AND THEN MAKE YOUR POINT, I HAVE BROKE MY RULES ABOUT NOT FIGHTING WITH THE GIRLS TONIGHT DAVE KIL

WHAT'S UP DAVE.......CAN'T YOU GET TO SLEEP.LOL

[Guest Brett F]

This thread from 5 years ago, its the one that sort of sums up all the definitions for me......( 5 years ago !!!...we were still talking about this then !!!)

ps..get Solar radio on now 10.00 - 12.00, Steve Guarnori, one of the best collectors and he might even play some crossover...........

Edited February 20, 2011 by Brett F

[Guest]

Crossover is a 60's record that sounds a bit 70's.  Or a 70's record that sounds a bit 60's

Edited February 20, 2011 by Guest

[manus]

This thread from 5 years ago, its the one that sort of sums up all the definitions for me......( 5 years ago !!!...we were still talking about this then !!!)

ps..get Solar radio on now 10.00 - 12.00, Steve Guaroni on, one of the best collectors and he might even play some crossover...........

He's just played a fantastic tune by Bernard Drake - new one to me.

[Wrongcrowd]

crossover is that music that gets played around 4 in the morning which makes you either want to go home or get the razors and ropes out.............dj,s who play whole sets of this are put on at venues by rival promoters to kill the night stone dead.......2 or 3 sets one after the other usually does the trick ..........however the fellas playing this stuff never quite understand that they're killing it bit like girls and the off side rule peggy b

Good to know you can always be relied upon to give a totally unbiased and balanced view.....

[Wrongcrowd]

HI ALL ... CROSSOVER WELL THERE ARE SEVERAL VERSIONS OF THIS TERM THAT CAN BE APPLIED, BUT I THINK MINE IS THE MOST MEANINGFUL, CROSS SOEVER SOUL WAS A NAME USED BUY SOME PEOPLE WHO WANTED TO HAVE LOTS OF CHEAP DISCO RECORDS AND TRY TO BECOME A DJ WITH THEM, THIS IS NOT THE SAME AS IAN LAVINIE COLIN CURTIS SOUL SAM KEB DARGE AND SO ON WHO ENJOYED THIS TYPE OF SOUND, IT WAS AIMED AT PEOPLE WHO WANTED TO HAVE A RARE 60S NORTHERN SOUL COLLECTION BUT SIMPLY COULD NOT AFFORD 10 RARE NORTHERN RECORDS WHEN THEY COULD USE HALF OF THE MONEY TO BUY 1000 RUN OF THE MIL SOUL RECORDS FROM THE LATE 50S AND 70S , SO IT IS FOR HAT REASON ALONE IT IS CALLED CROSSOVER, ANOTHER POINT TO CONSIDER IS, WOULD YOU CLASS GREG PERRY THE CARSTAIS MONTCLAIR'S WELL YOU GOT IT AS NORTHERN OR CROSSOVER, OF COARSE IT'S NORTHERN,

CROSSOVER IS FOR PEOPLE WHO CAN NOT AFFORD TO BUY RARE RECORDS AS ALWAYS DAVE

You really are clueless.

Since when did rarity define a musice style or genre ?

[Ritchieandrew]

Well I see we have all the usual self opinionated, miss informed "Crossover Haters" out in force again, venting their anger on anybody that dares to like anything different to them.

Crossover is a very poor descriptive term for Soul music, that was produced in the late sixties, that then "crossed over" to the earlier seventies and beyond, as the sound moved away from the 4 X 4 dance beat to a more sophisticated beat, helped by the better technologies regarding production techniques. I think Brett has put the case into perspective in an earlier thread, regarding some of the top Northern DJ's also having many "Crossover' type records in their boxes, perhaps they've realised its not 1966 anymore !

Regards To ALL soul fans Ricardo.