Sean Hampsey Posted January 27, 2011 Share Posted January 27, 2011 Don't know if anyone else has flagged this info on here, but there are bunch of new 45's scheduled any time now from Hit & Run. These include : TOMMY & THE DERBY'S - HR 1505 Don't Play The Role / Handy Andy One of the best 'finds' of the last few years - a real quality Northern dancer from everybody's favourite Tommy Tate. Recorded in Jackson Mississippi 1966 featuring Dorothy Moore on backing vocals, this is one being heard across the country at discerning dance venues. Very strong boogaloo dancer flip completes what is a great 45. Originally played by Butch covered up as 'Little Jerry Williams', only a handful of copies of the ultra-rare original Swing release are known. MARJORIE INGRAM - HR 1506 Another Woman Involved / Love Vibrations Recorded at Muscle Shoals Sound in 1977, we have here a coupling of strong George Jackson songs and productions. Great vocals from this Memphis belle on 2 very nice dancefloor winners. Both sides previously unreleased - and now available on vinyl 45 for the very first time. Buy : online NOW at : www.garryjcape.com/hitandrun.htm - sound clips are available for all 4 tracks. And while you're on the site, pleeeease take a listen at the upcoming Ernie Shelby and Erma Shaw 45's - Just STUNNING Real Soul Music! www.garryjcape.com/hitandrun.htm Well done Garry / Hit & Run. All great stuff! Sean Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Guest topcatnumpty1 Posted January 27, 2011 Share Posted January 27, 2011 Well mentioned Mr.H----Tommy AND tHE d,s been one of the faves in this house for a while-----how long do C.D.S take to post to Bradford?? T.C. Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Sean Hampsey Posted January 27, 2011 Author Share Posted January 27, 2011 Well mentioned Mr.H----Tommy AND tHE d,s been one of the faves in this house for a while-----how long do C.D.S take to post to Bradford?? T.C. It aint the postin' Tony, its the makin' I know how fussy you are! You're on my list Brotherman. You're on my list! Sean Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Arthur Fenn Posted January 27, 2011 Share Posted January 27, 2011 Don't know if anyone else has flagged this info on here, but there are bunch of new 45's scheduled any time now from Hit & Run. These include : TOMMY & THE DERBY'S - HR 1505 Don't Play The Role / Handy Andy One of the best 'finds' of the last few years - a real quality Northern dancer from everybody's favourite Tommy Tate. Recorded in Jackson Mississippi 1966 featuring Dorothy Moore on backing vocals, this is one being heard across the country at discerning dance venues. Been a little monster at Boomerang for a year or 2 now , nice 1 Gary ( check out the great truth inc also ) Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Soul Discovery Posted January 27, 2011 Share Posted January 27, 2011 Don't know if anyone else has flagged this info on here, but there are bunch of new 45's scheduled any time now from Hit & Run. These include : TOMMY & THE DERBY'S - HR 1505 Don't Play The Role / Handy Andy One of the best 'finds' of the last few years - a real quality Northern dancer from everybody's favourite Tommy Tate. Recorded in Jackson Mississippi 1966 featuring Dorothy Moore on backing vocals, this is one being heard across the country at discerning dance venues. Very strong boogaloo dancer flip completes what is a great 45. Originally played by Butch covered up as 'Little Jerry Williams', only a handful of copies of the ultra-rare original Swing release are known. MARJORIE INGRAM - HR 1506 Another Woman Involved / Love Vibrations Recorded at Muscle Shoals Sound in 1977, we have here a coupling of strong George Jackson songs and productions. Great vocals from this Memphis belle on 2 very nice dancefloor winners. Both sides previously unreleased - and now available on vinyl 45 for the very first time. Buy : online NOW at : www.garryjcape.com/hitandrun.htm - sound clips are available for all 4 tracks. And while you're on the site, pleeeease take a listen at the upcoming Ernie Shelby and Erma Shaw 45's - Just STUNNING Real Soul Music! www.garryjcape.com/hitandrun.htm Well done Garry / Hit & Run. All great stuff! Sean Hi Sean, Good write up by Garry Gape @ https://www.souldiscovery.co.uk/contact-us Cheer Mick Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Sean Hampsey Posted January 27, 2011 Author Share Posted January 27, 2011 Hi Sean, Good write up by Garry Gape @ https://www.souldisco...o.uk/contact-us Cheer Mick Great stuff Mick. Excellent informative Website mate... and on the ball as ever! Sean Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Dewsburyborn Posted February 5, 2011 Share Posted February 5, 2011 (edited) Just had news that Tommy & The Derby's is ready to ship from Detroit, so hopefully here by the end of next week. Thanks to those who pre-ordered, I'll get them out to you as soon as possible. New orders now being accepted. Thanks Edited February 5, 2011 by dewsburyborn Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Dewsburyborn Posted February 5, 2011 Share Posted February 5, 2011 Marjorie Ingram HR 45 also in the same shipment, hopefully here by the end of next week. Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Scotters Posted February 5, 2011 Share Posted February 5, 2011 Thanks Sean for your original post on these superb records. I wasn't aware of Hit & Run until today, but pleased I am now and have just placed an order for five with interest to see what else comes out in the future! Cheers. Steve Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Dewsburyborn Posted February 5, 2011 Share Posted February 5, 2011 Hi Steve Yep, confirmed received your order OK - thanks. Seems like a lot of folks are unaware of Hit and Run - and Soulscape the CD label too. Stay tuned, cos there's some interesting stuff coming up through the year - and a pretty nifty back catalogue too. Regards Garry Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Scotters Posted February 6, 2011 Share Posted February 6, 2011 Thanks v much Garry...I appreciate your confirmation and look forward to receiving those + keeping an eye out for others in the future. Now got your website saved to my growing list! All the best, Steve Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Bitchdj Posted February 6, 2011 Share Posted February 6, 2011 (edited) Do the actual artists / artistes get a percentage / royalties from the sales of these "new releases" ? I personally think the issuing of these current 45's do the scene absolutely no favours whatsoever. It's taken Butch years to "break" this record and now its readily available for £10. I feel sorry for the dj's who have handed over their £ thousands for the "Tommy & The Derbys" record only to find it now available on general release. I suppose the ill-health of Tommy Tate will be rolled out as a reason for the killing off of this "pretty recent Northern great" ! ! This practice was frowned on in the 70's and 80's and should be frowned on today. That's my personal opinion and i await the slating i'm probably going to get on here. Punters wonder why dj's cover their exclusive sounds up . . . . i rest my case. p.s. if i'm covering "old arguements" within this thread , and have mis-interpreted the reasons for the release of the aforementioned "45" , then i apologise for not delving "in full" , to the bottom of this type of re-issue. . . Edited February 6, 2011 by bitchdj Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Guest Paul Posted February 6, 2011 Share Posted February 6, 2011 Do the actual artists / artistes get a percentage / royalties from the sales of these "new releases" ? I personally think the issuing of these current 45's do the scene absolutely no favours whatsoever. It's taken Butch years to "break" this record and now its readily available for £10. I feel sorry for the dj's who have handed over their £ thousands for the "Tommy & The Derbys" record only to find it now available on general release. I suppose the ill-health of Tommy Tate will be rolled out as a reason for the killing off of this "pretty recent Northern great" ! ! This practice was frowned on in the 70's and 80's and should be frowned on today. That's my personal opinion and i await the slating i'm probably going to get on here. Punters wonder why dj's cover their exclusive sounds up . . . . i rest my case. p.s. if i'm covering "old arguements" within this thread , and have mis-interpreted the reasons for the release of the aforementioned "45" , then i apologise for not delving "in full" , to the bottom of this type of re-issue. . . Hello, My attitude has always been that music shouldn't be the exclusive plaything of the lucky or the rich. It should be for everyone, as should all the arts and pleasures in life. So if a rare record can be made available (by legitimate means) then it has to be a good thing, not just for music lovers but also (at least in theory) for artists, producers, writers, publishers, record companies etc. It's also a good business opportunity for retailers - and times are very hard in that sector. As for a DJ who might have paid thousands for an original copy, he or she can still keep that expensive copy and in most cases I think its value will be maintained. But I'm not really bothered if a DJ has lost an "exclusive" and there are many other rare records they can focus on. And rather than "killing off" the interest in this track, I think the reissue will generate wider interest. In this particular case, the rights are owned by the producer and he lost money on the record when it was originally issued so he deserves an opportunity to make a few quid from it now. By the way, I have nothing against collectors who focus on rare and expensive records, and it's a fascinating thing, but it should never get in the way of making music available to the masses - for the benefit of soul fans and the benefit of those who made or financed the music. Best wishes, Paul Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Guest Paul Posted February 6, 2011 Share Posted February 6, 2011 ...Just to clarify that when I say music "should be for everyone" I don't mean free of charge (of course) but at realistic and affordable prices. Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Guest Paul Posted February 6, 2011 Share Posted February 6, 2011 ...Do the actual artists / artistes get a percentage / royalties from the sales of these "new releases" ?. . . Sorry, I just realised I didn't address the main part of your question... In most cases the artists don't actually own any rights and often aren't legally due to anything from the owners but I know of some cases where record companies have voluntarily paid additional amounts to artists as a goodwill gesture. For example, I did that with Rozetta Johnson for her Shotgun single because I knew she wouldn't have benefited otherwise. And I hope Garry Cape won't mind me saying that he has done the same thing with several artists (including Rozetta, for example, when he released her Soulscape album). It's up to each company to make moral judgements about additional goodwill payments but the obligation is to pay the owners - and sadly the owners aren't always willing (or obliged) to pay anything to the artists. Paul Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Bitchdj Posted February 6, 2011 Share Posted February 6, 2011 (edited) Hello Paul , I think you're missing my point , with reference to your remarks regarding the "Tommy & The Derbys" single ( as that's the record i specifically mentioned as an example ) being regarded as "an exclusive plaything for the lucky and the rich" . . "luck" , just doesn't come into it , do you simply not realise the "hard work" ( not in the physical expenditure of energy terms ) and time involved in tracking these 45's down and the effort it takes dj's to "break" these new finds to the masses ? But "you're not bothered if a dj has lost an exclusive" , so long as you and your associates can make a fast buck out of someone elses spadework. You say that there are many other rare records they can focus on , but what's the point in that , when you or someone like you is waiting to do exactly the same again ? i.e. when they become "in demand" , is it then time for another "good business opportunity" ?. By the same cavalier attitude as yours , i'm not bothered if the retail trade is having a tough time , i'm a soul collector and part-time dj who collects "original vinyl only" , a pre requisite at all real deal venues the world over. The rich buy their top 500 originals as "trophies" , the true soul collector delves that bit deeper. For the record ( no pun intended ) i'm not not rich and am a single mother of two ! Edited February 6, 2011 by bitchdj Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Phild Posted February 6, 2011 Share Posted February 6, 2011 Surely the legitimate release of such sounds is better than, and in no way the same as, the bootlegging which was so rife in the 70's and still to an extent goes on today? Phil Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Guest Bearsy Posted February 6, 2011 Share Posted February 6, 2011 Hello Paul , I think you're missing my point , with reference to your remarks regarding the "Tommy & The Derbys" single ( as that's the record i specifically mentioned as an example ) being regarded as "an exclusive plaything for the lucky and the rich" . . "luck" , just doesn't come into it , do you simply not realise the "hard work" ( not in the physical expenditure of energy terms ) and time involved in tracking these 45's down and the effort it takes dj's to "break" these new finds to the masses ? But "you're not bothered if a dj has lost an exclusive" , so long as you and your associates can make a fast buck out of someone elses spadework. You say that there are many other rare records they can focus on , but what's the point in that , when you or someone like you is waiting to do exactly the same again ? i.e. when they become "in demand" , is it then time for another "good business opportunity" ?. By the same cavalier attitude as yours , i'm not bothered if the retail trade is having a tough time , i'm a soul collector and part-time dj who collects "original vinyl only" , a pre requisite at all real deal venues the world over. The rich buy their top 500 originals as "trophies" , the true soul collector delves that bit deeper. For the record ( no pun intended ) i'm not not rich and am a single mother of two ! Well i am in total agreement with you Cookie would they have released this if it had a thousand copies out there already like say Ruby Andrews JLY its rare with only a handful of copies out there so demand will be good so cashing in time for the those that want to share this music and not keep it exclusve ker ching ££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££ Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Guest Paul Posted February 6, 2011 Share Posted February 6, 2011 Hello Paul , I think you're missing my point , with reference to your remarks regarding the "Tommy & The Derbys" single ( as that's the record i specifically mentioned as an example ) being regarded as "an exclusive plaything for the lucky and the rich" . . "luck" , just doesn't come into it , do you simply not realise the "hard work" ( not in the physical expenditure of energy terms ) and time involved in tracking these 45's down and the effort it takes dj's to "break" these new finds to the masses ? But "you're not bothered if a dj has lost an exclusive" , so long as you and your associates can make a fast buck out of someone elses spadework. You say that there are many other rare records they can focus on , but what's the point in that , when you or someone like you is waiting to do exactly the same again , when they become "in demand" ?. By the same cavalier attitude as yours , i'm not bothered if the retail trade is having a tough time , i'm a soul collector and part-time dj who collects "original vinyl only" , a pre requisite at all real deal venues the world over. The rich buy their top 500 originals as "trophies" , the true soul collector delves that bit deeper. For the record ( no pun intended ) i'm not not rich and am a single mother of two ! Hello, I'm certainly not missing your point, I carefully and respectfully offered my own views. I didn't expect you to agree with them but I hoped you would consider them and understand them. And I can assure you that I'm not making a "fast buck" on this particular record, I have no financial involvement in this song or master. I don't think anyone makes "fast bucks" on these kind of records because in many cases they don't sell enough to recover costs. I just gave you my personal opinions, I'm a bit of a socialist and music is my passion (as well as my living) so I like it to be enjoyed by the masses. And I don't see how that harms anyone who bought an original copy (which still has a value). This reissue will appeal to Tommy Tate fans who (like me) can afford to pay £9.99 for a 45 - and that's a good thing in my opinion. Paul Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Dewsburyborn Posted February 6, 2011 Share Posted February 6, 2011 Oh dear boys and girls - I've just come on to this and do feel like I'm missing out on all the fun. Problem for today is that I've got better things to do with my Sunday - but I promise to be back and join in. One thing I'm unsure of Bitch - have you a particular grievance with me ? my label ? this particular record ? other big ticket items being released in general ? it's unclear ( to me, at any rate, from your postings) Have fun whilst I'm away. Garry Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Chalky Posted February 6, 2011 Share Posted February 6, 2011 I just gave you my personal opinions, I'm a bit of a socialist and music is my passion (as well as my living) so I like it to be enjoyed by the masses. And I don't see how that harms anyone who bought an original copy (which still has a value). The thing it harms is the rare soul all-nighter scene, something you probably don't understand just like some others who post on here who are so out of touch with the all-nighter scene. This record still hasn't quite made it yet even though it has been around a long time, there is still plenty of life left in it for the rare soul scene, or there was until it was re-issued. It isn't a discovery of the last few years as said, Butch has been playing it for around 15 years or so, Carl Fortnum had it long time as well but it never really made it big time until Andy Dyson got one and pushed it every where he DJ'ed. It still hasn't quite achieved 'monster' status yet. It is no wonder rare soul Dj's like Butch are giving up with the scene and others simply not bothered any more, all their hard work is undone in an instant. It would have been nice to see the all-nighter scene get a few more years out of this record before it was re-issued, it's not like Tommy is going to benefit from the sales? Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Guest the fifer Posted February 6, 2011 Share Posted February 6, 2011 Oh dear boys and girls - I've just come on to this and do feel like I'm missing out on all the fun. Problem for today is that I've got better things to do with my Sunday - but I promise to be back and join in. One thing I'm unsure of Bitch - have you a particular grievance with me ? my label ? this particular record ? other big ticket items being released in general ? it's unclear ( to me, at any rate, from your postings) Have fun whilst I'm away. Garry Garry, Thanks for releasing this 45 great tune that deserves attention outwith the myopic Northern Soul scene. As for the sanctimonious bullsh*tters - get a life! Derek Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
TOAD Posted February 6, 2011 Share Posted February 6, 2011 a few words from me.....ive seen this BOOTED ? by someone else recently on a look a like @£10 so a legal issue is most welcome. Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Guest Paul Posted February 6, 2011 Share Posted February 6, 2011 The thing it harms is the all-nighter scene, something you probably don't understand just like some others who post on here who are so out of touch with the all-nighter scene. This record still hasn't quite made it yet even though it has been around a long time, there is still plenty of life left in it for the rare soul scene, or there was until it was re-issued. It isn't a discovery of the last few years as said, Butch has been playing it for around 15 years or so, Carl Fortnum had it long time as well but it never really made it big time until Andy Dyson got one and pushed it every where he DJ'ed. It still hasn't quite achieved 'monster' status yet. It is no wonder rare soul Dj's like Butch are giving up with the scene and others simply not bothered any more, all their hard work is undone in an instant. It would have been nice to see the all-nighter scene get a few more years out of this record before it was re-issued, it's not like Tommy is going to benefit from the sales? Hello Chalky, Interesting point but the rare soul all-nighter scene is fairly small and it isn't so important to everyone. And in my opinion it really can't determine what records can and cannot be issued or reissued. As you said, this track has already been played on that scene for 15 years or so. So as interesting as the scene is, I personally see it as just a part of a bigger music world and I don't see that any particular scene has a right to exclusivity. The music wasn't made by or for any particular scene. And it's probably true that if this record was only worth £10 it wouldn't often be played on the scene. I admit that I am out of touch (my own choice) with the rare soul all-nighter scene but there's nothing wrong with that, I've been a passionate soul fan all my life and I don't feel I need to have the approval of any particular faction. I was once part of the all-nighter scene (starting about 38 years ago) and I find it fascinating but there's a bigger world. I don't know Garry's reasons for this particular reissue at this particular time but he has previously issued two Tommy Tate albums containing vintage material (as have other labels) and I know Tommy did benefit from that and he was thrilled with the attention. I don't know if Tommy will benefit financially from this particular reissue (it's none of my business) but I wouldn't be surprised if he does. As for the "hard work" of DJs etc, I can appreciate that point but what's far more important to me is the hard work of those who made the music, not to forget the fact that many Tommy Tate fans will get the chance to hear this track and buy it at an affordable price. The real problem is that nobody has the right to make rules about these things. Does a record company need to get approval from a rare soul committee before it can reissue a record? Who will give the approval and who will they have been elected by? The truth is that buying a rare record doesn't give anyone any rights. An additional point worth considering is that, after 15 years of exposure on the scene, this record could have been a target for bootleggers. Best wishes, Paul Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Chalky Posted February 6, 2011 Share Posted February 6, 2011 Hi Paul, Regardless of how big or small the all-nighter scene is, it is the all-nighter scene and the rare soul DJ's hard work in finding records that bring these records to a wider audience. Even though the record has been about years it has never really been pushed as much as it probably should have until Andy got a copy. Like I said it still hasn't fully achieved it's potential yet and there was still plenty of life left in this record. It's been hard work for the DJ's lucky enough to have a copy to break this record. Without the DJ's who find these records and the all-nighter scene the wider audience as you call it would have been totally unaware of this record. As for Tommy, well he is aware of this record and the exposure it has already had and I'm certain he was already thrilled to see it getting the attention today that it didn't get when recorded. I will buy the record, it probably my all time favourite after Tommy Ridgely and I can't afford 2 or 3k to buy an original but like I said from the viewpoint of someone who has the rare soul scene at heart it would have been nice to see this record get a couple more years of exposure from the Dj's who have worked hard to get this record to where it is today. As for bootleggers, as far as I know there isn't a sound-file on the net although I haven't looked lately, I don't think there is a decent scan of the labels either, not from ebay anyway. But one thing is for sure as soon as the record is released you can bet it will be all over the internet within days. I haven't seen or heard of the look-a-like boot Tim mentions, a link if anyone knows of one would be nice. The sound file on here btw is just part of the record copied then pasted on the end. I've no wish to get embroiled in an argument, I've simply stated my opinion, an opinion shared by others who don't get involved in such matters on here. ATB Chalky Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Guest TONY ROUNCE Posted February 6, 2011 Share Posted February 6, 2011 (edited) How dare you legally issue Tommy and the Derbys, Mr, Cape? Have you no consideration for the tiny number of DJs who've had almost unprecedented access to the original 45 for several years - and whose livelihoods you have undoubtedly ruined, at a stroke, by having the temerity to organise a legal reissue that might benefit its performer? Have you no shame? Personally I think you should divert any future royalty stream that the track might accrue straight into Butch's bank account, as he'll obviously never get another spot at a niter now that you've impacted in his livelihood in such a brazen manner. And when you've done that, I urge you to please keep on doin' what you're doin' because, like Paul, Sean and all the others on here who have spoken up in favour of your efforts to get this wonderful record out at an affordable price, I could care less about the 'offence' you're causing by doin' it! Edited February 6, 2011 by TONY ROUNCE Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Guest Paul Posted February 6, 2011 Share Posted February 6, 2011 Hi Paul, Regardless of how big or small the all-nighter scene is, it is the all-nighter scene and the rare soul DJ's hard work in finding records that bring these records to a wider audience. Even though the record has been about years it has never really been pushed as much as it probably should have until Andy got a copy. Like I said it still hasn't fully achieved it's potential yet and there was still plenty of life left in this record. It's been hard work for the DJ's lucky enough to have a copy to break this record. Without the DJ's who find these records and the all-nighter scene the wider audience as you call it would have been totally unaware of this record. As for Tommy, well he is aware of this record and the exposure it has already had and I'm certain he was already thrilled to see it getting the attention today that it didn't get when recorded. I will buy the record, it probably my all time favourite after Tommy Ridgely and I can't afford 2 or 3k to buy an original but like I said from the viewpoint of someone who has the rare soul scene at heart it would have been nice to see this record get a couple more years of exposure from the Dj's who have worked hard to get this record to where it is today. As for bootleggers, as far as I know there isn't a sound-file on the net although I haven't looked lately, I don't think there is a decent scan of the labels either, not from ebay anyway. But one thing is for sure as soon as the record is released you can bet it will be all over the internet within days. I haven't seen or heard of the look-a-like boot Tim mentions, a link if anyone knows of one would be nice. The sound file on here btw is just part of the record copied then pasted on the end. I've no wish to get embroiled in an argument, I've simply stated my opinion, an opinion shared by others who don't get involved in such matters on here. ATB Chalky Thanks Chalky, we see things from different perspectives but it's good that we can also understand and appreciate each others views. I can see how different things are these days, there was a time when new discoveries went big very quickly and were soon heard by thousands of people. Personally, I've never had to face this issue with my own labels because I've never released a record in response to demand on the current rare soul scene. If ever I do I know I can expect heavy criticism from some people! Putting all other aspects aside, it interests me that some other labels which issue rare soul tracks don't seem to get this kind of objection. Maybe I'm wrong about that but I just wonder if it's okay for some and not for others? I'm glad you like the track so much, I like it too but I far prefer some of Tommy's other tracks - particularly 'A Lover's Reward' which may well be my all-time favourite. Best wishes, Paul Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Guest Paul Posted February 6, 2011 Share Posted February 6, 2011 How dare you legally issue Tommy and the Derbys, Mr, Cape? Have you no consideration for the tiny number of DJs who've had almost unprecedented access to the original 45 for several years - and whose livelihoods you have undoubtedly ruined, at a stroke, by having the temerity to organise a legal reissue that might benefit its performer? Have you no shame? Personally I think you should divert any future royalty stream that the track might accrue straight into Butch's bank account, as he'll obviously never get another spot at a niter now that you've impacted in his livelihood in such a brazen manner. And when you've done that, I urge you to please keep on doin' what you're doin' because, like Paul, Sean and all the others on here who have spoken up in favour of your efforts to get this wonderful record out at an affordable price, I could care less about the 'offence' you're causing by doin' it! Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Guest trickbag Posted February 6, 2011 Share Posted February 6, 2011 TOMMY AND THE DERBY'S, posted on youtube by sister dawn so now the world has it, why the arguement. ricky. Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Chalky Posted February 6, 2011 Share Posted February 6, 2011 Putting all other aspects aside, it interests me that some other labels which issue rare soul tracks don't seem to get this kind of objection. Maybe I'm wrong about that but I just wonder if it's okay for some and not for others? Best wishes, Paul I think people do feel the same about some of the other releases but then again many have already achieved cult or monster (as some call them) status or were put out by the people who DJ'ed with them. Again I can see the argument from both sides and it is clear that those shouting out in favour of this release don't support the all-nighter scene whereas those that are of an opposing opinion do support the rare soul all-nighters. I am in favour of re-issues like this but I have given my opinion already why this should have waited a while longer. These arguments have been about for decades, big sounds booted which straight away ruined the record for the Dj's concerned and they were immediately dropped but back then there was plenty of other records to replace them, we don't have that situation today and that is why the rare soul scene has to get the most out of quality records before they are released, booted or distributed via other means, internet etc. Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Chalky Posted February 6, 2011 Share Posted February 6, 2011 TOMMY AND THE DERBY'S, posted on youtube by sister dawn so now the world has it, why the arguement. ricky. the one on youtube isn't the actual record, it's the same as the clip on Soul Source, half the record, then it's copied and looped/pasted on the end. Where he sings, "So you've got a little money....." it is only in the record once, not twice The record isn't 2min 50 odd seconds long, it's 2 min 29 seconds or something like that. Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
pikeys dog Posted February 6, 2011 Share Posted February 6, 2011 There's no such thing as bad publicity. Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Mrtag Posted February 6, 2011 Share Posted February 6, 2011 There's no such thing as bad publicity. So True!! Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Guest Bearsy Posted February 6, 2011 Share Posted February 6, 2011 Hello Chalky, Interesting point but the rare soul all-nighter scene is fairly small and it isn't so important to everyone. And in my opinion it really can't determine what records can and cannot be issued or reissued. As you said, this track has already been played on that scene for 15 years or so. So as interesting as the scene is, I personally see it as just a part of a bigger music world and I don't see that any particular scene has a right to exclusivity. The music wasn't made by or for any particular scene. And it's probably true that if this record was only worth £10 it wouldn't often be played on the scene. I admit that I am out of touch (my own choice) with the rare soul all-nighter scene but there's nothing wrong with that, I've been a passionate soul fan all my life and I don't feel I need to have the approval of any particular faction. I was once part of the all-nighter scene (starting about 38 years ago) and I find it fascinating but there's a bigger world. I don't know Garry's reasons for this particular reissue at this particular time but he has previously issued two Tommy Tate albums containing vintage material (as have other labels) and I know Tommy did benefit from that and he was thrilled with the attention. I don't know if Tommy will benefit financially from this particular reissue (it's none of my business) but I wouldn't be surprised if he does. As for the "hard work" of DJs etc, I can appreciate that point but what's far more important to me is the hard work of those who made the music, not to forget the fact that many Tommy Tate fans will get the chance to hear this track and buy it at an affordable price. The real problem is that nobody has the right to make rules about these things. Does a record company need to get approval from a rare soul committee before it can reissue a record? Who will give the approval and who will they have been elected by? The truth is that buying a rare record doesn't give anyone any rights. An additional point worth considering is that, after 15 years of exposure on the scene, this record could have been a target for bootleggers. Best wishes, Paul put it on CD then with another 12 Tommy tracks and they will get to hear even more of his genius, why vinyl ????? Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Guest Paul Posted February 6, 2011 Share Posted February 6, 2011 put it on CD then with another 12 Tommy tracks and they will get to hear even more of his genius, why vinyl ????? Hello Bearsy, This isn't my project but, as it happens, Soulscape have already issued two Tommy Tate CD albums in the past. Another was issued by Ace. You can't wish that a record is exclusive (or remains exclusive) just for the scene. It seems selfish and it also suggests that exclusivity is more important than the music. In fact, I already said that if it was only worth £10 it wouldn't be of much interest to the scene anyway. So, as fascinating as the rare soul scene is, it's just a small scene and it doesn't have a right to impose rules on anyone. No doubt we'll never agree on these things, Bearsy, but I hope you can respect my views. From a very young age I've always been passionate about soul music and have made efforts to help expose, promote and share it with other people. That just seems natural to me. The music comes first and last. Best wishes, Paul Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Guest Bearsy Posted February 6, 2011 Share Posted February 6, 2011 Hello Bearsy, This isn't my project but, as it happens, Soulscape have already issued two Tommy Tate CD albums in the past. Another was issued by Ace. You can't wish that a record is exclusive (or remains exclusive) just for the scene. It seems selfish and it also suggests that exclusivity is more important than the music. In fact, I already said that if it was only worth £10 it wouldn't be of much interest to the scene anyway. So, as fascinating as the rare soul scene is, it's just a small scene and it doesn't have a right to impose rules on anyone. No doubt we'll never agree on these things, Bearsy, but I hope you can respect my views. From a very young age I've always been passionate about soul music and have made efforts to help expose, promote and share it with other people. That just seems natural to me. The music comes first and last. Best wishes, Paul Hi Paul I respect your views and i hope you respect mine i just dont understand why the need for it to be released on Vinyl, whats the gain in that for anyone sorry but i just dont get it and as you say, The music comes first and last, first came the Original last came the quick $$ atb Bearsy Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Steve G Posted February 6, 2011 Share Posted February 6, 2011 I've not played my copy out for a few months now, it's not really working on the dancefloor down here, although I agree a great 45. Steve Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Guest Paul Posted February 6, 2011 Share Posted February 6, 2011 Hi Paul I respect your views and i hope you respect mine i just dont understand why the need for it to be released on Vinyl, whats the gain in that for anyone sorry but i just dont get it and as you say, The music comes first and last, first came the Original last came the quick $$ atb Bearsy Of course I respect your views, Bearsy, but I think there will always be (slightly) wider interest in any Tommy Tate record on any format. Personally, I much prefer other Tommy Tate tracks but this thread shows there's a lot of interest in 'Don't Play The Role'. It will be interesting to see how well it sells. Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Dean Rudland Posted February 7, 2011 Share Posted February 7, 2011 Hi Paul I respect your views and i hope you respect mine i just dont understand why the need for it to be released on Vinyl, whats the gain in that for anyone sorry but i just dont get it and as you say, The music comes first and last, first came the Original last came the quick $ atb Bearsy Really respecting someone's views by accusing them of making a quick buck. Especially someone like Gary, who has dedicated more of his time to uncovering rare soul than almost anyone on this site. No one who spends their time treking around the States searching out rare records and masters is making a quick buck. And if, whilst working on his releases Gary finds something that's in demand he has an absolute duty to himself, the owner of the work and the artist to make it as available as possible. As proven by those who complained about us not making some of the Sounds Of Memphis tracks available that means on vinyl as well as CD. Without the likes of Gary, Ady, Tony and others digging out some of the finest undiscovered recordings of the last few years, the rare soul scene would be a far poorer place. And if after being played out for three or four years by Butch and others Tommy and the Derby's is still under-exposed that's probably already quite a poor place. Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Steve G Posted February 7, 2011 Share Posted February 7, 2011 (edited) Personally, I much prefer other Tommy Tate tracks but this thread shows there's a lot of interest in 'Don't Play The Role'. It will be interesting to see how well it sells. Yup. Remember spinning this just over a year ago at one gig, and someone quite well known comes up to me and says "Can you take this mid tempo sh*te off please and play some northern". There is NO accounting for taste!! Just goes to show you cannot please all of the people all of the time. Edited February 7, 2011 by Steve G Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Harrogatesoul Posted February 7, 2011 Share Posted February 7, 2011 Do legal re-issues really effect the price of originals? Thus scuppering the investment made by the big dj's/collectors? I've yet to see the price of original pieces of vinyl from say the Grapevine catalogue Servicemen / Magnetics / Ernest Baker etc fall through the floor due to their availability on a new 45. Reproduce a Ming dyynasty vase and sell it for £30 its still worth £30 but the original is still worth millions.. As for Bitch Dj's comments on the frowned upon practice in the 70s - most if not all were illegal boots no? And rolling out the excuse of Tommys ill health? Please..... I'm sure the man himself is happy (in ill health or not) that his magic and work is still being appreciated by people today. If I were a man in his later years and a young soul collector without thousands of pounds to spend on original 45s acquires a legally available piece of my work and brings a smile and a grooving nod to a young collector then I'd be a happy man. It's not just the Butchs' of this world who bring great soul music to the fore - Individuals like Garry ,Ady. Tony Rounce, Dean Rudland , Phil Dick at Soul Intention , Paul Mooney, John Anderson, Rod Dearlove, and many many others continue to bring out fantasic unbelievable soul to us the hungry punters. Both the Butchs & Andy Dysons of this world go hand in hand with the above mentioned people (and many more) in this wonderful long lasting scene of ours. They should be both applauded from the directions in which they come from on their monumental efforts, financial or otherwise in providing us with great soul music. Both the above mentioned dj's amongst others will be remembered and revered for their enthusiasm and collecting prowess and not to mention their abilities as great dj's. Andy Dyson for one was an early influence on me as a young collector and for that I will be eternally grateful. I'm pretty sure their investments are safe. I'll be purchasing the 45 as I have all the others along with other great labels - but then if my numbers come in on the lottery I'd have no hesitation in trying to acquire the original Tommy & The Derbys 45 so it sits nicely alongside all my other Tommy Tate 45s. Anybodys ire should be directed at the ebay bootleggers and the known bootleggers (i'm sure people know who they are) who are awashing the scene with illegal copies and that it is those who are making the 'fast bucks' . Best reply was from 71 Steve I wasn't aware of Hit & Run until today, but pleased I am now and have just placed an order for five with interest to see what else comes out in the future! Cheers. Steve You see that? 11 posts on Soul Source. Wasn't aware of the product or the label - but now Steve is aware and investing in his own way into this great (and sometimes not so great) scene of ours. I like that. Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Ady Croasdell Posted February 8, 2011 Share Posted February 8, 2011 It's odd that there's a kerfuffle about this one when nobody made a fuss about say Goldmine's "For Millionaire's Only" which were 20 super-rare, hard to find tracks many of which weren't licensed from the correct owner. Kent has just done a similar re-issue of the Antellects and the Ravins and I considered what damage it might do to the scene. They have both been around ten to twenty years now, there are enough copies of the Antellects to make it a very well known record to anyone on the scene over the past few years. A vinyl reissue makes it available to collectors who can't spend £thousands and will only get played at non-OVO venues and won't affect the price much at all. The Ravins took more pondering as I know Andy Dyson's been playing it over the last couple of years, and it's been so rare that nobody else has been able to copy him. In this case I doubt if the record would be able to get much bigger on its current schedule so collectors can buy it and play it at home or local soul nights (or in Europe, where the scene's not quite so fastidious), thereby spreading the music; and if Andy does play it out elsewhere most people will know it's the real Mccoy and pop up for a peek. In both cases the direct families of the label owners will receive royalties. It's doubtful that those will filter down to members of the groups as they are so obscure and people have been tracking them unsuccessfully for years. If you come across a stray Ravin or Antellect please let me know. Ady Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Benji Posted February 8, 2011 Share Posted February 8, 2011 ... (or in Europe, where the scene's not quite so fastidious) ... Oi! I resemble that remark Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Ady Croasdell Posted February 8, 2011 Share Posted February 8, 2011 Oi! I resemble that remark You could possibly take it as a complement Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
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