Politics

[Guest Bearsy]

just what is "Politics" in our scene

had a converation with someone tonight saying how refreshing to go to a night where there is no politics, wtf is politics, egos yes cos who aint got one wether a dj a promoter a dancer cos without egos where would we all be, politics aint that a goverment thing ok shoot me down but ffs sake why the fook do does that word get used its beyond me

rant over nite nite

[Guest]

As per Wiki: Politics (from Greek πολιτικος, [politik³s]: «citizen», «civilian»), is a process by which groups of people make collective decisions.

The term is generally applied to the art or science of running

governmental or state affairs. It also refers to behavior within civil governments, but politics has been observed in other group interactions, including corporate, academic, and religious institutions. It consists of "social relations involving authority or power"[1] and refers to the regulation of public affairs within a political unit,[2] and to the methods and tactics used to formulate and apply policy.[3]

In other words it's a bunch of people that believe they know how 'it' should be run and try and force it on everyone else

[Dave Pinch]

thats pretty much it. we all have our own opinions and tastes and eveyone dissagrees with us lol

dave

[Guest]

thats pretty much it. we all have our own opinions and tastes and eveyone dissagrees with us lol

dave

Different strokes for different folks : one person's crab stick is another person's lobster .......

Too much music , too little time - just get on with it , and forget the bollotics .

Malc

[Jumpinjoan]

I have never been able to get my head round this 'politics' thing either. WTF is that all about?

Although the word politics does sound a bit better than jealousy

[barney]

think polotics is just a euphemism for a number of things and the music is secondary

jealousy and avarice are usually the driving forces behind most of the polotics

and that old chestnut location and timing

[Guest proudlove]

Can I just politely say..................................................I don't give a tuppeny toss about polotics or any other shite..............................I (we) go where we want where it be a niter or nite.............and usually have a good time.

Steve.

[Steve L]

Politics has just been a convenient cover all name to describe various unsavoury elements that have always been present on the scene, ie jealousy, rivalry, bitterness, envy, back stabbing. one upmanship, greed, intolerance etc etc

Sad really but all part of human nature

[Guest Matt Male]

Although the word politics does sound a bit better than jealousy

I agree Joan, politics is used as an excuse by moaners who don't like a certain venue or point of view. What they really mean is people who disagree with them.

Every time anyone uses the phrase too many politics it just makes me think they should either grow up or stay at home.

[Mark Bicknell]

Politics has just been a convenient cover all name to describe various unsavoury elements that have always been present on the scene, ie jealousy, rivalry, bitterness, envy, back stabbing. one upmanship, greed, intolerance etc etc

Sad really but all part of human nature

And all of the above were pretty much the reason I stepped back from the scene/DJ'ing, now just do my own thing with the music/records and having a ball.

Regards - Mark Bicknell.

[Godzilla]

I agree Joan, politics is used as an excuse by moaners who don't like a certain venue or point of view. What they really mean is people who disagree with them.

Every time anyone uses the phrase too many politics it just makes me think they should either grow up or stay at home.

I know what you mean Matt - but doesn't politics sometime equate to policy.

All the usual arguments about: where/when/whether reissues or boots can be played and which are ok and which are not; whether to avoid clashes or take a 'strongest will survive attitude; If venues should stick to certain types of music whether it be traditional Northern, Crossover, R&B, Modern or to play 'across the board; what sort of mix (if any) is acceptable/right for the scene; whether young people should be encouraged or discouraged and what age is the cut off point.; should DJ's be paid or motivated by the love of it...

...I could go on. All of the above contribute to debate, argument, analysis and can in my view be thought of as 'political' subjects.

It's just like real life really. You get people who say "I'm not interested in politics, but the truth is as soon as you get up, form an opinion about what's on the news, go to work, think about your pay, taxes, (or benefts if not working) cost of living, by a paper, you're involved in politics.

No getting away from it really

(and for God's sake please don't use the above post to re-open any of those much discussed topics )

Edited January 16, 2011 by Godzilla

[Soulman]

And all of the above were pretty much the reason I stepped back from the scene/DJ'ing, now just do my own thing with the music/records and having a ball.

Regards - Mark Bicknell.

And you do right Mark. Job done!

[Guest Matt Male]

I know what you mean Matt - but doesn't politics sometime equate to policy.

All the usual arguments about: where/when/whether reissues or boots can be played and which are ok and which are not; whether to avoid clashes or take a 'strongest will survive attitude; If venues should stick to certain types of music whether it be traditional Northern, Crossover, R&B, Modern or to play 'across the board; what sort of mix (if any) is acceptable/right for the scene; whether young people should be encouraged or discouraged and what age is the cut off point.; should DJ's be paid or motivated by the love of it...

...I could go on. All of the above contribute to debate, argument, analysis and can in my view be thought of as 'political' subjects.

It's just like real life really. You get people who say "I'm not interested in politics, but the truth is as soon as you get up, form an opinion about what's on the news, go to work, think about your pay, taxes, (or benefts if not working) cost of living, by a paper, you're involved in politics.

No getting away from it really

(and for God's sake please don't use the above post to re-open any of those much discussed topics )

I agree Godz, i was trying to explain what people on the scene mean when they moan about politics. I agree, we are all political and all human interaction is poltical. On here though it's always used a perjorative term and not the neutral one it actually is.

[Godzilla]

I agree Godz, i was trying to explain what people on the scene mean when they moan about politics. I agree, we are all political and all human interaction is poltical. On here though it's always used a perjorative term and not the neutral one it actually is.

Yeah just looked at your post again and see we're saying the same thing. New years res is to stop being so vain and start wearing the specs that I so clearly need to read properly

[Guest Matt Male]

Nothing that happens on the scene would make me pack the scene in, not thesedays. Only personal or family circumstances might do that. I've never come across anything on the scene that isn't also out there in the real world. As adults we just have to get on with it, and other people, and deal with it. 99.9% of the time it's a bloody good time.

[Guest Bearsy]

thought as much, thanks

[Spacehopper]

glad to say no 'politics' down here in bristol....soul train,hot buttered soul,getting together and go go children...all slightly different...all doing there own thing...all friendly toward each other...sometimes we may clash,cant always be avoided but upto the punters where they go...lifes too short!

dean

[Ady Croasdell]

Politics is generally seen as a bad thing on the scene but can also be an excuse to bury heads in sand. The scene ain't perfect and criticisms and suggestions may be negative or can be positive and improve the scene.

I agree with any customer who says they don't want to be involved as they pay their entrance money and should have an enjoyable evening listening and dancing to great soul records. However if they think something's not right, be it lighting PA, the playing of bootlegs, nasty bouncers, venues clashing or disreputable practices, then they've got every right to comment either in private or on a public platform like this.

It really shouldn't be a term of horror as it incorporates so much of our scene (by adoption of it as terminology for just about any gripe), but participate or don't it's your call.

Ady

[Guest enchantedrythm]

without politics there is no preference

[Kev Moore]

without politics there is no preference

I don't think I've ever been to a venue that has openly stated it 'has' politics!

I see it as a general term. No politics-just come and have a good time.

Kev

Edited January 17, 2011 by Kev Moore

[macca]

isn't it about different 'political ideologies'?

the scene has been divided into factions since the mid 70s

when one collective chose to play and dance to contemporary black american music and those

who preferred to stick with the type of music they enjoyed prior to to this divergence, whether it

was bonafide uptempo 60s soul or white pop stompers. the levine must go campaign was politics.

there are still people who believe that anything recorded after december 31st 1969 is worthy of

derision and others that believe that stuff recorded before that date is quaintly primitive & are proud for having 'moved on'.

with the early 80s we saw another divergence with midtempo and beat ballads coming to the fore.

I can't say I was mightily impressed when the tempo began to slow down and stuff like doug banks, kurt harris

and gene mcdaniels were first played. I would skulk off to the record bar. I was being 'political' I guess. :-)

then there are those that keep the OVO ethos alive,

branding those who use boots, reissues, cds as heretics and cheapskates.. It's all ideological positioning really and

anybody who offers an opinion on here regarding such stuff is being 'political'. look at the debate on the nina simone remix.

[Guest enchantedrythm]

I don't think I've ever been to a venue that has openly stated it 'has' politics!

I see it as a general term. No politics-just come and have a good time.

Kev

just the fact that a venue champions oldies or newies must be a statement based on policy, isn't that politics?

[Guest Bearsy]

just the fact that a venue champions oldies or newies must be a statement based on policy, isn't that politics?

no its what the promoter is advertising to let soulies know what night/nighter they are promoting and ive never seen a bollot box at a soul venue so still dont understand what politics are at a soul night/nighter

[Guest]

isn't it about different 'political ideologies'?

the scene has been divided into factions since the mid 70s

when one collective chose to play and dance to contemporary black american music and those

who preferred to stick with the type of music they enjoyed prior to to this divergence, whether it

was bonafide uptempo 60s soul or white pop stompers. the levine must go campaign was politics.

there are still people who believe that anything recorded after december 31st 1969 is worthy of

derision and others that believe that stuff recorded before that date is quaintly primitive & are proud for having 'moved on'.

with the early 80s we saw another divergence with midtempo and beat ballads coming to the fore.

I can't say I was mightily impressed when the tempo began to slow down and stuff like doug banks, kurt harris

and gene mcdaniels were first played. I would skulk off to the record bar. I was being 'political' I guess. :-)

then there are those that keep the OVO ethos alive,

branding those who use boots, reissues, cds as heretics and cheapskates.. It's all ideological positioning really and

anybody who offers an opinion on here regarding such stuff is being 'political'. look at the debate on the nina simone remix.

In other words, it's a case of what you like and what you don't like and telling everyone about it in the hope they'll tag along?

[KevH]

no its what the promoter is advertising to let soulies know what night/nighter they are promoting and ive never seen a bollot box at a soul venue so still dont understand what politics are at a soul night/nighter

Its about who goes where,who dj's where,who goes somewhere but offends folks unintentionally by not going somewhere else,who dj's somewhere that clashes with somewhere and is seen as a snub,someone who flyers a venue that clashes with another,someone who spreads the word that a venue is cancelled,or a dj won't be turning up.

Don't get me started on the music.

[Guest enchantedrythm]

no its what the promoter is advertising to let soulies know what night/nighter they are promoting and ive never seen a bollot box at a soul venue so still dont understand what politics are at a soul night/nighter

don't we vote with our feet

[Guest Paul]

Life itself has politics.

[Mark Bicknell]

Most politicians talk bollocks, shout loud and say fuck all lol

Regards - Mark Bicknell - Monster Raving Looney Sit At Home And Play My Records Party.

Edited January 17, 2011 by Mark Bicknell

[Guest Bearsy]

don't we vote with our feet

sorry i dont understand, ive always voted with a pen and paper or put me hand up, i choose to go to a venue or not if thats what your getting at but how is that political

[Guest Bearsy]

Its about who goes where,who dj's where,who goes somewhere but offends folks unintentionally by not going somewhere else,who dj's somewhere that clashes with somewhere and is seen as a snub,someone who flyers a venue that clashes with another,someone who spreads the word that a venue is cancelled,or a dj won't be turning up.

Don't get me started on the music.

Kev how can music be political i dont understand ps, i must go look for my Free Angela album

[macca]

I like the term 'baggage'. Refreshingly free of political baggage could well describe the European scene, which eventually will become factionalised, it's human nature.

I know people who wrote impassioned letters to Blues & Soul and Echoes over the 'issues' of the day. All politics, then and now.

[KevH]

Kev how can music be political i dont understand ps, i must go look for my Free Angela album

,peace brother.

[Guest Paul]

Most politicians talk bollocks, shout loud and say fuck all lol

Regards - Mark Bicknell - Monster Raving Looney Sit At Home And Play My Records Party.

Hello Mark,

Do you ever argue with yourself ?

I do sometimes ...no I don't, oh yes I do !

See what I mean ???

It's best to debate the issue with yourself, then vote on it.

Paul

[Guest]

sorry i dont understand, ive always voted with a pen and paper or put me hand up, i choose to go to a venue or not if thats what your getting at but how is that political

Bearsy, that answer is so political and you know it LOL

[Mark Bicknell]

Hello Mark,

Do you ever argue with yourself ?

I do sometimes ...no I don't, oh yes I do !

See what I mean ???

It's best to debate the issue with yourself, then vote on it.

Paul

Like I said most politicians talk a lot and say very little lol

[Guest Paul]

Like I said most politicians talk a lot and say very little lol

So do most DJs.

[Guest enchantedrythm]

Kev how can music be political i dont understand ps, i must go look for my Free Angela album

fuller bros= times a wasting is very political, thats the tip of another iceberg

[Winnie :-)]

In times of plenty the politicians are nowhere to be seen, you know they're there because the obesity problem is increasing and although they're the ones who issue the health warnings, they pay no heed to them themselves. One new venue after another pops up, some have a longer shelf life, but eventually most of them go sour. The problem is there's too much product and not enough consumers, the politicians (spin doctors) would have you believe you'd get a better quality product if you went 'here', their opposition will champion the virtues of 'there' which includes the equavalent of green shield stamps, so the political spectrum is set up. There will then be the usual battle opening salvos usually include ''they play boots/CDs/MP3'', or ''more played out oldies'' these will be accompanied by assurances....''it's OVO here and as rare as hen's teeth'' or ''if it's underplayed we'll give it a spin'', never mind if it's not particualry good you'll come to love it if you want to be and remain in the elite. So all of a sudden it's election time, do you go for the devil you know or do you plump for the brave new world? If you go 'devil you know', you risk being castigated ...... '' have you seen them there, some of them still wear bags...blah blah....footsee.....blah'' do you want to be associated with that scene? The alternative asks ''do you really want to be drawing attention to our multiple chins by trying to stroke all of them'' what's a voter to do??

For me personally, I try to pay no attention, I've always gone where I liked, danced to what I liked, chatted to who I liked, it's perhaps a simplistic ethic but it's worked for me, guess I can't ask for much more than that in life

Winnie :-)

[Little-stevie]

no its what the promoter is advertising to let soulies know what night/nighter they are promoting and ive never seen a bollot box at a soul venue so still dont understand what politics are at a soul night/nighter

If you aint ever seen/heard it then thats a good thing in my book.. Keep on doing what you are doing...

The best place is the dancefloor, keep away from the DARK CORNERS and never stray behind the curtains... YOU HAVE BE WARNED

All we need is love love love...

[Mark Bicknell]

So do most DJs.

Lol

[Guest Bearsy]

If you aint ever seen/heard it then thats a good thing in my book.. Keep on doing what you are doing...

The best place is the dancefloor, keep away from the DARK CORNERS and never stray behind the curtains... YOU HAVE BE WARNED

All we need is love love love...

I can honestly say i aint seen it persoanlly Steve BUT ive heard and seen lots lots of bitching, slagging off, moaning, groaning, showing off, pretence, egos etc etc but from reading this thread through i guess thats just what the Politics must be, ive read on plenty of threads ie events or lookbacks "no politics or egos" and that always has me confused which aint easy especially after a good night out

reason i started this thread everyone is cos i was talking to some geezer on Saturday night and he said how great it was to be at a soul night where there aint no politcs, i asked him what he meant, he replied, all the djs are getting on and encouraging each other and sharing info about their records to each other, that really confused me but then again not much dont nowadays

cant we just call it Jealousy its better suited

[Guest Bearsy]

=============================================================================================================

A mate of mine wanted to buy a house. The estate agent told him it was a house at the end of the runway of a Northern Soul Airport that had been there for years and that the aeroplanes made a certain type of noise.The estate agent impressed on him the type of airport it was but my mate said that he was happy to go ahead with the purchase anyway. A short time after making the purchase my mate started moaning about the noise the aeroplanes made and saying that he didn't like it. He wanted to live in a house where he could hear the sound of marine engines....the sort of noise that boats made. The noise he wanted to hear was similar to aeroplane engines but not the same....he wanted marine engines. Even though nearly all of the other residents were happy with the aeroplane engines, he wanted to make a big fuss and say that the runway should be dug up and replaced with a marina. He made the point that anyone who disagreed with him was a backward thinking anti-aqua imbecile.

The residents drowned my mate in the bit of the marina he managed to get built......the Red Arrows were flying overhead as they did it (or Adam's Apples as I call them) and I'm glad that they did. He was a twat!!!!

totally understand it all now if only life was that simple

[Simsy]

Politics perhaps can mean the same as the unwritten rule. Basically anything the Soul Police would have you for...

A do that has been advertised with a start and finish time, clearly stated and reasonably priced door tax, that doesn't clash with any simalr do within a minimum of an hour's drive radius. They will play original vinyl only they will endeavour to cater (musically at least) for all in attendance - they will not play hammered oldies, they will not play continual obscurities, they will not play too much of one thing..

All of the above points checked and your so called politics are tip top. Miss more than of a couple of these points though and your politics are out of whack and there will be an APB out on you!

[Gene-r]

I can honestly say i aint seen it persoanlly Steve BUT ive heard and seen lots lots of bitching, slagging off, moaning, groaning, showing off, pretence, egos etc etc but from reading this thread through i guess thats just what the Politics must be, ive read on plenty of threads ie events or lookbacks "no politics or egos" and that always has me confused which aint easy especially after a good night out

reason i started this thread everyone is cos i was talking to some geezer on Saturday night and he said how great it was to be at a soul night where there aint no politcs, i asked him what he meant, he replied, all the djs are getting on and encouraging each other and sharing info about their records to each other, that really confused me but then again not much dont nowadays

cant we just call it Jealousy its better suited

Amen Bearsy, and that's just one of the reasons why I sold my collection and said goodbye to the 'scene'.

As a DJ, I was lambasted for DJing at my own venue and not going to other venues (f***ing petty or what?), and the whole DJ side of it was every man for himself - trying to keep secrets about their records etc (eg, you try to remind yourself what the long-uncovered Stafford oldie was called which your mate is playing, and run up to the decks to have a look, only for him to cover the label up with his hands when he caught you looking over). Egotism, one-upmanship and plain snobbery got too much, so I'm far better off without it thank you very much. It really got to the point of being too childish and tit-for-tat. Quite honestly, I'd rather eat sh*t.

These days, I prefer to sit at home with a box of records and a turntable - the only thing to disagree with me is that night's whisky and doner kebab the next day. Perhaps almost 30 years of being on the 'scene' has turned me into a sad, embittered old git.

Edited January 18, 2011 by Gene-R

[Guest Bearsy]

Amen Bearsy, and that's just one of the reasons why I sold my collection and said goodbye to the 'scene'.

As a DJ, I was lambasted for DJing at my own venue and not going to other venues (f***ing petty or what?), and the whole DJ side of it was every man for himself - trying to keep secrets about their records etc (eg, you try to remind yourself what the long-uncovered Stafford oldie was called which your mate is playing, and run up to the decks to have a look, only for him to cover the label up with his hands when he caught you looking over). Egotism, one-upmanship and plain snobbery got too much, so I'm far better off without it thank you very much. It really got to the point of being too childish and tit-for-tat. Quite honestly, I'd rather eat sh*t.

These days, I prefer to sit at home with a box of records and a turntable - the only thing to disagree with me is that night's whisky and doner kebab the next day. Perhaps almost 30 years of being on the 'scene' has turned me into a sad, embittered old git.

Hi Gene, long time no see i hope your well fine and dandy

wish i could say i havent hidden a tune for a while just to get some play time out of it myself and also not happy when boots on the other foot when i want to know whats being hidden aint no one told you whiskey and kebabs dont mix be good and maybe see you again soon you imbittered sad old git you

[Gene-r]

Hi Gene, long time no see i hope your well fine and dandy

wish i could say i havent hidden a tune for a while just to get some play time out of it myself and also not happy when boots on the other foot when i want to know whats being hidden aint no one told you whiskey and kebabs dont mix be good and maybe see you again soon you imbittered sad old git you

Hey Bearsy! How you doing me old mucker?

All's fine here thanks - just being a lazy sod as usual! Hope to catch up with you soon mate. And yes - you're right. Whisky and kebabs don't mix. Hummus or chili sauce is better!

[Guest gordon russell]

It,s when some people tell you one thing and clearly do another

It,s when their motive for doing something is completely opposite from what they tell you their motive is

It,s when they tell you what they think you want to hear

It,s when they run venues,but never attend anyone elses (always busy,work,family ect)

It,s when they attend venues only when they dj not as a soul fan (when of course they should decline )

It,s when they always send mates to flyer venues they,ve never set foot in and neither do they intend to

It,s when they put charity events on and keep the charity money

It,s when you know what they're thinking as they talk to you (for talk read lie)

It,s when folk still attend a venue to dj when the promoter has clearly comitted a wrongdoing. choosing to completly ignore the fact under the guise of l didn,t know honest

It,s when dj,s go to a new club a couple of times (to hang around for a spot ) then when they don,t get one never go again

It,s when dj,s ring promoters for a spot (arrogantly thinking they're good enough) and still don,t go to the venue

It,s when folk tell a dj "great spot mate " then tell someone else " that was shite":D

It,s all these things above on this scene that are jumbled together and we call em POLITICS

HA! HA! but wait, they are all negated by the fact that most people can (and do) read between the lines.

this however does not apply to the nice folk who are kind enough to talk to me.......peggy big??

Edited January 18, 2011 by gordon russell

[Little-stevie]

It,s when some people tell you one thing and clearly do another

It,s when their motive for doing something is completely opposite from what they tell you their motive is

It,s when they tell you what they think you want to hear

It,s when they run venues,but never attend anyone elses (always busy,work,family ect)

It,s when they attend venues only when they dj not as a soul fan (when of course they should decline )

It,s when they always send mates to flyer venues they,ve never set foot in and neither do they intend to

It,s when they put charity events on and keep the charity money

It,s when you know what they're thinking as they talk to you (for talk read lie)

It,s when folk still attend a venue to dj when the promoter has clearly comitted a wrongdoing. choosing to completly ignore the fact under the guise of l didn,t know honest

It,s when dj,s go to a new club a couple of times (to hang around for a spot ) then when they don,t get one never go again

It,s when dj,s ring promoters for a spot (arrogantly thinking they're good enough) and still don,t go to the venue

It,s when folk tell a dj "great spot mate " then tell someone else " that was shite":D

It,s all these things above on this scene that are jumbled together and we call em POLITICS

HA! HA! but wait, they are all negated by the fact that most people can (and do) read between the lines.

this however does not apply to the nice folk who are kind enough to talk to me.......peggy big??

Peggy

please stop telling the truth, its just not playing the game...

Beware Peggy, you will have the politics and bullsh"t merchants and taking a contract out on you

You are the Wiki leaks of the soul scene..

I will see you at the Burnley niter for more insight to the world of soul....

[Chalky]

Terry you missed one from your list.......

It's when someone tells someone not to play beat balls and mid tempo records ;-)

Anyone who has the audacity to hold an opinion that differs to someone else is someone on this scene who is political.

You can say what you want, run an event how you want to run it and advertise as such but someone will still disagree or take offence. Politics as it I'd called has always been around and always will be. It's envy, jealousy, people who make a penny out of the scene (how dare they), it's something that doesn't fit in with anothers viewpoint.

[Geeselad]

To me there are only two kinds of people on the scene, those who love and live for the music and those that want to expliot it, in some way, for reasons of greed and ego, they exist in all aspects of the scene and on every level.