Does anyone know what the score is with all the boots/ repressing etc with these Detroit Labels? I've never understood which ones are real and which ones not. There's the pink,grey and multi coloured Revilot- the red, yellow and blue (2 designs?) Wingate, Ric- Tic and Solid Hit in different colours too I think. Which ones are real and which ones not?

I don't have the Manship books but I'm thinking of photocopying them therefore making them bootlegs. : ]

This has fallen on deaf ears everytime I've asked anyone. Is it that no one actually knows?

  Simon White said:

This has fallen on deaf ears everytime I've asked anyone. Is it that no one actually knows? [/quote

Simon 99% of all the orig labels that you mention are stamped in the run out groove!! some arnt but yo can tell the difference in the quality of the label or wax.There is loads of info on the net but for reference I use Flynnys site,he has loads of scanns and listings etc to compair boots too origs!! I,m sure other collectors have info on this subject but probably cant be bothered to post there comments cos this has been talked about that many times!!

Well thats me told then!

Thanks Gray.

The yellow Ric Tic's are supposedly 'local' issues as opposed to the red 'national' ones.

Same with the different colours for Revilot, grey local, pink national.

Most of the red label vinyl Ric Tics are boots from the early 70's e.g. Real Humdinger, To Win Your Heart etc.

The only Solid Hit boot I can think of is the Debonaires and it bears no resmblence to the pale blue original anyway.

One of the early Ric Tic (Golden World) series was definately booted on a red label... can't remember who it was now, but I believe the boot is Vinyl and the original is Styrene

Edited October 10, 200519 yr by pikeys dog

  Pete-S said:

The yellow Ric Tic's are supposedly 'local' issues as opposed to the red 'national' ones.

Same with the different colours for Revilot, grey local, pink national.

Most of the red label vinyl Ric Tics are boots from the early 70's e.g. Real Humdinger, To Win Your Heart etc.

The only Solid Hit boot I can think of is the Debonaires and it bears no resmblence to the pale blue original anyway.

Why "Real Humdinger" was ever bootlegged is a mystery - there were thousands of them lying around Detroit. I didn't get there till 1977 or 78, a long time after loads of other people, we went to Bob Mays shop and gave him a list of Ric-Tic 45's and he asked how many we wanted of each....10 minutes later they were piled up on his counter!.

Casablanca - the guy who did all the promotion work for Ric-Tic - told me a great story that when Motown purchased Wingate/Ric-Ric/Golden World the people working for Ed Wingate buried tens of thousands of singles in road construction sites.

And way before that Anthony Lewis at Oldies Unlimited - when he was based in St Leonards On Sea and before he moved to Telford - had tens of thousands of Groovesville 45's imported into the UK. And I dread to think the quantity of Motown 45's he had....his Dad worked at the UK Embassy in Washington and I've heard that some people got Shrine singles of Oldies Unlimited when at Telford.

They had so much stock that I once fell over, was lying on a sea of vinyl, put my hand down and pulled out some singles (like you do). One of them was a mint "I Travel Alone" -Lou Ragland ...Anthony also had piles of dems of all the early disco stuff on Roulette,Pyramid....every time you went there you would find something worth having...he stocked UK overstocks and deletions as well as imports so you never knew what could turn up....

Neil

Thats amazing that he had an outlet in St leonards On Sea - I lived there for 18 years and there was never a trace of an import record anywhere - tell a lie, I once found that thing on Port, The Gees, and a Terry Callier - Look at me now.

Have you seen the Oldies Unlimited shop in Wolverhampton? How the mighty fall.

  pikeys dog said:

One of the early Ric Tic (Golden World) series was definately booted on a red label... can't remember who it was now, but I believe the boot is Vinyl and the original is Styrene

sounds like the Debonaires - loving you takes all of my time/pat Lewis -Warning, on solid hit label

danny d

  stomper45 said:

sounds like the Debonaires - loving you takes all of my time/pat Lewis -Warning, on solid hit label

danny d

No that was on a white label with red lettering (see earlier comment about Debonaires bootleg)

  Pete-S said:

The yellow Ric Tic's are supposedly 'local' issues as opposed to the red 'national' ones.

Same with the different colours for Revilot, grey local, pink national.

Most of the red label vinyl Ric Tics are boots from the early 70's e.g. Real Humdinger, To Win Your Heart etc.

The only Solid Hit boot I can think of is the Debonaires and it bears no resmblence to the pale blue original anyway.

The original Early Ric-Tic releases were nearly all a rich red colour paper label stuck onto Styrene with a machine stamped matrix in the run out groove.The bootlegs from around the early 70's are of different shades from red to orange and are Vinyl with a moulded over label.The matrix numbers are scratched in to the run out groove

  stomper45 said:

sounds like the Debonaires - loving you takes all of my time/pat Lewis -Warning, on solid hit label

danny d

"Pat Lewis" The Loser on Solid hit came out on Orig vinyl.

Dave f............

  dickydex said:

The original Early Ric-Tic releases were nearly all a rich red colour paper label stuck onto Styrene with a machine stamped matrix in the run out groove.The bootlegs from around the early 70's are of different shades from red to orange and are Vinyl with a moulded over label.The matrix numbers are scratched in to the run out groove

I`ve got quite a few "Ric Tic" Originals that are not machine stamped just scratched in.

Dave f..............

More confusing each posting!

  Simon White said:

More confusing each posting!

My brain's starting to hurt...I was led to believe that all the "proper" red copies have stick-on labels, and that only a few actually have stamped matrix (matrices??), the scratched-in ones are genuine as well. Something about a very large warehouse purchase in the early days of the scene, Somewhere I have an Edwin Starr Ric-Tic where one side is stamped, one scratched! Sort that out if you can! Many also have the "T1" or "T11" that you see on lots of Detroit-pressed singles.

And yes, there were Boots as well - as has been said, pretty obvious by the colour or the standard of vinyl. One example is Sonny stitt's "00 Soul", just doesn't look or feel right.

And I was going to stay well away from this thread, knowing there'd be trouble!

Hippo.

Edited October 13, 200519 yr by Jerry Hipkiss

  Jerry Hipkiss said:

My brain's starting to hurt...I was led to believe that all the "proper" red copies have stick-on labels, and that only a few actually have stamped matrix (matrices??), the scratched-in ones are genuine as well. Something about a very large warehouse purchase in the early days of the scene, Somewhere I have an Edwin Starr Ric-Tic where one side is stamped, one scratched! Sort that out if you can! Many also have the "T1" or "T11" that you see on lots of Detroit-pressed singles.

And yes, there were Boots as well - as has been said, pretty obvious by the colour or the standard of vinyl. One example is Sonny stitt's "00 Soul", just doesn't look or feel right.

And I was going to stay well away from this thread, knowing there'd be trouble!

Hippo.

on here the peoples knowledge never fails to amaze me . ask anything and get an answer. so all send me your knowledge and i'll write an encyclopedia and make a mint.

Complicated tho innit ? What's the chance of getting a definitive thing together?

  Simon White said:

Complicated tho innit ? What's the chance of getting a definitive thing together?

Definitive? this is the Northern scene you're talking about

  Simon White said:

Complicated tho innit ? What's the chance of getting a definitive thing together?

Simon your little pic Piccadilly cafe... I love that place havn't been there for a couple of years now its like a time warp... strange crowd you get in there...

  mischief said:

Simon your little pic Piccadilly cafe... I love that place havn't been there for a couple of years now its like a time warp... strange crowd you get in there...

Mischief- my favourite eating place in the whole world ! Cheap eats and proper food. I urge anyone visiting London to visit at least once while they're here. I have a thing about proper caffs and this is my favourite.