Royal Esquires Rare or Not

[Guest]

Quick one, is the Royal Esquires on Prix "Ain't Gonna Run" extremely rare and are the copies i see the real deal, i say this because i was told that it was very rare and that perhaps these other copies are not what they seem (i've no idea just wondered what anyone else thinks...or knows)

[Dave Abbott]

never heard a definitive a few stories floating about. But the copies come from the same source as all the Fredrick Hymes, Four Voices, Toby Bullard's. Considering the amount of Royal Esquires now in circulation. no .its not that rare, thats if these ones are legit...

[Petebangor]

I love this record.I remember when it was covered up as The Embers-Playing The Part Of A Fool. Searling played it late days of the Casino.I would be extremely wary of the copies kicking about now.If you look on Ebay there's a seller with one of these $50 reserve.And just by coincidence he has a Frederick Hymes as well.I've been told they were discovered in the owner of the Prix labels garage.Yeah Right!!!!!!

Pete

[Garethx]

Mmmm... I think this a tough one for anyone to stick their neck out on. I've been told by someone that it was played at least once in the closing days of Wigan, and stayed extremely rare for many years.

When the first few subsequent copies trickled out a couple of years ago I know people paid serious amounts of money for them. A subsequent relative flood of copies has seen the price plummet - from over a grand in £ sterling to a couple of hundred dollars. How many copies of the record there actually are is impossible to say, but I guess supply has really finally outstripped demand in the last couple of months.

I think it's fair to say that it was quite a carefully orchestrated plan to supply the record by whoever's done it. Often when this happens those who paid top dollar feel peeved, and there's a proliferation of theories about scams, bootlegging and all sorts of other chicanery.

This kind of attitude often manifests itself in people who possess a "must-have" attitude towards collecting, regardless of whether they actually like a particular piece of music for itself.

But I don't know about "copies are not what they seem". Are people intimating that they are boots? To me every copy I've ever seen looks kosher. They look like records from Columbus, Ohio from the late 60s / early 70s.

It's interesting that a couple of other records on the label like Joe King, Eddie Ray etc. have seen a similar stagnation or plunge in their price. And I think it's fair to say they are all really good records of their kind (official top side of The Royal Esquires is a fantastic group ballad, for example), but dealers seem to be unable to give them away.

There are at least thirteen 45s on Prix. I wonder what the other ten or so are like?

[Dave Abbott]

seems a lot of rare 45s came from that garage! ;-)

[TheBigO]

I heard that they did indeed come from the label owner (garage or basement - who knows?) and that he cashed in once he knew it was going for big money here in the UK. True or not I guess we'll probably never know but I think the present price reflects the quantity available and therefore we have to assume they are in fact kosher - still haven't got one though :-(

[Guest]

Mmmm... I think this a tough one for anyone to stick their neck out on. I've been told by someone that it was played at least once in the closing days of Wigan, and stayed extremely rare for many years.

When the first few subsequent copies trickled out a couple of years ago I know people payed serious amounts of money for them. A subsequent relative flood of copies has seen the price plummet - from over a grand in £ sterling to a couple of hundred dollars. How many copies of the actual record there actually are is impossible to say, but I guess supply has really finally outstripped demand in the last couple of months.

I think it's fair to say that it was quite a carefully orchestrated plan to supply the record by whoever's done it. Often when this happens those who paid top dollar feel peeved, and there's a proliferation of theories about scams, bootlegging and all sorts of other chicanery.

This kind of attitude often manifests itself in people who possess a "must-have" attitude towards collecting, regardless of whether they actually like a particular piece of music for itself.

But I don't know about "copies are not what they seem". Are people intimating that they are boots? To me every copy I've ever seen looks kosher. They look like records from Columbus, Ohio from the late 60s / early 70s.

It's interesting that a couple of other records on the label like Joe King, Eddie Ray etc. have seen a similar stagnation or plunge in their price. And I think it's fair to say they are all really good records of their kind (official top side of The Royal Esquires is a fantastic group ballad, for example), but dealers seem to be unable to give them away.

There are at least thirteen 45s on Prix. I wonder what the other ten or so are like?

That sounds just like that one about the 4 vespas last year ;-)))

[Guest]

Guess everyone knows just about what i know, so my thoughts are that you have to make your own conclusion, guess i'll just have to live without this in my own box.

[Guest in town Mikey]

Remember in the days before the internet, when the first hour was spent, at a niter, catching up on all the rumours, and the rest of the night was spent inflating them to sulphatic proportions??

I can remember hearing for the first time that Bobbie Smith had been booted, at the Jamacian Club in Gloucester. I had spent a weeks wages the week before on Bobbie Smith. Turned out I had the boot. pissed off obviously, but by the end of the night I had a posse of wide eyed soul boys all set fare for a trip on the train to track down the guy who sold it to me.

In the end, I just told all my mates who it was, and we never bought another record off him. And as far as I know, he doesnt sell records anymore.

Just added this because for years the scene has been awash with rumours. But I think Gareth's pragmatic approach is the wisest. And if you are going to part with a large chunk of your cash, you should at least do a little research. There is no such thing as a free lunch, even in Northern Soul. Unless you are Craig of course, and a rare record drops out of the 'car boot sky' into your lap.

[Jordirip]

Royal Esquires definately looks real to me. I certainly don't regret forking out the $200 for my copy as it's a killer tune. Why people shout out about bootlegs is beyond me. Every single time a rare tune gets found in any quantity more than 3 they are automatically boots. Things are always going to turn up unless all stocks were destroyed or were never issued and only on promo. It's hardly surprising that a pile would be found of any tune, as distribution of many small label tunes back in the day (as well as today for that matter) would have been fairly limited. Once a group or artist's distributor or more likely the group themselves had run out of local options as to where to send the records ie shops and radio stations, they probably would sit in someone's cellar waiting for a time when the tune might get picked up on by the radio and local demand for it would rise and the copies would be sold and it would be a hit. Only it hardly ever went like that and therefore the tunes would gather dust. At the end of the day if you like a tune you pay what you are prepared to pay and what you can afford. As probable as it is that records will always turn up, it is even more certain that when they've all been sold you will wish you'd had one.

Jordi

[Guest]

Why people shout out about bootlegs is beyond me

Because Bootlegs are illegal....................

[Garethx]

Some good and valid points made by everyone on this topic. To me it's interesting how this discussion knits together with the one about Danny Moore's "Somebody New" in the Sales section. That was a super rare disc for over a decade. When Pat Brady or Rob Marriot played it up and down the country during that time it was always something of an event.

Now the record is so commonplace that it's a tough one to actually shift. I remember going to Rod Shard's in about 2000 and seeing a mint one in amongst his cheaper stock for £100 and being amazed. He just said "a load have turned up..." and from that moment I didn't really want one any more. I think that's something we can all relate to, to an extent.

On this scene it's interesting how a records' monetary value ties in with its desireability. Just because there are seemingly huge quantities of a record around, it doesn't necessarily follow that there always will be. Like Jordi said it's a general truism that the smaller the label the greater the likeliehood of all the stock being found together. When Craig Moerer found a decent amount of copies of "Pyramid" the price fell quite sharply, but all those copies were snapped up, and now it's relatively expensive again, and has been for over a decade.

No legitimately released record is actually pressed in ones and twos, so there's always a chance that a quantity of anything might be found. A problem arises when a record is being newly pressed on spurious demand and passed off as something it's not, like a couple of notorious recent "discoveries". I really don't think The Royal Esquires is in the same category as those.

People don't seem to mind paying prices in the hundreds for records like "The Panic Is On" on MGM issue, and there must have been literally tens of thousands of those manufactured by the record company at the time.

I suppose the lesson is that over time all records will find their equilibrium value. What price The Royal Esquires in five years time? Who knows, but surely that's the fun and challenge of collecting. We all have our hunches, intuitions and opinions, make our own choices based on those criteria and buy our records accordingly.

The scene would be a sadder place if all prices were fixed centrally and everybody bought exactly the same tunes. Then it would just be the same as the mainstream Music Industry. And if there's one thing we all share, I think it's a sense that what we are doing is in some way the antithesis of the mainstream.

[Guest]

Once/supposed rare records turning up in quantity?

You only have to look at the Dream Team scenario

[Guest GavKnight]

Royal Esquires on Prix. I had a little chat with Tim Brown who was down in Southampton a month or so ago at Gary Todd's Soul Shoes and I happened to ask him that same 'bootleg' question as I had just picked up a copy.

'Absolutely definately not' was the reply, to which I'm relieved of course! Make up your own minds. Nice man that Tim Brown...

Cheers

Gav Knight

[Guest micksmith]

BOUGHT MINE FROM IAN CLARK-WHO I THINK HAD THE 2nd COPY. HE ONLY PLAYED IT AT MY REQUEST AT THE 100 CLUB IN THE '80s-SO I KNOW MINE'S ORIGINAL. BE GREAT IF THE REST WERE BOOTS-BUT I DON'T THINK SO. WHAT DID I PAY FOR MINE-A LOT. WITH IMPORTS IT'S A GAMBLE SOME TIMES- AS YOU DON'T KNOW HOW MANY WILL TURN UP-IF ANY AT ALL. LOOK AT BETTY LLOYD- LOADS TURNED UP-AT ONE TIME THEY WERE SELLING FOR £50. NOW ITS £200 PLUS. WHAT I'M SAYING IS THAT THE ROYAL ESQUIRES WILL MOVE UP IN PRICE EVENTALLY 'CAUSE IT'S A GREAT RECORD.

[Guest]

It's the same for a lot of records that turn up in quantity. Once they've gone if the demand is still there the price will increase again.

[Guest Johnny One Trout]

Janine have you seen the doctor yet about the multiple personality syndrome????

BTW have you thought about putting up a few more pictures of yourself in the gallery? There are hardly any of you compared to everyone else and as a bonus don't you collect a shiney post to go towards your next toggle? ;o))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))

John

Bless i taught her all she knows about TB

[Garethx]

WHAT I'M SAYING IS THAT THE ROYAL ESQUIRES WILL MOVE UP IN PRICE EVENTALLY 'CAUSE IT'S A GREAT RECORD.

Couldn't agree more with you Mick. Danny Moore lost it's value not only because loads turned up, but also because the majority of punters realised it wasn't actually that hot.

[Guest]

Exactly, many records that are rare and exclusive are not that good and when they are available and no longer exclusive, who cares anymore? A good record like The Montclairs (Arch) still sells for quite a lot even though quantity was found whilst the Royal Esquires is a pretty weak tune in my opinion, and many seem to realise now that it is common. Not something I'd like to hear out anyway, ultra rare or not, but that's just me.

[Mike]

did anyone keep a track on the joe king 45 price

as in highest compared to current - sure (sort of) that seen it recently round the 50 quid mark, which pretty surei s a lot of difference than say what it was a year or so ago, anyone the "past prices"

[Guest]

I know it sold for £500, and for more than that too I'm quite sure. This would be my pick if I had to choose from the ones I know on the label. The punchier more northern version of Eddie Ray "I'm So Glad" is quite nice too.

[soulmac]

did anyone keep a track on the joe king 45 price

as in highest compared to current - sure (sort of) that seen it recently round the 50 quid mark, which pretty surei s a lot of difference than say what it was a year or so ago, anyone the "past prices"

The last one sold on ebay for $74.99.

grouprecords was the seller. This is the same guy who sells as brooklyn-born.

The LA dealer that everyone keeps going on about.

[Mattbolton]

I think he's out of vegas. I just got a Royl esquires off of him. Pretty cheap.

[soulmac]

Matts right it's Vegas and not LA.

[Guest micksmith]

MATT-WAS IT A REAL ONE?????????????

[Gene-r]

"did anyone keep a track on the joe king 45 price

as in highest compared to current - sure (sort of) that seen it recently round the 50 quid mark, which pretty surei s a lot of difference than say what it was a year or so ago, anyone the "past prices"

[Mattbolton]

Mick. I'm hoping so. I kinda got taken with the idea that no-one had booted it. Yet. Tho I know that it only takes a week to boot. There does appear to be a lot flying out the States at the mo. But then he assured me that it was him who found them. Along with a load of other Prix stuff. I mean it wasn't THAT cheap, but quite a bit cheaper than I've seen it in boxes for. You reckon someone might be on a Prix money spinner? I'd be interested in knowing, since I'm due to pay for it next week. Tho I might add that I meant Royal and not 'royl'.

[Mattbolton]

He also offered me the Joe King 45 if that's any help.