MADNESS!!!!!!! MADNESS

[Mattbolton]

https://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewI...4022266873&rd=1

What's the price of being a Soul collector? A lot of money and little sense. I don't know whether to laugh or cry when I see this.....

The scene has gone completely mad, and to the sad, misguided moron, who has bid £200 for this usually £40-50 record, remember you can't buy your way back into heaven. It's people like you sending the scene into ridiculously stellar price ranges. Get a grip on reality. If not your wallet.

[Guest micksmith]

MATT THE PRICE IS NEARER £20/£30. NOT A RARE RECORD-THE WORLDS GONE MAD????????????????

[Guest osulli]

Insane - I remember buying this of Mick for £4! There are still 9 hours left - I may put a bid in!

[lisahurley]

the things that record does to me.....it's priceless!

[Guest James Trouble]

Mick Smith, with the greatest respect you're stuck in 1989 if you think it's a £20/30 record.

Sure, $300/$400 seems like alot of money, and I'm personally quiet surprised at the price (I paid £100 for mine and thought that was top of the shop). But as Lisa says, it's a very special record and surprisingly hard to pick up. I wouldn't sell mine for less than £200 because I know how long it took me to find a copy.

If it's over priced we should see loads of copies turn up on ebay in the next few days. And since I personally will buy as many copies as people can throw on ebay at Mick's £20/£30 price I don't think the 1989 price level will ever be seen again.

[Guest Brian Ellis]

The scene has gone completely mad, and to the sad, misguided moron,

I wonder what criteria is used to certify someone a 'sad, misguided moron'. If it's paying well over the odds for a desperately wanted record then the Northern scene is full of sad, misguided morons, including me and most members of this forum, I wouldn't doubt!

Brian

[Guest in town Mikey]

Back when I was at school, if anyone did something stupid, that person would be called a WORLD. Taking the extreme of this village is missing its idiot, to the global scale of idiocy.

ebay has definetly made Northern Soul a WORLD scene.

£200 ???

[Guest micksmith]

SURE IT'S A NICE RECORD BUT £100 I THINK I'D BETTER HAVE A LIE DOWN. JUST THINK WHAT YOU CAN GET FOR £100 OR LESS. IN 1989 IT WAS WORTH NO MORE THAN £5/£10. JUST THINK £100 FOR A DARROW FLETCHER RECORD. I RATE WHAT GOOD AM I WITHOUT YOU AS THE BEST JACKLYN RECORD. INFACTUATION AIN'T THAT BAD EITHER. MY PRICE IS BASED ON WHAT I SOLD ONE LAST YEAR. I'M TOO CHEAP I'LL HAVE TO PUT MY PRICES UP.

[Guest James Trouble]

Micksmith, I'm not on your sales list, could I go on it please (I'm not being sarcastic)? jamestrouble@hotmail.com

Also, NO NEED TO SHOUT IN HERE WE CAN ALL HEAR YOU. lol ;-)

[Guest micksmith]

THAT'S OK-BUT I NEED A S.A.E. I'M A BIT OLD FASHIONED I STILL BELIEVE IN THE TELEPHONE AS OPPOSED TO THE COMPUTER. I STILL LIKE TO TALK TO MY CUSTOMERS.

[Guest Kolla]

None of these buyers are sadder or any more misguided than those who are prepared to buy houses that are the equivalent of 10 times their annual salaries and consequently pricing the intelligency like moi out of the entire UK market

Of course capitalism sucks if you're on the wrong end of it. Live with it or turn it to your advantage.

[sorry JT's supply & demand chart got me going)

[Guest Kolla]

Mick isn't as web savvy as us lot , James. I don't think he realises that typing in capital letters is the computer equivalent of SHOUTING ! Bless ...

[Guest in town Mikey]

I wonder what criteria is used to certify someone a 'sad, misguided moron'.  If it's paying well over the odds for a desperately wanted record then the Northern scene is full of sad, misguided morons, including me and most members of this forum, I wouldn't doubt!

Guilty

But in my defence I did spent 20 years looking.

And it seems all along others paid a fraction of what I paid.

World!!

[Guest micksmith]

WELL KOLLA-I'VE LEARNED SOMETHING-STILL GONNA USE CAPITOLS-CAUSE MY EYESIGHT AIN'T WHAT IT USED TO BE.

[Mattbolton]

James, with respect, neither you or I have the record buying/selling experience of MJ. From my own admittedly limited experience, I can remember just 3 years ago this being a £30-40 record. That's 2001, not 1989. I saw one on Rob Messer's(?) list for £40 no more than 6 months ago. What's changed? Are there really that many more people on the scene? I don't think so. They certainly aren't attending events. What Ebay has done is manage blow a misguided hole in the price range of even the most common of records.

I'll be the first to admit that it's a truly sublime record, but no more so than Barbara Lynn's 'I'm A Good Woman'. Which ought to be around the same price.

Perhaps you could draw up a pretty graph for quality against rarity, or price and sense.

We could have had this same discussion back in September when Nino Tempo was going for £40(and still is). Rookys couldn't get rid of the 6 copies they had for 75p a piece. Not even to me, who knew how much it was fetching back in blighty. Realise the financial liquidity of the soul scene James and you might save some hard earned cash.

I hope it's not too long before you realise that you're shooting yourself in the foot. Cos at the end of the day, by consenting/relenting to pay an inflated price for records, you only make it easier for dealers/sellers to hike the price. Thankfully for everyone, there are still dealers around who still manage to offer reasonable prices.

And besides, how many more copies do you think there are in circulation since it 'went big'? I shudder to think.

We are all guilty of paying that little bit extra, but it's about being sensible and realistic.

Kolla, i understand your point entirely, but similarly, there's only really ever one of those houses that you reeeally want. Not a good couple of thousand of them. And good luck on finding your perfect palace. All best things come in time.

[Guest James Trouble]

Just because Rob Messre lists a record for £40 on one of his lists 6 months ago, it does not mean it is worth £40. That was Rob's wrong valuation of it.

Matt, I remember Rob moaning to me about how many phone calls he'd had for it and wishing he had sold it for more. ;-)

What Ebay has done is blow a hole in the cartel of record dealers who have been able to push the prices of records around to suit themselfs.

I mean no disrespect to John Manship or the person who won the record on his auciton when I use this next example, but last year he was selling a Brothers Gilmore on auction, at the same time a Brothers Gilmore was on ebay. SAME TIME. John Manship sold it for somehting like £1200 (I know it was not a false auction because I was bidding £1000 on it and lost it), I then got my copy a day later for $500 on ebay. Ebay is BOSS. You actually know who you are bidding against and there is no monkey business, it is the true market value based on all available knowledge held by the participating bidders and that point in time.

Matt, if you know for sure that you can get a Darrow Fletcher for less than £180 or so, then you should be emailing the second highest bidder now and offer him yours. If you don't have one, you seem very sure you can get one easily for less as it is not a 'rare record'. I'm sure others will do the same. That's is how the market finds it's level. When demand equals supply.

If other people had wanted the Brothers Gilmore they would have seen how much I won mine for, and if they would have paid more they would have emailed me and offered to give me what ever they were willing to pay. If they offered me more than I valued the record at (£1000) I would have sold it to them.

You ask if I can draw pretty charts to show this. yes I can, but not here as it would take too long, I would have to do it over msn chalk board. if you are on msn messenger and are interested in dull basic economics add me to your contacts;-) jamestrouble@hotmail.com

Don't moan about ebay, refuse to lose and make money out of it. ;-)

Matt, you ask "are there really that many people on the scene?", and then you almost answer your own question with (if there are )"They certainly aren't attending events". You don't have to be in the UK AND go to allnighters to love soul music and collect it. With the greatest respect to yourself and all the other lovely people who religiously attend events and travel around the country, there are thousands of people who collect rare black American soul music outside of those who attend the 100 club, or go to the Dome and love it just as much as you, I and everyone on this board. If you are lucky enough to be in a position to buy Darrow Fletchers for £40 at allnighters, then sell them to those on ebay who have "lots of money and little sense".

Don't get me wrong Matt, I'm with you, I think $400 seems a little 'lumpy' for that record. But no need to get angry about it, make money out of it. ;-)

Matt, are you the well dressed bloke with a beard that I see dancing like a dervish in London?

GOD!!!!! How boring am I today!??!?!?!?! ;-/

[Mattbolton]

James,

the case I'm making about ebay is that it's an auction that many people see as the only outlet for record sales. Hence, when something they've seen hyped gets listed, they assume that there's not loads of copies for sale anywhere else. When in reality, there is. I'm a self certified ebay nut, but I know when a record has passed the 'reasonable' selling price. And in any case, the true worth of ebay is finding the stuff no bugger decides to bid on. And really IS worth something.

I don't own the Jacklyn 45, cos there are other records I want, and have wanted, first. But even if I HAD the 45, I've be doing myself an injustice by offering it for £180. I'd be expecting my own greed to push the price of a record I paid substantially less for. Perhaps I don't have business accumen, but I'd rather see people pay fair prices for records over any personal financial agenda. If only to stop it turning into a price warring comedy club.

Soul music is primarily about the universal enjoyment of the lush sounds, but of late,a growing number of people will tell you it's been placed in the hands of the affluent with a view to them becoming self styled vinyl gods. These are the people controlling the prices, not you or I, or rarity or quality. Thankfully, it'll be the likes of ourselves who will eventually win out, cos come 15 years time I reckon there'll be a lot less of us collecting and more records to go around. Perhaps we can use them as ballast in our space craft.

With regards to your allusion to 'silent' collectors, we'd be foolish to refute that these people have always been lurking, even through the 80's & 90's. I'm glad they exist, and suspect these people dig a lot harder behind the scenes of an auction site to secure their records cheaper. Probably because they are not driven by the current dancefloor monster and have their own buying agenda.

Ebay can never really be a 'true market value', since records that go for a ton one day fail to get bid on the next. If anything this is a perfect example of how volatile the market has become, rather than any indicator of true worth.

Anyways.

Yes, that's me. Balding with Jewish ringlets.

[Guest James Trouble]

Matt, I thought that was you! We really must chat one day instead of just exchanging warm nods of acknowledgement. I usually wear quiet lary shirts, am tall and dance all night long. Unless the DJ is playing shite and then I stand around with my arms crossed looking very miserable. :-S

I'm going to have to pick you up on your "if I HAD the 45, I've be doing myself an injustice by offering it for £180. I'd be expecting my own greed to push the price of a record I paid substantially less for. Perhaps I don't have business accumen, but I'd rather see people pay fair prices for records over any personal financial agenda."

I argue that it is people like yourself who are driving up prices, not the people who are paying them. If you know Darrow Fletcher is only worth £40 and someone is willing to pay £180, you should sell them one for less, say £170 or maybe £100?

If I put a Darrow Fletcher and £180 in front of you, which one do you chose? The £180 obviously, because you know you can get one cheaper else where with the £180. But you are saying that if you had a Darrow Fletcher already then you would not sell it for £180 because you would be doing yourself an "injustice". Therefor it is you who are responsable for the high prices and not the bidders and to quote yourself you are "completely mad, and ....a misguided moron" (no offense ment, I trust non will be taken?)

[Guest James Trouble]

ooops, pressed enter twice!

[Mattbolton]

I wish i could follow your arguement there James, but as hard as I try, I can't. Tho in answer to your query about £180 vs a Darrow Fletcher, I'll have to refer you to when I DID sell all of my records 4 years ago. I had stuff like mint issues of 'I want to know' on whit, which was massive back then. At the time they were going for as much as £150, but i sold it for £80, cos it was much closer to what I paid for it. I wasn't going to charge a stupid ballpark figure just to line my pockets. And bear in mind this was my holiday money to travel abroad! I sold some of that stuff so cheaply even Roger Banks took a load of stuff off me.

If i had a Darrow Fletcher, I'd think I was f*cking stupid to sell it for £180. It'd be embarassing, and there's people I know who'd quite rightly laugh at me for doing so.

It wouldn't be me who was sending prices skyward, cos if i was going to sell it, bearing in mind I would be under no obligation, I'd have sold it for £50 tops. Cos I'd only ever have paid $40 for it.

>I argue that it is people like yourself who are driving up prices, not the people who >are paying them. If you know Darrow Fletcher is only worth £40 and someone is >willing to pay £180, you should sell them one for less, say £170 or maybe £100?

James, £100 is a stupid figure for this record, as anyone who has seen it flying around for the last 4/5 years will tell you. I bet you'll struggle to find it for over £50 on any list anytime before the last 4/5 months. Things take time to find. I've known people wait 20 years to find a record. And not expensive/rare ones at that. Just cos you can't find it doesn't mean it's rare. And even if I did do the above, I'd still be £60 better off, which would make me a record dealer. Which I'm not.

[Guest James Trouble]

Fair does. But it's a bit daft to call me stupid for paying £100 for Darrow Fletcher. It's alot cheaper than the $370 I would have had to pay on ebay.

Speak to you at the next disco;-)

[Guest Kolla]

On the subject of Madness... i just posted up a comment under a photo in the gallery section which prompted me to go and look how much The Aeroplane Song is worth... I fell off my chair... i know it was quite big at the 100 Club 20 years ago but Dave Rimmer's site estimates it at £800 .

There are two rare categories

1) rare and worthy and

2) rare and rubbish.

in my opinion T.A.S. falls into the latter.

Just wanted to know if others on Soul Source think the price tag on this is justified.

[Guest in town Mikey]

Utter utter shite!!

If there has been a worse record ever, and I include all genre's and Timmy Mallets efforts, I would hate to hear it.

Closely followed by Peanut Duck mind.

And - I have been sitting on this and enjoying James' and Matts' discussion. I had spare tickets for the Germany Holland game at Euro 2004. Met a lovely couple on their honeymoon, who didnt have any tickets for any games. My tickets were going for about £250 each on the black market, but I let them have them for face value, because I am not in the habit of fleeceing people with similar interests to mine.

BUT I also bout Ty Karim Lighten' up on Romark for a tenner and wouldnt sell it even for the £500+ it goes for nowadays, so I was finding myself agreeing with both of them.

[Tony Smith]

On the subject of Madness... i just posted up a comment under a photo in the gallery section which prompted me to go and look how much The Aeroplane Song is worth... I fell off my chair... i know it was quite big at the 100 Club 20 years ago but Dave Rimmer's site estimates it at £800 .

There  are two rare categories

1) rare and worthy and

2) rare and rubbish.

in my opinion  T.A.S. falls into the latter.

Just wanted to know if others on Soul Source think the price tag on this is justified.

Can't find it luv...what am I looking for????

[Liamgp]

I noticed that someone else on Ebay paid $133 for Betty Turner's Be Careful Girl. US Liberty demo but with a worn label and VG condition - surely that's a bit OTT or has that record soared in price?

[Guest Kolla]

Can't find it luv...what am I looking for????

The photo is here: Gallery photo

and Dave's page is here:- old SKM site

Laters alligator and have top weekend what ever you're up to. Yaboo sucks to the weather - we were hoping to be invited to a Smith Tretton bbq affair...

[Tony Smith]

Laters alligator and have top weekend what ever you're up to.  Yaboo sucks to the weather - we were hoping to be invited to a Smith Tretton bbq affair...

Mmm, well you never know!

[Mark Bicknell]

In my humble opinion it's not ebay or other outlet's that hype and inflate current prices it's people simple as that, some are trying to buy into something for various reasons and i'm sorry if bidding on ebay gets out of hand then who are we to question what people do with THERE money, DJ'ing and collecting northern soul these days has become very much a rich mans pass time, however all the time there are fair dealers around like Mick Smith we can use a little imagination and try and create big records out of the many hundreds of lesser known and underplayed gems out there.

The thing is that many of us remember only too well the good old days of Stafford and the early 80's when you could come out of the venue with a pile of records for a couple of hundred quid........oh the joy of finding Sam Dee's / Fletcher for under £20.00, Betty Wilson £8.00, Empires £40.00 and many more. But times change we are dealing with a global collectors scene now, northern soul is still a big time scene and the fact is that many of the records have proved to be rare and hard to find, some are out there in mass and do not warrent the inflated price tickets, and some sell for a ton of money because they are simply brilliant records and more people are after them and is basically a supply and demand thing or rather a lack of supply, it only takes a top tune to come up for sale two people want it and the one with the most money gets it, this is ok but puts such tunes out of the reach of many collectors even the seasoned ones.

I've sold one or two on Ebay for big money......... what shall we do put them on for a quid, no i think not, often these day's i sell to buy turnover stuff for the DJ thing, if people wanna pay £400.00 for a Christine Cooper demo etc. then thanks very much i/we can get some new records.

One thing to remember like the housing market, stocks and shares etc. sometimes these arena's have a habbit in crashing and in time this could happen with rare soul 45's then we can get back to basics collect and enjoy the reocords for their soulful content and quality over how many copies there are, how rare they are or which moovers and shakers are playing them.

Regards - Mark Bicknell.

[Craig W]

Potential madness???!!!!!

https://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vie...4024029465&rd=1

Craig

[Guest]

I noticed that someone else on Ebay paid $133 for Betty Turner's Be Careful Girl. US Liberty demo but with a worn label and VG condition - surely that's a bit OTT or has that record soared in price?

Definately OTT there's a mint copy on Arctic Souls list @ £85

Stamford

[Craig W]

Sorry they have changed the starting price on it now from £199.00 to £1.99 to make me look daft.

Craig.

[Supercorsa]

Some people may thing it's still over priced at £1.99

As for this Ebay discussion, nobody forces people to bid so high. A record is only worth as much as you're willing to pay for it.

I mean you not only get some over priced, but you also get the bargains on Ebay. I've recently won 2 records on Ebay for $21 (approx £14) each when John Manship has them for sale at £40 each.

Majestic 7" & Jackie Paine 7"

I've only ever bought one record for over £40, because to put it plainly, I don't have the financial resources to spend.

Are people paying over the odds? Or are they just paying want they want to?

[Tony Smith]

I thought I'd wait a bit before involving myself in this debate. Records like the Darrow Fletcher in question has long been a collectors favourite, I can remember buying 15 copies of this and "infatuation" off Lou Silvani back in the 80's for something like 80 cents each and bemoaning that he wanted a dollar each for "what good am I" which I still took anyway as I figured these records wouldn't always be available to buy in bulk, I struggled to sell them at £3, regardless of quality they had long been known and weren't considered rare or, exclusive enough to play so therefore no demand outside of collectors (who probably already had them) ever built up on them, occasionally I'd play "What Have I got Now" to someone on the Sunday afternoon recovery session and they'd go "this is brilliant, why isn't it played?", and you go "well it's just a tape sound".

A few years pass and you've given it a couple of spins, all of a sudden there's a bit of a buzz about this cheap gem but, where are the copies now? long gone thats where! It's a pity you weren't there when I was virtually giving them away, that's life!, if someone wants to pay £200 for it, so what!, records have always been demand led on the scene, you always knew things could turn up, that was the chance you took! There are plenty of places to get stuff other than E-bay, have a bit of imagination, wade through a record box you never know you might pick up on the next big cheapy re-activation, I've done it( Cheers Mick!).

[Guest Jamie]

Slightly off tack, but hey, it got me thinking.

Matt, something you said in your very articulate and passionate posting was that you sold your collection 4 years ago.

Now, I don't know to what level your collection was at, but I know you are quite knowledgeable and active on the DJ circuit, so forgive me for assuming it was at a good level.

Out of pure curiosity have you found it difficult to get back to that level (or beyond even), and have you found the dealers you sold the records 'cheap' to willing to sell you similar sounds at a knock-down price because they remember your good nature and idealistic soul mentallity 4 years ago??

It really intrigues me.

Please Matt, put me out of my misery!!!

Cheers mate,

Jamie

[Guest]

Value is a matter of opinion!!! We all have an opinion on what this record and that record is but the opinion of the buyer and the seller are the only two that matter in reality.

[Guest James Trouble]

Value is a matter of opinion!!!  QWe all have an opinion on what this record and that record is but the opinion of the buyer and the seller are the only two that matter in reality.

Janine, you're not just a pretty face. ;-)

[Guest Johnny One Trout]

Janine, you're not just a pretty face. ;-)

Did you know that Specsavers have got a special offer on at the moment James it could well be to your advantage!!!!

John

[Mattbolton]

>Now, I don't know to what level your collection was at, but I know you are quite >knowledgeable and active on the DJ circuit, so forgive me for assuming it was at a >good level.

Jamie, I can't really consider myself either. Nor have I ever. I DJ'd the 100 Club as a fluke, tho I would like to think Ady booked me for my musical tates than anything else. And at 25, I don't/can't really consider myself 'knowledgable'(can any of us really?!), since I've only been 'collecting' for 7 years. What I do do however is draw from my brief experince. The records that I had, to some extent, were the infamous class £30-40ers you struggle to find nowadays. I've never had a hugely immense collection Jamie. I just don't collect shite.

>Out of pure curiosity have you found it difficult to get back to that level (or beyond >even), and have you found the dealers you sold the records 'cheap' to willing to sell >you similar sounds at a knock-down price because they remember your good >nature and idealistic soul mentallity 4 years ago??

You can't really compare collecting now cos things have exploded since then. And besides, I collect a COMPLETELY different style than I did before. I wouldn't have touched a Roy Hamilton 4 years ago. It's certainly true that I'll never be able to buy a copy of the Constellations off Tim Brown for £8 again! But to be honest, those 'similar sounds' rarely crop up for sale any more! Most of them were moddish r'n'b type records and don't interest me the same way they did when I bought/sold them. The only dealer I sold to was Roger. And yes, he does. Now and again

[Geordiejohnson]

Can I cut in, Ive just bought an unplayed mint copy of darrow fletcher for £40 from a guy in the US he has had a couple for sale for a while.

he says he comes across it regularly.

But I have been searching for a good copy for ages had another that I got for £40 also off a UK dealer and the vinyl was crap and it hissed like hell,

there have been a few on dealers lists but I question the quality

But I agree with all the comment yes its really a £40 record but if you want somthing badly enough and have not got the time or the inclination to trawel dealers lists across the world like I do, then you take the first and easiest option.

E-bay is an easy way to get a few rare tunes and heck Ive been guilty myself of paying a little over the odds, because sometimes, like darrow fletcher, tracks are fast dissappearing into boxes from the USA to Japan its not an exclusive collectors club to us brits any more.

My Moto Is Get it while you Can because the scene is really drying up

for example a mate of mine works in San Francisco on a recent trip to a few record shops he bumped into dealers form Germany, Holland, italy,Scandanavia and the UK all in one weekend.

Good Hunting

[Headsy]

a wise man with the money......as we all are up here,

how you doin ? nice to see you on the forum,

cheers

Jeff

[Headsy]

Ian I forgot to mention, its Duncans 50th in october and a do is on at Blackfriars in Shieldfield if you fancy a trip back home,

guest is George Hunt and a couple of Duncs mates from Nottingham plus some local lads, me and Duncan are not jocking just getting hammered on the door that night,the whitley bay lads should be there, certainly Ted White,Peebles,Johnny Brunton,Johnny Quinn,Dave Miller and a few others,if you want more info send me a PM on here or an e-mail to my home.

for any watchers who dont know ''our Duncan'' he is the daft Geordie who made everybodies ( especially Minshulls ) life a misery at the Mecca and the casino....happy days and SO MUCH FUN. !!

[Markw]

To adapt Oscar Wilde's line, there's a lot of people on the Northern scene who know the price of everything and the value of nothing. That's why so many excellent tunes get continually overlooked.

[Guest]

Going back to an earlier message, "records are only worth what you're prepared to pay for them". Saying that, some dealers will try to screw you. I had an unfortunate incident a few years ago. I won't mention the dealer's name, let's just call him Rip off. I was going over to the UK (I live in Dublin) for a weekender and saw a white demo copy of The Sunliners All Alone on Rip Off's list a few days earlier. I phoned and asked him to bring it along and I'd pay him when I get there. (price was £100).

When I got to the venue he had all his records laid out and I asked him for the record I ordered to which he replied "I left it in the chalet, I'll bring it over tomorrow".

Meanwhile, I saw an issue in another dealer's box (we'll call him Fair Dealer) for £50. I weighed it up and decided to hold out for the demo.

Next day I went over to Rip Off and asked for the record I ordered and he produced an issue. When I asked how much he wanted for this he said £100 like we agreed. I told him that the demo went for that and I wasn't spending £100 on an issue. He was quite unfazed by it so I left his stall and returned to Fair Dealer and asked if he still had the issue, to which he replied........yes, you guessed it......."I sold that to Rip Off last night for £50!".

Now someone slapping £50 onto the price tag, knowing in their heart that it's not worth that much, to me, is completely full of shit. Had I paid £100 for the issue would he have got more copies and started knocing them out at that price?

To conclude; everyone's guilty here. Whoever's selling it is going to take as much money as they can for it and all you need is two people who value it at as much as they can afford bidding against each other to hike the price up.

The only way to win is not to pay the big money and see the prices drop but we're addicts and who among us can stop buying that long to ever see a change?

On a final note. A hypothetical situation: You're in a junk shop in the US and you find a box with 100 Bill Bushes in it for 50c each. Of course you buy the lot but when you get home do you start slipping them out one every few months and getting the couple of grand or do you sell the lot for £50 each which is a more realistic price. It's a quandry alright but personally, I think I'd flood the market with them and let everyone have a chance of owning one.

That's just me. Believe it or not.

[Headsy]

let me try and explain this.....was it Cleethorpes ? and was the fair deal guy opposite the rip off but about 10 feet further up ?

cos I bought a record off rip off ( should have known better really as i know what he is like ) which I wanted and was slightly overpriced but I wanted it,anyway the seller then has this...sort of smug,another sucker look on his face and I nearly went back to ask for my money back just to wind him up.

I then went to the fair guy and spent twice as much with him,just so the rip off could see ( satday afternoon early on so he could see my cash changing hands )

if not Cleethorpes then ignore my warbling....no names

[Headsy]

oops...just noticed it was a few years ago so couldnt have been Clee...

bet it was the same ''long'' streak of **** though

[Guest]

It was Cleethorpes but I'm not mentioning names. I'm sure neither dealer remembers the incident. I did however tell Fair Dealer what happened and he replied "well that's *** for you". Personally, I couldn't live with myself if I intentionally tried to rip someone off. That's why I don't deal I suppose. To be fair to dealers though, there are five good ones for every bad one. I dealt with Rip Off after that but not as much. Gotta get your vinyl somewhere.

[Garethx]

Am I missing something in all of this? Are we all like junkies who are so enslaved by our habit that we have no free will left? If someone's charging too much for a particular record, then simply wait for one at what you consider a reasonable price.

Bellyaching about dealers ripping people off is bizzarre. No-one's forcing us to buy any records, it's our own free will and choice surely.

[Guest]

As I said in the message, I didn't buy the record and did later get it at a reasonable price. I'm not bellyaching, just making a point that everyone involved is responsible for the alarming increase in prices. As soul lovers, most of us are enslaved by our habit. Most do have the free will and choice - and not to mention knowledge - to know that A, it's not worth that much and B, it's not that rare so there will be another one along soon. It's the either the uninformed among us who don't know it's true worth and have money burning a whole in their pocket or just people with money burning a whole in their pocket and don't care what it's worth, they just want it. Bidding can go haywire and that's the nature of the beast but when someone intentionally tries to rip you off, that's wrong.

[Garethx]

Yeah. Sorry Paulie, that wasn't a personal dig at you, just this general topic.

yours in soul, gareth.

[Guest]

No worries Gareth and I didn't take it personally.

Paul