Packets - Anyone Else Waiting

[Keithw]

been waiting for some packets since before new year

posted 30th december - recorded

1 - sent recorded 7 days ago

1 normal sent - thursday

1 recorded sent - 5 days ago

1 recorded sent friday

all uk of course

when you ring up--usual things

backlog due to xmas . / snow / new working (NOT) routes

ANYONE ELSE

[stewmac]

5 weeks from UK to western australia ,only arrived this week,so im sure you are 1 of hundreds waitin on stuff Royal Mail are shite tho

[John Reed]

I've been waiting for a package from the States since the end of November. Actually, given up hope of recieving it.

Edited January 11, 2011 by John Reed

[Dave Thorley]

Having so many problems with packages taking forever to get anywhere, even had a signed for package go missing, it's a nightmare at the moment!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Dean]

Been waiting patiently for several 45s from USA. One won 20/12 arrived yesterday, one won 25/12 arrived today, as did a 30/12 purchase.

All uk stuff has been very prompt though. As usual purchase from A45heaven purchased late on 1/1/11 arrived first post after bank hol - I think Barrie uses well trained pigeons.

Some fly fishing stuff I ordered last Thurs (not from A45) also turned up next day even though it was quite bulky.

[Amsterdam Russ]

A package sent from UK to me here in the Netherlands on 15th Dec has as yet failed to materialise, but beyond that everything else expected has been received in good time - and that includes items sent from UK, mainland Europe and USA.

However, I'm still waiting for a package sent to the USA by registered mail nearly eight weeks ago to reach its destination.

I have a brother in the East coast of Scotland who has been a postie for about 25 years. He says that this is the worst winter he's ever experienced on the job. During the worst of it last month it was not possible to get post to and from Edinburgh and backlogs have been enormous. One of the biggest problems beyond the weather, he says, is the online retailer Amazon. They use the Post Office still and the volume of packages going through the postal system in the run up to Xmas is immense. Regardless of volumes or conditions, Amazon expects top service - their own reputation depends on it.

Of course, the Post Office could increase its staffing levels, and the UK should be better prepared for wintery conditions - especially in winter! - but arguing around these points won't get packages to their destinations any quicker at present...

[Mark Bicknell]

Special Delivery items seem to be arriving next day certainly the ones I've sent out recently, not had any go missing, sent a record to Australia and the buyer wanted me to send it Priority Mail which he paid for as the backlog seems to be pretty bad there taking weeks to arrive, sign for mail seems ok in the UK again all my stuff seems to have landed with buyers so it's not all doom and gloom, had a Chelsea DVD go missing before Christmas but the way we are playing not too upset about that lol

Regards - Mark Bicknell.

[trog]

Had to issue a couple of refunds for items sold on ebay & sent around the end of November & the first week in December, both sent recorded del, both failed to arrive, I've heard that the Royal Mail are thinking of putting a few soul nights on, with all the 45's they seem to have spirited away there should be some good sounds to be heard

Yeh....a nice minty Vibrations demo...End up crying.. for starters !

[Mrtag]

Just Received A Special Delivery Next Day !! But Still Waiting For A First Class posted 7/12/2010

[paultp]

One of the biggest problems beyond the weather, he says, is the online retailer Amazon. They use the Post Office still and the volume of packages going through the postal system in the run up to Xmas is immense. Regardless of volumes or conditions, Amazon expects top service - their own reputation depends on it.

Of course, the Post Office could increase its staffing levels, and the UK should be better prepared for wintery conditions - especially in winter! - but arguing around these points won't get packages to their destinations any quicker at present...

The thing is though, Amazon has been running for years and online retailing including eBay has been going since the 90's. The Royal mail (mental picture of whistling postman) is still under the impression that it just delivers letters and is thus obsessed with the price of an ordinary first class stamp. It simply hasn't moved with the times and for some reason it has come as a shock that the number of parcels is increasing and we get snow in winter.

I haven't had any mail this week yet and I am waiting for a first class package posted last Friday in order to finish a job for a customer. They "lose" things all the time too.

So many businesses rely heavily on mail delivery and yet using Royal Mail is a bit like pot luck at any time of the year. Unless I send a record out Special Delivery I have no confidence that it will actually get to its destination. RM's services have deteriorated massively over the last few years; my letter mail turns up at about 2pm (never any on a Monday); packets sent 2nd or 1st class might as well be thrown in the bin; recorded is invariably not signed for so Special Delivery is the only service worth using. Courier companies are starting to eat into that business now as well.

The thing that indicates that they know how crap they are is the fact that the compensation for recorded and first class has been changed from the value of the item (i.e. what you sold it for) to the cost value. If a company has sold something the value is the purchase price FFS! They end up with no stock and no profit when RM lose things now.

If any other business operated the way Royal Mail does it would have gone bust ages ago, someone else would have come along and run a better service. Amazon is a business and so is rightly concerned about its reputation because its existence is dependant on it. Royal Mail couldn't give a toss what anyone thinks because it is a virtual monopoly. Unless it shows that it can move with the times, run efficiently and be trusted then privatisation and/or a break up are inevitable.

[Keithw]

if someone could come up with a service that could

send large letter pkts in uk for 2-00

and i could be sure they would arrive

i and a lot would be straight on it

still waiting for the recordeds sent to me--31st dec

getting us pkts quicker than uk

so that tells you Warrington sorting office (They closed the Crewe one)

is in chaos

Edited January 12, 2011 by keithw

[Guest Dan]

if someone could come up with a service that could

send large letter pkts in uk for 2-00

and i could be sure they would arrive

i and a lot would be straight on it

We post out a lot of books in the UK, Keith; a 240g paperback goes as a large letter for 59p (second class, but because we frank them in-house they sail through as quick as first class).

I can't see any reason why a 45rpm single couldn't be securely packed and go through as a large letter for that sort of price.

However, the big issues is insurance; if a paperback goes astray it's cost me the envelope, the postage plus the cost (to me) of the book (say 50p).

It happens occasionally, and because of the small sums involved I usually don't even bother claiming the postage back off the Royal Mail.

Records obviously are a different story. Anyone trying to ship even £10 records around for £2 would surely go bust very quickly. It would only take one missing package and the profit from 50 deliveries (or something) would be wiped out.

Re post generally, it has been terrible. Round our way, the actual posties, both for home and work, are really good blokes, but our work postie was fuming over Christmas because a combination of management and the union had banned him from delivering anything other than signed-for mail (this is when there was a few inches of snow and the pavements were allegedly 'lethal').

So you had the literally mad situation of him doing his rounds with signed-for stuff while leaving general post, delivered to the same route and sometimes the same addresses, in the depot.

Management apparently also told some postmen that if they went out in the vans and had a bump it was on their heads. I'm sure this wouldn't have stood legally, of course.

Ultimately, I blame the lawyers and the namby pamby wet b*stards we are becoming, but that's another story.

[Guest aaaaa]

had a cd of duke/peacock recordings posted in the states 22 dec still not here yet .

[Constellation161]

No problems here,had a parcel arrive from Italy in 8 days today. Very happy. Mick

[Kris Holmes]

I sent 10 45s from New Zealand to Finland on the 4th of December & they haven't arrived at their destination yet

[Guest Netspeaky]

Sorry have to defend Postman Pat, Yes I'm waiting on a couple of items but give them a break with the snow and christmas period there was always going to be a back log. Prior to the snow I was sending out items second class to all part of UK and most were arriving next day, I call that bloody fantastic especially when the post office actually give between 3-5 days for this service. I'm sure they'll be back to normal soon.

[Martint]

We received a christmas card today that had been posted first class on December 16th (in the UK)!

[John Elias]

had no problems here,sending or receiving,mind you we get a different postie nearly every day,on Monday it was the female variety....i call her " post tart " well it was f*cking p*ssing down as I looked out the window I could see her doin' her round with the post laid out in the palms of her hands and I thought it must be under a clear waterproof thingy or summut until she pushed the pappy mashy (spelling?) through my letter box,just caught it before it hit my new oak floor,friggin junkmail an'all,could ave been vinyl,bloody women ey!

[Mach]

f**king Nightmare Still waiting for a special delivery posted on 24th of Nov to arrive here...so thats gone somewhere..sent one to Scotland on the 23 dec 1st class recorded....still no sign.......

Edited January 12, 2011 by Chriss

[Keithw]

rung a post office manager today

was told they hope to be up to date by 7 days uk to uk post

if you aint got things then------there prob lost

[TOAD]

Sorry have to defend Postman Pat, Yes I'm waiting on a couple of items but give them a break with the snow and christmas period there was always going to be a back log. Prior to the snow I was sending out items second class to all part of UK and most were arriving next day, I call that bloody fantastic especially when the post office actually give between 3-5 days for this service. I'm sure they'll be back to normal soon.

yes always a fast service from you...

[Mrtag]

Had A Delivery From Guernsey Took 2 Days!! Great!! Re-Ordered Still Not arrived Over A Week Later! Whats That All About!

[paultp]

Sorry have to defend Postman Pat, Yes I'm waiting on a couple of items but give them a break with the snow and christmas period there was always going to be a back log. Prior to the snow I was sending out items second class to all part of UK and most were arriving next day, I call that bloody fantastic especially when the post office actually give between 3-5 days for this service. I'm sure they'll be back to normal soon.

Snow - well yes, it has been pretty bad. We had snow for at least a week in early December (Yorkshire) and the ice lasted for 2 weeks

Christmas - it happens every year and so an increased volume of parcels and cards is fairly predictable.

Royal mail don't discriminate between 1st and 2nd class cos it costs too much, they just lump it all in together and hope for the best.

[Keithw]

update

rung a post office manager today

was told they hope to be up to date by 7 days uk to uk post

if you aint got things then------there prob lost

THEN TODAY AS IF BY MAGIC

got over half the packets/now i wonder why that was..........

so find your sorting office number--then ask to speak to one of the managers

tell him whats not arriving eg mail but no pkts -

HEY PRESTO......

[dthedrug]

been waiting for some packets since before new year

posted 30th december - recorded

1 - sent recorded 7 days ago

1 normal sent - thursday

1 recorded sent - 5 days ago

1 recorded sent friday

all UK of course

when you ring up--usual things

backlog due to Xmas . / snow / new working (NOT) routes

ANYONE ELSE

HI ALL ...SHIPPING FROM AUSTRALIA, CANADA, JAMAICA CAN AT NORMAL TIMES TAKE 4 TO 6 WEEKS, THIS TIME OF YEAR UNDER 6 IS GOOD OVER 8 NOT GOOD, MY TIP IS REGULAR COMMUNICATION WITH THE SELLER OR BUYER, DAVE

[Casper]

record came from the states in just over one week ! superb ! ... packet of Brid tickets , recorded delivery , posted pre christmas, ... not here yet .. whats that all about ?

pete n' susan

Edited January 15, 2011 by casper

[Anoraks Corner]

Of course, the Post Office could increase its staffing levels, and the UK should be better prepared for wintery conditions - especially in winter!

I was freaking out over two parcels containing heavy discs (re-worth a lorra lorra pounds!) being sent to my UK address over the Xmas period. This was compounded by the Bank Holidays, which led to a small window for the discs to arrive whilst I was still in the UK.

Fortunately, all went to plan and they arrived within 1 or 2 days of sending, as did my parcels back to the senders (thank you gents, you know who you are!)...well worth the drive back across the country to pick 'em up before flying out!

Certainly pleased that the discs I sent out from Japan to the UK last week, have also all reached their destinations safe'n'sound. Maybe things are now starting to calm down...I hope so for all.

[Garswood]

sent out 12 records on 25th nov, all arrived at destination except 1, all were recorded delivery, after 6 weeks waiting the (non) recipient of the missing record was rightly pissed off so issued refund, so i rang the post office help line because the track and trace facility was saying that it had been returned to sender and i,ve not got it, after about half an hour waitng and going through various, no f**king loads of different menus to speak to someone i was told that because i didn't put my FULL address on the packet for "return to sender" they had sent it to the national returns centre, in BELFAST, all i had forgot to do was put on my post code, now i have to check track and trace every few days for an update, which can take upto 3 weeks for them to scan the barcode into the system and my status will then tell me to ring with my post code, its shite, surely all they have to do is look up my address and post code and when i suggested this (thru gritted teeth) i was told its all computerised and that the staff are to busy, btw, i,m in wigan, it was going to sheffield and now its in belfast, ....phil

[John Reed]

I'm in dispute with a US seller on ebay. I paid for a record on 26th November and still havent recieved it, even though I've been told that it was sent express mail. The seller said in his correspondence that he's not in the business of ripping people off. It's not that I don't believe him, but I've recieved 5 things (3 from ebay and one direct from a dealer) from the States bought after the record was sent, which raised my concern. So to me it looks like its lost in the post and i'd like a refund. The biggest shame of it all is that it was a record i've been looking for for a few years and i was so pleased to win it and would rather have the record rather than the cash.

[Dylan]

december was a nightmare for post I guess this is the tail end of the backlog.

I was stressing out over a couple of purchases but they did arrive eventually !!!

[Guest sigher the gutter snype]

im sticking up for the postman as i am one......

its normally the mail centre's that muck up the work and system...

dont know why because they know it comes around the same time every year.

on the frontline we get up at 5am and had to trail through ten foot snow and ice for about 2 weeks at least to

get letters to people when they either

1: had the wrong number on them

2:...example.... just said "to maggie and dave" near the roundabout in such and such

3..said some street that the writer thought sounded like the right address

all this for most of the old bints not to even say thank you or for the hard work we put in all year....

i know its tough when those 45's dont arrive, i feel like it as well but most of the time its out of the frontline

postmans hands

how many on here tip there postman for looking out for them each and every day???

[Guest sigher the gutter snype]

update

rung a post office manager today

was told they hope to be up to date by 7 days uk to uk post

if you aint got things then------there prob lost

THEN TODAY AS IF BY MAGIC

got over half the packets/now i wonder why that was..........

so find your sorting office number--then ask to speak to one of the managers

tell him whats not arriving eg mail but no pkts -

HEY PRESTO......

most of the offices , especially the smaller offices have a clear policy, especially for packets and parcels so i find

ringing them up and complaining not the right thing to do......they dont then go and sift through packets looking for

individuals...this must have just been coincidence.......

if it worked good luck to you, but i wouldnt recommended it......be patient.

[Deadwaxdetective]

im sticking up for the postman as i am one......

its normally the mail centre's that muck up the work and system...

dont know why because they know it comes around the same time every year.

on the frontline we get up at 5am and had to trail through ten foot snow and ice for about 2 weeks at least to

get letters to people when they either

1: had the wrong number on them

2:...example.... just said "to maggie and dave" near the roundabout in such and such

3..said some street that the writer thought sounded like the right address

all this for most of the old bints not to even say thank you or for the hard work we put in all year....

i know its tough when those 45's dont arrive, i feel like it as well but most of the time its out of the frontline

postmans hands

how many on here tip there postman for looking out for them each and every day???

I gave my postie Tony Goodman, a 'drink' at christmas,he looks after my 45 deliveries.However the lp's normally arrive via Owen Morgan and i hope to catch up with him at Soulfusion next weekend.There ya go,two professional postman who love their work named & praised to the max.Such a great pity that the organisation they front so proudly,and which still bears the Queens royal warrant,is a bag of shit on an average day-in-day-out basis.Can't get the staff? Nah, can't get the management!!!

[pikeys dog]

sent out 12 records on 25th nov, all arrived at destination except 1, all were recorded delivery, after 6 weeks waiting the (non) recipient of the missing record was rightly pissed off so issued refund, so i rang the post office help line because the track and trace facility was saying that it had been returned to sender and i,ve not got it, after about half an hour waitng and going through various, no f**king loads of different menus to speak to someone i was told that because i didn't put my FULL address on the packet for "return to sender" they had sent it to the national returns centre, in BELFAST, all i had forgot to do was put on my post code, now i have to check track and trace every few days for an update, which can take upto 3 weeks for them to scan the barcode into the system and my status will then tell me to ring with my post code, its shite, surely all they have to do is look up my address and post code and when i suggested this (thru gritted teeth) i was told its all computerised and that the staff are to busy, btw, i,m in wigan, it was going to sheffield and now its in belfast, ....phil

Phil,

It was me who bought your record that has gone to Belfast.

It was returned to sender as i couldn't get to the sorting office due to the bad weather conditions, and when i attempted to reorganise delivery (within the alloted timescale) the PO phone system was in meltdown.

It was in no way your fault, and you issued a speedy refund as soon as it was requested - I'm pissed off with the Post Office, but as a buyer I couldn't ask for more from you.

When (and if )you eventually get the record back I'll still have it off you (so long as i haven't picked another up).

It's just a case of not wanting to have to wait months and then be told it's permanently lost and miss out on another in the meantime.

Cheers,

Joe.

[billb]

im sticking up for the postman as i am one......

its normally the mail centre's that muck up the work and system...

dont know why because they know it comes around the same time every year.

on the frontline we get up at 5am and had to trail through ten foot snow and ice for about 2 weeks at least to

get letters to people when they either

1: had the wrong number on them

2:...example.... just said "to maggie and dave" near the roundabout in such and such

3..said some street that the writer thought sounded like the right address

all this for most of the old bints not to even say thank you or for the hard work we put in all year....

i know its tough when those 45's dont arrive, i feel like it as well but most of the time its out of the frontline

postmans hands

how many on here tip there postman for looking out for them each and every day???

Received two Xmas cards 7th and 8th Jan.

They were post marked 14th and 15th Dec.

One came form about half a mile away, the other about 30 miles.

I once got a note through the door to pick a 12" parcel up from the sorting offfice, it took them 5 days to get it there!

I don't tip the postie, is that why I get a bad service?

[Glynthornhill]

Just got a record today Uk posted 8th December .. and a record posted USA California 8th January ... go figure ????

[dthedrug]

HI ALL GOT A RECORD FROM CANADA LAST FRIDAY, POSTED ON THE 10th DECEMBER 2010, THAT'S ABOUT NORMAL FOR STANDARD SHIPPING, DID YOU NO OR DO YOU NO? THAT A 1st CLASS STAMP ON A LETTER MEANS IT HAS 3 DAYS TO REACH IT'S DESTINATION, IF YOU WANT SOMETHING THE NEXT DAY YOU HAVE TO SPEND£5 I THINK?? WHEN DID FIRST CLASS POSTAGE CHANGE? AS IT USED TO BE GUARANTEED NEXT DAY NOT 3 DAYS! ANYONE!!!? DAVE KIL

[Garswood]

Phil,

It was me who bought your record that has gone to Belfast.

It was returned to sender as i couldn't get to the sorting office due to the bad weather conditions, and when i attempted to reorganise delivery (within the alloted timescale) the PO phone system was in meltdown.

It was in no way your fault, and you issued a speedy refund as soon as it was requested - I'm pissed off with the Post Office, but as a buyer I couldn't ask for more from you.

When (and if )you eventually get the record back I'll still have it off you (so long as i haven't picked another up).

It's just a case of not wanting to have to wait months and then be told it's permanently lost and miss out on another in the meantime.

Cheers,

Joe.

nice one joe, i will let you know if i get it back, i was well gutted and frustrated cos its the first record i,ve ever had gone walkabout, or (pardon the pun) a camel walk

............phil

[Guest julesp1905]

If any other business operated the way Royal Mail does it would have gone bust ages ago, someone else would have come along and run a better service. Amazon is a business and so is rightly concerned about its reputation because its existence is dependant on it. Royal Mail couldn't give a toss what anyone thinks because it is a virtual monopoly. Unless it shows that it can move with the times, run efficiently and be trusted then privatisation and/or a break up are inevitable.

"Royal Mail is in a difficult position – there is no hiding from the facts: mail volumes falling; a multibillion-pound pension deficit; less efficiency than its competitors and an urgent need for more capital at a time when there are huge constraints on the public purse."All of which sounds vaguely plausible. The problem is when you start to look more closely at the "facts" as they are being presented.

Take that one about falling mail volumes, for instance. It sounds like a given. We all know that emails and texts have taken the place of letter writing in this digital age. But, dig a little deeper, and you find that part of the explanation for the falling volumes could also lie in an alteration in the way Royal Mail has gone about assessing the volumes. They used to measure by weight. Now they measure by counting the number of boxes that pass through our system. The estimate for the number of letters each box contains was put at 208, a number agreed in consultation with the union. And then Royal Mail, arbitrarily and without consultation – and in secret – lowered the estimate to 150 letters per box. Hence "falling volumes".

Postal workers have always known that this claim is baseless, since it is we who have to carry the mail. And what we see is more mail, not less. Think about it. How much mail lands on your mat every morning? Is there more, or less than there was 10 or 20 years ago? It's true that there is less of the kind of mail that you are actually interested in. Most of it is advertising. But this doesn't alter the fact that – as anyone who thinks about it knows – the weight of mail is increasing year on year and not decreasing. I can't say that Cable is lying to you, but I can say that his assertions are based upon demonstrably false figures.

Or take that pension deficit, currently estimated at £8.4bn. That's a huge figure. But what this bald presentation of the numbers fails to address is how the company came about acquiring the deficit in the first place. It didn't just happen. It was the result of a "pensions holiday", which the Royal Mail took from 1990 to 2003. That's 13 years in which the company failed to make a contribution towards the pension fund. Thirteen years in which postal workers continued, in good faith, to pay in their share under the false impression that the company was also making its contribution.

In all this time the government clearly knew what was happening. In other words, this pension deficit is an entirely manufactured problem. It should never have been allowed to happen in the first place.

When Vince Cable talks about the privatisation of the Royal Mail, he is only referring to its assets. The pension fund will remain a public liability, thus continuing the age-old relationship between the public and the private sectors: privatisation of profit, socialisation of costs.

Or what about our lack of efficiency when compared with our competitors? This might make sense if we had any competitors, but actually we don't. What we have is a number of private mail companies that ride on the back of the Royal Mail network in order to extract profits from it.

How many of them actually deliver any mail? The answer is, virtually none. We deliver their mail for them. The process is known as downstream access. The private companies bid for the profitable parts of the business, the bulk mail and city-to-city trade, undercutting the Royal Mail in the process. But then they drop it onto our doorstep for the actual delivery. Even their profits are generated arbitrarily and not by any kind of efficiency saving, as Postcomm, the regulatory body, actually forbids Royal Mail from undercutting its rivals. The technical term is "headroom". We have to leave room in our pricing structure in order to allow them room to make a profit. It's not exactly the workings of a "free market" is it?

All of this isn't to deny that the Royal Mail is in trouble: there's no doubt about that. Millions of items of mail went undelivered this Christmas, due to the imposition of new and fabulously unworkable working methods. It has a peculiarly short-sighted management, more interested in bonuses than the long-term future of the business. It has an exhausted and demoralised workforce, reeling under the weight of increasing volumes of mail and falling numbers of staff.

What it needs is a moratorium, a period of assessment, in order to understand what its problems are, and what the cures might be. It needs extensive consultation, with all interested parties: the government, the public, the corporations and the workforce. Experts should be drafted in to give advice. Some of those experts should be us, the postal workers – experts in delivery and public relations.

Most of all it needs a brand new management committed to its long-term future. But the last thing it needs is privatisation.

Edited January 16, 2011 by julesp1905

[Guest john s]

"Royal Mail is in a difficult position - there is no hiding from the facts: mail volumes falling; a multibillion-pound pension deficit; less efficiency than its competitors and an urgent need for more capital at a time when there are huge constraints on the public purse."All of which sounds vaguely plausible. The problem is when you start to look more closely at the "facts" as they are being presented.

Take that one about falling mail volumes, for instance. It sounds like a given. We all know that emails and texts have taken the place of letter writing in this digital age. But, dig a little deeper, and you find that part of the explanation for the falling volumes could also lie in an alteration in the way Royal Mail has gone about assessing the volumes. They used to measure by weight. Now they measure by counting the number of boxes that pass through our system. The estimate for the number of letters each box contains was put at 208, a number agreed in consultation with the union. And then Royal Mail, arbitrarily and without consultation - and in secret - lowered the estimate to 150 letters per box. Hence "falling volumes".

Postal workers have always known that this claim is baseless, since it is we who have to carry the mail. And what we see is more mail, not less. Think about it. How much mail lands on your mat every morning? Is there more, or less than there was 10 or 20 years ago? It's true that there is less of the kind of mail that you are actually interested in. Most of it is advertising. But this doesn't alter the fact that - as anyone who thinks about it knows - the weight of mail is increasing year on year and not decreasing. I can't say that Cable is lying to you, but I can say that his assertions are based upon demonstrably false figures.

Or take that pension deficit, currently estimated at £8.4bn. That's a huge figure. But what this bald presentation of the numbers fails to address is how the company came about acquiring the deficit in the first place. It didn't just happen. It was the result of a "pensions holiday", which the Royal Mail took from 1990 to 2003. That's 13 years in which the company failed to make a contribution towards the pension fund. Thirteen years in which postal workers continued, in good faith, to pay in their share under the false impression that the company was also making its contribution.

In all this time the government clearly knew what was happening. In other words, this pension deficit is an entirely manufactured problem. It should never have been allowed to happen in the first place.

When Vince Cable talks about the privatisation of the Royal Mail, he is only referring to its assets. The pension fund will remain a public liability, thus continuing the age-old relationship between the public and the private sectors: privatisation of profit, socialisation of costs.

Or what about our lack of efficiency when compared with our competitors? This might make sense if we had any competitors, but actually we don't. What we have is a number of private mail companies that ride on the back of the Royal Mail network in order to extract profits from it.

How many of them actually deliver any mail? The answer is, virtually none. We deliver their mail for them. The process is known as downstream access. The private companies bid for the profitable parts of the business, the bulk mail and city-to-city trade, undercutting the Royal Mail in the process. But then they drop it onto our doorstep for the actual delivery. Even their profits are generated arbitrarily and not by any kind of efficiency saving, as Postcomm, the regulatory body, actually forbids Royal Mail from undercutting its rivals. The technical term is "headroom". We have to leave room in our pricing structure in order to allow them room to make a profit. It's not exactly the workings of a "free market" is it?

All of this isn't to deny that the Royal Mail is in trouble: there's no doubt about that. Millions of items of mail went undelivered this Christmas, due to the imposition of new and fabulously unworkable working methods. It has a peculiarly short-sighted management, more interested in bonuses than the long-term future of the business. It has an exhausted and demoralised workforce, reeling under the weight of increasing volumes of mail and falling numbers of staff.

What it needs is a moratorium, a period of assessment, in order to understand what its problems are, and what the cures might be. It needs extensive consultation, with all interested parties: the government, the public, the corporations and the workforce. Experts should be drafted in to give advice. Some of those experts should be us, the postal workers - experts in delivery and public relations.

Most of all it needs a brand new management committed to its long-term future. But the last thing it needs is privatisation.

One of the most sensible posts I've ever read on here.

[Ian Dewhirst]

"Royal Mail is in a difficult position - there is no hiding from the facts: mail volumes falling; a multibillion-pound pension deficit; less efficiency than its competitors and an urgent need for more capital at a time when there are huge constraints on the public purse."All of which sounds vaguely plausible. The problem is when you start to look more closely at the "facts" as they are being presented.

Take that one about falling mail volumes, for instance. It sounds like a given. We all know that emails and texts have taken the place of letter writing in this digital age. But, dig a little deeper, and you find that part of the explanation for the falling volumes could also lie in an alteration in the way Royal Mail has gone about assessing the volumes. They used to measure by weight. Now they measure by counting the number of boxes that pass through our system. The estimate for the number of letters each box contains was put at 208, a number agreed in consultation with the union. And then Royal Mail, arbitrarily and without consultation - and in secret - lowered the estimate to 150 letters per box. Hence "falling volumes".

Postal workers have always known that this claim is baseless, since it is we who have to carry the mail. And what we see is more mail, not less. Think about it. How much mail lands on your mat every morning? Is there more, or less than there was 10 or 20 years ago? It's true that there is less of the kind of mail that you are actually interested in. Most of it is advertising. But this doesn't alter the fact that - as anyone who thinks about it knows - the weight of mail is increasing year on year and not decreasing. I can't say that Cable is lying to you, but I can say that his assertions are based upon demonstrably false figures.

Or take that pension deficit, currently estimated at £8.4bn. That's a huge figure. But what this bald presentation of the numbers fails to address is how the company came about acquiring the deficit in the first place. It didn't just happen. It was the result of a "pensions holiday", which the Royal Mail took from 1990 to 2003. That's 13 years in which the company failed to make a contribution towards the pension fund. Thirteen years in which postal workers continued, in good faith, to pay in their share under the false impression that the company was also making its contribution.

In all this time the government clearly knew what was happening. In other words, this pension deficit is an entirely manufactured problem. It should never have been allowed to happen in the first place.

When Vince Cable talks about the privatisation of the Royal Mail, he is only referring to its assets. The pension fund will remain a public liability, thus continuing the age-old relationship between the public and the private sectors: privatisation of profit, socialisation of costs.

Or what about our lack of efficiency when compared with our competitors? This might make sense if we had any competitors, but actually we don't. What we have is a number of private mail companies that ride on the back of the Royal Mail network in order to extract profits from it.

How many of them actually deliver any mail? The answer is, virtually none. We deliver their mail for them. The process is known as downstream access. The private companies bid for the profitable parts of the business, the bulk mail and city-to-city trade, undercutting the Royal Mail in the process. But then they drop it onto our doorstep for the actual delivery. Even their profits are generated arbitrarily and not by any kind of efficiency saving, as Postcomm, the regulatory body, actually forbids Royal Mail from undercutting its rivals. The technical term is "headroom". We have to leave room in our pricing structure in order to allow them room to make a profit. It's not exactly the workings of a "free market" is it?

All of this isn't to deny that the Royal Mail is in trouble: there's no doubt about that. Millions of items of mail went undelivered this Christmas, due to the imposition of new and fabulously unworkable working methods. It has a peculiarly short-sighted management, more interested in bonuses than the long-term future of the business. It has an exhausted and demoralised workforce, reeling under the weight of increasing volumes of mail and falling numbers of staff.

What it needs is a moratorium, a period of assessment, in order to understand what its problems are, and what the cures might be. It needs extensive consultation, with all interested parties: the government, the public, the corporations and the workforce. Experts should be drafted in to give advice. Some of those experts should be us, the postal workers - experts in delivery and public relations.

Most of all it needs a brand new management committed to its long-term future. But the last thing it needs is privatisation.

Great post Jules!

A close mate of mine is now a manager and he says virtually the same thing. It all seems a long time ago when we used to get 2 posts a day!

Ian D

[Amsterdam Russ]

Sorry for my confusion, but is this not a blog post written by Roy Mayall? >>> Link to blog here: https://roymayall.wordpress.com/

About Roy Mayall:

Roy Mayall is a blogger and postal worker, whose blog covers insider's insight into the Royal Mail, the Communications Workers Union, the postal dispute, the Post Office, Postcomm, and anything to do with the postal industry in the UK or abroad. Roy, who is the Author of Dear Granny Smith: A letter from your postman, has had his work featured in The Guardian, London Review of Books, The Socialist Worker, the Independent and The Week. Roy can be reached atroymayall@googlemail.com

The original posting of this article can be found on the website of The Guardian newspaper:

The Guardian: Roy Mayall Says

Whilst you're reading that, do tip your hat (should you still be wearing one 40 years after they went out of fashion) to the blogger's cleverly constructed name... Roy Mayall. Now say it faster... Go on, one more time, this time faster....

Again, my apologies for any confusion I may be under, but I thought it worth acknowledging the source of that finely written text.

[Guest john s]

Still one of the most sensible posts I've ever read on here.

[macca]

I ordered 3 bottles of wine online on January 1st from a company in Wellingborough to go up to Edinburgh. They arrived yesterday.

The company 'Flavours of Spain' (excellent, by the way) were hugely apologetic and spoke of 'countrywide transport and communications chaos'.

Edited January 17, 2011 by macca

[Guest john s]

I ordered 3 bottles of wine online on January 1st from a company in Wellingborough to go up to Edinburgh. They arrived yesterday.

The company 'Flavours of Spain' (excellent, by the way) were hugely apologetic and spoke of 'countrywide transport and communications chaos'.

According to their website, Flavours of Spain don't use Royal Mail for deliveries - they use two different couriers.

[Manfromsoul45s]

"Royal Mail is in a difficult position - there is no hiding from the facts: mail volumes falling; a multibillion-pound pension deficit; less efficiency than its competitors and an urgent need for more capital at a time when there are huge constraints on the public purse."All of which sounds vaguely plausible. The problem is when you start to look more closely at the "facts" as they are being presented.

Take that one about falling mail volumes, for instance. It sounds like a given. We all know that emails and texts have taken the place of letter writing in this digital age. But, dig a little deeper, and you find that part of the explanation for the falling volumes could also lie in an alteration in the way Royal Mail has gone about assessing the volumes. They used to measure by weight. Now they measure by counting the number of boxes that pass through our system. The estimate for the number of letters each box contains was put at 208, a number agreed in consultation with the union. And then Royal Mail, arbitrarily and without consultation - and in secret - lowered the estimate to 150 letters per box. Hence "falling volumes".

Postal workers have always known that this claim is baseless, since it is we who have to carry the mail. And what we see is more mail, not less. Think about it. How much mail lands on your mat every morning? Is there more, or less than there was 10 or 20 years ago? It's true that there is less of the kind of mail that you are actually interested in. Most of it is advertising. But this doesn't alter the fact that - as anyone who thinks about it knows - the weight of mail is increasing year on year and not decreasing. I can't say that Cable is lying to you, but I can say that his assertions are based upon demonstrably false figures.

Or take that pension deficit, currently estimated at £8.4bn. That's a huge figure. But what this bald presentation of the numbers fails to address is how the company came about acquiring the deficit in the first place. It didn't just happen. It was the result of a "pensions holiday", which the Royal Mail took from 1990 to 2003. That's 13 years in which the company failed to make a contribution towards the pension fund. Thirteen years in which postal workers continued, in good faith, to pay in their share under the false impression that the company was also making its contribution.

In all this time the government clearly knew what was happening. In other words, this pension deficit is an entirely manufactured problem. It should never have been allowed to happen in the first place.

When Vince Cable talks about the privatisation of the Royal Mail, he is only referring to its assets. The pension fund will remain a public liability, thus continuing the age-old relationship between the public and the private sectors: privatisation of profit, socialisation of costs.

Or what about our lack of efficiency when compared with our competitors? This might make sense if we had any competitors, but actually we don't. What we have is a number of private mail companies that ride on the back of the Royal Mail network in order to extract profits from it.

How many of them actually deliver any mail? The answer is, virtually none. We deliver their mail for them. The process is known as downstream access. The private companies bid for the profitable parts of the business, the bulk mail and city-to-city trade, undercutting the Royal Mail in the process. But then they drop it onto our doorstep for the actual delivery. Even their profits are generated arbitrarily and not by any kind of efficiency saving, as Postcomm, the regulatory body, actually forbids Royal Mail from undercutting its rivals. The technical term is "headroom". We have to leave room in our pricing structure in order to allow them room to make a profit. It's not exactly the workings of a "free market" is it?

All of this isn't to deny that the Royal Mail is in trouble: there's no doubt about that. Millions of items of mail went undelivered this Christmas, due to the imposition of new and fabulously unworkable working methods. It has a peculiarly short-sighted management, more interested in bonuses than the long-term future of the business. It has an exhausted and demoralised workforce, reeling under the weight of increasing volumes of mail and falling numbers of staff.

What it needs is a moratorium, a period of assessment, in order to understand what its problems are, and what the cures might be. It needs extensive consultation, with all interested parties: the government, the public, the corporations and the workforce. Experts should be drafted in to give advice. Some of those experts should be us, the postal workers - experts in delivery and public relations.

Most of all it needs a brand new management committed to its long-term future. But the last thing it needs is privatisation.

A very well put post..I know people who work at the post office and the hours are'nt great and the pay not much better..Give em a break

[Mach]

even after all the probs ive had ,i still gave my postie a card with a tenner in it, its only this time of year things go t*ts up

[Dave Thorley]

"Royal Mail is in a difficult position – there is no hiding from the facts: mail volumes falling; a multibillion-pound pension deficit; less efficiency than its competitors and an urgent need for more capital at a time when there are huge constraints on the public purse."All of which sounds vaguely plausible. The problem is when you start to look more closely at the "facts" as they are being presented.

Take that one about falling mail volumes, for instance. It sounds like a given. We all know that emails and texts have taken the place of letter writing in this digital age. But, dig a little deeper, and you find that part of the explanation for the falling volumes could also lie in an alteration in the way Royal Mail has gone about assessing the volumes. They used to measure by weight. Now they measure by counting the number of boxes that pass through our system. The estimate for the number of letters each box contains was put at 208, a number agreed in consultation with the union. And then Royal Mail, arbitrarily and without consultation – and in secret – lowered the estimate to 150 letters per box. Hence "falling volumes".

Postal workers have always known that this claim is baseless, since it is we who have to carry the mail. And what we see is more mail, not less. Think about it. How much mail lands on your mat every morning? Is there more, or less than there was 10 or 20 years ago? It's true that there is less of the kind of mail that you are actually interested in. Most of it is advertising. But this doesn't alter the fact that – as anyone who thinks about it knows – the weight of mail is increasing year on year and not decreasing. I can't say that Cable is lying to you, but I can say that his assertions are based upon demonstrably false figures.

Or take that pension deficit, currently estimated at £8.4bn. That's a huge figure. But what this bald presentation of the numbers fails to address is how the company came about acquiring the deficit in the first place. It didn't just happen. It was the result of a "pensions holiday", which the Royal Mail took from 1990 to 2003. That's 13 years in which the company failed to make a contribution towards the pension fund. Thirteen years in which postal workers continued, in good faith, to pay in their share under the false impression that the company was also making its contribution.

In all this time the government clearly knew what was happening. In other words, this pension deficit is an entirely manufactured problem. It should never have been allowed to happen in the first place.

When Vince Cable talks about the privatisation of the Royal Mail, he is only referring to its assets. The pension fund will remain a public liability, thus continuing the age-old relationship between the public and the private sectors: privatisation of profit, socialisation of costs.

Or what about our lack of efficiency when compared with our competitors? This might make sense if we had any competitors, but actually we don't. What we have is a number of private mail companies that ride on the back of the Royal Mail network in order to extract profits from it.

How many of them actually deliver any mail? The answer is, virtually none. We deliver their mail for them. The process is known as downstream access. The private companies bid for the profitable parts of the business, the bulk mail and city-to-city trade, undercutting the Royal Mail in the process. But then they drop it onto our doorstep for the actual delivery. Even their profits are generated arbitrarily and not by any kind of efficiency saving, as Postcomm, the regulatory body, actually forbids Royal Mail from undercutting its rivals. The technical term is "headroom". We have to leave room in our pricing structure in order to allow them room to make a profit. It's not exactly the workings of a "free market" is it?

All of this isn't to deny that the Royal Mail is in trouble: there's no doubt about that. Millions of items of mail went undelivered this Christmas, due to the imposition of new and fabulously unworkable working methods. It has a peculiarly short-sighted management, more interested in bonuses than the long-term future of the business. It has an exhausted and demoralised workforce, reeling under the weight of increasing volumes of mail and falling numbers of staff.

What it needs is a moratorium, a period of assessment, in order to understand what its problems are, and what the cures might be. It needs extensive consultation, with all interested parties: the government, the public, the corporations and the workforce. Experts should be drafted in to give advice. Some of those experts should be us, the postal workers – experts in delivery and public relations.

Most of all it needs a brand new management committed to its long-term future. But the last thing it needs is privatisation.

I see both sides, I have a very good friend who is a postie in Cannock. Not that long ago they used to love their job, enjoy going to work, now the hate every day there. For them it has never been about the money, more a job they used to really enjoy, with a little security. Now all of the things they valued have gone, sad state of affairs.

On the user side, I send out packages every day, up until a year ago I was still very confident that every package would make it through. So when the odd one went missing, I would take it in my stride and just put it down to the price of running a mail order business. But now I dread sending records, waiting for every customer to confirm they have recieved their package. The number of lost packages has increased alarmingly and is now a real cost to the business, sad state of affairs.

Edited January 17, 2011 by Dave Thorley

[Dave Thorley]

I don't want to sound to jingoistic, but in my memory our postal service, legal system, banking system and polictical system, were seen as the international gold stardard. Sady not any more, sad state of affairs.

[Spacehopper]

dont want to talk anything up but in many years of getting and sending vinyl through the post only once has a record been lost (although received 2 broken ones)...the lost one was in last years snow...

a few i bought from the states and italy in december where a couple of weeks overdue but got here..although i asked for tracking info for one and saw it didnt get sent for a full week after id bought it !...personally when sending i try my best to send the day after payement

i give my postie a break,have left my mobile number with the sorting office,when a tune is in they put it to one side and ring me...i go in and as soon as they see me they give me my record so i dont have to que for ages while they hunt all over the place for it...there system seems to be a bit odd,first they look here...then there..then there .....and three windows with only one worker on most days!

but when my regular posties is off ive had others put cards through my door....when im in !!!...and worse still a couple of times left under my scooter with the card saying 'left under 'motor cycle' (WTF!) ...as instructed !! WTF again !...had to go down and complain about that one...blatant lie

dean