Soul Died When Wigan Opened

[Little-stevie]

Was reading another thread and picked up a quote from Campagnolo " Soul died when Wigan opened "

Of interest to me as some folk have Wigan as the birthplace of this scene, while others go back to Wheel etc, was there a big backlash among the wheel brigade and that era to the Wigan years??? or was it a hardcore with most drifting in to the Wigan scene as some natural progression...

I know of quite a few older friends who did the Wheel days, seemed to drift out of the scene during the nothern soul boom years of Wigan and come back onto the scene from the mid 80s onwards..

We hear about all the teenage thing and Wigan, but was there a certain ammount of older folk there too 20/30s?????????? or was it a total teenage northen soul revolution with the older crowd leaving the scene or running an alternate scene at the same time..

So with the quote "soul died when Wigan opened" does that mean soul died for good, was the start of Wigan the end for some with regards to the scene??

[TOAD]

when i was at the casino age ran from 14-25

lots of people come onto the scene at differant times i know some cite stafford as there begings and of course people drift back into it

[Guest]

Was reading another thread and picked up a quote from Campagnolo " Soul died when Wigan opened "

Of interest to me as some folk have Wigan as the birthplace of this scene, while others go back to Wheel etc, was there a big backlash among the wheel brigade and that era to the Wigan years??? or was it a hardcore with most drifting in to the Wigan scene as some natural progression...

I know of quite a few older friends who did the Wheel days, seemed to drift out of the scene during the nothern soul boom years of Wigan and come back onto the scene from the mid 80s onwards..

We hear about all the teenage thing and Wigan, but was there a certain ammount of older folk there too 20/30s?????????? or was it a total teenage northen soul revolution with the older crowd leaving the scene or running an alternate scene at the same time..

So with the quote "soul died when Wigan opened" does that mean soul died for good, was the start of Wigan the end for some with regards to the scene??

neither of these places had any impact in my life. i was too young.

i appreciate the good tunes that were played there, and cringe with everyone else when i hear the crap music that is always remembered

the 100 club, bradford and keele were my true soul music places in my 20s in the late 1980s

going to the ministry of sound and club uk in the early 1990s with brandon block was my wigan casino.

the trendy clubs of the day, everyone wanted to be your mate and to go with you

that's how I imagine Wigan to be - thats all

Just a place for young people.

where memories are made.

Edited December 6, 2010 by mossy

[paultp]

When I was 16, anyone out on the town aged over 25 was called grandad

[Guest]

Was reading another thread and picked up a quote from Campagnolo " Soul died when Wigan opened "

Of interest to me as some folk have Wigan as the birthplace of this scene, while others go back to Wheel etc, was there a big backlash among the wheel brigade and that era to the Wigan years??? or was it a hardcore with most drifting in to the Wigan scene as some natural progression...

I know of quite a few older friends who did the Wheel days, seemed to drift out of the scene during the nothern soul boom years of Wigan and come back onto the scene from the mid 80s onwards..

We hear about all the teenage thing and Wigan, but was there a certain ammount of older folk there too 20/30s?????????? or was it a total teenage northen soul revolution with the older crowd leaving the scene or running an alternate scene at the same time..

So with the quote "soul died when Wigan opened" does that mean soul died for good, was the start of Wigan the end for some with regards to the scene??

As a young Soul fan in in his early 20s in the 1980s

I could and did not personally give a shit about the 70s or Wigan or any other old Soul club for that matter.

People used to say things to me when the likes of Cecil Washington was played at the 100 club "this was massive at wigan in the 70s"

that was how I learned the history of a particular 45,

but don't expect me me to get sentimental about a club i never attended

but when the 100 club closes I may have a few memories and a quiet moment

[Anais nin Carms]

I would have to say no Stevie .

I never went myself even though I lived in Manchester in 73 and I was 17 at the time

Maybe Wigan was coming to its end then ?

The crowd I hung around with at the time were what we used to call "Townies" Wigan would have been thought of as "in them there hills place" We used to have fun in the city centre .

Rafters Tiffs Fagins and Tramps to name but a few the guys I was with were ex wheel guys .... Never a mention of WIgan ? or an inclination to go. Plus they ejoyed BEER and lots of it so they tended to stay close to home where we could get a Manchester night bus.

Wigan goers were an extension of the next generation of souls I guess , and they interpreted soul in thier own way , just like all the others places that followed up to TODAY.

So I wouldn't agree with whoever made the comment. Can't say that I lke everything that came out of Wigan , Can't even say that soul went white with Wigan.... as the wheel had the likes of Stevie Winward as a hero , I think Wigan went a bit crazy though with the likes of Poppy tunes being acceptable Tony Blackburn and Pookie bleedin Hudson but then thats my personal taste or lack of it coming to the surface.

depending on the readers point of view.

Lots of great soul came out of Wigan.... in the earlier days Spencer Wiggins comes to mind ooooooooh yes have to play it now

[Sjclement]

Was reading another thread and picked up a quote from Campagnolo " Soul died when Wigan opened "

Of interest to me as some folk have Wigan as the birthplace of this scene, while others go back to Wheel etc, was there a big backlash among the wheel brigade and that era to the Wigan years??? or was it a hardcore with most drifting in to the Wigan scene as some natural progression...

I know of quite a few older friends who did the Wheel days, seemed to drift out of the scene during the nothern soul boom years of Wigan and come back onto the scene from the mid 80s onwards..

We hear about all the teenage thing and Wigan, but was there a certain ammount of older folk there too 20/30s?????????? or was it a total teenage northen soul revolution with the older crowd leaving the scene or running an alternate scene at the same time..

So with the quote "soul died when Wigan opened" does that mean soul died for good, was the start of Wigan the end for some with regards to the scene??

What sounds did Wigan make big in its early days?. I attended the first night as a naive spotty 17 year old,and of course heard the Sherrys, Velours Thelma Houston, Patti Austin Wayne Gibson but these all came from other venues. What big records did Wigan create exclusively in the early months?. I went there as a soul fan and didn't feel short changed by the records I heard.

Anybody got a 1st night playlist?

[Little-stevie]

As a young Soul fan in in his early 20s in the 1980s

I could and did not personally give a shit about the 70s or Wigan or any other old Soul club for that matter.

People used to say things to me when the likes of Cecil Washington was played at the 100 club "this was massive at wigan in the 70s"

that was how I learned the history of a particular 45,

but don't expect me me to get sentimental about a club i never attended

but when the 100 club closes I may have a few memories and a quiet moment

This is a question for those that were there at the time mate, i like you came onto the scene early 80s...

Maybe the quote is reference to the huge impact on popular culture with Wigan, a case of an undeground scene going public and losing its true soul... Maybe not a reference about all the music played at Wigan but losing its " cool " as the masses headed towards Wigan ?

[Nige Brown]

What sounds did Wigan make big in its early days?. I attended the first night as a naive spotty 17 year old,and of course heard the Sherrys, Velours Thelma Houston, Patti Austin Wayne Gibson but these all came from other venues. What big records did Wigan create exclusively in the early months?. I went there as a soul fan and didn't feel short changed by the records I heard.

Anybody got a 1st night playlist?

Cue,,,, Kev Roberts,,,, Dont think Kev did the first night but HE cerainly has a good insite to records that were broke there during his short time,,, and believe me theres some sounds that are massive to this day that were Wigan Floor emptiers too!!

The original statement the geezers may have been quoted out of context or is a complete igneranus!!

If ya young back then,,, Wigan was an exciting natural obvious progression from the Wheel, Blackpool Meca Rare Soul 71, Catacombs, Torch , Va va,,, then Wigan and so son!,,, Plus all the satalite smaller venues!!

Sure nearly all these classic clubs have played some shite records st somepoint ,,, but SURLEY alll the crap that may have been played was surpassed by some of the most fantastic Soul Records found and spun by collectors and Rare Soul DJs on this scene of ours!!

Nige B

Edited December 6, 2010 by Nige Brown

[Denbo]

Was reading another thread and picked up a quote from Campagnolo " Soul died when Wigan opened "

Of interest to me as some folk have Wigan as the birthplace of this scene, while others go back to Wheel etc, was there a big backlash among the wheel brigade and that era to the Wigan years??? or was it a hardcore with most drifting in to the Wigan scene as some natural progression...

I know of quite a few older friends who did the Wheel days, seemed to drift out of the scene during the nothern soul boom years of Wigan and come back onto the scene from the mid 80s onwards..

We hear about all the teenage thing and Wigan, but was there a certain ammount of older folk there too 20/30s?????????? or was it a total teenage northen soul revolution with the older crowd leaving the scene or running an alternate scene at the same time..

So with the quote "soul died when Wigan opened" does that mean soul died for good, was the start of Wigan the end for some with regards to the scene??

Hi Ste,

Nah, believe me, there were plenty of people that attanded the Wheel, well Whitworth Street at least, that also attended the Casino, I was certainly one of them at 22 years of age, and nobody called me "grandad"

And as you postulate, a lot of us drifted there as a natural progression and as other clubs we attended faded away, eg Blackpool Mecca, Golden Torch, Up The Junction, Catacombes, Leeds, etc.

Also, what filled the dancefloor then, didn't always translate to what was being collected, well not by me anyhow. On the contrary, it was during the early Casino days that I picked up a lot of what got played at the Wheel on UK labels missing from my collection, and all at rock bottom prices. In fact, I used to have people bring me records I was after from the earliest days of the Wheel on Whitworth Street, for pence not pounds. Aaaah, them were the days.

But to answer your final quote on the subject; yes, I would also guess that for many others of my age and older, the Casino probably spelt the end, at least for a while. But sadly, for others, perhaps forever.

Denbo.

[Stevie]

Would say it was a place for the under twenties - anyone older was suspected of being DS

Friends who had been to the Wheel and Torch didn't rate the place.

[macca]

I often question that the masses were really masses. We were still considered freaks at school and beyond. A trip to the local 'nitespot' on a weekend off would confirm that. At 15 I remember being in awe of the older guys and gals, who were most probably in their early twenties. People like Brian Rae seemed ancient though, and for every cringeworthy tune there was something sublime. It's all very easy to condemn the 74-76 period with the benefit of hindsight. Clouds and bright patches, as they say here.

[Little-stevie]

Hi Ste,

Nah, believe me, there were plenty of people that attanded the Wheel, well Whitworth Street at least, that also attended the Casino, I was certainly one of them at 22 years of age, and nobody called me "grandad"

And as you postulate, a lot of us drifted there as a natural progression and as other clubs we attended faded away, eg Blackpool Mecca, Golden Torch, Up The Junction, Catacombes, Leeds, etc.

Also, what filled the dancefloor then, didn't always translate to what was being collected, well not by me anyhow. On the contrary, it was during the early Casino days that I picked up a lot of what got played at the Wheel on UK labels missing from my collection, and all at rock bottom prices. In fact, I used to have people bring me records I was after from the earliest days of the Wheel on Whitworth Street, for pence not pounds. Aaaah, them were the days.

But to answer your final quote on the subject; yes, I would also guess that for many others of my age and older, the Casino probably spelt the end, at least for a while. But sadly, for others, perhaps forever.

Denbo.

Cheers mate

A topic of great interest to me, the roots of the scene and onto commercialisation of the Wigan era.. Certain publications give us a mixed message as they all have their own spin on the subject i guess..

I know we have plenty older members on here who started before Wigan, would be good to get their take on this....

Was the This England doc and the film crew in the casino really such a watershed, did that bring the " tourists "and kill the underground feel, or was it gonna head that way, with or without the Granada Tv insight...

[Jerry Hipkiss]

Would say it was a place for the under twenties - anyone older was suspected of being DS

Totally incorrect I'm afraid...

[Pete S]

Was reading another thread and picked up a quote from Campagnolo " Soul died when Wigan opened "

Every now and then you get someone trying to be controversial making f*cking ridiculous statements like that.

It's pathetic.

[Pete S]

Poppy tunes being acceptable Tony Blackburn and Pookie bleedin Hudson

Pookie Hudson a pop tune and being compared to Tony Blackburn?

I've heard it all now.

[TOAD]

spencer wiggins ???? do you mean spencers At Wigan

[Little-stevie]

I know the mod revial late 70s early 80s brought myself and many others onto the scene, did the influx of the mod revival and the mods attending wigan have an impact on the soul crowd and music played at the time.. I have mates who said the new mod crowd were not made welcome by many?? was there ever a scooter scene at Wigan????

[TOAD]

there was hardly any retro mods there had too laugh when they turned up with crash helmets straight of a coach

[Pete S]

I know the mod revial late 70s early 80s brought myself and many others onto the scene, did the influx of the mod revival and the mods attending wigan have an impact on the soul crowd and music played at the time.. I have mates who said the new mod crowd were not made welcome by many?? was there ever a scooter scene at Wigan????

Yeah it made us stop going.

[Guest]

Pookie Hudson a pop tune and being compared to Tony Blackburn?

I've heard it all now.

Yes, ridiculous comparison, smack that boys legs!!

One revolutionary thing about Wigan Casino was that it allowed access to everyone under one roof, nighter venues didnt last too long and were scattered all over the country but all that changed on September 23rd 1973.

The thread title "Soul died when Wigan opened".....silly statement really, I think Nothern Sul was probably born when Wigan opened!

The all nighter venues pre-Wigan were little scruffy underground clubs with a tight atmosphere....not exclusive or even known to the outside world. Most of us knew eachother, lets face it we all talked a lot and made good friends easy in those days The Casino took that to another level and a lot of people werent really ready for the influx of new and mostly younger "aliens"- "teeny boppers" but the scene was evolving and some of us "Grandads" were waking up with bigger commitments, I got married in 74 so the scene for me came to an end a year or so after that.....I hated the TV stuff and Tony Blackburn and even the live acts.

But at the end of the day Wigan had a massive positive effect on the northern soul scene and I really dont think it would exist today it it hadnt happened.

It will never die!

Edited December 6, 2010 by Guest

[Guest POTTERIESPECK]

Pookie Hudson a pop tune and being compared to Tony Blackburn?

I've heard it all now.

Oh for the PURISTS Pete, but to quoate NIGE B the bad records were more surpassed by the quality at the Casino. Yeah there probably sounds that were a bit poppy we liked and were been fed from some DJs but we did'nt have the internet to investigate these so called Artists,Labels & Titles then. just our passion for the music we loved. The amount of disscoveries in thsoe days is surely outstanding when you think of how many sounds were been booted weekly and some credit must be given to DJs for continually digging up new sounds.Would imagine your're the same as me in the retospect of, you would'nt have missed it for the world.

[Steve L]

From my point of view only coming of age in 78/79 at Wigan, I had the feeling that our crowd had missed out on something special by being too young to have gone to the Wheel/Torch and even the early Wigan years.

The older lads we knew who'd been probably made this worse with the stories we were told about how good it was etc Also at this time there was a feeling that some of the "coolness" had gone with the over commercialisation/ media stories, the clothes had gone downhill with beer towels/ 40" bags and crap like Muriel Day being massive sounds.

Having said that we had some great times and looking back you can filter out the rubbish and remember things like Searlings big push back to quality tunes of that time. Wouldnt have missed it for the world

[Pete S]

Pookie Hudson a pop tune and being compared to Tony Blackburn?

I've heard it all now.

Oh for the PURISTS Pete, but to quoate NIGE B the bad records were more surpassed by the quality at the Casino. Yeah there probably sounds that were a bit poppy we liked and were been fed from some DJs but we did'nt have the internet to investigate these so called Artists,Labels & Titles then. just our passion for the music we loved. The amount of disscoveries in thsoe days is surely outstanding when you think of how many sounds were been booted weekly and some credit must be given to DJs for continually digging up new sounds.Would imagine your're the same as me in the retospect of, you would'nt have missed it for the world.

Well I don't know if we were caught up in a moment (that lasted three or four years) but I can only remember complaining about one record played at Wigan, and that was Tim Tam & The Turn Ons, which was played as a joke anyway. These people from the Torch who say they packed it in because Wigan was commercial, they forget they were dancing to the likes of John Miles "One minute every hour".

The Pookie Hudson record is one of the all time great Casino SOUL records.

[Billywhizz]

Was reading another thread and picked up a quote from Campagnolo " Soul died when Wigan opened "

Of interest to me as some folk have Wigan as the birthplace of this scene, while others go back to Wheel etc, was there a big backlash among the wheel brigade and that era to the Wigan years??? or was it a hardcore with most drifting in to the Wigan scene as some natural progression...

I know of quite a few older friends who did the Wheel days, seemed to drift out of the scene during the nothern soul boom years of Wigan and come back onto the scene from the mid 80s onwards..

We hear about all the teenage thing and Wigan, but was there a certain ammount of older folk there too 20/30s?????????? or was it a total teenage northen soul revolution with the older crowd leaving the scene or running an alternate scene at the same time..

So with the quote "soul died when Wigan opened" does that mean soul died for good, was the start of Wigan the end for some with regards to the scene??

Wigan to me, wasn't about wigan casino it was about breaking new sounds being with the right crowd, i happen to be lucky in the early years to be there at the right time, as the years went on things got a bit silly there, did other allnighters instead hence 100 club, Yates, St Ives, too many to mention.

Cheers Billy

[Guest POTTERIESPECK]

Well I don't know if we were caught up in a moment (that lasted three or four years) but I can only remember complaining about one record played at Wigan, and that was Tim Tam & The Turn Ons, which was played as a joke anyway. These people from the Torch who say they packed it in because Wigan was commercial, they forget they were dancing to the likes of John Miles "One minute every hour".

The Pookie Hudson record is one of the all time great Casino SOUL records.

[ OOOOhhhh Pete The way you hold your head to understand what i said - OOH Pete THIS GETS TO ME

regards pecker

[Jumpinjoan]

How can people miss out? Soul is born whenever you get into it.

Me, I am born again to soul every time I go out

[Guest POTTERIESPECK]

How can people miss out? Soul is born whenever you get into it.

Me, I am born again to soul every time I go out

I BET YOU'RE A stoke fan,

[Little-stevie]

How can people miss out? Soul is born whenever you get into it.

Me, I am born again to soul every time I go out

people can have a sense of missing out on Wigan just like missing out on seeing certain footballers or band.. Many people have been fed great stories of the past and can feel they have missed out on what sounds like fantastic times... It can dominate your very existense.. Or you can just embrace certain things from history that you see as positive but live in the now...

It serves no possitive purpose maybe, to hang on to dreams/ that will never be real but human nature is a strange beast, we all take comfort from different places...

,

[Anais nin Carms]

Yes, ridiculous comparison, smack that boys legs!!

--------------

Steve ...I will have you know I am a woooooman and no you can't slap my legs

Its not ridiculous to me , I dislike both of them got more soul in my.................. bleep bleep but I am tolerant person ..like I said its a matter of taste or lack of .... depending on what moves you.

I think today is the best its ever been , so no I don't feel I have missed anything

I like Joans comment

Edited December 6, 2010 by Carms

[Jumpinjoan]

people can have a sense of missing out on Wigan just like missing out on seeing certain footballers or band.. Many people have been fed great stories of the past and can feel they have missed out on what sounds like fantastic times... It can dominate your very existense.. Or you can just embrace certain things from history that you see as positive but live in the now...

It serves no possitive purpose maybe, to hang on to dreams/ that will never be real but human nature is a strange beast, we all take comfort from different places...

,

I have never felt that I missed out.

I would have gone had I had the opportunity but I didn't. But why would I be made to feel like I missed out?

In the same way I don't hark back to the good old days (my good old days that is - Stafford, Shotts etc). What is the point?

Live in the here and now - it is really quite good here.

[KevH]

Didn't a lot of the old boys,Wheel,Cats,Torch go to Wigan?.Mainly so they could say "this is an oldie":) .

Seriously,Wigan was responsible for some non - soul records,but the soul didn't die when Wigan opened.These non-soul records served a purpose at the time,defining the way forward by excluding them.

[Dean]

I know the mod revial late 70s early 80s brought myself and many others onto the scene, did the influx of the mod revival and the mods attending wigan have an impact on the soul crowd and music played at the time.. I have mates who said the new mod crowd were not made welcome by many?? was there ever a scooter scene at Wigan????

Hi Steve.

I do recall a sudden influx of parka's that coincided with a boom ofr Booker T Green Onions and Russ attempting to get back to his roots.

I don't think you can sum Wigan up as a single aspect. There was a different feel between Ms and the main room. There was a big change when the Friday oldies night started up. That was hugely popular, I think I recall it correct that the oldies night were monthly with occasional additional nights "Oldies revival" or some other revival thrown in on other Fridays. The oldies night affected the Saturady attendance. There was quite a different feel to fri Oldies night and regular saturday nights when the Fridays started. I'm sure I recall some Sat nights when Ms didn't open because there weren't enough people in.

Whatever the many opinions, Wigan was an important night in the northern soul calendar of its time, and for some time it was The important night for some time. It did go through quite a few waves of popularity with complaints of commercial sell-out with lots of media interest. I'm happy to remember the good tunes played, the floor, and the people we met there, that could in no way be counted as a demise of the scene. I'm happy to pass over the other crap.

Hope to see you out soon - by the way, was in London shopping with Molly on Saturday, she was thrilled to see your name outside 100 club, "That's him who stayed at our house who dresses old fashioned, but cool" Praise indeed.

[Stevie]

Totally incorrect I'm afraid...

Which bit are you afraid is incorrect?

I went for the first three years starting at age 17. The vast majority were aged below 20 and I knew of some as young as 14. People I knew who had been to the Wheel / Torch were around 22 at the time. They were certainly in the minority and many didn't last beyond the first year.

If you're afraid the DS bit is incorrect there's a clue in the emoticon...

[Mrtag]

I have never felt that I missed out.

I would have gone had I had the opportunity but I didn't. But why would I be made to feel like I missed out?

In the same way I don't hark back to the good old days (my good old days that is - Stafford, Shotts etc). What is the point?

Live in the here and now - it is really quite good here.

Agree Joan, Good But Fffffff Cold !

[NEV]

spencer wiggins ???? do you mean spencers At Wigan

Toad ...i think you'll find that was Wiggins Spencers .......

unless of course they were using his surname first ...like when the teacher called your name for registration

Back on original post from Stevie ..... Thought provoking indeed cos i have to admit ,being a youngster of 14 when i 1st got into the "Northern " scene,i don't think i really questioned the music as being SOUL ?

I think if the truth be known and in all honesty ,it was more to do with being involved in something that was'nt mainstream ,something that was underground .

Don't get me wrong i loved the sounds i was hearing and coupled with seeing some fantastic dancers at a few local backstreet events ,Aycliffe all nighter ,Darlington all dayers and a handful of Wigan Casino trips..maybe it was more to do with the whole scene and being very cool at the time?

When i look back on it all and have had chance to listen to the things i was hearing back then ,i must admit i've argued the case that a lot of stuff is'nt soulful at all .

Often say to people that i don't consider a instrumental as soul ....on the basis of how can a piece of music at uptempo like "afternoon on the rhino " be classed as soulful?

There was also some real awful stuff being played at Wigan and other places in the very late 70's ,all those casino classic, colour vinyl presses with the owl logo did'nt help either ....maybe people cashing in by trying to make it more mainstream.

So in essence i can see the validity of the statement but then again ....probably some of the best soul came after the casino closed .

[Denbo]

People I knew who had been to the Wheel / Torch were around 22 at the time. They were certainly in the minority and many didn't last beyond the first year.

Well Stevie,

I was one of those exceptions to the rule then. I, for one, thought it was great, especially the record bar(s). And as for the music? Well, all eras have / had good and bad records so, like somebody else said earlier, those bad records served a purpose at the time, defining the way forward by excluding them. ( I like that ).

Denbo.

[Pete S]

Thought provoking indeed cos i have to admit ,being a youngster of 14 when i 1st got into the "Northern " scene,i don't think i really questioned the music as being SOUL ?

I think if the truth be known and in all honesty ,it was more to do with being involved in something that was'nt mainstream ,something that was underground .

This is just so true. Hardly anyone questioned whether it was "proper soul" or not, they just say they did NOW. The scene wouldn't have been the same without a lot of those records, Mike Post, Jeanette Harper, Mickey Moonshine, they were great all nighter sounds.

I'm afraid I still feel the same. If it's good Northern Soul, I'll take it, whoever the artist is, I don't try to track down the singers ancestry first.

[Guest]

If it's good Northern Soul, I'll take it, whoever the artist is, I don't try to track down the singers ancestry first.

That's my ethos too As a child under 10 I listened to anything from the 40s to 60s. I was different to most children. I didn't know nor care what the genre was I just like it. Same today - I just like it which is the opposite to modern soul.. I just 'don't' like it.

Soul didn't die when Wigan opened - it just annoyed some folk who wanted it all for themselves

[Guest POTTERIESPECK]

So in essence i can see the validity of the statement but then again ....probably some of the best soul came after the casino closed .

SO IN ESSENCE PROBABLY SOME OF THE BEST SOUL WAS PLAYED FOR BEFORE THE CASINO - BUT IN MY MIND SOME OF THE BEST SOUL WAS PLAYED AT THE CASINO.

IT ALL ABOUT OPPINIONS & DIFFERNT VIEWS & DIFFERENT ERA'S.

[NEV]

This is just so true. Hardly anyone questioned whether it was "proper soul" or not, they just say they did NOW. The scene wouldn't have been the same without a lot of those records, Mike Post, Jeanette Harper, Mickey Moonshine, they were great all nighter sounds.

I'm afraid I still feel the same. If it's good Northern Soul, I'll take it, whoever the artist is, I don't try to track down the singers ancestry first.

Pete ... people did'nt pigeon hole records back then ... nor did they question if it black..blue eyed etc ...the truth is ,it was a scene .

Music was primarliy unknown and mostly the right tempo for dancers ...cos it was a dance scene too!

All the anorak stuff probably came about when we got older and became more sensible, and dare i say boring

Not that i have any probs with anoraks ...i admire people who've gone to great lengths to find out the finer details of this wonderful music .

P.s Maybe we should start another thread to compile a list of records we don't think were or are soulful but were accepted on the Northern soul circuit .

TRAVIS WOMACK -SCRATCHY ... what the f**k was that all about .........loved it tho

Sh*t i've just seen Mark fluff Freeman lurking ..im offffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff

Edited December 6, 2010 by NEV

[Little-stevie]

So in essence i can see the validity of the statement but then again ....probably some of the best soul came after the casino closed .

SO IN ESSENCE PROBABLY SOME OF THE BEST SOUL WAS PLAYED FOR BEFORE THE CASINO - BUT IN MY MIND SOME OF THE BEST SOUL WAS PLAYED AT THE CASINO.

IT ALL ABOUT OPPINIONS & DIFFERNT VIEWS & DIFFERENT ERA'S.

Indeed it is about opinions..

The original question was based on the quote of a person i guess was there at the start of the underground scene and how his/ her views to the changing times and the birth of Wigan..

Maybe the member i quoted will comment, that could give an insight to their feelings at the time..

Was this a quote of back in the day or a view looking back with hindsight????

The soul V Northern soul is another question that comes up all the time... I am a lover of soul music, some Northern comes into that category, some are lovers of their take on Northern soul, for some its just the beat that gets them hooked, for me it was the soulful content first and if that came with a great beat then all my birthdays had come at once....

Like i said before, the original quote could have meant "soul" with regards to the underground going overground and the scene losing its cool.. Rather like the original mods who left the scene before 64 and the Brighton beach fights, a time when mod was no longer a small tight underground scene that few knew about..

More view from older members who lived the times could help us get a grasp of the original quote...

Some site Wigan as losing its soul after a period of time (77 ) while this quote looks to say it was the case from the start in 1973...

[Bo Diddley]

I thought of this article from my copy of "Northern Noise" issue no.3 while I was reading the thread.

Might be relevant.....or not.

[Little-stevie]

I thought of this article from my copy of "Northern Noise" issue no.3 while I was reading the thread.

Might be relevant.....or not.

Not sure all could read that text, even with a click to enlarge

A well written and thought provoking write up indeed...

A person did post above " without Wigan we would not have a scene today",... Its all food for thought..

[Citizen P]

I thought of this article from my copy of "Northern Noise" issue no.3 while I was reading the thread.

Might be relevant.....or not.

The second to last paragraph coud have been written last week

Tony

[Ian Dewhirst]

More view from older members who lived the times could help us get a grasp of the original quote...

Some site Wigan as losing its soul after a period of time (77 ) while this quote looks to say it was the case from the start in 1973...

The original quote doesn't make much sense to me. If you trace the scene right back to early wheel days you'll find that there's always been oddball records played - no one club had the exclusivity on great records that's for sure. Also every 5 years or so brings a different turnover of people. I too knew original Wheel and Torch goers who didn't particularly like Wigan but I also know equally as many that loved it. My personal feelings are that Wigan was pretty hard to beat in those first two or three years but went off the boil a bit post '75..........

Ian D

[manus]

I had some fantastic nights at Wigan and would say that there was some great records played and some awful ones throughout it's time. I certainly felt myself questioning the validity of a lot records during the 78 period because it seemed that the balance had tipped in favour of the awful ones - I've got a very clear memory of really wanting to dance and one bad pop record followed another and feeling that the end was near. I know things got better in the later days but I felt that the Soul element was disappearing - though I would never agree with the statement " Soul died when Wigan opened" because lots of great Soul music did get played. I don't think that Wigan was alone in playing pop records but it does seem to take the blame for it - maybe as I say it's because at one point during it's time the bad outweighed the good and the joke records took over.

But I have a lot of great memories of the place and am really pleased to have been a part of it.

Cheers

Manus

[Pete S]

I had some fantastic nights at Wigan and would say that there was some great records played and some awful ones throughout it's time. I certainly felt myself questioning the validity of a lot records during the 78 period because it seemed that the balance had tipped in favour of the awful ones - I've got a very clear memory of really wanting to dance and one bad pop record followed another and feeling that the end was near. I know things got better in the later days but I felt that the Soul element was disappearing - though I would never agree with the statement " Soul died when Wigan opened" because lots of great Soul music did get played. I don't think that Wigan was alone in playing pop records but it does seem to take the blame for it - maybe as I say it's because at one point during it's time the bad outweighed the good and the joke records took over.

But I have a lot of great memories of the place and am really pleased to have been a part of it.

Cheers

Manus

Wigan, all of 1976 and most of 1977 - best times of my life, ever.

[Citizen P]

The original quote doesn't make much sense to me. If you trace the scene right back to early wheel days you'll find that there's always been oddball records played - no one club had the exclusivity on great records that's for sure. Also every 5 years or so brings a different turnover of people. I too knew original Wheel and Torch goers who didn't particularly like Wigan but I also know equally as many that loved it. My personal feelings are that Wigan was pretty hard to beat in those first two or three years but went off the boil a bit post '75..........

Ian D

And, much as it pains me to say this-the quality of the tunes improved when Kev Roberts got involved in those early days.

Tony

[Davetay]

My personal feelings are that Wigan was pretty hard to beat in those first two or three years but went off the boil a bit post '75..........

Ian D

Ian, I think The Mecca beat Wigan hands down in those two or three years you are on about.

Yes, I went to both of them at the time, and had some great nights at both.

I agree after 75, Wigan the music was dire and I stopped going.

As for as music goes it was the last years when Wigan was unbeatable, that's when I started going again.

I never did the Friday Oldies nights, but I never liked Mr M's, I always wanted to hear new stuff when I went out.

Back to the orig question, most of the older lads that I knew back when Wigan opened did not like it and quite alot just dropped off the scene.

So to them soul did die when Wigan opened, but to me and people my age, Wigan was just a club that was right time and right place, just like the long list of clubs big and small. That all of us have enjoyed down the years.

I think the soul scene would still be here with or without Wigan, even if it was on a smaller scale.

Yours Dave (old git) Taylor.