Some my say these are reissues but in the cases below i am sure they got their first UK release as below and shouldn't be frowned upon if played out on these labels.

Eddie Carlton and James Fountain (Cream)

Walter and the Admirations Man oh Man (Soul City) bet this one causes a reaction!!

Pat Lewis No one to love (Bee Cool)

Gerry Grainer I go to pieces and EJ Chandler etc (Casino Classics)

All the Shrine releases on Horese's Records were first UK release(Prior to the UK Shrine)

Ede Robin There must be a love somewhere (Crystal)

1000 wonders Archie Bell and the Drell (WB) demo to promote a CD

Other on Gold Soul/Sevens/Inferno/Kent etc and some free disc from nighters

Don't want to open a can of worms but surely they are genuine UK issues..No? Any others i have missed............

Cheers John

  On 25/11/2010 at 12:09, Nocker said:

Some my say these are reissues but in the cases below i am sure they got their first UK release as below and shouldn't be frowned upon if played out on these labels.

Eddie Carlton and James Fountain (Cream)

Walter and the Admirations Man oh Man (Soul City) bet this one causes a reaction!!

Pat Lewis No one to love (Bee Cool)

Gerry Grainer I go to pieces and EJ Chandler etc (Casino Classics)

All the Shrine releases on Horese's Records were first UK release(Prior to the UK Shrine)

Ede Robin There must be a love somewhere (Crystal)

1000 wonders Archie Bell and the Drell (WB) demo to promote a CD

Other on Gold Soul/Sevens/Inferno/Kent etc and some free disc from nighters

Don't want to open a can of worms but surely they are genuine UK issues..No? Any others i have missed............

Cheers John

I wouldn't play them as orignals, I sell all of those as reissues - I suppose it's where you draw the line if you are a seller, most of those were issued due to Northern demand whereas original UK issues were exactly that - and they became in demand later.

  On 25/11/2010 at 12:33, Pete S said:

I wouldn't play them as orignals, I sell all of those as reissues - I suppose it's where you draw the line if you are a seller, most of those were issued due to Northern demand whereas original UK issues were exactly that - and they became in demand later.

Well put Mr Smith, my thoughts entirely :-)

Cheers

Steve

Play em out?

  On 25/11/2010 at 12:33, Pete S said:

I wouldn't play them as orignals, I sell all of those as reissues - I suppose it's where you draw the line if you are a seller, most of those were issued due to Northern demand whereas original UK issues were exactly that - and they became in demand later.

Cheers Pete, The reason i ask is although you sell them as reissues the likes of Horeses are beginning to seem quite rare as opposed to the Shrine UK for want of a better word second UK issues and within time demand may build up to the point "original" 60ts issues have today for certain labels.

Where do we stand and i guess this is were the collector draws the line, with items that have been issued for example on Grapevine (late 70ts) and the "reissue" on Sevens etc? wouldn't one be the original UK issue and one a reissue!!!! are they both reissues although one has been issued in the UK in the past, to me one is the original UK issue the other isn't but taking your point neither are original. i don't want to sound bitchy here but how come demand doesn't make a record an original?

Got to agree with Pete And Steve!! But If You DonT Feel Embarrassed ! ! Then The Choice Is Yours! Just Remember If You Was Out Dj'ing And Had Just Bought A £2000 Record You Were Going To Play In Your Set And Somebody Plays It On Sevens just Prior To Your spot How Happy Would You Feel!!

  On 25/11/2010 at 15:49, mrtag said:

Got to agree with Pete And Steve!! But If You DonT Feel Embarrassed ! ! Then The Choice Is Yours! Just Remember If You Was Out Dj'ing And Had Just Bought A £2000 Record You Were Going To Play In Your Set And Somebody Plays It On Sevens just Prior To Your spot How Happy Would You Feel!!

i agree with whats said. these records are ok for the house but not for playing out. let the guys who have real ones play em. plenty of cheaper originals to play out

dave

  On 25/11/2010 at 16:30, dave pinch said:

i agree with whats said. these records are ok for the house but not for playing out. let the guys who have real ones play em. plenty of cheaper originals to play out

dave

I wasn't really commenting on the playing out side, just whether they were UK Originals, but you're right up to a point; I've alsways said if it's the local dance round your handbag night, it doesn't matter what it's played off, but as you get to the more serious end of the scene, absolutely spot on Dave.

....but it's ok to play the 'Kent 100 Club Anniversary' 45s?? I've heard these at serious nights. I suppose it's different for 'previously unissued' UK 45s?

Some mentioned by Nocker will be fetching top dollar in the future (well some of the Grapevine 70's series already!).

Edited November 25, 201014 yr by Soul-Slider

Actually the UK Cream 4 Perfections Inst. on the flipside of the vocal is unreleased....

Interesting as Im having a ding dong with a seller on Ebay about listings written to decive!

The showstoppers (aint nothing but a house party) on Inferno has an unreleased b-side which is actually very good. Unreleased things legitimately released under licensed are ok to play out.

Sorry Pete - dont agree about the handbags situation. If I went to one of those nights offering to DJ but Ive only got Cds or a laptop Id get told @ Sorry mate we only play vinyl here which is the same argument principle as playing originals only! You cant have all your cake and eat it!

WE were not very good last saturday but Wolves were worse!

some aren't UK issues, simply bootlegs.

  On 25/11/2010 at 17:47, Soul-Slider said:

....but it's ok to play the 'Kent 100 Club Anniversary' 45s?? I've heard these at serious nights. I suppose it's different for 'previously unissued' UK 45s?

Some mentioned by Nocker will be fetching top dollar in the future (well some of the Grapevine 70's series already!).

If it was previously unreleased and a legitimate release then play it. I wouldn't play something that is released due to demand of the Northern scene where an original 60's US release exists.

I remember someone playing the grapevine release of Bobby Rich - Theres A Girl Somewhere at a venue where the next DJ on had the original and wasn't very happy

Why not get a cd player as well for some of the unreleased stuff that has made it to cd, saves the cost of a carver

I remember someone playing the grapevine release of Bobby Rich - Theres A Girl Somewhere at a venue where the next DJ on had the original and wasn't very happy

I could be wrong but I think Grapevine issued those 45s for people to plat at home or in clubs. If someone is unhappy that they have the original but now anyone can spin it then my advice is to get over themselves and maybe find something else to play. Bobby Rich? Not exactly a new record is it?

I'd agree that just because it looks like a UK issued 45 it's not certain to be a legal issue but when it is I can't see what ther fuss is about.

ROD

You don't need anybodys permission on here to play or not to play a record, get a life and play what you want.....

  On 25/11/2010 at 15:49, mrtag said:

Got to agree with Pete And Steve!! But If You DonT Feel Embarrassed ! ! Then The Choice Is Yours! Just Remember If You Was Out Dj'ing And Had Just Bought A £2000 Record You Were Going To Play In Your Set And Somebody Plays It On Sevens just Prior To Your spot How Happy Would You Feel!!

So is it the outlay of 2k that would hack you off or the fact that people were dancing to a bootleg? Would anyone be able to tell without looking at the record?

Collect originals by all means, I have done, but if people want to have a dance to a good tune it really doesn't matter what format it is on.

If the night is all about playing original vinyl then the situation you describe wouldn't occur unless the promoter was a duff one.

Nocker, there was a thread a couple of years ago about 1st issue 7" UK singles, that had previously been unreleased or US only. Anyway you may find it interesting, then again maybe not .

  On 27/11/2010 at 11:44, paultp said:

So is it the outlay of 2k that would hack you off or the fact that people were dancing to a bootleg? Would anyone be able to tell without looking at the record?

Collect originals by all means, I have done, but if people want to have a dance to a good tune it really doesn't matter what format it is on.

If the night is all about playing original vinyl then the situation you describe wouldn't occur unless the promoter was a duff one.

The 2k Was An Out Of The Blue Figure ! ! It's All About Principles If A Night Is Advertised As OVO Then Original Vinyl It Has To Be Not Some 45 On A British Label To Cater For The N/Soul Demand Of The Original ! ! Unless They Don't Mind Being Paid In Monopoly Money Then It's A Different Scenario, Just mho of Course ! !

Thanks guys for the reply's and views, but just to get back to my first points My question isn't about bootlegs or £2k sounds which are no doubt originals or if what i am asking should be played at top nights etc. as everyone knows that's where demand is built up as a result of top dollar sounds as it should be.

The point i am trying to make is this..

Some records as per my original list are first UK issues (original UK issue) and should be used at local do's without prejudice. As people on here have stated some Grapevine singles, an example is Oh Happy Day, Flame and King and the bold ones goes in excess of 50 quid and rightly so as it is an in demand UK original, another example is Al Williams on Grapevine also a UK original but the sevens isn't as it has had a UK issue before. As for Houseparty Inst on Cream isn't an original as it has been reissued on a number of occasions on Beacon all be it with a different "b" side.

Justice for UK originals says I!!!!

Just to reiterate, and i am not trying t sell anything here especially any Grapevine singles but this is how i feel. If its a first issue UK it can be referred to as an original. I would be interested to know what Neil Rustons view is on some of the stuff he has released in the past as in my view they are UK originals and i bet he feels the same way too

Common sense I think.First UK pressings on Action/Black Capitol/Orange CBS/Yellow Direction/B&C/MGM etc etc ....the unreleased stuff on Grapevine etc.If you haven't got the records and have to rely on Sevens reissues,Grapevine reissues,Destiny,Stardust etc then I think you should be employing someone who has made the time and effort to seek out and buy the originals.There's loads on here who would play for a nominal fee.It's a bit heartless going to a northern gig and seeing someone dj from a cd trip to the northern section in HMV and almost as bad using reissues and pressings

Edited November 27, 201014 yr by wiggyflat

  On 27/11/2010 at 21:02, wiggyflat said:

Common sense I think.First UK pressings on Action/Black Capitol/Orange CBS/Yellow Direction/B&C/MGM etc etc ....the unreleased stuff on Grapevine etc.If you haven't got the records and have to rely on Sevens reissues,Grapevine reissues,Destiny,Stardust etc then I think you should be employing someone who has made the time and effort to seek out and buy the originals.There's loads on here who would play for a nominal fee.It's a bit heartless going to a northern gig and seeing someone dj from a cd trip to the northern section in HMV and almost as bad using reissues and pressings

Again I am not saying anything about CDs, boots, reissues or who plays what, where or what for. Its about a first UK issue of a track that hasn't been issued in the UK before. And again some Grapevine, Destiny etc fit the category i am stating, forget Capitol, Action and the others i know these are 60ts originals as per our acceptance.

Am i the only one who believes some of the tracks i have highlighted are UK originals, if i am thanks for listening and I'll get me coat?

Cheers John

  On 27/11/2010 at 21:02, wiggyflat said:

Common sense I think.First UK pressings on Action/Black Capitol/Orange CBS/Yellow Direction/B&C/MGM etc etc ....the unreleased stuff on Grapevine etc.If you haven't got the records and have to rely on Sevens reissues,Grapevine reissues,Destiny,Stardust etc then I think you should be employing someone who has made the time and effort to seek out and buy the originals.There's loads on here who would play for a nominal fee.It's a bit heartless going to a northern gig and seeing someone dj from a cd trip to the northern section in HMV and almost as bad using reissues and pressings

Bravo ! ! That Man :yes: :yes: :yes:

  On 25/11/2010 at 12:09, Nocker said:

Some my say these are reissues but in the cases below i am sure they got their first UK release as below and shouldn't be frowned upon if played out on these labels.

Eddie Carlton and James Fountain (Cream)

Walter and the Admirations Man oh Man (Soul City) bet this one causes a reaction!!

Pat Lewis No one to love (Bee Cool)

Gerry Grainer I go to pieces and EJ Chandler etc (Casino Classics)

All the Shrine releases on Horese's Records were first UK release(Prior to the UK Shrine)

Ede Robin There must be a love somewhere (Crystal)

1000 wonders Archie Bell and the Drell (WB) demo to promote a CD

Other on Gold Soul/Sevens/Inferno/Kent etc and some free disc from nighters

Don't want to open a can of worms but surely they are genuine UK issues..No? Any others i have missed............

Cheers John

I personally would not class these 45s as bona fide e originals

they are definitely not be in my originals collection

the subject has been done on here loads

Edited November 29, 201014 yr by mossy