Record Mountain Even Bigger

[Mark Bicknell]

Just had a peek on Ebay as I've not been on for ages and it's a wash with some very nice records many of which seem to be the top end prices many 'buy it now' do these records sell or do they just go round in circles? seems like the record moutain is twice as big as it was last year and it was huge then, made me think about selling prices and I will certainly be reviewing mine in the future, the amount of records out there is scary as you only have to look on here in the sales section it's mental, then add Ebay in the mix, record dealers worldwide, sure there are certain records which will always hold their value and some still seem to shock when they come up on auctions but the bigger picture suggests that the £50.00 to £500.00 records are getting a little tuffer to sell and Ebay for example seems to be full of those, there are many other factors which come into play of course, money is tight still for many people which certainly in many cases makes it a buyers market what does concern me as time passes say in 5/10 years time is this mountain of records going to be the size of Everest if it ain't already? as people deside to sell up which of late seems to be a bit of a trend which makes even more records avaiable on the open market.

Sure there will always be collectors but to what degree? will some records still command top end four figure sums? or do we just simply do what we do at whatever level and capacity and just enjoy it? at the end of the day it's about the tune or is collecting rare soul records more than that? is it about kudos, owning something that very few have? or is it siimply the desire and passion to own the records at whatever cost?

I've stated on here that I no longer have the desire of the chase nor the money to really do it justice, I still however enjoy a good tune which I'm sure is the case for many other people, I've been around long enough to know that a big price tag does not always mean a good record, for me something like The Intentions - Don't Forget That I Love You (Philips) leaves the likes of Antellects - Love Slave (Flodavieur) stone cold, chalk and cheese in the money stakes £50.00 against £3/4.000 but in terms of floating my boat no contest, horses for courses and taste and opinion is varried and rightly so but would some of the big ticket items be so highly desired if they were twenty quid records? value should really not come into it as a good record is a good record simple as, Four Tracks, Royal Esquires, Dream Team etc. good records when they were rare and hard to find and certainly good records when they turned up in quantity not exclusive anymore perhaps but still the same production values and quality, slightly gone off my original point here but all part of the bigger picture.

Funny old game this record lark or should I say SOUL lark because that's what it's about really is this beautiful, wonderful, sexy music we call Soul, it may have many styles well certainly within the rare soul scene but the fact is you simply can't beat an artist with a pair of pipes that levels you and leaves you begging for more no matter if the records cost a fiver or five grand it should make no difference and between us I'm bloody sure we can keep this record mountain from getting any bigger well certainly for the time being anyway.

Regards - Mark Bicknell.

Edited November 19, 2010 by Mark Bicknell

[Jordirip]

You can't beat the feeling of holding a piece of black American history and staring at the label and imagining it spitting off the press 30 - 40 years ago, letting yourself be transported to a distant time and place where a group of guys were in a studio singing and playing their hearts out, hoping this recording might just get them some fame and money. And here you are down the strange path of history, actually holding the very thing that they made, which never did get them fame and money but has definately bought joy to many people unknown to the the group who made it.

Jordi (bored at work )

[paultp]

I sold some stuff on ebay recently, something I haven't done for a while. I listed them at the minimum I wanted for them which was generally well below book price.

Some sold for what I listed them at, some didn't sell and some sold for twice what I expected them to sell for.

I just wish I could work out which records were going to do what before listing them!

[NEV]

You can't beat the feeling of holding a piece of black American history and staring at the label and imagining it spitting off the press 30 - 40 years ago, letting yourself be transported to a distant time and place where a group of guys were in a studio singing and playing their hearts out, hoping this recording might just get them some fame and money. And here you are down the strange path of history, actually holding the very thing that they made, which never did get them fame and money but has definately bought joy to many people unknown to the the group who made it.

Jordi (bored at work )

Hi Jordi ...........bored at work ...????? do they let you smoke at work

[KevH]

They'll all be landfill soon Mark anyway.Here to help.

[Mark Bicknell]

They'll all be landfill soon Mark anyway.Here to help.

Now that will be some hole lol

Mark

[Jordirip]

Hi Jordi ...........bored at work ...????? do they let you smoke at work

Get some work done Nev.

[KevH]

Now that will be some hole lol

Mark

Guess who'll be driving the JCB???

[Dylan]

I sold some stuff on ebay recently, something I haven't done for a while. I listed them at the minimum I wanted for them which was generally well below book price.

Some sold for what I listed them at, some didn't sell and some sold for twice what I expected them to sell for.

I just wish I could work out which records were going to do what before listing them!

thats exactly what I kep trying to get my head round. I've come to the conclusion ther is just no point even trying just go along with it all

it all adds to the fun.

[Corbett80]

Ebay shook it all up it would seem

[Mrtag]

Ebay shook it all up it would seem

Very True ! !

[Guest]

Just had a peek on Ebay as I've not been on for ages and it's a wash with some very nice records many of which seem to be the top end prices many 'buy it now' do these records sell or do they just go round in circles? seems like the record moutain is twice as big as it was last year and it was huge then, made me think about selling prices and I will certainly be reviewing mine in the future, the amount of records out there is scary as you only have to look on here in the sales section it's mental, then add Ebay in the mix, record dealers worldwide, sure there are certain records which will always hold their value and some still seem to shock when they come up on auctions but the bigger picture suggests that the £50.00 to £500.00 records are getting a little tuffer to sell and Ebay for example seems to be full of those, there are many other factors which come into play of course, money is tight still for many people which certainly in many cases makes it a buyers market what does concern me as time passes say in 5/10 years time is this mountain of records going to be the size of Everest if it ain't already? as people deside to sell up which of late seems to be a bit of a trend which makes even more records avaiable on the open market.

Sure there will always be collectors but to what degree? will some records still command top end four figure sums? or do we just simply do what we do at whatever level and capacity and just enjoy it? at the end of the day it's about the tune or is collecting rare soul records more than that? is it about kudos, owning something that very few have? or is it siimply the desire and passion to own the records at whatever cost?

I've stated on here that I no longer have the desire of the chase nor the money to really do it justice, I still however enjoy a good tune which I'm sure is the case for many other people, I've been around long enough to know that a big price tag does not always mean a good record, for me something like The Intentions - Don't Forget That I Love You (Philips) leaves the likes of Antellects - Love Slave (Flodavieur) stone cold, chalk and cheese in the money stakes £50.00 against £3/4.000 but in terms of floating my boat no contest, horses for courses and taste and opinion is varried and rightly so but would some of the big ticket items be so highly desired if they were twenty quid records? value should really not come into it as a good record is a good record simple as, Four Tracks, Royal Esquires, Dream Team etc. good records when they were rare and hard to find and certainly good records when they turned up in quantity not exclusive anymore perhaps but still the same production values and quality, slightly gone off my original point here but all part of the bigger picture.

Funny old game this record lark or should I say SOUL lark because that's what it's about really is this beautiful, wonderful, sexy music we call Soul, it may have many styles well certainly within the rare soul scene but the fact is you simply can't beat an artist with a pair of pipes that levels you and leaves you begging for more no matter if the records cost a fiver or five grand it should make no difference and between us I'm bloody sure we can keep this record mountain from getting any bigger well certainly for the time being anyway.

Regards - Mark Bicknell.

I think from a collecting point of view I am personally pleased that Soul records are generally cheaper than they were say 6 years ago.

I can buy more records. And I do love to collect records.

As far as the dying scene and people selling up , well I collect ska n reggae 45s and there is no ska n reggae scene in north wales, no clubs, a couple of collectors

but the price of the original jamaican and uk 45s has been going forever upwards.

why ? Because this music is historical and quality - it has a global fan base of thousands - armchair collectors like me !

and this is where Soul music will probably end up in my opinion !

I personally hope collectors in the future will be interested in finding out about the Labels and the Producers more so than than a DJ and where it was played.

I don't think that will be that important in 15 years time, but the soul music will be just the same !

There will be still so much Soul collecting going on even after the "Northern Soul night scene" has quietened down to nothing. IMO

The quality of the music will see to that !

Just like us Jamaican collectors!

We don't need a scene - we just need ourselves - our own taste - and our own records

leave us alone !

[Prophonics 2029]

One minute they are 2 rare the next there is to many about! just no pleasing people.

[Guest]

One minute they are 2 rare the next there is to many about! just no pleasing people.

but at the moment we are dealing with djs demand on certain 45s which is always pushing prices up

on certain 45s that may be fashionable on this scene.

if i was a jobbing dj and was getting asked for a record every week I would have to get a copy at any cost !

when there is hardly a scene left - all you will have is collectors demand

just collectors fans favs !

This scene is 15 years from that ! IMO

Its like that right now for Jamaican Ska n Rocksteady collectors

there is mostly no scene, hardly any all nighters, just loads of worldwide collectors

swapping podcasts and cds and trying to get all our shit for as cheap as we can !

because it is really all about collecting the music at the end of the day !

Sometimes on the Soul scene you get a bit lost with all the politics ! IMO

Oldies v newies v rnb etc etc etc

All that spoils this moment in time ! - This is everyone's last few years on the UK Northern Soul Scene !

m

Edited November 20, 2010 by mossy

[Anoraks Corner]

Ebay shook it all up it would seem

True, and alongside that the easy reference tool that is Popsike.Couple those with the here-to-stay poor economic climate and methinks the price printed guides are looking more and more out of touch...but then again as soon as something goes into print it becomes out of date, so to speak, so this is NOT knocking the price guides.

[Guest]

True, and alongside that the easy reference tool that is Popsike.Couple those with the here-to-stay poor economic climate and methinks the price printed guides are looking more and more out of touch...but then again as soon as something goes into print it becomes out of date, so to speak, so this is NOT knocking the price guides.

The price guides and their authors had one intention from their inception.

to sustain and develop the market prices of rare soul 45s !

John may say his book was developed with cold sales data - and who am I to argue !

I just would have not given all that info to the yanks when there were clearly so many soul 45s still there.

We were on the same side. But times are different now, the economy has fooked up.

When the American record shops now finally realise that they don't need to pay for an out of date book which is only going to

kid them into thinking they are going to get twice the price for a 45 that they are never going to sell anyway, only then will

sanity prevail !

The price guides did no one on this side of the pond any fooking favours IMO

And e bay helped out because they are the prices people were actually willing to pay.

not the book prices we were nearly forced to pay !

thank you e bay !

Edited November 20, 2010 by mossy

[Prophonics 2029]

Unless you look at ebay as a fooking big sales box flooded with Bobby Hebb's and Well! I Think Its A Northern Soul Record And So Doseth My Wife, God Bless from front to back but you do have a sporting chance to make an offer.... lower or even higher to get a record, as against a dealer when the only way is down from the top price.

[Guest Bearsy]

too many people asking for too much money for records that most have got or even had at some time or other,

i just sold 3 tunes the other day i thought to me was prices reflecting what i thought peeps would be willing to pay, all 3 snapped up within no time and plenty of others wanting them too, sellers have to be realistic and think like they would if they was the buyer, everything can sell it just depends what your willing to let go for and how much someone is willing to pay, get the balance right and everyone is happy

[Chalky]

The trouble is sellers take too much notice of previous auction results, in particular the ones with daft prices and price guides which are either out of date or do not reflect a real world price. These days when something fetches a daft price it is then used as a bench mark and people want those prices for themselves. Some buyers paying over the odds for records that are in the main in poor condition. Sellers also want Mint/Ex prices for records in Vg/Vg+ condition.

The record collecting scene has been for years like the housing market, over inflated, sometimes falsely inflated prices and a crash is sure to happen at some point. Most of the long time collectors aren't getting any younger and with collections worth in many cases tens of 100's of pounds then many will look to off-load at some point.

Buyers are as much to blame, paying well over the odds when a quick search will often result in a cheaper copy, buyers paying top whack for a record they know full well the seller has quantity

[KevH]

The trouble is sellers take too much notice of previous auction results, in particular the ones with daft prices and price guides which are either out of date or do not reflect a real world price. These days when something fetches a daft price it is then used as a bench mark and people want those prices for themselves. Some buyers paying over the odds for records that are in the main in poor condition. Sellers also want Mint/Ex prices for records in Vg/Vg+ condition.

The record collecting scene has been for years like the housing market, over inflated, sometimes falsely inflated prices and a crash is sure to happen at some point. Most of the long time collectors aren't getting any younger and with collections worth in many cases tens of 100's of pounds then many will look to off-load at some point.

Buyers are as much to blame, paying well over the odds when a quick search will often result in a cheaper copy, buyers paying top whack for a record they know full well the seller has quantity

I agree with what you're saying Chalky,,but one thing that drives prices up is demand at the time .

A top dj plays it,everyone wants one (cos they've already told folks "Its at home".. ),,suddenly that "cheapie" isnt so readily available as first thought.

Problem is its just the flavor of the month - so back under the bed it goes with the rest of the mountain.

Burnt my arse on the bedroom light last night,the mountains that high.!!

As for grading,its very hit and miss.Some sellers are better than others,or more honest,sometimes the grading isnt clear cut.Some buyers want more for their money.

Paying over the odds happens.The price may not be right,but you have to strike while the money is there,and hope you dont get stung too much,when you sell on.

Sherpa Tensing.

[paultp]

I agree with what you're saying Chalky,,but one thing that drives prices up is demand at the time .

A top dj plays it,everyone wants one (cos they've already told folks "Its at home".. ),,suddenly that "cheapie" isnt so readily available as first thought.

Kev, I think that is so true it is embarrassing.

People will chase records because a "name" has played them rather than make up their own minds.

As someone selling up, maybe I should bung butch to play a bit of mid tempo - my records would fly!

Edited November 21, 2010 by paultp

[Dave Pinch]

theres a lot of of good records that are dead or dying at the moment. oldies (sadly) always sell reasonably well and of course tunes that `name` dj`s are playing but pretty much everything else seems to be struggling to me. i agree with what people are saying. the price guides did us no favours and there many £50 to £500 booked 45`s that make half that on ebay and the americans list them at top end prices and will never sell em while they`ve got holes in their arses. you`d think that craig moerer, and the like, the times he`s had records on a buy it now loop forever going round that maybe thats not what these records go for,

dave

[Dave Moore]

theres a lot of of good records that are dead or dying at the moment. oldies (sadly) always sell reasonably well and of course tunes that `name` dj`s are playing but pretty much everything else seems to be struggling to me. i agree with what people are saying. the price guides did us no favours and there many £50 to £500 booked 45`s that make half that on ebay and the americans list them at top end prices and will never sell em while they`ve got holes in their arses. you`d think that craig moerer, and the like, the times he`s had records on a buy it now loop forever going round that maybe thats not what these records go for,

dave

Then maybe the way to look at it is that the book price is the one that is/was always wrong, not the prices they are selling at in a wider market. The Guides price 45s at what that author has attained, doesn't make it the definitive price though. Though you'd think 90% of sellers on here think it is. How many times do you see:

Seen at...(Insert ridiculous price)

Books at... (Insert ridiculous price)

Priced to Sell... (Then insert ridiculous price)

Few bargains to go...(No bargain anywhere)

On sales lists. These phrases actually make me not look any further on the list.

The rise in prices over the past 15 years is self imposed. Like sheep, lots of collectors blindly took the guide price as the common denominator AND THEN added a little when that particular 45 went out of vogue and they wanted to shift it. Having paid too much in the first place they then tried to recoup that investment PLUS a mark up. No wonder you see the phrase "Seen listed at...(Insert extremely ridiculous price!)

There's no doubt in my mind that as the returnees start concentrating on retirement and grandchildren and their weekly Sat night sou nite DJ spots dry up, they'll be looking to shift their boxes of 200 in droves. They'll be looking to recover all their cash AND a bit more too. Ain't gonna happen. The first snowflakes have started falling and it won't be long before that 'record mountain' becomes an avalanche of vinyl. So if you're thinkin' of uing your 45s as a retirement fund, don't hang around, send your sales list to hitsville2648@earthlink.net before it's worthless!

Regards,

Dave

[Trev Thomas]

theres a lot of of good records that are dead or dying at the moment. oldies (sadly) always sell reasonably well and of course tunes that `name` dj`s are playing but pretty much everything else seems to be struggling to me. i agree with what people are saying. the price guides did us no favours and there many £50 to £500 booked 45`s that make half that on ebay and the americans list them at top end prices and will never sell em while they`ve got holes in their arses. you`d think that craig moerer, and the like, the times he`s had records on a buy it now loop forever going round that maybe thats not what these records go for,

dave

some of moerer's buy it nows have been on ebay for over 3 years, with all the listing fees he's had to pay, by the time he does eventually sell them he must be making a loss on them

[Dylan]

some of moerer's buy it nows have been on ebay for over 3 years, with all the listing fees he's had to pay, by the time he does eventually sell them he must be making a loss on them

with the volume of listings craig does surely some of them must be free

won't somebody with a business account or shop have different listing fees to the average man in the street who sells just a few 45s ?

[Ian Dewhirst]

Then maybe the way to look at it is that the book price is the one that is/was always wrong, not the prices they are selling at in a wider market. The Guides price 45s at what that author has attained, doesn't make it the definitive price though. Though you'd think 90% of sellers on here think it is. How many times do you see:

Seen at...(Insert ridiculous price)

Books at... (Insert ridiculous price)

Priced to Sell... (Then insert ridiculous price)

Few bargains to go...(No bargain anywhere)

On sales lists. These phrases actually make me not look any further on the list.

The rise in prices over the past 15 years is self imposed. Like sheep, lots of collectors blindly took the guide price as the common denominator AND THEN added a little when that particular 45 went out of vogue and they wanted to shift it. Having paid too much in the first place they then tried to recoup that investment PLUS a mark up. No wonder you see the phrase "Seen listed at...(Insert extremely ridiculous price!)

There's no doubt in my mind that as the returnees start concentrating on retirement and grandchildren and their weekly Sat night sou nite DJ spots dry up, they'll be looking to shift their boxes of 200 in droves. They'll be looking to recover all their cash AND a bit more too. Ain't gonna happen. The first snowflakes have started falling and it won't be long before that 'record mountain' becomes an avalanche of vinyl. So if you're thinkin' of uing your 45s as a retirement fund, don't hang around, send your sales list to hitsville2648@earthlink.net before it's worthless!

Regards,

Dave

I tend to agree with virtually all of that. A lot of big money tunes have been offloaded over the last couple of years but there seems to be a plethora of quite reasonably priced great tunes in the £10-£300 bracket. There's not much that isn't available at a top whack price if you have the money. I know several people with big ticket items that are happy to sell at the right price.

Plus a recession always opens things up.

The best hope for the health of the record market is if there's still growth in the international collectors/DJ market preferably with a younger audience. I'm willing to bet that there's probably more rare soul records in the UK then anywhere else in the world so, yes, there is a vinyl mountain over here because we've been collecting the stuff for 50 years and had professionals actively targeting the stuff for all that time. Also I believe there's a lot of stuff around which isn't even within the knowledge of the Soul Source bubble. There's some amazing collections still within the ownership of people who are either not connected with the scene or have long since dropped off, moved on to other things and simply not bothered to get rid of their early collections which are either in storage or gathering dust in the spare room.

So I think it's inevitable that more records will become available in the UK and that prices will need to adjust in line with the receeding market over here. The key is to make sure those records get passed into the right hands so that the scene doesn't wither and die. Some of those European scenes going on in Germany, Italy and elsewhere need encouraging, as do similar scenes in the US 'cos they're generally full of young folk just wanting to hear great music without the baggage that other scenes may carry. So that looks like the future to me.

It's no good these records just circulating wthin the ever-decreasing circle of collectors in the UK. Encourage young guns in other countries by selling 'em great records at affordable prices. Those smallish younger scenes in the U.S. are hungry for the same tunes we removed from the U.S. in the first place, so let's re-export some of 'em back and watch those scenes flourish

The Northern Soul scene is pretty insular and doesn't encourage much cross-pollination with anyone who is outside the loop, so it can be quite intimidating to many foreigners or youngsters.

If you want to maintain record prices whilst nicely filtering down that vinyl mountain then encourage new international buyers with affordable prices and decent multiple record discounts. Pete Smith's got the right idea 'cos I suspect he knows how much stuff is really out there!

Ian D

Edited November 21, 2010 by Ian Dewhirst

[Sebastian]

with the volume of listings craig does surely some of them must be free

won't somebody with a business account or shop have different listing fees to the average man in the street who sells just a few 45s ?

A "store account" like his costs $300 per month plus $0.03 per item to list. Then there are ofcourse the "final value fees" for the stuff that sells (roughly 15% per sold item).

Edited November 21, 2010 by Sebastian

[Dylan]

A "store account" like his costs $300 per month plus $0.03 per item to list. Then there are ofcourse the "final value fees" for the stuff that sells (roughly 15% per sold item).

if income tax in US is anything like in the UK then he probaly only sees about 60% of what the record sells for whne you add up fees and tax.

so non business sellers who don't get taxed and avoid ebay ca offer the same records @ 60% moerer prices to see same cash into pocket.

food for thought..................

[Mark Bicknell]

Keep it to Soul please.

Edited November 22, 2010 by Mark Bicknell

[Guest sean daniels]

Seen at...(Insert ridiculous price)

Books at... (Insert ridiculous price)

Priced to Sell... (Then insert ridiculous price)

Few bargains to go...(No bargain anywhere)

Superb, and so accurrate....

Dave your the modern "Shakespear"....

Edited November 21, 2010 by sean daniels

[Mark Bicknell]

Chalky has asked me to re open this thread, happy to do so if we can keep it relevent to soul rather than other types of music which have little or nothing to do with this thread, thanks.

Mark Bicknell.

[paultp]

Chalky has asked me to re open this thread, happy to do so if we can keep it relevent to soul rather than other types of music which have little or nothing to do with this thread, thanks.

Mark Bicknell.

Pleased about that Mark, it's a good thread.

I've actually taken your advice and tried to lose the emotional attachment to my records and started to sell up. I've been surprised at the results to be honest.

I started with my boxes and listed stuff as it came out of them. I thought the cheaper stuff would stick and the more expensive items sell but it hasn't been like that. Good records (regardless of price) have sold and stuck in equal amounts. The more expensive stuff has stuck the most to be honest, generally attracting the odd offer but most well below asking. I didn't think I was too far out on price but who knows in the world of records.

I had a bash on ebay as I previously said and again couldn't predict what would sell, sell well or not sell. Auctions either get a few people going, attract a solitary bid or are just ignored, whereas I would have expected records to sell when listed at below book.

And while all this is going on I noticed that JM got over £600 for a Majestics demo with writing on the label! :hatsoff2:Anyone want mine?

Ah well, I'm in no rush and will probably put them away until after Christmas now.

(my sales thread is for anyone interested)

[Mark Bicknell]

Pleased about that Mark, it's a good thread.

I've actually taken your advice and tried to lose the emotional attachment to my records and started to sell up. I've been surprised at the results to be honest.

I started with my boxes and listed stuff as it came out of them. I thought the cheaper stuff would stick and the more expensive items sell but it hasn't been like that. Good records (regardless of price) have sold and stuck in equal amounts. The more expensive stuff has stuck the most to be honest, generally attracting the odd offer but most well below asking. I didn't think I was too far out on price but who knows in the world of records.

I had a bash on ebay as I previously said and again couldn't predict what would sell, sell well or not sell. Auctions either get a few people going, attract a solitary bid or are just ignored, whereas I would have expected records to sell when listed at below book.

And while all this is going on I noticed that JM got over £600 for a Majestics demo with writing on the label! :hatsoff2:Anyone want mine?

Ah well, I'm in no rush and will probably put them away until after Christmas now.

(my sales thread is for anyone interested)

Hi Paul, I've tried and tried to get my Mojo back as it were over the past couple of years and it simply ain't there for me anymore, where I once had to have them at whatever cost now it just ain't that important to me now, sure I still like the music but even saying that I can go weeks without even playing a CD let alone records, now if I feel like this it makes me wonder how many more people out there feel the same and have stepped off the merry - go - round of record collecting, as this happens it adds to the record mountain, the only thing that will happen is that prices will level and records will sell for a far lower some say more realistic price and it then will become simply about owning the tune rather than the trophy aspect to it which may apply in some cases with the big ticket items currently

I think we all know that owning rare records on this scene gives you kudos and status, nothing wrong with that but would this be as great if all the record prices imploded and the financial value aspect was taken out of the mix? then it would perhaps be based on quality of music/record rather than it's price tag, if you love the music then the money side of it should not come into it but I'm a little worried for some people who have invested big bucks in a box of records who may end up with egg on their faces when they come to sell them.

Edited November 23, 2010 by Mark Bicknell

[Stevie]

How much does it pay then, being the site's official harpinger of doom? In all seriousness Mark, life will go on. If you look at the birthdays each day on the front page there are a great many people in their thirties and early forties who have plenty of years in them yet. As for record values, who knows, just enjoy them while you've got them, nothing is forever in life...

[Mark Bicknell]

How much does it pay then, being the site's official harpinger of doom? In all seriousness Mark, life will go on. If you look at the birthdays each day on the front page there are a great many people in their thirties and early forties who have plenty of years in them yet. As for record values, who knows, just enjoy them while you've got them, nothing is forever in life...

Comment deleted but topic still closed.

Edited November 23, 2010 by Mark Bicknell