Another Night Bites The Dust ?

[Spacehopper]

after reading marks thread about upfront or behind nicci tells me last night that ken dunn has posted on facebook that his and mick lloyds 'hip hug her' in weston supa mere is to finish !!

please say it isnt so !!!

hip hug her has being going for years and numbers have been down for the last few...i know its not a cheap venue as its one of the best and neither ken or mick are 'locals' so i suppose i can understand why but its still shit...

music policy here is a bit of both its not all rare stuff you would hear some classics but not all night you would also hear stuff you didnt know...best of both worlds...such a shame

not been on facebook myself...hope this is a misunderstanding

dean

[Guest bunty]

'IT'S A CRYING SHAME'

it's no consolation I know, but Saturday night was one of the best nights I've had at Weston!!

this should be a stark warning to people..."Use it before you lose it!" already thin on the ground for events in the south west! this will leave a big void in the soul calendar year!

Best wishes and thanks go to Mick & Ken & hopefully will see ya's out & about

[Dave Morris]

after reading marks thread about upfront or behind nicci tells me last night that ken dunn has posted on facebook that his and mick lloyds 'hip hug her' in weston supa mere is to finish !!

please say it isnt so !!!

hip hug her has being going for years and numbers have been down for the last few...i know its not a cheap venue as its one of the best and neither ken or mick are 'locals' so i suppose i can understand why but its still shit...

music policy here is a bit of both its not all rare stuff you would hear some classics but not all night you would also hear stuff you didnt know...best of both worlds...such a shame

not been on facebook myself...hope this is a misunderstanding

dean

Dean,

Mick has posted an explanation on south west soul forum.Shame as have had some great nights there.

[Guest]

Dean,

Mick has posted an explanation on south west soul forum.Shame as have had some great nights there.

I've read the explanation and the fall out that included utter rubbish from some people.

I used to be a regular of this event and have to admit that I haven't been for quite some time. I used to love travelling the 2+ hours to get there but for me I think I moved on and now only attend all-nighters. If I'm going to travel for those amount of hours I want the night to last longer. That's no insult to what they had going there... fabulous venue, promoters and punters.... just finished too soon for me.

[NEV]

Not wishing to upset anyone by this but the stark truth is ,there are way too many events on now.

By which i mean ....sooner or later the bubble will burst....a lot of venue's will close ,some good one's ,some awful but rest assured this....

There will always be somewhere to go if you love the music ........true ,you may have to travel but believe me ,it will definitely be for the better.

All part of the process imho ....too many nights = a lot of half empty rooms/a lot of poor quality events ......

Less venues = better quality events with a much better atmosphere

It will all even itself out in the long run because people who really care about the music will always support it and those who don't will go back to the Workingmans club ,listen to the mediocre talent on display , play the bingo in the interval ,have a good drink and a dance and all go home happy

Problem solved

[Liljimmycrank]

Plenty of great events about, big or small, nighter or non nighter, OVO or non OVO.

Everyone has the right to say what nights are krap and what aren't - you pay your money, make your choice, you can voice your opinion etc.

Nobody rules the roost and needs permission to start a night. Does this thin things out?? Well only if they're all the same type of night. Would a hard core oldies classic person attend a rarest of the rare underplayed soul night if all their oldies nights stopped? Probably not. People like what they like and there's plenty of options for them to go get it.

Nights will come and go, it's just part of life

[Steve L]

I'm with Nev

[Guest gordon russell]

too many folk in middle age take a mediocre attitude..........they won,t put themsleves out for anything.........so if it,s not on their doorstep just when it suits em and it ain,t the best night they,ve ever had they'll find some bullsh*t excuse not to get off their arses..........those that always have always will..............it,s all about attitude you know half empty half full. We gave up soul nights in the main many moons ago for this very reason.........fed up listening to boring people always telling you why they can,t do anything instead of just doing it.

peggy

[Guest Ste Brazil]

Every night has a sell by date, it's inevitable and has always been the case, one ends and another starts up elsewhere...

Ste.

[NEV]

Hi Nev,

I would have thought that the increase in venues both in the UK & Europe would have been one of, if not the major factor in keeping the R&B/rare soul scene alive, now I'm no big time goer outer, I collect a bit, sell a bit & attend a venue wherever & whenever I feel like it so cannot say why any venue in particular suffers with bad attendance/support, I'm guessing there's plenty like me out there? shoot me if I'm wrong but surely the guys that are running these countless venues are the same guys buying the records that you, me & everyone else imports/collects/sells, whether we like it or not any scene is an economy, take away these smaller venues & the economy/scene suffers no matter how passionate or die hard you are about it. I'm kinda thinking that a great percentage of sales on this forum & others like it are linked to people who run smaller venues or DJ in one guise or another at some of them, I don't think at this point in time there is that many people collecting for collecting's sake, there is just not the money out there & lot of peoples financial priorities have had to suddenly change in the last two years, getting back on subject I'm not sure that if these smaller local venues that offer people the chance to hear some great sounds closed that you'd see their punters traveling to another venue say 40,50 or more miles away either, again the money may not be there to fund the traveling or accomodation . I'm not trying to fan any flames here, just taking a look at the economics of it all.

Atb,

Paul

Hi Paul

It does'nt matter how many venue's there is in Europe but how many people there are to attend them .

More venues won't bring more people onto or into the scene .

Let me say ...too many venues is the root cause of venues closing down .

You ask any promotor why he/she has just announced they are no longer running their night ?

99% because numbers are down.

Its not a case of good will conquer evil ..some very good and well established venues have ended for the very reason.

I wish i could say class will shine through but it's not that simple ....this is'nt about wether i happen to think a certain venue that does'nt suit me ,is crap and deserves to close down blah blah blah !

I've gotten over the problem , by simply not supporting them ,so that's by the by.

This is'nt about having to travel 40-50 miles to the nearest venue ..i wish .Some towns /districts have 3 venues on the same night !

My example is this .... hypothetically if a certain town has a venue on the 1st Saturday of the month ,that plays across the board music and is attended by people from within a 15mile radius ....is well attended ....then someone who regularly attends this venue but lives 10 mile away ,decided to put a night on the same night .

What do you think will happen ?

Let me answer for you .....attendance will be split .

Sadly this is actually a reality ...and has been for a long time ....it's not evolution and it's definitely not rocket science !

Understandably if your offering something entirely different you could argue the case ,but is there something out there that is entirely different that it can't be encompassd in one venue with say two or three rooms ,once a month ??

Simple mathematics says ,if no ones coming to your venue then sooner or later the owner will put an end to it for obvious reason...not viable

[Guest gordon russell]

Hi Paul

It does'nt matter how many venue's there is in Europe but how many people there are to attend them .

More venues won't bring more people onto or into the scene .

Let me say ...too many venues is the root cause of venues closing down .

You ask any promotor why he/she has just announced they are no longer running their night ?

99% because numbers are down.

Its not a case of good will conquer evil ..some very good and well established venues have ended for the very reason.

I wish i could say class will shine through but it's not that simple ....this is'nt about wether i happen to think a certain venue that does'nt suit me ,is crap and deserves to close down blah blah blah !

I've gotten over the problem , by simply not supporting them ,so that's by the by.

This is'nt about having to travel 40-50 miles to the nearest venue ..i wish .Some towns /districts have 3 venues on the same night !

My example is this .... hypothetically if a certain town has a venue on the 1st Saturday of the month ,that plays across the board music and is attended by people from within a 15mile radius ....is well attended ....then someone who regularly attends this venue but lives 10 mile away ,decided to put a night on the same night .

What do you think will happen ?

Let me answer for you .....attendance will be split .

Sadly this is actually a reality ...and has been for a long time ....it's not evolution and it's definitely not rocket science !

Understandably if your offering something entirely different you could argue the case ,but is there something out there that is entirely different that it can't be encompassd in one venue with say two or three rooms ,once a month ??

Simple mathematics says ,if no ones coming to your venue then sooner or later the owner will put an end to it for obvious reason...not viable

there is another factor............too many people want to run a venue ,but not attend a venue want to dj at a venue,but not attend a venue.........so if their venue fails they stay in if they're not asked to dj they stay in.

l know of a promoter who would ask prospective dj,s one question why do you want to dj at my venue? but you don,t want to come and enjoy my venue...........food for thought

[Guest Ste Brazil]

We are in the middle of a recession, people don't have the money they did a few years ago, i'm sure every scene is been hit by it, clubs and pubs are closing at an alarming rate, i've never known anything like it...

Ste.

[NEV]

there is another factor............too many people want to run a venue ,but not attend a venue want to dj at a venue,but not attend a venue.........so if their venue fails they stay in if they're not asked to dj they stay in.

l know of a promoter who would ask prospective dj,s one question why do you want to dj at my venue? but you don,t want to come and enjoy my venue...........food for thought

Another subject that's been done to death ..too many dj's ....or too many promotors wanna be dj's ...and probably the crux of the matter

We usually end up here when ever this subject is broached ...

closely followed by " you dj at my place and i'll dj at your place next week ,thus ensuring a regular spot

Then ...don't give him a spot cos he's mates with them who we clash with ......and so on and so on :)

Familair picture i'm sorry to say

[Guest gordon russell]

Another subject that's been done to death ..too many dj's ....or too many promotors wanna be dj's ...and probably the crux of the matter

We usually end up here when ever this subject is broached ...

closely followed by " you dj at my place and i'll dj at your place next week ,thus ensuring a regular spot

Then ...don't give him a spot cos he's mates with them who we clash with ......and so on and so on :)

Familair picture i'm sorry to say

that is exactly right nev..............but it,s all these little venues run by fellas just for their own ends that is causing the bloody problem ..........l live in bedfordshire where this practise was prevalent...........all the venues have gone ,but you don,t see any of the fellas who ran em out and about ANYWHERE.

[KevH]

Hi Paul

It does'nt matter how many venue's there is in Europe but how many people there are to attend them .

More venues won't bring more people onto or into the scene .

Let me say ...too many venues is the root cause of venues closing down .

You ask any promotor why he/she has just announced they are no longer running their night ?

99% because numbers are down.

Its not a case of good will conquer evil ..some very good and well established venues have ended for the very reason.

I wish i could say class will shine through but it's not that simple ....this is'nt about wether i happen to think a certain venue that does'nt suit me ,is crap and deserves to close down blah blah blah !

I've gotten over the problem , by simply not supporting them ,so that's by the by.

This is'nt about having to travel 40-50 miles to the nearest venue ..i wish .Some towns /districts have 3 venues on the same night !

My example is this .... hypothetically if a certain town has a venue on the 1st Saturday of the month ,that plays across the board music and is attended by people from within a 15mile radius ....is well attended ....then someone who regularly attends this venue but lives 10 mile away ,decided to put a night on the same night .

What do you think will happen ?

Let me answer for you .....attendance will be split .

Sadly this is actually a reality ...and has been for a long time ....it's not evolution and it's definitely not rocket science !

Understandably if your offering something entirely different you could argue the case ,but is there something out there that is entirely different that it can't be encompassd in one venue with say two or three rooms ,once a month ??

Simple mathematics says ,if no ones coming to your venue then sooner or later the owner will put an end to it for obvious reason...not viable

And there lies another problem Nev.Not too many nights,but clashing "cos they can do it better",or "there's some money to made out of this"........

Let's hear it for the venues that try and offer something different for a change.

Venues come and go for different reasons.We shut down cos of falling numbers,lack of local support,and basically we were offering "a niter,underplayed music" venue that closed at 12.30.Marketed right,but in the wrong area (Alan Sugar would love us!!! ).

Since its shut? - not changed me one bit.Still attend venues,still buy the odd tune....time marches on....some might say....

To all the promoters of small venues that shut...its not the end of the world.Fact.

[Dazdakin]

And there lies another problem Nev.Not too many nights,but clashing "cos they can do it better",or "there's some money to made out of this"........

Let's hear it for the venues that try and offer something different for a change.

Venues come and go for different reasons.We shut down cos of falling numbers,lack of local support,and basically we were offering "a niter,underplayed music" venue that closed at 12.30.Marketed right,but in the wrong area (Alan Sugar would love us!!! ).

Since its shut? - not changed me one bit.Still attend venues,still buy the odd tune....time marches on....some might say....

To all the promoters of small venues that shut...its not the end of the world.Fact.

Most know my views on why we are were we are and the remedies for it but politics aside and personal views aside ( although what i am about to say does come from my own personal view) IF and i really do mean IF it was purely down to the maths, ie; numbers through the doors = success. And in general you will only ever get this if you stay well clear of sticking "rare underplayed night" or words to that affect on your flyers..........then promoters need to wake up give us who attend your nighters what we in the main want....top 500 or variations of this. The numbers who go to these events are on the up bar none, whereas the numbers that attend the rarer soul nights/nighters are on the way down from a starting position that was only ever mid table at best apart from LifeLine, which in my opinion is a quality nighter.

Its all well and good wanting to hear new tunes and still finding the passion as we all did when Stafford was in its prime but you cannot force on people what people dont want.

Now i know that most that will be reading this are going to say well i for one want to hear new stuff and am sick and tired of the top 500.......cool........but you really are in the minority...the numbers prove it.

[KevH]

Most know my views on why we are were we are and the remedies for it but politics aside and personal views aside ( although what i am about to say does come from my own personal view) IF and i really do mean IF it was purely down to the maths, ie; numbers through the doors = success. And in general you will only ever get this if you stay well clear of sticking "rare underplayed night" or words to that affect on your flyers..........then promoters need to wake up give us who attend your nighters what we in the main want....top 500 or variations of this. The numbers who go to these events are on the up bar none, whereas the numbers that attend the rarer soul nights/nighters are on the way down from a starting position that was only ever mid table at best apart from LifeLine, which in my opinion is a quality nighter.

Its all well and good wanting to hear new tunes and still finding the passion as we all did when Stafford was in its prime but you cannot force on people what people dont want.

Now i know that most that will be reading this are going to say well i for one want to hear new stuff and am sick and tired of the top 500.......cool........but you really are in the minority...the numbers prove it.

Good points.Numbers thru the doors doesn't always bother the promoter of smaller venues.Sustaining a level does.Take into account overheads etc and see wether its worthwhile from there on.Quality of music does matter,as does the group you are aiming at.

"Rare and underplayed" tag - was ok 4/5 years ago,now a bit overused imo.Funny how these "rare" records seem to infiltrate the top 500 venues though.Music for all.

As for promoters "waking up to what we in the main want",there's plenty of these venues around.Why would you want to change other promoters to this way of thinking?.

Would Stafford have been around if it wasn't for Wigan closing?.The record policy was quite different,but i suppose they could have played all the Wigan sets and packed the place without trying.

And its the "without trying" part that puts some off the top 500 venues.

I love my oldies,but not every week,and the same ones to boot.

Viva la difference!!!!

[Guest gordon russell]

either promote what you believe in or not at all.......don,t change your policy just to get numbers in. if what you love don,t work just go out as a punter to where you like

[Guest Bearsy]

Simples, same amount of punters as there was a few years ago but 5 times more venues and 90% offering the same thing musically wise, not all oldies orientated venues are doing that well and some rarer venues getting better numbers in so not everything is down to what is being played and there is a reccession and peeps dont have as much spare cash available or if they do they are hanging onto it,

When the bubble bursts it will be interesting to see whio is still out and about in the scene and what venues are still a success

too many venues not enough punters to go around and in 5 years look in events and i bet there aint 30+ events on a friday & 40+ events on a Saturday and nowhere as many punters still doing the rounds,

[NEV]

either promote what you believe in or not at all.......don,t change your policy just to get numbers in. if what you love don,t work just go out as a punter to where you like

Happy to say,that is a great post.

I just hope some of the guys i know close to home are reading this and taking it in!

[Guest]

H

either promote what you believe in or not at all.......don,t change your policy just to get numbers in. if what you love don,t work just go out as a punter to where you like

just carry on and collect records !

its gonna be like it used to be in the 80s soon !

maybe two or three all nighters left.

perhaps that's when things will sort themselves

Hopefully !

Edited December 1, 2010 by mossy