I am sure the subject has been covered, but not sure if anyone thinks of this. Large venues, in this day and age cost £1000s to put on. You do the maths.

• Hire of decent venue with good facilities and maybe more than one room averages about £2-3000 give or take ( you may be lucky and get it cheaper)
• Legal, ticketed security roughly £10 per hour per man/woman
• PA hire most large rooms £4-800 less on smaller rooms
• Flyer's and advertising £200plus or minus a bit
• Bill for DJ Varies massively depending who you hire( big names bigger money!)
• Sometimes a cleaning bill
• extras such as phone bills from ringing DJs promoting and other overlooked bits

The promoter, will then work his/her/their butt off to promote and push their event, so they at least break even profit is great debt is hell! With all that at risk they make sure they have a good sound system, DJs customers want etc.

Out of the blue, the date it's all booked, someone is offered a venue for nothing, as it's run down and past it's best and the manager will do owt for customers, bouncers are two guys that will do it for beers and £20.... you get the picture.

ALL EVENTS can be canceled and if a promoter is willing to lay so much out for soul fans (yes profit if possible) then you CAN move your date or cancel. If you stand to loose a few quid for the flyer's you've had printed, then it's not out of the question to ring the promoter and explain, he may prefer to help you out than loose 50 of his punters(no harm asking).

I have spoken to every promoter of know nighters, and not yet found one of them to be unaproachable.......yes all very different personalities and some way more helpful than others but none to be totally ignorant.(offend them and it may be different!!)

We ran a one off Nighter a while ago and I rang every promoter or spoke to them, to make sure of a clear date, so many were surprised and all were happy to help me avoid their dates, all so easy

I AM NOT ALONE IN SAYING, STOP SLICING UP AND DIVIDING OUR SCENE, NIGHTER FANS ARE DRIFTING AWAY DUE TO EVENTS CLASHING WHICH IS EMPTYING VENUES EVERYWHERE

If you want to DJ ask and keep asking, don't just put on and event to DJ at

I am sure I will get abuse from someone, for this but here goes!!!!

so why are you promoting then ? theres far too much on as youve said !

I am not promoting. We did a one off Nighter for the Meningitis trust A year or so ago, due to our daughter surviving it, I helped run the Fox due to so many people asking me to, I have done as asked and now go back to the easier, more satisfying task of parent and occasional DJ!!

Forgot, we did have the Fox Booked for new years eve as there was nothing on, but canceled. After 2, some may expect it to be regular!

  On 24/10/2010 at 08:14, Anton L said:

I am not promoting. We did a one off Nighter for the Meningitis trust A year or so ago, due to our daughter surviving it, I helped run the Fox due to so many people asking me to, I have done as asked and now go back to the easier, more satisfying task of parent and occasional DJ!!

AND WHAT A VERY WELL ORGANISED EVENT IT WAS TOO .

ALL DOWN TO THE PROMOTER, I'D SAY...

HOPE TO SEE YOU AND NIKKI OUT AN ABOUT SOON

DOLLY :thumbsup: XX

Agree with above, though so called 'funky northern' is enough to keep us away.

Edited October 24, 201014 yr by Simsy

  On 24/10/2010 at 08:23, Anton L said:

Forgot, we did have the Fox Booked for new years eve as there was nothing on, but canceled. After 2, some may expect it to be regular!

thats a shame mate. we were looking forward to that

  On 24/10/2010 at 06:19, Anton L said:

I am sure the subject has been covered, but not sure if anyone thinks of this. Large venues, in this day and age cost £1000s to put on. You do the maths.

• Hire of decent venue with good facilities and maybe more than one room averages about £2-3000 give or take ( you may be lucky and get it cheaper)
• Legal, ticketed security roughly £10 per hour per man/woman
• PA hire most large rooms £4-800 less on smaller rooms
• Flyer's and advertising £200plus or minus a bit
• Bill for DJ Varies massively depending who you hire( big names bigger money!)
• Sometimes a cleaning bill
• extras such as phone bills from ringing DJs promoting and other overlooked bits

The promoter, will then work his/her/their butt off to promote and push their event, so they at least break even profit is great debt is hell! With all that at risk they make sure they have a good sound system, DJs customers want etc.

Out of the blue, the date it's all booked, someone is offered a venue for nothing, as it's run down and past it's best and the manager will do owt for customers, bouncers are two guys that will do it for beers and £20.... you get the picture.

ALL EVENTS can be canceled and if a promoter is willing to lay so much out for soul fans (yes profit if possible) then you CAN move your date or cancel. If you stand to loose a few quid for the flyer's you've had printed, then it's not out of the question to ring the promoter and explain, he may prefer to help you out than loose 50 of his punters(no harm asking).

I have spoken to every promoter of know nighters, and not yet found one of them to be unaproachable.......yes all very different personalities and some way more helpful than others but none to be totally ignorant.(offend them and it may be different!!)

We ran a one off Nighter a while ago and I rang every promoter or spoke to them, to make sure of a clear date, so many were surprised and all were happy to help me avoid their dates, all so easy

I AM NOT ALONE IN SAYING, STOP SLICING UP AND DIVIDING OUR SCENE, NIGHTER FANS ARE DRIFTING AWAY DUE TO EVENTS CLASHING WHICH IS EMPTYING VENUES EVERYWHERE

If you want to DJ ask and keep asking, don't just put on and event to DJ at

I am sure I will get abuse from someone, for this but here goes!!!!

The Scene has already splintered and some good venues have suffered because of it. The way I see it is, if your not doing anything different from another event within close proximity, why bother? (Meant in the nicest possible way) For example, If you condensed three events into one 'Juicy' one, put on less often, everyone would probably enjoy it 3 times as much...That's as long as everyone got on with each other and focus on the music (And that's gonna happen?!!!) - Problem is, It's not just events clashing, it's also personalities clashing!

One side of the argument is that a lot more people are coming out now, which is true. But it's gone too far the other way. In the 90's there must have been a tenth of the amount of events on - Everyone was happy being punters and it didn't cross anyone's mind to put their own event on. Don't attack me, I know I ran The Embankment Club back then, but there was a place for it. In fact I remember deciding to put it on a Friday night so it didn't clash with any All-nighters - Soul 'night' wise, there was only Albrighton, Desborough Ritz and later The Dome to consider clashing in the same weekend, let alone the same night! I gave up promoting in 2007 because it was damn hard work competing against all that's on (This is also one of the reasons why I'm bowing out of my part at The Pemberton Centre after the next one)

I agree with you that it is a lot of work putting an event on and credit where it's due to anyone who does, but you all know how stressful it is. It puzzles me why anyone does it, let alone too many!

It's not all bad as some say, but I agree it does stop some folk bothering as they are not guaranteed a busy night wherever they choose to go. Nina and I have had free weekends, looked at the events calendar and agreed not to bother as looking down the long list is just overwhelming. Be interested if anyone else has done that.

All the best,

Len.

"If your going to play records in public, the most important thing is to do it your way and no-one else's!"

Some great poinys cover by Len.

I was taken back the other week where I had Crossire, Vava Voom and 100 club all in one month so sadly had to drop one of the list of to do's.

  On 24/10/2010 at 11:43, Prophonics 2029 said:

Some great poinys cover by Len.

I was taken back the other week where I had Crossire, Vava Voom and 100 club all in one month so sadly had to drop one of the list of to do's.

PHEW! - Thanks Tony. Ain't it horrible waiting for a reply, when you've just posted a long post like that?!!! - I've been dreading the - "Who the f*ck's he think he is?" jibes - I've had em before! - I just care about the soul-scene that's all. Ego's can be VERY sensitive you see.

Maybe there should be a 'voted in' committee to 'ok' any event taking place - A bit like on the film 'The Great Escape', when all Escapes had to be cleared by The Escape Commottee, so other escapes weren't effected. (Now, I'll get the "Who the f*ck, does he think he is?" Jibe!!!) lol

See you next week at The 100 Club mate - Can't wait as an All-nighter there for us has been a good while because of the kiddies!

All the best,

Len.

"If your going to play records in public, the most important thing is to do it your way and no-one else's!"

I'm worried that this is becoming an argument that it's ok to run a nighter as long as it has the broadest possible appeal and therefore doesn't satisfy anyone. Too many nighters are becoming very samey as it is and that's one of the reasons i've stopped going to most of them. Same DJs, same sets, same so-called across the board (oldies). There are probably, in my opinion only a couple of nighters with main rooms that are different from others at the moment, so not much choice at all in my opinion. Having said that maybe there isn't a gap for an upfront nighter, because the amount of people who are into progressive sounds is miniscule and possibly it wouldn't be viable.

In my opinion all the best music is being played in the second room or in the upfront soul nights thesedays. I don't stay in the main room of a nighter if i want to hear something new.

But Len I pick events for different reasons, Stoke - the social night, Six Hills - Soul Family feel and good tunes, Bidds & Lifeline - New tunes and oldies from my era ! Radcliffe - For me has it all. All these are different styles but if they clashed I have to make a choice and worse our group usualy gets spit between them.

Just put it all in one with DJs of different styles. In the past I have settled in the record bar for an hour while a DJ played my soul poison and fly back in to hear a DJ play soul bliss. Would everyone get up and leave if Karl Heard did The King Hall? not if they knew Brian Rae was on next or vice versa, I would stay for both and give up smoking!!

You say about clashing personalities... Wow it still blows me away to hear people say " I hate him over there.. he plays *******" take thier wife kill the kids but don't dress, play or go to the wrong venue. this is people around 42 to 57 on average. If I don't gel with some one I smile or nod to them out of cortesey and keep away.

In one of the books there is a quote " When people stop debating about the scene, the scene will be dead" something along those lines... Still alive then!!!!!!

  On 24/10/2010 at 12:11, Matt Male said:

I'm worried that this is becoming an argument that it's ok to run a nighter as long as it has the broadest possible appeal and therefore doesn't satisfy anyone. Too many nighters are becoming very samey as it is and that's one of the reasons i've stopped going to most of them. Same DJs, same sets, same so-called across the board (oldies). There are probably, in my opinion only a couple of nighters with main rooms that are different from others at the moment, so not much choice at all in my opinion. Having said that maybe there isn't a gap for an upfront nighter, because the amount of people who are into progressive sounds is miniscule and possibly it wouldn't be viable.

In my opinion all the best music is being played in the second room or in the upfront soul nights thesedays. I don't stay in the main room of a nighter if i want to hear something new.

Hi Matt,

Ref "Is it ok to put on a nighter if it has the broadest possible appeal?' - Personally I don't think it's ok to 'Start' any new night whatsoever at the moment (Unless, as I said it is completely different to anything in close proximity) Any new night just adds to the problem.

A while back I was discussing with someone that The Pemberton Centre may be demolished, they immediately said - "Are you going to find another venue" My answer was a massive NO! Another part of this subject is Djing of course, as it is a big part of why some people put an event on. I mentioned about bowing out of The Pemberton and my mate said "What ya gonna do about Djing?" - In a kind of 'My God' voice (Does that make sense?) My point is - As long as someone is putting on an event and the music I like is being played, there's no reason I feel I should promote OR DJ, that's the truth - Trouble is not many Djs play the monotonous 'Boring' Mid-Tempo that I like to dance to lol (Had to be said before someone else does!) So I will carry on Djing (If asked!)

All the best,

Len.

"If your going to play records in public, the most important thing is to do it your way and no-one else's!"

i think its good there is a choice of venues to go,,,,although i understand the one venue for all,,,as much i love my oldies i love going to other venues to try,,in the last year ive been RARELY disappointed with any allniter ive attended and ive suported them all..........i would hate to have only one set of djs to have to listen to all the time ever y week as there are so many OVERPLAYED oldies and classic RARITIES .

another down side is of course youre never going to be a millionaire doing niters,breaking even is the game and i put one on earlier in the year and it cost a fortune to put on but although it was great the stress was unbelievable although rewarding....

ive said before i take my HAT OFF to anyone who puts a niter on but its all about the music you put on...if its what people want to hear it will be successful....

see y'all at lifeline next week...

  On 24/10/2010 at 12:11, Matt Male said:

I'm worried that this is becoming an argument that it's ok to run a nighter as long as it has the broadest possible appeal and therefore doesn't satisfy anyone. Too many nighters are becoming very samey as it is and that's one of the reasons I've stopped going to most of them. Same DJs, same sets, same so-called across the board (oldies). There are probably, in my opinion only a couple of nighters with main rooms that are different from others at the moment, so not much choice at all in my opinion. Having said that maybe there isn't a gap for an upfront nighter, because the amount of people who are into progressive sounds is miniscule and possibly it wouldn't be viable.

In my opinion all the best music is being played in the second room or in the upfront soul nights thesedays. I don't stay in the main room of a nighter if i want to hear something new.

No No never, variety has taken me all over this country.

Example is the other weekend we had The Wheel, Gloucester, Burley, Radcliffe,Six Hills and all topped with Skegness weekender. From what I every nighter was down in numbers Skegness normal numbers... where is the sense in that if any one wanted to experience the styles of all those, you might need a gadget from Star Trek!!! In fact it is quite irritating seeing events emulating others, they never get it right so you get a diluted version

  On 24/10/2010 at 12:48, Anton L said:

But Len I pick events for different reasons, Stoke - the social night, Six Hills - Soul Family feel and good tunes, Bidds & Lifeline - New tunes and oldies from my era ! Radcliffe - For me has it all. All these are different styles but if they clashed I have to make a choice and worse our group usualy gets spit between them.

Just put it all in one with DJs of different styles. In the past I have settled in the record bar for an hour while a DJ played my soul poison and fly back in to hear a DJ play soul bliss. Would everyone get up and leave if Karl Heard did The King Hall? not if they knew Brian Rae was on next or vice versa, I would stay for both and give up smoking!!

You say about clashing personalities... Wow it still blows me away to hear people say " I hate him over there.. he plays *******" take thier wife kill the kids but don't dress, play or go to the wrong venue. this is people around 42 to 57 on average. If I don't gel with some one I smile or nod to them out of cortesey and keep away.

In one of the books there is a quote " When people stop debating about the scene, the scene will be dead" something along those lines... Still alive then!!!!!!

Hi Anton,

Fantastic last line! lol

When I said clashing of personalities, I meant between promoters who are putting on similar events in the same area - Point being, we've all got the same hobby - 'Together we are stronger' kind of thang.

Different personalities and music tastes is what makes the scene great - I love the banter / arguments about music tastes as it's all done in good humour.

Again personally, I'm all for different styles of music in the same room, as I think they compliment each other. Nowt wrong with one style either though - Say a huge Oldies All-nighter which I also enjoy or these 'Underplayed' smaller rooms.

Variety is what makes it interesting. It's the too many events on that has (As you say) seen numbers suffer at some places.

All the best,

Len.

　"If your going to play records in public, the most important thing is to do it your way and no-one else's!"

  On 24/10/2010 at 12:49, LEN said:

Hi Matt,

Ref "Is it ok to put on a nighter if it has the broadest possible appeal?' - Personally I don't think it's ok to 'Start' any new night whatsoever at the moment (Unless, as I said it is completely different to anything in close proximity) Any new night just adds to the problem.All the best,

Len.

"If your going to play records in public, the most important thing is to do it your way and no-one else's!"

I didn't ask that question Len. I said this is becoming an argument that it's ok to run a nighter as long as it has the broadest possible appeal.

My point was that most new nighters just seem to fall into the trap of playing the same as all the others. You say it's ok if it's completely different to anything in close proximity and i agree totally. To my mind that's the only criteria for starting a new nighter, different and not clashing locally.

Personally i don't think the idea of a wide appeal of styles is a good thing, i wouldn't like to spend my time sitting out spots in the record bar i'd rather go somewhere where i know i'll enjoy all of the spots. As for Karl playing Kings Hall, i think Karl would play what the Kings Hall crowd and the promoter want, the same as Butch currently does, otherwise Kev wouldn't emply him in the first place. Karl plays different sets depending on the audience, like any good DJ should and any DJ who feels their style wouldn't go down well at a certain venue they should turn down the spot. Plenty of promoters get it wrong by putting on the wrong DJ for their venue, not the DJs fault just promoters with no idea who they are putting on.

  On 24/10/2010 at 12:11, Matt Male said:

In my opinion all the best music is being played in the second room or in the upfront soul nights thesedays. I don't stay in the main room of a nighter if i want to hear something new.

Try Lifeline, Bidds, Wilton, Burnley(?), 100 Club, Barnsley....

See you at Lifeline!

ATB, John

  On 24/10/2010 at 12:11, Matt Male said:

In my opinion all the best music is being played in the second room or in the upfront soul nights thesedays. I don't stay in the main room of a nighter if i want to hear something new.

Really?

John Mc beat me to it, but perhaps you are going to the wrong allnighters then Matt

  On 24/10/2010 at 14:12, Mace said:

Really?

John Mc beat me to it, but perhaps you are going to the wrong allnighters then Matt

I did say in my earlier post that there were at least a couple of nighters with main rooms that were different. Of course i include Bidds in that Mace and so does everyone who loves rare upfront soul and R&B (even though it's been a while since i've been).

I'm just not sure that all the nighters that are held up as progressive are always as upfront as many claim them to be, one of the reasons i haven't been to a big regular nighter for a while. Last nighter i went to was DoS (you were there to Mace) which was a great night.

This is just my opinion by the way before any more promoters get the hump.

Edited October 24, 201014 yr by Matt Male

Cant really not agree with anything said although i am a little confused over one point running through this thread.

If the point of running a new venue as a nighter is to play something different from the rest otherwise it is sure to fail, how different and in what way? Surly northern/R&B is what it is.

Me , personally love the top 500 week in week out but having said that am coming around to the "new" stuff and have to admit that alot of it is quality and needs to be heard at the bigger venues. My point being these days its imho the venue and the SIZE of the crowd that attend that makes a nighter. Top 500 with a good venue but with nobody in is pants top 500 at kings hall....you get my point, its the same for rarer stuff or r&b played at venues only with a hand full of souls in, same music policy in a rammed venue will always be the one that is remembered.

Just a thought.

  On 24/10/2010 at 14:25, Matt Male said:

I did say in my earlier post that there were at least a couple of nighters with main rooms that were different. Of course i include Bidds in that Mace and so does everyone who loves rare upfront soul and R&B (even though it's been a while since i've been).

I'm just not sure that all the nighters that are held up as progressive are always as upfront as many claim them to be, one of the reasons i haven't been to a big regular nighter for a while. Last nighter i went to was DoS (you were there to Mace) which was a great night.

This is just my opinion by the way before any more promoters get the hump.

Just bored and baiting a line Matt

No worries, Daz has arrived now, so things might liven up

  On 24/10/2010 at 15:25, dazdakin said:

Cant really not agree with anything said although i am a little confused over one point running through this thread.

If the point of running a new venue as a nighter is to play something different from the rest otherwise it is sure to fail, how different and in what way? Surly northern/R&B is what it is.

Me , personally love the top 500 week in week out but having said that am coming around to the "new" stuff and have to admit that alot of it is quality and needs to be heard at the bigger venues. My point being these days its imho the venue and the SIZE of the crowd that attend that makes a nighter. Top 500 with a good venue but with nobody in is pants top 500 at kings hall....you get my point, its the same for rarer stuff or r&b played at venues only with a hand full of souls in, same music policy in a rammed venue will always be the one that is remembered.

Just a thought.

Damm, you're becoming far too reasonable in your old age

However, I personally don't need to be in a rammed venue to enjoy/remember a great nighter (whatever the music policy).

Just enough of the right minded people to create a decent atmosphere

Now stop being so agreeable, it makes me uneasy

  On 24/10/2010 at 15:25, dazdakin said:

Cant really not agree with anything said although i am a little confused over one point running through this thread.

If the point of running a new venue as a nighter is to play something different from the rest otherwise it is sure to fail, how different and in what way? Surly northern/R&B is what it is.

Me , personally love the top 500 week in week out but having said that am coming around to the "new" stuff and have to admit that alot of it is quality and needs to be heard at the bigger venues. My point being these days its imho the venue and the SIZE of the crowd that attend that makes a nighter. Top 500 with a good venue but with nobody in is pants top 500 at kings hall....you get my point, its the same for rarer stuff or r&b played at venues only with a hand full of souls in, same music policy in a rammed venue will always be the one that is remembered.

Just a thought.

I think what's being said is - Folk don't want an All-nighter on the same weekend as another 'Similar music policy' All-nighter too close by to each other as it divides everyone up, even groups of friends.

You say 'How different and in what way?' - Life-line A/N would be very different to Stoke Oldies A/N (Main room) because of the amount of progressive and under played stuff that is featured at Life-line. So really they would be ok to be on the same weekend even if they were situated very close to each other, as in general they are for different audiences. Although point taken, still best not to happen if at all poss, as some folk enjoy both. I don't think anyone's saying one or other is sure to fail. It's more, if a certain kind of event is covered in a certain area, there's no point in there being another one. (I think that's it!)

I'm getting confused - Anton, can you reiterate what this thread is about, as I think I may have gone 'Off Thread' even after doing my usual, checking what I wrote 80 times before I post it (Ok,ok 100 times!) Or am I following this correctly?

Cheers,

Len.

(Hiya Mace!)

"If your going to play records in public, the most important thing is to do it your way and no-one else's!"

Trying to say In a Sunday sort of way! Although others are fine with different styles can clash and I can see this, but I like most styles if there are just 30 people thinking like me and we all choose one if tickets are £10 thats £300 the other promoter looses. Or, two nighters One Friday and one Saturday both good. I am only 46 but have a enough sense ( A wife who talks sense!!) not to push my limits to much. Gone are the days when easter meant starting Thursday night and strait to work on Tuesday with no sleep and aching legs.

Back to the main point, Clashing will nearly always take some punters away from either event

  On 24/10/2010 at 17:01, LEN said:

I think what’s being said is - Folk don’t want an All-nighter on the same weekend as another ‘Similar music policy’ All-nighter too close by to each other as it divides everyone up, even groups of friends.

You say ‘How different and in what way?‘ - Life-line A/N would be very different to Stoke Oldies A/N (Main room) because of the amount of progressive and under played stuff that is featured at Life-line. So really they would be ok to be on the same weekend even if they were situated very close to each other, as in general they are for different audiences.

Not true because Stoke now has a rare room and has at least two of the Lifeline DJs on. Although I know you were speaking hypothetically Len.

Anyway, surely promoters promote knowing that they could very well make a loss?

And the promoters that have a different nighter on every weekend are not helping things.

Edited October 24, 201014 yr by jumpinjoan

  On 24/10/2010 at 17:10, Anton L said:

Back to the main point, Clashing will nearly always take some punters away from either event

Course it will Anton, most of us are well aware of this fact.

However, you're preaching to the converted with most of the (allnighter) promoters on here, who do speak to each other and attempt to avoid clashes with each others dates.

There are an odd few, however, who don't seem to give a shite about any other events within spitting distance.

As you are quite pally with at least one in particular, maybe your pearls of wisdom would better shared over a pint or two with him instead.......

Then again, you know you're pissing in the wind when this lame excuse rears it's ugly head....

" I had no choice, it was the only date the venue would give me that month"

Lifeline has had the same dates for 7 years, we work with most promoters so no clashes occur, We work closely with Mace at Bidds, Chris at New Century, even sharing flyers to cut costs with Mace and Chris, we also work with Kev Roberts, Sian at Rugby, and Ady at the 100 Club to ensure no clashes (unfortunately 100 Club clash with us this month as Ady could get no other date).

I don't get this they are all right, different policy so won't affect us, it's boll*cks, we are all after the same punters. "Upfront/progressive" venues want the oldies crowd as well, we want them to embrace newer discoveries, it is working as well a The all-nighter crowd whether you care to admit it or not is an ever decreasing number of people, this is for various reasons.

I don't agree with two all-nighters in the same region, one on a Friday one on a Saturday. It simply takes numbers away from each other and more often than not results in two all-nighters with medocre attendances. Not many do two all-nighters a week now. The Wilton which has been running for nearly two decades has suffered this year because of Burnley (twice) and Morecambe deciding to go on the same night, I mean any other week to choose from and they pick the same night as a long established nighter which runs every other month and sometimes less. All three venues suffered because of this lack of planning and one venue had less than 30 in from what I hear?! As I said Wilton is on 1 week out of 8, these other two venues could have used any of the other 7 weeks yet decided to put their night on the same night /weekend.

This lack of planning (or is a couldn't care less attitude about another venue) affects everyone, other promoters, the paying public and the DJ's.

It is time promoters started using a bit of common sense and also put the scene before their own interests, it is a slowly dying scene and some promoters are simply hastening it's demise by their actions.

Unfortunately, some promoters feel they wont be effected or don't care, but if punters vote with their feet or cars, hitting them in the pocket is better than a slap round the face, Also I will do my up-most to support any promoter that listens to CONSTRUCTIVE criticism and many really do so don't sit in the corner moaning speak up, if you are ignored or rudely treated you don't go again.

Mace, yes it seems common sense but I speak to so many who are shocked that this is allowed !

  On 24/10/2010 at 18:29, Anton L said:

Unfortunately, some promoters feel they wont be effected or don't care, but if punters vote with their feet or cars, hitting them in the pocket is better than a slap round the face, Also I will do my up-most to support any promoter that listens to CONSTRUCTIVE criticism and many really do so don't sit in the corner moaning speak up, if you are ignored or rudely treated you don't go again.

Mace, yes it seems common sense but I speak to so many who are shocked that this is allowed !

people do vote with their feet yet some still continue to promote poorly promoted venues, at a loss.....what good is that doing? Friends loyalty is put to the test with some feeling "obliged" to attend a night run by a friend that they no will be poorly attended.

As for constructive criticism, depends how you view it and what is meant by it. I know some thin k suggesting more oldies at a night with a progressive policy or more newies at an oldies night is constructive.

  On 24/10/2010 at 18:39, chalky said:

people do vote with their feet yet some still continue to promote poorly promoted venues, at a loss.....what good is that doing? Friends loyalty is put to the test with some feeling "obliged" to attend a night run by a friend that they no will be poorly attended.

As for constructive criticism, depends how you view it and what is meant by it. I know some thin k suggesting more oldies at a night with a progressive policy or more newies at an oldies night is constructive.

your last two suggestions would work for me!.....across the board has to be a winning formula.

  On 24/10/2010 at 18:29, Anton L said:

Unfortunately, some promoters feel they wont be effected or don't care, but if punters vote with their feet or cars, hitting them in the pocket is better than a slap round the face, Also I will do my up-most to support any promoter that listens to CONSTRUCTIVE criticism and many really do so don't sit in the corner moaning speak up, if you are ignored or rudely treated you don't go again.

Mace, yes it seems common sense but I speak to so many who are shocked that this is allowed !

Anton, gotta admit that you've lost me with your last comment.

What are you referring to with the comment "so many who are shocked that this is allowed !" ??

I don't get this they are all right, different policy so won't affect us, it's boll*cks, we are all after the same punters. "Upfront/progressive" venues want the oldies crowd as well, we want them to embrace newer discoveries, it is working as well a The all-nighter crowd whether you care to admit it or not is an ever decreasing number of people, this is for various reasons.

Edited October 24, 201014 yr by LEN

  On 24/10/2010 at 19:31, LEN said:

Hi Chalky,

Yes, point taken, but if it has to happen though, better two different music policy's clashing than the same music policy's clashing. On reflection, it doesn't have to happen though does it? As I said in my post, if poss not at all as some folk enjoy all style of nights.

All the best,

Len.

P.S - Joan, I'm aware of the Progressive room at Stoke..Just didn't want anyone to point it out!

"If your going to play records in public, the most important thing is to do it your way and no-one else's!"

Hi Len, my comments weren't directed at you, here the comment "well they play different music to us" too many times.

Think promoters would be better off going every other month, might make for a healthier all night scene.

I speak for many travellers I'm sure. The location of the nighter isn't really an excuse to run one as a lot of people are happy to drive for 2-3 hours to get to a venue. Personally, I like my sauce thick not a watery variant. Still, nothing will stop people putting on their ickle fringe soul nights unless people stop going to them

  On 24/10/2010 at 18:45, JIM BARRY said:

your last two suggestions would work for me!.....across the board has to be a winning formula.

I have said this all along.

Prestatyn week ender is a prime example,not just oldies in the main room,but 60s newies too.

And i was surprised to see how many of the usual oldies crowd stayed up on the dancefloor for the 60s newies.

I can't understand this mentality,that oldies nights don't slip in the odd newie.

And newies nighs wont play top 100 oldies. (or very rarely).

Stu.

  On 24/10/2010 at 20:27, TheSoulgirl said:

I speak for many travellers I'm sure. The location of the nighter isn't really an excuse to run one as a lot of people are happy to drive for 2-3 hours to get to a venue. Personally, I like my sauce thick not a watery variant. Still, nothing will stop people putting on their ickle fringe soul nights unless people stop going to them

Hiya

hear what you say and agree to some extent but I can remember a significant period of time - when many were off fishing, caravaning etc etc - within which those 'fringe nights' helped to kept the whole thing alive. Always had the big-ticket nighters of course, but nowhere near as many of em. Main difference was though that the folk who attended and / or played 'on the fringe' knew what they were doing and did it for all the right reasons.

So many places these days seem to describe themself as 'up-front' or 'rare and underplayed' and what you tend to find when you get there it's nothing of the sort. Personally, I wouldn't make such a big fuss of the progressive, oldies, newies, funky northern tags / policies; they seem doomed to fail and alienate on a number of levels.

The recipe seems to me not to be a particle physics equation:

- don't clash with established or major events

- promote it properly but don't run one every week or month (cos you'll burn it out quickly as the records and punters just ain't there to sustain the turnover and/ or to keep it sufficiently fresh)

- believe in what you're trying to do / don't be swayed by idiots who know f*ck all (e.g. be prepared to give them their money back if they continue to be a pain in the arse, thank them for attending and ask them to go somewhere else in future)

- only use djs who have a. the records, b. the knowledge and c. the passion to get em up and keep em up dancing; and

- play something for everyone within the bounds of reason and without compromising the quality

Wouldn't wanna do it on a nighter scale though and fair play to anyone who does and does it well

Don't change the policy at any of the venues, the beauty of them is their individuality, I love to think one week I can hear progressive, next oldies and next a multi roomed assortment.

This is maybe a pointless thread as, by the time 2011 arrives we will be 3 nighters down.

Chalkie, By constructive I meant "excuse me, we are sitting on the right, and the sound is muffled, not sure if you are aware of this" I don't imagine it would be constructive or healthy to ask if Butch can play Night Owl!!! might be fun to watch you ask " the table at the back would like a few stomping oldies like footsie!!!"

Edited October 24, 201014 yr by Anton L

  On 24/10/2010 at 16:17, Mace said:

Damm, you're becoming far too reasonable in your old age

However, I personally don't need to be in a rammed venue to enjoy/remember a great nighter (whatever the music policy).

Just enough of the right minded people to create a decent atmosphere

Now stop being so agreeable, it makes me uneasy

This will make you uneasy Mace.....see you at Life Line!!

  On 24/10/2010 at 21:37, dazdakin said:

This will make you uneasy Mace.....see you at Life Line!!

Well I think I'm right in believing that you've been before, but I'm sure you'll love it all the same

I'll be the one with the stink bombs and banana skins

  On 24/10/2010 at 06:19, Anton L said:

If you want to DJ ask and keep asking, don't just put on and event to DJ at

Hear Hear Anton, that has to be the sentence and explains the problems with our scene at the moment.

Too many people buy a few records and decide to put an event on to play them. There is whole new discussion about whether the important thing is the DJ or the records they own, but for me a good DJ can be spotted from the back of a very dark room.

The fewer the venues the better the quality.

  On 28/10/2010 at 20:59, Andy Jackson said:

The fewer the venues the better the quality.

I personally think in the next few years you will find a large percentage of Soul venues up and down the country disappearing.

Just due to the age of the fans - nothing more

This is just a last of the summer wine show as far as northern soul clubbing goes.

I love and collect vintage 45s and will always do, but I still swerve the whole scene itself for lots of reasons.

I hate the politics more than ever - I hate the oldies vs upfront vs modern vs rnb etc.. etc... split (what's that all about for fooks sake!)

I hate it that the die hards that won't accept anything they don't know and it annoys me that certain djs dismiss

great records out of hand because they are overplayed oldies.

DJs had the responsibility of looking after all these great tunes and making sure they were looked after in the first place !

Sam Fletcher Ruby Andrews and Carla Thomas just sang the songs perfectly.......... The Soul scene overplayed and ruined them !

In 5 years time it may be like the 80s again - 2 venues on in one weekend where you have to travel 300 miles

but man....................

It was better like that

It was great when the vinyl was coming over from the usa in mint condition in quantity in the 80s

But the rarities will return to the market place in the next few years.

some Soul fans are already selling their original 45s cheaper than they have ever been - there are more rarities

coming on to the market than ever before

I wait with eager anticipation for this fooked up scene to dwindle and wane

that's when it will be worth booking days off work again !

at the moment Soul nights are like being in B&Q on a Wednesday

or like being on the set of Cocoon !

Edited October 29, 201014 yr by mossy

  On 24/10/2010 at 21:10, PhilT said:

Hiya

hear what you say and agree to some extent but I can remember a significant period of time - when many were off fishing, caravaning etc etc - within which those 'fringe nights' helped to kept the whole thing alive. Always had the big-ticket nighters of course, but nowhere near as many of em. Main difference was though that the folk who attended and / or played 'on the fringe' knew what they were doing and did it for all the right reasons.

So many places these days seem to describe themself as 'up-front' or 'rare and underplayed' and what you tend to find when you get there it's nothing of the sort. Personally, I wouldn't make such a big fuss of the progressive, oldies, newies, funky northern tags / policies; they seem doomed to fail and alienate on a number of levels.

The recipe seems to me not to be a particle physics equation:

- don't clash with established or major events

- promote it properly but don't run one every week or month (cos you'll burn it out quickly as the records and punters just ain't there to sustain the turnover and/ or to keep it sufficiently fresh)

- believe in what you're trying to do / don't be swayed by idiots who know f*ck all (e.g. be prepared to give them their money back if they continue to be a pain in the arse, thank them for attending and ask them to go somewhere else in future)

- only use djs who have a. the records, b. the knowledge and c. the passion to get em up and keep em up dancing; and

- play something for everyone within the bounds of reason and without compromising the quality

Wouldn't wanna do it on a nighter scale though and fair play to anyone who does and does it well

Play northern soul(Im assuming this is a northern soul website not a rare soul website)........its not friggin hard, not mid tempo allnight,&b[, reggae WTF (Lynn Tait being discussed as a northern soul record FFS?),popcorn, latin boogaloo, Jazz R&B,Punk Funk,beat ballads..........lets get back to basics and all those overlooked oldies and "QUALITY NEWLY DISCOVERED DANCEABLE RECORDS".DJ's stop looking at your navel and your mates and how you can add your DNA and slant and lets sort this crap out. I'm into northern soul ie uptempo based motown sounding sixties music.....You can stick your rare soul where the sun don't shine,I'm not into rare soul,......which can be anything but not necessarily dance music.Northern soul all the way....FFS it might even get exciting and we might even get converts on the way . I do not think im the only one. What is "our scene"??? as described above

Edited October 28, 201014 yr by wiggyflat

  On 28/10/2010 at 23:17, wiggyflat said:

Play northern soul........its not hard, not mid tempo, new r@b, reggae WTF (Lynn Tait FFS?),popcorn, latin boogaloo, Jazz R&B,Punk Funk,beat ballads..........lets get back to basics and all those overlooked oldies.DJ's stop looking at your navel and your mates and lets have some Riker Likers.

what is northern soul then ?

mid tempo tunes, rnb , boogaloo have been part of the early scene since the mod clubs like the scene club in london

jamaican - latin - mid tempo things have always been played with up tempo Detroit things since day 1

It wasn't something Keb did first

Guy Stephens was mixing all sorts of quality tunes 20 years before when they were new releases !

at a central London venue in the 60s

Its just about taste mate.

I love the Mike Terry saxaphone stompers, but I also love Ray Barretto's percussion !

Dosent make me that much different to you !

Edited October 28, 201014 yr by mossy

  On 28/10/2010 at 23:17, wiggyflat said:

I'm into northern soul ie uptempo based motown sounding sixties music.....You can stick your rare soul where the sun don't shine,I'm not into rare soul,......which can be anything but not necessarily dance music.Northern soul all the way....

Can't see the problem - you must be inundated with venues playing what you want?

  On 28/10/2010 at 23:17, wiggyflat said:

Play northern soul........its not hard, not mid tempo, new r@b, reggae WTF (Lynn Tait FFS?),popcorn, latin boogaloo, Jazz R&B,Punk Funk,beat ballads..........lets get back to basics and all those overlooked oldies and "QUALITY NEWLY DICOVERED DANCEABLE RECORDS".DJ's stop looking at your navel and your mates and lets sort this crap out. I'm into northern soul ie uptempo based motown sounding sixties music.....You can stick your rare soul where the sun don't shine,I'm not into rare soul,......which can be anything but not necessarily dance music.Northern soul all the way....FFS it might even get exciting and we might even get converts on the way .

I don't disagree with the sentiment at all and certainly don't wanna get embroiled in the discussion that's been had a million times before. Good, soulful records are just that, surely, and if it's danceable, they'll dance. Not good enough is just that, whatever label you attach to it, and the whole 'rare' tag that folk throw around tends, in my experience, to be just as misleading and misplaced as all the rest. I can certainly think of loads of very rare 'oldies' for instance and I'm afraid that if you think 'rare' means not danceable per se you've missed out massively somewhere along the line bud.

Personally, I wish there were far more quality mid tempo records being played on todays scene; some of the greatest things ever played were less than uptempo IMHO but then I'm a child of the 80s all-nighter which maybe explain that particular quirk. Defo not averse to the odd beat ballad either

Anyway, whatever you wanna call it I too wish we could see more new blood on today's scene but suspect I we'd best not hold our breath

  On 28/10/2010 at 23:42, Stevie said:

Can't see the problem - you must be inundated with venues playing what you want?

You are joking.....it's usually oldies from boots/CDs or collectors impressing their mates with rubbish obscurities from the mid seventies sixties reject pile....which is why I started my own gig! I love UK Sue.boogaloo r&b stuff and I have a 500 box of early reggae ska/bluebeat stuff plus loads of Cotique/Fania Tico 45's and a great collection of jazz lps etc....but i do have a problem when people play it and call it northern soul.It isn't!!! I'ts the emperors new clothes scenario.People are digging everything but the basics of those great records played at The late Twisted Wheel/Torch/Wigan etc..its like the motown uptempo soul beat is uncool.....we need claves/bongos/latin piano.....early r&b guitar.........bo diddley riffs........anything that isn't Motown based. Re the above "child of the eighties".I do feel that the young kids of today have taken to the uptempo beat like it or not and the days of the collector as deejay are numbered.........Im even worried about vinyl (they honestly dont care).Last Crossfire there were loads of them.........anyone over 40 and you were in a minority. Theres no room for mid tempo....thats so eighties!

Edited October 29, 201014 yr by wiggyflat

All together now.....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oh99A86HraY

  On 28/10/2010 at 23:52, PhilT said:

I don't disagree with the sentiment at all and certainly don't wanna get embroiled in the discussion that's been had a million times before. Good, soulful records are just that, surely, and if it's danceable, they'll dance. Not good enough is just that, whatever label you attach to it, and the whole 'rare' tag that folk throw around tends, in my experience, to be just as misleading and misplaced as all the rest. I can certainly think of loads of very rare 'oldies' for instance and I'm afraid that if you think 'rare' means not danceable per se you've missed out massively somewhere along the line bud.

Personally, I wish there were far more quality mid tempo records being played on todays scene; some of the greatest things ever played were less than uptempo IMHO but then I'm a child of the 80s all-nighter which maybe explain that particular quirk. Defo not averse to the odd beat ballad either

Anyway, whatever you wanna call it I too wish we could see more new blood on today's scene but suspect I we'd best not hold our breath

He knows what he likes - Thats his point - 60s uptempo dancers - which is exactly what I love and always collect .

But I also love Funk -Boogaloo - Ska - Beat Ballads - Popcorn and Jazz

I like lots of things !

But I fear we are getting well off topic !

  On 29/10/2010 at 00:03, Mace said:

All together now.....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oh99A86HraY

I thought he was your mate ?

Edited October 29, 201014 yr by mossy

  On 29/10/2010 at 00:07, mossy said:

He knows what he likes - Thats his point - 60s uptempo dancers - which is exactly what I love and always collect .

But I also love Funk -Boogaloo - Ska - Beat Ballads - Popcorn and Jazz

I like lots of things !

But I fear we are getting well off topic !

And thats what I love and part of what I collect and listen to but I dont want to hear it at a "northern soul night". If that is what rare soul is then so be it but don't tell me it's a "northern soul night ".