...............do the terms actually mean? Indeed are they the same?

I am taking them to mean that the records were never actually sent out/distributed to shops/outlets by the record company.

Therefore, a record such as My Love For You by Marvin Gaye is described by Nev when he posted it in Refosoul as Unreleased. Does that mean that he got hold of a copy that was never sold by a record shop as it were?

Would a DJ copy that never went into shops be unissued/unreleased or is the term only used to describe songs that are from some sort of master tape that languished for years in vaults of Record Companies?

Bored Saturday afternoon sort of question.

KTF.

Drew.

Edited October 23, 201014 yr by Drew3

I wouldn't say a 'DJ' copy was unreleased, it physically does exist, they were sent out as promotional tools etc, for me unreleased means never to have had an official physical release at its inception, then in the majority of cases it does get a release albeit years later, loads of examples, for instance...Sam Dees 'Fool Of The Year' just brought out on Shotgun etc, etc.

Brett

Just to add loads of Kent stuff (cd's etc) have unreleased material, so in effect they no longer are unreleased are they..?

Edited October 23, 201014 yr by Brett F

It is a term normally applied to a song that never saw any form of mass produced, commercially available hard copy, in any format that was contemporary to it's recording. The source of these tracks is normally master tapes or acetates.

Dave

Edited October 23, 201014 yr by Dave Thorley

  On 23/10/2010 at 14:22, Dave Thorley said:

It is a term normally applied to a song that never saw any form of mass produced, commercially available hard copy, in any format that was contemporary to it's recording. The source of these tracks is normally master tapes or acetates.

Dave

Dave , I'm sure you will know but what is a Private Pressing ? 'cause see loads on e-bay but not quite sure what it means

Swifty

P.S. used to buy Private magazine (but sure everybody could buy it )

  On 23/10/2010 at 11:55, Drew3 said:

...............do the terms actually mean? Indeed are they the same?

I am taking them to mean that the records were never actually sent out/distributed to shops/outlets by the record company.

Therefore, a record such as My Love For You by Marvin Gaye is described by Nev when he posted it in Refosoul as Unreleased. Does that mean that he got hold of a copy that was never sold by a record shop as it were?

Would a DJ copy that never went into shops be unissued/unreleased or is the term only used to describe songs that are from some sort of master tape that languished for years in vaults of Record Companies?

Bored Saturday afternoon sort of question.

KTF.

Drew.

Hi Drew...not so much bored but it's raining and i've got man flu ..so thank the lord for soulsource eh:thumbsup:

The Marvin Gaye track i referred to as un-issued is because i believe it turned up yrs later on a tape and was put on a cd if memory serves me right?

Un-issued to me means it was recorded but was either put on a "reel to reel" tape or maybe an acetate test press but shelved for whatever reason .

demos were given to radio stations to promote so technically i wouldnt say they fall into the un-issued criteria myself?

And for the record i believe whoever found the tape and put the Marvin song to cd probably owns the rights ,hence the reason i have never put it on a carver nor do i own a copy ...just a mp3 file for my own personal pleasure:)

  On 23/10/2010 at 14:28, SWIFTY said:

Dave , I'm sure you will know but what is a Private Pressing ? 'cause see loads on e-bay but not quite sure what it means

Swifty

P.S. used to buy Private magazine (but sure everybody could buy it )

A private pressing is made by the artist and or their management to try and promote the act, usually only in runs of 100 or so. In the UK, private pressings mainly refer to rare psych and folk albums, some of which were pressed in minute quantities, under 50 copies.

This is a term used when there is no label name, and/or it is factually known that the artists pressed the record himself with his own finances with no outside involvement. Their are a few 45's & LP's like this, eg Early Clover - Early Clover Records. Much more common with the arrival of CD's

Thanks Chaps , so in theory if it's a private pressing it's rare ?

  On 23/10/2010 at 14:34, Pete S said:

A private pressing is made by the artist and or their management to try and promote the act, usually only in runs of 100 or so. In the UK, private pressings mainly refer to rare psych and folk albums, some of which were pressed in minute quantities, under 50 copies.

In the U.S. guys can be pressing up to 5000 copies on their own financies, but it is more common that they are between 200-1000. These are done not just for promotion, but often to sell at gigs and to put into local shops for sale by the artist. These rarely see a distributor and in the mists of time often become the truely rare records we all search for.

  On 23/10/2010 at 14:39, Dave Thorley said:

These are done not just for promotion, but often to sell at gigs and to put into local shops for sale by the artist.

In other words, for promotion

  On 23/10/2010 at 14:32, NEV said:

Hi Drew...not so much bored but it's raining and i've got man flu ..so thank the lord for soulsource eh:thumbsup:

The Marvin Gaye track i referred to as un-issued is because i believe it turned up yrs later on a tape and was put on a cd if memory serves me right?

Un-issued to me means it was recorded but was either put on a "reel to reel" tape or maybe an acetate test press but shelved for whatever reason .

demos were given to radio stations to promote so technically i wouldnt say they fall into the un-issued criteria myself?

And for the record i believe whoever found the tape and put the Marvin song to cd probably owns the rights ,hence the reason i have never put it on a carver nor do i own a copy ...just a mp3 file for my own personal pleasure:)

Thanks for the replies chaps.

Nev. I agree with you about the track being an absolute belter by Marvin Gaye and I cannot believe Motown (I'm assuming it would have been that company) never put it up for release!!!

KTF.

Drew.

As one who spends a lot of his working year dabbling in the realms of the unissued and unreleased, I do make a distinction between the two terms.

I tend to use 'previously unissued' as a means of describing something that has never ever been in a commerically available format at any time since its recording date - such as, for example, Spencer Wiggins' 'I'm At the Breaking Point' was until it came out on the Kent CD.

'previously unreleased' or 'previously commercially unreleased' technically describes something that may have made it as far as being manufactured for press and promotional purposes but that didn't actually get as far as being manufactured for resale - or, if it did get manufactured for resale, that was withdrawn from sale prior to actually hitting retail outlets, Chris Jackson's 'Since There's No Doubt' would be a decent example of a record that you could accurately describe as 'previously unreleased'

I know a lot of people will think that I'm being extremely pedantic with this degree of separation, but that's how I sort my 'unissued's from my 'unreleased's and I'm sticking to it!

Edited October 25, 201014 yr by TONY ROUNCE

  On 25/10/2010 at 18:18, TONY ROUNCE said:

I know a lot of people will think that I'm being extremely pedantic with this degree of separation, but that's how I sort my 'unissued's from my 'unreleased's and I'm sticking to it!

In some specialist fields, this kind of pedantry is very helpful. Now if you could just persuade everybody else to work with this mighty sensible nomenclature that would be lovely.

Lots of Artists did private press generally they sold them at their live gigs or the boot of their car, self financed. Happened a lot in the UK with the local social club acts, use to get them of the acts when I DJ'd in holiday camps along the north wales coast.

The SRT label in the UK specialised in custom pressings.Theres an album on that label from 71 by Grannie worth £800. They also pressed up a lot of club sort of acts that were sold at Butlins etc I believe they pressed up in limited runs to avoid some sort of tax as did the UK Purdah label (releases 99 copies).Oak was another UK label that specialised in very limited runs and they didn't specialise in any sort of music.I suppose it was some sort of cottage industry in limited pressings.Lyntone pressed up flexi discs for all sorts of uses....company promotion/Readers Digest etc etc.

On the soul side. Can previously unreleased tracks like The Producers-What Is this,Mirwood Orch-Oh My Darlin etc be classed as originals then (always lived in my boot box).

https://www.djhistory.com/features/working-man%E2%80%99s-soul

Edited October 25, 201014 yr by wiggyflat

  On 25/10/2010 at 22:09, wiggyflat said:

The SRT label in the UK specialised in custom pressings.Theres an album on that label from 71 by Grannie worth £800. They also pressed up a lot of club sort of acts that were sold at Butlins etc I believe they pressed up in limited runs to avoid some sort of tax as did the UK Purdah label (releases 99 copies).Oak was another UK label that specialised in very limited runs and they didn't specialise in any sort of music.I suppose it was some sort of cottage industry in limited pressings.Lyntone pressed up flexi discs for all sorts of uses....company promotion/Readers Digest etc etc.

On the soul side. Can previously unreleased tracks like The Producers-What Is this,Mirwood Orch-Oh My Darlin etc be classed as originals then (always lived in my boot box).

https://www.djhistory...%E2%80%99s-soul

Got a few of them usualy autographed

  On 25/10/2010 at 18:18, TONY ROUNCE said:

As one who spends a lot of his working year dabbling in the realms of the unissued and unreleased, I do make a distinction between the two terms.

I tend to use 'previously unissued' as a means of describing something that has never ever been in a commerically available format at any time since its recording date - such as, for example, Spencer Wiggins' 'I'm At the Breaking Point' was until it came out on the Kent CD.

'previously unreleased' or 'previously commercially unreleased' technically describes something that may have made it as far as being manufactured for press and promotional purposes but that didn't actually get as far as being manufactured for resale - or, if it did get manufactured for resale, that was withdrawn from sale prior to actually hitting retail outlets, Chris Jackson's 'Since There's No Doubt' would be a decent example of a record that you could accurately describe as 'previously unreleased'

I know a lot of people will think that I'm being extremely pedantic with this degree of separation, but that's how I sort my 'unissued's from my 'unreleased's and I'm sticking to it!

Yep. I think I'd go along with that. Emminently sensible.

There's a bit of a weird one at the moment with the Otis Williams record "Take Me Back"/"I Got To Have You" which was manufactured (hence a handful of copies got out) but by all accounts the rest never made it to the marketplace as the label was actually a tax dodge apparently. You can 'lose' a lot of money 'manufacturing' records which never make it to the marketplace, so it's never exactly black and white LOL.......

I guess Frank Wilson would fall into a similar catergory but different if you see what I mean.............

Ian D

Edited October 25, 201014 yr by Ian Dewhirst