Offering A Record For 'offers' What Is Expected?

[Ged Parker]

I wasn't going to post this (and this may be in the wrong section anyway so mods feel free to move it) but it would be interesting to know peoples views.

Let's say a record is put up on here for offers over £X and that there is a closing time for offers to be made.

Just before the 'closing time' two potential bidders email to ask what the current high bid is.

Firstly should the seller disclose what the high bid is? It's a bit of a mute point now but interested in opinions.

Anyway lets say he does and its £X + 75 one of the potential bidders comes back with an offer of £X + 85 before the closing time and the other with a bid of £X + 100 well after the closing time.

Of course neither bidder knows about the others bid and the seller could just take the £X +100 bid.

Should he also let the previous high bidder know when they've been 'outbid' ?

But should he?

Should a closing time be a firm deadline?

What about if after the seller has accepted one offer and agreed a timeframe for the buyer to pay (In the process pissing off the other bidders) the accepted bidder then doesn't pay or contact the seller to explain why they haven't.

Obviously all the people involved will know who they are but I've tried to keep this 'theoretical' to save embarrasment or indeed their partners reading what they spend on records lol.

I'm not going to get all riled about it - these things happen but in trying to be straight with people I've upset others and that wasn't what I intended to do. I just wanted to sell a record.

These a lot to be said for getting John Manship to auction records for you

[Guest TONY ROUNCE]

Should a closing time be a firm deadline?

Yes, it should - absolutely and without exception.

If an auction is due to finish at, say, six o'clock, it should finish at six o' clock - never mind the 'if I get a firn bid in at two minutes to six I'll extend it another 10 minutes in case the previous high bidder wants to have another go' attitude that seems to (wrongly) define some sellers' ideas of what an auction is.

If you go to Sotheby's with the aim of buying something rare, precious and beautiful, and you haven't got your best bid in when the auctioneer brings the mallet down, that's the end of it. He doesn't turn round and say 'I'm just going to hang on another few minutes in case someone else fancies bettering the current best bid', does he?

You snooze, you lose. That's what winning auctions is all about, not 'you snooze, you get outbid, you get another chance to up the ante'.

I simply won't bid on any seller's auctions that don't finish when they're scheduled to. I admit that I have done so in the past, but not anymore, no matter how badly I want the record in question - I don't see why I should sit at the PC increasing my increment ad infinitum, in an attempt to pander to avarice.

Say what you will about eBay, their auctions end when they are supposed to and whoever's the highest bidder (or sniper) at the advised ending time of the auction is the winner - just the way it should be...

Edited October 5, 2010 by TONY ROUNCE

[NEV]

Yes, it should - absolutely and without exception.

If an auction is due to finish at, say, six o'clock, it should finish at six o' clock - never mind the 'if I get a firn bid in at two minutes to six I'll extend it another 10 minutes in case the previous high bidder wants to have another go' attitude that seems to (wrongly) define some sellers' ideas of what an auction is.

If you go to Sotheby's with the aim of buying something rare, precious and beautiful, and you haven't got your best bid in when the auctioneer brings the mallet down, that's the end of it. He doesn't turn round and say 'I'm just going to hang on another few minutes in case someone else fancies bettering the current best bid', does he?

You snooze, you lose. That's what winning auctions is all about, not 'you snooze, you get outbid, you get another chance to up the ante'.

I simply won't bid on any seller's auctions that don't finish when they're scheduled to. I admit that I have done so in the past, but not anymore, no matter how badly I want the record in question - I don't see why I should sit at the PC increasing my increment ad infinitum, in an attempt to pander to avarice.

Say what you will about eBay, their auctions end when they are supposed to and whoever's the highest bidder (or sniper) at the advised ending time of the auction is the winner - just the way it should be...

Logic would say your right Tony and morality too ,but i think we covered this on here before.

regarding John's auction , i seem to recall he clearly stated his rules regarding the extended deadline .

If the rules are in place then you either accept them or you don't ,which translates to ,bid or don't .

All auctions have a grey area no matter what the rules are ...shill bidding being the more obvious and serious flout of the rules ..but what about auctions on here or some other big name auctions (no need to mention names)

Run on a basis of trust where you put in a bid and there is no increment set in place .

You phone up or email asking for current price or are told the minimum bid ....supposing you really want the rare 45 and the minimum bid is £600 and the closing date is this Friday ........you put in a bid of £1000 ....what if the closest bid was £700 ????

You still pay the £1000 ,why ??

Supposing you ask for the latest figure and are told it's £900 ...how do you know that's true when you don't know who's bidding and can't see any visible means of proof ??

Theoretically you were willing to pay a £1000 so should you be happy ??

Like i said ,it's based on trust ......give me ebay or John Manship any day of the week ,at least you can see who your bidding against ,albeit a username .

It's not an easy one to call though is it ...i guess it really only comes down to how much you are willing to pay or can afford !

[The Tempest]

I have been " gazumped " , twice NOT by buying from tried and tested / respected dealers BUT by sellers who I thought would of known better and clearly did'nt !!! , playing two punters off against each other in a bidding war after the deadline had passed to squeeze the maximum amount out ,it was only much later I got the full story ........

Edited October 5, 2010 by 123-motown

[Tabs]

Interesting question.

I think you have to be very careful about exactly what process you are adopting , an auction or an offer.

I presume that people will offer what the record is worth to them at that point in time.

Especially as you have effectively set a reserve.

For each offer I would just send a courtesy mail saying thanks for your interest and I'll let you know at the appointed time if you were successful.

If its an auction then most people will see the price and increase their bids to what they are prepared to pay, or "bid fever" takes over.

If its an offer then wait until the end of the time you set.

Then let everyone else know what the final price was, perhaps telling the second highest offer they can have it for that price, (or what they offered) if the winner back out.

Cheers

[KevH]

Putting records up for bids says a few things.

The record is in demand at the moment.Therefore of interest to one or more parties.

The record is rare/hard to source.

There is no firm price at the time on this record.

Very hard to do a bids sale,without arousing the suspicions of some.

The answer is set sales.?.Set prices?.Offers by pm.?

[Ged Parker]

Some thought prevoking stuff guys thanks for your views.

For the record (excuse the pun) I offered it to the person who offered £X + 85 just before the advertised closing time. This was much to the annoyance of the person who offered me £X + 100 but IMHO too late.

I also had a small debate with the person who had offered me £X + 75 saying they should have been told they were 'outbid'. I hadn't anticipated they would want to offer more as they had made an offer not a 'bid' as far as I saw it.

The last thing I wanted was to spend a lot of time bartering or playing people off against one another. As has been said I set a reserve and sold it to the person that made the best offer above the reserve before the set deadline.

I think that was the fairest thing to do but I'll be placing a load of explanitory notes if I ever put up a record for offers on here again. As I say there a lot to be said for giving John Manship his cut and removing all the hassle.

[KevH]

and of course we have'nt mentioned "mates rates" when bidding.....

Edited October 6, 2010 by KevH

[pikeys dog]

Simple to me, "Offers" is just that.

Someone makes an offer and the seller decides whether to take it or not.

The seller can chose to sell it to another buyer for less if they feel that way inclined.

There's no contract verbal or otherwise until the seller accepts the offer by return, then they should honour that sale even if someone weighs in later with a higher offer.

[John A]

Yes, it should - absolutely and without exception.

If an auction is due to finish at, say, six o'clock, it should finish at six o' clock - never mind the 'if I get a firn bid in at two minutes to six I'll extend it another 10 minutes in case the previous high bidder wants to have another go' attitude that seems to (wrongly) define some sellers' ideas of what an auction is.

This is exactly how Mr Manships auctions work,it might be 2 minutes not 10 but you can regularly see bidders scrapping it out 15/20 minutes after the original closing time.

If you go to Sotheby's with the aim of buying something rare, precious and beautiful, and you haven't got your best bid in when the auctioneer brings the mallet down, that's the end of it. He doesn't turn round and say 'I'm just going to hang on another few minutes in case someone else fancies bettering the current best bid', does he?

Of course he does.There's no set closing time. Ok,he won't wait minutes but he'll delay that hammer till everybody's finished. if you haven't got your best bid in by then it'll be your own fault cos you probably missed the auction all together.

You snooze, you lose. That's what winning auctions is all about, not 'you snooze, you get outbid, you get another chance to up the ante'.

I simply won't bid on any seller's auctions that don't finish when they're scheduled to. I admit that I have done so in the past, but not anymore, no matter how badly I want the record in question - I don't see why I should sit at the PC increasing my increment ad infinitum, in an attempt to pander to avarice.

Say what you will about eBay, their auctions end when they are supposed to and whoever's the highest bidder (or sniper) at the advised ending time of the auction is the winner - just the way it should be...

[paultp]

When anyone puts up "sales" lists on here asking for offers - I never bother with them.

2 reasons: I used to put in offers but people were too rude to reply - I don't mind being told I'm a skinflint ,

Secondly; asking for offers is just based on greed, it is a state of mind people get into when they can't sell records in case whoever buys them sells them on for more or someone sells the same record for more a month later. Record prices go up and down - live with it.

As far as I'm concerned if you want the most for an in-demand record - put it on ebay or send it to that nice Mr Manship and advertise the fact that you have - it will find its price.

A sales list should have prices .......

....... then you can offer less!

Edited October 7, 2010 by paultp

[Guest TONY ROUNCE]

I didn't phrase my second paragraph as well as I might have done -what I really meant was that once a Sotheby's/Christie's etc. auction has closed, it's closed for everyone and the item is sold to the person who was the highes bidder at the time of its closing. At the point of closure the auctioneer doesnt say 'going, going, here let's hang on another 10 minutes just in case any of the low bidders feel like upping the ante' does he?

[paultp]

I didn't phrase my second paragraph as well as I might have done -what I really meant was that once a Sotheby's/Christie's etc. auction has closed, it's closed for everyone and the item is sold to the person who was the highes bidder at the time of its closing. At the point of closure the auctioneer doesnt say 'going, going, here let's hang on another 10 minutes just in case any of the low bidders feel like upping the ante' does he?

The thing is though that Sotheby's/Christies auctions are usually live and they don't stop until everyone stops bidding and the auctioneer will give people time to bid before closing cos they make more money that way. Once everyone stops bidding then the auction stops.

It is only ebay (and its lookey-likeys) that has a time limit on bids, mainly because it has to - it is automatic and that is the best way to end an automatic auction.

I've never seriously bid on JM's auction (can't afford the records and/or prices get too high for what they are) but I reckon that as it is a mix of online and phone (and possibly somebody standing next to him!) he is right to keep it open until everyone stops bidding. He's quite clear about the rules too.

As for the other web site soul 45 auctions, I've never thought they were particularly transparent so haven't considered them. I'm not saying they aren't kosher, I just don't think they are transparent enough to make a judgement.

Can't remember what the thread was about now anyway