What Is Crossover?

[Premium Stuff]

Hi all

I have been listening to and collecting rare northern since I was 17 (I'm now 47)

Not a club-goer though since the early 80s, which might explain what follows to those of you who are . . .

It struck me that I don't really know what crossover is - I couln't define it properly or explain it to someone

In between northern and modern I thought - in between 60s and 70s I thought - stuff like Ruby Andrews - Just Loving You maybe? - not quite 60s or Modern - just in between - transitional - crossover

But the kind of stuff I have seen in recent months described as crossover just puzzles me - as a lot of it sounds either solid late 60s or definitely modern - so what is is crossover then?

Help me out guys - I'm stumped - isn't it just easier to say it's 60s, 70s, 80s etc?

Cheers

Richard

Edited August 31, 2010 by Premium Stuff

[Sean Hampsey]

In between northern and modern, in between 60s and 70s I thought - stuff like Ruby Andrews - Just Loving You maybe? - not quite 60s or Modern - just in between - transitional - crossover.

Yep. That sums it up nicely.

:-)

Sean

[Dylan]

Hi all

I have been listening to and collecting rare northern since I was 17 (I'm now 47)

Not a club-goer though since the early 80s, which might explain what follows to those of you who are . . .

It struck me that I don't really know what crossover is - I couln't define it properly or explain it to someone

In between northern and modern I thought - in between 60s and 70s I thought - stuff like Ruby Andrews - Just Loving You maybe? - not quite 60s or Modern - just in between - transitional - crossover

But the kind of stuff I have seen in recent months described as crossover just puzzles me - as a lot of it sounds either solid late 60s or definitely modern - so what is is crossover then?

Help me out guys - I'm stumped - isn't it just easier to say it's 60s, 70s, 80s etc?

Cheers

Richard

I think people have been deliberateoly trying to catch you out by listing modern and northern as x-over

eddie parker "i'm gone" is a perfect example of x-over.

[Premium Stuff]

C

In between northern and modern, in between 60s and 70s I thought - stuff like Ruby Andrews - Just Loving You maybe? - not quite 60s or Modern - just in between - transitional - crossover.

Yep. That sums it up nicely.

:-)

Sean

Cheers Sean - but my point was that there is loads of stuff described as 'crossover' that isn't - it's one or the other - is it a lazy category or just getting broader as it get's more mainstream?

I am a splitter not a lumper!!

Cheers

Richard

[Guest]

Hi all

I have been listening to and collecting rare northern since I was 17 (I'm now 47)

Not a club-goer though since the early 80s, which might explain what follows to those of you who are . . .

It struck me that I don't really know what crossover is - I couln't define it properly or explain it to someone

In between northern and modern I thought - in between 60s and 70s I thought - stuff like Ruby Andrews - Just Loving You maybe? - not quite 60s or Modern - just in between - transitional - crossover

But the kind of stuff I have seen in recent months described as crossover just puzzles me - as a lot of it sounds either solid late 60s or definitely modern - so what is is crossover then?

Help me out guys - I'm stumped - isn't it just easier to say it's 60s, 70s, 80s etc?

Cheers

Richard

go and find the "crossover" thread and listen to some of the tunes on refo soul !

i think you will be an expert after a few hours

oh.............. and another load of tunes on the wants list !!!

The Sunlovers - my poor heart is one of my fav Soul tunes that seems to be classed as crossover.

I know what you mean by putting things in boxes

its all Soul music from different years and tempos.

But we have to define it somehow I suppose

Edited August 31, 2010 by mossy

[Sean Hampsey]

C

Cheers Sean - but my point was that there is loads of stuff described as 'crossover' that isn't - it's one or the other - is it a lazy category or just getting broader as it get's more mainstream?

I am a splitter not a lumper!!

Cheers

Richard

Those who don't seem to know better have corrupted the original definition, Richard.

But they're wrong.

Sean

[KevH]

C

Cheers Sean - but my point was that there is loads of stuff described as 'crossover' that isn't - it's one or the other - is it a lazy category or just getting broader as it get's more mainstream?

I am a splitter not a lumper!!

Cheers

Richard

its trendy to refer to it as Xover apparently.My question is what's a splitter or lumper?

Good luck in your quest Richard.

[Premium Stuff]

I think people have been deliberateoly trying to catch you out by listing modern and northern as x-over

eddie parker "i'm gone" is a perfect example of x-over.

Is that just it?

Or am I a crossover conspiracy theorist?

I'm going to look at that "oooh nurse, it's another crossover Friday" thread and see how many so-called crossover are just northern or modern

You guys ...

Not convinced yet

Cheers

Richard

[Premium Stuff]

its trendy to refer to it as Xover apparently.My question is what's a splitter or lumper?

Good luck in your quest Richard.

I know you know this ... but anyway

A splitter divides things endlessly into detailed categories - e.g. mid-60s, Detroit, non-Motown, mid-tempo, girl group, promo release only etc etc

A lumper looks at the generic categories and keeping clumping things together into big groups (e.g. crossover)

Like I said - I knew you already knew that

Cheers

Richard

[Mal C]

It's a good question; and a very used and abused term... in the Northern / Modern scene sense I've always thought a late sixties early 7ts recording that used the new production techniques around at the time...

Classic example, THE classic : Margie Joseph - One More chance / Volt

cant mention that side without mentioning the flip of course.. Never can you be.....

Mal

Edited August 31, 2010 by Mal.C.

[Sean Hampsey]

Previous threads:

Sean

[Codfromderby]

could it be some of the stuff we all love today that we would have chucked away 30 odd years ago, not saying its crap or in fact not brilliant in some cases, times and tastes have changed, its that more soul less dance rather than tempo driven, could be something to do with age, its a lot easier to dance to "these memories" than it is to dance to "we were made for each other"

belita woods-magic corner, sums it up (i typed this before noticing that the aformentioned record was your avatar thing (i,m sure them karen ones are dodgy)

Edited August 31, 2010 by codfromderby

[Guest]

Previous threads:

Sean

yeah !

i suppose its down to your own definition of the term !!!!!

but I would say its (mostly) soul music that has evolved out of the 60s but still has great appeal on the uk soul scene which is still (on the most part) 60s

based.

Clyde mcphatter - one more chance - decca

another early 70s or 1969 production that is totally fantastic that took me down another musical path - but was accepted on the northern scene

its all great music when its that nice.

I suppose its like the rnb and the latin soul bits - some of the nicest bits get picked up and fit in and become accepted and enjoyed in soul clubs ?

it all makes for an interesting time !

bobby reed - the time is right for love - bell

how nice is that 45 ?

Edited August 31, 2010 by mossy

[Guest rosies dad]

Richard, you think its confusing for you, try being a 32 year old record collector from the states where

we've never had a northern soul scene, never classed any records as northern, crossover or modern!...

my heads been spinning for years! haha

[Guest]

Richard, you think its confusing for you, try being a 32 year old record collector from the states where

we've never had a northern soul scene, never classed any records as northern, crossover or modern!...

my heads been spinning for years! haha

Brill post mate !

Its all just old Soul music !

A mate of mine can't understand the boxes we put everything into.

He loves music and collects all sorts - he does me tapes (yes still tapes) of all types of tunes that span all decades and all styles.

It is all meant fit together like that for him (and does). He just loves digging for music.

He has got some cracking 60s northern obscurities, loads of obscure funk - right through to early disco, ska and reggae !

I have much respect for people who are this much into all types of music !

Great fun !

[Sean Hampsey]

Richard, you think its confusing for you, try being a 32 year old record collector from the states where

we've never had a northern soul scene, never classed any records as northern, crossover or modern!...

my heads been spinning for years! haha

You're better off in that situation, I reckon.

Where its all Just Soul.

Some good, some bad.

And none of the bollotix that goes on over here!

Sean

[Guest]

You're better off in that situation, I reckon.

Where its all Just Soul.

Some good, some bad.

And none of the bollotix that goes on over here!

Sean

The Volumes - Ive never been so in love - garu

I am saving up for this record

Could someone please post it up for me !

Thats a crossover sound !

Does anyone know anything about this version of "the volumes"

I know they aint got nothing to do with the Detroit band (inferno/impact/american arts)

They were from texas or somewhere south I think

Anyone know anything about the band?

Edited August 31, 2010 by mossy

[Steve G]

You're better off in that situation, I reckon.

Where its all Just Soul.

Some good, some bad.

And none of the bollotix that goes on over here!

Sean

Agree 100% with Sean - good records / bad records - we are obsessed with pidgeonholing them all the time

I think the baggage the UK scene carries around it's shoulders is collosal. Must be nice not to have it all Rosie's Dad.

[Guest soulhawks45s]

Agree 100% with Sean - good records / bad records - we are obsessed with pidgeonholing them all the time

I think the baggage the UK scene carries around it's shoulders is collosal. Must be nice not to have it all Rosie's Dad.

TOTALLY agree with that statement.

The "C" word is banned within my circle of Soulies

It's just SOUL - 60's 70's 80's ...... SHIMPLE !

[Guest rosies dad]

in a way it is nice, but at the same time id like to understand all the pigeonholes just because.. And well honestly this thread has thrown me for a loop.. If youd asked me before id have said that i mainly collect northern type records, but after listening to a few examples of crossover in this thread i guess i now would say i collect mainly crossover hahaha. When it comes down to it, it doesnt matter, especially over here, but it sure is confusing! -jacob

[Pete S]

could it be some of the stuff we all love today that we would have chucked away 30 odd years ago, not saying its crap or in fact not brilliant in some cases, times and tastes have changed, its that more soul less dance rather than tempo driven, could be something to do with age, its a lot easier to dance to "these memories" than it is to dance to "we were made for each other"

belita woods-magic corner, sums it up (i typed this before noticing that the aformentioned record was your avatar thing (i,m sure them karen ones are dodgy)

Spot on really. Remember when you used to get soul packs in the 70's and threw away all the ones that weren't Northern? Well we did anyway. The stuff you chucked away was mostly crossover. Like when you got a great record, played the A side to death, tried the B side once and found it was forgettable and never went back to it. That's crossover as well. Of all of the different genres that comprise Northern Soul, crossover is the weakest because it was poor then and it hasn't improved over time, unlike say R & B which was obviously good back then but now sounds even better. You just have to get a record that's not northern but has the faintest trace of a beat, you call it crossover, it's so easy to do and it saves you finding any of the real stuff.

Naturally there are the odd exceptions, but on the whole, 99% of what I've heard is garbage. The Margie Joseph record that Mal mentions above is one of the greatest soul records ever made, it's an insult to describe it as crossover.

I feel so much better after a good rant.

[Pete S]

yeah !

i suppose its down to your own definition of the term !!!!!

but I would say its (mostly) soul music that has evolved out of the 60s but still has great appeal on the uk soul scene which is still (on the most part) 60s

based.

Clyde mcphatter - one more chance - decca

another early 70s or 1969 production that is totally fantastic that took me down another musical path - but was accepted on the northern scene

its all great music when its that nice.

I suppose its like the rnb and the latin soul bits - some of the nicest bits get picked up and fit in and become accepted and enjoyed in soul clubs ?

it all makes for an interesting time !

bobby reed - the time is right for love - bell

how nice is that 45 ?

But the Clyde McPhatter was played as far back as 75 and never thought of as anything else but pure Northern Soul.

[redcoupe]

didnt,crossover mean from a record on the northern/soul scene moving into mainstream charts in the early days but now probably has a different meaning,trying to find out what is popcorn is another question theres too many sub/sections now ...... imho....k

Hi all

I have been listening to and collecting rare northern since I was 17 (I'm now 47)

Not a club-goer though since the early 80s, which might explain what follows to those of you who are . . .

It struck me that I don't really know what crossover is - I couln't define it properly or explain it to someone

In between northern and modern I thought - in between 60s and 70s I thought - stuff like Ruby Andrews - Just Loving You maybe? - not quite 60s or Modern - just in between - transitional - crossover

But the kind of stuff I have seen in recent months described as crossover just puzzles me - as a lot of it sounds either solid late 60s or definitely modern - so what is is crossover then?

Help me out guys - I'm stumped - isn't it just easier to say it's 60s, 70s, 80s etc?

Cheers

Richard

[Gary Samways]

But the Clyde McPhatter was played as far back as 75 and never thought of as anything else but pure Northern Soul.

couldn't agree more pete, i saw this advertised for sale recently as great crossover and pissed myself

it seems to me that crossover means one of two things;

a) nothing

or

b) anything

[Guest steve jay]

Well back in the day Soul Bowl record lists had a section entitled "Soulful Dance" which was full of "Crossover " records , If you just want to dance to a beat (either Northern or Modern and not much interesested in the Soulful content ,Crossover isnt for you. The clue is in SOULFUL , you will hear in rooms described as connoiseurs sessions at weekenders etc, at some ATB events etc at Venues that proudly proclaim to play SOUL MUSIC .................you wont here Crossover Soul at Scooter Rallies ,Oldies nights onThe Dale Winton or The Paul Ogrady Shows on Radio 2

Yes Pete it is good to rant:rolleyes:

[Pete S]

Well back in the day Soul Bowl record lists had a section entitled "Soulful Dance" which was full of "Crossover " records , If you just want to dance to a beat (either Northern or Modern and not much interesested in the Soulful content ,Crossover isnt for you. The clue is in SOULFUL , you will hear in rooms described as connoiseurs sessions at weekenders etc, at some ATB events etc at Venues that proudly proclaim to play SOUL MUSIC .................you wont here Crossover Soul at Scooter Rallies ,Oldies nights onThe Dale Winton or The Paul Ogrady Shows on Radio 2

Yes Pete it is good to rant:rolleyes:

Just because it's soulful doesn't mean it's any good though or you'd want to hear them though - most soul records are soulful!

[Simon M]

Soul Pack records thats now sound good as we have lived a little more. Nice with a cup of tea and a digestive lol

[Pete S]

Soul Pack records thats now sound good as we have lived a little more. Nice with a cup of tea and a digestive lol

They still sound as bad to me now as they did then. It's just boring elevator music. If people love it, that's fine, I just don't like seeing it passed off as Northern Soul.

I remember when Goldmine issued their first Crossover Soul cd, the catchily entitled "Crossover Soul" and I bought it and listened to it and I remember thinking to myself, it comes to something when that f*cking awful Lynn Varnardo track is the best one on the cd. The rest, I forgot immediately and still can't remember any apart from Ruby Andrews.

[Guest steve jay]

Just because it's soulful doesn't mean it's any good though or you'd want to hear them though - most soul records are soulful!

Yes quite right Pete but to some the Soul is more important than the tempo , Tempo being the reason they were in Soul packs in the 70s along with many of the midtempo Northern tunes that gained much favour at Stafford etc a few years later Simon !!

Probably one of the best "crossover style" records is Lynn Varnado Wash And Wear Love , now people on the "Crossover Scene " wouldnt descibe it as such (surely an Oldie) and plenty of people on the Northern scene today would say but it isnt "Northern" ,but it was popular enough back in the mid 70s to get booted .

Its not what to call it , its how it feels , Soulful is good enough for me

[Pete S]

Yes quite right Pete but to some the Soul is more important than the tempo , Tempo being the reason they were in Soul packs in the 70s along with many of the midtempo Northern tunes that gained much favour at Stafford etc a few years later Simon !!

Probably one of the best "crossover style" records is Lynn Varnado Wash And Wear Love , now people on the "Crossover Scene " wouldnt descibe it as such (surely an Oldie) and plenty of people on the Northern scene today would say but it isnt "Northern" ,but it was popular enough back in the mid 70s to get booted .

Its not what to call it , its how it feels , Soulful is good enough for me

I doubt many people outside Cleethorpes and Blackpool knew the Lynn Varnado record, I remember it being booted and had no idea what it was, which is maybe why I didn't get it and still don't.

The big word here is SOULFUL but that is not the be all and end all when it comes to records, I like music to be exciting and rewarding, and I personally get nothing whatsoever from these crossover records. It's like, yes, great singer, but what a boring record.

I love soulful midtempo NORTHERN records, big city beat ballads. Not crossover.

[billb]

They still sound as bad to me now as they did then. It's just boring elevator music. If people love it, that's fine, I just don't like seeing it passed off as Northern Soul.

I remember when Goldmine issued their first Crossover Soul cd, the catchily entitled "Crossover Soul" and I bought it and listened to it and I remember thinking to myself, it comes to something when that f*cking awful Lynn Varnardo track is the best one on the cd. The rest, I forgot immediately and still can't remember any apart from Ruby Andrews.

might not be everyones cup of tea but for me, some great tunes on it, George Perkins - I'm so glad you're mine, Ultimates - Girl I've been trying to tell you, Ella Woods - I need your love, Dorthy Johnson - If it's not love don't waste my time (anyone know if she did anything else?) Celest Hardie - You're gone, Winstons - Color him father.

Music's music!

[Codfromderby]

Spot on really. Remember when you used to get soul packs in the 70's and threw away all the ones that weren't Northern? Well we did anyway. The stuff you chucked away was mostly crossover. Like when you got a great record, played the A side to death, tried the B side once and found it was forgettable and never went back to it. That's crossover as well. Of all of the different genres that comprise Northern Soul, crossover is the weakest because it was poor then and it hasn't improved over time, unlike say R & B which was obviously good back then but now sounds even better. You just have to get a record that's not northern but has the faintest trace of a beat, you call it crossover, it's so easy to do and it saves you finding any of the real stuff.

Naturally there are the odd exceptions, but on the whole, 99% of what I've heard is garbage. The Margie Joseph record that Mal mentions above is one of the greatest soul records ever made, it's an insult to describe it as crossover.

I feel so much better after a good rant.

remember we also used to chuck away northern tunes that were not played at the time as well as the "crossover" or 70,s tunes, i personally think todays soul scene and record collecting is totally different than it was years ago, as someone who is not very active on the going out soul scene for various reasons i tend to rely on my own ear these days when buying tunes on vinyl or other formats, crossover ?

i never knew- eddie foster where does that fit in, classic northern with a "crossover" feel, also think crossover is a remnant of the north south divide in music in the late 60,s early 70,s that has now mellowed, us northeners now are starting to get into the more soulfull funkier sounds that the dave godins and the like loved years ago when we were dancing to the burning bush, if you are a true northern bloke 99% will be garbage but i bet in your favourite tunes some "crossover" will appear.

mentioning soul packs, ive just heard for the first time for about 30 years, and bought "walk away lover" unlimited four on chanson, soul pack record, possibly crossover, remember chucking it, now days quality tune , in fact better than the mighty lover i reckon

[Simon M]

They still sound as bad to me now as they did then. It's just boring elevator music. If people love it, that's fine, I just don't like seeing it passed off as Northern Soul.

I remember when Goldmine issued their first Crossover Soul cd, the catchily entitled "Crossover Soul" and I bought it and listened to it and I remember thinking to myself, it comes to something when that f*cking awful Lynn Varnardo track is the best one on the cd. The rest, I forgot immediately and still can't remember any apart from Ruby Andrews.

Its strange but I sort of agree with you Pete . This might be the second time lol

[Guest Brett F]

It has been covered 3 times before on this forum, shouldn't moderators push the poster in that direction . Plenty of opinions that may give an idea behind the origin of the term and peoples own take on that particular genre of soul. All covered in those previous topics.

[Russ Vickers]

Well back in the day Soul Bowl record lists had a section entitled "Soulful Dance" which was full of "Crossover " records , If you just want to dance to a beat (either Northern or Modern and not much interesested in the Soulful content ,Crossover isnt for you. The clue is in SOULFUL , you will hear in rooms described as connoiseurs sessions at weekenders etc, at some ATB events etc at Venues that proudly proclaim to play SOUL MUSIC .................you wont here Crossover Soul at Scooter Rallies ,Oldies nights onThe Dale Winton or The Paul Ogrady Shows on Radio 2

Yes Pete it is good to rant:rolleyes:

I would just also like to add, that folk into Crossover or who have an appreciation of the genre, tend to have larger brains, therefore having a far greater appreciation of SOUL MUSIC than there NORTHERN SOUL only colleagues, they tend to be less judgemental musically speaking & more accepting of differing genres of black music...........some NORTHERN ONLY fans suffer a kind of paranoia where they beleive lovers of Crossover look down thier noses or feel superior to the smaller brained, paranoid delusional NS only fan........errrrrrrrrrrrr yeah, actually thier right on that one, as PS continually proves with his ridiculous statements:lol:

Crossover rules..................

Russ

[jocko]

Just because it's soulful doesn't mean it's any good though or you'd want to hear them though - most soul records are soulful!

Well actually it does, if you are a soul fan, and who actually says crossover has anything to do with Northern, and as thats the case why are you shoving your big (I imagine) beak in, again as your a Northern only bloke, allegedly! Get back to your podcasts please, although no more punk ones, the cats still in the attic quivering with disgust.

Lots of people into crossover have little or no interest in Northern now because its shit and driven by a dogmatic clueless concept of one style, which is generally the opinion of people that went for a few years in the 70's and have found the faith, somewhere under a pillow they lost in 1978. Actually lots of people into crossover have never had much interest in Northern at all, the rather Forest Gump like attitude that you can only like soul if you like Northern is the exact reason people spend hours debating all the Paul's (Weller and Anka) and Frankl F****n Popp (how aptly f***** named) than, lets say Just Soul(© Two Very Old Men from South Yorkshire and the Crocodile Dundee of Chesterfield) which for some strange reason us soul fans want to do.

The rather arrogant response that all roads soul are derived from Northern in the musical sense is frankly laughable, go and google the Urban Dictionary or look up the Guardian, they would have more idea than some people.

I am equally surprised at some of the derogotary comments from Mr H etc which appear to be aimed at posters on the Crossover thread, it may not be consistent in style but it sure is almost always completely consistent in soul, I would have thought that was a positive and would be supported rather than derided by some of the posters on here, other than Smithers obviously, and in a show of solidarity for my brotherhood (30 years almost to the day after the Polish branch were created, which will no doubt have the Freebasers Fascists burning some flags in memory) will post some non stereotypical tunes tonight!

[Pete S]

I would just also like to add, that folk into Crossover or who have an appreciation of the genre, tend to have larger brains, therefore having a far greater appreciation of SOUL MUSIC than there NORTHERN SOUL only colleagues, they tend to be less judgemental musically speaking & more accepting of differing genres of black music...........some NORTHERN ONLY fans suffer a kind of paranoia where they beleive lovers of Crossover look down thier noses or feel superior to the smaller brained, paranoid delusional NS only fan........errrrrrrrrrrrr yeah, actually thier right on that one, as PS continually proves with his ridiculous statements:lol:

Crossover rules..................

Russ

Change the record Russ, or just post up your previous posts on the subject seeing they're identical to this one.

[Pete S]

Well actually it does, if you are a soul fan, and who actually says crossover has anything to do with Northern, and as thats the case why are you shoving your big (I imagine) beak in, again as your a Northern only bloke, allegedly! Get back to your podcasts please, although no more punk ones, the cats still in the attic quivering with disgust.

Lots of people into crossover have little or no interest in Northern now because its shit and driven by a dogmatic clueless concept of one style, which is generally the opinion of people that went for a few years in the 70's and have found the faith, somewhere under a pillow they lost in 1978. Actually lots of people into crossover have never had much interest in Northern at all, the rather Forest Gump like attitude that you can only like soul if you like Northern is the exact reason people spend hours debating all the Paul's (Weller and Anka) and Frankl F****n Popp (how aptly f***** named) than, lets say Just Soul(© Two Very Old Men from South Yorkshire and the Crocodile Dundee of Chesterfield) which for some strange reason us soul fans want to do.

The rather arrogant response that all roads soul are derived from Northern in the musical sense is frankly laughable, go and google the Urban Dictionary or look up the Guardian, they would have more idea than some people.

I am equally surprised at some of the derogotary comments from Mr H etc which appear to be aimed at posters on the Crossover thread, it may not be consistent in style but it sure is almost always completely consistent in soul, I would have thought that was a positive and would be supported rather than derided by some of the posters on here, other than Smithers obviously, and in a show of solidarity for my brotherhood (30 years almost to the day after the Polish branch were created, which will no doubt have the Freebasers Fascists burning some flags in memory) will post some non stereotypical tunes tonight!

Did you wander onto this site by mistake or something?

[Guest]

But the Clyde McPhatter was played as far back as 75 and never thought of as anything else but pure Northern Soul.

But what is pure Northern Soul ?

"Give me one more chance" is a fantastic Soul record from 1970

If it had been discovered today I am sure it would be described as crossover by many collectors.

All I was getting at - was that hearing later recordings played on the northern scene in the 80s when I got into it

sort of got me more into enjoying the later stuff.

I would love own more Soulful 70s / Crossover tunes - Its an part of Soul music that I intend to start listening to more of.

But its no problem if you think the later stuff is shit, Its just about personal taste again.

[Pete S]

But its no problem if you think the later stuff is shit, Its just about personal taste again.

Exactly. So why do I get stick off the likes of Jock and Russ for expressing what my personal taste is - I can't help it if they can't get their heads around the fact that not everyone likes the same music as they do. I like punk, Jock eveidently hates it, I don't call him a goon for not being able to see the brilliance in aspects of punk.

[Sean Hampsey]

Guys, the term 'crossover' describes a period in 'time'. It's not a 'sound'. The Northern scene has always played (and accepted) records from that period.

As I said earlier, some are good, some are bad and the same can very much be said of records produced in

the mid 60's or mid 70's etc.

Sean

[Simsy]

Hi all

I have been listening to and collecting rare northern since I was 17 (I'm now 47)

Not a club-goer though since the early 80s, which might explain what follows to those of you who are . . .

It struck me that I don't really know what crossover is - I couln't define it properly or explain it to someone

In between northern and modern I thought - in between 60s and 70s I thought - stuff like Ruby Andrews - Just Loving You maybe? - not quite 60s or Modern - just in between - transitional - crossover

But the kind of stuff I have seen in recent months described as crossover just puzzles me - as a lot of it sounds either solid late 60s or definitely modern - so what is is crossover then?

Help me out guys - I'm stumped - isn't it just easier to say it's 60s, 70s, 80s etc?

Cheers

Richard

Defining crossover is like knitting fog!

General definition issupposed to be late 60's more funky type stuff, but not to be confused by non soul records that have crossed over and been played on the NS scene like The Ceasers & Tony Galla etc etc..

[jocko]

Exactly. So why do I get stick off the likes of Jock and Russ for expressing what my personal taste is - I can't help it if they can't get their heads around the fact that not everyone likes the same music as they do. I like punk, Jock eveidently hates it, I don't call him a goon for not being able to see the brilliance in aspects of punk.

EH no, you were calling our taste s**t so you got a verbal lobby back, and a reasonably witty and well informed one, even though I say so myself. Isnt that what forums are for, to quote a certain Mr Smith in the past! I'll pick your toys up for you........

And as always you were confusing NS with Soul, if you had stuck Northern or even all nighter music in your debate you would have at least had a valid point, and I would have agreed more, although again one that not everyone would agree al Soul Essence etc etc,

And don't knock these soul bowl soul packs, having gone through a box of them just earlier this year I have managed to move half a dozen into the fantastic crossover section on my shelves and sell another half a dozen of the less fantastic ones, for a total of around £400, not bad since they were about £25 for a hundred in those days!

And I did recognise the brilliance of punk, for around 6 months in 1977/78 ( I was a late developer) but I then grew up and discovered soul music, the only real music in the universe, which I would like to say is my humble opinion, but to misquote and extend a Mr Rounce saying, my opinion is not only never humble, its fact!

[jocko]

Change the record Russ, or just post up your previous posts on the subject seeing they're identical to this one.

I would like to think you are being all ironic with this statement and saying it in a loud Noddy Holder type accent like you must have, but I know you are not.

Pots, kettles and American sense of humour are my word associations with this!

[Pete S]

EH no, you were calling our taste s**t so you got a verbal lobby back, and a reasonably witty and well informed one, even though I say so myself. Isnt that what forums are for, to quote a certain Mr Smith in the past! I'll pick your toys up for you........

And as always you were confusing NS with Soul, if you had stuck Northern or even all nighter music in your debate you would have at least had a valid point, and I would have agreed more, although again one that not everyone would agree al Soul Essence etc etc,

And don't knock these soul bowl soul packs, having gone through a box of them just earlier this year I have managed to move half a dozen into the fantastic crossover section on my shelves and sell another half a dozen of the less fantastic ones, for a total of around £400, not bad since they were about £25 for a hundred in those days!

And I did recognise the brilliance of punk, for around 6 months in 1977/78 ( I was a late developer) but I then grew up and discovered soul music, the only real music in the universe, which I would like to say is my humble opinion, but to misquote and extend a Mr Rounce saying, my opinion is not only never humble, its fact!

The weird thing is though - I haven't done a punk podcast!

[Sean Hampsey]

I am equally surprised at some of the derogotary comments from Mr H etc which appear to be aimed at posters on the Crossover thread,

Who's Mr H Jock?

And what derogotary comments did he make?

Sean

[KevH]

Who's Mr H Jock?

And what derogotary comments did he make?

Sean

Ditto.

[Chalky]

Guys, the term 'crossover' describes a period in 'time'. It's not a 'sound'. The Northern scene has always played (and accepted) records from that period.

As I said earlier, some are good, some are bad and the same can very much be said of records produced in

the mid 60's or mid 70's etc.

Sean

You are right Sean it does describe a period in time but I think it also had it's own style, often mid tempo in style and records that were generally unacceptable to the northern scene or the modern scene, records rejected by both because more often than not the tempo as well as the style wasn't right.

Today the term is nothing like the term when it was first coined. Too many dealers simply use it to sell records they wouldn't normally be able to shift simply because crossover is "trendy" or "in".

Records like Ruby Andrews are simply Northern or just soul, they weren't crossover when the term first came into being.

Anyway prefer your term, Just Soul, good or bad!!!

[Mister Fish]

I like Soul music. 50% of ''Northern Soul'' is Pop so I only like half of it..

[Russ Vickers]

Change the record Russ, or just post up your previous posts on the subject seeing they're identical to this one.

I will if you will .

Pete, you are entitled to your opinion I was just responding, albeit tongue in cheek......when you express opinions in such a manner, you should expect similar in return, its not personal & was intended to be amusing.......as has been said, its all Soul Music innit, two types, good un bad & we all have our own preferences,

I really enjoy your podcasts & you contribute fantastically to this site when being positive, you are also bloody hilarious at times, but you do have very strong opinions on what you like & what you consider to be NS & some times invite similar in response.

I look forward to your Crossover Podcast with bated breath .

Russ

Edited September 2, 2010 by Russ Vickers