***rare Soul***

[Guest gordon russell]

only found out last wednesday that this music (well most of it ) was by black artists. Ya learn something new every day...........it,s not the music that we all have a problem with........it,s the oldies only crowd mind set thats what we can,t get our heads around............it,s a culture thing.........that said..........right on ! keep the faith.....soulies on tour! (aka divvies on tour ) soul brothers and sisters...........oh! forgot just say NO!!! to drugs.....and lastly always wash ya baggies and circle skirts in DAZ........peggy babcock

[Ezzie Brown]

a special limited edition gold braided velvet backed 12"square " PEGGY LOVES OLDIES..KTF WITH RUSS .50 YEARS ON " badge , is available for 10p a dozen, , first 10,000 get a free " ian levine is cute tee shirt ." ......................of course its about the music really .................i know............... im havin a funny 5 , bear with me, i get lonely sometimes:D ezzie,[ peggies auntie ]

Edited July 24, 2010 by ezzie brown

[Dean]

Why have some over the past few years started to use the term 'Rare Soul' in a derogatory fashion to describe records or events they dislike ?.

I was always under the impression that prior to the phrase Northern Soul being coined the scene had been referred to as a Rare Soul Scene. Certainly the description has been used alongside Northern Soul to describe our scene/music since I've been attending events, along side that of Northern Soul & continues to be used to this day.

Right back to the very beginning the vast majority of records played on the scene have been Rare to one degree or another, ie hard to find. Many of the 'Top 500' are eye wateringly expensive & comparitively speaking always have been. What puzzles me, is why the term now seems to have been hijacked & used in a derisory fashion.

For the record, my take on Rare, is also the 'RARE QUALITY' within many of the sounds that are played, as well as availability or price.

I also find the term Rare Soul an easier way to describe to non soul people the kinda music I like.

Several similar arguments / discussions condense into threads on here, and I'm not saying that's a bad thing. There seems to be some unresolved issues around the "scene" (understanding Paul D point I hope about is it records or the rare scene?) that erupt regularly.

I'm at odds with "rare" being used as a derogatory term when associated with scene or records. My abiding opinion of "northern" was to celebrate its rarity. I'd prefer for rare records to be played only by those who have them (rather than pretend to). That encourages the point of having to travel to hear them to celebrate their rarity of number and quality (in that the sound is worth travelling to hear also). A lot of records are special in so much as they are very scarce, if they're also very good then brilliant, that's what we want. Hearing it becomes a privilege to be sought out.

As for rare scene, I'll embrace any group of people who appreciate the history and enjoyment of music to move your feet and your soul. I'm sure there will be those I'll be happy to disagree with within that scene, but aint that life.

For me it's the term "Northern" that conjours up images of media misrepresentation and retro fancy dress, although agree with Matt about wishing to re-claim it.

Is one opposite of rare common?

[Ezzie Brown]

Several similar arguments / discussions condense into threads on here, and I'm not saying that's a bad thing. There seems to be some unresolved issues around the "scene" (understanding Paul D point I hope about is it records or the rare scene?) that erupt regularly.

I'm at odds with "rare" being used as a derogatory term when associated with scene or records. My abiding opinion of "northern" was to celebrate its rarity. I'd prefer for rare records to be played only by those who have them (rather than pretend to). That encourages the point of having to travel to hear them to celebrate their rarity of number and quality (in that the sound is worth travelling to hear also). A lot of records are special in so much as they are very scarce, if they're also very good then brilliant, that's what we want. Hearing it becomes a privilege to be sought out.

As for rare scene, I'll embrace any group of people who appreciate the history and enjoyment of music to move your feet and your soul. I'm sure there will be those I'll be happy to disagree with within that scene, but aint that life.

For me it's the term "Northern" that conjours up images of media misrepresentation and retro fancy dress, although agree with Matt about wishing to re-claim it.

Is one opposite of rare common?

i might be mad but i recognise a good post when i read it, spot on dean, ez

[Pete Eccles]

.....soulies on tour! (aka divvies on tour )

That will win loadsa new recruits to the 'rare soul scene' I reckon, who mentioned derogatary?

[Kevinkent]

It makes a lot of sense to me & a great insight into early references to NS. Still brings me back to why some people use the term Rare Soul in a derogetary way tho' ?.

Russ

:lol: Yeah, I wonder why that is?

Let's all get back in our pigeon holes where we're comfortable, and call one another names - it's easier.

[Mark S]

The people that use the term rare soul in a derogatory way are probably having a pop at what they see as soul snobs ,

The people that use the term top 500 in a derogatory way are probably having a pop at what they see as soul commoners .

As long as the music fits the bill for danceability who gives a shit what its called , I am in my mid 50s and have more dancing behind me than in front of me , new releases, classic oldies , modern ,rare top 500 bring it on .

[Guest gordon russell]

That will win loadsa new recruits to the 'rare soul scene' I reckon, who mentioned derogatary?

lol...........anyone who puts up a banner saying soulies on tour deserves a mention:lol:

[Guest Phoenix8049]

The people that use the term rare soul in a derogatory way are probably having a pop at what they see as soul snobs ,

The people that use the term top 500 in a derogatory way are probably having a pop at what they see as soul commoners .

As long as the music fits the bill for danceability who gives a shit what its called , I am in my mid 50s and have more dancing behind me than in front of me , new releases, classic oldies , modern ,rare top 500 bring it on .

Yes it seems like not only the scene is split in 2,but like 2 sets of football supporters one loves to have a pop at the other,when the opportunity arrives.

This is still on topic and i think very rellevent what i am about to say.

Been into the music since the 6ts, had a break from the scene during some of the millenium years,and came back onto the Scene in the last 9 or 10 months.

Since then i have been to oldies venues,newies venues for want of a better word,weekenders and all nighters.

It seems like a lot of the people i have spoken to have very different outlooks about the other side of there scene.

As Mark S has stated the oldies crowd find it Derogatory calling them just that.

They think that they are a bunch of 40 or 50 somethings trying to recapture there youth.

With the majority of people i have spoken to that is not the case.

For many of the so called oldies crowd,would like to hear the odd new rare or underplayed oldie from time to time.

And the oppossite has been mentioned with the rare soul crowd i have spoken to,that they would like to hear the odd classic oldie just not the rare and underplayed.

Many venues seem to have a Black And White approach.

Oldies or nothing or rare and underplayed or nothing.

Maybe DJs should start blending the two a little more.

There was one particular niter i went to very recently and it did blend the two a little and it seemed to work.

There also seems to be too many unwritten rules on the scene that a lot of people have complained to me about.

For a start the way people dress,especially to oldies nights.

The ladies i have spoken to said they dress like that mostly cause it is more comfortable to dance,and a vast majority either wear leotards or other sports attire underneath the twirl skirts,so contary to what a few people seem to think,they are not being embarrasing showing there nickers when they spin.

Some of the guys with the baggies tell me its a lot cooler on there legs than wearing jeans.

Obviously this is not every case.

The next statement might get me crucified on soul sauce,but i do think it really needs to be mentioned.

I know even a lot of the oldies people shun bootlegs and CDs being played BUT. what about all the records that are so rare and hard to get hold of on Vinyl that they never get played these days and seemed to have just faded into obscurity.

Surely you would think that these could be played at least on a bootleg.

There are so many underplayed records that could be re vived on the scene,without playing anymore newies for the next few years.

Yes i do admit,there are a few people who are very narrow minded and only want the top 500 oldies in fact more like the top 200,but they are in a minority,and judging what i have observed, these people never even went to nighters until the mid 80s and dont even know some of the classic oldies.

There are a few of the oldies crowd who have never been to a rare soul night,and have just come to the conclusion that its all mid tempo or doo wop music which is very sad really.

For me personally i would love to go to an allnighter and have DJs alternate maybe 1 hour rare and underplayed and 1 hour classic oldies.

They used to do that a lot at places like Parr Hall Warrington and a few other venues back then and it worked a treat.

It might also bring the 2 sides of the Scene closer together.

It would really be nice to unite the scene like it used to be,and i hope any promoters or DJs reading this,take on board some of the points i have mentioned from a punters point of view.

Stu.

[Russ Vickers]

Yes it seems like not only the scene is split in 2,but like 2 sets of football supporters one loves to have a pop at the other,when the opportunity arrives.

This is still on topic and i think very rellevent what i am about to say.

Been into the music since the 6ts, had a break from the scene during some of the millenium years,and came back onto the Scene in the last 9 or 10 months.

Since then i have been to oldies venues,newies venues for want of a better word,weekenders and all nighters.

It seems like a lot of the people i have spoken to have very different outlooks about the other side of there scene.

As Mark S has stated the oldies crowd find it Derogatory calling them just that.

They think that they are a bunch of 40 or 50 somethings trying to recapture there youth.

With the majority of people i have spoken to that is not the case.

For many of the so called oldies crowd,would like to hear the odd new rare or underplayed oldie from time to time.

And the oppossite has been mentioned with the rare soul crowd i have spoken to,that they would like to hear the odd classic oldie just not the rare and underplayed.

Many venues seem to have a Black And White approach.

Oldies or nothing or rare and underplayed or nothing.

Maybe DJs should start blending the two a little more.

There was one particular niter i went to very recently and it did blend the two a little and it seemed to work.

There also seems to be too many unwritten rules on the scene that a lot of people have complained to me about.

For a start the way people dress,especially to oldies nights.

The ladies i have spoken to said they dress like that mostly cause it is more comfortable to dance,and a vast majority either wear leotards or other sports attire underneath the twirl skirts,so contary to what a few people seem to think,they are not being embarrasing showing there nickers when they spin.

Some of the guys with the baggies tell me its a lot cooler on there legs than wearing jeans.

Obviously this is not every case.

The next statement might get me crucified on soul sauce,but i do think it really needs to be mentioned.

I know even a lot of the oldies people shun bootlegs and CDs being played BUT. what about all the records that are so rare and hard to get hold of on Vinyl that they never get played these days and seemed to have just faded into obscurity.

Surely you would think that these could be played at least on a bootleg.

There are so many underplayed records that could be re vived on the scene,without playing anymore newies for the next few years.

Yes i do admit,there are a few people who are very narrow minded and only want the top 500 oldies in fact more like the top 200,but they are in a minority,and judging what i have observed, these people never even went to nighters until the mid 80s and dont even know some of the classic oldies.

There are a few of the oldies crowd who have never been to a rare soul night,and have just come to the conclusion that its all mid tempo or doo wop music which is very sad really.

For me personally i would love to go to an allnighter and have DJs alternate maybe 1 hour rare and underplayed and 1 hour classic oldies.

They used to do that a lot at places like Parr Hall Warrington and a few other venues back then and it worked a treat.

It might also bring the 2 sides of the Scene closer together.

It would really be nice to unite the scene like it used to be,and i hope any promoters or DJs reading this,take on board some of the points i have mentioned from a punters point of view.

Stu.

Great post Stu & some really good relevant points bought up..........to pick up on one particular observation, personally I would love to see more 'forgotten' oldies played too, but there's no reason why they shoudnt be played form the original vinyl IMO. Reactivations of 'forgotten' records are an integral part of the scene, & have/will become more important as the 'unknowns' continue to dry up, but its important that DJ's use imagination - nothing like being on the dance floor & hearing a gem from 20 or so years ago, that you had truly forgotten & the hairs go up & woooooooooooooooooooooooooosssssssssssssshhhhhhhhhhhhhhh.......................off ya go again !!!................................that is the essence of a true oldie to me, but DJ's need to work hard to not only remember em in the first place, but as I have already mentioned, to use some imagination, some DJ's do this very well others are a little lazy.

I've said it before & I'll say it again, I want one big nighter, playing the whole lot on one dancefloor, oldies, newies, crossover, modern, relevant new releasers & quality R n B, with some nice Soulful Deep Funkers thrown in for good measue, if it has the X factor that makes it work on the floor & in the hearts of the soul crowd then play it or at least try it...............these shouldnt be played as one set of each, but mixed up by competent DJ's to an open minded crowd who will go & have a fag if something is played not to thier personal taste & dont write the whole night off................thats how it used to be innit ?.............thats how I want my Rare Soul served now................

Best Russ

[Julie Moore]

Hi guys,

I used to be terrified by the term "RARE SOUL" till one day i went into a "RARE SOUL" room billed at an event i was at to my astonishment it was just records that I had known but not heard played out for years

Don`t really know what all the fuss is about

Regards

Julie x

[Billywhizz]

Hi guys,

I used to be terrified by the term "RARE SOUL" till one day i went into a "RARE SOUL" room billed at an event i was at to my astonishment it was just records that I had known but not heard played out for years

Don`t really know what all the fuss is about

Regards

Julie x

my words exactly lol:lol:

[Mark B]

The reason i like upfront or rare soul nights is i like to hear something different, i think if i went to oldies only nights it would start to become like groundhog day, i love oldies and maybe this is why when i do go to a night that plays a few well known oldies they still seem fresh to me as i only hear them now and again or on a cd that i am playing in my van. works for me but it is only my opinion.

mark

[Guest aintgotit]

When I 1st got took to the Mecca, the older lads said to me you want to come. "They play AMERICAN IMPORTS!"

At the time local clubs playing Stateside, Tamla, Atlantic, Stax etc.

So I went and didn't know any of the records, but 39 years later I'm still here.

If someone had said that to me dave id have thought hmm i dont know this, or this, the stes must be a great place to go to hear stuff like this.cant be RARE can it?

[Russ Vickers]

The reason i like upfront or rare soul nights is i like to hear something different, i think if i went to oldies only nights it would start to become like groundhog day, i love oldies and maybe this is why when i do go to a night that plays a few well known oldies they still seem fresh to me as i only hear them now and again or on a cd that i am playing in my van. works for me but it is only my opinion.

mark

Hi Mark, exactly that............BTW your last played - Jades - The Siestas Over - cracking tune IMO & I have been raving over this for last couple of years, managed to get Disco Dave one a while back, not expensive, but a relatively difficult record to find with this on..........mmmmmmmmmmm would this be Rare Soul .

Russ

[Mark S]

Davetay mentioned American imports that takes me back . there are so many names for our music nowadays , the one term I have the biggest problem with is Top 500 . I am quite sure when Kev Roberts compiled this list he did it with the best of intentions but it seems to me that it has become the benchmark by which naffness is measured .

[Mark B]

Hi Mark, exactly that............BTW your last played - Jades - The Siestas Over - cracking tune IMO & I have been raving over this for last couple of years, managed to get Disco Dave one a while back, not expensive, but a relatively difficult record to find with this on..........mmmmmmmmmmm would this be Rare Soul .

Russ

might be one for a rarish soul night

can you get me one?

mark

[Russ Vickers]

might be one for a rarish soul night

can you get me one?

mark

Thers one in sales now mate funnily enough.

Russ

[Mark B]

Thers one in sales now mate funnily enough.

Russ

yes i know i know franc is selling it but i think someone may have beaten me to it.

mark