***rare Soul***

[Russ Vickers]

Why have some over the past few years started to use the term 'Rare Soul' in a derogatory fashion to describe records or events they dislike ?.

I was always under the impression that prior to the phrase Northern Soul being coined the scene had been referred to as a Rare Soul Scene. Certainly the description has been used alongside Northern Soul to describe our scene/music since I've been attending events, along side that of Northern Soul & continues to be used to this day.

Right back to the very beginning the vast majority of records played on the scene have been Rare to one degree or another, ie hard to find. Many of the 'Top 500' are eye wateringly expensive & comparitively speaking always have been. What puzzles me, is why the term now seems to have been hijacked & used in a derisory fashion.

For the record, my take on Rare, is also the 'RARE QUALITY' within many of the sounds that are played, as well as availability or price.

I also find the term Rare Soul an easier way to describe to non soul people the kinda music I like.

Edited July 24, 2010 by Russ Vickers

[Godzilla]

Why have some over the past few years started to use the term 'Rare Soul' in a derogatory fashion to describe records or events they dislike ?.

I was always under the impression that prior to the phrase Northern Soul being coined the scene had been referred to as a Rare Soul Scene. Certainly the description has been used alongside Northern Soul to describe our scene/music since I've been attending events, along side that of Northern Soul & continues to be used to this day.

Right back to the very beginning the vast majority of records played on the scene have been Rare to one degree or another, ie hard to find. Many of the 'Top 500' are eye wateringly expensive & comparitively speaking always have been. What puzzles me, is why the term now seems to have been hijacked & used in a derisory fashion.

For the record, my take on Rare, is also the 'RARE QUALITY' within many of the sounds that are played, as well as availability or price.

I also find the term Rare Soul an easier way to describe to non soul people the kinda music I like.

Yeah - I don't like all that rare stuff. I just like proper Northern like The Del Larks, Eddie Parker, Frank Wilson, Don Gardner.

Rare Soul - Pah!

[Paul Shirley]

good post . i quite agree with you its bloody annoying . i thought about doing a list of well known big records that are also rare ,for the buggers that use the term rare in the fashion that you mention ,( am not coming to your club you play that rare shit ) i was going to start off with the del larks and eddie parker but i see godzilla has beaten me to it.

Edited July 24, 2010 by steptoe

[Guest veep1296]

Why have some over the past few years started to use the term 'Rare Soul' in a derogatory fashion to describe records or events they dislike ?.

I was always under the impression that prior to the phrase Northern Soul being coined the scene had been referred to as a Rare Soul Scene. Certainly the description has been used alongside Northern Soul to describe our scene/music since I've been attending events, along side that of Northern Soul & continues to be used to this day.

Right back to the very beginning the vast majority of records played on the scene have been Rare to one degree or another, ie hard to find. Many of the 'Top 500' are eye wateringly expensive & comparitively speaking always have been. What puzzles me, is why the term now seems to have been hijacked & used in a derisory fashion.

For the record, my take on Rare, is also the 'RARE QUALITY' within many of the sounds that are played, as well as availability or price.

I also find the term Rare Soul an easier way to describe to non soul people the kinda music I like.

"Rare Soul in The Highland Room" is how it was & always will be for me........I never (& still don't) liked with the "Northern" tag as lots of the sounds played at Blackpool came from the lads down South, Messrs Rivers, Burton etc....& there were vibrant scenes in London (Birds Nest etc) & other locations down there playing the same type of music..

As a Northerner living down South from 1975..the things assosciated with the tag "Northern Soul" embarassed me greatly. TOTP, Footsee etc)

Hope you are well Russ.

DF & JF xx

[Guest]

RARE SOUL = Slow/Mid Tempo late 50s RnB. This is what a large percentage of the mainstream oldies crowd honestly believe rare soul means, a massive misconception which stops a lot of people from attending nights advertised as 'Rare Soul'.

My definition of rare soul is rarely played which can be because it's mind blowingly rare or an overlooked £5er or a forgotten oldie, new discovery etc etc.

[Baz Atkinson]

Particulary in the eighties the prhase was coined-it was fun then because we were all into rare soul and finding them-now peoplke seem to think its kudos to own a Joe Jama lol[shit record imho]i more to do with bragging rights than quality -plus sites like this give people refo-soul which has thoushands of quality records for less than a fiver "so the turnaround has more to do with the information age etc". iM STILL AMAZED at some of the prices on ebay for records that i wouldnt give house space to but hey ho -each to their own-if some numbty is bragging at a local soul do thar he/she has a rare soul record then my view is their have missed the boat completly -im pleased people are tunring their nose up to rare soul and its connatations cos lets face it RARE HAS NOWT TO DO WITH QUALITY -perhaps it means that THE NEW RARE IS THE NEW ACCESIBLE -PHEW BOUT TIME -RIGHT IM OFF TO PLAY MY SHIT RARE THELMA DEMOS ""HAVE A GOOD DAY FOLKS"LOL.

BAZ A

[Guest Bearsy]

Rare = slow and dreary expensive records no one wants and defo dont want to hear and definately not upbeat exciting raw cheap or not cheap dance records and mainly cos its easy to pigeon hole it cos its not in the top 500

when people ask me what music im obsessed with i tell them, mainly rare 60s early 70s Black Soul music = rare soul overplayed or not

[Russ Vickers]

"Rare Soul in The Highland Room" is how it was & always will be for me........I never (& still don't) liked with the "Northern" tag as lots of the sounds played at Blackpool came from the lads down South, Messrs Rivers, Burton etc....& there were vibrant scenes in London (Birds Nest etc) & other locations down there playing the same type of music..

As a Northerner living down South from 1975..the things assosciated with the tag "Northern Soul" embarassed me greatly. TOTP, Footsee etc)

Hope you are well Russ.

DF & JF xx

Hi Dave

Hope you are well my friend, my take on this is quite similar to yours, as whilst I'm from the Midlands, I have lived darn south since the late 7ts, where I was exposed to a great many scenes that played quality soul records, the Rare Groove Scene of the early 8ts was particularly prevailent in my neck of the woods, I would attend all manner of 'soul' do's in the week, including Jazz Funk events etc, but my weekends were spent Up North........hence my diverse & eclectic taste in Rare Soul. Just occured to me also, that the sets I hear you play are right up my strasse !!!...........which kinda confirms my theory .

Russ

[ImberBoy]

I think that when ever a term or a phrase starts to be used as a derogatory reference it usually has a root of origin from those who either do not understand or those who feel left out of a perceived inner circle when they desperately desire to be within that circle.

I kinda suspect that what we have is a number of chaps returning back to a scene that has moved on leaving many behind scratching their heads and possible feeling quite left out and even a bit dated when some cling to a couple of years at Wigan Casino or the like.

[Chalky]

I think the term is often used out of ignorance. Often used for something that doesn't appeal to someone or to someone who considers some elitist cause they listen to something that hasn't been hammered to death for 35 years.

At the end of the day, oldies or newies, Northern or rarities, underplayed & forgotten, crossover, whatever tag you want to give it, its all the same, Rare Soul Music!

[Tabs]

Rare and Northern are interchangeable within this scene imo.

But rare was definitely the term before northern was coined.

Like a lot of others I find the tag Northern Soul embarrassing.

It was always rare soul that people travelled for.

Listening to new sounds that couldn't be heard elsewhere.

Shame that original ethos doesn't seem to apply any longer for a lot of people.

Each to their own I suppose.

It's all rare soul music.

[Mace]

How people become so negative to hearing stuff they have never heard before is beyond me.

Everybody got into this scene knowing nowt about obscure soul records and embraced the music that was new to them.

How does that passion change?

Why would anyone suddenly want to switch off and only listen to what they already know seems the exact opposite nature of what attracted them to this scene in the first place.

I can understand folk not liking certain genres, and I can appreciate that a full set of unknowns can be overbearing, but most of those that use the term Rare Soul in a derogatory manner don't seem to want to accept anything other the the tried and tested.

All that aside, it is getting tiresome of reading constant snipes and moans about Rare Soul Events from these people.

Perhaps they should concentrate on being positive about the stuff they do enjoy, rather than so negative about the stuff they don't.

Then we can all play nicely

[Russ Vickers]

I think the term is often used out of ignorance. Often used for something that doesn't appeal to someone or to someone who considers some elitist cause they listen to something that hasn't been hammered to death for 35 years.

At the end of the day, oldies or newies, Northern or rarities, underplayed & forgotten, crossover, whatever tag you want to give it, its all the same, Rare Soul Music!

Absolutly with bells on.............its what we're all into........

Russ

[viphitman]

Particulary in the eighties the prhase was coined-it was fun then because we were all into rare soul and finding them-now peoplke seem to think its kudos to own a Joe Jama lol[shit record imho]i more to do with bragging rights than quality -plus sites like this give people refo-soul which has thoushands of quality records for less than a fiver "so the turnaround has more to do with the information age etc". iM STILL AMAZED at some of the prices on ebay for records that i wouldnt give house space to but hey ho -each to their own-if some numbty is bragging at a local soul do thar he/she has a rare soul record then my view is their have missed the boat completly -im pleased people are tunring their nose up to rare soul and its connatations cos lets face it RARE HAS NOWT TO DO WITH QUALITY -perhaps it means that THE NEW RARE IS THE NEW ACCESIBLE -PHEW BOUT TIME -RIGHT IM OFF TO PLAY MY SHIT RARE THELMA DEMOS ""HAVE A GOOD DAY FOLKS"LOL.

BAZ A

But how many times did you comment quite positively on RARE records.... :D .....Do ya have a spare Joe Jama??? Oh my favourite tracks at the moment are the mega expensive and ultra rare ...The Carltons - Ooo Baby- Argo and that Salt & Pepper cheapo!!!

RARE IS WHAT YOU CAN'T GET AT TESCO!!!!!!!

Edited July 24, 2010 by viphitman

[Russ Vickers]

Is Northern Soul an outdated term ?, whilst the phrase Rare Soul Scene probably pre dates the label NS anyway should Allnighters/Soul Nights that have a music policy that reflects the original concept of the scene championing the new & underplayed revert back to promoting there venues as Rare Soul, therefore diffentiating themselves fom other events that are purely nostalgia based (not that there is anything wrong with that if its what you want BTW) ?.

Would definitly draw a line between the scenes...........especially as the music played is soooooooooooooo diverse, Rare Soul is a far better representation of what is actually played at these events dont you think................

Russ

[Guest Byrney]

Is Northern Soul an outdated term ?, whilst the phrase Rare Soul Scene probably pre dates the label NS anyway should Allnighters/Soul Nights that have a music policy that reflects the original concept of the scene championing the new & underplayed revert back to promoting there venues as Rare Soul, therefore diffentiating themselves fom other events that are purely nostalgia based (not that there is anything wrong with that if its what you want BTW) ?.

Would definitly draw a line between the scenes...........especially as the music played is soooooooooooooo diverse, Rare Soul is a far better representation of what is actually played at these events dont you think................

Russ

A few years ago I would have argued tooth and claw that the rare soul scene should be termed Northern Soul, TOTW, Shotts, 100 Club, Oddfellows, Soultown Blackburn / Mexborough etc through to Lifeline were all NS nighters in my view.

Its the rare soul side that has stuck to the ethos of NS IMO: new, some underplayed next to a few selected classics. However the NS tag has come to represent the nostalgia scene i.e based around looking back to the past and listening to a relatively small number of up tempo classics. Damn shame but for what were into the NS term doesn't fit anymore.

Edited July 24, 2010 by Byrney

[Kevinkent]

Is Northern Soul an outdated term ?, whilst the phrase Rare Soul Scene probably pre dates the label NS anyway should Allnighters/Soul Nights that have a music policy that reflects the original concept of the scene championing the new & underplayed revert back to promoting there venues as Rare Soul, therefore diffentiating themselves fom other events that are purely nostalgia based (not that there is anything wrong with that if its what you want BTW) ?.

Would definitly draw a line between the scenes...........especially as the music played is soooooooooooooo diverse, Rare Soul is a far better representation of what is actually played at these events dont you think................

Russ

Russ, I don't recall the term Rare Soul being used prior to the coining of the phrase "Northern Soul". Maybe it depends where you were geographically though.

In the late '60s when I began to frequent venues in the Northants area that played rarer and more unusual stuff I'm sure it was just refered to as "Soul", or maybe "Old Soul".

My cousin had frequented the same venues a couple of years previously. When she found out I was going regularly she said " Oh, you like R'n'B then?".

So, within a few years it had gone from R'n'B to (old) Soul to Northern Soul. Same music, different label.

The trouble with pigeon holing is the preconception and misconception that goes with it, and I won't go into the derogatory comments that come flying from people who, mistakenly believe that they are in a different arena. I don't believe that they are. It's one big soul music scene, with variations, and if some stopped being so insular and defensive of what they percieve to be their speciality, they might find that the other pigeon holes aren't really so different.

I hope this makes sense - I know what I mean.

Edited July 24, 2010 by KevinKent

[viphitman]

Is Northern Soul an outdated term ?, whilst the phrase Rare Soul Scene probably pre dates the label NS anyway should Allnighters/Soul Nights that have a music policy that reflects the original concept of the scene championing the new & underplayed revert back to promoting there venues as Rare Soul, therefore diffentiating themselves fom other events that are purely nostalgia based (not that there is anything wrong with that if its what you want BTW) ?.

Would definitly draw a line between the scenes...........especially as the music played is soooooooooooooo diverse, Rare Soul is a far better representation of what is actually played at these events dont you think................

Russ

No it's not!!! For someone who comes into either event for the first time it sounds pretty much the same!!!!! Shall we call Rare Soul Events in England Old Peoples Rare Soul Disco in order to differentiate between rare soul events in Europe???? (NO OFFENSE PLEASE!!!)

Add a little line on the flyer/ event info/ webside and people know what to expect !!!

Edited July 24, 2010 by viphitman

[Russ Vickers]

A few years ago I would have argued tooth and claw that the rare soul scene should be termed Northern Soul, TOTW, Shotts, 100 Club, Oddfellows, Soultown Blackburn / Mexborough etc through to Lifeline were all NS nighters in my view.

Its the rare soul side that has stuck to the ethos of NS IMO: new, some underplayed next to a few selected classics. However the NS tag has come to represent the nostalgia scene i.e based around looking back to the past and listening to a relatively small number of up tempo classics. Damn shame but for what were into the NS term doesn't fit anymore.

I agree entirely..........all venues that I attended myself, albeit some more regularly than others, I was once very proud to be asscotiated with the NS scene, still am to some extent, but feel there should be a distinct difference between a scene that is still striving to give air play to the underplayed & unknown & venues that play oldies exclusively, also believe that there is a place for Oldies & love most of them to death, every now & again I wanna go & dance all night & wallow in nostalgia, but even though I'm fat & 50 (nearly) cant shake that excitment of hearing new tunes & dancin' to em................ there is a place for everything, but I feel I fit better into a Rare Soul Scene & all it embraces, with the traditional sounding newies, as well as all the other genres of on the whole black dance music that can be fitted in if it has the X factor, amongst all of this I still wanna hear a few classics in the mix too, but not all night thank you.........back to the future.........'Right on Soul Brothers n Sistas'

Russ

[Russ Vickers]

No it's not!!! For someone who comes into either event for the first time it sounds pretty much the same!!!!! Shall we call Rare Soul Events in England Old Peoples Rare Soul Disco in order to differentiate between rare soul events in Europe???? (NO OFFENSE PLEASE!!!)

Add a little line on the flyer/ event info/ webside and people know what to expect !!!

Good & valid point point..........

Russ

[Guest Matt Male]

The rare soul scene is the northern soul scene. It's what's left of the early 80s post Wigan scene and everything that was about. The current nostalgia scene has nothing to do with the northern soul scene in my opinion. I'm sick to death of idiots slagging off the so-called 'rare soul' scene and making out they are into 'proppa norven soul' just because they dance to the top 500 and nothing else every weekend. These people are pissing on what i love.

I'm into northern soul, always have been, always will be, not some pathetic throw-back nostalgia Paul O'Gady version of what this great scene should be.

I'm adding 'northern' to billing for Move On from now on. We've been scared away from saying we're into northern soul because we don't want to associated with the nostalgia crowd. Time to claim it back.

Edited July 24, 2010 by Matt Male

[Russ Vickers]

Russ, I don't recall the term Rare Soul being used prior to the coining of the phrase "Northern Soul". Maybe it depends where you were geographically though.

In the late '60s when I began to frequent venues in the Northants area that played rarer and more unusual stuff I'm sure it was just refered to as "Soul", or maybe "Old Soul".

My cousin had frequented the same venues a couple of years previously. When she found out I was going regularly she said " Oh, you like R'n'B then?".

So, within a few years it had gone from R'n'B to (old) Soul to Northern Soul. Same music, different label.

The trouble with pigeon holing is the preconception and misconception that goes with it, and I won't go into the derogatory comments that come flying from people who, mistakenly believe that they are in a different arena. I don't believe that they are. It's one big soul music scene, with variations, and if some stopped being so insular and defensive of what they percieve to be their speciality, they might find that the other pigeon holes aren't really so different.

I hope this makes sense - I know what I mean.

It makes a lot of sense to me & a great insight into early references to NS. Still brings me back to why some people use the term Rare Soul in a derogetary way tho' ?.

Russ

[KevH]

I think the term is often used out of ignorance. Often used for something that doesn't appeal to someone or to someone who considers some elitist cause they listen to something that hasn't been hammered to death for 35 years.

At the end of the day, oldies or newies, Northern or rarities, underplayed & forgotten, crossover, whatever tag you want to give it, its all the same, Rare Soul Music!

Spot on Chalky.Most folks are now in their 50's and are set in their ways.Don't like being told or asked to "listen to this,its as good as anything back in the day".

The rare scene embraces records far quicker, that are relatively underplayed or unknowns.Collector/dj driven.

The people who hate the "rare" scene are the ones who need to have a look on the dancefloor first, before coming to a conclusion wether a record passes the test.That scene is dancefloor driven to the extent that a half empty floor represents a disaster.Hence top 500 becoming the norm.Back to promoters?

[ImberBoy]

How people become so negative to hearing stuff they have never heard before is beyond me.

Everybody got into this scene knowing nowt about obscure soul records and embraced the music that was new to them.

How does that passion change?

Why would anyone suddenly want to switch off and only listen to what they already know seems the exact opposite nature of what attracted them to this scene in the first place.

I can understand folk not liking certain genres, and I can appreciate that a full set of unknowns can be overbearing, but most of those that use the term Rare Soul in a derogatory manner don't seem to want to accept anything other the the tried and tested.

All that aside, it is getting tiresome of reading constant snipes and moans about Rare Soul Events from these people.

Perhaps they should concentrate on being positive about the stuff they do enjoy, rather than so negative about the stuff they don't.

Then we can all play nicely

Mace I am not convinced that most got into "the scene' due to their eagerness to begin a voyage of discovery for black American music, rare soul.

I am convinced that the meat and potatoes of the scene back in the day where people on a journey of cool and anti fashion that became fashion.

What convinces me is the born again's who are now the "Wigan Casino Reenactment Society" who are far too quick to profess their love of Northernsoul yet entrench themselves in the time warp of nostalgic ignorance.

Most have nothing more than pilfered memories, copy and pasted experiences and CD cover knowledge.

Unfortunately they now represent the high numbers but they do not represent me nor do they represent you or those who celebrate the joy of expanding their musical experience.

I personally believe that those who insist on looking backwards should be burnt at the stake for they are truly evil and bring great shame on our great house.

[Russ Vickers]

The rare soul scene is the northern soul scene. It's what's left of the early 80s post Wigan scene and everything that was about. The current nostalgia scene has nothing to do with the northern soul scene in my opinion. I'm sick to death of idiots slagging off the so-called 'rare soul' scene and making out they are into 'proppa norven soul' just because they dance to the top 500 and nothing else every weekend. These people are pissing on what i love.

I'm into northern soul, always have been, always will be, not some pathetic throw-back nostalgia Paul O'Gady version of what this great scene should be.

I'm adding 'northern' to billing for Move On from now on. We've been scared away from saying we're into northern soul because we don't want to associated with the nostalgia crowd. Time to claim it back.

Nice that this thread has generated a positive response as to the billing of your night - more power to ya - Northern Soul is dead -

Long Live Northern Soul......................

Russ

[Russ Vickers]

Mace I am not convinced that most got into "the scene' due to their eagerness to begin a voyage of discovery for black American music, rare soul.

I am convinced that the meat and potatoes of the scene back in the day where people on a journey of cool and anti fashion that became fashion.

What convinces me is the born again's who are now the "Wigan Casino Reenactment Society" who are far too quick to profess their love of Northernsoul yet entrench themselves in the time warp of nostalgic ignorance.

Most have nothing more than pilfered memories, copy and pasted experiences and CD cover knowledge.

Unfortunately they now represent the high numbers but they do not represent me nor do they represent you or those who celebrate the joy of expanding their musical experience.

I personally believe that those who insist on looking backwards should be burnt at the stake for they are truly evil and bring great shame on our great house.

BURN THEM, BURN THEM, BURN THEM.................................................()

Russ

[nrc]

I thought that the term Rare Soul meant that not so much that the record was rare, but that it was a record that wasn't played anywhere else in the mainstram of places. I'm most likely wrong again as i usually am.

[KevH]

And whilst we're here.How come the "other" nights don't put up any playlists??.

Is it 1/..they are ashamed of playing and dancing to the same stuff week in week out?

2/ not worth doing because the actual record is secondary to dancing.

3/ playing boots,and as much as they don't like the "new" scene and that its built on ovo,don't like admitting they are selling themselves and the punters short?

These are the folks who apparently went to Wigan,,,,to listen to new and rare stuff week in week out.What happened...???

Not putting up playlists only reinforces the myth that the tunes are top 500..!!!!!!!!

Please someone,anyone...?

[Davetay]

Nice that this thread has generated a positive response as to the billing of your night - more power to ya - Northern Soul is dead -

Long Live Northern Soul......................

Russ

When I 1st got took to the Mecca, the older lads said to me you want to come. "They play AMERICAN IMPORTS!"

At the time local clubs playing Stateside, Tamla, Atlantic, Stax etc.

So I went and didn't know any of the records, but 39 years later I'm still here.

[Kevinkent]

It makes a lot of sense to me & a great insight into early references to NS. Still brings me back to why some people use the term Rare Soul in a derogetary way tho' ?.

Russ

Like Chalky says, it's often through ignorance. It's a misconception of elitism maybe - which I find odd because there's plenty in the Top 500 that are pretty rare, and underplayed too nowadays.

Perhaps the fact that we do tend to label events as Rare or Oldies etc, contributes to the misconception. Not to long ago I played at an established "Oldies" venue. I played tunes that I love and that I thought would go down well. I was both pleased and surprised when the promoter later said to me "I really enjoyed your set - it does them good to hear something different". Well, I didn't think that they were too different - maybe I play them too much at home and forget that they're not played everywhere. It did make me think though that maybe other guest dj's read the "Oldies" label and think that they have to strictly conform and limit themselves. Obviously not the case, and perhaps a lot of dj's are guilty of adhering to preconceived boundarys when they could be breaking them down.

[Guest Byrney]

And whilst we're here.How come the "other" nights don't put up any playlists??.

Not putting up playlists only reinforces the myth that the tunes are top 500..!!!!!!!!

Please someone,anyone...?

I gave up asking this Kev, I, like most of us I assume still love some oldies and would have liked to see playlists to see if I might hear something other than the usual top 200 or so. If so I'd definitely put my head round the door.

[Pete Eccles]

And whilst we're here.How come the "other" nights don't put up any playlists??.

Is it 1/..they are ashamed of playing and dancing to the same stuff week in week out?

2/ not worth doing because the actual record is secondary to dancing.

3/ playing boots,and as much as they don't like the "new" scene and that its built on ovo,don't like admitting they are selling themselves and the punters short?

These are the folks who apparently went to Wigan,,,,to listen to new and rare stuff week in week out.What happened...???

Not putting up playlists only reinforces the myth that the tunes are top 500..!!!!!!!!

Please someone,anyone...?

Kev, on the odd occasion I am asked to play a few (usually oldies but not always) I will unashamedly play what I reckon the event requires, and stand or fall by my selections, what I'm not comfy with is putting myself up again by posting playlists after the event, when I leave the event that's my job done, the promoter of the night wants his attendees kept sweet, not the world wide web, too many playlists with label, demo/issue and request (as an excuse in case it may be seen as inferior by the purists) put on the end all smacks of cock waving anyway, and aren't I clever lad/girl, gizza spot kinda feel,

If the promoter wants to post a few titles from the night to give a taste of his event all well and good, but no playlists from me I'm afraid, not always a case of must be top 500, more a case of 'to each his own',

Probably drifted off topic there, so call what you listen, dance or whatever you do to whatever you like, just enjoy it,

[KevH]

I gave up asking this Kev, I, like most of us I assume still love some oldies and would have liked to see playlists to see if I might hear something other than the usual top 200 or so. If so I'd definitely put my head round the door.

And thats why we are qualified to ask the question Byrney.We can easily move within the scenes and are comfortable to a certain extent in either camp.Pity the same can't be said coming the other way.

[Billywhizz]

Is Northern Soul an outdated term ?, whilst the phrase Rare Soul Scene probably pre dates the label NS anyway should Allnighters/Soul Nights that have a music policy that reflects the original concept of the scene championing the new & underplayed revert back to promoting there venues as Rare Soul, therefore diffentiating themselves fom other events that are purely nostalgia based (not that there is anything wrong with that if its what you want BTW) ?.

Would definitly draw a line between the scenes...........especially as the music played is soooooooooooooo diverse, Rare Soul is a far better representation of what is actually played at these events dont you think................

Russ

hi russ, northern soul is not an outdated term, not in our life time, as far as rare soul scene is concerned, it is only rare if people have been off the scene for so many years, what i call rare is ian levine second hour at the rocket and tim brown blue and yellow record box, now that is what i call rare. and andy dyson comes up with some rare stuff and carl also. have a nice day, russ.

cheers billy

[funkyfeet]

The simple term is we are into non-mainstream soul music, whether it's the Artists or the songs. Even If the artist is mainstream we prefer hearing the obscure or unissued tracks by them. Lot's of the top 500 have become mainstream, that's why we don't want to hear them.

Edited July 24, 2010 by funkyfeet

[Paul Shirley]

Like Chalky says, it's often through ignorance. It's a misconception of elitism maybe - which I find odd because there's plenty in the Top 500 that are pretty rare, and underplayed too nowadays.

Perhaps the fact that we do tend to label events as Rare or Oldies etc, contributes to the misconception. Not to long ago I played at an established "Oldies" venue. I played tunes that I love and that I thought would go down well. I was both pleased and surprised when the promoter later said to me "I really enjoyed your set - it does them good to hear something different". Well, I didn't think that they were too different - maybe I play them too much at home and forget that they're not played everywhere. It did make me think though that maybe other guest dj's read the "Oldies" label and think that they have to strictly conform and limit themselves. Obviously not the case, and perhaps a lot of dj's are guilty of adhering to preconceived boundarys when they could be breaking them down.

that's sort of what i was wanting to say but i couldnt explain it like you did in a milion years .

[Russ Vickers]

If Richard Searling was a lot younger & had his later Wigan Casino plays now & they had never been exposed to a dance floor, would his sets appeal to the masses & be hailed as NS classics or would they/he be seen as a DJ that plays that Rare stuff ?.

If Butch was much older & was playing his recent discoveries at Wigan Casino would they be packing the floor & hailed as NS classics.........?

Answers on the back of a Mello Souls & posted to me..........

Russ

[Ezzie Brown]

my experience of the scene was to firstly hear and love sam cooke , drifters ,motown etc..........then records played at the wheel but at local clubs......... there good so lets try this torch place.......wow......more differant stuff.... .......5 years later stopped going. .........25years later ,,,,,,,,,,...........wow again....its changed . ...differant stuff....!!!.......where can i get to go and hear something differant every week....???..........been trying to do that ever since.................... the .top 500,??? ,we should all have our own individual one , and it should change every week, , it does for the more progressive amongst us................ ........ezzie........

Edited July 24, 2010 by ezzie brown

[Ezzie Brown]

btw.................i have seen a mate play out and been heckled from the floor because the crowd didnt know and therefore couldnt dance to the occasional record in his spot .. .. ...and it wasnt r&b .........then the resident / promoter / dj played the same 3 tracks in his spot and the floor was packed..... ............thats what your up against........ez

[Dazdakin]

How people become so negative to hearing stuff they have never heard before is beyond me.

Everybody got into this scene knowing nowt about obscure soul records and embraced the music that was new to them.

How does that passion change?

Why would anyone suddenly want to switch off and only listen to what they already know seems the exact opposite nature of what attracted them to this scene in the first place.

I can understand folk not liking certain genres, and I can appreciate that a full set of unknowns can be overbearing, but most of those that use the term Rare Soul in a derogatory manner don't seem to want to accept anything other the the tried and tested.

All that aside, it is getting tiresome of reading constant snipes and moans about Rare Soul Events from these people.

Perhaps they should concentrate on being positive about the stuff they do enjoy, rather than so negative about the stuff they don't.

Then we can all play nicely

No no no, i'm not gonna do it, i refuse to take the well laid bait..............however well presented it maybe:no:

[Mace]

No no no, i'm not gonna do it, i refuse to take the well laid bait..............however well presented it maybe:no:

????

As much as i enjoy playing bat and ball with you on here Daz, you have completely lost me on this one

[Guest Phoenix8049]

From what i remember the term "Rare Soul" starting being used regularly when Stafford first opened.

They were trying to let people Know that they never Play Pop Records.

Like they always Slagged Wigan off for doing.

Totally unjustified if you ask me.

Stu.

[Wrongcrowd]

From what i remember the term "Rare Soul" starting being used regularly when Stafford first opened.

They were trying to let people Know that they never Play Pop Records.

Like they always Slagged Wigan off for doing.

Totally unjustified if you ask me.

Stu.

The term RARE SOUL was used way before Stafford. By the end of the 70's the term 'Northern Soul' became synonomous with baggy trousered, beer towelled buffoons and was just too embarassing to be associated with......and still is.

Edited July 24, 2010 by Wrongcrowd

[Russ Vickers]

From what i remember the term "Rare Soul" starting being used regularly when Stafford first opened.

They were trying to let people Know that they never Play Pop Records.

Like they always Slagged Wigan off for doing.

Totally unjustified if you ask me.

Stu.

Whilst the term was widely used in the 8ts, I believe it was used long before then, can anyone confirm this or have I just made something up again .

Russ

[Russ Vickers]

The term RARE SOUL was used way before Stafford. By the end of the 70's the term 'Northern Soul' became synonomous with baggy trousered, beer towelled buffoons and was just too embarassing to be associated with......and still is.

Thanks Cliff...........

Russ

[Mike]

before my time but pic here has the "rare soul 71"

https://www.soul-sour...s-and-soul-r139

76/77 onwards was used a lot

on other side of tracks - memory says there was some who tried to push the term "northern dance"at the time when uk pop craze was at its peak but thankfully (imo) that never went anywhere

[Mrtag]

that's sort of what i was wanting to say but i couldnt explain it like you did in a milion years .

HI PAUL, I'M WITH YOU ON THIS ONE LOTS OF GREAT OLDIES ARE UNDERPLAYED AND THATS ONLY BECAUSE THEY ARE SO CALLED "RARE" AND SOMETIMES THATS JUST HOW IT WORKS OUT BUT IT DOESN'T MAKE IT A BAD TUNE!! ATB JOHN

Edited July 24, 2010 by mrtag

[Pauldonnelly]

are you into the Rare Soul 'scene' or rare souil?

[Tabs]

Thanks Mike.

I knew I had seen the term rare soul well before Northern was coined.

I've been wracking my brains trying to think where.

Mystery solved.

before my time but pic here has the "rare soul 71"

https://www.soul-sour...s-and-soul-r139

76/77 onwards was used a lot

on other side of tracks - memory says there was some who tried to push the term "northern dance"at the time when uk pop craze was at its peak but thankfully (imo) that never went anywhere

[mikecog]

BURN THEM, BURN THEM, BURN THEM.................................................()

Russ

Along with their baggy's and vests !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!