Rules

[Premium Stuff]

sorry you are finding this hard to understand Pete, i thought it was pretty clear:

i keep getting told that they need to be on orig format or i'm in danger of not getting asked to do future spots.

if i played the legit test press of LJH out, would that mean i am putting myself in 'danger' of not getting asked to do future spots?

I cant make it any simpler than that ...... apologies if i have not read all the threads regarding british V us records

regards,

mike

Hi Mike - given that your question is so specific about one record, and that you are DJing probably just a couple of times a year (one or two venues?) the easiest thing must just be to check policy with the promoter and/or the other DJs - surely it's them that would 'not ask you back', rather than the punters?

Cheers

Richard

[Russ Vickers]

Firstly there is no rule book, just a moral code & the personal opinions of DJ's & promoters. Whilst we're not bossom buddies Mike, I know you well enough to know you wouldnt play a set of boots, reissues or whatever, so depending on the event & promoters inclination I would say do what ya want. IMO you have enough great records on OV not to have to bother with this anyway.

The reason I get a bit touchy over this kinda thing from others is there are people out there who would eat thier own children to DJ walking round with a box full o boots n carvers & nothing else, they will tell you it doesntt matter what format a record is played from & that the punters dont care - bollocks - if they could have the original they would play em every time & only use this excuse because it suits there end, they get all arsey with other OVO DJ/Collectors/promoters cos thier jealous generally.

I dont agree with the above in any way shape or form, however if a local collector does a spot at a local night & plays 99% from OV if an odd reissue or boot is played in there some where who really cares. Its the folk who deliberately muddy the waters on the issue to get away with playing anything any where.

Best Russ

Edited July 26, 2010 by Russ Vickers

[Supercorsa]

For arguments sake.

Is it acceptable to play out Barbara Lewis - The Stars or Tommy Hunts - Pretty Part Of You on Horaces? And if not, on which label would they be acceptable?

Edited July 25, 2010 by Supercorsa

[Chalky]

For arguments sake.

Is it acceptable to play out Barbara Lewis - The Stars or Tommy Hunts - Pretty Part Of You on Horaces? And if not, on which label would they be acceptable?

they are unissued aren't they think that's the difference with those and Little Johnny Hamilton and Mike's dilema.

[Godzilla]

they are unissued aren't they think that's the difference with those and Little Johnny Hamilton and Mike's dilema.

Surely The Stars is on "The Many Grooves of..." LP - or is the Horace's 45 a different cut?

[Chalky]

Surely The Stars is on "The Many Grooves of..." LP - or is the Horace's 45 a different cut?

I mean as a 45

[Ady Croasdell]

As a promoter and reissuer of records I would have no qualms about playing a Disco Demand or Kent or Grapevine 45 but wouldn't play a Soul Sounds, OOTP or most Goldmines as the royalties won't have gone to the label owner, writer or artist. Its a ridiculous situation if you can't play a reissue (or usually 1st UK issue) because a DJ has either discovered it or paid a lot of money for it. I'd play a Kent 45 of Salt and Pepper if Butch wasn't going to play it (credit where it's due) or spin it at a nighter where I'm guesting even if Joe Bloggs was on next an had coughed up X grand for it.

[Guest]

As a promoter and reissuer of records I would have no qualms about playing a Disco Demand or Kent or Grapevine 45 but wouldn't play a Soul Sounds, OOTP or most Goldmines as the royalties won't have gone to the label owner, writer or artist. Its a ridiculous situation if you can't play a reissue (or usually 1st UK issue) because a DJ has either discovered it or paid a lot of money for it. I'd play a Kent 45 of Salt and Pepper if Butch wasn't going to play it (credit where it's due) or spin it at a nighter where I'm guesting even if Joe Bloggs was on next an had coughed up X grand for it.

Hi Ady. if i am reading this correct you are saying you would have no qualms in putting the Horaces test press of LJH in your orig box and playing it out?

despite all the other comments, if this is what you are saying then i will be transfering it to my orig box ...... if it's good enough for the 100 club to give the thumbs up thats good enough for me....... and the soul police can go suck eggs

Edited July 26, 2010 by mikecook

[KevH]

Hi Ady. if i am reading this correct you are saying you would have no qualms in putting the Horaces test press of LJH in your orig box and playing it out?

despite all the other comments, if this is what you are saying then i will be transfering it to my orig box ...... if it's good enough for the 100 club to give the thumbs up thats good enough for me....... and the soul police can go suck eggs

Its a UK first release after all Mike.Same argument could apply to the Soul City recent releases as well.Some of those are first time on UK label.

[Ernie Andrews]

:yes:I did a list of what was acceptable and what wasnt for debate on another site.

Ill try to retrieve it if I can.

The purpose of it was to standardise so that promoters and Djs could decide whether they wanted a OVO or non OVO and not get slagged.

Sorry Pete but others do have opinion on what they think is right

Anyone watch the film last night "The wave" It was a great example of the debate.

If no-one told you what was right or not how would you know and Im not talking just N.S here.

This scene was originated on obscure original records not F***king Boots represses etc so that should answer it

DJs who play Boots / represses etc are "Lazy DJs in my humble oipnion who just want 15 mins of fame!

Edited July 26, 2010 by Ernie Andrews

[Ady Croasdell]

Its a UK first release after all Mike.Same argument could apply to the Soul City recent releases as well.Some of those are first time on UK label.

This is of course a minefield as I'd be very surprised if all the latterday Soul City releases were legitimately licensed, I'm sure some are but others we've been trying to get for years with no luck at all.

[Guest]

:yes:I did a list of what was acceptable and what wasnt for debate on another site.

Ill try to retrieve it if I can.

The purpose of it was to standardise so that promoters and Djs could decide whether they wanted a OVO or non OVO and not get slagged.

Sorry Pete but others do have opinion on what they think is right

Anyone watch the film last night "The wave" It was a great example of the debate.

If no-one told you what was right or not how would you know and Im not talking just N.S here.

This scene was originated on obscure original records not F***king Boots represses etc so that should answer it

DJs who play Boots / represses etc are "Lazy DJs in my humble oipnion who just want 15 mins of fame!

just to make it absolutely CLEAR ... this is not a thread about playing boots ..... why some would try to make this an argument about boots is beyond me ....... IT IS ABOUT A LEGIT TEST PRESS OF LITTLE JOHNNY HAMILTON

i think the 100 club has been going for slightly more than 15 minutes Ernie

Edited July 26, 2010 by mikecook

[Ady Croasdell]

:yes:I did a list of what was acceptable and what wasnt for debate on another site.

Ill try to retrieve it if I can.

The purpose of it was to standardise so that promoters and Djs could decide whether they wanted a OVO or non OVO and not get slagged.

Sorry Pete but others do have opinion on what they think is right

Anyone watch the film last night "The wave" It was a great example of the debate.

If no-one told you what was right or not how would you know and Im not talking just N.S here.

This scene was originated on obscure original records not F***king Boots represses etc so that should answer it

DJs who play Boots / represses etc are "Lazy DJs in my humble oipnion who just want 15 mins of fame!

I don't think it's lazy to buy a legitimate reissue, it's actually more likely to help the artist than buying an original would. As DJs entertaining the public, one of the deciding factors should be what's the sound quality of the different legitimate pressings like (the boots will nearly always sound worse). UK presses aren't always that good, some Disco Demands were poor others were good. I bought a US Showmen 'Our Love Will Grow' rather than play the inferior quality Action copy I had.

Several UK Atlantic 60s pressings were bad and I think most UK Motown and Stateside was dubbed in the 60s so would be inferior sound to their US counterparts in most cases.

[Pete S]

Sorry Pete but others do have opinion on what they think is right

By all means have an opinion but don't expect me to give a f*ck about your opinion because it's mine that counts, not yours. I don't mean you personally Steve. Oh alright then, yes I do

[Chalky]

just to make it absolutely CLEAR ... this is not a thread about playing boots ..... why some would try to make this an argument about boots is beyond me ....... IT IS ABOUT A LEGIT TEST PRESS OF LITTLE JOHNNY HAMILTON

i think the 100 club has been going for slightly more than 15 minutes Ernie

but some wouldn't play a re-issue when there is a genuine US original label issue.

[Guest]

but some wouldn't play a re-issue when there is a genuine US original label issue.

that's absolutely fine Chalky...and those opinions i am listening to ...... its angry scotsmen Steve f'ing & jeffin about boots that got my back up .... no need for it on a thread about legitamate records

Edited July 26, 2010 by mikecook

[Dave Thorley]

No, yes, well maybe, hang him, hold him up as a hero, what!!!!!!

[Guest]

but some wouldn't play a re-issue when there is a genuine US original label issue.

..and just as an added

other threads that ask about playing first issues and second issues got the overwhelming response that it is ok to play a reissue of a record; just one example being Big Maybell - cant wait any longer (reissued on B side of Quittin time "ok to play"

double bloody standards and hypocrosy come to mind when listening to some of the opinions

[Chalky]

..and just as an added

other threads that ask about playing first issues and second issues got the overwhelming response that it is ok to play a reissue of a record; just one example being Big Maybell - cant wait any longer (reissued on B side of Quittin time "ok to play"

double bloody standards and hypocrosy come to mind when listening to some of the opinions

yes but the difference with that is that is a legitimate original label release, you are talking about UK re-issues done especially for the UK Rare Soul Scene. I'm surprised anyone would even consider questioning the Big Maybelle Rojac releases.

[Guest]

yes but the difference with that is that is a legitimate original label release, you are talking about UK re-issues done especially for the UK Rare Soul Scene. I'm surprised anyone would even consider questioning the Big Maybelle Rojac releases.

I get it now

when is a re-issue not a re-issue ..... when 'we' say so

when is an original not an original .... when 'we' say so

So I will go with the 'we' who say that the 1st UK release is an original and stick it in my original box

I wonder how many of the 'purists' will no longer attend the 100 club now they know that 1st UK releases could be played out there

sometimes i despair

[KevH]

I get it now

when is a re-issue not a re-issue ..... when 'we' say so

when is an original not an original .... when 'we' say so

So I will go with the 'we' who say that the 1st UK release is an original and stick it in my original box

I wonder how many of the 'purists' will no longer attend the 100 club now they know that 1st UK releases could be played out there

sometimes i despair

Take a deep breath Mike.Big Maybelle's releases were re-issued on legit labels,same take,same label.No-one really is going to pull anyone up on that sort of issue.Buddy Lamp "I wanna go home"? - who cares which matrix number?.Only if you're buying or selling.

[Guest]

I may just put it in the sales section and remove my problem

wonder how much it would fetch if put up for offers? ... Horaces original test press.....don't see too many of these legit releases.....unfortunatly, it cannot be played at any venues

[Chalky]

So I will go with the 'we' who say that the 1st UK release is an original and stick it in my original box

thank fook for that, two pages of discussion and we have a decision

[Chalky]

I may just put it in the sales section and remove my problem

wonder how much it would fetch if put up for offers? ... Horaces original test press.....don't see too many of these legit releases.....unfortunatly, it cannot be played at any venues

[Guest]

take a deep breath Chalky wanna borrow a paper bag?

Edited July 26, 2010 by mikecook

[KevH]

take a deep breath Chalky wanna borrow a paper bag?

Having me dinner..what's the verdict?

[Chalky]

Having me dinner..what's the verdict?

in out, in out, shake it all about

[Guest]

Having me dinner..what's the verdict?

sold for £100

[Guest]

Just for the record I know of two well respected DJ's that have played BOOTS out. They dont get questioned because of who they are. Us minor DJ's will always be under the microscope .

I'm curious about this and other similar posts stating they know a 'well known' DJ who plays boots. If it's true and there's a lot of posts suggesting it is then why has nobody just named said DJs?

Maybe then they would get questioned just like all the minor DJs...being a minor DJ myself, I must be lucky to have escaped the microscope as I can't ever remember being questioned by anyone who doubts the records I play are originals.

Name these 'respected DJs' and tell us what boots they play, because if you do a lot of people would have a keen eye on the decks when the DJ is playing his set

Edited July 27, 2010 by Guest

[Guest WPaulVanDyk]

just do what you think is right. legit test pressings must be able to get played. or do they have the same problem with re-issues

[Ernie Andrews]

that's absolutely fine Chalky...and those opinions i am listening to ...... its angry scotsmen Steve f'ing & jeffin about boots that got my back up .... no need for it on a thread about legitamate records

My anger is that unlike you Mike who have asked the question- Others dont do any research at all and dont give a F**K about the origins of the scene and just want 15 mins of fame playing NS purpose released uk issues

Question

How many on here would play Doris Troy on Mojo knowing it was a reissue of the Cameo release.

This scene is not only about the music itself but about the obtainability factor.

The Big Maybelle item is a red herring because when Rojac re-released I cant wait any longer theyr werent aiming at the NS ssne wehereas the Pye disco demand were and thats one of the key factors about the choice of whats acceptable and whats not otherwise lets forget vinyl in total and just play of Computers -Ipods etc.

before anyone says it - It does matter and therefore thats why the debate is ongoing.

P.S Dave Thorley - Theres enough in Aberdeen who would like to see me hanged without you Dave:lol:

Love the sarcasm Pete!

P.S. (not pete smith) Thanks for crossing out the "Scotsmen" Mike

Question for Ady- Why dont we just reissue everything legitimately and play them and we can forget anything about rare records - No Ive got it Ady dont reissue anything just put them up as licensed downloads and we can all DJ with Computers and forget this rarity nonsense once and for all!

Think of the benefits:

1. Not spending hours trawling the internet

2. Spending my money on some other trivial rubbish

3. Instant Dj status and equal DJ status with people like Butch/ Levine/ Curtis/Searling/ Soul Sam etc because we would all have the same tunes

4. Wouldnt meet people who collect records and have good discussions about originality and history

5. Wouldnt have that great feeling of whats coming through the postbox

6. Wouldnt have to search through thousands of dirty pieces of plastic looking for that exclusive tune

7. Wouldnt have to get angry about losing out on ebay cos Im a stingy sod

Theres loads more but the list would be very long!

Now do you really want this!

Steve Eckersley AKA DJ Ecclecake - Valued member of the Soul Police association

[Ady Croasdell]

Question for Ady- Why dont we just reissue everything legitimately and play them and we can forget anything about rare records - No Ive got it Ady dont reissue anything just put them up as licensed downloads and we can all DJ with Computers and forget this rarity nonsense once and for all!

Think of the benefits:

1. Not spending hours trawling the internet

2. Spending my money on some other trivial rubbish

3. Instant Dj status and equal DJ status with people like Butch/ Levine/ Curtis/Searling/ Soul Sam etc because we would all have the same tunes

4. Wouldnt meet people who collect records and have good discussions about originality and history

5. Wouldnt have that great feeling of whats coming through the postbox

6. Wouldnt have to search through thousands of dirty pieces of plastic looking for that exclusive tune

7. Wouldnt have to get angry about losing out on ebay cos Im a stingy sod

Theres loads more but the list would be very long!

Now do you really want this!

Steve Eckersley AKA DJ Ecclecake - Valued member of the Soul Police association

Because there are too many records and new ones being found all the time, I thought that was one of the great qualities of the Northern Soul scene. A DJ would either find or champion a record, the collectors and other DJs would chase it and hopefully a contact would be made, the record re-released and bought by people who just wanted to have it on 45 and weren't desperate or couldn't afford a US original. The DJs should then move on to their next discovery and play out the original in a few years time when it was due a bit of a revival. Only a small percentage of played records would actually get re-released due to the hard and expensive work that goes into it and the size of the Northern Soul market.

It's a silly premise, the UK issuing about as many 45s as were released in Black America between say 1963 and 1980. So points 1 to 7 are bollox though quite entertaining bollox.

Ady Croasdell AKA Harboro Horace soul music fan.

[Ezzie Brown]

if its ok for people to play boots reissues etc....................fine.............i hope they just announce this when the record comes up in the same way someone might say "this is my latest discovery let me know what you think cos i love it......... "............... the re issue favouring man should say to the punters........ " couldnt be arsed to look for this or pay for it when it was hard to get , but now its £10 on mannies ,here ya go, collectingis easy isnt it!!!! " ..........but they dont do they.....why not ????????...ezzie

[Mike E]

As a promoter and reissuer of records I would have no qualms about playing a Disco Demand or Kent or Grapevine 45 but wouldn't play a Soul Sounds, OOTP or most Goldmines as the royalties won't have gone to the label owner, writer or artist. Its a ridiculous situation if you can't play a reissue (or usually 1st UK issue) because a DJ has either discovered it or paid a lot of money for it. I'd play a Kent 45 of Salt and Pepper if Butch wasn't going to play it (credit where it's due) or spin it at a nighter where I'm guesting even if Joe Bloggs was on next an had coughed up X grand for it.

My 2 venues(Riverside and Gloucester Allnighter) are OVO venues but as the Promoter I have said on my Website and if anyone asks me that Kent issues/reissues are an exception. Yes, Salt and Pepper is ok. Not just because I have it on Kent:lol:

Edited July 27, 2010 by Mike E

[Guest gordon russell]

Get a dj spot at a Nottingham soul venue...99% of um dont give a S**T what a 45 is played on

surely this cannot be true...........they are all so authentic and true to the spirit of Wigan........l feel so let down:( by this scene sometimes...........next you,ll be telling us they play a few pop tunes as well ? you know things like the deadbeats and billy arnel.........

[Ady Croasdell]

if its ok for people to play boots reissues etc....................fine.............i hope they just announce this when the record comes up in the same way someone might say "this is my latest discovery let me know what you think cos i love it......... "............... the re issue favouring man should say to the punters........ " couldnt be arsed to look for this or pay for it when it was hard to get , but now its £10 on mannies ,here ya go, collectingis easy isnt it!!!! " ..........but they dont do they.....why not ????????...ezzie

Don't be ridiculous where on earth did anyone say it's OK to play boots?

If I play a new Kent release I'll say it's on Kent and that it's now available in the shops, go out and buy it and support the people who made the music in the first place. I'm sure there are a lot of DJs on here who would do the same.

[Ernie Andrews]

Because there are too many records and new ones being found all the time, I thought that was one of the great qualities of the Northern Soul scene. A DJ would either find or champion a record, the collectors and other DJs would chase it and hopefully a contact would be made, the record re-released and bought by people who just wanted to have it on 45 and weren't desperate or couldn't afford a US original. The DJs should then move on to their next discovery and play out the original in a few years time when it was due a bit of a revival. Only a small percentage of played records would actually get re-released due to the hard and expensive work that goes into it and the size of the Northern Soul market.

It's a silly premise, the UK issuing about as many 45s as were released in Black America between say 1963 and 1980. So points 1 to 7 are bollox though quite entertaining bollox.

Ady Croasdell AKA Harboro Horace soul music fan.

Actually Ady in regards to just using computers points 1-7 with the exception of 6 are not Bollox.

Ive been involved in a local feud up here about the OVO subject and wanted to debate the subject face to face in a neutral situation those who I regard as bringing the scene into disrepute as far as Djing is concerend on the NS scene- Granted they have a perfectly good argument about playing boots but wont discuss it with me in person.

I still think people who decide to play previous issued records are lazy in the fact that they wont take the time to research but take the plaudits in what my view is disengenous.

If Someone plays the Hamilton movement - eg Babs Grassi then people clap not only for the music but the recognition that this Dj spent her hard earned cash on the elusive antique as opposed to Mr Wannabee Dj who goes and buys the boot / reissue whatever you want to call it and expects that the accolades come in for them and then class themselves as a leader of the genre. Sorry It dont wash!

Example when buying an original record as a DJ as opposed to a reissue / boot etc.

I pay £400 for the Tokays - When I get it I do a lot of cross referencing to make sure its original

Mr Wannabee Dj buys the Sevens 45 for £5 and doesnt give a shit because he knows its not an original.

Is that caring for the music /scene/origins etc?

ATb Steve

[Guest WPaulVanDyk]

well i have a question based on this if anyone would answer.

i could be classed as wannabe DJ , but lucky some people here gave me a go at city club and in a pub. I am only 29 and have no idea on all the records i have in 2 boxes as to what is original or not. i am aware of some re-issues and have never played them and wouldn't. i know i have some originals but any i have which i am unsure of i need to know as i would put all originals in 1 box. i can't ask someone on every record to check for me. that would be pushing it. so i am denied the chance to DJ again in case i play a re-issue i didn't it was.

[Guest]

well i have a question based on this if anyone would answer.

i could be classed as wannabe DJ , but lucky some people here gave me a go at city club and in a pub. I am only 29 and have no idea on all the records i have in 2 boxes as to what is original or not. i am aware of some re-issues and have never played them and wouldn't. i know i have some originals but any i have which i am unsure of i need to know as i would put all originals in 1 box. i can't ask someone on every record to check for me. that would be pushing it. so i am denied the chance to DJ again in case i play a re-issue i didn't it was.

Brilliant post, funniest thing I've read for ages.....but just in case it's not a joke and that's a serious question then my serious answer is: spend a few quid on John Manships USA Price Guide Edition 5 and then put a little time into checking your records?? As well as a price guide it also shows information on bootlegs along with a huge number of scans.

Or, and this is a bit experimental, but you could use the internet to search google or even do some searches on a website called soul source????

If you can't be bothered to find out this essential piece of information about your own records then I'm amazed you seriously think you should be DJing anywhere.

[Dave Thorley]

Our obsession with originals only can/could be a two edged sword.

Have noticed over the last few years, DJ's and I don't exclude myself from this, playing lesser quality copies of records just to have a copy of a record to play. Is this fair on the paying public, who pay good money to get into venues, only to hear 'Chip fryer' sound quality from the sound system.

Secondly, god forbid if any young person wanted to start djing, the cost of buying originals only, may well put them off even starting.

Lastly, the other effect of this overiding atitude, is that we may not hear the best DJ's, as more and more we hear the people with big bucks, with fantastic collections, but not a clue how to DJ dominate the line ups of many venues.

Just my thoughts, don't expect everyone to agree

Dave

Edited July 28, 2010 by Dave Thorley

[Dave Thorley]

PS.

Back in the day every top DJ to a man, played one or two acetates, or less than Kosha disc. You went out to hear the best DJ's (and I mean entertainers as well), play the best sounds, to string together a set of great records that made your head spin. They had the ability to wind up the crowd and create excitment and sometimes to do that, they needed a record that they didn't have on an original copy, did we really care, did we hell.

Now with the much greater availbility of originals this should not be the case so much now days, but do we hear the best DJ's???

Edited July 28, 2010 by Dave Thorley

[Ady Croasdell]

well i have a question based on this if anyone would answer.

i could be classed as wannabe DJ , but lucky some people here gave me a go at city club and in a pub. I am only 29 and have no idea on all the records i have in 2 boxes as to what is original or not. i am aware of some re-issues and have never played them and wouldn't. i know i have some originals but any i have which i am unsure of i need to know as i would put all originals in 1 box. i can't ask someone on every record to check for me. that would be pushing it. so i am denied the chance to DJ again in case i play a re-issue i didn't it was.

Just out of interest Paul, why wouldn't you play a legitimate reissue, as you're only just starting to DJ, I wouldn't have thought the venue, promoter or crowd would be that fanatical.

[Ady Croasdell]

Actually Ady in regards to just using computers points 1-7 with the exception of 6 are not Bollox.

Ive been involved in a local feud up here about the OVO subject and wanted to debate the subject face to face in a neutral situation those who I regard as bringing the scene into disrepute as far as Djing is concerend on the NS scene- Granted they have a perfectly good argument about playing boots but wont discuss it with me in person.

I still think people who decide to play previous issued records are lazy in the fact that they wont take the time to research but take the plaudits in what my view is disengenous.

If Someone plays the Hamilton movement - eg Babs Grassi then people clap not only for the music but the recognition that this Dj spent her hard earned cash on the elusive antique as opposed to Mr Wannabee Dj who goes and buys the boot / reissue whatever you want to call it and expects that the accolades come in for them and then class themselves as a leader of the genre. Sorry It dont wash!

Example when buying an original record as a DJ as opposed to a reissue / boot etc.

I pay £400 for the Tokays - When I get it I do a lot of cross referencing to make sure its original

Mr Wannabee Dj buys the Sevens 45 for £5 and doesnt give a shit because he knows its not an original.

Is that caring for the music /scene/origins etc?

ATb Steve

As there is never going to be a time when all the soul records in the world are available for everyone to use, I beg to differ, your hypothetical case is just that and therefore those points irrelevant cos it ain't gonna happen.

If I applaud a record, I applaud the music or the DJ for playing it in the right place at the right time. I have never in my life applauded a DJ because they have acquired a record, especially if they've paid a load of money for it. Anyone can buy a record as long as they've got enough money, just keep increasing it until it sells. Seriously, does anyone other than Steve do this? Neither do I think that anyone who played a reissue available to the public would stand there waiting for applause for having bought it. If there was applause it would be for the quality of the record and possibly for playing it at the pertinent time. And of course they wouldn't then claim to be leaders of anything as most of the crowd would know the record was available; your scenarios are so ridiculous that the conclusions you then draw from them are pure gibberish.

You buy an original, good luck to you, well done but if Mr wannabee wants to buy a reissue, then he's contributing to the legitimate music makers and is actually putting some money they're way while you are not. So the answer is yes, it is caring for the music/ scene/ origins.

Ady

[Ady Croasdell]

PS.

Back in the day every top DJ to a man, played one or two acetates, or less than Kosha disc. You went out to hear the best DJ's (and I mean entertainers as well), play the best sounds, to string together a set of great records that made your head spin. They had the ability to wind up the crowd and create excitment and sometimes to do that, they needed a record that they didn't have on an original copy, did we really care, did we hell.

Now with the much greater availbility of originals this should not be the case so much now days, but do we hear the best DJ's???

Agreed Dave but of course soul records were even more mysterious objects than they are today, very few of us had a clue as to rights, producers, artists etc. In the ensuing 40 years we've learnt enough to be able to pay our dues if we really want to.

[Sean Hampsey]

As there is never going to be a time when all the soul records in the world are available for everyone to use, I beg to differ, your hypothetical case is just that and therefore those points irrelevant cos it ain't gonna happen.

If I applaud a record, I applaud the music or the DJ for playing it in the right place at the right time. I have never in my life applauded a DJ because they have acquired a record, especially if they've paid a load of money for it. Anyone can buy a record as long as they've got enough money, just keep increasing it until it sells. Seriously, does anyone other than Steve do this? Neither do I think that anyone who played a reissue available to the public would stand there waiting for applause for having bought it. If there was applause it would be for the quality of the record and possibly for playing it at the pertinent time. And of course they wouldn't then claim to be leaders of anything as most of the crowd would know the record was available; your scenarios are so ridiculous that the conclusions you then draw from them are pure gibberish.

You buy an original, good luck to you, well done but if Mr wannabee wants to buy a reissue, then he's contributing to the legitimate music makers and is actually putting some money they're way while you are not. So the answer is yes, it is caring for the music/ scene/ origins.

Ady

It's becoming a tiresome question Ady.

Totally bizarre that some folk on here seem to confuse 'legitimate reissues' with 'boots' and don't seem to understand the origins, motivations or differences between the two.

Your point regarding 'helping the artist' by purchasing and promoting 'legit' reissues has to be paramount in the mind of the real Soul Music fan.

I'm much more impressed by the tireless efforts of people such as you, Tony Rounce, Dean Rudland etc. in finding, licensing and reissuing these magnificent works of art, to finally benefit the artist, than I am by somebody who simply bought and played a rare 45.... just because it's bloody rare!

Sean

[Dave Thorley]

Agreed Dave but of course soul records were even more mysterious objects than they are today, very few of us had a clue as to rights, producers, artists etc. In the ensuing 40 years we've learnt enough to be able to pay our dues if we really want to.

Totally agree Ady, point being total obssesion with, lets say first issue, can't play legal second pressings, UK issues etc, dosn't always give us the most exciting DJ's or even, dare I say, venues.

[Simsy]

Its a UK first release after all

UK shmoo kay, It's a ten pound bleeding sound is what it is. If I've travelled 200 miles and paid 12 quid to get in and see that turd on the turntable ... you deserve to be batted round the head with it.

[Ady Croasdell]

UK shmoo kay, It's a ten pound bleeding sound is what it is. If I've travelled 200 miles and paid 12 quid to get in and see that turd on the turntable ... you deserve to be batted round the head with it.

i can totally see the OVO arguments but think they would probably only apply to a small percentage of clubs and there are always exceptions to most rules. I think the OVO crowd should think about the supporting the music's makers as well as preserving their scene.

[Ged Parker]

Any legitimate DJ should play legitimate recordings end of story.

A carver made from something you own is a legitiate recording. A carver made from something you don't own isn't.

A tune downloaded from iTunes and you have legally paid for is legitimate, if you copy it to another device or change the format it isn't.

A bootleg is not and cannot be considered legitimate.

You must be true to yourself first off.

You make a choice. Do you want to be a legitimate DJ or not? Oh and if you do you should pay you dues to PPL and if playing of digital media get a Digital DJ Licence.

Then there are different promotors views which can be grouped:

Those that don't care if their DJ's are legitimate or what format their music is played in.

Those that only book legitimate DJ's and don't care what format their music is played in.

Those that only book legitimate DJ's and want their venues to be OVO.

With several shades of grey in between each group.

If you want to play in every type of venue be prepared to match your output to the promotors policy. (and possibly have to justify yourself on here)

You decide where (as a DJ) you want to fit - no one else.

Promotors decide their policy (and which DJ's to book) - no one else.

Punters decide where to go using their own criteria - no one else.

It's simple really.

[Guest]

A carver made from something you own is a legitiate recording.

A tune downloaded from iTunes and you have legally paid for is legitimate, if you copy it to another device or change the format it isn't.

It's simple really.