Rules

[boba]

Any legitimate DJ should play legitimate recordings end of story.

A carver made from something you own is a legitiate recording. A carver made from something you don't own isn't.

A tune downloaded from iTunes and you have legally paid for is legitimate, if you copy it to another device or change the format it isn't.

why do you own something "more" if you bought the vinyl versus if you downloaded it? this makes no sense. You don't legally have any more rights in either case.

[Guest]

Any legitimate DJ should play legitimate recordings end of story.

With several shades of grey in between each group.

It's simple really.

[Guest]

why do you own something "more" if you bought the vinyl versus if you downloaded it? this makes no sense. You don't legally have any more rights in either case.

abso-bloody-lutely agree

see post number 100

[Guest]

waiting for the justifications

[Ged Parker]

why do you own something "more" if you bought the vinyl versus if you downloaded it? this makes no sense. You don't legally have any more rights in either case.

Sorry bob but you do. iTunes operate a DRM ( Digital Rights Management) that stipulates that any download can be used only on the device to which it was downloaded. So if you wanted a track on your ipod downstairs and a seperate one in your bedroom you needed to download it twice.

A track you own and have purchased on (be it on a CD, vinyl or other phisical format) you are allowed to make a copy of, for you use in place of the original and it this copy can be in any format analogue or digital. So having a carver cut of something you own is legal.

Thats the position in the UK anyway.

[boba]

Sorry bob but you do. iTunes operate a DRM ( Digital Rights Management) that stipulates that any download can be used only on the device to which it was downloaded. So if you wanted a track on your ipod downstairs and a seperate one in your bedroom you needed to download it twice.

A track you own and have purchased on (be it on a CD, vinyl or other phisical format) you are allowed to make a copy of, for you use in place of the original and it this copy can be in any format analogue or digital. So having a carver cut of something you own is legal.

Thats the position in the UK anyway.

ok thanks for clarifying. but in this case your argument depends on the specific contractual terms of downloading from itunes, and wouldn't necessarily apply to other download sites. Also, you are saying that you can make a carver out of a CD track, your original post made it sound like something specific to vinyl.

[Ged Parker]

Any legitimate DJ should play legitimate recordings end of story.

With several shades of grey in between each group.

It's simple really.

No wonder you're banging your head against the wall.

You've used one simple comment that legitimate DJs only play legitimate recordings which is an absolute and applied to it a totally out of context comment which applies to something very different.

If you can't understand the different types of venue and don't know from the venues you go to (DJ at) or you don't know from speaking to promotors which is which I feel very very sorry for you and can understand your need to start this topic.

Edited July 28, 2010 by ged parker

[Ged Parker]

ok thanks for clarifying. but in this case your argument depends on the specific contractual terms of downloading from itunes, and wouldn't necessarily apply to other download sites. Also, you are saying that you can make a carver out of a CD track, your original post made it sound like something specific to vinyl.

Yes Bob thats why I named iTunes it doesn't apply to the newly launched HMV download service for example. You can also make a carver from a CD track. It has to be for your own personal use though. Legally you cannot sell it.

[Simsy]

i can totally see the OVO arguments but think they would probably only apply to a small percentage of clubs and there are always exceptions to most rules. I think the OVO crowd should think about the supporting the music's makers as well as preserving their scene.

Maybe I'm naive to hope that a greater percentage of clubs would have some ovo pride.

As previously stated I've got no problems with an 'allsorts' policy at free to get in pub club room knees up type deal down the end of my road. However if we're putting our shirts, trousers and loafers/brogues on, £30+ in petrol (3 of us) £30+ in door tax, then show me the Dore 754! From a punters point of view that's furry muff?

Topic starter knew there were rules and these are they no? I''ve got Little Johnny on Horace's. It's not a turd btw (sorry) harsh. So I hope I've done my small bit for him. As a punter though it's got to be the real deal really, or we leave the door a-jar for Charlie Chancer Esq.

[Pete S]

Sorry bob but you do. iTunes operate a DRM ( Digital Rights Management) that stipulates that any download can be used only on the device to which it was downloaded. So if you wanted a track on your ipod downstairs and a seperate one in your bedroom you needed to download it twice.

Or just get round the DRM protection - would anyone really download the same thing twice?

[Ged Parker]

Or just get round the DRM protection - would anyone really download the same thing twice?

Were not discussing just 'anyone' here though are we Pete (or downloads really for that matter). This is about DJ's. My point was that if you're serious about being a legitimate DJ then you either do it legitimately or you don't. Its up to the topic starter to decide which he wants to be not us as you've already pointed out more than once.

See here for reason why

Edited July 28, 2010 by ged parker

[KevH]

Maybe I'm naive to hope that a greater percentage of clubs would have some ovo pride.

As previously stated I've got no problems with an 'allsorts' policy at free to get in pub club room knees up type deal down the end of my road. However if we're putting our shirts, trousers and loafers/brogues on, £30+ in petrol (3 of us) £30+ in door tax, then show me the Dore 754! From a punters point of view that's furry muff?

Topic starter knew there were rules and these are they no? I''ve got Little Johnny on Horace's. It's not a turd btw (sorry) harsh. So I hope I've done my small bit for him. As a punter though it's got to be the real deal really, or we leave the door a-jar for Charlie Chancer Esq.

You really know how to hurt someone Simsy.. ,and i've no wish to be turd bashed over the head thank you. .

The point about it being a UK release was to give it at least some legitmacy.BITD some of the very first club tunes were played off of Stateside etc......

All Mike has to do (with LJH) is wait 30 years or so for acceptance....

[Ernie Andrews]

Any legitimate DJ should play legitimate recordings end of story.

A carver made from something you own is a legitiate recording. A carver made from something you don't own isn't.

A tune downloaded from iTunes and you have legally paid for is legitimate, if you copy it to another device or change the format it isn't.

A bootleg is not and cannot be considered legitimate.

You must be true to yourself first off.

You make a choice. Do you want to be a legitimate DJ or not? Oh and if you do you should pay you dues to PPL and if playing of digital media get a Digital DJ Licence.

Then there are different promotors views which can be grouped:

Those that don't care if their DJ's are legitimate or what format their music is played in.

Those that only book legitimate DJ's and don't care what format their music is played in.

Those that only book legitimate DJ's and want their venues to be OVO.

With several shades of grey in between each group.

If you want to play in every type of venue be prepared to match your output to the promotors policy. (and possibly have to justify yourself on here)

You decide where (as a DJ) you want to fit - no one else.

Promotors decide their policy (and which DJ's to book) - no one else.

Punters decide where to go using their own criteria - no one else.

It's simple really.

This is the answer I was looking for with one exception

You can make a copy for personal use but does not include use for public broadcasting which is what a Dj does.

ADY you missed my point entirely

My point was we can get rid of all of this rairity issue by downloads and help the artists at the same time.

Every Dj would have 1000s of tunes at their disposal and it would nearly get rid of the legitmacy issue.

The same people who argue that OVO is elitest are the same people who wont let DJs use Laptops cos "we play vinyl only here"

Its just Hypocrisy in my humble opinion.

Hey you do a great Job no one can question that - each to their own as most of us have done something good for a particular scene. In my case its Football in your case its music.

[Ged Parker]

This is the answer I was looking for with one exception

You can make a copy for personal use but does not include use for public broadcasting which is what a Dj does.

ADY you missed my point entirely

My point was we can get rid of all of this rairity issue by downloads and help the artists at the same time.

Every Dj would have 1000s of tunes at their disposal and it would nearly get rid of the legitmacy issue.

The same people who argue that OVO is elitest are the same people who wont let DJs use Laptops cos "we play vinyl only here"

Its just Hypocrisy in my humble opinion.

Hey you do a great Job no one can question that - each to their own as most of us have done something good for a particular scene. In my case its Football in your case its music.

Steve,

There's others more qualified than me on this on this forum but I think as long as you are within exceptions to the copywrite owners rights over the material, which allow you to make a copy for insurance against the permanent loss or irrevokable damage of the originaly purchased item, AND you pay the relevant PPL licensing you can play it in public which it different from broadcasting.

Afterall if you copied an MP3 you had downloaded then copied it so you had a stored copy should your hard drive decide to pack up. The law isn't concerned if its the original MP3 or the copy you play (it couldn't tell the difference which is why the law was framed not to discriminate between the two) only that the copywrite owners rights are recognised. So having that rare item at home and playing a carver is 'legitimate' in the eyes of the law if not the ears of some of the soul scene.

Ged

[Ian Dewhirst]

I can't help thinking some of these so-called rules miss the point entirely. Of course it would be lovely to always play originals everytime providing you're fabulously wealthy and don't mind messing your precious originals up on a multitude of decks. As I've said on here many many times before, I would probably not play originals these days, as I wrecked so many of 'em in the 70's, especially the styrene ones. So that's why I went through 3 copies of Morris Chestnut alone and completely f*cked the intro to my Joe Mathews as a result of the decks at the Central. It's seems stupid to me to destroy something you love with repeated plays on different equipment and cannot replace that easily. It was slightly different in the 70's as there weren't that many bootlegs of the top sounds when they were actually big, they were much easier to replace and records weren't worth as much as they are now. I didn't know any better back then but I do now.

But also I think Dave and Ady made some good points earlier. For me, it's never particularly been about the format but more about the taste of a particular DJ. I want to hear GREAT GREAT records not so-so records that may be incredibly rare. Frankly I couldn't give a damn if a mediocre record is rare or not. Why would I? And playing a record that's rare but beat-up is kinda ridiculous in this day and age. Over the last few years I've heard records played out that frankly should have been consigned to the dustbin ages ago. Unplayable in my opinion and certainly unlistenable to me.

Also, and I'll get slated for saying this, but bootlegs have been around since the year dot and they're unlikely to go away anytime soon. I can walk down to Oxford St and find numerous major bootlegs in the biggest store in town right now. How is that possible? You'd think that the majors would nail 'em in a milisecond wouldn't you? But no. The expense and legal costs of trying to enforce copyrights isn't worth the ultimate return, so that's why the bootlegs run unabated. Sad but true. It happens to me all the time - I've seen my albums bootlegged all over the world along with 1000's of major label releases and, yes, of course it pisses me off but what can you do? So when we talk about a record that sold next to nothing in the first place that has a few hundred boots made, it really doesn't make a great deal of difference in the grand scheme of things. Even legal re-issues only make the artist a few bob by the time any royalties might trickle down. James Fountain only got $8 dollars for recording "Seven Day Lover" and that was legit LOL. I wonder how much he made from the Cream reissue? Another $8.......?

If you think this scene is bad, you should hear the complaints about illegal MP3 links from the artists on the House scene! We're talking 1000's of illegal downloads within days of a track's release which has gotta hurt.......

Ian D

[KevH]

Ann Sexton - you've been gone too long..on 77.But should only be played on Impel..?

[Ged Parker]

Ann Sexton - you've been gone too long..on 77.But should only be played on Impel..?

You can call yourself a legitimate DJ if you play either as they are both legal releases.

Most venues wouldn't care.

Most of the OVO venues would be more concerned that you'd played it at all I suspect.

Luckily I have it on Impel anyway

[Modernsoulsucks]

The point about it being a UK release was to give it at least some legitmacy.BITD some of the very first club tunes were played off of Stateside etc......

All Mike has to do (with LJH) is wait 30 years or so for acceptance....

Yes Kev but the reason for that was because at the time they were new to our ears and that was the format they were found on. They weren't some 30+ year old oldie on a re-release label.

I think context is all here. If Mike is doing an oldies night then I see nothing wrong with playing a legitimate UK re-release. If it's an "upfront" or something different" or underplayed night [or whatever the term used to differentiate between the two camps are] then I think it was Russ who pointed out that Mike had loads of good records that would fit the bill a bit better than a re-released LJH.

[KevH]

You can call yourself a legitimate DJ if you play either as they are both legal releases.

Most venues wouldn't care.

Most of the OVO venues would be more concerned that you'd played it at all I suspect.

Luckily I have it on Impel anyway

[NEV]

Ann Sexton - you've been gone too long..on 77.But should only be played on Impel..?

Local release ...national release, opposed to the later reissue on the multi coloured SS7 .

For me the point of 1st label is going off on a tangent regarding what is legit to play out ??

If the artist was current and released the record ,be it on a smaller local label or a 2nd released label a yr later to try to make a chart hit ,then it's fine .

Somebody re-issueing the record to supply the demands of "northern soul" scene 10 -20 or 30 yrs later is not the same is it.?

I remember hearing a discussion regarding legitimate 2nd issue of FOUR VOICES on the Gold Voice copy ,where it was said that the band actually released the record themselves a few yrs later, in an attempt to make it a hit in the charts ??if this is the case ,then there could be a case for exception to the rule ??

But then someone decided to make re-issues of the gold copy a few yrs back just to confuse things even more ..lol

p.s

I heard Joe Valentine gave his blessing for the later release of his big record and is supposed to have recieved percentage of sales ?? but does that make it a legit copy to play out ??? not in my book but i don't make the rules up..just my humble opinion:)

[KevH]

Maybe we should rename it OVO1 and OVO2..

[Guest]

Maybe we should rename it OVO1 and OVO2..

perhaps some events need to rethink their flyers as well stating:

Playing off OVO (but with a lot of grey area in between)

[Sebastian]

I remember hearing a discussion regarding legitimate 2nd issue of FOUR VOICES on the Gold Voice copy ,where it was said that the band actually released the record themselves a few yrs later, in an attempt to make it a hit in the charts ??if this is the case ,then there could be a case for exception to the rule ??

Those gold labeled Four Voices 45s were pressed in the 90's (or mid-80's at the very earliest).

[Ged Parker]

perhaps some events need to rethink their flyers as well stating:

Playing off OVO (but with a lot of grey area in between)

Original is original and OVO is the top of the particular heirarchy I set out so as there is nothing above it there can't be any thing in between it and anything else.

If you don't get it by now no one is going to be able to tell you.

[NEV]

Those gold labeled Four Voices 45s were pressed in the 90's (or mid-80's at the very earliest).

Hi Sebastian

Nearly sure it was 80's? but like i said originally i heard a discussion ,not saying it's totally true ,but trying to throw something into the melting pot ,so to speak.

Myself for what it's worth ......green copy or no copy ..anything else is just a cop out...but once again ,each to their own .

The truth is ..it is and should always be a personal thing when it comes to collecting records.

Like i said in a previous post ......it's upto a promotor to make the rules for his/her venue as much as it's upto the punter to decide what type of venue to attend .

At the end of the day ...there is no law for or against ,it's a policy that some people stick to and others don't .

EIther way we will never resolve the matter ,nor will it ever go away .....if people respect each other and don't cross the line by trying to play non original at o.v.o venues then we'll all get along fine:wicked:

[Guest]

Hi Sebastian

Nearly sure it was 80's? but like i said originally i heard a discussion ,not saying it's totally true ,but trying to throw something into the melting pot ,so to speak.

Myself for what it's worth ......green copy or no copy ..anything else is just a cop out...but once again ,each to their own .

The truth is ..it is and should always be a personal thing when it comes to collecting records.

Like i said in a previous post ......it's upto a promotor to make the rules for his/her venue as much as it's upto the punter to decide what type of venue to attend .

At the end of the day ...there is no law for or against ,it's a policy that some people stick to and others don't .

EIther way we will never resolve the matter ,nor will it ever go away .....if people respect each other and don't cross the line by trying to play non original at o.v.o venues then we'll all get along fine

but that may just happen if the flyers advertise OVO but the policy for the dj's is they can play 1st UK issues (such as kent for example)

And if this were to happen it could go unchallenged and be construed as the 'in crowd' making their own rules, or not wanting to ruffle feathers, in case they are not invited to dj at these events - should these events even exist

good grief ....... i promised myself not to get drawn into this crap ...... all i wanted to know was if it was ok to play my legit copy of LJH or not ..... but it seems i will never get an answer because a lot of people think they have written the rule book for every one else to follow and as i said in an earlier post, they change by the minute

hierarchy my arse .... this is the type of thinking that has driven me away from the scene

[KevH]

but that may just happen if the flyers advertise OVO but the policy for the dj's is they can play 1st UK issues (such as kent for example)

And if this were to happen it could go unchallenged and be construed as the 'in crowd' making their own rules, or not wanting to ruffle feathers, in case they are not invited to dj at these events - should these events even exist

good grief ....... i promised myself not to get drawn into this crap ...... all i wanted to know was if it was ok to play my legit copy of LJH or not ..... but it seems i will never get an answer because a lot of people think they have written the rule book for every one else to follow and as i said in an earlier post, they change by the minute

hierarchy my arse .... this is the type of thinking that has driven me away from the scene

,if you've been driven from the scene,then why bother with the question at all.?.Only people who care about ovo are going to post..

[Mrtag]

Mike

its nice to play off all original-something I've always done-but its entirely up to you what you do

#

HOWEVER--if you and I were DJing at the same club/ night and I was following you and LJH was the biggest oldie in the country--

I'd be seriously pissed off if you deprived me of playing the original by playing a 2nd issue

i saw it done recently with Jackie day " Naughty boy" exactly as above.. now thats a serious record to own on original

and not nice to have a £10 boot played 15 mins before you come on

Rob

PLAY THE ORIGINAL ANYWAY AND TELL THEM THIS IS WHAT A ONE A REAL ONE SOUNDS LIKE!!!

[Guest]

,if you've been driven from the scene,then why bother with the question at all.?.Only people who care about ovo are going to post..

i beg to differ

if you read through the thread you will see various opinions on what is ovo and what is not. some, (unbelievably) believe carvers to fall into the category of ovo (cant remember, but i dont think that got challenged which would suggest acceptable)

others believe the legit LJH to be acceptable - others do not

someone from one of the top events in the country has expressed an opinion that it is ok to play UK 1st release and given reasons why it is acceptable (i would guess that admission to this will not effect attendance levels in any way what-so-ever)

there are events/promotors that say they are ovo and have expressed opinions on open forums that unless it is the 1st release on a label it cannot be played - even if it was released again on the same US label as a B side it cannot be played out (and i'm not talking about given a second release for NS scene) ...... yet they allow 'known' dj's to play second release OR EVEN 1st release UK copies made for the NS scene

there is one guy who starts f'ing & jeffin about boots which had nothing to do with the original question - and is full of opinions that he has drawn up as a type 'rule book' on another forum (apparently)

it was a freekin legit test press i enquired about and i have stupidly got myself into 3 pages of politics that has no defining answer - The Strange World Of Northern Soul indeed

i have a real passion for the music and used to love to travel and dance and be with like minded people. i have collected soul records for over 30 years and still do today...... i love playing my records at home and 'out' once in a while ...... fantastic to hear them loud over a system and even more fantastic to see others enjoying them. its the type of thinking that suggests there is a hierarchy of people who think they can dictate what is acceptable to the scene and what is not that keeps me from attending more events than i do.

I left another forum as a staff member because i kept getting pm's about boots, for no apparent reason - despite the fact that i have some nice orig records in my collection (may not be everyones cup of tea or the latest in-damand monsters but nice records all the same imo)

here's something to ponder...... Stars & Stripes (Yate) - if anyone thinks that it was all orig that was played there they are sadly mistaken. One of the best nighters of the late seventies - early eighties playing boots!!!!!! i bought lots of records off one of the guys who DJ'd there and more than 50% were boots

[Guest Brian Ellis]

i beg to differ

if you read through the thread you will see various opinions on what is ovo and what is not. some, (unbelievably) believe carvers to fall into the category of ovo (cant remember, but i dont think that got challenged which would suggest acceptable)

others believe the legit LJH to be acceptable - others do not

someone from one of the top events in the country has expressed an opinion that it is ok to play UK 1st release and given reasons why it is acceptable (i would guess that admission to this will not effect attendance levels in any way what-so-ever)

there are events/promotors that say they are ovo and have expressed opinions on open forums that unless it is the 1st release on a label it cannot be played - even if it was released again on the same US label as a B side it cannot be played out (and i'm not talking about given a second release for NS scene) ...... yet they allow 'known' dj's to play second release OR EVEN 1st release UK copies made for the NS scene

there is one guy who starts f'ing & jeffin about boots which had nothing to do with the original question - and is full of opinions that he has drawn up as a type 'rule book' on another forum (apparently)

it was a freekin legit test press i enquired about and i have stupidly got myself into 3 pages of politics that has no defining answer - The Strange World Of Northern Soul indeed

i have a real passion for the music and used to love to travel and dance and be with like minded people. i have collected soul records for over 30 years and still do today...... i love playing my records at home and 'out' once in a while ...... fantastic to hear them loud over a system and even more fantastic to see others enjoying them. its the type of thinking that suggests there is a hierarchy of people who think they can dictate what is acceptable to the scene and what is not that keeps me from attending more events than i do.

I left another forum as a staff member because i kept getting pm's about boots, for no apparent reason - despite the fact that i have some nice orig records in my collection (may not be everyones cup of tea or the latest in-damand monsters but nice records all the same imo)

here's something to ponder...... Stars & Stripes (Yate) - if anyone thinks that it was all orig that was played there they are sadly mistaken. One of the best nighters of the late seventies - early eighties playing boots!!!!!! i bought lots of records off one of the guys who DJ'd there and more than 50% were boots

Kinell mate. Just play the bloody thing - it'll be done and dusted in under 3 minutes and we can all be spared the ad nauseam of contradictory opinion which takes us round the same circle yet again, and getting absolutely nowhere.

Permission is always more difficult to receive than forgiveness ,,,,, so be true to yourself and go where your personal pride and values take you.

[Guest smudgesmith]

Just read 3 pages of discussion and now Im f@@ed, Anybody want to buy a reissue of Al Williams on Palmer:rolleyes:

[funkyfeet]

So whats an Original then???????????????

Acetate

Test Press

Demo

First Press

2nd Press (which could have been a matter of weeks later as the first run sold out

3rd press

4th press etc

Uk 1st press etc

European (Name your country) 1st press

Any other country 1st Press

And just to through a spanner in the works, if the original was a US LP track but came out on 45 in some other country.

Also do we really know if the 45 came before the LP or was it the other way around

More spanners

None US original but got a US release

Did the local issue always come before the National or was it the other way around in some cases.

How do we know it came out first in the US, who's to say the Canadian, Mexican etc didn't beat it by a few weeks due to some hold up in the USA.

Come to think about it what about West / East coast did one come out before the other, do we really know?

If it's rare soul should it be the more expensive copy.

By default most US Originals are more expensive than others but what about the exceptions

Darrel Banks on Uk London as an example

Surely the correct way is to know who you are DJing with and don't piss on their spot with an inappropriate copy.

[Guest Brian Ellis]

So whats an Original then???????????????

Acetate

Test Press

Demo

First Press

2nd Press (which could have been a matter of weeks later as the first run sold out

3rd press

4th press etc

Uk 1st press etc

European (Name your country) 1st press

Any other country 1st Press

And just to through a spanner in the works, if the original was a US LP track but came out on 45 in some other country.

Also do we really know if the 45 came before the LP or was it the other way around

More spanners

None US original but got a US release

Did the local issue always come before the National or was it the other way around in some cases.

How do we know it came out first in the US, who's to say the Canadian, Mexican etc didn't beat it by a few weeks due to some hold up in the USA.

Come to think about it what about West / East coast did one come out before the other, do we really know?

If it's rare soul should it be the more expensive copy.

By default most US Originals are more expensive than others but what about the exceptions

Darrel Banks on Uk London as an example

Surely the correct way is to know who you are DJing with and don't piss on their spot with an inappropriate copy.

Exactly Mark.

How the OP thought he could ever receive a 'blessing' by asking such a daft question like this.....it's like poking a stick in a wasps' nest

[Guest]

Exactly Mark.

How the OP thought he could ever receive a 'blessing' by asking such a daft question like this.....it's like poking a stick in a wasps' nest

and my guess would be it is people like you who accuse people of asking 'daft' questions that prevents an awful lot of people posting and asking questions - because they could come under riddicule from the likes of yourself and posts like the above

thank you for your expert opinion

[Guest Brian Ellis]

and my guess would be it is people like you who accuse people of asking 'daft' questions that prevents an awful lot of people posting and asking questions - because they could come under riddicule from the likes of yourself and posts like the above

thank you for your expert opinion

You've been on SS long enough to have known from the outset that you would get no conclusive answer and this would just stir up a raft of the same old contradictory opinion, as I said earlier, going around in the ever decreasing circles we've gone around for years. We're now on page 3 with almost 3,000 views and 133 posts....and climbing...and things have become more confused than ever. My intention was never to riddicule. However -

Why are you asking for permission in the first place?

Why do you think you need permission?

And from whom?

At what point in the debate would you feel you have received sufficient consent (or otherwise) to allow you (or not) to play the record?

Would one person's opinion carry greater authority than that of another? For example would the higher profile SSers opinion carry more weight than that of the 'lesser knowns'?

Perhaps setting your original question in these contexts might have stimulated a level of debate that would take us on a different and more interesting path than the same old, same old, veering rapidly off topic with boots, pressings, Ipods, CD,s iTunes completely muddying the water,

Again, as I said, ultimately it's down to personal pride and values...but if in doubt, just leave it out. Sure you've got plenty to fill the 3 minute gap in your spot?

Brian

Edited July 28, 2010 by Brian Ellis

[Guest Matt Male]

all i wanted to know was if it was ok to play my legit copy of LJH or not .....

No you didn't Mike, you knew this would be a wind up thread and that's why you've kept it going.

Like Brian says 3 pages and almost 3000 views, and your question (that I suspect you already knew the answer too) was answered almost straight away. You knew exactly what you were doing.

Edited July 29, 2010 by Matt Male

[Guest]

No you didn't Mike, you knew this would be a wind up thread and that's why you've kept it going.

Like Brian says 3 pages and almost 3000 views, and your question (that I suspect you already knew the answer too) was answered almost straight away. You knew exactly what you were doing.

i find that an extremely arrogant statement.

i ask a genuine question and start to get shit for it ........ how dare you, who the hell do you think you are telling me what my intentions are...... you've done this 'mind reading' game with me before and have now been completely wrong both times

if you aint got anything consructive to say, wind ya neck in

Edited July 29, 2010 by mikecook

[Pete S]

You've been on SS long enough to have known from the outset that you would get no conclusive answer and this would just stir up a raft of the same old contradictory opinion, as I said earlier, going around in the ever decreasing circles we've gone around for years. We're now on page 3 with almost 3,000 views and 133 posts....and climbing...and things have become more confused than ever. My intention was never to riddicule. However -

Why are you asking for permission in the first place?

Why do you think you need permission?

And from whom?

At what point in the debate would you feel you have received sufficient consent (or otherwise) to allow you (or not) to play the record?

Would one person's opinion carry greater authority than that of another? For example would the higher profile SSers opinion carry more weight than that of the 'lesser knowns'?

Perhaps setting your original question in these contexts might have stimulated a level of debate that would take us on a different and more interesting path than the same old, same old, veering rapidly off topic with boots, pressings, Ipods, CD,s iTunes completely muddying the water,

Again, as I said, ultimately it's down to personal pride and values...but if in doubt, just leave it out. Sure you've got plenty to fill the 3 minute gap in your spot?

Brian

Exactly what I said on about the second post in this topic.

Fancy having to get consent to play a record.

[Ernie Andrews]

So whats an Original then???????????????

Acetate

Test Press

Demo

First Press

2nd Press (which could have been a matter of weeks later as the first run sold out

3rd press

4th press etc

Uk 1st press etc

European (Name your country) 1st press

Any other country 1st Press

And just to through a spanner in the works, if the original was a US LP track but came out on 45 in some other country.

Also do we really know if the 45 came before the LP or was it the other way around

More spanners

None US original but got a US release

Did the local issue always come before the National or was it the other way around in some cases.

How do we know it came out first in the US, who's to say the Canadian, Mexican etc didn't beat it by a few weeks due to some hold up in the USA.

Come to think about it what about West / East coast did one come out before the other, do we really know?

If it's rare soul should it be the more expensive copy.

By default most US Originals are more expensive than others but what about the exceptions

Darrel Banks on Uk London as an example

Surely the correct way is to know who you are DJing with and don't piss on their spot with an inappropriate copy.

Its the very last line as to why I am so passionate about what is right and what is wrong in my opinion and it appears a few others are similar minded!

The site I tried to list a definative on has changed and I cant find any archive so Ill have to try to get the website owner to send me a copy.

I did it as a potential guide and asked for opinion. I got very little response if I remember rightly.

Everyone apppreciates its unwritten rules as to what is accpetable to play. Its the people who make a mockery of this "Code of Ethics" if thats what you want to call it.

One record (london reissue) that was played at the wrong time* caused the start of the biggest destruction in a happy scene in Aberdeen and friendships were lost because of not following the "Code of Ethics" and the arguments just spiralled.

* Wife of Local Dj bought him an original Cameo Parkway Yvonne baker (YDSAW) for his birthday which was on the same night (or same week) as the soul night. Obviously with pride he was talking about it to the other Djs.

Another DJ who was scheduled to go on just before him plays the London reissue copy knowing Full well that the Birthday boy was going to play it.

Their are grey areas and Im giving Mike Cook the benefit of the doubt here as no definitive "Code" has ever been established and maybe an opportunity for a number of Polls might help the situation just as price guides help.

Please slap me down but I think any changes for the better is called evolution!

Edited July 29, 2010 by Ernie Andrews

[Ian Dewhirst]

there is one guy who starts f'ing & jeffin about boots which had nothing to do with the original question - and is full of opinions that he has drawn up as a type 'rule book' on another forum (apparently)

LOL, that sounds like me. Sorry to have meandered off-topic but I have no idea what a type 'rule book' is and, if it is me you're referring to, then I'm curious as to which other forum and what topic you're referring to 'cos I'm not aware of any.

And yes, of course you can play the bloody record in most places I would have thought! I personally wouldn't play at any venue that dictated what I can and can't play.

Ian D

Edited July 29, 2010 by Ian Dewhirst

[Guest soul elite]

The problem I've got with this topic is not whether Mike plays his Johnny Hamilton 45 or not, but that he has to seek some sort of permission to do so from a bunch of f*ckwits on an internet site who think they make up all the rules.

I was wondering why too?? Haha

[Ernie Andrews]

LOL, that sounds like me. Sorry to have meandered off-topic but I have no idea what a type 'rule book' is and, if it is me you're referring to, then I'm curious as to which other forum and what topic you're referring to 'cos I'm not aware of any.

And yes, of course you can play the bloody record in most places I would have thought! I personally wouldn't play at any venue that dictated what I can and can't play.

Ian D

It was me Ian- Their was or still is in another format a soul site called " The Northern soul forum"

It was a local site to Aberdeen/ Scotland and was designed by aguy who collects web domains like we collect records. One of the clubs in Aberdeen thought it was exclusively their forum but were soon told it wasnt . The local feud was raging on this site and it spilled over to here if you look at the threads on the Aberdeen Allnighter - It got very nasty on the other site including threats of violence.

This whole question of Whats acceptable or not became a terrible ongoing local feud of which I was partly to blame along with others.

Some one asked for a definative so I did a what might be considered a code of Ethics / guidance/rule book whatever people wanted to class it as and asked for opinions. I got few replies which didnt surprise me seeing I was using this to fuel the long standing debate or feud between myself and some others around the OVO debate.

That site has now changed and Id have to re-register and contact the Administrator to see if it could be archived as it took me a good 7 days to come up with it.

Hope that explains

ATb Steve

[KevH]

Gil Blanding said "Rules...its a trick"... .He might be onto something there.

[Ian Dewhirst]

It was me Ian- Their was or still is in another format a soul site called " The Northern soul forum"

It was a local site to Aberdeen/ Scotland and was designed by aguy who collects web domains like we collect records. One of the clubs in Aberdeen thought it was exclusively their forum but were soon told it wasnt . The local feud was raging on this site and it spilled over to here if you look at the threads on the Aberdeen Allnighter - It got very nasty on the other site including threats of violence.

This whole question of Whats acceptable or not became a terrible ongoing local feud of which I was partly to blame along with others.

Some one asked for a definative so I did a what might be considered a code of Ethics / guidance/rule book whatever people wanted to class it as and asked for opinions. I got few replies which didnt surprise me seeing I was using this to fuel the long standing debate or feud between myself and some others around the OVO debate.

That site has now changed and Id have to re-register and contact the Administrator to see if it could be archived as it took me a good 7 days to come up with it.

Hope that explains

ATb Steve

Yep, Mike just let me know. I'm waaaay too sensitive LOL...

Well, I deffo wanna read the ethics/rules then when you can get hold of 'em Steve. That should keep things pumping along nicely!

Ian D

[Philt]

I can't believe I'm writing this and getting embroiled, lifes too short but I guess it shows that I have stronger feelings about it than maybe I thought I had for some reason ... ...

that's the bit that fascinates me actually, where the strength of feeling comes from? Is it underpinend by some mythical 'code' that you were brought up with which was underpinned by who you knocked around with, which clubs you went to, how elitist you are, how much money you've got etc etc? Me, I think it's all tied in with the other (done to death) threads around too many DJs, venues etc etc.

As a kid starting to buy records I can remember being daunted by even looking in some people's boxes for fear of exposing myself as an idiot who knew nothing (which I was). I certainly harboured no thoughts / dreams / pretensions about every dj-ing anywhere cos the lads who did that, and there were only a few of em, had been at it for donkeys, knew about things like producers, matrices, stamps etc etc and, more importantly, had earned the right to play out to paying punters because of the depth of their knowledge, commitment and collections. That was just how I thought and was taught to see things, very heirarchical and to some minds elitist you might say.

Healthy? Encouraging? Dunno but I'm still at it 30 years on so didn't discourage me. In fact, it instilled in me a kind of pride in the elitism and hierarchies within the scene and made clear that it is more than a hobby or a social thing - to me anyway. Gaz Kellet said two things to me which made me laugh at the time but, on reflection, prove yet again that lads like him were ahead of the game and had it right (IMHO of course):

- You can hear the Magnetics in Tesco, it's all fooked

- They used to look down their noses at me as if to say f*ck off and buy your gear and I respected em for it

So, IMHO (which is worth jacksh*t of course), if it's a first issue, you've got the original acetate, LP etc good on yer. If it's a different cut, unissued etc good on yer for rooting it out and bringing it to a wider audience. If it's owt else I wouldn't play it and I wouldn't knowingly attend a venue where a promoter or 'dj' would knowingly play it after I'd travelled and paid to get in. I have a room full of CDs and boxes full of tapes which contain pretty much everything I want record wise. Going out and hearing someone play the real mccoy is different gravy though. Don't put feckin lumps in it

atb

Phil

ps. I still know nothing, am not a dj and never will be!

[Ezzie Brown]

Don't be ridiculous where on earth did anyone say it's OK to play boots?

If I play a new Kent release I'll say it's on Kent and that it's now available in the shops, go out and buy it and support the people who made the music in the first place. I'm sure there are a lot of DJs on here who would do the same.

ok....boots and re issues are differant,my mistake to put them together, and yes we should support the people who made the music, and yourselves doing the work over here, ..........my issue is with people playing a rare tune in a spot , not on first issue and pretending it is,....just decieving themselves more than anything................. regards ezzie

[Ezzie Brown]

I can't believe I'm writing this and getting embroiled, lifes too short but I guess it shows that I have stronger feelings about it than maybe I thought I had for some reason ... ...

that's the bit that fascinates me actually, where the strength of feeling comes from? Is it underpinend by some mythical 'code' that you were brought up with which was underpinned by who you knocked around with, which clubs you went to, how elitist you are, how much money you've got etc etc? Me, I think it's all tied in with the other (done to death) threads around too many DJs, venues etc etc.

As a kid starting to buy records I can remember being daunted by even looking in some people's boxes for fear of exposing myself as an idiot who knew nothing (which I was). I certainly harboured no thoughts / dreams / pretensions about every dj-ing anywhere cos the lads who did that, and there were only a few of em, had been at it for donkeys, knew about things like producers, matrices, stamps etc etc and, more importantly, had earned the right to play out to paying punters because of the depth of their knowledge, commitment and collections. That was just how I thought and was taught to see things, very heirarchical and to some minds elitist you might say.

Healthy? Encouraging? Dunno but I'm still at it 30 years on so didn't discourage me. In fact, it instilled in me a kind of pride in the elitism and hierarchies within the scene and made clear that it is more than a hobby or a social thing - to me anyway. Gaz Kellet said two things to me which made me laugh at the time but, on reflection, prove yet again that lads like him were ahead of the game and had it right (IMHO of course):

- You can hear the Magnetics in Tesco, it's all fooked

- They used to look down their noses at me as if to say f*ck off and buy your gear and I respected em for it

So, IMHO (which is worth jacksh*t of course), if it's a first issue, you've got the original acetate, LP etc good on yer. If it's a different cut, unissued etc good on yer for rooting it out and bringing it to a wider audience. If it's owt else I wouldn't play it and I wouldn't knowingly attend a venue where a promoter or 'dj' would knowingly play it after I'd travelled and paid to get in. I have a room full of CDs and boxes full of tapes which contain pretty much everything I want record wise. Going out and hearing someone play the real mccoy is different gravy though. Don't put feckin lumps in it

atb

Phil

ps. I still know nothing, am not a dj and never will be!

hi phil, everytime we have a thread on here about this sort of thing, well,anything really . i notice i always agree with the same folk , ussually committed long time collectors and attendees of the same kind of venues as myself, in spirit anyway.............how many times has someone on here said ."they just dont get it ???? ................an they never will !!!!! ..........ezzie.......

[nickp]

I would love to see the response or lack of on the dancefloor if you ever get a chance to play the track !

Perhaps a promoter should give you a spot and bring the saga to a close ?

Nick.

[Ged Parker]

i promised myself not to get drawn into this crap

Remind me agian who started this f**king thread?

[Guest BIG H]

Right here my tuppence worth...............

1- if its a proper reissue with the artists gettin there dues then no problem in playing it,

2- if the track is a discovery of another dj and he has spent time braking / reactivated the tune and your on the same line up, dont play it

3- (and this is what i thinks most important) WHY would a dj play something thats so popular that its been reissued booted or whatever anyway, would it not be better to find something of you own and make it YOUR tune? theres MILLIONS of US originals out there you can choose from without having play the same old tried and tested tunes and im afraid still playing LJH shows a wee bit of a lack of imagination imho

just a thought

Harry