Promoters

[Chalky]

An all niter promoters topic with all the all niter promoters/ djs taking part, now that would be something that many many punters would like to see....

at the behest of Little Stevie here's a topic for and about promoters and their promotions. Please refrain from the usual have a go at the usual suspects. This is meant to be a serious look at gettinng promoters heads together for the good of the scene. Think it is agreed that it can't carry on the way it is with an ever decreasing number of paying customers and few if any youngsters to take their places.

There's too much clashing, too many nights (too many close together), promoters promoting for the sake of running a venue and maybe getting the chance to DJ?

So lets get things out in the open, don't be shy have your say, punters too, but like I said keep it sensible

[Russ Vickers]

at the behest of Little Stevie here's a topic for and about promoters and their promotions. Please refrain from the usual have a go at the usual suspects. This is meant to be a serious look at gettinng promoters heads together for the good of the scene. Think it is agreed that it can't carry on the way it is with an ever decreasing number of paying customers and few if any youngsters to take their places.

There's too much clashing, too many nights (too many close together), promoters promoting for the sake of running a venue and maybe getting the chance to DJ?

So lets get things out in the open, don't be shy have your say, punters too, but like I said keep it sensible

In my opinion if there is an established event you dont clash end of story. When I promoted the Newbury Allnighters way back & admittedly in a not so busy a time for Allnighters etc, I refused to clash with any other Nighter in the country & at times that was very difficult i can tell ya even then, I had people who were close to me who could not understand why I point blank refused to do this, there were times when other promoters put things on on the same night as me, but I didnt clash personally, for me anyway it was more out of respect than anything else.....................

I'll be perfectly honest, for a long time I have wanted to get my promoters 'hat' back on (at the present would be difficult due to other circumstances), but have held back, purely due to the sheer volume of events, not just in my area, but all over the country, I'm raring to go & believe I could really add something to the current mix that would enhance the scene, but I'm in this for the long haul & will bide my time until the climate is right again. Cant understand the attitude of some people who just dont think or care before booking dates.

Russ

Edited July 20, 2010 by Russ Vickers

[KevH]

In my opinion if there is an established event you dont clash end of story.

Russ

I agree Russ.The question is..what counts as established?.

If the split between rare and oldies is as we are led to beleive,could this be the reason so may venues clash.One not even being aware of the other.?

Weekenders - a chance to take the missus/better half.Nothing wrong with that.Apart from some may have to decline a nighter the week after on the ground of being broke or knackered ,or getting a bad home.

On a more personal note,,at The Attic we took a look, as rookie promoters,last year at the state of things.Numbers stabilising,venues that we as punters could not get to etc....took a chance and bit the bullet.Went bi-monthly.Numbers?? - same if not lower.

Outcome? - maybe should have stayed monthly - or shut down!!!.

Maybe trying to do something for us AND the good of the scene hasn't worked .How many others have tried this.?

In the end it won't matter.Bit of honesty......Kev.

[Russ Vickers]

I agree Russ.The question is..what counts as established?.

If the split between rare and oldies is as we are led to beleive,could this be the reason so may venues clash.One not even being aware of the other.?

Weekenders - a chance to take the missus/better half.Nothing wrong with that.Apart from some may have to decline a nighter the week after on the ground of being broke or knackered ,or getting a bad home.

On a more personal note,,at The Attic we took a look, as rookie promoters,last year at the state of things.Numbers stabilising,venues that we as punters could not get to etc....took a chance and bit the bullet.Went bi-monthly.Numbers?? - same if not lower.

Outcome? - maybe should have stayed monthly - or shut down!!!.

Maybe trying to do something for us AND the good of the scene hasn't worked .How many others have tried this.?

In the end it won't matter.Bit of honesty......Kev.

If a promoter has booked up dates (some times up to a year) in advance & advertised them & made other promoters aware of the dates, then IMHO those dates should be sacred. Thing is if another promoter books the same night what can you do in all honesty ???.

Russ

Edited July 20, 2010 by Russ Vickers

[KevH]

If a promoter has booked up dates (some times up to a year) in advance & advertised them & made other promoters aware of the dates, then IMHO those dates should be sacred.

Russ

Ok.What about exclusion zones?.How far we talking.? Genres make a difference?

Edited July 20, 2010 by KevH

[Epic]

Best will in the world there is a max of 52 Fridays & Saturdays a year ie 104 dates that realistically people will attend. Take out 8/10 Weekenders & you are now down to just over 80 dates. Not a lot is it ? & I haven't even put All Nighters in the mix.

[Munchkin]

at the behest of Little Stevie here's a topic for and about promoters and their promotions. Please refrain from the usual have a go at the usual suspects. This is meant to be a serious look at gettinng promoters heads together for the good of the scene. Think it is agreed that it can't carry on the way it is with an ever decreasing number of paying customers and few if any youngsters to take their places.

There's too much clashing, too many nights (too many close together), promoters promoting for the sake of running a venue and maybe getting the chance to DJ?

So lets get things out in the open, don't be shy have your say, punters too, but like I said keep it sensible

Totally agree with you on this chalky, We are giving United Sound of Soul, a break for a few months, due to clashing + falling numbers, on average we get 100/120 which i dont think is too bad for a rare soul nite, but the last nite we were down to about 75... Numbers is not a major problem to us but then the owner moans about their bar take being down... then theres...in the past emailing fellow promoters to give dates for following year and their dates are changed twice to clash, We had to change back and forth so not to clash on our part, sometimes you wonder if its done on purpose... At our next date in november, we will decide wether or not to continue with USOS, my feeling at the moment is not to continue... Weve been running usos for over 3 yrs now, and i know we moved area and venue a few times.... in all that time martyn and myself havent dj`d at our own event more than an handful of times.(theres a lot better djs/collectors out there than me). its not what were about...

It would be great to get together with like minded promoters and sort this all out... think the bi monthly thing is a good idea and makes it easier to promote properly...

other things that get to me are

ill come to your do if you come to mine... not on really... i want to go were i want to

if i give you a spot can i dj at your do... you should get spots on your merit/tunes not coz you run a do....

i remember back in the eighties they aranged a number 1`s meeting for scooter clubs to sort out following yrs run/events

[Rugby Soul Club]

I seem to have written this on a few other threads but as it's been put on one forum, I suppose I should write it again.

The Benn hall is a popular venue in Rugby and to get the same dates every year, we have to book up to 7 years in advance...

And we still get people offering us money to use the Benn for their wedding etc.

I do put up the dates on here and on the web site.

And as Chalky says, a lot of us do talk. I can give out my dates to anyone who wants them...

But because of this, it does make it hard for us to be flexible for the soul scene.

I have even had apologies from other promoters who clashed with us because of not being able to get any other date.

It is a free world and no one has the given right to demand that their date is theirs and no one elses but I've got to admit, it does effect numbers and it would be a perfect world if there were no clashes.

Another point, I know the all-niter crowd like them to start and finish later but as we started as a soul nite and still get support from a lot of those who don't wish to stay all-nite, we decided to run from 8pm and offer those who came in the first hour, a discount.

We have no choice in the finish time as that is as late as the management will allow.

I'm not sure that this thread will help in anyway but I suppose it's a good way of putting your own point across...

[Rob Wigley]

Sorry double posted

Edited July 20, 2010 by Karen and Rob Wigley

[Rob Wigley]

In my opinion if there is an established event you dont clash end of story. When I promoted the Newbury Allnighters way back & admittedly in a not so busy a time for Allnighters etc, I refused to clash with any other Nighter in the country & at times that was very difficult i can tell ya even then, I had people who were close to me who could not understand why I point blank refused to do this, there were times when other promoters put things on on the same night as me, but I didnt clash personally, for me anyway it was more out of respect than anything else.....................

I'll be perfectly honest, for a long time I have wanted to get my promoters 'hat' back on (at the present would be difficult due to other circumstances), but have held back, purely due to the sheer volume of events, not just in my area, but all over the country, I'm raring to go & believe I could really add something to the current mix that would enhance the scene, but I'm in this for the long haul & will bide my time until the climate is right again. Cant understand the attitude of some people who just dont think or care before booking dates.

Russ

Aye them were the days Russ..800 people out and about except for big do's like Keele or artists coming over....the odd soul night here and there and weekends with NOTHING ON...I kid you not...

People will go where they want to go...end of.

Somewhere popular numbers wise MUST be doing something right..its down to Venue, DJs, Music policy admission price and if your mates are going for the social...get it right and you'll be packed out--but don't let too many in thats just as bad as low numbers.

What promoters are offering is ENTERTAINMENT --6 people sat in a venue looking miserable isn't my idea of entertainment--no matter how good the music is.

So now we must have 5,000-6,000 + out EVERY weekend in the UK -its a lot of people wanting Soul music-

as ive said many times on SS you pays your money and you makes your choice

no easy answer till Hell freezes over and the scene slips back underground.....

Rob

What makes me go to a venue ? don't really know, we do a cross section-used to love good modern nights but they turned into something we didn't like--I like records playing (originals) so i can seek them out if i like them I buy them.

[Guest Bearsy]

from a totally non Promoting point of view i see it as, Some care and really dont want to clash with anyone and some dont give a shit who they clash with cos they have their own following anyway so if a night/nighter puts dates up in advance then those that dont care if they clash couldnt give a flying fook and put their night/nighter on anyway, only so many soulies to go around anyway and to me the nighter crowd where i tend to frequent are the litterally the same all over the country, i also think that the Soul Night is the biggest problem for nighters, far too many of them all over the country and you can get a soul fix have a beer get a taxi home have a laugh with mates dj every now and then at them and be able to be of use to family/friends the next day

[Russ Vickers]

from a totally non Promoting point of view i see it as, Some care and really dont want to clash with anyone and some dont give a shit who they clash with cos they have their own following anyway so if a night/nighter puts dates up in advance then those that dont care if they clash couldnt give a flying fook and put their night/nighter on anyway, only so many soulies to go around anyway and to me the nighter crowd where i tend to frequent are the litterally the same all over the country, i also think that the Soul Night is the biggest problem for nighters, far too many of them all over the country and you can get a soul fix have a beer get a taxi home have a laugh with mates dj every now and then at them and be able to be of use to family/friends the next day

Been said before, but not too many moons ago, on the whole the Soul Night was where you went on the way/before the AllNighter, cos so many Nighters have to start earlier these day's cos of the bar take for the venue owners this doesnt happen so much...........I would like to see a later start for Nighters & maybe the local promoters doing a 'Warm Up' for the early birds..........

Russ

[Guest Bearsy]

Been said before, but not too many moons ago, on the whole the Soul Night was where you went on the way/before the AllNighter, cos so many Nighters have to start earlier these day's cos of the bar take for the venue owners this doesnt happen so much...........I would like to see a later start for Nighters & maybe the local promoters doing a 'Warm Up' for the early birds..........

Russ

could this be the answer, a soul night going on until midnight then the Nighter carries on until 8am so the venue gets 2 events and takins on the same night and the Promoters could come together on sound system promoting through flyers togehter etc etc, and if Carlsberg did promoting

[Guest Matt Male]

Genres make a difference?

Type of music makes more of a difference to us than distance. Most of our attendees travel to our night and very few (if any) come from Coventry or Nuneaton. We do feel it though if we are on the same night as an upfront nighter or soul night anywhere in the country.

We booked all our dates for this year in December 2009, right up to December 2010 and Adam and myself tried to make sure we avoided any nights with a similar style as well as obvious big local oldies nights like the coop (not the same but a massive local event like that makes a bit of a difference). We checked Soul Source and used what we already knew to try and avoid other people's dates as much as we could. The only problems we had were other promotors posting dates only a few weeks before an event that they'd probably had planned for months (much too late in my opinion) or people just not bothering to read the events booked on soul source. If i could ask one thing it would be that people do look at the calendar before they start something up, not just locally but also in terms of style of music played.

Because of the attendees we have are mostly nighters goers, and the music we play, nighters are usually our main worry.

Personally i've a had a lot of pleasure promoting in the last 18 months (mainly because of our fantastic guest and resident DJs and friends who support us) and i think we provide a fairly unique event.

Anyone can check our dates up to December on our website btw. Soon we'll be booking up for 2011.

[Chalky]

I agree Russ.The question is..what counts as established?.

If the split between rare and oldies is as we are led to beleive,could this be the reason so may venues clash.One not even being aware of the other.?

Weekenders - a chance to take the missus/better half.Nothing wrong with that.Apart from some may have to decline a nighter the week after on the ground of being broke or knackered ,or getting a bad home.

In the end it won't matter.Bit of honesty......Kev.

What's established? Any night that was there when a new promoter decides to promote a venue. There's room for all-nighters to suit all tastes just as long as a bit of planning and respect /consideration for long established events is given.

[Chalky]

So now we must have 5,000-6,000 + out EVERY weekend in the UK -its a lot of people wanting Soul music-

but 95% of those stay local and don't go to an all-nighter ever. There is probably 400 to go at nighter wise depending on the size of the venue, location etc. Kings Hall the biggest all-nighter but the vast majority there probably do not do all-nighters on a regular basis.

Now with 3-400 what is the point in splitting that crowd? Having two average nights instead of one great night?

[Chalky]

Been said before, but not too many moons ago, on the whole the Soul Night was where you went on the way/before the AllNighter, cos so many Nighters have to start earlier these day's cos of the bar take for the venue owners this doesnt happen so much...........I would like to see a later start for Nighters & maybe the local promoters doing a 'Warm Up' for the early birds..........

Russ

It will never happen though as venue owners are not interested.

I'd love to see a return to the days of old, all your hello's deals etc done at the local soul night, into the nighter and everyone buzzin', dance floor full straight away. No beer either!!!

Nowadays the first 3 DJ's often play to themselves whilst everyone arrives, meets and greets their mates, wait for it to fill up, sink a few pints or wait for the gear to kick in before they have the courage to venture onto the dance floor

[John A]

could this be the answer, a soul night going on until midnight then the Nighter carries on until 8am so the venue gets 2 events and takins on the same night and the Promoters could come together on sound system promoting through flyers togehter etc etc, and if Carlsberg did promoting

This is all ready done Bearsy...at Stewartby, though the nighter bit only till 5 am.. but could be later if people bothered to turn up. Even Bedford soulies cant be arsed! and i'll be honest, cos theres so much on.. low attendances, i'm starting to get sick of the whole thing. Would the last person to leave the soul scene,please turn the power off

[Guest Bearsy]

This is all ready done Bearsy...at Stewartby, though the nighter bit only till 5 am.. but could be later if people bothered to turn up. Even Bedford soulies cant be arsed! and i'll be honest, cos theres so much on.. low attendances, i'm starting to get sick of the whole thing. Would the last person to leave the soul scene,please turn the power off

it could be the start of the way things might have to be to not only keep costs down but to help on travelling times etc etc, i know all about attending events in Bedford ive done a few there over the last few years and 90% are travelling soulies I am slowing down on the amount of Soul Nights and Nighters at the moment cos it just costs a fooking fortune all the way from Southampton and lucky enough to have a couple of decent Soul Nights on the door step (within half hour drive) so not all bad but although they are good nights they aint Nighters if there was less events going on each week and all events went at least Bi-Monthly then i think it would be harder to miss these so maybe attendances would be better, saying that someone would start up a night to fill the void

at times i wish loads of events would close down so what there is left of the Soul Scene would flourish

[Guest gordon russell]

If we are honest (that'll be hard ) most of the smaller venues are there so the promoter of that do can dj,end of!!....if he never put on his venue........they would,nt go out to someone elses......sad fact everyone wants to dj and this is the way they do it.

What needs to happen is for national well respected dj,s who have the tunes TO START SAYING ...NO!! TO EVERY LITTLE TIN POT SOUL EVENT THAT POPS UP.......this is not being eliteist just common sense. some dj,s seem to dj at every venue possible wether or not they are right for that venue....

Alot of venues need to shut ..........they just keep hanging on why? god only knows. Chalkys right,but since when did reason and common sense prevail. peggy b

[TOAD]

Type of music makes more of a difference to us than distance. Most of our attendees travel to our night and very few (if any) come from Coventry or Nuneaton. We do feel it though if we are on the same night as an upfront nighter or soul night anywhere in the country.

We booked all our dates for this year in December 2009, right up to December 2010 and Adam and myself tried to make sure we avoided any nights with a similar style as well as obvious big local oldies nights like the coop (not the same but a massive local event like that makes a bit of a difference). We checked Soul Source and used what we already knew to try and avoid other people's dates as much as we could. The only problems we had were other promotors posting dates only a few weeks before an event that they'd probably had planned for months (much too late in my opinion) or people just not bothering to read the events booked on soul source. If i could ask one thing it would be that people do look at the calendar before they start something up, not just locally but also in terms of style of music played.

Because of the attendees we have are mostly nighters goers, and the music we play, nighters are usually our main worry.

Personally i've a had a lot of pleasure promoting in the last 18 months (mainly because of our fantastic guest and resident DJs and friends who support us) and i think we provide a fairly unique event.

Anyone can check our dates up to December on our website btw. Soon we'll be booking up for 2011.

have you really thought why people from cov and nuneaton dont go ?

[Cunnie]

have you really thought why people from cov and nuneaton dont go ?

I've been & I'm pigeonholed as a Modden fan

[TOAD]

I've been & I'm pigeonholed as a Modden fan

let you off as your not a native lol lol

Got a venue will pm you soon

[Cunnie]

let you off as your not a native lol lol

Got a venue will pm you soon

Got a big sound system :-)))

Folks are gonna think this was planned but it wasn't.

Hurry up with the PM Tim

[Raresoul45s]

i remember back in the eighties they aranged a number 1`s meeting for scooter clubs to sort out following yrs run/events

Thats right Munchkin and they still do it today, maybe thats why the scooter scene is so strong today they communicate with each other and have regular meetings. Not to sure if it could work on the soul scene though.

Cheers Darren

[Guest]

have you really thought why people from cov and nuneaton dont go ?

let you off as your not a native lol lol

Got a venue will pm you soon

Well, I've thought about it and I'm just not sure Tim. Maybe you could help me out with these possible answers as you seem to be so knowledgable:

1. Is it because we only play crap RnB that nobody likes and you can't dance to whilst refusing point blank to play any 70s and later sounds? An opinion that you've presented more than once as your reason for never atending. Yet a look at our playlists shows straight away that we play a fairly even mix of RnB, 60s northern, 70s soul along with 60s and 70s funk.

2. Maybe it's because you, for some reason, have a very strong dislike of me and have told all the 'natives' (which I am not, as I'm a relative newcomer to the Coventry area) that it's not worth even trying us out.

3. Or maybe it's because the 'natives' that have an interest in the lesser played do attend but they are just small in number in comparison to the 'natives' that prefer to attend oldies orientated nights?

Please do feel free to let me know if any of the above are correct or if there is another reason, that I've yet to give consideration to, for the lack of locally based attendees at Move On. I do so value your opinion on these matters.

Adam.

[TOAD]

ADAM its not a personal attack against you or MATT i wish you luck if you can carry it on !

Its a whole heap of thing IMO

IF YOU WANT A STARTER....

ryton isnt in coventry difficult to get there and back even in a taxi...

more later if you really really want some honesty ?

[Steve L]

Here we go, this could be an interesting thread for some people but already you can see where its gonna go:angry2:

This is important for the future of the scene IMO - keep your personal gripes to yourself!!

[Guest]

ADAM its not a personal attack against you or MATT i wish you luck if you can carry it on !

Its a whole heap of thing IMO

IF YOU WANT A STARTER....

ryton isnt in coventry difficult to get there and back even in a taxi...

more later if you really really want some honesty ?

True Ryton isn't in Coventry itself, though I don't think of it as being hard to get to. It's only 5-10mins from the A45/A46/airport.

If you've got more honest opinions Tim then please do pass them onto to me, as I'll always be open to constructive criticism. As Steve L has said though, maybe best if you PM me with them and leave this thread free to carry on as originally intended.

[Munchkin]

i remember back in the eighties they aranged a number 1`s meeting for scooter clubs to sort out following yrs run/events

Thats right Munchkin and they still do it today, maybe thats why the scooter scene is so strong today they communicate with each other and have regular meetings. Not to sure if it could work on the soul scene though.

Cheers Darren

yeh i know was admin sec for LCGB for 15yrs...

[Chalky]

Here we go, this could be an interesting thread for some people but already you can see where its gonna go:angry2:

This is important for the future of the scene IMO - keep your personal gripes to yourself!!

Yep I agree try and leave the personal stuff for another time or use the PM facility. This topic is for the best interests of the scene and not individuals.

[Guest Matt Male]

have you really thought why people from cov and nuneaton dont go ?

Yes i have Tim, and after living in Nuneaton all my life i know exactly why most don't attend Move On and you probably know the reason too.

On the plus side Paul Shaw has been and loved it, Mark Freeman comes when he can, Rob's been once or twice and a few others from Nuneaton have made it over.

For most though from the local area it's just not their cup of tea musically, fair enough. We won't change as we're both happy with the way things are. True we could do with a few more in, but as you and I know there are a lot of people who pay lip service to hearing new and different stuff on this scene, but stick with the safe and comfy zone.

Hope you can make it some time Tim. You would have enjoyed Paul's funk spot last Friday.

All the best.

Matt

[TOAD]

Yes i have Tim, and after living in Nuneaton all my life i know exactly why most don't attend Move On and you probably know the reason too.

On the plus side Paul Shaw has been and loved it, Mark Freeman comes when he can, Rob's been once or twice and a few others from Nuneaton have made it over.

For most though from the local area it's just not their cup of tea musically, fair enough. We won't change as we're both happy with the way things are. True we could do with a few more in, but as you and I know there are a lot of people who pay lip service to hearing new and different stuff on this scene, but stick with the safe and comfy zone.

Hope you can make it some time Tim. You would have enjoyed Paul's funk spot last Friday.

All the best.

Matt

A REAL SHAME ISNT IT MATT !

best

tim

[barney]

yes in a perfect world it would be great if all promoters got together and agreed to cooperate on events ,

unfortunately this is never going to be happen , this is a story of biblical proportions and ever since the first soul night ,people have fallen out and gone there own way , throughout the history of the soul scene there have been schisms and this has led to different factions doing there own thing despite what is going on elsewhere within the scene.

its obvious that some promoters are feeling the pinch and state the reason for this is too many events ,dates clashing etc.

maybe they should take a hard look at themselves and their event and do some assesments,

is what they are offering what the punters want

is the venue fit for purpose

is the sound system up to scratch

is the door tariff fair

are the bar prices reasonable , and is the bar offering what the punters want

is the location right

is the dj line up ok

could go on , but at the end of the day we are where we are now and we cant wind the clock back.

there are too many opposing factions and too much bad blood and a lot at stake especially for the promoters for which this is their livelyhood.

so lets not wish for utopia , the punters of which I am one will vote with their feet and choose as they wish and for me more events means more choice its a buyers market in todays world whether we like it or not

[Agentsmith]

this is a familiar thread.....its not the 70's....when you accepted who the dj's were and who the promotors were because thats how the scene was....its not the 80's...when the scene fragmented in the wake of wigan's demise and whole swathes of people drifted away to adulthood and marriage and the up and coming dj's just about kept things going at smaller, thinly spread venues....its not the 90's,...the renaissence decade when many finally returned to the scene with renewed vigour as punters looking for a good time and long lost memories, and as a result more venues started up to cope with the demand....no....its the new millenium and the last ten years have been about long serving punters who also had the record collections stored away, deciding they wanted to have a go at djing and promoting....and as a result we have a calender now that no-one could have envisaged in the past 3 decades....just too much to go to, in this day and age, being spoilt is an understatement. all and sundry believe their gig is the business....you cant blame them for that, as for heads getting together....sorry,....too far down the line to stop this runaway train.

if the scene's going through a trough, its hardly noticeable...when wigan shut, the end of the world was nigh, because it was the casino...or nothing.venues open and close in the blink of an eye now and they are still increasing...i go goggle-eyed looking at the ss events guide.

are you or i going to tell a person not to want to be a dj or promotor because there are too many of them out there now?. no one has a god given right to even suggest, let alone think it.

the major promotors have moved into the weekender market in an effort to up the ante,bargaining that punters will find it more to their taste, being able to get away at a seaside resort for a reasonable price with a top line-up of djs and being able to pop in and out at their leisure.

if anything could be concieved as a threat to the myriad of soul nights/nighters you would think the weekender would be the tipping point.....but it isnt.....because life still goes on and there are still just as many gigs. square one then....a good many on here....debateing this are the very same people who pronounced...fook it i can do this...i want to be a dj and then ill be a promotor as well! and we're all clashing with each other and annoying the fook out of every one and.... BUGGER ME, THERE'S EVEN MORE PEOPLE WANTING TO HAVE A GO!.

vicious circle or what? and we contributed to it in the first place so, are we all prepared to share the blame for what we started?

exactly how far do you want this debate to go when its already at a dead end?

[Guest smudgesmith]

If we are honest (that'll be hard ) most of the smaller venues are there so the promoter of that do can dj,end of!!....if he never put on his venue........they would,nt go out to someone elses......sad fact everyone wants to dj and this is the way they do it.

What needs to happen is for national well respected dj,s who have the tunes TO START SAYING ...NO!! TO EVERY LITTLE TIN POT SOUL EVENT THAT POPS UP.......this is not being eliteist just common sense. some dj,s seem to dj at every venue possible wether or not they are right for that venue....

Alot of venues need to shut ..........they just keep hanging on why? god only knows. Chalkys right,but since when did reason and common sense prevail. peggy b

Well Peggy nail on head etc................everybody wants to be a DJ.............I havent written this for an argument or to have a pop at anyone,its just an observation.A Dj should entertain (lots just stand there and put records on and wouldnt even know how to use mic) and to put petrol on the fire they should use real records!!!!!

Now i will just sit back and take the flack

[Guest]

at the behest of Little Stevie here's a topic for and about promoters and their promotions. Please refrain from the usual have a go at the usual suspects. This is meant to be a serious look at gettinng promoters heads together for the good of the scene. Think it is agreed that it can't carry on the way it is with an ever decreasing number of paying customers and few if any youngsters to take their places.

There's too much clashing, too many nights (too many close together), promoters promoting for the sake of running a venue and maybe getting the chance to DJ?

So lets get things out in the open, don't be shy have your say, punters too, but like I said keep it sensible

I imagine in 5 years or so there will be only a handful of events left.

sort of like it was in the 80s

when you had to but it really was worth making that 200 mile round trip

hopefully that will be the way again someday.

Don't get me wrong, Ive had a crack at putting on local Soul Nights in our area in the last few years, but at the end of the day you have to ask yourself that big question.

"Why am I doing this"

We had Mick H, Roger Banks, Johnny Fingers help us out at our nights, and they were good nights that were well attended.

But to be honest - Brian Ellis had been doing his Broughton Soul nights (down the road) for at least 5 years before us, and there are only so many fans in this area.

We never clashed with Brian as we always looked at the calender, but lets be perfectly honest.

What was the point in going regular with a Soul night already going on monthly less than 5 miles away ?

So we had another go at a night mixing Soul / 60s Ska / Funk / Latin. We were trying to appeal to the Mod / Scooter scene whilst still dropping quality 60s Soul

That was a complete waste of time as there are about 4 Mods left in our area and the Scooterists only wanted to hear The Specials

So we ended up with no Soul fans (because of the ska) and no Scooteboys (because the ska was too obscure)

So my intention these days is to pop along to Broughton Wings more often for a beer when I am off work. (its much less stressful and just as much fun)

this soul thing is all about collecting vinyl for me, and I will carry on doing that forever !!!!

All I am saying to the little soul night promoters out there is - check yourselfs out !

What is the point in starting another Soul night in your area, just because you can ?

think of the bigger picture !

Peace !

[Boogaloo]

It's not a coincidence that there's little of no comments from the South East soul clubs. I know lots of the promoters 'dahn ere' have listed their nights with Chrissie who sends out regular updates on the clubs in the region and has lead to the least amount of clashing clubs for ages.

Personally I've cut down the number of nights I do by half this year as I'd rather run 6 really good ones rather than 12 OK ones. Seems to be working. Not rocket science either.

[Wiggyflat]

It's not a coincidence that there's little of no comments from the South East soul clubs. I know lots of the promoters 'dahn ere' have listed their nights with Chrissie who sends out regular updates on the clubs in the region and has lead to the least amount of clashing clubs for ages.

Personally I've cut down the number of nights I do by half this year as I'd rather run 6 really good ones rather than 12 OK ones. Seems to be working. Not rocket science either.

Dahn here theres boogaloo (see above) r&b, popcorn, boogaloo, latin and northern soul.Rob Bailey has his doos which are more Mod orientated.Solid Hit Soul is in a pub basement and is rarer sixties soul.6TS at the 100 Club which is unique in the mix.Va Va Voom which is rare 7ts and sixties (lots of mid tempo stuff), Walls Of Heartache...Tamla and eighties mod biggies with some northern,Crystal Palace Soul (seventies funkier stuff),, Towerful Of Soul (never been don't know the music policy)........what there isnt is a 100 % northern soul club.I'm keeping away from London as theres tooo much going on.By the way I appreciate the music from all the venues and Im a regular at most of the venues (esp Solid Hit which is the best night in London IMHO)...

[Paul Shirley]

What's established? Any night that was there when a new promoter decides to promote a venue. There's room for all-nighters to suit all tastes just as long as a bit of planning and respect /consideration for long established events is given.

yeah but come on most of the established promotors er? i mean venues all tend to be runn by the same people who runn more than one venue and tend to rule the roost in my opinion, so forget blaming others ..i think people are becoming a little bored with them .

you dont own me you know said with a peter kay accsent

Edited July 21, 2010 by steptoe

[Chalky]

I imagine in 5 years or so there will be only a handful of events left.

sort of like it was in the 80s

I remember plenty of events in the 80's, not so many paying customers but plenty of events. I can remember 6 all-nighters on one night.

[Citizen P]

yeah but come on most of the established promotors er? i mean venues all tend to be runn by the same people who runn more than one venue and tend to rule the roost in my opinion, so forget blaming others ..i think people are becoming a little bored with them .

you dont own me you know said with a peter kay accsent

That's an interesting point Paul, I know of more than one that run 2 or more nights a month,

Doesn't give 'em much time to go out as a punter then does it ???

Tony

[paultp]

at the behest of Little Stevie here's a topic for and about promoters and their promotions. Please refrain from the usual have a go at the usual suspects. This is meant to be a serious look at gettinng promoters heads together for the good of the scene. Think it is agreed that it can't carry on the way it is with an ever decreasing number of paying customers and few if any youngsters to take their places.

There's too much clashing, too many nights (too many close together), promoters promoting for the sake of running a venue and maybe getting the chance to DJ?

So lets get things out in the open, don't be shy have your say, punters too, but like I said keep it sensible

Not sure if I should reply as I hardly ever go out to Soul nights anymore and never went to many niters either, just a few 100 clubs. I was a div in the 70's for about 2 years and then actually discovered the music in the 90's.

But anyway, surely this is a problem that will sort itself out?

Too many events and not enough paying customers = less events (unless promoters are happy losing money)

Niters originally grew as they fitted the licensing system, alcohol could only be served until 10.30 or 11 and even specially licensed venues couldn't open to the public after 2 am. A members only club that didn't require a supply of alcohol was seen by venue owners as second income stream. At the risk of being shot down; two examples of this are Wigan and The 100 Club - both opened their doors after an earlier event had kicked out.

With a different licensing system venue owners want something that starts early and either pays all night or finishes at a reasonable hour. But having said that, the current licensing laws make getting a venue for a niter much easier these days - hence more niters which start earlier.

The customer base for Northern Soul (rare soul, modern soul - call it what you like) has also changed. People are generally in their 50's and their lives are somewhat different and probably more complicated than when they were teenagers. There is still a small core of people who will travel to hear new music (although arguably their isn't much that's new these days) or specific DJ's, but the majority probably want something that is more sociable. Quite a lot just want a bit of nostalgia - to hear the tunes that raise the hairs on the back of their necks and that their feet know the words to. A lot of people can't or don't want to spend every weekend doing three soul nights two niters and a dayer because they have other things to do in their lives. There are those that want to and they have venues to choose from.

As for getting youngsters involved, I've given my opinion of this before. If youngsters embrace the music they will do it in their own way - they probably won't pay £1000+ for a 45 and (apart from the few children that turn up with their parents) they will not want to mix with a load of 50+'ers on a night out unless they get a kick out of seeing their grandparents off their face.

Another thing that has changed is the insistence on OVO - as far as I can make out this was never an issue in the 70's; new tunes were the thing - record collecting came after hearing new tunes. If someone found a new tune it would quite often be cut onto an emi disc and passed around to other DJ's to play in their sets to get a tune known. Other copies eventually surfaced and these were bought by record collecters. Most people's 70's record collections however consisted of bootlegs because vinyl was the medium of the day and the customers didn't know better and didn't care either.

So these things have completely changed the NS scene - availablity of venue, age of customer, difference of opinion on format. There are now so many events because it is quite easy to put an event on. Events cater to different sorts of customer wanting different things from a venue - new tunes, OVO, nostalgia, oldies, whatever. Everyone wants to be a DJ and guess what? They can be! Just get some records (buy your way into the OVO scene or drop a couple of ton on boots and pressings - depends on audience) and book a venue. Everyone can be a promoter too - book a venue then book some DJ's.

To be honest I'm not sure what the issue is here - if a night isn't what you want it to be then don't go - there's plenty of other nights to choose from and those that don't pay their way in the niche they have chosen will fold.

This isn't the first time that it has been suggested on here that a few people sort out "the scene" - truth is there isn't a "scene" any more - there are loads of different ones. "Northern Soul" is now a term that conjures up an image for many of the general public in the same way as the term "Rock and Roll" conjures up an image for me (quiffs, elvis, drapes and teddy boys). I think if I ever started up a night again (unlikely) I would ensure that the words "Northern Soul" didn't appear on the flyer.

So my point is, Northern Soul is now mainstream - and like every other musical genre there are too many clubs, too many different versions and opinions of what it is and also people now make a living out of it.

You are not going to turn it back into what it was (or think it was) and nobody is going to be in charge and tell people what they can and can't do. You just have to accept it for what it is and pick the bit of it that you want to go with and enjoy it.

Cheers

Paul

[Stevie]

You just have to accept it for what it is and pick the bit of it that you want to go with and enjoy it.

Sensible post. The final sentence just about sums it up for me..

[Guest Phil Armstrong]

I seem to have written this on a few other threads but as it's been put on one forum, I suppose I should write it again.

The Benn hall is a popular venue in Rugby and to get the same dates every year, we have to book up to 7 years in advance...

And we still get people offering us money to use the Benn for their wedding etc.

I do put up the dates on here and on the web site.

And as Chalky says, a lot of us do talk. I can give out my dates to anyone who wants them...

But because of this, it does make it hard for us to be flexible for the soul scene.

I have even had apologies from other promoters who clashed with us because of not being able to get any other date.

It is a free world and no one has the given right to demand that their date is theirs and no one elses but I've got to admit, it does effect numbers and it would be a perfect world if there were no clashes.

Another point, I know the all-niter crowd like them to start and finish later but as we started as a soul nite and still get support from a lot of those who don't wish to stay all-nite, we decided to run from 8pm and offer those who came in the first hour, a discount.

We have no choice in the finish time as that is as late as the management will allow.

I'm not sure that this thread will help in anyway but I suppose it's a good way of putting your own point across...

I am offering my apology to you as an All - Nighter I have scheduled for next year clashes with yourself. This is after checking with a number of promoters and DJ's in an attempt to not clash with anyone, after seeing the clash I tried to find alternative dates at the venue to no avail.

Phil

[KevH]

Some more mainstream nights start up with no apparent consideration for the Rare'r struggling nights.But then again,if they are not part of that scene how are they to know.?.Two scene's on the go - one not even aware of the other.....maybe using the demise as an excuse to start up another night.

Said this before,how's the cull going to start?.Who goes and who stays?.And on what dates?.Impossible task.

Put your keys in the middle guys,see what you pull out.

[Paul Shirley]

That's an interesting point Paul, I know of more than one that run 2 or more nights a month,

Doesn't give 'em much time to go out as a punter then does it ???

Tony

could we be thinking of the same people tony ? i never seen any of them at any club's only there own . and where dose it say that all the established clubs are all good ? and we must go and keep them going? even if they have declined and no longer cutting it' people here seem to be forgetting these are very hard times all pubs and clubs are feeling it . anyway rather than keep moaning about it i decided to pack it in and shut up . nothing worse than people shouting how we must suport there venue . for me gone are the days i could travell all over the place there aint a lot of money around and and old age is setting in f... hell is it so hard to understand why folks are droping off and being choosy about when and where they go ? its tough at the top lol let them get on with it

Edited July 21, 2010 by steptoe

[Paul Shirley]

Not sure if I should reply as I hardly ever go out to Soul nights anymore and never went to many niters either, just a few 100 clubs. I was a div in the 70's for about 2 years and then actually discovered the music in the 90's.

But anyway, surely this is a problem that will sort itself out?

Too many events and not enough paying customers = less events (unless promoters are happy losing money)

Niters originally grew as they fitted the licensing system, alcohol could only be served until 10.30 or 11 and even specially licensed venues couldn't open to the public after 2 am. A members only club that didn't require a supply of alcohol was seen by venue owners as second income stream. At the risk of being shot down; two examples of this are Wigan and The 100 Club - both opened their doors after an earlier event had kicked out.

With a different licensing system venue owners want something that starts early and either pays all night or finishes at a reasonable hour. But having said that, the current licensing laws make getting a venue for a niter much easier these days - hence more niters which start earlier.

The customer base for Northern Soul (rare soul, modern soul - call it what you like) has also changed. People are generally in their 50's and their lives are somewhat different and probably more complicated than when they were teenagers. There is still a small core of people who will travel to hear new music (although arguably their isn't much that's new these days) or specific DJ's, but the majority probably want something that is more sociable. Quite a lot just want a bit of nostalgia - to hear the tunes that raise the hairs on the back of their necks and that their feet know the words to. A lot of people can't or don't want to spend every weekend doing three soul nights two niters and a dayer because they have other things to do in their lives. There are those that want to and they have venues to choose from.

As for getting youngsters involved, I've given my opinion of this before. If youngsters embrace the music they will do it in their own way - they probably won't pay £1000+ for a 45 and (apart from the few children that turn up with their parents) they will not want to mix with a load of 50+'ers on a night out unless they get a kick out of seeing their grandparents off their face.

Another thing that has changed is the insistence on OVO - as far as I can make out this was never an issue in the 70's; new tunes were the thing - record collecting came after hearing new tunes. If someone found a new tune it would quite often be cut onto an emi disc and passed around to other DJ's to play in their sets to get a tune known. Other copies eventually surfaced and these were bought by record collecters. Most people's 70's record collections however consisted of bootlegs because vinyl was the medium of the day and the customers didn't know better and didn't care either.

So these things have completely changed the NS scene - availablity of venue, age of customer, difference of opinion on format. There are now so many events because it is quite easy to put an event on. Events cater to different sorts of customer wanting different things from a venue - new tunes, OVO, nostalgia, oldies, whatever. Everyone wants to be a DJ and guess what? They can be! Just get some records (buy your way into the OVO scene or drop a couple of ton on boots and pressings - depends on audience) and book a venue. Everyone can be a promoter too - book a venue then book some DJ's.

To be honest I'm not sure what the issue is here - if a night isn't what you want it to be then don't go - there's plenty of other nights to choose from and those that don't pay their way in the niche they have chosen will fold.

This isn't the first time that it has been suggested on here that a few people sort out "the scene" - truth is there isn't a "scene" any more - there are loads of different ones. "Northern Soul" is now a term that conjures up an image for many of the general public in the same way as the term "Rock and Roll" conjures up an image for me (quiffs, elvis, drapes and teddy boys). I think if I ever started up a night again (unlikely) I would ensure that the words "Northern Soul" didn't appear on the flyer.

So my point is, Northern Soul is now mainstream - and like every other musical genre there are too many clubs, too many different versions and opinions of what it is and also people now make a living out of it.

You are not going to turn it back into what it was (or think it was) and nobody is going to be in charge and tell people what they can and can't do. You just have to accept it for what it is and pick the bit of it that you want to go with and enjoy it.

Cheers

Paul

yes i agree very good post

[KevH]

could we be thinking of the same people tony ? i never seen any of them at any club's only there own .

Tony,not just who you're thinking of.Happens near my area as well.

[Rugby Soul Club]

I am offering my apology to you as an All - Nighter I have scheduled for next year clashes with yourself. This is after checking with a number of promoters and DJ's in an attempt to not clash with anyone, after seeing the clash I tried to find alternative dates at the venue to no avail.

Phil

...Oh well at least we have a nice public apology and we wont be accused of arranging our dates to diss you...

Good luck...