Bad Grading From A Ss Member

[Guest MissHongkongfuey]

Whenever I've purchased vinyl from a Soul Source member previously, I've always been delighted with accurate grading etc and have never been let down by anything or anyone. Unlike Ebay....I've once or twice had to send something back and requested a refund.

Today I recieved a long time want and although it was £150, thats a hell of a lot of money for me!! In the sales section it was discribed at Mint -. In my books that would be a nice clean record with a minimum amount of wear, good gloss etc. An extremely well looked after 45"????

I'd discribe it more honestly as a very scuffed record, the flip is totally unplayable, with deep gouges and with writing, there is a slight warp but saying this......apart from some noise on the run-in. it plays suprisingly well. In my opinion a VG+ possibly??? If i sold it on, I couldn't possibly grade it as anything less which would put off many buyers.

I'm happy to keep the 45 because it does play well but would it be acceptable to ask for a part refund??? I want to be careful in my wording as not to offend the other member on here. I'm also concerned because if I ask for a full refund and send the item back, I'm not covered because i paid as a "gift"???

Some advice would be appreciated please

Teresa

[Guest]

Any decent member on here should be glad to either take the 45 back and issue a full refund or negotiate a portion of your money back, just PM him/her and politely inform him of the facts and see how they respond.

No need to name and shame at this point.

Edited July 14, 2010 by Guest

[Simsy]

would it be acceptable to ask for a part refund?

Oh hell yeah!

If it were me I'd pm the member concerned and state yo need cash back - or it's scans & name and shame.

Can't have that mate. That's not cricket!

[Guest]

Any decent member on here should be glad to either take the 45 back and issue a full refund or negotiate a portion of your money back, just PM him/her and politely inform him of the facts and see how they respond.

No need to name and shame at this point.

Spot-on Steve.

[Hammersoul]

I`ve bought records off other members on here for many moons now and yes now and again you get a record not up to my standard.Has long has you pm the seller first and keep it in house,you should`t have a problem sorting it out.

[Modernsoulsucks]

M- should look like new with any very small blemish only noticeable under strong light.

Unplayable flip means VG-. You don't just grade one side of the 45.

ROD

[Guest MissHongkongfuey]

To top it off.....Just had a friend pop by and his words were "Kin ell, I would be ashamed to pass that as even a good condition 45"!!! Apparently my personal grading of it was far too generous.

Off to send message and i'll post up how things go

Wish me luck Daddio's

[Guest]

To top it off.....Just had a friend pop by and his words were "Kin ell, I would be ashamed to pass that as even a good condition 45"!!! Apparently my personal grading of it was far too generous.

Off to send message and i'll post up how things go

Wish me luck Daddio's

Stick to your own opinion,if i found a record that plays pretty good and looked shagged i would say so and put a sound clip up i certainly would not sell em as scrap especialy if there some demand,its whats in the grooves that count i have dial "L" for lonely absolutelyy shagged but play E+ paid £17 for it off Guy i'm well happy so got it half price i s'pose.

[Mister Fish]

I too had a problem with a member on here. Paid £175 for a EX. The vinyl was fine maybe VG+ but the label was water damaged and was written on in felt tip.

When I complained he stated that he need not mention the label and that an ''EX grade is 3 down from Mint ie, Mint, Mint Minus, EX plus'' wouldn't take it back and never returned my PM's. I sold it on and lost £50..

[Guest]

Tiny bit of writing on label but not too bad,you cant see the scratches when it in the sleeve

madeline wilson - dial l for lonely -

[Mark Bicknell]

Buying and selling records should be based on trust and if a buyer is not happy be it on here, Ebay or from a record dealer direct a full refund and no questions asked should be offered, most people who sell records value their good name and reputation so there should be no problems, I move a lot of records and rarely have any returns or problems, recently sent a copy of Mitty Collier - Pain to a member on here Stateside and the record snapped in the post, I asked him to return the record and refunded the cost without any issues, sold an Emotions record to another member which had a drill hole in the deadwax which did not affect play but buyer was unhappy with it so again asked him to return the record and issued a refund.

Regards - Mark Bicknell.

[Pete S]

I too had a problem with a member on here. Paid £175 for a EX. The vinyl was fine maybe VG+ but the label was water damaged and was written on in felt tip.

When I complained he stated that he need not mention the label and that an ''EX grade is 3 down from Mint ie, Mint, Mint Minus, EX plus'' wouldn't take it back and never returned my PM's. I sold it on and lost £50..

That's outrageous, you should have said something about it on the site, how can that not be mentioned in the description?

[Guest MissHongkongfuey]

Tiny bit of writing doesn't really bother me either but " BETTY BOVA" in red marker pen does!

I've just taken a few snaps of it and I'm pretty shocked at how bad it is under a strong light. No reply as yet but i suppose i've got to give a good 24hrs for him to respond. I really hope he turns out to be a fair bloke and as a SS member....I'm having to keep the faith lol

BETTY BOVA???.....I'll show him BOVVER:ph34r: if he turns out to be an arse

[Guest Matt Male]

Tiny bit of writing doesn't really bother me either but " BETTY BOVA" in red marker pen does!

I've just taken a few snaps of it and I'm pretty shocked at how bad it is under a strong light. No reply as yet but i suppose i've got to give a good 24hrs for him to respond. I really hope he turns out to be a fair bloke and as a SS member....I'm having to keep the faith lol

BETTY BOVA???.....I'll show him BOVVER:ph34r: if he turns out to be an arse

I hope he's a fair bloke too because if someone had opened up a thread about me before PMing me i'd be none too happy.

[NEV]

Whenever I've purchased vinyl from a Soul Source member previously, I've always been delighted with accurate grading etc and have never been let down by anything or anyone. Unlike Ebay....I've once or twice had to send something back and requested a refund.

Today I recieved a long time want and although it was £150, thats a hell of a lot of money for me!! In the sales section it was discribed at Mint -. In my books that would be a nice clean record with a minimum amount of wear, good gloss etc. An extremely well looked after 45"????

I'd discribe it more honestly as a very scuffed record, the flip is totally unplayable, with deep gouges and with writing, there is a slight warp but saying this......apart from some noise on the run-in. it plays suprisingly well. In my opinion a VG+ possibly??? If i sold it on, I couldn't possibly grade it as anything less which would put off many buyers.

I'm happy to keep the 45 because it does play well but would it be acceptable to ask for a part refund??? I want to be careful in my wording as not to offend the other member on here. I'm also concerned because if I ask for a full refund and send the item back, I'm not covered because i paid as a "gift"???

Some advice would be appreciated please

Teresa

Sympathise with you Teresa ..

Unlike buying something that has just been manufactured and replacable ,sadly when it's a rare record ,and a long time want ...it's not so easy to just send it back is it?

Ok if it's totally shagged ,but more often than not ,the record plays ok but is not in the condition as described ,thus meaning you've paid over the odds!

I've lost count the number of records i've bought that were described as EX or NM and have been warped ,scuffed ,scratched ,have damaged labels and worst ,play with crackles throughout.

Not from SOURCERS on the whole but a few have been and the excuses are a joke, but not funny when you consider the fees

I'd be lying if i said i have'nt got grades wrong in the past ,but the fact is ,if ever someone has not been happy and contacted me to say so, i've always offered a full refund on return or if they want to keep it,a partial refund and always a polite apology !

The truth is the seller knows that down grading reduces the value ,so rather than do it ,they take the chance that you won't say anything because your happy to get your long time want.

And i think i've already said this before on another thread.....While it's ok for people on here to request you send paypal as a gift .....it changes your rights to a refund.

To me ...if as a fellow member of the soulsource community ,you feel we are all decent, honest and trustworthy enough to send payment asa gift..then at least do the decent thing and return that trust,and offer a full refund if the buyer is'nt happy .

P.s Hope whoever sold you the record does the decent thing and you get this sorted amicably

[Guest Bearsy]

ive bought a few records from peeps on here and the grading no where near what they described, do they do it all the time and hope the person wants the record that much they dont want the hassle and greif of asking for a refund but when i ask for a refund then a refund is offered the apollogy comes out and no questions asked, at times i feel ive been taken for a mug by fellow soul sourcers but you live and learn and one thing is for sure i wont buy from them members again unless it is something i want so bad of course, the other thing that never gets me buying from anyone and thats if they say its a great clean copy but wont actually give a grade, why not just grade what is there to hide ??

be bold and brave and say it how it is and stick by your guns and if anything put a WANT up on here for a minter, you never know

on the whole though i would say 99% of the deals ive done ive been more than happy with

[Guest MissHongkongfuey]

I hope he's a fair bloke too because if someone had opened up a thread about me before PMing me i'd be none too happy.

Hi Matt! Thats why I would never have named him. I just wanted advice because I'd never been in this situation with a Soul Source member before:( . With Ebay problems and I've been really lucky to say that there havn't been many. I just asked for money back and return. I've never encountered negotiating for a reduction/part refund before.

[Guest MissHongkongfuey]

:thumbsup:Really thrilled to say that I've just been offered a full refund or an offer of a part refund. I've asked that the price be reduced to £100 or if thats not accepted, then I'll take the refund option. Couldn't be fairer than that.

One thing I did struggle with is that he said that he grades all his vinyl by sound quality alone, and that most DJs do too. Also that he'd never looked at the flipside, or treats condition as a part of the grading process, and that its accepted by his "satisfied customers"????

Good job I kept that faith and all that. Also many thanks for the advice and encouragment.

Teresa

[Guest MissHongkongfuey]

Forgot to mention that I advised him to use recognised gradings and not his own FFS!! lol

[Modernsoulsucks]

Maybe Matt, the seller should have thought of that before taking £150 for a M- 45 with an unplayable b-side.

Also what is the point of Miss H, Bearsy and Nev all coming on here with tales of woe but the rest of us don't have a clue who these sellers are and we could be next.

Occurs to me all three of you could be referring to the same guy but we'll never know cos there's no mechanism to highlight dodgy sellers or sellers who just haven't got a clue as to how to grade.

ROD

[Premium Stuff]

I bought a very rare WDJ copy of a detroit anthem from a Soul Sourcer recently from 'sales'. It was described as Ex+. I asked for some extra condition info and got it, but no scans as I had requested.

When I got it I was very disappointed with the condition as it was well below the description. Only VG I thought.

Anyway, I had a quick look at Popsike and there was the very same 45 (with a picture!) with the distinguishing marks meaning there was no mistake - it was graded VG.

Issue was, due to some problems I was having around the time, I had to shelve going back to the seller and then felt it was too late to go back to them - but obviously I'm still pissed off - record was £500+ and the grading was totally 'kin shameful.

Cheers

Richard

Edited July 14, 2010 by Premium Stuff

[Pete S]

Maybe Matt, the seller should have thought of that before taking £150 for a M- 45 with an unplayable b-side.

Also what is the point of Miss H, Bearsy and Nev all coming on here with tales of woe but the rest of us don't have a clue who these sellers are and we could be next.

Occurs to me all three of you could be referring to the same guy but we'll never know cos there's no mechanism to highlight dodgy sellers or sellers who just haven't got a clue as to how to grade.

ROD

Miss H said it was one of her wants, you just have to see any wants she posted in that section. Maybe.

[Guest Bearsy]

Maybe Matt, the seller should have thought of that before taking £150 for a M- 45 with an unplayable b-side.

Also what is the point of Miss H, Bearsy and Nev all coming on here with tales of woe but the rest of us don't have a clue who these sellers are and we could be next.

Occurs to me all three of you could be referring to the same guy but we'll never know cos there's no mechanism to highlight dodgy sellers or sellers who just haven't got a clue as to how to grade.

ROD

My point was highlighting that not all Soul Source sellers are perfect and that if you have an issue dont be afraid to tell them, in other words, i had issues and sorted them cos i told them i wasnt happy wih grading and up to now every one i have questioned had been no problem to refund all or part or even take the record back, so dont worry just go for it

Rod would you name someone who mis graded you and sorted the problem out ammicably ?? no need to shame we all are big enough to handle any issues and if like MissHongKongFuey you are unsure and post a thread asking advice then all and any info surely must be helpful,

if it came accross wrong then im sorry was just trying to say dont worry you should be ok

[Modernsoulsucks]

My point was highlighting that not all Soul Source sellers are perfect and that if you have an issue dont be afraid to tell them, in other words, i had issues and sorted them cos i told them i wasnt happy wih grading and up to now every one i have questioned had been no problem to refund all or part or even take the record back, so dont worry just go for it

Rod would you name someone who mis graded you and sorted the problem out ammicably ?? no need to shame we all are big enough to handle any issues and if like MissHongKongFuey you are unsure and post a thread asking advice then all and any info surely must be helpful,

if it came accross wrong then im sorry was just trying to say dont worry you should be ok

Bearsy,

I see what you mean. An altercation over whether Ex or M and refunded no I wouldn't.

Some seller sending me a supposed M- 45 which had an unplayable b-side, WOL, a warp, crackles/scuffs. Im afraid I would.

Pete,

Had a look but not sure what you're referring to. George Smith [100]. Little E.S.?

[Guest Matt Male]

:thumbsup:Really thrilled to say that I've just been offered a full refund or an offer of a part refund. I've asked that the price be reduced to £100 or if thats not accepted, then I'll take the refund option. Couldn't be fairer than that.

Glad you got it sorted, most sellers are decent and honest in my experience and only need to be asked.

[Guest]

Whenever I've purchased vinyl from a Soul Source member previously, I've always been delighted with accurate grading etc and have never been let down by anything or anyone. Unlike Ebay....I've once or twice had to send something back and requested a refund.

Today I recieved a long time want and although it was £150, thats a hell of a lot of money for me!! In the sales section it was discribed at Mint -. In my books that would be a nice clean record with a minimum amount of wear, good gloss etc. An extremely well looked after 45"????

I'd discribe it more honestly as a very scuffed record, the flip is totally unplayable, with deep gouges and with writing, there is a slight warp but saying this......apart from some noise on the run-in. it plays suprisingly well. In my opinion a VG+ possibly??? If i sold it on, I couldn't possibly grade it as anything less which would put off many buyers.

I'm happy to keep the 45 because it does play well but would it be acceptable to ask for a part refund??? I want to be careful in my wording as not to offend the other member on here. I'm also concerned because if I ask for a full refund and send the item back, I'm not covered because i paid as a "gift"???

Some advice would be appreciated please

Teresa

I would always have a chat with the person you bought the 45 off first, before posting anything on here.

If you can't sort it out - then post !

as far as grading goes - its a grey area - its a personal oppinion - play grade vs visual grade on 40 year old vinyl

yes .............. a mint 45 is always going to be a mint 45

its when you get down to vg+ that oppinions can differ !!!

I buy 45s from Jamaica so my vg is your knackard

You just know right away if you are happy with the price paid and the condition of the received disc !

If not - sort it out yourself with a phone call !

Peace !

[Guest MissHongkongfuey]

Miss H said it was one of her wants, you just have to see any wants she posted in that section. Maybe.

That would be toooooo misleading Pete, as my last "want" was sourced by Geoff Claxton (Tommy Neal) and was in beautiful condition and his service is awesome!! I've yet to buy the George Smith (but will probably commit to that one today) and the Little Emmet Sutton.......No Offers of that one!!!

Rod, I'll message Bearsy and Nev with the seller to see if it the same person though.

[Guest]

Maybe Matt, the seller should have thought of that before taking £150 for a M- 45 with an unplayable b-side.

Also what is the point of Miss H, Bearsy and Nev all coming on here with tales of woe but the rest of us don't have a clue who these sellers are and we could be next.

Occurs to me all three of you could be referring to the same guy but we'll never know cos there's no mechanism to highlight dodgy sellers or sellers who just haven't got a clue as to how to grade.

ROD

there is a mechanism - leave comment in their profile page.....but i think they can delete it

on the point of most being fair enough to return or reduce, what are the consequences for the buyer if he/she has a dispute with a well known person?

i read a post where a buyer was not happy and the emails from the seller looked quite abusive. when it was posted on here as a 'name & shame' as has been suggested, loads of SS people rallied around the seller and hammered the buyer for suggesting the seller could be capable of doing such a thing as mis-grading a record.

difficult one really with the mob mentality when its 'one of the good guys' i bought an ex condition record from the same guy but the record had cue burn and a hairline crack right through (not mentioned in description). thought about contacting them but have seen the anger when anyone says anything they dont like or disagrees with - so ended up buying another copy from someone else - and selling the first one on at a £40 loss

[Guest MissHongkongfuey]

there is a mechanism - leave comment in their profile page.....but i think they can delete it

on the point of most being fair enough to return or reduce, what are the consequences for the buyer if he/she has a dispute with a well known person?

i read a post where a buyer was not happy and the emails from the seller looked quite abusive. when it was posted on here as a 'name & shame' as has been suggested, loads of SS people rallied around the seller and hammered the buyer for suggesting the seller could be capable of doing such a thing as mis-grading a record.

difficult one really with the mob mentality when its 'one of the good guys' i bought an ex condition record from the same guy but the record had cue burn and a hairline crack right through (not mentioned in description). thought about contacting them but have seen the anger when anyone says anything they dont like or disagrees with - so ended up buying another copy from someone else - and selling the first one on at a £40 loss

I'm really glad that it wasn't from a well known member on here Mike. Even with the price reduced to £100 (thats if he accepts that offer) I would still be out of pocket should i want to sell it on after. Its only the quality of the sound that encouraged me to still offer to pay an "over the odds" amount that its worth to me!!

I still a relatively new collector and find the whole process very intimidating, when it comes to complaining. As a few members have already suggested....Some people assume that the buyer won't complain and will take advantage.

I had a similar experience with a "well known" seller and DJ but not via this site (Think it was either Netsounds or Gemm) and he suggested, How Dare I question his grading, as he had been in the business for years. Even the most experienced seller can make mistakes, but he was having none of it. I was too much of a wuss to argue and walked away with a shite 45!!

Other peoples experiences and encouragement on this site, have helped me to grow a backbone. Asking for a part refund is something thats completely new to me. If i'd not posted up yesterday, I probably would have walked away and said nothing and sat simmering for weeks with something that to me, was a hell of alot of wasted money. I only work part-time so £150 is close to 2 weeks wages for me.

He has his comments disabled also. I've yet to recieve a reply as to if he wants to accept my offer and no part refund back in the account yet. I was really pleased when he replied to the message but am still stunned with his grading policy. This member doesn't have many posts under his belt, is also overseas. So panic alarms were automatic and that sick feeling hit me the minute i opened the package. He assures me that there was no intention to rip me off and that mistakes were made. But it's also easier for him to dissappear without trace than myself!!!

Teresa

[Dave Moore]

I'm really glad that it wasn't from a well known member on here Mike. Even with the price reduced to £100 (thats if he accepts that offer) I would still be out of pocket should i want to sell it on after. Its only the quality of the sound that encouraged me to still offer to pay an "over the odds" amount that its worth to me!!

I still a relatively new collector and find the whole process very intimidating, when it comes to complaining. As a few members have already suggested....Some people assume that the buyer won't complain and will take advantage.

I had a similar experience with a "well known" seller and DJ but not via this site (Think it was either Netsounds or Gemm) and he suggested, How Dare I question his grading, as he had been in the business for years. Even the most experienced seller can make mistakes, but he was having none of it. I was too much of a wuss to argue and walked away with a shite 45!!

Other peoples experiences and encouragement on this site, have helped me to grow a backbone. Asking for a part refund is something thats completely new to me. If i'd not posted up yesterday, I probably would have walked away and said nothing and sat simmering for weeks with something that to me, was a hell of alot of wasted money. I only work part-time so £150 is close to 2 weeks wages for me.

He has his comments disabled also. I've yet to recieve a reply as to if he wants to accept my offer and no part refund back in the account yet. I was really pleased when he replied to the message but am still stunned with his grading policy. This member doesn't have many posts under his belt, is also overseas. So panic alarms were automatic and that sick feeling hit me the minute i opened the package. He assures me that there was no intention to rip me off and that mistakes were made. But it's also easier for him to dissappear without trace than myself!!!

Teresa

If you bought a car and it came banged and dented when the seller had told you it was almost perfetct, would you not complain? Buying records is no different to buying anything else. Mint- means MINT -. No ambiguity there, no, 'it's a personal thing' it's Mint -. that means it should look perfect in daylight but maybe have some marks under a strong light. Gouges? Unplayable B Side? Someone trying to shift a crap copy for 'book price' seems to me. Me...I'd send it back and buy another 'proper' one.

Regards,

Dave

[Baz Atkinson]

Pleased you got refunded whoever it was perhaps should of stated a refunds policy say within 7 days or 14 days -i firmly like to keep my deals private when i sell but always state full refunds if not happy-and try and describe the condition -ALWAYS ACCOMPANIED BY RECORDED DELIVERY -id say the vast majority on here are good eggs although theres always exceptions !!

BAZ A

[Guest]

I'm glad you're on the way to an amicable solution with this .

Really surprised by the amount of posts suggesting a number of sellers purpose;y misgrade to get a higher sales price and assume buyers will just put up with a VG record at a M- price?? As a full time seller I think the total opposite, that if I send someone a battered 45 which I advertised as Miknt, I assume the buyer will ask for a refund and tell all his mates that I'm a robbing git......potential loss of reputation and future sales being the only long term result for me. For various reasons I list less and less sales on here but like many sellers do, and IMO every seller should do, I offer a full money back refund if for any reason a buyer is not satisfied. I'm confident in my grading but when I make a mistake I expect to get pulled up on it and when you're grading/listing hundreds of 45s a week mistakes do occasionally happen. Send it back and I'll give you the money back is surely the only way to deal with any unhappy buyer? One thing I won't do (unless it's a long term customer or someone I know) is part-refunds as experience has taught me this is far too open to abuse, I would only do part-refunds if the buyer sends the disc back to me so I can regrade and reassess my price.

Grading will never be exactly the same from different sellers as we all have a slighhtly different take on whatmakes a disc M- or EX etc, after a short time buying/selling you soon learn who the strict graders are and aren't. Buy something from, for example, Rod which he has graded EX and you'll get a record that's in outstanding condition and would be described as M- in many other sellers descriptions (hello Rod, hope you're well mate?). Then theres people who I autiomatically (in my head, not on their sales posts!) change their M- to EX as I know from experience that my personal grading is generally stricter than theirs. But surely any seller who intentionally grades knackered records as EX upwards and prices them accordingly will very quickly lose the vast majority of their buyers? Might make a quick buck but never going to maintain any long term sales so it can't be in their interest to do it?

Adam.

[Modernsoulsucks]

Adam, thanks for the recommendation.

I agree with you, and earlier Bearsy, about trying to sort it out with the seller first where it is a genuine difference of opinion on grading but in this instance no way is this particular 45 anyway approaching M-. It is misrepresentation, and I see another old cantankerous SS member has agreed with me.

Why people do it I've no idea cos you would think that at some stage their reputation would be such they would find it hard to sell but maybe enough buyers out there who aren't fussed that the odd comeback is immaterial to them.

There's now been a few posts with unsatisfied buyers so there is a problem.

Miss H has now agreed to buy a 45 for £100 which, if it's M- value is £150, is nowhere near that at VG-. She's done that because as she says she feels intimidated being new to collecting.

Things like this coupled with selling boots/pressings/second issues advertised somewhat ambiguously reflect badly on all sellers IMO and they do have an affect on us all because next time Miss H wants to but over the web she is going to think twice.

I do note that the seller in question is overseas with few posts so maybe he has tenuous links to the scene and isn't really concerned with the satisfaction of his fellow SS-ers, as he's highly unlikely to bump into any of us.

[funkyfeet]

MINT should mean Unplayed, the only records I list as Mint is when I know they are, new releases, or multiple stock copies I have, if I'm not 100% sure then it's Ex even if it looks mint.

Vg (-) (+) (++) a minefield, tends to be different from seller to seller.

[Liljimmycrank]

There's a pinned feedback thread in the sales section.

If you have a bad sales experience with a member on here that hasn't been resolved amicably through PM's, then why not publish the full tale (with scans if appropriate) and a name in this thread?

I'm sure people can then make their own mind up whether to buy off that member or not in the future.

Or indeed they can defend themselves if they feel that to be harsh and unjust.

The thread was posted by a moderator so would be managed from becoming a mud slinging match.

Azza