£342 For A Carver

[funkyfeet]

Just my ten pence worth:

Spots have always been taped, that's why we have sound bites from the Casino etc.

Boots have been part of the scene since day one.

Artists don't get a penny off an original that sells on ebay anymore than they do from a boot.

Do you buy legal UK/Import releases if the answers yes good on you then maybe the artists actually gets a return from these sales.

Quite often the artist got this full payment when the recording was done, and actually the people who lose out to boots are the writers/producers/arrangers/label owners and not the singers.

Remember it was a day job and it lots of instances they were happy to take the daily rate.

Before anybody gets on there high horse, I've always bought new imports/Uk releases so I feel I've done my bit can everybody on here state they done theres, remember buying originals years after the events the only person who gains is the seller, and not anybody who was involved with the original recording.

[Wiggyflat]

It was when the original promoters of The Rocket had their venue scuppered by the rest of the London soulies, who then took over the venue, and the original promoters recorded all the dj sets as a kind of revenge and then gave them to friends.

To put the record straight I never recorded anyones set or had any knowledge of this whilst i was involved in its running.. Must have happened after myself and Paul pulled out..............theres also a difference recording someones spot from a mixing desk and recording it on your mobile.

Edited July 7, 2010 by wiggyflat

[Guest martyn]

Yep I agree with this Pete, clearly said it was a carver. If some idiot wants to shell out silly money for a £10 carver please get in touch and I'll get some cut

BUT ;

1. The item has been made to look like any Amy acetate

2. Not every collector understands the term carver

Otherwise I would agree , but the listing did confuse (possibly not intentionaly ) at least one collector on here who didn't understand what a carver is .

[Paulw]

BUT ;

1. The item has been made to look like any Amy acetate

2. Not every collector understands the term carver

I agree totally with the above 2 points.

Here's a question: All of those cutting edge DJ's who knock out a 'carver'so they can 'preserve the quality of the original'or to save them carrying around LP's or,God forbid,CD's, what happens when they pass that 'carver'on to somebody else to sell for them,obviously making sure they keep another copy for themselves? Does THAT make THEM a bootlegger? Only asking,like.

[Chalky]

To put the record straight I never recorded anyones set or had any knowledge of this whilst i was involved in its running.. Must have happened after myself and Paul pulled out..............theres also a difference recording someones spot from a mixing desk and recording it on your mobile.

It was Gavin who recorded the set of Butch's, straight from the system.

[Kevinkent]

BUT ;

1. The item has been made to look like any Amy acetate

2. Not every collector understands the term carver

Otherwise I would agree , but the listing did confuse (possibly not intentionaly ) at least one collector on here who didn't understand what a carver is .

Valid points, and I was obviously wrong to presume that any hefty bidder would know what a carver was. Perhaps not wrong to presume that that anyone with sense might be prompted to ASK the seller for clarification though

Regarding the label, the following is stated in the sales blurb:

VG++ condition (some glue residue on the dead wax from the test press cover up label, plays EX+)

.....which some have either not noticed, or not understood. Even so, I just don't think there is any INTENT to confuse or deceive whatsover. There's just so much in the sales blurb that needn't have been there otherwise.

[Guest chorleybloke]

Valid points, and I was obviously wrong to presume that any hefty bidder would know what a carver was. Perhaps not wrong to presume that that anyone with sense might be prompted to ASK the seller for clarification though

Regarding the label, the following is stated in the sales blurb:

VG++ condition (some glue residue on the dead wax from the test press cover up label, plays EX+)

.....which some have either not noticed, or not understood. Even so, I just don't think there is any INTENT to confuse or deceive whatsover. There's just so much in the sales blurb that needn't have been there otherwise.

Not had chance to read the entire thread so I may be repeating summat here BUT...

1) why is this any different from what's been going on for ever - except the value is obviously higher than the 10 or 20 quid we used to pay for emidiscs?

2) what's worng with someone paying whatever he can afford for a boot that is otherwise unavailable on an MP3 or any other medium?

Couple of important givens....

1) seller's description must be honest (which it appears to be in this case)

2) buyer should only use the carver for home use (presume this will soon become known)

Cheers

Pete

[Kevinkent]

Not had chance to read the entire thread so I may be repeating summat here BUT...

1) why is this any different from what's been going on for ever - except the value is obviously higher than the 10 or 20 quid we used to pay for emidiscs?

2) what's worng with someone paying whatever he can afford for a boot that is otherwise unavailable on an MP3 or any other medium?

Couple of important givens....

1) seller's description must be honest (which it appears to be in this case)

2) buyer should only use the carver for home use (presume this will soon become known)

Cheers

Pete

Pete, in all honesty your questions and "givens" are exactly what has been debated throughout the thread. ......with some more interesting sidelines and informative bits thrown in for for good measure.

- Kev.

[Guest chorleybloke]

Pete, in all honesty your questions and "givens" are exactly what has been debated throughout the thread. ......with some more interesting sidelines and informative bits thrown in for for good measure.

- Kev.

Cheers Kev, seems like we're all on the same page then.

Pete

[Pete S]

To put the record straight I never recorded anyones set or had any knowledge of this whilst i was involved in its running.. Must have happened after myself and Paul pulled out..............theres also a difference recording someones spot from a mixing desk and recording it on your mobile.

Sorry never meant to insinuate it was yourself, everyone knows it was Gavin and he doesn't care anyway.

[Pete S]

It was Gavin who recorded the set of Butch's, straight from the system.

And Ady's set, and Mick H's - I had that Baby Don't You Weep years before they officially released it and I didn't do a single copy, nor of anyone else's tracks either

[Guest gordon russell]

Didnt Butch have Foolish girl covered up?

found by ANDY DYSON......who passed a couple on.........great tune

[Guest gordon russell]

heres a radical thought how about any promoter who has a dj that plays carvers in his spot either knowingly or otherwise A DON,T PAY THE CHEATING ERBERT

B DON,T PAY HIM AND OUT HIM TO ALL AND SUNDRY THE SCABBY ERBERT

C POST UP ON HERE WHO SAID ERBERT IS

Go on l double dare ya:yes:

This is what will happen....the promoters will turn a blind eye......CAUSE HE,S ALRIGHT,NICE FELLA....ECT! ECT!....and then slag im at every oppertunity that they get

COME ON SPAIN

[Chalky]

And Ady's set, and Mick H's - I had that Baby Don't You Weep years before they officially released it and I didn't do a single copy, nor of anyone else's tracks either

I wasn't insinuating you had passed copies on. I know others did, wide and far.

[Chalky]

Does this include carvers of unissued stuff? If so practically every dj, including those at the top of the tree are in trouble.

heres a radical thought how about any promoter who has a dj that plays carvers in his spot either knowingly or otherwise A DON,T PAY THE CHEATING ERBERT

B DON,T PAY HIM AND OUT HIM TO ALL AND SUNDRY THE SCABBY ERBERT

C POST UP ON HERE WHO SAID ERBERT IS

Go on l double dare ya:yes:

This is what will happen....the promoters will turn a blind eye......CAUSE HE,S ALRIGHT,NICE FELLA....ECT! ECT!....and then slag im at every oppertunity that they get

COME ON SPAIN

[paultp]

It was when the original promoters of The Rocket had their venue scuppered by the rest of the London soulies, who then took over the venue, and the original promoters recorded all the dj sets as a kind of revenge and then gave them to friends.

When did this happen?

[Pete Jay]

THE WAY PAUL HAD LISTED THE ITEM DOES NOT AIM TO MISLEAD IN ANY WAY WHAT BIDDERS ARE ACTUALLY BIDDING ON (IMHO).

ANY DOUBTS - ALWAYS CONTACT THE SELLER BEFORE BIDDING.

THERE HAVE BEEN SOME QUITE INTERESTING POSTS, HOWEVER THE THREAD SEEMS TO HAVE BEEN SIDE-TRACKED INTO OTHER DEBATES.

I THINK IT'S TIME FOR THE THREAD TO BE LOCKED.

PETE

[Ady Croasdell]

Sorry Ady, I forgot, there of course was NO campaign against Ian levine and the Rocket masterminded by The Dome. I made it all up.

Of course there was but it wasn't masterminded by the Dome, you make it sound like they were a bunch of Svengalis: it was a grassroots reaction by the regulars of London's main Northern Soul clubs. Let's not get into this again, you weren't involved and are just passing on what you've been told by one side of the contretemps. You can't go around making inaccurate statements like this or we'll end up wasting all our and everyone else's time.

[Ady Croasdell]

Whilst I think eventually this would be a fine idea, it hasnt reached any where near its full potential yet.......I know, I know........Andy, Butch etc have played it for years, but lets give people a chance to catch up before its re - released, they'll be other collectors, dealers, DJ's hot on the trail, so a few fresh copies wouldnt go amiss before its killed as a 'play' record.

Also anyone with a a 'spare', I'd sell a kidney for one in any playable condition .

Best Russ

It'd probably be at least a year before its release was fitted in. The alternative is for somebody to bootleg it (which has already happened to this small degree) and the people who made it would get sod all.

[Guest gordon russell]

Does this include carvers of unissued stuff? If so practically every dj, including those at the top of the tree are in trouble.

NO....only carvers of released stuff.......

[Russ Vickers]

It'd probably be at least a year before its release was fitted in. The alternative is for somebody to bootleg it (which has already happened to this small degree) and the people who made it would get sod all.

Would much prefer the high quality legitimate release to a boot for sure.............

Russ

[Simon T]

Trouble is, dub plate was the name given to an acetate by Jamaican sound systems, so dub plates are in fact Emidiscs. Well acetates anyway. Or rather they were, before 'carvers' came along. I used to get all my old acetates cut at Jah Tubbys Studio (JTS)

[NT63]

HERE`S MY TAKE ON THIS.

ANYONE IN THE RECORD BUYING WORLD,WILL KNOW WHAT THE TERM "CARVER" MEANS.AND IF THEY DONT,BEFORE GOING INTO A DEAL WOULD ALMOST CERTAINLY WANT TO FIND OUT WHAT IT MEANS.

THIS GUY WHO`S BOUGHT IT PROBABLY KNOWS WHAT HE`S GOT.A RECORD CUT FROM THE ORIGINAL,MAKING IT A 1ST PRESSING FROM THE ORIGINAL(I BET HE`S A LOT HAPPIER WITH THIS ANALOGY RATHER THAN "YOU BOUGHT A BOOT MATE".

TO THE SELLER,IN MY MIND THAT WAS A SWEET DAY AT THE OFFICE.

THERE`S TO MANY DO-GOODERS ON HERE WHO THINK THERE SHITE SMELLS LIKE STRAWBERRY`S AND ICECREAM.

NO ONE WOULD OF BLINKED AN EYELID IF ALL HE`D GOT FOR IT WAS THE 99P.THE LAD SCORED BIG TIME AND THAT`S WHERE PEOPLE HAVE THE PROBLEM.(OR MAYBE JEALOUS).

IF SOMETHING AS BEEN DESRIBED FAIRLY, AND LETS THE BUYING PUBLIC KNOW EXACTLY WHAT THEY`RE GETTING.WHAT IS THE PROBLEM WITH THAT.

GOOD ON YOU MATE.

GOMEZ

[boba]

NO ONE WOULD OF BLINKED AN EYELID IF ALL HE`D GOT FOR IT WAS THE 99P.

why do people on this thread keep making this argument? this is not an argument, this is the whole point, it shouldn't be worth more than a few bucks, and someone paying a lot more probably doesn't know what they are doing. you're right no one would have blinked an eyelid if it went for minimum, the point isn't that someone bought a carver, it's that they paid a ridiculous amount for the carver.

[Kevinkent]

why do people on this thread keep making this argument? this is not an argument, this is the whole point, it shouldn't be worth more than a few bucks, and someone paying a lot more probably doesn't know what they are doing. you're right no one would have blinked an eyelid if it went for minimum, the point isn't that someone bought a carver, it's that they paid a ridiculous amount for the carver.

Well Gomez doesn't keep making this arguement - it's his first post on this site!

Well done to him for losing his cherry on a soul thread rather than tip-toeing around on Freebasing:hatsoff2:.

- Kev.

Edited July 13, 2010 by KevinKent

[Dave Abbott]

why do people on this thread keep making this argument? this is not an argument, this is the whole point, it shouldn't be worth more than a few bucks, and someone paying a lot more probably doesn't know what they are doing. you're right no one would have blinked an eyelid if it went for minimum, the point isn't that someone bought a carver, it's that they paid a ridiculous amount for the carver.

thing is Bob that some people over here will pay a ridiculous amount for a carver esp. if they have a proper label scan stuck to it too (unlike this one; pity the fool)