Hi , just found a copy of Billy arnell-Tough girl on Holly, checked it out on popsike, looks like the original but on the B-side say's [ inst] but is vocal version , on run out groove scratched in say's holly 101, anybody know if its real or BOOT ? cheers Pete

well, the boot was a light green colour and was very poor quality, it certainly didnt resemble the original in any way and also it didnt have the instr on the other side

maybe a mis-press.

It's not the light green one, its very much like the original, thanks for the info

  On 23/05/2010 at 19:19, 123-motown said:

this is the one i have, but vocal both sides,cheers

  On 23/05/2010 at 19:54, paintpot45 said:

this is the one i have, but vocal both sides,cheers

Originals have H 1001-A or H 1001-B scratched into deadwax. nothing more or less,boots were 101,i'm guessing yours is a boot with photocopy labels.

  On 23/05/2010 at 20:14, John A said:

Originals have H 1001-A or H 1001-B scratched into deadwax. nothing more or less,boots were 101,i'm guessing yours is a boot with photocopy labels.

thanks for that, yet strange the holly leaves are different every thing else is the same.

Theres a more recent boot with a lookalike label

There's also a looky-a-bit-like-but-not-that-much boot with Moses Dillard on the other side:

I know - what's the point...

  On 23/05/2010 at 21:39, Godzilla said:

There's also a looky-a-bit-like-but-not-that-much boot with Moses Dillard on the other side:

I know - what's the point...

Yeah that was it, I knew it looked a bit like it!

Have put a picture of the 45 on Gallery, look where the holly leaves are , they are different from the orig, so it could'nt have been photo copied..or could it?

  On 24/05/2010 at 09:10, paintpot45 said:

Have put a picture of the 45 on Gallery, look where the holly leaves are , they are different from the orig, so it could'nt have been photo copied..or could it?

Other differences too. Look where the green passes thru 'Arnell" its different, and the 'tough girl' font is different too. Perhaps a photoshop job, which is more likely as the elements would have been in 'layers' and laid down separately, thereby giving the chance for 'em to be mis-aligned. The newark new jersey is too close to the Holly, as well. Any graphic designer would tell you the font spacings are all to cock. Easy way to tell, can you peel the label off! Originals are vinyl, the label will be moulded in, no way can you shift it! Something not 'right' about it. White is too 'white', no yellowing with age, like the scan of the orig. Green is off too, which leads me to believe it is more modern paper, which takes ink differently. You can't fake 1960's paper, even if you can fake the other elements. is If the plant ran out of labels, or had them from two different printers, the stamp would still read H 1001-A etc, not 101 like a boot. You also have then to account for the mis-press of the record itself, with two vocals on it. That would mean the plant set up the stampers with two vocal sides. For a little, self funded recording like Billy's, with a minimum run,I doubt they would have made more than one of each, as they are the expensive bit of the process. Try peeling the label, see what happens. It's a curious one, but the deadwax is the give away, unless someone knows different!

Edited May 24, 201015 yr by Trevski

  On 24/05/2010 at 10:15, Trevski said:

Other differences too. Look where the green passes thru 'Arnell" its different, and the 'tough girl' font is different too. Perhaps a photoshop job, which is more likely as the elements would have been in 'layers' and laid down separately, thereby giving the chance for 'em to be mis-aligned. The newark new jersey is too close to the Holly, as well. Any graphic designer would tell you the font spacings are all to cock. Easy way to tell, can you peel the label off! Originals are vinyl, the label will be moulded in, no way can you shift it! Something not 'right' about it. White is too 'white', no yellowing with age, like the scan of the orig. Green is off too, which leads me to believe it is more modern paper, which takes ink differently. You can't fake 1960's paper, even if you can fake the other elements. is If the plant ran out of labels, or had them from two different printers, the stamp would still read H 1001-A etc, not 101 like a boot. You also have then to account for the mis-press of the record itself, with two vocals on it. That would mean the plant set up the stampers with two vocal sides. For a little, self funded recording like Billy's, with a minimum run,I doubt they would have made more than one of each, as they are the expensive bit of the process. Try peeling the label, see what happens. It's a curious one, but the deadwax is the give away, unless someone knows different!

If it's got the vocal on both sides and it's poor quality and slightly too fast - it's the 70's boot with a label stuck on it

can this be some rare Monarch press gone wrong, the fonts are quiet typical of that?

Edited May 24, 201015 yr by Prophonics 2029

  On 24/05/2010 at 10:57, Prophonics 2029 said:

can this be some rare Monarch press gone wrong, the fonts are quiet typical of that?

It's from the East Coast not the West Coast isn't it?

  On 24/05/2010 at 10:15, Trevski said:

Other differences too. Look where the green passes thru 'Arnell" its different, and the 'tough girl' font is different too. Perhaps a photoshop job, which is more likely as the elements would have been in 'layers' and laid down separately, thereby giving the chance for 'em to be mis-aligned. The newark new jersey is too close to the Holly, as well. Any graphic designer would tell you the font spacings are all to cock. Easy way to tell, can you peel the label off! Originals are vinyl, the label will be moulded in, no way can you shift it! Something not 'right' about it. White is too 'white', no yellowing with age, like the scan of the orig. Green is off too, which leads me to believe it is more modern paper, which takes ink differently. You can't fake 1960's paper, even if you can fake the other elements. is If the plant ran out of labels, or had them from two different printers, the stamp would still read H 1001-A etc, not 101 like a boot. You also have then to account for the mis-press of the record itself, with two vocals on it. That would mean the plant set up the stampers with two vocal sides. For a little, self funded recording like Billy's, with a minimum run,I doubt they would have made more than one of each, as they are the expensive bit of the process. Try peeling the label, see what happens. It's a curious one, but the deadwax is the give away, unless someone knows different!

thanks for all that onfo, tried peeling off label, wont come off, like i said it say's in run out groove Holly 101

on both sides, general question ,would paper yellow even if 45 was all this time in sleeve & kept in box? Cheers Pete

  On 25/05/2010 at 15:37, paintpot45 said:

thanks for all that onfo, tried peeling off label, wont come off, like i said it say's in run out groove Holly 101

on both sides, general question ,would paper yellow even if 45 was all this time in sleeve & kept in box? Cheers Pete

The answer is yes. Pick up any book from the 60's even if it's never been opened, paper ages. It will be off-white and brittle. Can we have a better pic? the one you put up is a bit blurred. Especially a shot of the label edge, and the deadwax markings.

Happy to scan it for you, Pete.

  On 25/05/2010 at 20:06, rigilbert said:

Happy to scan it for you, Pete.

Hi Russ, thanks, will have a go at scanning it in later,me and computers dont get on!!tell the truth im computer STUPID!Cheers Pete

  On 25/05/2010 at 17:16, Trevski said:

The answer is yes. Pick up any book from the 60's even if it's never been opened, paper ages. It will be off-white and brittle. Can we have a better pic? the one you put up is a bit blurred. Especially a shot of the label edge, and the deadwax markings.

Hi could'nt upload new scan, but got it on my facebook , Peter oughton.

Ok - got a scan from Pete. I'm presuming the vertical line on the right is a mark on the scanner.

This must be another boot then ?