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45cellar

By 45cellar
in Look At Your Box

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45cellar Veteran

45cellar

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'Why do you....' is awsome :yes:

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MARVELLOS - WHY DO YOU WANNA HURT THE ONE WHO LOVES YOU - LOMA 2061 (Soundclip from Refosoul Archive)

THE MARVELLOS-SOMETHINGS BURNIN-LOMA 2045 (Soundclip from Refosoul Archive)

LARRY LASTER-GO FOR YOURSELF-LOMA 2043 (Soundclip from Refosoul Archive)

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45cellar Veteran

45cellar

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Great theme Roger!

I'd not realised that the above Linda Jones promo was of the Green Warner Bros release....

Was there also a promo for the yellow copy?:chinstroke:

I can't really say as I'd noticed.

Thanks John

I believe the Yellow Design Promo should exist, Yet to see one though.

I notice that the credit layout is Identical (Yellow v's Green) apart from the Logo Design.

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John Benson Long Time

John Benson

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Yes possibly there is one Roger, I noticed the Bobby Reed is a few numbers earlier and has a white 'non' WB promo, but the Voice Box for example being a later one is the WB release.

It could possibly be a clue as to how close it was to when the yellow Loma releases stopped?

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Amsterdam Russ Veteran

Amsterdam Russ

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It could possibly be a clue as to how close it was to when the yellow Loma releases stopped?

The Loma label changed to reflect the sale of Warner Bros (film & music) to the Seven Arts organisation for $32 million. Initially a production company, Seven Arts moved into ownership & equity arrangements and that's where they got their money from. That was in late '66. Jack Warner hung on until the summer of 67 before giving up his position with the organisation.

The changes within the organisation take, I guess, months to filter down to all levels and it's not until the start of the following year, 1968, that we see the traditional yellow Loma labels being put out with the 'new' green label. The first Loma release that I've come across that is available on both yellow and green labels is Loma 2087 - from January 1968.

Edited by rigilbert
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John Benson Long Time

John Benson

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The Loma label changed to reflect the sale of Warner Bros (film & music) to the Seven Arts organisation for $32 million. Initially a production company, Seven Arts moved into ownership & equity arrangements and that's where they got their money from. That was in late '66. Jack Warner hung on until the summer of 67 before giving up his position with the organisation.

The changes within the organisation take, I guess, months to filter down to all levels and it's not until the start of the following year, 1968, that we see the traditional yellow Loma labels being put out with the 'new' green label. The first Loma release that I've come across that is available on both yellow and green labels is Loma 2087 - from January 1968.

Hmmm - interesting, so presumably we could even see a green copy of the above Bobby Reed 45? (2089)

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Amsterdam Russ Veteran

Amsterdam Russ

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The apocryphal story goes that Mike Maitland (then president of WB) looked out of the window and saw a sign for a street named Loma. Nice, but somewhat corny and not necessarily true.

Press notices at the time more accurately report that it comes from a name WB had cleared for copyright and thus intended to use commercially. That name was Eloma.

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Amsterdam Russ Veteran

Amsterdam Russ

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Hmmm - interesting, so presumably we could even see a green copy of the above Bobby Reed 45? (2089)

Must admit I've not seen one yet. I think possibly the promos tell us whether the earlier of the 1968 releases in this transition phase came in both yellow and green labels.

If it's a new style Warner-7 label promo, then you can find issues on both yellow and green labels.

If it's an old style Loma label promo, then you won't find it on a green label, only yellow.

Loma 2088 (The Realistics - Brenda Brenda) comes on an old style Loma label, and I've never seen a Warner-7 version of it. The same goes for Loma 2089 - Bobby Reed.

As the scans here show, Linda Jones - Loma 2091 - comes on a Warner-7 promo, and is available on both the yellow and green labels.

That's all assumption on my part though, and I expect it's completely wrong.

Of Loma 2087 - The Implements - I've only seen one green label copy, and that looked as if it had been stuck on badly, much as you would expect with a shoddy bootleg. Promos are on the old style label??

If anyone has copies of Loma 2088 and 2089 - issue or promo - on the Warner-7 label, I'd love to see scans of them.

Edited by rigilbert
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Platters 81 Long Time

Platters 81

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ive always wondered what connection (if any) Loma had with this 45....g.gif

some additional info...Owes a lot to "Fever".....Dolores was associated with Johnny Otis Band/Revue...the orig release of this was on Ultrasonic (delta matrix 37808..so early 61.)..i guess the Elloma followed soon after...Loma is a street in LA........
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Guest TONY ROUNCE

Guest TONY ROUNCE

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embarrassingly this is the only Loma 45 I own sad.gif

Nothing to be embarrassed about there, Kris, it's a great record! I can remember seeing him singing it live on Simon Dee's TV show, just like it was yesterday in fact...

Loma's a terrific label with an incredible amount of deep soul classics right across its run e.g. Lukas Lollipop "Don't Hold On To Someone" and Carl Hall "You Don't Know Nothing About Love".

Of course, Loma is also the US home of "Gloria's Dream" and "People Let's Freak out" by the Belfast Gypsies, two of the greatest UK recordings of the 1960s...

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45cellar Veteran

45cellar

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BOB & EARL - EVERYBODY JERK - (Soundclip from Refosoul Archive)

U.S.A. Release Number Loma 2004. However, Unissued as far as we know.

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As time passes, nobody has come forward with a U.S.A. Loma, possibly only ever released in the U.K. & Germany.

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Kris Holmes Veteran

Kris Holmes

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Nothing to be embarrassed about there, Kris, it's a great record! I can remember seeing him singing it live on Simon Dee's TV show, just like it was yesterday in fact...

Loma's a terrific label with an incredible amount of deep soul classics right across its run e.g. Lukas Lollipop "Don't Hold On To Someone" and Carl Hall "You Don't Know Nothing About Love".

Of course, Loma is also the US home of "Gloria's Dream" and "People Let's Freak out" by the Belfast Gypsies, two of the greatest UK recordings of the 1960s...

yeah good record, no embarrassment there, I was more embarrassed that the label is one I haven't bothered hunting down too much on. I think there are a few in the thread which I need to cop sooner instead of later yes.gif

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Kris Holmes Veteran

Kris Holmes

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Don't know about rarest but according to the interwebs in descending order of price it goes something like this:

Larry Laster

Linda Jones

Charles Thomas

Soul Shakers

Ben Aiken

Kell Osborne

Delilah Kennebreuw

Bobby Reed

Carl Hall

Marvellos

John Wonderling

Apollas

James Cotton

Ike & Tina

Mighty Hannibal

Lucky Carmichael

Belfast Gipsies

Voice Box

Teen Turbans

Tony Amaro

Olympics

Romeos

Jammers

Cornel Gunther (is this the same label?)

Not sure how closely price relates to rarity in this case? Anything so obscure it's missing from this list? Are some of these just in demand & not actually rare?

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Guest TONY ROUNCE

Guest TONY ROUNCE

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Don't know about rarest but according to the interwebs in descending order of price it goes something like this:

Larry Laster

Linda Jones

Charles Thomas

Soul Shakers

Ben Aiken

Kell Osborne

Delilah Kennebreuw

Bobby Reed

Carl Hall

Marvellos

John Wonderling

Apollas

James Cotton

Ike & Tina

Mighty Hannibal

Lucky Carmichael

Belfast Gipsies

Voice Box

Teen Turbans

Tony Amaro

Olympics

Romeos

Jammers

Cornel Gunther (is this the same label?)

Are some of these just in demand & not actually rare?

...I would say that's about right for most of these. For my money John Wonderling 'Midway Down' is far rarer than any of the 10 that are above it in the list, all of which turn up with a steady regularity ( I own 9 of 'em, so they can't be THAT rare!laugh.gif ).

I have never actually seen or heard Mr. Wonderling, but have long pursued this, the last release on the label. I would imagine that ,when it does turn up, it goes for a fraction of the price of Larry Laster, despite being much rarer in terms of 'number of copies in circulartion'...

The Cornel Gunter records comes from the 1950s and from a different Loma label.

Edited by TONY ROUNCE
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George G Long Time

George G

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...I would say that's about right for most of these. For my money John Wonderling 'Midway Down' is far rarer than any of the 10 that are above it in the list, all of which turn up with a steady regularity ( I own 9 of 'em, so they can't be THAT rare!laugh.gif ).

I have never actually see or heard Mr. Wonderling, but have long pursued this, the last release on the label. I would imagine that ,when it does turn up, it goes for a fraction of the price of Larry Laster, despite being much rarer in terms of 'number of copies in circulartion'...

The Cornel Gunter records comes from the 1950s and from a different Loma label.

I've found a couple copies of John Wonderling. It's a 'mod psych' sound - the song Midway Down is the original of the song recorded by the Creation. Goes for $50 IIRC. It also came out on Warner Bros, I guess they decided to fold Loma and try it again on the parent label. There is a green issue on Loma if you really want to get obscure.....

- george

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Guest TONY ROUNCE

Guest TONY ROUNCE

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I've found a couple copies of John Wonderling. It's a 'mod psych' sound - the song Midway Down is the original of the song recorded by the Creation. Goes for $50 IIRC. It also came out on Warner Bros, I guess they decided to fold Loma and try it again on the parent label. There is a green issue on Loma if you really want to get obscure.....

- george

I'd guessed that it was the same as the Creation song, George, but thanks for confirming.

Sounds even more desirable now! yes.gif

Edited by TONY ROUNCE
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Amsterdam Russ Veteran

Amsterdam Russ

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The John Wonderling 45 comes up on Gemm/eBay a couple of times a year. Probably seen three in the last 18 months. 'Man of Straw' also featured on his 1973 Lp 'Daybreaks'. Earlier this year I was contacted by Carey Allane, aka Carey Budnick, one of the co-writers, who was complaining quite bitterly that he'd never received a penny in royalties from the song.

For anyone that's interested, there are short soundclips of both sides on my site: Loma 2106: John Wonderling

Thanks for putting together the 'Top 10' list, Kris. I'm not surprised to see Larry Laster at the top of that list, yet it amazes me that people pay so much for it. It pops up on eBay almost weekly and is by no means 'rare'. Likewise Loma 2091 - Linda Jones. James Cotton's 45 is much harder to find than either, but when it comes up for sale it's price never reflects its obscurity.

As for The Soul Shakers - I'm getting weaker - well, there's another one that's always readily available as a promo, but sooo much harder to find as an issue. Much the same story with Delilah Kennebruew.

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jocko Veteran

jocko

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Brilliant listings guys, special nod to Mr Rimmers absolutely essential SKM site now, often my first port of call for all things discographical! :sweatingbullets:

I am pretty sure I put loads more in Refosoul on my gardening leave period, oh how I could do with that time again, will have a look tonight and put some more in,

I was down to about 8 numbers missing until recently when I sold a few, I started off only with soul stuff but then with the birth of the internet the non soul became more available to me and bought some of them, anyone want to buy some truly awful but totally collectable Belfast Gypsy, Reb Foster, Sandy Layne or Butch Engle records if I still have them!! Finally agreeing with people on the Bob & Earl scenario made me give up the ghost, although I did think someone had a US WB copy no? Remember the brilliant feature in Dave Moore's Theres That Beat, which you should all own, and if you don't why not!

Interesting insights on this label here guys, as you say chock full of quality and great soul records, as well as some real top of the tree Northern stuff.

Well, I might not have the last record on the label, but I do have the first!:

And a fantastic record it is too Tony, real atmospheric record played out loud. I used to have this covered up in the 80's, obviously never playing at venues where wise old sods like you would have outed me on first play! :sweatingbullets::sweatingbullets:

Don't know about rarest but according to the interwebs in descending order of price it goes something like this:

Larry Laster

Linda Jones

Charles Thomas

Soul Shakers

Ben Aiken

Kell Osborne

Delilah Kennebreuw

Bobby Reed

Carl Hall

Marvellos

John Wonderling

Apollas

James Cotton

Ike & Tina

Mighty Hannibal

Lucky Carmichael

Belfast Gipsies

Voice Box

Teen Turbans

Tony Amaro

Olympics

Romeos

Jammers

Cornel Gunther (is this the same label?)

Not sure how closely price relates to rarity in this case? Anything so obscure it's missing from this list? Are some of these just in demand & not actually rare?

Very interesting list but given the top 10 all having particular Northern interest, and very rightly so, not that surprising. I had never seen a James Cotton or Lucky Carmichael that I can remember to be honest, the Paul Days took me a while but it was only late 80's I actually found it was Northern so may not have been looking that closely but I would have to say the hardest of all the ones I had was the Walter Foster which I only recently got for a decent price, Craig Moerer did turn up one from my wants list but he wanted $100 which I decided to wait, got one cheapare but it has a pressing fault by the sounds of it.

I also have a Redd Fox EP type thing that I notice is not on Dave's list, will put details and scan up tonight.

...I would say that's about right for most of these. For my money John Wonderling 'Midway Down' is far rarer than any of the 10 that are above it in the list, all of which turn up with a steady regularity ( I own 9 of 'em, so they can't be THAT rare!laugh.gif ).

I have never actually seen or heard Mr. Wonderling, but have long pursued this, the last release on the label. I would imagine that ,when it does turn up, it goes for a fraction of the price of Larry Laster, despite being much rarer in terms of 'number of copies in circulartion'...

The Cornel Gunter records comes from the 1950s and from a different Loma label.

Pretty sure I have 2 John Wonderlings Tony, if so you can have one, as had them since the 80's, think I have an issue and a demo so will check when I get home, you can offer me a lifetime supply of Kent CD's or if thats a bit cheeky you can promise always to agree with me in future in return, you can decide which is highest price. :sweatingbullets:

Only thing is can't remember condition, lots of the early ones I got I found in the states in buckets so not always great nick.

I'll put full sound clips up of both sides tonight.

The John Wonderling 45 comes up on Gemm/eBay a couple of times a year. Probably seen three in the last 18 months. 'Man of Straw' also featured on his 1973 Lp 'Daybreaks'. Earlier this year I was contacted by Carey Allane, aka Carey Budnick, one of the co-writers, who was complaining quite bitterly that he'd never received a penny in royalties from the song.

For anyone that's interested, there are short soundclips of both sides on my site: Loma 2106: John Wonderling

Thanks for putting together the 'Top 10' list, Kris. I'm not surprised to see Larry Laster at the top of that list, yet it amazes me that people pay so much for it. It pops up on eBay almost weekly and is by no means 'rare'. Likewise Loma 2091 - Linda Jones. James Cotton's 45 is much harder to find than either, but when it comes up for sale it's price never reflects its obscurity.

As for The Soul Shakers - I'm getting weaker - well, there's another one that's always readily available as a promo, but sooo much harder to find as an issue. Much the same story with Delilah Kennebruew.

Are you saying that John Wonderling has a Loma LP? I noticed Dave has updated sight for LP's and there are just the few I knew about.

Re the issue/demo thing that has always interested me, I have never seen issues of SS or DK now thinking about it to my knowledge, I did start collecting the issue where I already had the demo and vice versa but gave up half a dozen in of cheap ones when my senses suddenly returned!

Would it be right to say its not always the issue that is rarer, in some cases the demo is? Have you done any searching around on this? I always thought the Larry Laster demo was very rare but seem to remember somebody disputing this.

And finally for those people who don' see CD's as the devils work and care more about hearing the music than their rep in the bootleg world, a decent CD is available but still room for a top quality 100% winner CD based on the Loma vaults, over to you Mr R and Mr C.

https://www.amazon.com/Best-Loma-Records-1960s-Label/dp/B000002MT6

Edited by jocko
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John Reed Veteran

John Reed

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I also have a Redd Fox EP type thing that I notice is not on Dave's list, will put details and scan up tonight.

Can anyone give some history as to the Redd Foxx LP's? I know he was a comedian, but he's got the most LP releases on the label where's the link or was it a way of WB releasing his stuff on a minor subsidiary without it potentially tarnishing their lead brand?

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Amsterdam Russ Veteran

Amsterdam Russ

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Are you saying that John Wonderling has a Loma LP? I noticed Dave has updated sight for LP's and there are just the few I knew about.

No, the LP comes from 1973, and Loma shut its doors in '69.

Re the issue/demo thing that has always interested me, I have never seen issues of SS or DK now thinking about it to my knowledge... Would it be right to say its not always the issue that is rarer, in some cases the demo is? Have you done any searching around on this? I always thought the Larry Laster demo was very rare but seem to remember somebody disputing this.

I have both issue and promo copies of Delilah Kennebreuw, but just the promo of The Soul Shakers. Would love an issue though... As for Larry Laster, I personally think that the issue is harder to find that the promo. I see Pat Brady has one up for auction at present, which shows that it's demand that keeps the price higher than it should be. I have two issues, so maybe that just proves I'm wrong on those being harder to locate. Either way, it's not a tough one to find.

Many of the promos are much easier to find than the issues. This is particularly true for the non-soul stuff. It's not easy to find issues of Limey & The Yanks (2059), the second Belfast Gipsies release (2060), The Poor (2062), Kim Fowley (2064), or Butch Engle & The Styx (2065).

As for Redd Foxx, he is far and away the most successful act to come out on Loma and had four out of the seven LP's the label put out. His LP's have been reissued umpteen times over the years, in later years on WB, such was their demand. Look on eBay and you'll see loads of copies, all going for a couple of quid.

I agree that WB probably did want to keep Redd Foxx at arms length, and that is why he came out on Loma. Bill Cosby was with WB at the time, and was very successful, so at first glance you would have thought it natural for Fox to be on the same label.

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Edited by rigilbert
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