The State Of The Soul Scene Poll

[ImberBoy]

Just added this, no doubt a work in progress, feed back please

Edited April 26, 2010 by ImberBoy

[Guest aintgotit]

Just added this, no doubt a work in progress, feed back please

Pretty nifty bit of work that .

[NEV]

Just added this, no doubt a work in progress, feed back please

Simon ...it's a nice idea in principal but imho the majority of people who vote are people who care about the scene.

In a nutshell the way it's looking is as i expected and that's because the could'nt give a f**k about the scene brigade don't come on here and bother to vote

We have a venue in the N.east that has 600 people regularly attending and when the flyer goes up in events only the promotor and his side kicks bump it and guess what ...in lookbacks about 2 people post a comment

It knowingly clashes with other local events of the same music policy ,so sadly whatever result you get here ...won't make any difference or influence anything in the future

P.s reason for writing is because i feel you put this poll up as a direct result of last nights "allnighter " debate ,which went off on a tangent and ended up as a local venue debate

[Guest Matt Male]

Hmm if you think there isn't a problem with the scene the poll still forces you to choose a problem option, you need a neutral option with the too few and too many venues option. A bi-weekly option would be good as well.

Need more problem options, 'too many oldies nights' or 'stuff i don't know from when i were a kid gets played and i get scared and can't dance' etc...

I think a lot of people who only like traditional sounds are probably voting for 'I only go to venues with a music policy i like'.

Edited April 26, 2010 by Matt Male

[Ceejay]

Simon ...it's a nice idea in principal but imho the majority of people who vote are people who care about the scene.

In a nutshell the way it's looking is as i expected and that's because the could'nt give a f**k about the scene brigade don't come on here and bother to vote

We have a venue in the N.east that has 600 people regularly attending and when the flyer goes up in events only the promotor and his side kicks bump it and guess what ...in lookbacks about 2 people post a comment

It knowingly clashes with other local events of the same music policy ,so sadly whatever result you get here ...won't make any difference or influence anything in the future

P.s reason for writing is because i feel you put this poll up as a direct result of last nights "allnighter " debate ,which went off on a tangent and ended up as a local venue debate

Nev, Racking my brains here!!!

For the life of me I can't think which venue you mean, lol!!!

Caz from the Boro

[NEV]

Nev, Racking my brains here!!!

For the life of me I can't think which venue you mean, lol!!!

Caz from the Boro

Carol

Yeah ...you know ..i know, and so do a lot of people ,but in truth i did'nt name it because it's irrelavent ,it's merely an example of why the scene suffers like it does.

Ok the promotor can argue his venue is thriving with 600 people in,but at the cost of other venues in the area, that offer the same music policy and the same cheap beer!

Result being ,the old venue eventually calls it a day and his venue becomes the new version of the old one??? same people /different location so whats the point??

Am i bitter ??? no because i don't care for what's on offer ,i get what i want elsewhere and there are plenty of places about the country that offer what i want

I suppose at the end of the day people can choose to go where they like ,but if your local venue that you thoroughly enjoyed ,closed due to it being duplicated 15 miles away ,its a bit of shame

[Ceejay]

Carol

Yeah ...you know ..i know, and so do a lot of people ,but in truth i did'nt name it because it's irrelavent ,it's merely an example of why the scene suffers like it does.

Ok the promotor can argue his venue is thriving with 600 people in,but at the cost of other venues in the area, that offer the same music policy and the same cheap beer!

Result being ,the old venue eventually calls it a day and his venue becomes the new version of the old one??? same people /different location so whats the point??

Am i bitter ??? no because i don't care for what's on offer ,i get what i want elsewhere and there are plenty of places about the country that offer what i want

I suppose at the end of the day people can choose to go where they like ,but if your local venue that you thoroughly enjoyed ,closed due to it being duplicated 15 miles away ,its a bit of shame

Fair do's Nev!!! I don't care for it much either!!!

Might pass you on the motorway sometime soon!

Caz

[Guest wigan bob]

Just added this, no doubt a work in progress, feed back please

promoters should show respect to others who had there nites on first

[Mark Bicknell]

Forgive me for what I'm going to say now but please can I ask you to go and do something, step back from all this debate take a deep breath go to your record room, record collection, CD or MP3's or whatever and stick on a tune of your choice old, new, modern, crossover, two step, classic, unknown, R'n'B or whatever floats your boat and remind yourselves why you are on this scene in the first place....the music, the records which have no politics or opinion only people hold that.

Regards - Mark Bicknell.

[ImberBoy]

I think a lot of you are missing the point? I'm no expert at reading this kind of data but it looks so far that the swing from Labour to the Lib Dems in the North-East is 13%, in Yorkshire 11.5% and the North West 9.5. Compare this to the swing in the South East (5%) and London (7%). In Scotland there is very little sign of a Lib Dem advance, with the party on 25% compared to 23% at the last election

[Guest Matt Male]

Forgive me for what I'm going to say now but please can I ask you to go and do something, step back from all this debate take a deep breath go to your record room, record collection, CD or MP3's or whatever and stick on a tune of your choice old, new, modern, crossover, two step, classic, unknown, R'n'B or whatever floats your boat and remind yourselves why you are on this scene in the first place....the music, the records which have no politics or opinion only people hold that.

Regards - Mark Bicknell.

Without the scene though Mark, good or bad, the record room is where the music would stay, gathering dust. If it's not out being played, shared, enjoyed and danced to then what is it for? That's why it was recorded in the first place, surely?

I'll never understand people who prefer to sit at home alone and share their music with the cat.

Edited April 26, 2010 by Matt Male

[Ian Parker]

problems??? dont see any at the places we go to. full houses, great atmosphere, great people, great music

[Wiggyflat]

Without the scene though Mark, good or bad, the record room is where the music would stay, gathering dust. If it's not out being played, shared, enjoyed and danced to then what is it for? That's why it was recorded in the first place, surely?

I'll never understand people who prefer to sit at home alone and share their music with the cat.

My cat is getting a bit sick of hearing my sounds and is starting his own progressive soul night up with the rest of his feline friends.He complained that theres nowhere that plays the music he likes so he bought some tunes off e bay and he's booked the back room of the local pub.At least he will get to dj.

Edited April 26, 2010 by wiggyflat

[Guest Matt Male]

problems??? dont see any at the places we go to. full houses, great atmosphere, great people, great music

Agree totally Debbie. Too much doom and gloom. In my opinion it's better than it's ever been and most of the so-called 'problems' are things that have been around as long as i can remember. Let's enjoy it why it lasts.

[Tabs]

And if it wasn't for people attending venues, whatever there personal preference is for format and policy, we wouldn't be having this discussion.

There would be no scene.

Without the scene though Mark, good or bad, the record room is where the music would stay, gathering dust. If it's not out being played, shared, enjoyed and danced to then what is it for? That's why it was recorded in the first place, surely?

I'll never understand people who prefer to sit at home alone and share their music with the cat.

[Jumpinjoan]

No problems as far as I can see. Too many venues maybe but hey ho.

I enjoy myself as much now as I ever have done.

Like I said before maybe it isn't so much about the state of the scene as much as the people on it.

[Tony Foster]

To be perfectly honest the very fact that there is a poll will only bring more politics.

Just enjoy every minute of this wonderful music, less talking, more dancing.

[Jumpinjoan]

To be perfectly honest the very fact that there is a poll will only bring more politics.

Just enjoy every minute of this wonderful music, less talking, more dancing.

Not to mention the fact that soul source and the soul scene are two very different things. One virtual. One actual.

[Guest Mrs Simsy]

My cat is getting a bit sick of hearing my sounds and is starting his own progressive soul night up with the rest of his feline friends.He complained that theres nowhere that plays the music he likes so he bought some tunes off e bay and he's booked the back room of the local pub.At least he will get to dj.

There are always going to be politics because what would happen if everybody agreed on everything!

I'm of the opinion that only the good do's survive after too long anyway. I suspect the 100 Club, Lifeline, USOS, Va Va Voom et all will be going until the scenesters are finally carted off to homes & hopefully by then (and before all the original vinyl has worn out!) it'll be the people who are 20 & 30 something now guiding younger chicks & chaps through the wonderful world of soul.

[Mark Bicknell]

Without the scene though Mark, good or bad, the record room is where the music would stay, gathering dust. If it's not out being played, shared, enjoyed and danced to then what is it for? That's why it was recorded in the first place, surely?

I'll never understand people who prefer to sit at home alone and share their music with the cat.

You have missed my point totally, I simply meant maybe if people reminded themselves WHY they are on this scene in the first place and it has to be the music then perhaps all the opinion and politics would seem unimportant as the music should be king, nothing to do with sharing the music with the cat oh and without the music in the first place there would be no scene fact.

Regards - Mark Bicknell.

[Harry Crosby]

No problems as far as I can see. Too many venues maybe but hey ho.

I enjoy myself as much now as I ever have done.

Like I said before maybe it isn't so much about the state of the scene as much as the people on it.

Wise Words joan, sums it up for me anyway, as allways only my opinion H

[NEV]

You have missed my point totally, I simply meant maybe if people reminded themselves WHY they are on this scene in the first place and it has to be the music then perhaps all the opinion and politics would seem unimportant as the music should be king, nothing to do with sharing the music with the cat oh and without the music in the first place there would be no scene fact.

Regards - Mark Bicknell.

Mark if people are'nt gonna have debate on a forum we might as well just quit and keep the events calender and the sales and want's pages.

Its a democratic way of sorting out our differences ....the biggest problem is everytime someone wants to discuss something or try to get an understanding, the word "politics" get's thrown into the pot.

Whats politics got to do with it??

Does the state of the scene revolve around politics ??

[Mark Bicknell]

Mark if people are'nt gonna have debate on a forum we might as well just quit and keep the events calender and the sales and want's pages.

Its a democratic way of sorting out our differences ....the biggest problem is everytime someone wants to discuss something or try to get an understanding, the word "politics" get's thrown into the pot.

Whats politics got to do with it??

Does the state of the scene revolve around politics ??

Well judging by the threads and comments on here then yes scene politics seems to keep raising it's head, again my point was to simply remind ourselves why we do what we do with this music and Nev I would sooner listen to The Falcons, Volumes, Hesitations, Ascots etc. etc, than keep going over the same ground talking about it, I thought you would have understood my point that the music is the fundimental most important thing here,

Regards - Mark Bicknell.

[Guest Matt Male]

You have missed my point totally, I simply meant maybe if people reminded themselves WHY they are on this scene in the first place and it has to be the music then perhaps all the opinion and politics would seem unimportant as the music should be king, nothing to do with sharing the music with the cat oh and without the music in the first place there would be no scene fact.

Regards - Mark Bicknell.

Well the reason i got into it was because i went out and listened to it, so for me the two go hand in hand and always have. The music didn't come first for me, the scene was there i went out and listened to the music in that context and that's the way i've enjoyed it ever since. To be honest that last point you make is exactly the kind of sentiment i was answering in my first post and one i've heard you make on here before, it might be a fact but it's totally academic in my opinion.

[Guest Matt Male]

Well judging by the threads and comments on here then yes scene politics seems to keep raising it's head, again my point was to simply remind ourselves why we do what we do with this music and Nev I would sooner listen to The Falcons, Volumes, Hesitations, Ascots etc. etc, than keep going over the same ground talking about it, I thought you would have understood my point that the music is the fundimental most important thing here,

Regards - Mark Bicknell.

As i said, the scene and the music are the most important things to me. The music and the context in which i listen to it.

[Mark Bicknell]

Well the reason i got into it was because i went out and listened to it, so for me the two go hand in hand and always have. The music didn't come first for me, the scene was there i went out and listened to the music in that context and that's the way i've enjoyed it ever since. To be honest that last point you make is exactly the kind of sentiment i was answering in my first post and one i've heard you make on here before, it might be a fact but it's totally academic in my opinion.

Respect your comments and opinion as I hope you respect mine, guess I get the same emotion, passion and feeling from a good soul record if I'm alone or with others, as much as this music can be shared it can also be a very personal and private thing, like it's also been said before 'soul music it's a feeling' comes from within and all that, my opinion might be academic but again without the music!!!!!!!!

Regards - Mark Bicknell.

[Mark Bicknell]

As i said, the scene and the music are the most important things to me. The music and the context in which i listen to it.

Fair point, respect.

Regards - Mark Bicknell.

[Guest Matt Male]

Fair point, respect.

Regards - Mark Bicknell.

Cheers

[NEV]

Well judging by the threads and comments on here then yes scene politics seems to keep raising it's head, again my point was to simply remind ourselves why we do what we do with this music and Nev I would sooner listen to The Falcons, Volumes, Hesitations, Ascots etc. etc, than keep going over the same ground talking about it, I thought you would have understood my point that the music is the fundimental most important thing here,

Regards - Mark Bicknell.

Mark ,buddie ..im not having a go ...merely saying everytime someone wants a discussion about why this or that ....instead of being constructive ,the word politics gets chucked in.

Its an ugly word that seems to get people backs up, but in truth everything involves politics in one way or another .

People who say they hate the politics of the scene and then set up a venue and say " we don't have any politics,we just play oldies an it does'nt matter if it's a boot or not ,it's whats in the groove that counts,we just tell our dj's to play to the floor" am i the only person who thinks that's a contradiction

If your actively involved in the soul scene in anyway shape or form ..like it or not your involved in the politics in my book...what you do about it is upto you

[Mark Bicknell]

Mark ,buddie ..im not having a go ...merely saying everytime someone wants a discussion about why this or that ....instead of being constructive ,the word politics gets chucked in.

Its an ugly word that seems to get people backs up, but in truth everything involves politics in one way or another .

People who say they hate the politics of the scene and then set up a venue and say " we don't have any politics,we just play oldies an it does'nt matter if it's a boot or not ,it's whats in the groove that counts,we just tell our dj's to play to the floor" am i the only person who thinks that's a contradiction

If your actively involved in the soul scene in anyway shape or form ..like it or not your involved in the politics in my book...what you do about it is upto you

Just play another tune I reckon lol point taken...who you voting for by the way on May 6th? lol

Mark

Edited April 26, 2010 by Mark Bicknell

[NEV]

Just play another tune I reckon lol point taken...who you voting for by the way on May 6th? lol

Mark

Mark .....you should know better ..i don't discuss politics in public

Who i vote for is private ,between me and the mrs ..and she votes for whoever i tell her

I'm sick of hearing bloody soul records lately ...infact i'm as good as souled out until next week

[Wally Francis]

No problems as far as I can see. Too many venues maybe but hey ho.

I enjoy myself as much now as I ever have done.

Like I said before maybe it isn't so much about the state of the scene as much as the people on it.

Well said that woman.

I think it say's it all really.

Nice one Joan

[Maria O]

The poll does not work unless you answer every question, therefore one is made to answer the question of whether the problem is too many venues or too few venues - even if one doesn't vote that there is a problem in the question prior. Irrespective, the choice for diagnosis of any envisaged problem is likewise narrow (not something Dr House would admire)

Hence, my conclusion is that this poll is causing problems on the scene.

Boom boom ,

m

[Cunnie]

Just a couple of points.

1, Why is it every time topics like this get thrown up people always assume the whole Soul scene is in a mess just because the Northern scene is? The Northern scene is just a tiny bubble in the Soul scene.

2, It's not that there are too many venues, it's that there ain't enough punters going to the venues that are on. Stop taking the negative option & get off ya arses & support the nights that are on as you'll all be moaning when there's now't left.

[Guest]

Just a couple of points.

1, Why is it every time topics like this get thrown up people always assume the whole Soul scene is in a mess just because the Northern scene is? The Northern scene is just a tiny bubble in the Soul scene.

2, It's not that there are too many venues, it's that there ain't enough punters going to the venues that are on. Stop taking the negative option & get off ya arses & support the nights that are on as you'll all be moaning when there's now't left.

Well said Martin .

I had a conversation at a venue last weekend , when the person I was speaking to bemoaned the number of bodies in attendance at it ( which i thought was creditable ) , and the " familiarity " of the records being played ( again

creditable ) . I told them to stop whinging , and to ignore the fact that it was not packed to the rafters , and to give consideration that the music , if not to their taste , will be to someone who was in there , and just to be be grateful that someone had put the night on , as there may come a time when there are no nights like that .....

Malc Burton

Edited April 28, 2010 by Malc Burton

[ImberBoy]

I know that this is just Soul Source and I know that not every one will has voted but there is a 95.39% vote agreeing that there are too many venues.

I'm not too sure that denying that anything is wrong is also going to be constructive.

I'm not too convinced that asking people just to have a positive attitude is going to fix any thing?

As far as I can see there are 3 steps;

1. Agree that there is a problem or agree that there isn't a problem

2. Identify the problem

3. Look for solutions

If we are unable or unwilling to get passed step 1 then there is no point in continuing?

[Ritchieandrew]

I know that this is just Soul Source and I know that not every one will has voted but there is a 95.39% vote agreeing that there are too many venues.

I'm not too sure that denying that anything is wrong is also going to be constructive.

I'm not too convinced that asking people just to have a positive attitude is going to fix any thing?

As far as I can see there are 3 steps;

1. Agree that there is a problem or agree that there isn't a problem

2. Identify the problem

3. Look for solutions

If we are unable or unwilling to get passed step 1 then there is no point in continuing?

Nice thread, and a hard one to summarise, with regard to creating a 'fix.' As a former employee of a large White goods manufacturer (which has now ceased trading in the UK) we used a methodology to solve similar problems, this was called Six Sigma. The main thrust of this was D.M.A.I.C. (Define, Measure, Analyse, Improve, Control.) The Important part here being CONTROL. It's no good spending time "putting things right" if you don't put in control to stop it reverting back to how it was. As there's never been any CONTROL over the way things on the scene have gone previously, (autonomy) I can't see anything being done to stem the tide now. To me it's now a case of "Too many Chiefs, & not enough Indians" & "The Lunatics have taken over the Assylum."

Regards Ricardo.

[John Elias]

Nice thread, and a hard one to summarise, with regard to creating a 'fix.' As a former employee of a large White goods manufacturer (which has now ceased trading in the UK) we used a methodology to solve similar problems, this was called Six Sigma. The main thrust of this was D.M.A.I.C. (Define, Measure, Analyse, Improve, Control.) The Important part here being CONTROL. It's no good spending time "putting things right" if you don't put in control to stop it reverting back to how it was. As there's never been any CONTROL over the way things on the scene have gone previously, (autonomy) I can't see anything being done to stem the tide now. To me it's now a case of "Too many Chiefs, & not enough Indians" & "The Lunatics have taken over the Assylum."

Regards Ricardo.

Richard,comin' round your house right now wiv me white coat on

[John Elias]

excellent idea this but will only make sense if the majority of attendees are members on this site......... surely?

[Ritchieandrew]

Richard,comin' round your house right now wiv me white coat on

Hello John,

Good idea but I've got the Flu, see y'all soon (if Northern Soul survives the weekend.)

Ricardo.

[Davetay]

I was talking to a very well know member of our scene at a recent all-nighter.

He told me he was really bored with it all, seeing the same faces, talking the same bollacks week after week for 30+ years.

So I said to him the alternative of not doing it is far more boring.

Than he said you might be right.

The rare soul scene and the modern soul scene have both been hit by low numbers, yet the oldies do's are still packers.

Haven in the afternoon has started on sundays 200+ in every one so far 90%+ oldies.

Yet same town friday or saturday nights a do playing crossover and modern lucky to get 30 in.

Burnley was the same for Phil, lots of nights with low numbers, yet the oldies do's in Burnley packed.

It is the way the scene is far too many do's to go around, plus the cost of traveling.

Right last weekend I was really looking forward to Lifeline.

That went tits up cause I had abit of a accident. (don't ask)

So after listening to Derek Pearson and Angus Oldfield on the internet radio went to Soulful Dance.

The upside of not doing a nighter, had a nice sunday dinner.

We than went to Haven in the afternoon, lots of people there I knew that don't really go anywhere now.

More than one person said to me "I didn't know you were still around" or "Isn't it great here proper northern"

It was nice to see some of the old faces, but for what ever reason they only want to hear the same records that they danced to in the 70s.

Someone else asked me do I still go to King Georges, I told then no, before I could give them the reason why he told me "I know what you mean it to far to travel at our age" It's only 10 miles FFS. The reason I was gonna give him is that I only went for the modern room, and how it is full of townies etc.

There where a few young ones there (about eight) that do go to nighters, but nowhere near enough to keep the scene going when we have gone.

So all I can say is enjoy it while you can no matter what gene you are into.

Dave.

[Steve G]

I was talking to a very well know member of our scene at a recent all-nighter.

He told me he was really bored with it all, seeing the same faces, talking the same bollacks week after week for 30+ years.

So I said to him the alternative of not doing it is far more boring.

Than he said you might be right.

The rare soul scene and the modern soul scene have both been hit by low numbers, yet the oldies do's are still packers.

Haven in the afternoon has started on sundays 200+ in every one so far 90%+ oldies.

Yet same town friday or saturday nights a do playing crossover and modern lucky to get 30 in.

Burnley was the same for Phil, lots of nights with low numbers, yet the oldies do's in Burnley packed.

It is the way the scene is far too many do's to go around, plus the cost of traveling.

Right last weekend I was really looking forward to Lifeline.

That went tits up cause I had abit of a accident. (don't ask)

So after listening to Derek Pearson and Angus Oldfield on the internet radio went to Soulful Dance.

The upside of not doing a nighter, had a nice sunday dinner.

We than went to Haven in the afternoon, lots of people there I knew that don't really go anywhere now.

More than one person said to me "I didn't know you were still around" or "Isn't it great here proper northern"

It was nice to see some of the old faces, but for what ever reason they only want to hear the same records that they danced to in the 70s.

Someone else asked me do I still go to King Georges, I told then no, before I could give them the reason why he told me "I know what you mean it to far to travel at our age" It's only 10 miles FFS. The reason I was gonna give him is that I only went for the modern room, and how it is full of townies etc.

There where a few young ones there (about eight) that do go to nighters, but nowhere near enough to keep the scene going when we have gone.

So all I can say is enjoy it while you can no matter what gene you are into.

Dave.

____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Nice post Dave. So up your way the oldies events are still healthy. Then maybe the problem is not enough want to hear new sounds (of whatever genre / decade).

Down here it's generally unhealthy, and thankfully there isn't so much of an oldies scene per se - most of the venues have always been mixed. There are some pockets and some exceptions, but hey ho!

Enjoy it while we can!

[Garswood]

this thread has had 1870 views but only 157 people have voted, i think that says it all really, just enjoy the music guys and let the promoters argue amongst themselves, i would guess that most people reading this have thought," not this again" yawn yawn, this debate has been going on forever, my mum, who used to go to the wheel in the 60's till it ended in 70/71?, said the other day, "are they still going on about that", "why dont they just get over themselves and enjoy it".....cheers phil

[Davetay]

this debate has been going on forever, my mum, who used to go to the wheel in the 60's till it ended in 70/71?, said the other day, "are they still going on about that", "why dont they just get over themselves and enjoy it".....cheers phil

PMSL.

Edited April 28, 2010 by davetay

[ImberBoy]

this thread has had 1870 views but only 157 people have voted, i think that says it all really, just enjoy the music guys and let the promoters argue amongst themselves, i would guess that most people reading this have thought," not this again" yawn yawn, this debate has been going on forever, my mum, who used to go to the wheel in the 60's till it ended in 70/71?, said the other day, "are they still going on about that", "why dont they just get over themselves and enjoy it".....cheers phil

Can't argue with that

[Guest Nick Harrison]

"why dont they just get over themselves and enjoy it"

Because that was/will never be allowed nor is it acceptable to reason with certain divisional pocketed masked factions.

[ImberBoy]

1,920 Views

158 members have cast votes

45 Replies

With those sorts of statistics, I think it's fair to say that this poll has given us no answers?

[Guest Andy Kempster]

1,920 Views

158 members have cast votes

45 Replies

With those sorts of statistics, I think it's fair to say that this poll has given us no answers?

or in fact Simon it has answered your question in volumes

[Davetay]

or in fact Simon it has answered your question in volumes

Yes !!! it does whatever we say on here, nothing is gonna change.

So I and others have said what ever floats your boat get out and enjoy before it's gone or we are gone.

[Harry Crosby]

Yes !!! it does whatever we say on here, nothing is gonna change.

So I and others have said what ever floats your boat get out and enjoy before it's gone or we are gone.

NAIL ON THE HEAD, DAVE. after the last few months ive had losing some of my close/best friends, this is and will be forever mine & di`s take on it.

REGARDS HARRY