Allnighter Issues

[Mace]

But what is really sad about all of this debate is that me and others are soooo pissed off at getting slagged and slated for just wanting to hear what is after all northern soul, nothing else just northern.

Don't remember anyone slagging or slating you for wanting to hear northern soul/oldies etc?

If I remember correctly, you were the one who started slagging and slating venues because you didn't approve of their music poilcy.

Did you honestly expect no-one to react to your somewhat aggressive and insulting posts?

Its just so maddening that you cant or wont accept that the very reason we are having this very thread is not because of music policy really its because people are trying to get to understand why venues are failing and numbers are falling.......well there is your answer, get the music played back to mainly "oldies" and you will have your numbers back along with proper nighters.

This part is nonsense to be honest.

Do you seriously think all venues should play the same 'top 500' week in, week out?

I think a fair point to consider at this point is the 'Stables' venue that Lifeline use bi-monthly for their allnighters in the West Midlands.

On alternative months the venue is used by Blue Max and his team for oldies events.

Their attendance figures are nowhere near as successful as Lifelines.

Now considering that the West Midlands is a predominately 'oldies' favoured area, and that Max is well known and respected on the local scene.....how does that work then?

And how insulting is the term 'back along with proper nighters'

This is the reason you are getting such negative replies.

Probably best if you did stick to venues you know and love

[Guest Bearsy]

I got the answer

nighters finish at 3am

play only known and accepted records by the masses

make sure they are local to everyone

give peeps desperate to dj a chance even if you dont know what they play

ban all soul nights

and lets all give up

or just carry on with what to me is a fooking great ngiht/Nighter scene as it is

[hullsoul]

I can't help but think that some of you are just taking this all too much to heart and making it far too personal by reference to specific clubs and Dj's.

Getting back to the original thread a discussion on nighters and if the other smaller clubs are killing them ?

Whats killing them .... Old age it's as simple as that for me I just can't do it anymore .

I have just done a great weekender where i paced it to stay up until 2am friday and saturday plus did two dayers ( where i enjoyod the best of music ) then went to the mars Barr nighter last night where if I am being honest I was shot to pieces. I hit the brick wall at 10 pm ! having done close to 400 miles in the mix of it all.

I don't want to do drugs and my body can only do so much , I want to reach 65 with good health and I know if I supported "Nighters" that ain't gonna happen.

So I prefer soul nights and the more the better because then I have choice , and also I have a life for the next 6 days where I am sort of on the same planet as the rest of the world. I have a good job that I want to keep and family that are important to me too.

I think if you asked the soul supporting /attending population it would be as simple as that because those the do nighters are not this large crowd that you think they are anymore.

To me you need to accept thats its a small crowd now who has that need specifically.

If the survival of the Allnighter scene is so critical dj's would play for nothing thus reducing overheads so you could still get together and share what you love great underplayed soul music with a bunch of friends rather than a big crowd.

What is starting to happen in my view , more localised clubs , less travel, and shorter hours.

Money has a lot to do with it but I think health is becoming a stronger issue too, as we are getting older.

Another reason why I personally don't like Nighters....

The saddest sight for me is seeing a friend who had a great family behind him once and healthy a glow about him turn into the shadow of the person I knew who dances to fast music all night in another world blocking out reality because maybe the daytime is too painful or mundane to endure.

On the positive side .... DAYERS ! they are the future

I am sure my post will cause some controvasy .... but hey at least it's honest

Carms

Lots of valid points, some very personal some spot on. The one that surprised me was the way you just dismiss the nighter scene as if it was to fold tomorrow it wouldn't impact on your life? I know how passionate you are about your music & how giddy & excited you get when you hear something new that blows you away........a good share of those will have been broken on the nighter scene so are you willing to risk that with a shrug of your shoulders & a "So What"???

I was at Hotwax last night seeing a load of young kids (lots in there 20t's) having an absolute ball, it's the first time in a long while I thought the scene will survive over here after we are all long gone. But they aren't going to want a cozy little club night scene, they'll want something with a bit of kudos (as we did). So if we are thinking about leaving a legacy (we might not be thinking of leaving one I don't know???) we need to find away to keep the nighter scene moving forward.

Or I think we should keep nighters because I like them & I'll sulk if they stop

Cheers

Martyn

[Anais nin Carms]

Carms

Lots of valid points, some very personal some spot on. The one that surprised me was the way you just dismiss the nighter scene as if it was to fold tomorrow it wouldn't impact on your life? I know how passionate you are about your music & how giddy & excited you get when you hear something new that blows you away........a good share of those will have been broken on the nighter scene so are you willing to risk that with a shrug of your shoulders & a "So What"???

I was at Hotwax last night seeing a load of young kids (lots in there 20t's) having an absolute ball, it's the first time in a long while I thought the scene will survive over here after we are all long gone. But they aren't going to want a cozy little club night scene, they'll want something with a bit of kudos (as we did). So if we are thinking about leaving a legacy (we might not be thinking of leaving one I don't know???) we need to find away to keep the nighter scene moving forward.

Or I think we should keep nighters because I like them & I'll sulk if they stop

Cheers

Martyn

You sulk never ! I am not dismissing them , I would never tell anyone to stop doing anything , my point is it's a matter of choice for all individuals , we are not sheep than can be herded.

And who is the shepherd ?

I would like to hear sound breakers at soul nights ..why restrict them to allnighters ? I would also like to hear the underplayed at soul nights ( it doesn't have to be rare ) and I do beleive we are getting there .

I am so lucky in where I live I think the Manchester soul club scene is so vibrant and exciting at the moment. It's the best of times embracing the whole bag of old new and underplayed. They are pretty hot over them there hills too

BTW ....Why can't butch or others like him play at a soul night ?

We appear to impose so many restrictions in our souling today ?

[Anais nin Carms]

hi carms lovely to c u last night, really enjoyed reading ur post all nighters and drugs are not a killer in moderation it the stress between monday and friday and the life style we lead i personally believe to stay healthy u must be in harmony with ur mind and body billy

Nice to see you too Billy , hope the operation goes well and you are back to full picture pose soon.

[hullsoul]

So you love the sounds that have packed the floors from all our great clubs such as The Wheel,The Torch,Wigan,Yate,The Mecca & Stafford (not quite sure were your cut off point is for when the shit started)...............emmm I have one slight problem with your view & it is they were all clubs that played & broke new sounds. So if you had applied your rules in the past you wouldn't have any oldies to do your packed nighters with?

So if any new Stafford type 60t's are unearthed you'll have them to add to the oldies scene...........why what's wrong with the 60t's type tunes from Wigan or The Mecca.

Your point is very valid and yes bitd most if not all venues broke "new" tunes which today would now be classed as oldies, there in lies my point really.

To be able to do the above then a tune has to be good enough to the masses to begin with and i just dont here that with todays new unknowns being spun. Its not a case of in time it will grow on you like all new stuff generally needs a few listens before your ears get to like a tune.......it is never gonna happen with most (not all) of the plays.

Maybe we have reached the bottom of the barrel as far as class good old fashioned 60's northern dancers are concerned, yes we can always change the goal posts to include in the barrel gritty R n B or whatever you like really but you cannot tell me with a serious face that most of the new stuff today is what we would normally call northern soul as it aint.

But what is really sad about all of this debate is that me and others are soooo pissed off at getting slagged and slated for just wanting to hear what is after all northern soul, nothing else just northern. We are relentlessly being told to move on, give the tunes a chance, stop living in the past, well what do you think i/we have been doing, we have had no choice but to listen and give them a chance, but if it aint gonna do it for us now it never will.

Narrow minded? yes i am as far as my music is concerned, i dont want to "move on and progress" i was/am happy with the way it used to be. i.e going to any venue over a weekend with a rammed attendance knowing your gonna listen to class music, not leaving until the end, and not leaving with a sense of thinking WTF was that all about. Now if i am wrong and todays scene is all about going to venues knowing that there will be only a couple of hundred there at best, and that your only going to listen to a smattering of northern and then it will be because its deemed to be one of a few known originals and guess what i have it and you dont then to be quite honest you can shove it!! i will stick to my "nostalgia" nighters as one put it on here once.

Its just so maddening that you cant or wont accept that the very reason we are having this very thread is not because of music policy really its because people are trying to get to understand why venues are failing and numbers are falling.......well there is your answer, get the music played back to mainly "oldies" and you will have your numbers back along with proper nighters.

But hey, its all just my honest opinion, an opinion that i know will get slagged and slated, and to say i am not bothered would be a lie, of coarse i am bothered, been going 30 yrs and in all that time i dont think i have upset many if anybody and me thinks this will change the view in which people see me, then so be it.

The reason I answered your thread was the fact you called the music I was going out listening to most weekends "Shit", I didn't slag your part of the scene off. I can with a serious face tell you the new stuff is northern soul. I've enough time & miles in to have an informed position & some of the new stuff is as easily as good as the old stuff..........equally some of it is crap as some of the old stuff was crap.........don't forget there was crap stuff played in the old days as well. I think you are confusing personal choice with good or bad music??So if you've got all the music you need for night's you might as well turn up with a laptop with all the files on do away with the dj. As you say if you had to come into my world you would say "shove it" if I was having to join your world & travel the length of the country to hear sounds I loved when I 18/20 I'd be in your gang & say "shove it"

You are saying the only way forward is to go back but I want to keep the ethos that was drilled into me as a wet behind the ear young soulie by the older ones that you listen to new sounds & make up my own mind if I liked them or not, as one fades there's always a new on the horizon. I still get that feeling & you don't so that will always be a difference of opion between us with neither of us been right or wrong.

The attendance issue isn't just down to musical tastes it's many folded, this has come to light during this thread.If the scene was to stop finding new tunes I would retire disgracefully to my armchair & remote.

Cheers

Martyn

[Little-stevie]

I am enjoying this thread ansd many valid points...

Dazakin says that if we all got back to playing real classic oldies then all the venues would be full... No ammount of classic oldies could fill the ammount of soul events out there at the moment....

Like Mace says, you know what you want and are happy with that, what more can you want, i know what i like but can't find it all the time... You have an endless supply of classic oldies events every week, you are a luck man and should be happy...

The rest of us will travel through the desert looking for the oasis... I like my soul in many formats and realise its not for all, i aint found my heaven yet but had a few angels while looking

My search goes on...

Good to see Mr Dyson have some input here, a very well thought out post and of much interest to many i should think...

[Dazdakin]

Mace, i dont know you but i am thinking you run Bidds and are thinking that i am directly having a go at your style of event and if thats the case then your wrong, what i am sayin is i say it as i see it, and it is not aggressive as you put it and i dont deserve to get negative aggressive replys in response such as yours.

How dare you say to me that you think its best i stick to venues that play the music i like, sorry but i thought i was going to northern soul nighters.

You dont seem to respect anybody elses view unless it fits in with your "progressive across the board music" policy.........will someone please explain this term to me as i have no idea what it means.

[Dazdakin]

I got the answer

nighters finish at 3am

play only known and accepted records by the masses

make sure they are local to everyone

give peeps desperate to dj a chance even if you dont know what they play

ban all soul nights

and lets all give up

or just carry on with what to me is a fooking great ngiht/Nighter scene as it is

Hope you are all taking note on this, this is how to reply to someone without slagging them off and at the same time making light of the issue.........spot on mate!!

Really looking forward to having a chit chat with you at Rugby.........and eh!! KT fooking F!!

[Little-stevie]

Mace, i dont know you but i am thinking you run Bidds and are thinking that i am directly having a go at your style of event and if thats the case then your wrong, what i am sayin is i say it as i see it, and it is not aggressive as you put it and i dont deserve to get negative aggressive replys in response such as yours.

How dare you say to me that you think its best i stick to venues that play the music i like, sorry but i thought i was going to northern soul nighters.

You dont seem to respect anybody elses view unless it fits in with your "progressive across the board music" policy.........will someone please explain this term to me as i have no idea what it means.

maybe it means.. Not a classics northern all niter, something a little different...

There are some all niters you will love and others you will not, sometimes the flyer or feedback do give you the kind og feel with regards to the music and style.. You know what you like, just follow that rule and enjoy...

Leave the others to try and push something else, room for all i think....

Don't start the across the board stuff again , we have had plenty pages on that already...

[Little-stevie]

I got the answer

nighters finish at 3am

play only known and accepted records by the masses

make sure they are local to everyone

give peeps desperate to dj a chance even if you dont know what they play

ban all soul nights

and lets all give up

or just carry on with what to me is a fooking great ngiht/Nighter scene as it is

Hope you are all taking note on this, this is how to reply to someone without slagging them off and at the same time making light of the issue.........spot on mate!!

Really looking forward to having a chit chat with you at Rugby.........and eh!! KT fooking F!!

I am sure that You and Bearsy will get on fine... Just don't let him keep you in that other room.. Its full of the across the board lot... Satans children

[Mace]

Mace, i dont know you but i am thinking you run Bidds and are thinking that i am directly having a go at your style of event and if thats the case then your wrong, what i am sayin is i say it as i see it, and it is not aggressive as you put it and i dont deserve to get negative aggressive replys in response such as yours.

How dare you say to me that you think its best i stick to venues that play the music i like, sorry but i thought i was going to northern soul nighters.

You dont seem to respect anybody elses view unless it fits in with your "progressive across the board music" policy.........will someone please explain this term to me as i have no idea what it means.

Daz, you came onto this thread with the opening quote...

"Oh god this is so tempting to just join in this debate and once and for all say it like it really is and no not just in mho but most peoples opinion, just that most would sooner not upset the status quo whereas others (myself included) are so sick and tired and fooked off at being told that we should progress and actually listen to the new stuff........well we/i have and its shit!!"

You honestly don't think that's aggresive?, but you think that me suggesting you stick to going to oldies events, cus that's obviously your preference, is aggresive?

Your quote below certainly reads as though you prefer oldies......

"Narrow minded? yes i am as far as my music is concerned, i dont want to "move on and progress" i was/am happy with the way it used to be. i.e going to any venue over a weekend with a rammed attendance knowing your gonna listen to class music, not leaving until the end, and not leaving with a sense of thinking WTF was that all about. Now if i am wrong and todays scene is all about going to venues knowing that there will be only a couple of hundred there at best, and that your only going to listen to a smattering of northern and then it will be because its deemed to be one of a few known originals and guess what i have it and you dont then to be quite honest you can shove it!! i will stick to my "nostalgia" nighters as one put it on here once"

You say you want to say it how you see, but find it disrespectful for anybody else to say it as they see it?

How does that work then?

You also say, and I quote...

"You dont seem to respect anybody elses view unless it fits in with your "progressive across the board music" policy"

Sorry, but I have no idea what a "progressive across the board music" policy is...your words, not mine?

I certainly don't have any issues on you championing your preferred choice of music, but do have an issue when you say...

" listen to the new stuff........well we/i have and its shit"

That's not aggressive or disrespectful either then.....

Pot, kettle, black.......

As far as you thinking I've taken your post as a pop at my tastes or the Bidds promotion then you obviously don't know me.

I'm as thick skinned as a rhino.

I love many aspects of this scene.

My collection consists of plenty of big Northern Oldies as well as obscure soul / R&B / Latin etc etc etc

My tastes are extremely varied and my mind is very open to both old and new.

I'm no fan of 70s or crossover however....so I wouldn't go out of my way to attend an event that was obviously going to overloaded with that genre of music.

However, I do attend events where 70s & Crossover is played in equal doses to those genres that I prefer.

It matters not, nothing will ever be perfect.

I certainly don't come on here after such events complaining about what should and shouldn't have been played.

Your lookbacks of events do.

If you disagree then go back and read some of them.

You have since stated that all allnighters are failing because of playing too many tunes that you and the rest of the (silent) scene don't agree with, and that these events should play mainly oldies to regain their popularity and swell their attendance figures....again, your quote..

"people are trying to get to understand why venues are failing and numbers are falling.......well there is your answer, get the music played back to mainly "oldies" and you will have your numbers back along with proper nighters"

Can honestly tell me that you don't think that's disrespectful, especially the comment on 'proper nighters'

Respectfuly

Mace

Edited May 4, 2010 by Mace

[Guest WPaulVanDyk]

Isn't it nicer if all nighters had 2 rooms like one for Northern soul and one for Modern. Then we can choose where to go.

i like all soul music but prefer mostly oldies and for one if they play new stuff which is a 60's tune unhearthed then i would accept that.

[Guest]

I am enjoying this thread ansd many valid points...

Dazakin says that if we all got back to playing real classic oldies then all the venues would be full... No ammount of classic oldies could fill the ammount of soul events out there at the moment....

Like Mace says, you know what you want and are happy with that, what more can you want, i know what i like but can't find it all the time... You have an endless supply of classic oldies events every week, you are a luck man and should be happy...

The rest of us will travel through the desert looking for the oasis... I like my soul in many formats and realise its not for all, i aint found my heaven yet but had a few angels while looking

My search goes on...

Good to see Mr Dyson have some input here, a very well thought out post and of much interest to many i should think...

my gosh.............. after reading all this I am not going to venture out !

I love great classic northern soul oldies...............but I don't want to hear them all night !

I love forgotten / underplayed 45s but don't want to hear them put in a box either !

I love 60s RnB, Funk, Latin and Popcorn but I don't want to hear hours of only this at a nightclub.

So for me, It would seem that I am better off ignoring the soul, rnb, popcorn and mod scenes, and just collecting records for myself !

And this is what I do !

No politics in my front room.

I Just collect my fav 45s.

Its such a shame that the fans of soul music in recent times have all these problems.

Great music is Great music. People will always find it. In 100 years time, weather there is 1 copy of the 45 or 1000.

collect, listen and go out where you want to go.

Peace !

[Guest mooma]

my gosh.............. after reading all this I am not going to venture out !

I love great classic northern soul oldies...............but I don't want to hear them all night !

I love forgotten / underplayed 45s but don't want to hear them put in a box either !

I love 60s RnB, Funk, Latin and Popcorn but I don't want to hear hours of only this at a nightclub.

So for me, It would seem that I am better off ignoring the soul, rnb, popcorn and mod scenes, and just collecting records for myself !

And this is what I do !

No politics in my front room.

I Just collect my fav 45s.

Its such a shame that the fans of soul music in recent times have all these problems.

Great music is Great music. People will always find it. In 100 years time, weather there is 1 copy of the 45 or 1000.

collect, listen and go out where you want to go.

Peace !

and folk wonder why venues are not as full as they used to be!!!!! I for one can go where I like and when I like BUT if dont like the place I visit I stay away !!! Im 56 had over 43 years going places!!!! Back biting has always been a bug bear of mine so ENUFF!!! run the venue u organise as you wish and let the others do the same!!!!! the PUNTERS make the choice of wats available for their night and as the flyers advertise there are plenty to choose from!!!!!

I can run my own venue from my living room and its my choice of records and no1 can say a word !!!!!

sue

[Guest Phoenix8049]

I'm doing my very best to not get further involved in this thread, seems I have a habit of slightly annoying some people with some of my posts .

But I think Mace made a very relevant point in one of his posts that I've quoted below. Far too many people on here seem to think that a night advertised as 'Rare Soul' play nothing but undanceable obscurities with big price tags but that's a total misconception IMO. When I think of Rare soul I'm thinking rarely played soul which covers everything from great £5 cheapies to forgotten oldies, overlooked b sides, current in-demanders and unknown/semi-known stuff all the way to big money rarities but not over played, hammered oldies....like the way 'Northern Soul' nights used to be before they got stuck in the oldies only rut

I for one was under that misconception too.

I used to go to Stafford and not all but most stuff there they called rare soul was mid tempo.

I am not knocking Stafford cause in actual fact some of my all time favorite records were discovered there.

All uptempo of course.

When i see Rare soul on offer somewhere i usually give it a wide birth,thinking more of the same.

Maybe promotors ought to say more often in there Ads its up tempo stuff,because i have spoken to a few people who are under same misconception that i am.

I want to go somewhere to hear unknown Dancers and classic oldies,and more modern dancers too.

Am i asking for the moon on a stick.

Stu.

[Guest mooma]

I for one was under that misconception too.

I used to go to Stafford and not all but most stuff there they called rare soul was mid tempo.

I am not knocking Stafford cause in actual fact some of my all time favorite records were discovered there.

All uptempo of course.

When i see Rare soul on offer somewhere i usually give it a wide birth,thinking more of the same.

Maybe promotors ought to say more often in there Ads its up tempo stuff,because i have spoken to a few people who are under same misconception that i am.

I want to go somewhere to hear unknown Dancers and classic oldies,and more modern dancers too.

Am i asking for the moon on a stick.

Stu.

stu ur welcome to come to my living room venue (see above post) any time bring any sounds ya like its our choice play it if we dont like it sod it ???

ps cant promise you the moon on a stick but cusd run to a magnum ice lolly

sue

Edited May 4, 2010 by mooma

[Guest]

stu ur welcome to come to my living room venue (see above post) any time bring any sounds ya like its our choice play it if we dont like it sod it ???

ps cant promise you the moon on a stick but cusd run to a magnum ice lolly

sue

Thats the future for this scene ! living room venues !

you is a strange and seriously split group of mainly 60s music fans.

its all got a bit weird !

I often wonder what the artists would have made of all this nonsense !

Edited May 4, 2010 by mossy

[KevH]

Promoters are caught between a rock and a hard place.If they ad it as Rare,the oldies crowd turn their nose up.Ad it as oldies,it could well be a yawn for most.Modern - a (2)step too far again.

Best thing is don't pigeon hole the music.? Then you get folks complaining "What they play there?".So you end up with rare,crossover,modern,funk,2 step,trotalong nighters and nites.Genres,genres,genres.....

Back to the oldies vs rare issue at nighters.What iv'e noticed is that some "new" 60's are being played on the Oldies scene and are being instantly accepted.How does that work?.

"Stanky get funky" being an example.Suddenly its an oldies crowd anthem.Is it who plays it? Or cos it has relativley no history,so its easy to re-create as an oldie.?. Was short lived on the Rare scene.?

Don't understand Phoenix post re:Rare soul nights,and avoiding them cos you know what you're getting.It reads as at an Oldies nite you'd be pleasantly suprised at the playlists,but not at the rare nites.?

[Paul-s]

I agree it's healthy to debate and on the whole am on the same side as you and of course your enthusiasm is faultless,but the reality is we aren't in milan ,we're in the midlands which shouldn't matter but it does when it comes to the paying customer, this funk edged thing is all well and good but like i said before was nearly the death of lifeline the people voted with their feet... we had to get back at least to the 60's base and build from there which we have at the stables,the funk scene is no more is it ? apart from the collecting side ,did all these funk people flock to listen to our stuff at lifeline during leaner times when we did play more of it ? well no they didn't ,this don't mean we shouldn't play a bit more of it now ,but again reality time it's hard enough to introduce a northern winning unknown let alone a left field 70's/funk dancer ,again not the way it should be ! re chalky's words when he speaks he speaks for himself as it goes i know where he was coming from re the full hour of the funk edged stuff it probably would be too much for some ! from lifeline's view you're as good as your last night now if people go away feeling a little confused or unhappy then they may not come back ever...

re hearing butch,myself or any of the other jocks playing the same records as last time well -it's simple ...finding another unknown to replace the ravins, henry c ,bolita woods or whatever tune it is, now there are plenty of great tunes but not plenty of great tunes that no one else has which in essence is why we go to niters right ?

I wish i could wave a magic wand and everyone be into all the genres and styles on offer but it's difficult,Lifeline may not be perfect and probably not the best ,but i feel the niter scene can and will benefit from what it has to offer,certainly in the not too distant future....?

Yes , its not an envious task running a venue and my hat goes off to anyone who does Andy. Just to clarify, i dont want to hear an hour of any one genre, funk edge or otherwise and i think tunes like Grace, John Harris, Bernhard Calvin, Black Smoke Band, Sacred Four etc are not funk, they are soul with (for want of a better description that doesnt put people off) a funk edge. But, they are moving dancers feet and have a place on a scene that is into storming rare tunes. They are just not being given a chance at bigger venues. Wally is now and doing very well from what i see. Karl Heard links these type of tunes well with the northern crowd, as he is a dancer and his feet recognise their worth i think.

Having said that, your point about its hard enough breaking a new Northern tune, never mind a more leftfield sound is a good one and maybe a sad indightment on how narrow minded the scene has become with time, because there used to be hundreds of leftfield tunes played and tried. People used to listen first and reject or accept based on that! I feel that ability to listen first has sadly and slowly deserted the majority of punters. So i recognise your plight.

So, that leaves the important question..if, in your opinion, the tunes that UK punters want to hear have dried up, become very hard to find, what happens now? Are we stuck with what we have?

best Paul

[Julie Moore]

Come on people, don`t you think this has gone on far too long now ? or is it one of them debates what will go on for ever ?

Read the flyers, pick the nighter thats best for you but why not every now and then try something new

You might be suprised and enjoy it

I know i do

[KevH]

Come on people, don`t you think this has gone on far too long now ? or is it one of them debates what will go on for ever ?

Read the flyers, pick the nighter thats best for you but why not every now and then try something new

You might be suprised and enjoy it

I know i do

The voice of reason - peace, brothers and sisters.

[Guest Phoenix8049]

Promoters are caught between a rock and a hard place.If they ad it as Rare,the oldies crowd turn their nose up.Ad it as oldies,it could well be a yawn for most.Modern - a (2)step too far again.

Best thing is don't pigeon hole the music.? Then you get folks complaining "What they play there?".So you end up with rare,crossover,modern,funk,2 step,trotalong nighters and nites.Genres,genres,genres.....

Back to the oldies vs rare issue at nighters.What iv'e noticed is that some "new" 60's are being played on the Oldies scene and are being instantly accepted.How does that work?.

"Stanky get funky" being an example.Suddenly its an oldies crowd anthem.Is it who plays it? Or cos it has relativley no history,so its easy to re-create as an oldie.?. Was short lived on the Rare scene.?

Don't understand Phoenix post re:Rare soul nights,and avoiding them cos you know what you're getting.It reads as at an Oldies nite you'd be pleasantly suprised at the playlists,but not at the rare nites.?

I for one have always seen rare soul to be mid tempo.

Some very early almost doowop sounds.

Or deep soul sounds.

Not new unknown stompers or even underplayed oldies.

I am not critiscing it,cause some of it i have myself,

its just i like to go to venues and have a good dance.

and i cant dance to most of those mid tempo things.

I hope this does not sound like i am being piccy.

Stu.

[Julie Moore]

I for one have always seen rare soul to be mid tempo.

Some very early almost doowop sounds.

Or deep soul sounds.

Not new unknown stompers or even underplayed oldies.

I am not critiscing it,cause some of it i have myself,

its just i like to go to venues and have a good dance.

and i cant dance to most of those mid tempo things.

I hope this does not sound like i am being piccy.

Stu.

my dear Stu,

I think you need to join the dreaded and somewhat awful FACEBOOK just to hear some of the great choons being posted on there not for all the other shite thats on there just to see what all kinds of folk are posting up

Ive learn`t so much

[Sebastian]

I for one have always seen rare soul to be mid tempo.

Some very early almost doowop sounds.

Or deep soul sounds.

Not new unknown stompers or even underplayed oldies.

It seems like the word "rare" is taking on a new definition?

As far as I know if a record is "rare" then it simply means that there are few copies around of it.

It has got nothing to do with the tempo or style of a tune.

[Julie Moore]

stu ur welcome to come to my living room venue (see above post) any time bring any sounds ya like its our choice play it if we dont like it sod it ???

ps cant promise you the moon on a stick but cusd run to a magnum ice lolly

sue

I too can stay at home and have my own partyyyyyyyyyyyy but where is the fun in that ? isn`t sharing this wonderful thing called Soul Music what its all about

You lot are so lucky i only get out twice a month

Edited May 4, 2010 by julie moore

[Julie Moore]

It seems like the word "rare" is taking on a new definition?

As far as I know if a record is "rare" then it simply means that there are few copies around of it.

It has got nothing to do with the tempo or style of a tune.

Good point Sebastian i used to be daunted by the word "Rare"and stay well clear but when eventually pursuaded to visit said venue ,was shocked to find that i knew quite a lot what was being played and i was dancing to many moons ago

[Guest Phil Armstrong]

Hi Everyone,

Would it be an idea for everyone to be more chilled out and thankful that the scene is as strong and vibrant as it is after so many years with so many dedicated enthusiastic collectors/DJ's willing to pay vast sums for rare vinyl and entertain people with all music styles.

Its a hell of an ask to expect in a typical 10, 9, or 8 hour all - nighter to be a fan of every record played, most DJ's perform 1 hour spots, if one or even 2 Dj's play sounds not to your liking/taste in an 8 hour niter, shouldnt be an issue gives you time to view record sales, chat with other soul fans etc, 8 hours + of dancing to all your favourites would be too much for most and a breather evey now and again can be good.

Used to hate it when my bladder came knocking in the middle of a Searling or Soul Sam spot and I missed the 1st play of a gem, the odd hour with a DJ playing sounds not to your taste can be a good thing.

Cheers

Phil

[Paul-s]

Lifeline probably does have the balance right but is still hamstringed by the nostalgia crowd.

But where did it all go wrong? What happened to clubs full of people expecting to hear new or underplayed sounds every time they went out? What happened to the DJs leading the way? What happened to DJs like Keb playing a record five times in a row to an empty dancefloor because he believed in it? At the Stafford reunion he must have had a wry smile on his face when he played Tony Galla to a packed dancefloor 25 years later. I think he even said over the mic, '...last time i played this here no one danced'.

I still think the spirit of the early 80s post-Wigan was to hear stuff that hasn't been done to death week in week out, that was why i signed up. That spirit has been lost by a lot of people and betrayed by far more. What a f**king shame.

Spot on mate!Its all so languid and passive now...wheres the energy and passionate enthusiasm for music gone ? The pioneer spirit the astronautical soul seekers!

[Ady Croasdell]

Lifeline probably does have the balance right but is still hamstringed by the nostalgia crowd.

But where did it all go wrong? What happened to clubs full of people expecting to hear new or underplayed sounds every time they went out? What happened to the DJs leading the way? What happened to DJs like Keb playing a record five times in a row to an empty dancefloor because he believed in it? At the Stafford reunion he must have had a wry smile on his face when he played Tony Galla to a packed dancefloor 25 years later. I think he even said over the mic, '...last time i played this here no one danced'.

I still think the spirit of the early 80s post-Wigan was to hear stuff that hasn't been done to death week in week out, that was why i signed up. That spirit has been lost by a lot of people and betrayed by far more. What a f**king shame.

Spot on mate!Its all so languid and passive now...wheres the energy and passionate enthusiasm for music gone ? The pioneer spirit the astronautical soul seekers!

That pioneering spirit was admirable but if you weren't as fanatical about it, it could be hard-going. Stafford undoubtedly changed the face of Northern and inspired me to move the 100 Club forward, but there were some very dull uninspiring nights there with few attendees and little atmosphere. The DJs did play to themselves sometimes and many Stafford regulars will tell you that it wasn't as golden an era as it is being painted now. Similarly at the 100 Club, I once DJed the last spot solely to the bar staff.

I think we're in danger of championig a scene that didn't exist in the way it's being portrayed now.

Ady

[Dysonsoul]

That pioneering spirit was admirable but if you weren't as fanatical about it, it could be hard-going. Stafford undoubtedly changed the face of Northern and inspired me to move the 100 Club forward, but there were some very dull uninspiring nights there with few attendees and little atmosphere. The DJs did play to themselves sometimes and many Stafford regulars will tell you that it wasn't as golden an era as it is being painted now. Similarly at the 100 Club, I once DJed the last spot solely to the bar staff.

I think we're in danger of championig a scene that didn't exist in the way it's being portrayed now.

Ady

There is a lot of truth in that ,stafford was indeed very quiet more often than packed out ,it was ground breaking for sure.but times seem different now like i've mentioned before it's an illusion this upfront thing it always has been ( certainly with a venue that holds 2-300) ! only possible with a room of 30-50 people then you gotta get them 50 people to turn out,they're notoriously unreliable and fickle ! although i've always enjoyed that kind of environment and probably spent as much time in those nites than i have niters !

Also paul , as far as finding brand new discoveries is conserned (vinyl wise ) it is very tuff ,but re the amount of records the uk punters want - there are records certain dj's have in reserve ,it's the time scale involved in breaking them ,apart from say very special instant ones like willie tee -pay some dues or say wally coco (which i know you'v been playing).i guess this explains the repetetivenes of sets.

ady ,don't worry bout dj'in to the bar staff ,mick h does it nearly every time he's on...

julie, apologies but this does go on cos it is relevent and will in effect influence the more mainstream clubs a year or five down the line what venues like the 100 club ,LL play aswell as even the small backroom promotions....

[Julie Moore]

julie, apologies but this does go on cos it is relevent and will in effect influence the more mainstream clubs a year or five down the line what venues like the 100 club ,LL play aswell as even the small backroom promotions....

Edited May 4, 2010 by julie moore

[Guest Matt Male]

That pioneering spirit was admirable but if you weren't as fanatical about it, it could be hard-going. Stafford undoubtedly changed the face of Northern and inspired me to move the 100 Club forward, but there were some very dull uninspiring nights there with few attendees and little atmosphere. The DJs did play to themselves sometimes and many Stafford regulars will tell you that it wasn't as golden an era as it is being painted now. Similarly at the 100 Club, I once DJed the last spot solely to the bar staff.

I think we're in danger of championig a scene that didn't exist in the way it's being portrayed now.

Ady

You're right Ady, i can only remember Stafford full when live acts were on or at the anniversaries. You're right that we do look back with rose-tinted specs and the scene was very demanding at that time and i know for a fact many were driven away that might have stayed had it been social and less intense. My brain was so drug addled at the time it's a wonder i can remember anything at all. It was the 'idea' behind Stafford and the 100 Club and other places that was exciting i think, you didn't get the constant slagging off of anything outside the top 500 that you do thesedays. Maybe it's the fact we now have access to everyone's opinions that it's much more obvious.

I agree with all the other posts that say go out, have a good time, listen to what you like and don't go to clubs you don't enjoy. Absolutely, i agree 100%.

My only problem is with the people who tell me what i play is crap just because it's rarely heard at oldies nights, or that what i play out regularly isn't northern soul.

[Corbett80]

Reading the constant pulling apart of nights/sets/people in general and whining on forums all the time certainly puts a dampner on things. Hardly evokes excitement.

[Guest Andy Kempster]

i'm on a day off and have taken a bit of time to read through this thread.......

i say read through, got to page 6 and found myself losing the will to live frankly

surely its simple

know your scene

like the djs you like

and go to events ( i say events, whether that be nighters, nights or whatever)

and stop bitching about the rest

the creme will rise and everyone with be happy whatever their niche

[Paul-s]

Also paul , as far as finding brand new discoveries is conserned (vinyl wise ) it is very tuff ,but re the amount of records the uk punters want - there are records certain dj's have in reserve ,it's the time scale involved in breaking them ,apart from say very special instant ones like willie tee -pay some dues or say wally coco (which i know you'v been playing).i guess this explains the repetetivenes of sets.

Yes, i guess thats the score. just dreaming of Utopia where I get to hear new stuff all the time! Maybe have one Lifeline a year where its advertised as lesser known/new stuff and then people can't complain. Im sure it would still be very busy and then the ones (like me) who moan about wanting to hear the great tunes you have tucked away, would be happy....and you could, with impunity, try these out to a crowd who have gone knowing what the night is? (or is that a stupid dream?)

ady ,don't worry bout dj'in to the bar staff ,mick h does it nearly every time he's on...

and i enjoy his spots the most!ha!

[Dysonsoul]

Also paul , as far as finding brand new discoveries is conserned (vinyl wise ) it is very tuff ,but re the amount of records the uk punters want - there are records certain dj's have in reserve ,it's the time scale involved in breaking them ,apart from say very special instant ones like willie tee -pay some dues or say wally coco (which i know you'v been playing).i guess this explains the repetetivenes of sets.

Yes, i guess thats the score. just dreaming of Utopia where I get to hear new stuff all the time! Maybe have one Lifeline a year where its advertised as lesser known/new stuff and then people can't complain. Im sure it would still be very busy and then the ones (like me) who moan about wanting to hear the great tunes you have tucked away, would be happy....and you could, with impunity, try these out to a crowd who have gone knowing what the night is? (or is that a stupid dream?)

ady ,don't worry bout dj'in to the bar staff ,mick h does it nearly every time he's on...

and i enjoy his spots the most!ha!

Have put me thinking cap on and gonna try come up with something,taken all comments on board and working on some idea's...

Re mick h - twas only tongue in cheek ...

[Mark Bicknell]

Reading the constant pulling apart of nights/sets/people in general and whining on forums all the time certainly puts a dampner on things. Hardly evokes excitement.

Nail on head there mate and basically why I hardly go anywhere soul venue wise, think I went to three or four events last year and I've been to four this year since and including New Years Eve, there was a time when I was out every weekend had a full diary of DJ bookings still having the desire, passion and commitment for all things soulful, numerous reasons why I don't really bother anymore most of which have been covered throughout this thread, respect to everyone who is still keeping everything going and also respect to those and there are many who have basically said enough is enough, never say never and all that but please don't destroy the scene totally for the sake of all the people that still have the love and passion for a darn good soul record.

Regards - Mark Bicknell.

[Steve G]

Lifeline probably does have the balance right but is still hamstringed by the nostalgia crowd.

But where did it all go wrong? What happened to clubs full of people expecting to hear new or underplayed sounds every time they went out?

1976 The advent of Oldies niters.

What others have said is right you simply can't play new / unknown stuff all night at a Niter - sorry Paul S - it does not work these days. Best you can hope to do is mix some in with some oldies.

Same thing on the "70s / crossover scene" incidentally have noticed particularly more weekeders just becoming more and more like "anthem-fests" every year . Almost as hard to break new stuff on that scene these days.

Think for any allnighter to survive it has to play a blend of styles, not one style like a few have tried and not succeeded at.

[Paul-s]

1976 The advent of Oldies niters.

What others have said is right you simply can't play new / unknown stuff all night at a Niter - sorry Paul S - it does not work these days. Best you can hope to do is mix some in with some oldies.

Same thing on the "70s / crossover scene" incidentally have noticed particularly more weekeders just becoming more and more like "anthem-fests" every year . Almost as hard to break new stuff on that scene these days.

Think for any allnighter to survive it has to play a blend of styles, not one style like a few have tried and not succeeded at.

Thats not my quote Steve? I was using someone elses post (matt, i think?). But, of course you cannot have a whole night of unknowns, my complaint is that the last few nighters i went to it was a night of NO unknowns...and that isn't necessary, i dont think. YOU CAN , if its good, play new unknown stuff at a nighter (in moderation), thats how most tunes started off surely?

[Johnmcc]

Thats not my quote Steve? I was using someone elses post (matt, i think?). But, of course you cannot have a whole night of unknowns, my complaint is that the last few nighters i went to it was a night of NO unknowns

Last Lifeline - YES

Last 100 Club - YES

John

[Ian Dewhirst]

Reading the constant pulling apart of nights/sets/people in general and whining on forums all the time certainly puts a dampner on things. Hardly evokes excitement.

That's one of the problems with the UK in general. We're generally far too cynical and battle-weary to have fun any more after a lifetime of going to clubs and listening to years and years of music.

That's why I suspect the scene is much more vibrant abroad and probably skewers to a younger, more enthusiastic audience generally. It's certainly a massively refreshing change for me whenever I go abroad to an event. Elsewhere they seem more enthused and less willing to find fault with everything. Maybe they haven't been spoilt like us ay?

Ian D

[Little-stevie]

That's one of the problems with the UK in general. We're generally far too cynical and battle-weary to have fun any more after a lifetime of going to clubs and listening to years and years of music.

That's why I suspect the scene is much more vibrant abroad and probably skewers to a younger, more enthusiastic audience generally. It's certainly a massively refreshing change for me whenever I go abroad to an event. Elsewhere they seem more enthused and less willing to find fault with everything. Maybe they haven't been spoilt like us ay?

Ian D

thats the point indeed....

I have been going out to events on a regular basis since Jesus was a lad, too much really and some time off does re-charge... Freinds overseas in Ireland/ Spain/ Italy/ France/ Sweden etc etc, they have very few events and so they reallly look forward to them, not all the music is what each would want but there is enough in the night to keep most happy and they are among freinds... We have all these venues every week its crazy.. I know this is all niter title but the overall scene does affect what goes on at niters....

To be honest.... I aint too fussed about niters at all, if a soul night goes on to 3/4 am then its a winner for me, them last few hours at many niters ( not all ) just drag along as the hardcore keep it going.... I think 5/6 hours is plenty for me at an event, and many many folk think the same... I aint saying i don't like my niters, when we are all in the same zone at 6am in the morning and place is still buzzing then there is no better place.... Its just the dynamics have changed, its more booze now with all night bars, no ammount of powder from these chemists in China or any other place can still overide old age/ 15 pints and still get some onto the dancefloor on more than the odd occaison ... Just be realistic when putting on promotions and take all these factors on board.....

Me and my good lady are taking in less events and do like to have weekends free for other things in life, these free weekends help re-charge the battery and then look forward to the next event...

I am a pretty happy go lucky chap with regards to sounds i want to hear, i like a real cross section and would like to hear them all in one room, i know it aint what everyone wants but its what needed sometimes, i like the multi room events sometimes but would love to have all my mates in one room together at times ( not an easy task i know )...

Julie Moore and others did comment on thhis thread being negative??? well maybe it is from some but its a public forum and people have passion and that comes out in different ways.. As Mike says sometimes, if you don't like the way the threads going you can choose not to read it, plenty of other stuff going on... For every negative thread you will have many many more possitive, its just like the news headlines, the killer volcanoes, suicide bombers, celebs on rehab etc etc etc, this will always take the headline from Daisy getting a nice feed at the donkey sanctury .... Its never all doom and gloom, well not for most anyway.. There are some who would never be happy, you can't hope to change the Victor Meldrews brigade, you will find them in every walk of like on public forums/ in the work place/ family members etc etc..

And i say again that a bunch of people who are negative on any thread does not constitute the soul scene or soul source, we have 12,000 members or more, even 15 people looking at a suicide packed aint gonna impact that much....

Its still the vocal minority on these issues, i wish it was the silent majority who would add more and then we can get a true picture of whats on peoples minds... I know many mates who look at the threads but never post, i wish a few more would take part, sometimes the same voices again and again and again can wear a bit thin

Good to see the likes of Andy Dyson/ Ady and others are taking note of posts like this, they act on certain points and not on others, just like a good promoter should,,, They can never keep all the folk happy, victor meldrew will always be victor , just put him in a dark corner, slip something in his drink and give him a packet of crisps...

With regards to all niters... Can we have a list here to see what we are talking about...

100 club....

Lifeline....

Rubgby..

Radcliffe..

Gloucester..

Six Hills....

Stoke Kings Hall...

Bidds....

please add others to the list...

Then just look at the weekenders... i class these as all niters no matter what time they finish with regards to putting on promotions..

Thats the niters off the top of my head, not too many really but with the ammount of local and other soul events its a problem......

And thats before the weekenders???? at one time i only knew about about a few but now they are pretty regular... in the uk and overseas.... It only takes a few folk to go off to each of these events for it to have an effect on other events.. At one time you would not think of putting on a soul event the same weekend as Cleethorpes/ Prestatyn but as we get more and more weekenders who will go up against established soul nights/ niters, you have other promoters who think its open season to do the same...

The scene will be fine, it just needs some people with sense and some good promotions to sit down and smoke the peace pipe... then we can have a good proportion of quality events each year without clashing.... ME and many many many others aint asking for that every week, got other stuff to do in life as we get longer in the tooth...

Long time dead......

Long time dead....... xxx

[Corbett80]

"That's one of the problems with the UK in general. We're generally far too cynical and battle-weary to have fun any more after a lifetime of going to clubs and listening to years and years of music.

That's why I suspect the scene is much more vibrant abroad and probably skewers to a younger, more enthusiastic audience generally. It's certainly a massively refreshing change for me whenever I go abroad to an event. Elsewhere they seem more enthused and less willing to find fault with everything. Maybe they haven't been spoilt like us ay?"

Simply go onto youtube and have a look at the last daytime session at Bamberg.....amazing

[Julie Moore]

Julie Moore and others did comment on thhis thread being negative??? well maybe it is from some but its a public forum and people have passion and that comes out in different ways.. As Mike says sometimes, if you don't like the way the threads going you can choose not to read it, plenty of other stuff going on...

OH WELL THATS ME TOLD THEN

[Ian Dewhirst]

Simply go onto youtube and have a look at the last daytime session at Bamberg.....amazing

I believe ya! I was abroad myself last weekend and the atmosphere at the place I was at was phenomenal.........

Ian D

[Ian Dewhirst]

OH WELL THATS ME TOLD THEN

Yep. About time you got put in your place young lady!

Ian D

[Julie Moore]

Yep. About time you got put in your place young lady!

Ian D

[hullsoul]

That's one of the problems with the UK in general. We're generally far too cynical and battle-weary to have fun any more after a lifetime of going to clubs and listening to years and years of music.

That's why I suspect the scene is much more vibrant abroad and probably skewers to a younger, more enthusiastic audience generally. It's certainly a massively refreshing change for me whenever I go abroad to an event. Elsewhere they seem more enthused and less willing to find fault with everything. Maybe they haven't been spoilt like us ay?

Ian D

Ian

I was at Hotwax allnighter in Leeds on Sunday, the main rooms was oldies based & a bit flat but upstairs was the R n B room which was buzzing with loads of 20/30 somethings giving it loads. They were just out to have a good time, listening to some brilliant tunes It was the first time in awhile I'd thought the scene might survive in this country after us, they didn't seem to have the political baggage we do???? Made me feel we've lost a little of that spark.

Cheers

Martyn

Edited May 5, 2010 by hullsoul

[Little-stevie]

"That's one of the problems with the UK in general. We're generally far too cynical and battle-weary to have fun any more after a lifetime of going to clubs and listening to years and years of music.

That's why I suspect the scene is much more vibrant abroad and probably skewers to a younger, more enthusiastic audience generally. It's certainly a massively refreshing change for me whenever I go abroad to an event. Elsewhere they seem more enthused and less willing to find fault with everything. Maybe they haven't been spoilt like us ay?"

Simply go onto youtube and have a look at the last daytime session at Bamberg.....amazing

very good point mate...

I have the best experience at places like Spain/ Germany/ Sweden/Italy etc etc... its nice to get away and we do it more and more..... Promoters in the uk are gonna have to take that into account for sure as the £ is really picking up against the Euro again and we all get the map and diary out to plan trips.... Also less visitors now from overseas to our events as they have enough quality events in their own countries.....