Allnighter Issues

[Corbett80]

The conversation Dekka and I had that included the topics of Move On & Burnley wasn't anything to do with the 100 Club - or our enjoyment of it that night - only that it just happened to be the place we were at when we had the said conversation..

Fingers

[Johnmcc]

I was at Lifeline, Burnley, 100 Club and Move On and enjoyed them all.

(I missed the last Bidds as I was elsewhere but enjoyed the last one I was at.)

John

[Geeselad]

I totally agree with you Mace

It's time we all grew up and pulled together for each other,

cos I for one do not want to lose the nighter scene.

chalky, i do like lifeline, Ive been to the stables and even way back at sheridans.

Keep up the good work and lets all of us move forward and support each other

Said like a true Gent, its support we need to share, not division!

[Julie Moore]

Iv`e followed this thread from the start but sat back quietly not wanting to butt in

But now just thought I would add my twopenneth as one soulie to another

I agree with a lot that has all ready been said on this thread

Just my experience is and don`t forget guys and gals this is mvho

As I only get out to soul do`s allnighter twice a month and two annual weekenders its very awkward for me to pick where to go as there are so many class one`s around .

Ive been to most over the 30yrs ive been into my music ,

Ive done good old northern ones ....modern ones ......crossover ones, even took myself off to rarer ones .

But I think at the end of the day one should be able to go to which ever they want without being slagged of for choosing whats best for them.

So come on folks open your ears a bit more and stop putting yourselves into certain categories and stop trying to ram down people`s throats which is the best allnighter .

There is so much we all have yet to learn about this great northern scene

Well Iv`e had my 5 mins

regards Julie

[Chalky]

To be honest I don't think anyone has tried to tell anyone where they should go and what they should listen to, people are free to go where ever they want and listen to what they want, don't recall anyone saying otherwise. The topic is about the problems and issues around the scene today and the main issue that seems to re occur is that there are too many venues which are having a detrimental effect on the overall scene. three venues in one area on the same night splitting what could be a decent crowd in one venue for instance. The analogy that choice is good might work down the high street when you want a new shirt but choice in this case when 9 times out of 10 (song in there somewhere) there is no real choice is bad for a shrinking and ageing scene.

I think another thing that most agree on is promoters need to work together, will they though? What can be done, someone suggested some sort of alliance like the scooter scene has/had. Would that work on the soul scene, would promoters be prepared to put egos and self interest to one side for the greater good of the scene. Could a promoter stomach being told he could put a venue on in a certain area because one already being promoted? Could rival promoters get together and share the local scene, say one have a night one month, the other the following month so on and so on? I doubt it personally but its food for thought!

Maybe memberships are once again required to keep out those who have no other interest other than a late pint or three, maybe a Soul Club of Great Britain, or any membership from another club gets you in as long as there is some sort of affiliation, just like working mens clubs used to have? Or are promoters more interested in the extra few quid rather than the well being of their regulars?

[barney]

To be honest I don't think anyone has tried to tell anyone where they should go and what they should listen to, people are free to go where ever they want and listen to what they want, don't recall anyone saying otherwise. The topic is about the problems and issues around the scene today and the main issue that seems to re occur is that there are too many venues which are having a detrimental effect on the overall scene. three venues in one area on the same night splitting what could be a decent crowd in one venue for instance. The analogy that choice is good might work down the high street when you want a new shirt but choice in this case when 9 times out of 10 (song in there somewhere) there is no real choice is bad for a shrinking and ageing scene.

I think another thing that most agree on is promoters need to work together, will they though? What can be done, someone suggested some sort of alliance like the scooter scene has/had. Would that work on the soul scene, would promoters be prepared to put egos and self interest to one side for the greater good of the scene. Could a promoter stomach being told he could put a venue on in a certain area because one already being promoted? Could rival promoters get together and share the local scene, say one have a night one month, the other the following month so on and so on? I doubt it personally but its food for thought!

Maybe memberships are once again required to keep out those who have no other interest other than a late pint or three, maybe a Soul Club of Great Britain, or any membership from another club gets you in as long as there is some sort of affiliation, just like working mens clubs used to have? Or are promoters more interested in the extra few quid rather than the well being of their regulars?

great summary of the issues chalky and got to agree with you,, and the questions you pose are not easy to answer in some cases ,but maybe some promoters should examine their choice of dj,s and not always rely on the old pals act, and think hard and long about their venues and dates to avoid clashing with nearby promotions, difficult but not insurmountable,whats needed as you say is co-operation and an end to the bickering and fall outs , same with all of us less bad mouthing others choice of music and show more of a willingness to listen to all the different genres of the beautifull sounds,

if only we lived in a perfect world , but I think it can get better.and improve because most of us are genuinely good people,

cheers b

[Guest Matt Male]

To be honest I don't think anyone has tried to tell anyone where they should go and what they should listen to, people are free to go where ever they want and listen to what they want, don't recall anyone saying otherwise. The topic is about the problems and issues around the scene today and the main issue that seems to re occur is that there are too many venues which are having a detrimental effect on the overall scene. three venues in one area on the same night splitting what could be a decent crowd in one venue for instance. The analogy that choice is good might work down the high street when you want a new shirt but choice in this case when 9 times out of 10 (song in there somewhere) there is no real choice is bad for a shrinking and ageing scene.

I think another thing that most agree on is promoters need to work together, will they though? What can be done, someone suggested some sort of alliance like the scooter scene has/had. Would that work on the soul scene, would promoters be prepared to put egos and self interest to one side for the greater good of the scene. Could a promoter stomach being told he could put a venue on in a certain area because one already being promoted? Could rival promoters get together and share the local scene, say one have a night one month, the other the following month so on and so on? I doubt it personally but its food for thought!

Maybe memberships are once again required to keep out those who have no other interest other than a late pint or three, maybe a Soul Club of Great Britain, or any membership from another club gets you in as long as there is some sort of affiliation, just like working mens clubs used to have? Or are promoters more interested in the extra few quid rather than the well being of their regulars?

It's an interesting thought and something never tried on the northern scene. Maybe nationally an elected committee of the great and the good to negotiate between promotors, oversee everything that's going on and do things for the greater good of the scene as a whole rather than local self interest. Who would sign up though i wonder and accept a committee's ruling even if it was for the good of everyone? Who would be on the committee? Lots of sports, pastimes and hobbies have governing bodies but maybe the northern soul scene is just too different, plus there are many people into northern who would never know such a group existed most likely. Just thinking aloud.

[Julie Moore]

Well recently I was slagged off for opting to go to a local soul do ....Instead of one of the best allnighters on the planet according to some folks ,so if thats not being told I dont know what is

[Guest Phoenix8049]

It's an interesting thought and something never tried on the northern scene. Maybe nationally an elected committee of the great and the good to negotiate between promotors, oversee everything that's going on and do things for the greater good of the scene as a whole rather than local self interest. Who would sign up though i wonder and accept a committee's ruling even if it was for the good of everyone? Who would be on the committee? Lots of sports, pastimes and hobbies have governing bodies but maybe the northern soul scene is just too different, plus there are many people into northern who would never know such a group existed most likely. Just thinking aloud.

A commitee could work if say any breakaway group wanted to put on a venue without permission would be disqalified from advertising on here say and maybe not allowed to place flyers in venues run by the comittee.

that would practically make em a non starter.

I like the idea of a soul of Great Britain membership too.

Could unite us all a lot better knowing we all belong.

Stu.

[Guest JIM BARRY]

like julie i'v sat back and read all the threads on this delicate subject, my opinion is that a lot of the newer venues are really treading on established promoters toes, they thinkright i can't get on anywhere to d.j so fook it i'll start my own nite regardless of any other venue going on the same night in the same town, they ask their mates to d.j regardless how good or up to date their collections are.how do i know this ? cos i'v been there. who suffers ? answer every one, venue A had 150 regular punters until venue B opens then they lose say 40 to the new venue who only have 50 or 60 not enough to make it pay but hey presto there are 3 new djs on the scene. the other big problem for me is the practice of " if your djing at their nite or weekender you won't dj for me again". that is a bad attitude for any promoter to have , but it goes on. if a person really wants to get on tyhe dj ladder he should serve his or her time by going to many venues , letting the promoters know them tellthem about their collection etc. with a bit of luck they will be asked to guest for them, just a thought.

[ImberBoy]

The Northernsoul Guild

The Northernsoul Guild is a list of promoters who have promised to put the punters first and agree to avoid venue dates clashing in local areas. Local areas are defined as a ten mile radius.

The Northernsoul Guild is a purely voluntary list of promoters, any one showing The Northernsoul Guild badge of approval should feel proud that The Northernsoul fraternity is supporting their venue.

...........................

Would some thing like this fly?

[Guest Bearsy]

The Northernsoul Guild

The Northernsoul Guild is a list of promoters who have promised to put the punters first and agree to avoid venue dates clashing in local areas. Local areas are defined as a ten mile radius.

The Northernsoul Guild is a purely voluntary list of promoters, any one showing The Northernsoul Guild badge of approval should feel proud that The Northernsoul fraternity is supporting their venue.

...........................

Would some thing like this fly?

and at many venues the soul crowd couldnt give a shit about format the tunes are played on so why woulkd they give a shit about an alliance when many a promoter dont go anywhere other than their own event or their mates,

every night/nighter is an option to attend and nothing more than that, just chose where you go and just enjoy,

if a promoter really cares about their event then they would try to talk to any event that could have an effect on their event and i know the type of event im into that most of the promoters probably do try to work with other promoters but just as a good ol soulie i like a choice but would i want to be a promoter in todays cut throat scene

[Sean Hampsey]

What can be done, someone suggested some sort of alliance like the scooter scene has/had. Would that work on the soul scene, would promoters be prepared to put egos and self interest to one side for the greater good of the scene.

Has worked in the past, Chalky.

Early 80's, Steve Croft, Chris King (/Terry Sampson) and Dave Thorley, all individual promoters at the time, had an alliance whereby they agreed to not clash nighter dates etc.

I think it went under the heading of '3 Voices' or similar.

I vaguely remember going with Steve to Stafford to a meet, back in the days of Cleethorpes, Bradford, Warrington, Top Of The World etc.

It certainly worked for a while and allowed all these venues to flourish, as I recall.

Sean

[Chalky]

Has worked in the past, Chalky.

Early 80's, Steve Croft, Chris King (/Terry Sampson) and Dave Thorley, all individual promoters at the time, had an alliance whereby they agreed to not clash nighter dates etc.

I think it went under the heading of '3 Voices' or similar.

I vaguely remember going with Steve to Stafford to a meet, back in the days of Cleethorpes, Bradford, Warrington, Top Of The World etc.

It certainly worked for a while and allowed all these venues to flourish, as I recall.

Sean

I've a Three Voices membership somewhere I think Sean. I've also flyers for Soul Town and Three Voices, Top Dog and Three Voices, or something along those lines.

[Reg]

I've a Three Voices membership somewhere I think Sean. I've also flyers for Soul Town and Three Voices, Top Dog and Three Voices, or something along those lines.

ah 3 voices...pink and white membership;)

Sounds like a good idea to me:thumbsup:

[Guest Phoenix8049]

I've a Three Voices membership somewhere I think Sean. I've also flyers for Soul Town and Three Voices, Top Dog and Three Voices, or something along those lines.

Sounds like this could really work.

now all we need is someone all the promotors know and trust,

to get them all together.

Maybe you Chalky what do you think.

Stu

[Agentsmith]

great summary of the issues chalky and got to agree with you,, and the questions you pose are not easy to answer in some cases ,but maybe some promoters should examine their choice of dj,s and not always rely on the old pals act, and think hard and long about their venues and dates to avoid clashing with nearby promotions, difficult but not insurmountable,whats needed as you say is co-operation and an end to the bickering and fall outs , same with all of us less bad mouthing others choice of music and show more of a willingness to listen to all the different genres of the beautifull sounds,

if only we lived in a perfect world , but I think it can get better.and improve because most of us are genuinely good people,

cheers b

barney lad,

this is exactly the point ive been putting across but it appears there are plenty who want to ignore it....THERE ARE MORE GIGS BECAUSE MORE PEOPLE WANT TO DJ, CANT GET ON THE ONE'S THAT EXIST BECAUSE OF THE "OLD PALS ACT AND, AS I CALL IT WHITE COLLAR", WHICH IN OTHER WORDS IS SELFISHNESS, SO THEY START THEIR OWN NIGHT SO THEY CAN DJ....BUT INSTEAD OF BEING SELFISH THEY HAVE AN OPEN BOOK POLICY, WHERE ANYONE WHO ASKS, IS OFFERED A CHANCE AND IN RETURN THEY GET A GIG AT THE OTHER GUYS VENUE!!....cant everybody see?......THAT...IS THE WAY IT SHOULD WORK....OR IS EVERYBODY FOOKING BLIND!!!

are the people who run the rare soul nights, for instance, just asking djs who they know collect rare records to gig AND BE RESIDENTS or....are they just asking them...BECAUSE THEY KNOW THEM?......OLD PALS ACT EH??

if someone who you know, turns up at your gig and you know they collect records and you know they want to dj....STOP PUTTING THEM OFF WITH EXCUSES.....instead of waiting for them to ask you, suprise them and do the opposite....GET RID OF YOUR INHIBITIONS and ask them!!.

it may be the way to turn the scene round before it finally suffocates itself, which in most of YOUR opinions, it surely will do.

KEY WORDS ALL THE WAY THROUGH THIS THREAD:

TOO MANY RESIDENTS

OLD PALS ACT

SELFISHNESS

just as a timely reminder, one thing that hasnt been mentioned throughout this thread: MONEY the root of all evil, no-one's makin any....FUNNY NO-ONE'S BOUGHT THAT UP?

BUT THEN AGAIN, ISNT IT ABOUT SOUL MUSIC AT THE END OF THE DAY OR ARE A LOT OF PEOPLE WORRYING ABOUT HOW THE INFLUX OF GIGS IS AFFECTING PROFFITS. FORGET IT!...THER'S NO ROOM FOR PROFFITEERING IN THIS GAME EITHER its about the music and our love of it.

we all know this is a massive debate and many facets of it are continual bones of contention, but they will never be solved without complete openess.

rob.h

[ImberBoy]

and at many venues the soul crowd couldnt give a shit about format the tunes are played on so why woulkd they give a shit about an alliance when many a promoter dont go anywhere other than their own event or their mates,

every night/nighter is an option to attend and nothing more than that, just chose where you go and just enjoy,

if a promoter really cares about their event then they would try to talk to any event that could have an effect on their event and i know the type of event im into that most of the promoters probably do try to work with other promoters but just as a good ol soulie i like a choice but would i want to be a promoter in todays cut throat scene

How about two soul source "threads", one for nighters one for soul nights, the promoters can go on there and pledge that they are dedicated to the scene and that they will not promote venues that clash within a ten mile radius.

This way the promoter has "signed" up.

It would then be up to the punter to support those listed.

This way it would be silent with no silly committees and no finger pointing.

The "guild" system used by tradesmen is ancient and a good marker peg but it remains a choice giving the customer the ultimate freedom yet providing a high bar for tradesmen to aim for.

[ImberBoy]

I honestly don't think there is any thing wrong with The Allnighter Scene, we have superb Allnighters such as Lifeline, Bidds, The 100 Club, Keele, Stoke, and Barnsley, and there are other mega nighters on a very small list.

I think there is an oversubscription on the Soul Night Scene.

[Guest Bearsy]

I honestly don't think there is any thing wrong with The Allnighter Scene, we have superb Allnighters such as Lifeline, Bidds, The 100 Club, Keele, Stoke, and Barnsley, and there are other mega nighters on a very small list.

I think there is an oversubscription on the Soul Night Scene.

i agree Simon,

i still think that the nighter crowd is getting less and less and if like there was not long back 3 top nighters (100 Club,Rugby,Burnley) all on the same night it would have an adverse affect on numbers so to spread them all out if it was possible would be more benificial to everyone i thinks,

the scene is thriving for what i want out of it and numbers make no difference to me cos like i say as long as the tunes are good im a happy Bearsy, butlow numbers must be a worry for the promoter so anything to help avoid clashing can only be good for the nighter scene, Soul nights too many and too many sub standard but plenty of folk out there like their soul nights so something for everyone but there another thread

[ImberBoy]

I think there are some great promoters out there with real passion for the scene who are driven by the music.

Would any promoter agree to sign up for some think like this?

[Mace]

I think there are some great promoters out there with real passion for the scene who are driven by the music.

Would any promoter agree to sign up for some think like this?

Simon, most of the allnighter promoters have worked together to avoid clashes for the past few years.

Most of us do speak to each other about dates.

I say most, cus there will always be the odd one or two that doesn't give a flying fcuk.

Dave Rimmers annual allnighter planner in events has also been beneficial to reduce clashes. Though it is always inevitable that some clashes will happen.

Let's be honest, the odd clash between 2 nighters 150+ miles apart should not be a major issue.

We all acknowledge that most people are put off by travelling costs of late, so events so far apart won't attract large amounts of potential attendees from the other.

Also, most nighter promoters have realised that it's better to only have a max of 6 nighters a year. Not only does this reduce the lethargy of 'I can't be arsed this month, I'll go the next one', but obviously frees up some dates to reduce clashes.

The days of monthly allnighters are long gone imo.

The biggest issue by far (in my opinion) is the hang ups on different genres of music being played.

The number of regular nighter goers is reducing all the time (age being the main factor here), to alienate some of those who still want to attend by dismissing or being negative towards different genres is a bad move as far as I can see.

I'm not a fan of 70s, modern etc.......and although Bidds is predominately 60s orientated I have no issues with any of the DJs including such stuff in their sets.

I would personally prefer to see the rarer side of the scene flourish by evolving to accept different tastes, than die on it's knees to protect it's original ideals.

I know a good number on here will disagree with this point......but truthfully, how many of those are still regular diehard nighter goers?

Regards

Mace

Edited May 1, 2010 by Mace

[Tony Foster]

Simon, most of the allnighter promoters have worked together to avoid clashes for the past few years.

Most of us do speak to each other about dates.

I say most, cus there will always be the odd one or two that doesn't give a flying fcuk.

Dave Rimmers annual allnighter planner in events has also been beneficial to reduce clashes. Though it is always inevitable that some clashes will happen.

Let's be honest, the odd clash between 2 nighters 150+ miles apart should not be a major issue.

We all acknowledge that most people are put off by travelling costs of late, so events so far apart won't attract large amounts of potential attendees from the other.

Also, most nighter promoters have realised that it's better to only have a max of 6 nighters a year. Not only does this reduce the lethargy of 'I can't be arsed this month, I'll go the next one', but obviously frees up some dates to reduce clashes.

The days of monthly allnighters are long gone imo.

The biggest issue by far (in my opinion) is the hang ups on different genres of music being played.

The number of regular nighter goers is reducing all the time (age being the main factor here), to alienate some of those who still want to attend by dismissing or being negative towards different genres is a bad move as far as I can see.

I'm not a fan of 70s, modern etc.......and although Bidds is predominately 60s orientated I have no issues with any of the DJs including such stuff in their sets.

I would personally prefer to see the rarer side of the scene flourish by evolving to accept different tastes, than die on it's knees to protect it's original ideals.

I know a good number on here will disagree with this point......but truthfully, how many of those are still regular diehard nighter goers?

Regards

Mace

Totally agree with all the above, well said Mace

[ImberBoy]

Mace, I totally 100% agree with you mate.

I don't think there are many Nighters who clash and if they do the impact is negligible.

The Soul Nights are another matter and it is here that an agreed, gentlemanly, sensible, respectful method of operating is needed to stop these destructive patterns.

I invite any Soul night promoter to sign up or at least agree in principle to put the punter first.

[Guest WPaulVanDyk]

well Peterborough don't have them anymore. the last one was at the rugby club.

i would go to them if any on at least once a year but as for events that clash. how far does it have to be for them to clash. There was Skegness on other weekend and one in Peterborough was on one of the nights when the weekend was on. numbers was down as some would go to Skegness. seemed to me as if Skegness would appeal to local people and others wishing to go from elsewhere but Peterborough would be for our local crowd.

[hullsoul]

I honestly don't think there is any thing wrong with The Allnighter Scene, we have superb Allnighters such as Lifeline, Bidds, The 100 Club, Keele, Stoke, and Barnsley, and there are other mega nighters on a very small list.

I think there is an oversubscription on the Soul Night Scene.

Simon

I think you might have missed one of the longest running nighters that has carried the torch for up front music for 17 years..........yes you guessed it The Wilton!!

Cheers

Martyn

[Guest Phil Armstrong]

barney lad,

this is exactly the point ive been putting across but it appears there are plenty who want to ignore it....THERE ARE MORE GIGS BECAUSE MORE PEOPLE WANT TO DJ, CANT GET ON THE ONE'S THAT EXIST BECAUSE OF THE "OLD PALS ACT AND, AS I CALL IT WHITE COLLAR", WHICH IN OTHER WORDS IS SELFISHNESS, SO THEY START THEIR OWN NIGHT SO THEY CAN DJ....BUT INSTEAD OF BEING SELFISH THEY HAVE AN OPEN BOOK POLICY, WHERE ANYONE WHO ASKS, IS OFFERED A CHANCE AND IN RETURN THEY GET A GIG AT THE OTHER GUYS VENUE!!....cant everybody see?......THAT...IS THE WAY IT SHOULD WORK....OR IS EVERYBODY FOOKING BLIND!!!

are the people who run the rare soul nights, for instance, just asking djs who they know collect rare records to gig AND BE RESIDENTS or....are they just asking them...BECAUSE THEY KNOW THEM?......OLD PALS ACT EH??

if someone who you know, turns up at your gig and you know they collect records and you know they want to dj....STOP PUTTING THEM OFF WITH EXCUSES.....instead of waiting for them to ask you, suprise them and do the opposite....GET RID OF YOUR INHIBITIONS and ask them!!.

it may be the way to turn the scene round before it finally suffocates itself, which in most of YOUR opinions, it surely will do.

KEY WORDS ALL THE WAY THROUGH THIS THREAD:

TOO MANY RESIDENTS

OLD PALS ACT

SELFISHNESS

just as a timely reminder, one thing that hasnt been mentioned throughout this thread: MONEY the root of all evil, no-one's makin any....FUNNY NO-ONE'S BOUGHT THAT UP?

BUT THEN AGAIN, ISNT IT ABOUT SOUL MUSIC AT THE END OF THE DAY OR ARE A LOT OF PEOPLE WORRYING ABOUT HOW THE INFLUX OF GIGS IS AFFECTING PROFFITS. FORGET IT!...THER'S NO ROOM FOR PROFFITEERING IN THIS GAME EITHER its about the music and our love of it.

we all know this is a massive debate and many facets of it are continual bones of contention, but they will never be solved without complete openess.

rob.h

Hi Rob,

These are great points.

Do you or anyone know if there any ANY events that are promoted by people that arn't DJ's?

Cheers

Phil

[barney]

Hi Rob,

These are great points.

Do you or anyone know if there any ANY events that are promoted by people that arn't DJ's?

Cheers

Phil

think gary whatdoyoucallhim who is the okeh club promoter at keithley doesnt dj or if he does I have not seen or heard him.

cheers b

[barney]

think gary whatdoyoucallhim who is the okeh club promoter at keithley doesnt dj or if he does I have not seen or heard him.

cheers b

ps will add that he does spin a few cds at soul in the sun lol ,but so have I and it doesnt really count .

[Guest Bearsy]

Hi Rob,

These are great points.

Do you or anyone know if there any ANY events that are promoted by people that arn't DJ's?

Cheers

Phil

Rugby Allnighter

[Paul-s]

Interesting points since i last read this. An alliance of venues that blocks new ones out? Thought that was called a 'monopoly'?

The monopoly already exists amongs a crowd of self protecting 'guild' dj's or 'mates' (many names used on here). Thats why , i think, other venues have started. For instance, some promoters on here have declared that All 70's are shite or that they wont have funk influenced tunes at their venue (although they have been in venues since the early 70's!), so people (a growing number) are going to start their own nights to cater for that. Guess they will be known as 'scabs' by the guild!

[Agentsmith]

Hi Rob,

These are great points.

Do you or anyone know if there any ANY events that are promoted by people that arn't DJ's?

Cheers

Phil

cheers phil,

id suggest few,but as ive not travelled the length and breadth of this country to study it, i couldnt confirm it...perhaps it would be best, and in a similar manner to dave rimmers calender advising about all-nighters, everyone who persues this angle( being a promotor solely - not dj) could make these details relevant here, thus creating a list of who does what and more importantly what their dj policy is:

WHY THEY PREFER RESIDENTS

DO THEY NEED TO HAVE SO MANY RESIDENTS

DO THEY BELIEVE IN OPEN-HOUSE

DO THEY ONLY TRUST FRIENDS WHO DJ

DO THEY JUST PREFER DJS IN A LOCAL RADIUS

WILL THEY NOT TAKE A PERSON AT FACE VALUE WHO HAS A COLLECTION, WHO WANTS TO DJ, EVEN THOUGH THEY MAY NOT KNOW HIM

DOES THE COLLECTION HAVE TO BE OF A STRICTLY RARE QUALITY

HOW OFTEN DOES A PROSPECTIVE DJ HAVE TO ATTEND A VENUE BEFORE BEING OFFERED A SPOT

SHOULD A POTENTIAL DJ BE EXPECTED TO ATTEND REGULARLY BEFORE THEY ARE CONSIDERED

IS THERE ANY DISCRIMINATION AGAINST AGE YOUNG OR OLD

comments please

from my stand point i see too much favouritism, not enough freedom of expression AND THATS NOT THE RECORDS, ITS DJS BEING ALLOWED OPPORTUNITIES TO PLAY....ITS YOUR FACE FITTING, ITS YOUR DEMEANOUR, ITS YOUR PERSONALITY.

i like to see the big names on playlists, there are many held in high regard and they do have the records and personality to carry it off and they are also down to earth and in most cases are good friends.....but aren't there a lot who are playing at it, this is where the old pals act has arisen and from whence the frustration amongst the aspiring djs has grown...of course theyre not experienced promotors but they have no other course of action but to put on their own gig (weather it fails or not)...its their way of making a statement. the reality is, the unselfish dj/promotor who will give anyone a go is in a minority but they are out there.

THE IRONY IS, WITH SO MANY PROMOTORS ADVERTISING FOR YOU TO COME AND SUPPORT THEM, THEY'D BE TRIPPING OVER EACH OTHER IN DESPAIRATION TO GET YOU THROUGH THE DOOR...IN WHICH CASE...( LEGIT BLACKMAIL AT HAND) " I'LL COME TO YOUR GIG IF YOU OFFER ME A SPOT....WEATHER YOU KNOW ME FROM ADAM...BUT I WONT SUPPORT YOU REGULAR AND WATCH YOU SWALLOW MY HARD EARNED MONEY IF YOU DONT...YOU DIG?".

setting up more gigs will go on and on so long as selfishness riegns and there is lack of opportunity, a neverending vicious circle.

rob.h

[Mike]

cheers phil,

id suggest few,but as ive not travelled the length and breadth of this country to study it, i couldnt confirm it...perhaps it would be best, and in a similar manner to dave rimmers calender advising about all-nighters, everyone who persues this angle( being a promotor solely - not dj) could make these details relevant here, thus creating a list of who does what and more importantly what their dj policy is:

WHY THEY PREFER RESIDENTS

DO THEY NEED TO HAVE SO MANY RESIDENTS

DO THEY BELIEVE IN OPEN-HOUSE

DO THEY ONLY TRUST FRIENDS WHO DJ

DO THEY JUST PREFER DJS IN A LOCAL RADIUS

WILL THEY NOT TAKE A PERSON AT FACE VALUE WHO HAS A COLLECTION, WHO WANTS TO DJ, EVEN THOUGH THEY MAY NOT KNOW HIM

DOES THE COLLECTION HAVE TO BE OF A STRICTLY RARE QUALITY

HOW OFTEN DOES A PROSPECTIVE DJ HAVE TO ATTEND A VENUE BEFORE BEING OFFERED A SPOT

SHOULD A POTENTIAL DJ BE EXPECTED TO ATTEND REGULARLY BEFORE THEY ARE CONSIDERED

IS THERE ANY DISCRIMINATION AGAINST AGE YOUNG OR OLD

comments please

you seriously expecting people to fill in the above

what are you on ?

[Johnmcc]

Rob,

Do you work for the council?

John

[Agentsmith]

you seriously expecting people to fill in the above

what are you on ?

did i say anything about it being a moral obligation?,but people are free to search their consciences.

im on this planet....dont you think that some seriously aren't??....whats been expressed here is payback time for all these potential djs being ignored by the few who want to closet northern soul, playing it, biting the hand that feeds them and being pally with their 40 rota listed mates in their corner.

you wont stop the deluge of gigs until the one's who lord it over the scene stop being so blood minded and bloody selfish and give every dog his day.

rob.h

[Mike]

did i say anything about it being a moral obligation?,but people are free to search their consciences.

im on this planet....dont you think that some seriously aren't??....whats been expressed here is payback time for all these potential djs being ignored by the few who want to closet northern soul, playing it, biting the hand that feeds them and being pally with their 40 rota listed mates in their corner.

you wont stop the deluge of gigs until the one's who lord it over the scene stop being so blood minded and bloody selfish and give every dog his day.

rob.h

laughing here

you are serious!

why dont you go and build up a rep, go and do sets that make people want to book you

some of your posts on here read like someone trying to cop a sympathy f***

if you want a major dj spot then go and earn it be my advice

if you are that good then people be knocking on your door

if they are not then maybe , just maybe its cause you are not as good as you think

unless of course you are happy with someone throwing you a spot just cause they feel sorry for you

[Agentsmith]

Rob,

Do you work for the council?

John

hello mate,

no, but i delivered that road sign to staffs highways depot in penkridge....that'll confuse the truckers!!

rob.h

[Guest]

why dont you post a playlist of what you would play..then ppl will know if its worth booking you

moldie

[Wiggyflat]

Interesting points since i last read this. An alliance of venues that blocks new ones out? Thought that was called a 'monopoly'?

The monopoly already exists amongs a crowd of self protecting 'guild' dj's or 'mates' (many names used on here). Thats why , i think, other venues have started. For instance, some promoters on here have declared that All 70's are shite or that they wont have funk influenced tunes at their venue (although they have been in venues since the early 70's!), so people (a growing number) are going to start their own nights to cater for that. Guess they will be known as 'scabs' by the guild!

No I think thats called a Dictatorship!!. How about The National Union Of Rare Soul and the sub division The National Union Of Northern Soul. Will there be votes at AGM's in relation to what will be played at venues.This is the commitee.........Funk is scab music.Maybe there should be a Northern Soul Masons section and we could have dos on at Masonic Halls

Edited May 2, 2010 by wiggyflat

[Mace]

WHY THEY PREFER RESIDENTS

To fill the crappy time sets that guests don't want to do

DO THEY NEED TO HAVE SO MANY RESIDENTS

Only enough to fill the crappy time sets

DO THEY BELIEVE IN OPEN-HOUSE

Do you mean letting anyone have a chance at DJing ? Only if I think they have something different, of a decent quality, to offer.

DO THEY ONLY TRUST FRIENDS WHO DJ

Trust no-one (a valuable lesson I learned from XFiles)

DO THEY JUST PREFER DJS IN A LOCAL RADIUS

No

WILL THEY NOT TAKE A PERSON AT FACE VALUE WHO HAS A COLLECTION, WHO WANTS TO DJ, EVEN THOUGH THEY MAY NOT KNOW HIM

Again, it depends on what they have to offer

DOES THE COLLECTION HAVE TO BE OF A STRICTLY RARE QUALITY

Yes, though rare could be unknown or underplayed of minimal value.....it does not have to mean £1000+ ....so it depends on your definition of rare?

HOW OFTEN DOES A PROSPECTIVE DJ HAVE TO ATTEND A VENUE BEFORE BEING OFFERED A SPOT

None, if they can offer up something of a decent quality that is different from the norm

SHOULD A POTENTIAL DJ BE EXPECTED TO ATTEND REGULARLY BEFORE THEY ARE CONSIDERED

Same as above

IS THERE ANY DISCRIMINATION AGAINST AGE YOUNG OR OLD

Same as above

rob.h

Rob, virtually every post I've read of yours contains similar content, you come across as 'bitter' to say the least.

But I've answered your questions sooooo.........

Can I ask you a question or two?

If DJing is so important to you, why don't you put on an event and fill the sets with people you don't know who want to DJ.

(Basically put your money where your mouth is and see what reaction you get from the paying public)

It's great to 'champion the underdog' at somebody elses expense, but would you do it at your own?

If not, why not?

If you have done this before...did it succeed?

If so, let us know about it, is it still running?

If not, why do you think it failed?

Cheers

Mace

[Guest]

Rob, virtually every post I've read of yours contains similar content, you come across as 'bitter' to say the least.

But I've answered your questions sooooo.........

Can I ask you a question or two?

If DJing is so important to you, why don't you put on an event and fill the sets with people you don't know who want to DJ.

(Basically put your money where your mouth is and see what reaction you get from the paying public)

It's great to 'champion the underdog' at somebody elses expense, but would you do it at your own?

If not, why not?

If you have done this before...did it succeed?

If so, let us know about it, is it still running?

If not, why do you think it failed?

Cheers

Mace

great post mace

awaiting the reply

moldie

[Wiggyflat]

Rob, virtually every post I've read of yours contains similar content, you come across as 'bitter' to say the least.

But I've answered your questions sooooo.........

Can I ask you a question or two?

If DJing is so important to you, why don't you put on an event and fill the sets with people you don't know who want to DJ.

(Basically put your money where your mouth is and see what reaction you get from the paying public)

It's great to 'champion the underdog' at somebody elses expense, but would you do it at your own?

If not, why not?

If you have done this before...did it succeed?

If so, let us know about it, is it still running?

If not, why do you think it failed?

Cheers

Mace

Nobody in the last few posts mentioned .........THE PUNTERS DANCING......................or is that an old fashioned concept lost in this egotistical deejaying battle.People can play records but how many can create an atmosphere.The amount of times i've seen dj masturbation with their heads only going from the deck to the record box to the deck to their mates and back to the record box.Hey this one will impress the chinstrokers at the bar while poor dancing punter just gets pissed off.

[Mace]

Nobody in the last few posts mentioned .........THE PUNTERS DANCING......................or is that an old fashioned concept lost in this egotistical deejaying battle.People can play records but how many can create an atmosphere.The amount of times i've seen dj masturbation with their heads only going from the deck to the record box to the deck to their mates and back to the record box.Hey this one will impress the chinstrokers at the bar while poor dancing punter just gets pissed off.

You missed the quote about 'quality' from my post mate.

This scene was founded on playing obscure soul records that people will want to dance to.

What makes you think that is any different on the rarer side of the coin?

Why would a dancer not want to dance to a tune they don't know? Surely if the record is off a good quality then it deserves to be played/heard/danced to?

If it's good they will dance, if it's not they won't.

Plenty of the big known oldies of today probably cleared the floor the first few times they were played out.

Should they have been discarded, never to be heard again?

Or should DJs just play safe known records all the time?

[Wiggyflat]

laughing here

you are serious!

why dont you go and build up a rep, go and do sets that make people want to book you

some of your posts on here read like someone trying to cop a sympathy f***

if you want a major dj spot then go and earn it be my advice

if you are that good then people be knocking on your door

if they are not then maybe , just maybe its cause you are not as good as you think

unless of course you are happy with someone throwing you a spot just cause they feel sorry for you

Think he might start up his own soul night..................it's definately needed and I'm sure theres space for it.

[Wiggyflat]

You missed the quote about 'quality' from my post mate.

This scene was founded on playing obscure soul records that people will want to dance to.

What makes you think that is any different on the rarer side of the coin?

Why would a dancer not want to dance to a tune they don't know? Surely if the record is off a good quality then it deserves to be played/heard/danced to?

If it's good they will dance, if it's not they won't.

Plenty of the big known oldies of today probably cleared the floor the first few times they were played out.

Should they have been discarded, never to be heard again?

Or should DJs just play safe known records all the time?

It does seem to be that the "rare soul" sides don't capture the dancers as much as the older established tunes and people aren't playing new records in the same style as the older records. There's a definate divide between rare soul/northern soul. I will attend rare soul nights but I wont attend a rare soul allnighter.I can't risk being sat down for a few hours while deejays play political matrix games behind the decks and try to force educate me.Plus you don't get any seventies or funkier stuff.I will be honest and say that is one of the reasons I stopped going to the 100 Club 3am then......zzzzzzzzzzzz.I think a lot of it has to do with the Mod background a lot of the rare soul deejays have although Rob Messer is from a mod background but seems to get the northern angle every now and again.

Edited May 2, 2010 by wiggyflat

[Mace]

It does seem to be that the "rare soul" sides don't capture the dancers as much as the older established tunes and people aren't playing new records in the same style as the older records. There's a definate divide between rare soul/northern soul. I will attend rare soul nights but I wont attend a rare soul allnighter.I can't risk being sat down for a few hours while deejays play political matrix games behind the decks and try to force educate me.Plus you don't get any seventies or funkier stuff.I will be honest and say that is one of the reasons I stopped going to the 100 Club 3am then......zzzzzzzzzzzz.I think a lot of it has to do with the Mod background a lot of the rare soul deejays have although Rob Messer is from a mod background but seems to get the northern angle every now and again.

There is a divide between the rare and the oldies scenes.

A good 'unknown' record is still a good record though....and chances are it will pass through the rare scene onto the oldies scene and not the other way around.......so credit where credit's due.

I think you have probably reached the point now where you only want to hear stuff that you know, or is widely accepted on the scene.

Nowt wrong with that, but to insinuate those who want to hear more different stuff are chinstrokes or DJMasturbaters says more about you than them to be honest.

Also, I only know a few DJs on the Rare Soul scene that have evolved from the mod scene (and by this I presume you mean the 80s/90s Mod scene)

Are you referring to London/Southern based DJs ( Alan H, Chris Dale, Ady Lupton, Yann V etc?)

If that is the case, then that is only a small part of the rarer side of the scene (nationally) and results in a limited comparison to the scene on the whole?

Edited May 2, 2010 by Mace

[Wiggyflat]

There is a divide between the rare and the oldies scenes.

A good 'unknown' record is still a good record though....and chances are it will pass through the rare scene onto the oldies scene and not the other way around.......so credit where credit's due.

I think you have probably reached the point now where you only want to hear stuff that you know, or is widely accepted on the scene.

Nowt wrong with that, but to insinuate those who want to hear more different stuff are chinstrokes or DJMasturbaters says more about you than them to be honest.

Also, I only know a few DJs on the Rare Soul scene that have evolved from the mod scene (and by this I presume you mean the 80s/90s Mod scene)

Are you referring to London/Southern based DJs ( Alan H, Chris Dale, Ady Lupton, Yann V etc?)

If that is the case, then that is only a small part of the rarer side of the scene (nationally) and results in a limited comparison to the scene on the whole?

A good unknown record is still a good record though and it will pass through thev rare scene onto the oldies scene....... (so the rest is substandard stuff that's not good enough for the "oldies scene"????).Your'e wrong on the assumption that I only want to hear records that I know. I want to hear new stuff but good northern soul with a dance beat from the late sixties and seventies.You think that everyone on the northern scene wants to hear the same old same old.....I'm not interested in hearing mods/ex mods/whoever playing rare soul at an allnighter.They are limited to 1969.Their mod ideals get in the way of leaving their 1969 Tardis. I'm more in tune with the Northern Mod scene. which progressed after 69.Check this out

. Edited May 2, 2010 by wiggyflat

[Dave Rimmer]

A good unknown record is still a good record though and it will pass through thev rare scene onto the oldies scene....... (so the rest is substandard stuff that's not good enough for the "oldies scene"????).Your'e wrong on the assumption that I only want to hear records that I know. I want to hear new stuff but good northern soul with a dance beat from the late sixties and seventies.You think that everyone on the northern scene wants to hear the same old same old.....I'm not interested in hearing mods/ex mods/whoever playing rare soul at an allnighter.They are limited to 1969.Their mod ideals get in the way of leaving their 1969 Tardis. I'm more in tune with the Northern Mod scene. which progressed after 69.Check this out

.

I'm lost ? What's the point of the Youtube clip ? Are you saying you don't know Tobi legend, or are you saying you want records like Tobi legend, ie Played out oldies ?

[julia123]

Iv`e followed this thread from the start but sat back quietly not wanting to butt in

But now just thought I would add my twopenneth as one soulie to another

I agree with a lot that has all ready been said on this thread

Just my experience is and don`t forget guys and gals this is mvho

As I only get out to soul do`s allnighter twice a month and two annual weekenders its very awkward for me to pick where to go as there are so many class one`s around .

Ive been to most over the 30yrs ive been into my music ,

Ive done good old northern ones ....modern ones ......crossover ones, even took myself off to rarer ones .

But I think at the end of the day one should be able to go to which ever they want without being slagged of for choosing whats best for them.

So come on folks open your ears a bit more and stop putting yourselves into certain categories and stop trying to ram down people`s throats which is the best allnighter .

There is so much we all have yet to learn about this great northern scene

Well Iv`e had my 5 mins

regards Julie

[Guest Matt Male]

It does seem to be that the "rare soul" sides don't capture the dancers as much as the older established tunes and people aren't playing new records in the same style as the older records. There's a definate divide between rare soul/northern soul. I will attend rare soul nights but I wont attend a rare soul allnighter.I can't risk being sat down for a few hours while deejays play political matrix games behind the decks and try to force educate me.Plus you don't get any seventies or funkier stuff.I will be honest and say that is one of the reasons I stopped going to the 100 Club 3am then......zzzzzzzzzzzz.I think a lot of it has to do with the Mod background a lot of the rare soul deejays have although Rob Messer is from a mod background but seems to get the northern angle every now and again.

Sorry mate, but this is total nonsense. We play what might be considered 'rare soul' at Move On, pretty much everything we play is uptempo, a lot of it 60s and is as dancable as anything you will here at a classic oldies night. I've always been a dancer and i love dancing to Danny White - Natural Soul Borther, L.J. Reynolds - Intruder, Freddy Hill - Mr Lucky etc.. etc.. etc... In fact i can't think of anything we play that isn't an in your face dancer. Personally i would never play anything i couldn't dance to myself.

Also what's all this rubbish about being sat down for a few hours? If you're a regular dancer and you're sat down at our place, it's only because you have been tied to your chair, or you are one of these stupid arseholes who refuses to dances to anything they don't know. What do you mean you don't get any seventies of funkier stuff either at rare soul nights? We play plenty of both and we also had one of the best funk/soul sets i've ever heard from Paul Sadot a few months back.

From the sound of your post it doesn't sound like you've experienced what's on offer out there at present. If you come along to Move On i might even buy you a pint.

Lastly i am not a mod, never have been a mod and my background is 100% dyed in the wool northern scene.