Allnighter Issues

[Anais nin Carms]

Why do we have to have a set of rules ? and who writes them ?

I am all for a free soul community myself , you pays your money and make your choice , be it soul night or nighter.

If a clothes shop didn't open because there was another clothes shop three blocks down , we would have a pretty empty high street, dominated by he/she who has been there the longest.

I say stop winging about other do's opening near you ...and embrace variety and choice for the customer.

The one that delivers the right mix will always survive .

This isn't directed at anyone specifically BTW ... but there is really more to life than cribbing about too much choice ?

Edited April 28, 2010 by Carms

[Paul-s]

But soul nights are part of the issue whether you like it or not. Boomerang for instance has Butch on doing a two hour stint (hardly 70's/crossover either), many travel to Boomerang and similar events who also book top dj's and it does have an effect on the attendance at allnighters. The same for weekenders.

I, like everyone else, think Butch is (can be) an incredible DJ. But im sick (in UK) of hearing him playing the same old stuff at particular venues. So, if an opportunity arises to see him out of that context, with the freedom to play what he wants, ill make an effort to go....

If a venue books him and the punters dont give off the vibe that they are up for hearing what 'he' wants to play, where their tolerance for anything new is low, and another books him where the punters respect him and trust him enough to 'go for it', ill be going to the second. So its necessary and important that one particular venue doesn't monopolise and restrict a dj like Butch. Must be good for his own soul aswell to play different suff at different places.

[Paul Shirley]

Why do we have to have a set of rules ? and who writes them ?

I am all for a free soul community myself , you pays your money and make your choice , be it soul night or nighter.

If a clothes shop didn't open because there was another clothes shop three blocks down , we would have a pretty empty high street, dominated by he/she who has been there the longest.

I say stop winging about other do's opening near you ...and embrace variety and choice for the customer.

The one that delivers the right mix will always survive .

This isn't directed at anyone specifically BTW ... but there is really more to life than cribbing about too much choice ?

hang on a bit there are lots of people going around buying clothes every day lol hardly the same as people quing up to go to soul clubs and nighters bit of a diference there isnt there ?

evey one has there own idear of what a good mix consists of. you can play a load of old boot legs to the fancy dress brigade and pack the place out would that make it a right mix ? no so we could debate that one until the cows come home . personly i think being in the right place helps . unfortunetly for me am not!

Edited April 28, 2010 by steptoe

[Quinvy]

Can I just set the record straight please on the subject of the Burnley allnighter ending?

1. There was no problem with the venue, I had a fantastic relationship with Gary & Susan and consider them friends.

2. There wasn't really a problem with numbers through the door. It wasn't packed on the last night, but it was a very enjoyable one, or so I was told by the people who attended.

3. I didn't throw my toys out of the pram about anything or anyone.

The allnighter came to an end because my resident Dj's couldn't commit to attending every month, and personally because of the time and money that I was putting into it, it wasn't worth going bi monthly or quarterly, and because I still couldn't get guarantees that the Dj's would turn up.

In my opinion the Burnley allnighter was special because of the resident Dj's. In particular I think that Cliff Camfield and Karl Heard at Burnley, were the best I've ever seen at getting a venue rocking, and with original sounds too. Fantastic!

Also there was no agenda to make the music policy all uptempo 60's but the dancers demanded it. We did play some mid tempo stuff, though just not all at once.

Sorry if this seems off topic, but people keep making references about Burnley and I just wanted to set the record straight.

PS after reading this thread, I realise that I belong to a very small minority group, so I may as well shut the **** up.

Phil.

[Ian Parker]

people will always need clothes and more and more people are born every day lol just about the complete oposit to the rare soul scene .

evey one has there own idear of what a good mix consists of. you can play a load of old boot legs to the fancy dress brigade and pack the place out would that make it a right mix ? no so we could debate that one until the cows come home . personly i think being in the right place helps . unfortunetly for me am not!

I own original records, not boot legs..............................I like oldies & rare.......................i dress as a Rockabilly......................but i have original 70s clothes that i also like to wear for a Soul night.............................& NO IT'S NOT FANCY DRESS

SO GET YOUR FACT'S RIGHT!

The only thing you have said that i can agree with is...........................that everyone has there own idea of what a good mix consists of..........................I know what mine would be

Debbie x

[Dave Moore]

Can I just set the record straight please on the subject of the Burnley allnighter ending?

1. There was no problem with the venue, I had a fantastic relationship with Gary & Susan and consider them friends.

2. There wasn't really a problem with numbers through the door. It wasn't packed on the last night, but it was a very enjoyable one, or so I was told by the people who attended.

3. I didn't throw my toys out of the pram about anything or anyone.

The allnighter came to an end because my resident Dj's couldn't commit to attending every month, and personally because of the time and money that I was putting into it, it wasn't worth going bi monthly or quarterly, and because I still couldn't get guarantees that the Dj's would turn up.

In my opinion the Burnley allnighter was special because of the resident Dj's. In particular I think that Cliff Camfield and Karl Heard at Burnley, were the best I've ever seen at getting a venue rocking, and with original sounds too. Fantastic!

Also there was no agenda to make the music policy all uptempo 60's but the dancers demanded it. We did play some mid tempo stuff, though just not all at once.

Sorry if this seems off topic, but people keep making references about Burnley and I just wanted to set the record straight.

PS after reading this thread, I realise that I belong to a very small minority group, so I may as well shut the **** up.

Phil.

Hi Phil,

As I mentioned Burnley in my post I should explain that I only used the venue as an example and wasn't specifically criticising anything. I enjoyed myself whenever I attended your gig, even if the music wasn't always exactly my cup of tea all night long. As I think you'll remember I was usually there til the end listening to all the DJs and all the styles. If you get 100% your preffered tempos, syles and taste in one solitary allnighter then you've found soul Utopia. I always try and remember that somebody somewhere in thevenue is probably well chuffed to be dancin' to exactly the same 45 that sends me to the bar.

Cheers,

Dave

[Chalky]

I, like everyone else, think Butch is (can be) an incredible DJ. But im sick (in UK) of hearing him playing the same old stuff at particular venues. So, if an opportunity arises to see him out of that context, with the freedom to play what he wants, ill make an effort to go....

If a venue books him and the punters dont give off the vibe that they are up for hearing what 'he' wants to play, where their tolerance for anything new is low, and another books him where the punters respect him and trust him enough to 'go for it', ill be going to the second. So its necessary and important that one particular venue doesn't monopolise and restrict a dj like Butch. Must be good for his own soul aswell to play different suff at different places.

I agree with you Paul there. Think Butch the last few times I have heard him has been as good as I've heard him in a long time, his sets are pretty varied, probably not enough for some but he certainly not stuck to the 60's. Boomerang should be good, two one hour sets I think, the last time he was there he was superb.

[Agentsmith]

Can I just set the record straight please on the subject of the Burnley allnighter ending?

1. There was no problem with the venue, I had a fantastic relationship with Gary & Susan and consider them friends.

2. There wasn't really a problem with numbers through the door. It wasn't packed on the last night, but it was a very enjoyable one, or so I was told by the people who attended.

3. I didn't throw my toys out of the pram about anything or anyone.

The allnighter came to an end because my resident Dj's couldn't commit to attending every month, and personally because of the time and money that I was putting into it, it wasn't worth going bi monthly or quarterly, and because I still couldn't get guarantees that the Dj's would turn up.

In my opinion the Burnley allnighter was special because of the resident Dj's. In particular I think that Cliff Camfield and Karl Heard at Burnley, were the best I've ever seen at getting a venue rocking, and with original sounds too. Fantastic!

Also there was no agenda to make the music policy all uptempo 60's but the dancers demanded it. We did play some mid tempo stuff, though just not all at once.

Sorry if this seems off topic, but people keep making references about Burnley and I just wanted to set the record straight.

PS after reading this thread, I realise that I belong to a very small minority group, so I may as well shut the **** up.

Phil.

phil, can i make the point....why have an inordinate number of resident djs? maybe people get fed up with hearing the same people all of the time...it dosnt mean they aren'tgood but people like change. in my neck of the woods, lea manor was a breath of fresh air ALL THE TIME and although the attendances fluctuated through no fault of its own the punters were always bristling with expectation as to who was going to be on next, no rota, no residents, just everyone and anyone, known or unknown given a chance to put forward their interpretation of their playbox, but still with a mind to cater for the punters. music policy: obsolete, it went back and forth all the time covering all decades and genres AND it uniquely housed two crowds, the dancers and chinstrokers, who stood at the bar,drank,smoked,talked soul talk, browsed records BUT importantly had one ear on the tunes.

everyone was happy, the people who were running it were looking after the punters the proper and fair way,and they did exactly the same with the djs.

as ive already mentioned, terry and lynne did the same at tsop, although the music was more traditional and the venue was in the breeding ground of the northwest.only terry and ginger were residents, but terry always made room for 4 guests and every month without fail they were always different.

dont you think this is a contributing factor in providing for a fresher scene?

dont you think that the reason why there are so many gigs clogging the arteries is because so many wannabees feel disenfranchised, that they cant get a break, so the alternative is to start their own gig so they can dj?

and what if these people have it in mind that to make a success of it, they'll be fair to other people by letting them dj on their gig?

that they will refuse to recruit a host of residents, instead preferring to give anyone a shot who wants it?

do you consider my accusation fair, that many promotors/djs/venues are closed shop?

do you think from a dj point of view the whole spectrum( nighters, soul nights weekenders) is suffering from a creeping "old pals act"?

do you think ANYONE should have residency bestowed on them, bad or good dj, especially when theyre not actually the promotor?

heard good things about burnley through ginger and others so its not the quality of the music thats ever going to be a problem on the whole...its the diversity which the promotor employs: a cosmopolitan playlist enriched by a neverending conveyor belt of enthusiastic djs.

i chose to direct my attention to the northwest as i thought people there would be more receptive to my efforts to get on the ladder, although i feel like ive been stuck on the bottom rung for ages, and thanks to terry, barry and ginger, ive been at the helm but its a mere scratch on the surface. ill not return to the west mids, the north is my spiritual home and ill be spinnin' at the tower...i call that fairness especially when the line-up is full of big names and there's me....if everyone took a leaf out of that book and swallowed some pride, we wouldnt all be on this thread trying to decipher a problem that really shouldnt exist.

rob.h

[Guest I KNOW NOTHING]

Careful Astra,the "little guy" may be a "wannabee" who hasn't time served or been to the mythological DJ School.

Keeps cropping up on the thread about "cliques" of promoters/dj's.Would anyone seriously dj for a promoter who they couldn't stand the sight of.? No.

Friends and mates gravitate to each other thru a common set of demoninators.The music.The venues.The dj's.The crack.

Would a promoter book a dj they would rather set on fire? Not if he's true to himself.

So would someone please tell me whats wrong with likeminded folk meeting up and getting along.FFS !!!!!

Running all nighters as a business gets mentioned.The only ones who make the money ARE business men at heart.I'd bet the only ones who make money run oldies venues.

oi, dont tell me to watch out. i can say what i want or think.

[Dekka]

Can I just set the record straight please on the subject of the Burnley allnighter ending?

1. There was no problem with the venue, I had a fantastic relationship with Gary & Susan and consider them friends.

2. There wasn't really a problem with numbers through the door. It wasn't packed on the last night, but it was a very enjoyable one, or so I was told by the people who attended.

3. I didn't throw my toys out of the pram about anything or anyone.

The allnighter came to an end because my resident Dj's couldn't commit to attending every month, and personally because of the time and money that I was putting into it, it wasn't worth going bi monthly or quarterly, and because I still couldn't get guarantees that the Dj's would turn up.

In my opinion the Burnley allnighter was special because of the resident Dj's. In particular I think that Cliff Camfield and Karl Heard at Burnley, were the best I've ever seen at getting a venue rocking, and with original sounds too. Fantastic!

Also there was no agenda to make the music policy all uptempo 60's but the dancers demanded it. We did play some mid tempo stuff, though just not all at once.

Sorry if this seems off topic, but people keep making references about Burnley and I just wanted to set the record straight.

PS after reading this thread, I realise that I belong to a very small minority group, so I may as well shut the **** up.

Phil.

Burnley was a beacon in a f***ing sea of mediocrity

It did and still does set the bench mark,

The bar has been raised so f***ing high by Burnley.

Burnley was about the dancers and all the dancers on the scene loved Burnley, end of.

Now all of you go polish your records and stop touting your pathetic little ego's

[Guest karen b]

I agree with you Paul there. Think Butch the last few times I have heard him has been as good as I've heard him in a long time, his sets are pretty varied, probably not enough for some but he certainly not stuck to the 60's. Boomerang should be good, two one hour sets I think, the last time he was there he was superb.

Got to agree with Paul on trusting the DJs you book to do their thing,

and yes Chalky I too agree that Butch has thrown some fantastic sets together in recent times,

never more so than in the Modern room in Bamberg, truly inspired.

I do have to hold my hand up as a co promoter of Boomerang, but on this thread,

I am a punter, week in and week out, travelling the UK and Europe.

I will also say that niters are where I feel most at home, and unless going strait to work

will stay until the lights are turned on and a bin bag thrust into my hand!!!!

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

as a rider re: the next Boomerang, I feel I should refer anyone thinking of attending

to take a look at the previous playlists as we do give a free hand to any guest DJ

who are meticulously chosen and booked by Maria purly for what they can bring to our decks.

We try to create a relaxed happy atmosphere for both paying guests and DJs,

and when a DJ is happy and relaxed he/she will dig that bit deeper into their box with

a passion that benefits the whole room.

Winners all round.

[Chalky]

Burnley was a beacon in a f***ing sea of mediocrity

It did and still does set the bench mark,

The bar has been raised so f***ing high by Burnley.

Burnley was about the dancers and all the dancers on the scene loved Burnley, end of.

Now all of you go polish your records and stop touting your pathetic little ego's

well the bar has got knocked off so you'll have to find somewhere else in this sea of mediocrity, or is there no where left to go now

[KevH]

oi, dont tell me to watch out. i can say what i want or think.

,it was a tongue in cheek post.Irony,you want to try it some time.Yes of course you can say what you want or think.Sorry if i upset you.

[soul45s]

Now we have come back full circle to what I said on these very pages, probably 5/6 years ago. Let's run a soul night 8 till 2 playing fantastic music, what ever you want to call it, rare, upfront, lesser known, unknown, and all the people who are saying that they don't want to do allnighters anymore will flock to it........ha, ha! yeh right. How many have tried that and failed through lack of support. How many are still flogging the proverbial dead horse?

It's the people who travel that want that music, and they won't travel to a soul night when it takes them hours to get there then it shuts a 2am.

The answer? check out the lookbacks......Sunday afternoons....... sad but true.......

Got to go and sign on.

Phil

We've had people from Scotland, Cumbria, North East, Liverpool, Gloucester, the whole of Yorkshire & Lancs, Peterborough, Prestatyn and loads of other places attending my events in Bradford, people will and do travel to soul nights, mine and plenty of other events too, and they come back!

We used to close at 1am but the new venue management are happy for us to carry on longer now so im hoping even more will try us out with the extended opening hours!

I tell all the DJs the same couple of things: play originals only, avoid the overplayed stuff, I don't care how much something is worth, just play what you want as long as its soulful and you think it will work in your spot, we do get a great mixed selection of styles & tempos and I think its worked well so far, so I ain't gonna change a thing.

regards paul

[Wiganer1]

I agree with you Paul there. Think Butch the last few times I have heard him has been as good as I've heard him in a long time, his sets are pretty varied, probably not enough for some but he certainly not stuck to the 60's. Boomerang should be good, two one hour sets I think, the last time he was there he was superb.

=========

butch spot at lifeline was brill!!! eddie daniels wow!!

[Quinvy]

Phil

We've had people from Scotland, Cumbria, North East, Liverpool, Gloucester, the whole of Yorkshire & Lancs, Peterborough, Prestatyn and loads of other places attending my events in Bradford, people will and do travel to soul nights, mine and plenty of other events too, and they come back!

We used to close at 1am but the new venue management are happy for us to carry on longer now so im hoping even more will try us out with the extended opening hours!

I tell all the DJs the same couple of things: play originals only, avoid the overplayed stuff, I don't care how much something is worth, just play what you want as long as its soulful and you think it will work in your spot, we do get a great mixed selection of styles & tempos and I think its worked well so far, so I ain't gonna change a thing.

regards paul

Paul, good luck to you mate, I've discovered that I am part of a tiny minority so am giving up posting. I know nothing.....

atb. Phil.

[Guest Catfish]

I'd like to place my point of view as a soul fan of just 20 yrs experience! All the obvious points about having a life outside soul, having to have brain functioning correctly on Monday morning.. etc. But my main point is this.

I am TIRED of being made to feel I should 'SUPPORT' this scene by spending endless time and money travelling 100's of miles (and, that's generally on my own, cause of where I live!) to do's that feel they are OWED A LIVING because they purport to have a monopoly on good taste and play 'something different'! The soul dance opportunity has been on offer for quite a while and the amount of 'different' that is gonna be available is going to be shrinking all the time. It's not about just WHAT you play; it's who is there, how skilled your DJ's are at playing the records in a creative and reactive manner, what your venue's like, and how bloody long it's gonna take me to get there!

If I want to hear a night of uptempo dancers, a bit of quality mid-tempo, some northern-70's and a bit of soulful garage that I've heard before, I can travel just 20-30 miles for that(Fulbourne, Fleet, to name a couple- both quality local nights that play to their expected remit). That's local do fodder, and, being realistic, it's going to be mainly your locals at your local do.

If I travel 80-120 plus miles to a top-ranking allnighter (cost=£30+£10 extrance + min £20 hotel if it's too far to drive back same night; that's £60 before drinks/food), I WANT and EXPECT to hear FANTASTIC, DIFFERENT and EXCITING music. I also expect a decent venue with a big enough, decent dancefloor, clean loos and enough chairs to find somewhere to hang my coat! I can afford to do this no more than once or twice a month, so I must choose carefully. ALL the factors above are employed, and a lot of time is spent choosing and planning. It is not a random decision based on who puts out the most fliers or hassles me the most to 'support' their venue.

This means I split my time between local venues and national venues, due to my personal contraints of time, money and preference. Like many, I should expect!

FOR INSTANCE: Last Friday, I arrived home from 2 weeks away at 1am on Sat morning. Instead of spending my weekend getting straight after my holiday and resting, I rushed around like blue-a**sed fly to get myself down to London for Va Va Voom by 8.30, having employed my decision criteria as above. I had a great night despite being pretty tired.

WHY there? Because, mostly, my friends were there, and secondly, I knew I could be sure of good music.

Now, if I am going to be judged on where I go (which is a pretty wide variety of places) and CATEGORISED by either promotors or well-meaning 'supporters' into being either a 'snob' or being 'elitist' or being into 'disco' or into '60's stompers' or being 'lazy'; OR if I am pressured into feeling GUILTY for not knocking myself out driving till 6am Sunday every soddin weekend, then I shall start to get jaded by the whole guilt-trip/ decision-making thing and just spend less time going to soul events, making it ONCE a month maybe. Plenty of other things to do- I can go to West Rd concert hall and hear the Britten Sinfonia. Or Kettles Yard jazz club. Not just one 'scene' for me; never was and never will be. There are many like me who may not be devoted to soul as if it is a religion but still have a long-standing fondness and love of it as PART of their lives.

I'm just going for a night out- as I have done for 20 years. I have also done a bit of promoting myself in London a long time ago- doubt if anyone will remember, but I remember the stress and the work and also the fun and the sense of achievement when a night is a success. It's a business decision and a risk; if you do it you take your chances. If you want a party to bolster your ego just do it in your front room with a few mates; don't expect individuals to 'support' anything! I'm just going for a night out with my mates for a dance.. or maybe, I'm driving a bit further cause I feel adventurous this weekend... whichever it is, I don't need the guilt trip. The 'scene' is an imaginary concept that we construct to make sense of it all, but, in reality it's a High St competing for customers like any other. So.. when you print 'something different' on a flier.. as we see many times..

ask yourself, is is REALLY that 'different'?! And does it need to be?

Edited April 29, 2010 by Catfish

[dthedrug]

Hi to you all...I have looked through this thread from top to bottom...My conclusion is WHAT Point are YOU TRYING To MAKE..

It seems that you are all attend All-Nighters and Weekender's just to moan about issues that don't mean F all, the Soul scene ain't Dieing its just that you are getting old and cant except this fact of life?? What the majority of this thread want, is unclear to myself. Also BUTCH is a good bloke a great DJ and I don't like to here BAD things said about good People. You are all good people but if you must go to weekender's every other week no wonder you are Burnt out? and sound like lost souls, Enjoy yourselves don't attack one another as there is only 10 to 15 years left for most of the originals.// DAVE KIL

[Guest]

I'd like to place my point of view as a soul fan of just 20 yrs experience! All the obvious points about having a life outside soul, having to have brain functioning correctly on Monday morning.. etc. But my main point is this.

I am TIRED of being made to feel I should 'SUPPORT' this scene by spending endless time and money travelling 100's of miles (and, that's generally on my own, cause of where I live!) to do's that feel they are OWED A LIVING because they purport to have a monopoly on good taste and play 'something different'! The soul dance opportunity has been on offer for quite a while and the amount of 'different' that is gonna be available is going to be shrinking all the time. It's not about just WHAT you play; it's who is there, how skilled your DJ's are at playing the records in a creative and reactive manner, what your venue's like, and how bloody long it's gonna take me to get there!

If I want to hear a night of uptempo dancers, a bit of quality mid-tempo, some northern-70's and a bit of soulful garage that I've heard before, I can travel just 20-30 miles for that(Fulbourne, Fleet, to name a couple- both quality local nights that play to their expected remit). That's local do fodder, and, being realistic, it's going to be mainly your locals at your local do.

If I travel 80-120 plus miles to a top-ranking allnighter (cost=£30+£10 extrance + min £20 hotel if it's too far to drive back same night; that's £60 before drinks/food), I WANT and EXPECT to hear FANTASTIC, DIFFERENT and EXCITING music. I also expect a decent venue with a big enough, decent dancefloor, clean loos and enough chairs to find somewhere to hang my coat! I can afford to do this no more than once or twice a month, so I must choose carefully. ALL the factors above are employed, and a lot of time is spent choosing and planning. It is not a random decision based on who puts out the most fliers or hassles me the most to 'support' their venue.

This means I split my time between local venues and national venues, due to my personal contraints of time, money and preference. Like many, I should expect!

FOR INSTANCE: Last Friday, I arrived home from 2 weeks away at 1am on Sat morning. Instead of spending my weekend getting straight after my holiday and resting, I rushed around like blue-a**sed fly to get myself down to London for Va Va Voom by 8.30, having employed my decision criteria as above. I had a great night despite being pretty tired.

WHY there? Because, mostly, my friends were there, and secondly, I knew I could be sure of good music.

Now, if I am going to be judged on where I go (which is a pretty wide variety of places) and CATEGORISED by either promotors or well-meaning 'supporters' into being either a 'snob' or being 'elitist' or being into 'disco' or into '60's stompers' or being 'lazy'; OR if I am pressured into feeling GUILTY for not knocking myself out driving till 6am Sunday every soddin weekend, then I shall start to get jaded by the whole guilt-trip/ decision-making thing and just spend less time going to soul events, making it ONCE a month maybe. Plenty of other things to do- I can go to West Rd concert hall and hear the Britten Sinfonia. Or Kettles Yard jazz club. Not just one 'scene' for me; never was and never will be. There are many like me who may not be devoted to soul as if it is a religion but still have a long-standing fondness and love of it as PART of their lives.

I'm just going for a night out- as I have done for 20 years. I have also done a bit of promoting myself in London a long time ago- doubt if anyone will remember, but I remember the stress and the work and also the fun and the sense of achievement when a night is a success. It's a business decision and a risk; if you do it you take your chances. If you want a party to bolster your ego just do it in your front room with a few mates; don't expect individuals to 'support' anything! I'm just going for a night out with my mates for a dance.. or maybe, I'm driving a bit further cause I feel adventurous this weekend... whichever it is, I don't need the guilt trip. The 'scene' is an imaginary concept that we construct to make sense of it all, but, in reality it's a High St competing for customers like any other. So.. when you print 'something different' on a flier.. as we see many times..

ask yourself, is is REALLY that 'different'?! And does it need to be?

What a fantastic post

[Anais nin Carms]

Ok ... I am an adult, I am 52 years old . I make my own choices I really do object to anyone preaching to me about what and where I should go to "support" this scene.

As said before if you have the right combination they will flock to your door. And it's not just about music, it's about the VIBE within the club. Your customer has to feel welcome and comfortable in the surroundings and that can incorporate a whole gambit of requirements. So you better be prepared it's not easy to please everyone because people don't come in one shape or size. It's so easy to blame it on the type of music being played.

Maybe the reason why a club has not been successful in filling a room could be down to a combination of the above?

As I am getting older my requirements are changing I prefer to go somewhere close to home where the music leans to mid tempo, and what is most important is the people that I share my experience with. It has to be friendly non intrusive and not intimidating.

Sometimes I want a down right funky gritty night so I chose my venue accordingly.

I found the Beat Boutique very refreshing the other week because they had none of these stuffy rules of etiquette. In fact this was very similar to my experience at Madam Jo Jo's too.

I realise a venue has to break even , but in my view success is not measured in the number in the room , success is measured in people within the room having a good time and going home happy.

Accept that this time as being the best of times, we have so much choice in the type music we listen to and also in the type of venues that we can attend.

I applaud anyone that likes to have a free play policy but I really do object to someone limiting my choice by reducing whats on the shelf to suit their needs in the name of "Supporting this scene ".

I want the full garden not just a lawn and I am all for giving unknown Dj's a chance . Soul is not a manoploly there should always be room for new players.

Edited April 29, 2010 by Carms

[Little-stevie]

I'd like to place my point of view as a soul fan of just 20 yrs experience! All the obvious points about having a life outside soul, having to have brain functioning correctly on Monday morning.. etc. But my main point is this.

I am TIRED of being made to feel I should 'SUPPORT' this scene by spending endless time and money travelling 100's of miles (and, that's generally on my own, cause of where I live!) to do's that feel they are OWED A LIVING because they purport to have a monopoly on good taste and play 'something different'! The soul dance opportunity has been on offer for quite a while and the amount of 'different' that is gonna be available is going to be shrinking all the time. It's not about just WHAT you play; it's who is there, how skilled your DJ's are at playing the records in a creative and reactive manner, what your venue's like, and how bloody long it's gonna take me to get there!

If I want to hear a night of uptempo dancers, a bit of quality mid-tempo, some northern-70's and a bit of soulful garage that I've heard before, I can travel just 20-30 miles for that(Fulbourne, Fleet, to name a couple- both quality local nights that play to their expected remit). That's local do fodder, and, being realistic, it's going to be mainly your locals at your local do.

If I travel 80-120 plus miles to a top-ranking allnighter (cost=£30+£10 extrance + min £20 hotel if it's too far to drive back same night; that's £60 before drinks/food), I WANT and EXPECT to hear FANTASTIC, DIFFERENT and EXCITING music. I also expect a decent venue with a big enough, decent dancefloor, clean loos and enough chairs to find somewhere to hang my coat! I can afford to do this no more than once or twice a month, so I must choose carefully. ALL the factors above are employed, and a lot of time is spent choosing and planning. It is not a random decision based on who puts out the most fliers or hassles me the most to 'support' their venue.

This means I split my time between local venues and national venues, due to my personal contraints of time, money and preference. Like many, I should expect!

FOR INSTANCE: Last Friday, I arrived home from 2 weeks away at 1am on Sat morning. Instead of spending my weekend getting straight after my holiday and resting, I rushed around like blue-a**sed fly to get myself down to London for Va Va Voom by 8.30, having employed my decision criteria as above. I had a great night despite being pretty tired.

WHY there? Because, mostly, my friends were there, and secondly, I knew I could be sure of good music.

Now, if I am going to be judged on where I go (which is a pretty wide variety of places) and CATEGORISED by either promotors or well-meaning 'supporters' into being either a 'snob' or being 'elitist' or being into 'disco' or into '60's stompers' or being 'lazy'; OR if I am pressured into feeling GUILTY for not knocking myself out driving till 6am Sunday every soddin weekend, then I shall start to get jaded by the whole guilt-trip/ decision-making thing and just spend less time going to soul events, making it ONCE a month maybe. Plenty of other things to do- I can go to West Rd concert hall and hear the Britten Sinfonia. Or Kettles Yard jazz club. Not just one 'scene' for me; never was and never will be. There are many like me who may not be devoted to soul as if it is a religion but still have a long-standing fondness and love of it as PART of their lives.

I'm just going for a night out- as I have done for 20 years. I have also done a bit of promoting myself in London a long time ago- doubt if anyone will remember, but I remember the stress and the work and also the fun and the sense of achievement when a night is a success. It's a business decision and a risk; if you do it you take your chances. If you want a party to bolster your ego just do it in your front room with a few mates; don't expect individuals to 'support' anything! I'm just going for a night out with my mates for a dance.. or maybe, I'm driving a bit further cause I feel adventurous this weekend... whichever it is, I don't need the guilt trip. The 'scene' is an imaginary concept that we construct to make sense of it all, but, in reality it's a High St competing for customers like any other. So.. when you print 'something different' on a flier.. as we see many times..

ask yourself, is is REALLY that 'different'?! And does it need to be?

[Paul-s]

I agree with you Paul there. Think Butch the last few times I have heard him has been as good as I've heard him in a long time, his sets are pretty varied, probably not enough for some but he certainly not stuck to the 60's. Boomerang should be good, two one hour sets I think, the last time he was there he was superb.

Mich H has been terrific too. Always has a few suprises!

[Paul-s]

well the bar has got knocked off so you'll have to find somewhere else in this sea of mediocrity, or is there no where left to go now

pmsl...think the guy was a Burnley Evangilist!

[Paul-s]

Ok ... I am an adult, I am 52 years old . I make my own choices I really do object to anyone preaching to me about what and where I should go to "support" this scene.

As said before if you have the right combination they will flock to your door. And it's not just about music, it's about the VIBE within the club. Your customer has to feel welcome and comfortable in the surroundings and that can incorporate a whole gambit of requirements. So you better be prepared it's not easy to please everyone because people don't come in one shape or size. It's so easy to blame it on the type of music being played.

Maybe the reason why a club has not been successful in filling a room could be down to a combination of the above?

As I am getting older my requirements are changing I prefer to go somewhere close to home where the music leans to mid tempo, and what is most important is the people that I share my experience with. It has to be friendly non intrusive and not intimidating.

Sometimes I want a down right funky gritty night so I chose my venue accordingly.

I found the Beat Boutique very refreshing the other week because they had none of these stuffy rules of etiquette. In fact this was very similar to my experience at Madam Jo Jo's too.

I realise a venue has to break even , but in my view success is not measured in the number in the room , success is measured in people within the room having a good time and going home happy.

Accept that this time as being the best of times, we have so much choice in the type music we listen to and also in the type of venues that we can attend.

I applaud anyone that likes to have a free play policy but I really do object to someone limiting my choice by reducing whats on the shelf to suit their needs in the name of "Supporting this scene ".

I want the full garden not just a lawn and I am all for giving unknown Dj's a chance . Soul is not a manoploly there should always be room for new players.

Great and perceptive post

[Quinvy]

pmsl...think the guy was a Burnley Evangilist!

Think the guy has great taste personally.......

[Corbett80]

=========

butch spot at lifeline was brill!!! eddie daniels wow!!

I LOVE this record....like the bit where he starts dishing out the kisses to the laydees as well.....

Perfect dance tempo, perfect mix of funk, rolling sixties dancefloor soul, tidy vocals, and guitar licks.

Sounded fantastic at the 100 the other week.

[Guest Phoenix8049]

hang on a bit there are lots of people going around buying clothes every day lol hardly the same as people quing up to go to soul clubs and nighters bit of a diference there isnt there ?

evey one has there own idear of what a good mix consists of. you can play a load of old boot legs to the fancy dress brigade and pack the place out would that make it a right mix ? no so we could debate that one until the cows come home . personly i think being in the right place helps . unfortunetly for me am not!

I dont have a problem with people being passionate about there music,Although i do think a minority take it far to seriously.

Music weather it is collecting or listening or going to soul venues be it nighters or just soul nights,is just a leisure activity that should be enjoyable.

I love music always have always will especially Northern Soul,but its not the be all of my life.

My family,friends,health and work are way more important to me.

The thing i most object to is a small minority of people who think because i dont go to a nighter,or i prefer an oldies night one evening and a modern soul evening on another occasion,or a mix of everything on another night,that i am a sinner and should go straight to hell.

And also if i dont wear the correct clothes to these nights,or If i go to nights in the north west instead of London or wherever.that i cant call myself a proper soul fan.

I never have and never will be dictated to on how i shoulod run my life or what i should and should not like.

if people want to dress up and go to soul venues and not nighters and vise versa,its there choice.

Its up to them onhow they run there life not anybody else who does not agree with there opinions.

RANT OVER.

Stu.

[Dekka]

well the bar has got knocked off so you'll have to find somewhere else in this sea of mediocrity, or is there no where left to go now

After having spoken to Johnny fingers at the 100 club recently

I hope he and the 'move on' boys turn their club into an allnighter.

Even it's only 4 or 5 times a year,

cos judging by their playlists i will have found my new allnighter church

at least it won't be run by some smug puffed up pigeon

[Corbett80]

Shame i thought Johnny F. had written in lookbacks that he had a good time at the last 100 Club? Who is the puffed up pigeon you are referring to btw?

Edited April 29, 2010 by corbett80

[Paul-s]

After having spoken to Johnny fingers at the 100 club recently

I hope he and the 'move on' boys turn their club into an allnighter.

Even it's only 4 or 5 times a year,

cos judging by their playlists i will have found my new allnighter church

It is a terrific night and i loved playing there. Absolutely no agenda except good music to move your soul and feet.! Not genre restrictive either..Would be a good nighter!

[Paul-s]

I LOVE this record....like the bit where he starts dishing out the kisses to the laydees as well.....

Perfect dance tempo, perfect mix of funk, rolling sixties dancefloor soul, tidy vocals, and guitar licks.

Sounded fantastic at the 100 the other week.

..dont mention funk edges in stuff, you'll scare people!

[Corbett80]

True.....

[Guest I KNOW NOTHING]

well the bar has got knocked off so you'll have to find somewhere else in this sea of mediocrity, or is there no where left to go now

burnley p+++ed all over lifeline. the music. atmosphere and dj's. you prob never went chalky cos you were not djing. you want try go venues that you aint working at and see from the other side of the fence.........

[Dekka]

I LOVE this record....like the bit where he starts dishing out the kisses to the laydees as well.....

Perfect dance tempo, perfect mix of funk, rolling sixties dancefloor soul, tidy vocals, and guitar licks.

Sounded fantastic at the 100 the other week.

I was at the 100 club that night,

not only did I love the record I loved the whole night.

I was at Madame Jo jo's the night before to see Keb,

been twice now and absolutely love that place, refreshing and vibrant.

If you want to see how to get young people enjoy music from rockabilly to funk

and everything inbetween, but quality uptempo dance music,

then look no further.

By the way, Butch is a fookin cool dude

[Agentsmith]

burnley p+++ed all over lifeline. the music. atmosphere and dj's. you prob never went chalky cos you were not djing. you want try go venues that you aint working at and see from the other side of the fence.........

you know a lot of djs DO go and support gigs weather theyre djing or not but in their minds as always, being a dj, is making a pitch for a spot....problem is too many chiefs and not enough indians or too many cooks spoil the broth....it dosnt matter weather its chalky or anyone else on this planet, when you look at a line-up that reads RESIDENTS, you start thinking about THE BACK OF THE QUEUE and just how long its gonna be to get on a popular gig.....not as difficult for the RESIDENTS,...IS IT? EH?.

chalky's not knocking burnley and neither am i , just pointing out a pertinent FACT. the other side of the fence is the reality we all face.

to get to a gig we have to travel....FUEL, OVERNIGHT ACCOMODATION, FOOD, DRINKS AND THE DISCRETIONARY SPEND ON RECORDS.

these do not always necessarily apply but we have to travel. of course chalky might not be bothered about getting a spot ( supposition).

he might decide, like anyone else, that he's going to take a look because he's heard its so good. i havent been but got the vibe about it via ginger, roman, nige.g etc., and id have a distance to travel, but if i were making the trip with the hope of introducing myself and looking for an opportunity to do a spot, id think that guest room was in short supply and hence, the chances were remote. it really should have been an open door policy for djs, perhaps phil wouldnt have given up on it ( remember, he said on a particular occasion he couldnt get all his resident djs). to all intents and purposes the line-up played brill tunes.......but there are 1000's out there who share the same accolade.....and theyre all hunting for the opportunities that are being denied them by narrow mindedness. there's no worry they wont support the scene, they always have, they grew up with it as punters but made a key transition and they want to progress with it.

i love the idea that people are allowed free expression with their playboxes which, have been lovingly compiled....just let all of them have their say, dont inhibit their optimism by sticking with your top dog residents. keeping the turnover eternal keeps punters interested...if they keep seeing DIFFERENT NAMES they keep wondering what wierd and wonderful tunes they are going to be treeated to.

rob.

[Billywhizz]

burnley p+++ed all over lifeline. the music. atmosphere and dj's. you prob never went chalky cos you were not djing. you want try go venues that you aint working at and see from the other side of the fence.........

burnley p+++ed all over lifeline, no no no, burnley was very good one of the best nighters ive experienced for many years, lifeline has been going much longer with upfront music all the way so u dont wanna be knocking that, ive known chalky for about 10 years now doing allnighters around the country ive never seen him with his box always there enjoying himself.

Billy

[Paul Shirley]

I own original records, not boot legs..............................I like oldies & rare.......................i dress as a Rockabilly......................but i have original 70s clothes that i also like to wear for a Soul night.............................& NO IT'S NOT FANCY DRESS

SO GET YOUR FACT'S RIGHT!

The only thing you have said that i can agree with is...........................that everyone has there own idea of what a good mix consists of..........................I know what mine would be

Debbie x

er ?? what are you talking about ? why shuld i care if you own oldies or rare records ? who said you didnt ? ....... why have you decided to pick diferent bits out that i have said in reply to other posts that has nothing to do with anything you said ?? apart from that i used the term fancy dress ??

you have got me here ? as i was replying to calms post perticuly the comparison about peoples choice and variaty i was refaring to the analogy she used , nothing more and nothing horrible i just simply didnt agree with it because there are loads of customers for clothes shops its hardly the same for soul do's thats all .

are you upset cause i used a sweeping statment by saying you can pack a place out by playing oldies on bootlegs all night to the fancy dress brigade ???? so you decided that i meant you is that it ??? because regardles of you owning any original records or not i wasant talking to you or meaning you as i do not know who you are ? am pleased for you so you own some real records golly . did i say you didnt ? ......so i'll stand by what i said about the fancy dress brigade because thats exactly what i have seen and 100% know to be the truth about places where people dressed up looking like they just steped out from a time machine but (there bodys hasnt) dancing to bootlegs it's a (fact), i could write you a very long list of these places and all within 40 miles so what part am i wrong about ??? you say its not fancy dress ....to me it is !!

it may suprise you to know that i still go and have a drink at some of these clubs now and again as i have many friends on that scene dating back to the casino days , it doesn't mean i have to condone or conform to what they do' i do not hate them in any way they have every right to dress the way they want and and dance to bootlegs but that dosent mean that i wish they didnt but thats there business . those that know me proper know that i also own a good collection of (oldies) for want of a better word )as well as rarer and lesser known tunes i might add lol , i just do not want to hear oldies played out on fake records for genuine reasons to do with the servival of those very same old records that i care about. now the reason i have told you all this is because am fed up of hearing presumptuous views about my beliefs that are wrong and far from the truth

but since you mentiond it

why do you feel the need to dress up in 70s clothes to go and listen or dance to soul music ?

this is somthing that dose irritate me .there is no conection at all' for me apart from wearing those clothes up the casino years ago but i also wore them to work and every day use .as that was the fasion back then, and just like the music the northern soul scene moved along with fasion right up to the present day . i cant help thinking that the northern soul scene would atract more people if it wasnt for you lot dressing up in 70s gear , how on earth are younger people going to appreciate this music or this scene when they are confronted with 50 year olds dressed up in clothes that look ridiculous. trouble is not everyone knows that there is now two scenes for this reason alone am now glad that there is .

Edited April 30, 2010 by steptoe

[Paul Shirley]

I dont have a problem with people being passionate about there music,Although i do think a minority take it far to seriously.

Music weather it is collecting or listening or going to soul venues be it nighters or just soul nights,is just a leisure activity that should be enjoyable.

I love music always have always will especially Northern Soul,but its not the be all of my life.

My family,friends,health and work are way more important to me.

The thing i most object to is a small minority of people who think because i dont go to a nighter,or i prefer an oldies night one evening and a modern soul evening on another occasion,or a mix of everything on another night,that i am a sinner and should go straight to hell.

And also if i dont wear the correct clothes to these nights,or If i go to nights in the north west instead of London or wherever.that i cant call myself a proper soul fan.

I never have and never will be dictated to on how i shoulod run my life or what i should and should not like.

if people want to dress up and go to soul venues and not nighters and vise versa,its there choice.

Its up to them onhow they run there life not anybody else who does not agree with there opinions.

RANT OVER.

Stu.

er? whats any of that got to do with anything ive said ? dont understand could you explain ??

Edited April 29, 2010 by steptoe

[Chalky]

burnley p+++ed all over lifeline. the music. atmosphere and dj's. you prob never went chalky cos you were not djing. you want try go venues that you aint working at and see from the other side of the fence.........

In your opinion just as my opinion Lifeline is the best all-nighter. And actually I went several times, not in the last two years but prior to that several times so get your facts right before shooting your mouth off. As for the music, I know what it was. The place wasn't for everyone, just like other nighters aren't to everyones taste.

Why do some want to make this topic a "this night is better than that night" etc. Its about issues and problems on the scene, nothing else. If Top Dog or anyone else got owt to say to me about Burnley or Lifeline do it via PM.

[Guest Matt Male]

After having spoken to Johnny fingers at the 100 club recently

I hope he and the 'move on' boys turn their club into an allnighter.

Even it's only 4 or 5 times a year,

cos judging by their playlists i will have found my new allnighter church

It is a terrific night and i loved playing there. Absolutely no agenda except good music to move your soul and feet.! Not genre restrictive either..Would be a good nighter!

Kind words Paul and Dekka. A few people have mentioned it to us in conversation over the last few months.

Who knows. If there's room for us we certainly wouldn't rule anything out for the future.

[Guest toffee lady]

burnley p+++ed all over lifeline

and my dads bigger than your dad, nah nah nahnah nah!

you're starting to sound like a playground argument

Edited April 29, 2010 by toffee lady

[Guest him N her]

er ?? what are you talking about ? why shuld i care if you own oldies or rare records ? who said you didnt ? ....... why have you decided to pick diferent bits out that i have said in reply to other posts that has nothing to do with anything you said ?? apart from that i used the term fancy dress ??

you have got me here ? as i was replying to calms post perticuly the comparison about peoples choice and variaty i was refaring to the analogy she used , nothing more and nothing horrible i just simply didnt agree with it because there are loads of customers for clothes shops its hardly the same for soul do's thats all .

are you upset cause i used a sweeping statment by saying you can pack a place out by playing oldies on bootlegs all night to the fancy dress brigade ???? so you decided that i meant you is that it ??? because regardles of you owning any original records or not i wasant talking to you or meaning you as i do not know who you are ? am pleased for you so you own some real records golly . did i say you didnt ? ......so i'll stand by what i said about the fancy dress brigade because thats exactly what i have seen and 100% know to be the truth about places where people dressed up looking like they just steped out from a time machine but (there bodys hasnt) dancing to bootlegs it's a (fact), i could write you a very long list of these places and all within 40 miles so what part am i wrong about ??? you say its not fancy dress ....to me it is !!

it may suprise you to know that i still go and have a drink at some of these clubs now and again as i have many friends on that scene dating back to the casino days , it doesn't mean i have to condone or conform to what they do' i do not hate them in any way . those that know me proper know that i also own a good collection of (oldies) for want of a better word )as well as rarer and lesser known tunes i might add lol , i just do not want to hear oldies played out on fake records . now the reason i have told you all this is because am fed up of hearing presumptuous views about my beliefs

but since you mentiond it

why do you feel the need to dress up in 70s clothes to go and listen or dance to soul music ?

this is somthing that dose irritate me .there is no conection at all' for me apart from wearing those clothes up the casino years ago but i also wore them to work and every day use .as that was the fasion back then, and just like the music the northern soul scene moved along with fasion right up to the present day . i cant help thinking that the northern soul scene would atract more people if it wasnt for you lot dressing up in 70s gear , how on earth are younger people going to appreciate this music or this scene when they are confronted with 50 year olds dressed up in clothes that look ridiculous. trouble is not everyone knows that there is now two scenes for this reason alone am now glad that there is .

[Guest Phoenix8049]

Here we go again,people trying to dictate to other people what they should or should not where and what music they should and should not listen to.

Its there life leave em alone for god's sake.

Stu.

[Ady Pountain]

Well, I'm off to Bamberg tomorrow, so that's 2 x All-Nighters and 4 DJ Spots and a Saturday afternoon session and a Sunday wind down. I was at Soul Essence, same story and Lifeline, just an All-Nighter, lightweights. In between I went to a local Soul Night and listened to 100's of Soul Records of every type you can mention. So tomorrow it's a drive to the airport, a 90 minute flight, a 3 hour drive and 3 days of Soul Heaven along with alot of the people mentioned on this thread DJing who aren't worth the breath they breath. They have also had similar journeys to get there, for 2 of them a whole day of train travel. Let's not forget the Spanish Armada, the Soul Germans, the locals and Max and the Aussie Boomerang crowd. Adjourn yer asses! Young Ady.

[Mace]

It's a sad, sad day when this discussion turns to slagging off other events with a similar music policy.

Seriously, what can be gained from all this?

This is probably why the oldies events are usually rammed with folk just enjoying the night for what it is, whilst the rarer side of the scene bitches and fights amongst itself for a tiny slice of sweet fcuk all.

I've sat on my hands for days resisting the urge to spout some shite on here.....perhaps a few others should try the same.

Just stop bitching and stop biting.

You've got more in common than you'd probably care to admit....channel your passion into pushing the music rather than whose event is best.

If this is the way forward we might as well pack it all in now cus otherwise the scene is well and truly fcuked.

Edited April 29, 2010 by Mace

[Ficklefingers]

Shame i thought Johnny F. had written in lookbacks that he had a good time at the last 100 Club? Who is the puffed up pigeon you are referring to btw?

The conversation Dekka and I had that included the topics of Move On & Burnley wasn't anything to do with the 100 Club - or our enjoyment of it that night - only that it just happened to be the place we were at when we had the said conversation..

Fingers

[Dysonsoul]

It's a sad, sad day when this discussion turns to slagging off other events with a similar music policy.

Seriously, what can be gained from all this?

This is probably why the oldies events are usually rammed with folk just enjoying the night for what it is, whilst the rarer side of the scene bitches and fights amongst itself for a tiny slice of sweet fcuk all.

I've sat on my hands for days resisting the urge to spout some shite on here.....perhaps a few others should try the same.

Just stop bitching and stop biting.

You've got more in common than you'd probably care to admit....channel your passion into pushing the music rather than whose event is best.

If this is the way forward we might as well pack it all in now cus otherwise the scene is well and truly fcuked.

Good grief mace bet you used loads of vaseline when you sat on your hands ... was it left or right or both at the same time !

Aye been readin through it and find there's a fair bit aimed at me,so will have to at least acknowledge the points at some stage ,but you're right -most of the folk actually have a lot more in common....

[Paul Shirley]

Here we go again,people trying to dictate to other people what they should or should not where and what music they should and should not listen to.

Its there life leave em alone for god's sake.

Stu.

here we go again people acusing people of being guilty of things they havent done or said

i would read it all mate from start to finish eh? stu , anything you say will be taken down twisted and used against you for crimes against the paranoid and those that have problems understanding whatever you write and those that use diferent id's or friends

they will make things up then acuse you of saying it'

best wishes vlad the impaler !!

[Guest Phoenix8049]

here we go again people acusing people of being guilty of things they havent done or said

i would read it all mate from start to finish eh? stu , anything you say will be taken down twisted and used against you for crimes against the paranoid and those that have problems understanding whatever you write and those that use diferent id's or friends

they will make things up then acuse you of saying it'

best wishes vlad the impaler !!

I think Paul you have totally misunderstood my posts and have sent you a PM explainig it all in full.

Stu.

[Dekka]

It's a sad, sad day when this discussion turns to slagging off other events with a similar music policy.

Seriously, what can be gained from all this?

This is probably why the oldies events are usually rammed with folk just enjoying the night for what it is, whilst the rarer side of the scene bitches and fights amongst itself for a tiny slice of sweet fcuk all.

I've sat on my hands for days resisting the urge to spout some shite on here.....perhaps a few others should try the same.

Just stop bitching and stop biting.

You've got more in common than you'd probably care to admit....channel your passion into pushing the music rather than whose event is best.

If this is the way forward we might as well pack it all in now cus otherwise the scene is well and truly fcuked.

I totally agree with you Mace

It's time we all grew up and pulled together for each other,

cos I for one do not want to lose the nighter scene.

chalky, i do like lifeline, Ive been to the stables and even way back at sheridans.

Keep up the good work and lets all of us move forward and support each other