Detroit Question

[Dave Moore]

Just reading Keith's Detroit book (Bravo Keith, it's fantastic), and in the Rainbow/Ernstrat/Terra Shirmha chapter he mentions the licensing of "Yes I Love You Baby to Laurie Records. Now, I may be completely out of the the loop here but has anyone actually seen a bona fide 60s Laurie release? We've been aware of the tenuous link to Laurie via the 70s reissue/boot whatever on the label but I don't know of anyone who actually owns a 60s Laurie 45. Does anyone out there possess one and if so has anyone ever seen a DEMO of it?

Cheers,

Dave

[Neil Rushton]

Just reading Keith's Detroit book (Bravo Keith, it's fantastic), and in the Rainbow/Ernstrat/Terra Shirmha chapter he mentions the licensing of "Yes I Love You Baby to Laurie Records. Now, I may be completely out of the the loop here but has anyone actually seen a bona fide 60s Laurie release? We've been aware of the tenuous link to Laurie via the 70s reissue/boot whatever on the label but I don't know of anyone who actually owns a 60s Laurie 45. Does anyone out there possess one and if so has anyone ever seen a DEMO of it?

Cheers,

Dave

Didn''t Laurie's deal give them the rights to distribute the Ernstrat label - just like they distributed the later releases on Drew?

[Dave Moore]

Didn''t Laurie's deal give them the rights to distribute the Ernstrat label - just like they distributed the later releases on Drew?

Hi Neil,

Although the distribution deal was in place I'm not sure whether the Dynamics was actually released on Laurie as a 45? Keith says the Dynamics 45 was 'licensed to' Laurie and I know it's one of those 'mythical' 45s that some people say "I saw it in the Casino Record Bar in 1974" but I don't know anyone who actually has one. You evers een one?

Cheers,

Dave

[Premium Stuff]

Hi Dave

Never seen a genuine 60s Laurie copy myself.

Cheers

Richard

[Ian Dewhirst]

Hi Neil,

Although the distribution deal was in place I'm not sure whether the Dynamics was actually released on Laurie as a 45? Keith says the Dynamics 45 was 'licensed to' Laurie and I know it's one of those 'mythical' 45s that some people say "I saw it in the Casino Record Bar in 1974" but I don't know anyone who actually has one. You evers een one?

Cheers,

Dave

Nah, I don't think it exists on an original Laurie copy. Does anyone know what year this deal was done? My guess is that Laurie had been finding success with some of their other Northern stuff, primarily Dean Parrish "I'm On My Way" which they re-issued and then licensed out to Johnathan King's UK label and then Casino Classics etc, etc and they probably picked the Dynamics up so they could sell a few thousand copies in the UK and hopefully do another Dean Parrish........

Ian D

Edited April 24, 2010 by Ian Dewhirst

[Premium Stuff]

Nah, I don't think it exists on an original Laurie copy. Does anyone know what year this deal was done? My guess is that Laurie had been finding success with some of their other Northern stuff, primarily Dean Parrish "I'm On My Way" which they re-issued and then licensed out to Johnathan King's UK label and then Casino Classics etc, etc and they probably picked the Dynamics up so they could sell a few thousand copies in the UK and hopefully do another Dean Parrish........

Ian D

Manship's Guide says 1975

Cheers

Richard

[Kev Moore]

Can someone tell me which copy this is as I've heard there were west coast and east coast copies. This is a different design to the w/d I used to have years ago.

Thanks

Kev

[Premium Stuff]

Can someone tell me which copy this is as I've heard there were west coast and east coast copies. This is a different design to the w/d I used to have years ago.

Thanks

Kev

West Coast Blue Issue

Cheers

Richard

[Kev Moore]

West Coast Blue Issue

Cheers

Richard

Thanks Richard that's cleared that up.

Kev

[Dave Pinch]

the commonist form of this 45( if thats the right phrase to use) is one of two variations of the white demo, the east coast one which was pressed up at the same pressing plant as all the original mid/late 60`s laurie pressings. also a lot of the rca & ric ( in my tenement / the hurt) 45`s were done at the same place. not necessarily done by laurie but i think thats the tree they were trying to bark up when they booted it mid 70`s. never seen a 60`s laurie press of this 45

dave

[Premium Stuff]

The blue West Coast issue seems to be the rarest and most valuable.

Here are Popsike scans of the WDJ variants.

West Coast - Styrene

Italic Text - Vinyl (?)

Block Text - Vinyl

Cheers

Richard

Edited April 25, 2010 by Premium Stuff

[Prophonics 2029]

Isn't the Laurie version a different take against the Top Yen copy, I have it on a Goldmine CD somewhere and also from the master tapes.

[Funky 4 Corners]

Isn't the Laurie version a different take against the Top Yen copy, I have it on a Goldmine CD somewhere and also from the master tapes.

The information I quoted in the book about the Laurie / Ernstrat deal came from a business statement surounding the formation of Tera Shirma. Martin Koppel obtained it in the mid 70s. It went into a lot of detail which I had originally reproduced in the book but when the project was eventually collated, the page count was way over 400 and so we had to do some severe editing. If any one wants me to reproduce it on here I'd me happy to do so. Probably because I wasn't looking for it, I never saw or heard of a Laurie copy from '68 - '72 ish but I have a couple of thoughts - firstly I guess that Laurie were in the business of buying up quite a lot of material to have in their vaults that could be reissued as and when they felt it commercially viable, rather than immediately. And two, I do recall Jim Hunt who worked for Relic Records in New Jersey and possibly Martin Koppel both saying that the Laurie release was rarer than the Top Ten issue. This I think was possibly based upon the fact that no one had ever seen one?? If anyone has access to a Laurie discography, does that show anything?

Regarding my Laurie release. In the 80s I was offered a lot of ££ for my Top Ten copy and so sold it and like many others, simply bought a Laurie copy for pennies. It has a delta # of 96255 which I think makes it a Monarch pressing from LA around 1973? But I don't know if it is legitimate or not.

Incidentally, earlier in this thread the Drew label is mentioned. Since the printing of the book, Leonard King Jr (of Leonard King & the Soul Messengers on Inferno) was telling me about his dad's juke box business in Detroit in the 60s and mentioned that he worked a lot with a guy called Arthur Drew "who was into records as well as juke boxes".

[Dave Moore]

The information I quoted in the book about the Laurie / Ernstrat deal came from a business statement surounding the formation of Tera Shirma. Martin Koppel obtained it in the mid 70s. It went into a lot of detail which I had originally reproduced in the book but when the project was eventually collated, the page count was way over 400 and so we had to do some severe editing. If any one wants me to reproduce it on here I'd me happy to do so. Probably because I wasn't looking for it, I never saw or heard of a Laurie copy from '68 - '72 ish but I have a couple of thoughts - firstly I guess that Laurie were in the business of buying up quite a lot of material to have in their vaults that could be reissued as and when they felt it commercially viable, rather than immediately. And two, I do recall Jim Hunt who worked for Relic Records in New Jersey and possibly Martin Koppel both saying that the Laurie release was rarer than the Top Ten issue. This I think was possibly based upon the fact that no one had ever seen one?? If anyone has access to a Laurie discography, does that show anything?

Regarding my Laurie release. In the 80s I was offered a lot of ££ for my Top Ten copy and so sold it and like many others, simply bought a Laurie copy for pennies. It has a delta # of 96255 which I think makes it a Monarch pressing from LA around 1973? But I don't know if it is legitimate or not.

Incidentally, earlier in this thread the Drew label is mentioned. Since the printing of the book, Leonard King Jr (of Leonard King & the Soul Messengers on Inferno) was telling me about his dad's juke box business in Detroit in the 60s and mentioned that he worked a lot with a guy called Arthur Drew "who was into records as well as juke boxes".

Hi Keith,

Firstly, many congrats on the book, it's a great informative read and I'm sure will be well thumbed by many over the years. A big Well Done Matey.

Without wishing to add to your workload would it be possible to see in your notes if there is any definitive info on the Dynamics 45 as far as the Laurie distribution deal was concerned? With the link to Ernstrat going back to when it does and the mythical status of the Laurie 45 BEFORE the boot/reissue/pressing in 1973 maybe it can now be be positively identified as existing or not?

Ref: Arthur Drew: Neil Rushton would be the man to ID any link there. His recent collaboration with George McGregor brought forward quite a bit of Drew related info.

Once again, congrats on the book, I daresay we'll be back with even more questions as it's reread again and again.

Regards,

Dave

[Funky 4 Corners]

Hi Keith,

Firstly, many congrats on the book, it's a great informative read and I'm sure will be well thumbed by many over the years. A big Well Done Matey.

Without wishing to add to your workload would it be possible to see in your notes if there is any definitive info on the Dynamics 45 as far as the Laurie distribution deal was concerned? With the link to Ernstrat going back to when it does and the mythical status of the Laurie 45 BEFORE the boot/reissue/pressing in 1973 maybe it can now be be positively identified as existing or not?

Ref: Arthur Drew: Neil Rushton would be the man to ID any link there. His recent collaboration with George McGregor brought forward quite a bit of Drew related info.

Once again, congrats on the book, I daresay we'll be back with even more questions as it's reread again and again.

Regards,

Dave

[Funky 4 Corners]

Hi Dave Sorry for this long delay. I did try posting this about 10 days ago but f*cked up the up-load! Then went to Cornwall for a week. Anyhow, this is the exact wording of Martin Koppel's article that appeared in HBS magazine #52 in the summer of '77. I did read the original that he sent to Chris Savory and have retained the various spellings and other inaccuracies.

INSIGHT INTO TERRA SHERMA (Martin Koppel)

For many years as an avid Detroit and Northern Soul Collecor I have often wondered who or what Ernsrat and Terra Sherma was. Fortunately, a few weeks ago I was able to see a copy of the company's prospecturs of business.

In the period of 1964 to 1968 when the pre-psychedelic hits of Motown were topping the charts, labels, production companies sprouted everywhere. Even larger companies tried to cash in on the boom by signing up local talent. Wand had people like Gino Washington, Masqueraderes, Timmy Shaw and Diane Lewis, whilst other labels like RCA has Lorraine Chandler, Michael & Raymond, Willie Kenrick and the Dynamics.

On the of the more successful companies was Ernstrat Productions Incorporated, also called the 350 Corporation. This was organised by Ernie Stratten on the 13th August 1965. Due to the limited amount of capitol, rather than concentrating on trying to successfully start a competitive label Ernis Stratten decided to get involved in the leasing of recording facilities. Previously he had been using the United Sound Studios, then the Rainbow Recording Studios - both in Detroit. However then he built his own offices and a 4 track studio at 15305 Livernois. On March 9th 1966 the name, studios, production and publishing company was sold out and it became a public corporation. The name of the studio as changed to the Terra-Sherma Sound Studios (from the new President and Vice-Presidet's names). The chief officers of the new company were Ralph Terrana aged 24: President, treasurer and director; Al Sherman, 54 Vice-President and Director; Ita J. Jaffer, 27, Company Secretary and Director; Frederick Koterko, Director and Production Manager; and as Chief Engineer they hired Milar Bogden.

As it had (possible outside of Motown) the best production facilities in the city the studios became more and more used and they increased the cost of hiring the recording studios from $20-$40 to £35-£55 per hour. Gross studio rental income rose from $1,701.25 for the month of February 1966 to $2,766.50 for July to $4,335.27 for September 1966.

The problem of expansion was again hampered by lack of working capitol even tho' the company owned 4 record lables, the publishing rights to 40 songs, and had obtained 3 further lables and 6 more songs. Unortunately I was unable to determine all of the labels. At this time stockholders were found and there was a slight influx of capitol and they used monies to build a $250,000 ultra modern 8 track studio. This heavy outlay of capital seemed to be the turning point in the decline of the company. Early in 1969 the stockholders wanted answers as to why so much money was now being lost. The company went bankrupt and the lawyers took possession. Terrana & Sherman I understand went to work for Motown, Bogden started his own Bumpshop & GM labels (northern hits like Turn of the Century "Money can't" on Bumpshop, and Fork In The Road "Can't turn around no" on GM).

In the summer of 1970 the studios were sold to Gold Soul at a massive loss of $85,000. However, Gold Soul couldn't meet the payments and the lawyers took it back and sold the contents of the building. Now all that is left is an empty shell.

On the record scene the only record I have seen in the Ernsrat Label was the much loved "Haed and Shoulders" by Patti Young, one of the more successful records and publications they owned, which they sold on 12/29/65 to Goal Productions Incorporateed of New York. Later released on the Laurie label was the Dynamics "Yes I love you baby/Soul sloppy" which aslo came out on their own Top Ten label (there was one other release by the Dynamics on Top Ten). The names and labels associated with the Terra-Sherma Studios reads like a who's who of Detroit soul classics - Karen, Carla, De-to, Popcorn Wylie, Ollie McLaughlin, Mike Terry, Milton Right and the Terra-Sherma strings. Suffice to say that if a record came out of Detroit in the era and it was not part of Motown or Wingate then it is odds on that part of the processing of it was done in the Terra-Sherma studios.

[Bo Diddley]

Here's a Laurie Discog. Haven't read all of the previous longer posts.

https://www.globaldog...o/l/laurie.html

The Dynamics issue number on Laurie is 3627. On the Discog that number is allocated to a group called Hucklebuck and issued in 1975. Can't see the Dynamics on the list.

Also, the sound quality on the Laurie version is crap/distorted. I'm no expert but all that points to it not being a legit 1960's thingy!

Always makes me smile if I hear it out and the sound distorts - particularly at OVO venues.

(Please Note: -No offence was intended in any of the above comments. Buyers/sellers should not rely on any information provided by me when making a purchase/sale. The value of records can go down as well as up. No animals were hurt in the posting of these comments.)

KB.

[Guest Perception]

Nah, I don't think it exists on an original Laurie copy. Does anyone know what year this deal was done? My guess is that Laurie had been finding success with some of their other Northern stuff, primarily Dean Parrish "I'm On My Way" which they re-issued and then licensed out to Johnathan King's UK label and then Casino Classics etc, etc and they probably picked the Dynamics up so they could sell a few thousand copies in the UK and hopefully do another Dean Parrish........

Ian D

Thats sounds spot on. Unless something turns up, I would agree with Ians guess.