Is R'nb More To Do With Northern Soul

[manus]

It's just that, whilst I understand R&B is not to everyones taste, especially the more Rockin' varity (which I think we ALL agree shouldn't be played at NS events) I struggle to understand how anyone into soul music can be so dismissive of the gritty soul tunes that are more accurately representative of 60s R&B.

For example, are you saying that none of the grittier Atlantic/Stax catalogue has ever appealed to you.

...and what of the Duke/Peacock catalogue......from Bobby Blands vast output, to the likes of Bud Harper etc.

Regards

Mace

I agree the raw gritty Soulful RnB tunes should be played but not those with a rock and roll tempo good as these may be they belong on a different scene.

I do think tunes such as below should be played with an RnB base but definite Rare/Northern Soul appeal

LITTLE WILLIE JONES - YOU ARE WELCOME TO TRY - VRC -

[Johnmcc]

Northern soul is uptempo dance music of black tamla origin but can encompass seventies/eighties etc with the right sound.It has nothing to do with r&b,jazz,RARE SOUL,doo wop,latin,popcorn or any other trendy labels people want to call it.It is NORTHERN SOUL.There are plenty of gigs without the term NORTHERN SOUL on the tin as it is a word that is not in vogue. The current word is RARE SOUL.Do not be confused as this word has nothing to do with NORTHERN SOUL.Expect mid tempo,funky latin,popcorn and ballads.Anything apart from uptempo black music.Sometimes the term NORTHERN SOUL has bad connoctations from the seventies ie OLDIES.(Not moved on).NORTHERN SOUL are words to be proud of and not added to a flyer as an afterthought. There is history in the term that no amount of Adidas beard stroking trendy media glasses wearing beardos can steal or attempt to understand.

Talk about rewriting history!

Not sure what connoctations are though.

I'm glad I'm not on the northern soul scene.

John (Trying to grow an Adidas beard)

[KevH]

Northern soul is uptempo dance music of black tamla origin but can encompass seventies/eighties etc with the right sound.It has nothing to do with r&b,jazz,RARE SOUL,doo wop,latin,popcorn or any other trendy labels people want to call it.It is NORTHERN SOUL.There are plenty of gigs without the term NORTHERN SOUL on the tin as it is a word that is not in vogue. The current word is RARE SOUL.Do not be confused as this word has nothing to do with NORTHERN SOUL.Expect mid tempo,funky latin,popcorn and ballads.Anything apart from uptempo black music.Sometimes the term NORTHERN SOUL has bad connoctations from the seventies ie OLDIES.(Not moved on).NORTHERN SOUL are words to be proud of and not added to a flyer as an afterthought. There is history in the term that no amount of Adidas beard stroking trendy media glasses wearing beardos can steal or attempt to understand.

Black tamla origin....well at first.Then cue all the west coast Wigan faves.White guys in garages.Uptempo white music.

Rare Soul.....no to be confused..nothing to do with Northern Soul.....anything apart from uptempo black music.... you are having a laugh now - are'nt you? .

[Mark S]

Ko ko Taylor , Gwen Mcrae two outstanding RnB artists with records that fit the northern soul template , Fats Domino it keeps raining one of my all time favorites Northern or RnB who cares its brilliant and that doesnt fit the template .

I personally have never heard a DJ play out and out Rock and roll or doo wop at a soul event , having said that there are some blurry edges, but isnt that what keeps the scene moving .

If the punters dont like it the DJ will soon get the message

[Guest sarahleen]

i agree with webby and wiggy ( woudnt that be a great name for a duo )

i go to a lot of venues and iv lost count of the amount of times iv heard people say " im so sick of all this old s***" ( please excuse our northern straight talk !)

i really love the kind of uptempo 60s r n b that was played at say burnley but its all been played before on the scene, its nothing new , it just goes round in cycles thats all,

of course r n b is a massive part of northern soul/soul and always has been , r n b is at souls very foundations but some of the what we hear played out DOES sound like rock n roll/doo wop and im honestly not the only one saying that, loads of people are . nearly entire sets played of that EARLY r n b and old slow doo wop rubbish , and how stuff from 60/61 ,or before that , can be classed as soul anyway is beyond me ?

soul music is in the main dance music and came about as a reaction to all that boring old undancable stuff

ok the odd old one fits in but come on a lot of its just NOT soul/dance music

and its the old/early stuff im refering to before anyone jumps down my throat

tin hat on

Edited April 14, 2010 by sarahleen

[Corbett80]

"There is history in the term that no amount of Adidas beard stroking trendy media glasses wearing beardos can steal or attempt to understand. "

If by this you mean adverts such as the one currently showing i can see where you might form this view. But a lot of the beardy Adidas wearing people who frequent soul clubs nowadays all over the world have very strong knowledge of northern and rare soul music that you should be aware of.

Edited April 14, 2010 by corbett80

[Ezzie Brown]

We are Mods !

We are mostly in our late 30s and early 40s now.

We never went to the Wigan Casino because we were too young.

But we all collect 60s records.

We collect and learn as much as we can about 60s RnB .........Ska.........Soul....popcorn... Latin....... etc

We restore 60s Lambrettas and still get our clothes made at the tailors.

Many big Mod RnB spins have gone massive on the Soul scene over the last 20 years.

Otis Lee ....Charles Sheffield ......Carl Underwood, just to name a few.

Most Mod people I know like a bit of everything , from the early 60s 45s right up to the new releases like the new Kings go forth LP

That's why we are different to you old soul boys !

We don't have the same musical hang ups as you lot IMO

Mod lads will buy unknown 60s RnB n popcorn 45s the same day as a classic 60s beat rarity turns up for sale.

Mods have had similar tastes in Soul music to Soul boys at times (Stafford era) ............but things have moved apart again recently.

I think you have to take your hat off to the Mod scene

These lads do what they do, and they dont give a fook about anyone else !

........................looks like im almost a mod then.. .....minus the clothes an scooter , and soft fuzzy facial hair ..............very good post mate,..some of the big mod tunes you refer to were on the popcorn scene earlier to................ im movin more to northern up tempo again after a period of doo wop / teen/ popcorn and r &b..............but its all got its own little gems hidden away......pigeon holing styles, prob the silliest part of the scene....the more you look the more chance you got of finding something differant to enjoy..........get webby on at bidds i say. then we will see what he is made of, i will if hewiill, its just persuading mace that the roblem arises , cheers ez

Edited April 14, 2010 by ezzie brown

[timthemod]

Most big R&B tunes on the Northern Scene, like Charles Sheffield etc were massive on the Mod/R&B scene first and have then crossed over. Being that in generally terms, R&B is between RNR and Soul in the development of popular music, although I know R&B has been around since the 1940's, I'm talking in terms of the tunes we dance to, some older and current R&B tunes on the Mod/R&B scene are closer to what's being played at Rockin' clubs. I don't go to loads of Northern do's, but I can't think of any R&B big tunes that broke on the Northern Scene first!

[Guest JimSLH]

Id walk off the dance floor to this does nothing for mesuppose thats what has been said about peoples personal taste

Edited April 14, 2010 by JimSLH

[Epic]

Have followed this thread very closely & one question is burning away inside.................................what qualifies a person as an expert on socks ? or if you prefer Webby - Sox !!!!!

[Chris L]

I think R'n'B is a viable soul gendre and the apprieciaters of said gendre should be respected and not made fun off And as a poet Webb you suck

Most R n B I've heard sounds like it's been recorded in an airport toilet. The ONLY reason it's barged it's way onto the soul scene is that people who "didn't make it" first time round or have come on the the scene much later want to make (or to be seen making) a contribution today and as most, if not pretty much all, Motownesque sounds (Motown is 50 years old today !!) have been discovered and played on the scene only this low 'nee' no quality R n B is out there. R n B gets camoulflaged as being "the" progressive soul sound of today, never was so much poppycock written by so few................

Like Rock & Roll? Webby, don't insult the Rockers of this world.....................

Edited April 14, 2010 by Chris L

[Guest sarahleen]

Most big R&B tunes on the Northern Scene, like Charles Sheffield etc were massive on the Mod/R&B scene first and have then crossed over. Being that in generally terms, R&B is between RNR and Soul in the development of popular music, although I know R&B has been around since the 1940's, I'm talking in terms of the tunes we dance to, some older and current R&B tunes on the Mod/R&B scene are closer to what's being played at Rockin' clubs. I don't go to loads of Northern do's, but I can't think of any R&B big tunes that broke on the Northern Scene first!

those two statements , your winding all us up arnt you ? you cant be serious

and as for charles sheffield a brilliant example of an r n b song that is NOT soul and whats the b side called again ?

[Corbett80]

'but I can't think of any R&B big tunes that broke on the Northern Scene first!'

Mickie Champion, was Cookie Jackson on Progress Stafford first? I think there are a few examples, but ultimately it doesn't really matter either way does it?

Edited April 14, 2010 by corbett80

[Tiggerwoods]

If you think these sound like Rock and Roll, then quite frankly your ears must be painted on.

There are plenty of R&B tracks that are IMO borderline R&R, but they would never be played in Northern rooms, so i don't see the problem with them.

Well said!

[Guest sarahleen]

but I can't think of any R&B big tunes that broke on the Northern Scene first!

Mickie Champion, was Cookie Jackson on Progress Stafford first? I think there are a few examples, but ultimately it doesn't really matter either way does it?

i guess it depends wich mod scene you are refering to, the 60s scene or a later mod scene or now ?, im not sure wich you mean .

northern has always had massive popular tunes that are very r n b . off the top of my head

youngblood smith - quit

terrible tom - we were made

king casuals - haze

bobby hill - bitter end

john and the weirdest - no time

theres just so many , r n b runs through all soul like a thread anyway

maybe a couple were big on the original mod scene ( i dont know i wasnt there ) -no time- certainly wasnt , but they are examples of big northern classics ( imho) that have a definate r n b influence and sound to them

id name some , only SOME ! from burnley that were also played on the northern scene back in the day (according to old friends and a few r n b ones i remember hearing too ) but i dont know what the hell any of them are called lol er no one did ha ha , but thats all part of the fun

and no it dosnt matter where stuff got played first , of course not , but it was you who kind of suggested that it did , not me , and early doowop and r n b is not soul and shoudnt be made out that it is , especially to paying customers who are expecting soul , sorry but i just dont think stuff like charles sheffield is soul

ps , some fantastic uptempo r n b heavy soul was played at burnley btw

Edited April 14, 2010 by sarahleen

[Davetay]

RnB songs played as Norhern Soul, most of them are not for me they are far to old.

There has been a few over the years that have rocked my boat, but alot of them sound like a cross between Rock n Roll and Country n Western.

Sorry but I find most of them f**kin boring and utter shite, but if we all the like the same stuff life we be really boring.

I find it strange that alot of the younger crowd like the older stuff.

As one of the mods said in a earlier post age group late 30s to mid 40s and most of our are crowd late 40s to mid 50s.

Dave.

Edited April 14, 2010 by davetay

[Reg]

off topic posts deleted

[Tiggerwoods]

sorry Webby , no disrespect here but you clearly started this thread to be controversial and within 1 post proved you're out of your depth here

I agree .... and now its turned into a pretty pointless thread.

[Guest sarahleen]

'Kin ell Webby, you will be asking if Modern is soul or just disco shite next !!!!!!!!

and as a customer who wants to dance to northern soul , dare i say it "across the board ", id rather dance to - clarence reid - its hell trying to get to heaven - 1979 ( but still r n b ish in its disconess ) than some of the old doowop ancient r n b stuff thats been mentioned on this thread , anyday

Edited April 14, 2010 by sarahleen

[Guest sarahleen]

I agree .... and now its turned into a pretty pointless thread.

why ?

and webby probably knows more about soul music and its history than most people on this thread

Edited April 14, 2010 by sarahleen

[Reg]

I'm not sure what this thread's purpose really is? Thre isn't really a subject as such, just a sweeping statement?

To wind up the R&B fans?

Boredom

Mischief making?

You can't really expect to start a thread like this and not get any comeback from some of the lads on here Phil. And I don't want to keep removing off topic posts to be honest.

Maybe you would be better off sticking to freebasing

[Denbo]

In answer to the question "Is R&B more to do with Northern Soul or more to do with R&R", and without going off on a tangent trying to compare like for like and ranting on about likes and dislikes of either, (IMO) R&B has more to do with Northern Soul than R&R, as R&B and Northern Soul was predominantly performed and appreciated, on the whole, by mostly black Americans, whereas R&R was mostly more inclined towards, and more likely appreciated by, the white Americans. QED!!!

I hope this does not upset or insult anybody, as that is / was not my intention.

[Guest sarahleen]

I'm not sure what this thread's purpose really is? Thre isn't really a subject as such, just a sweeping statement?

To wind up the R&B fans?

Boredom

Mischief making?

You can't really expect to start a thread like this and not get any comeback from some of the lads on here Phil. And I don't want to keep removing off topic posts to be honest.

Maybe you would be better off sticking to freebasing

webby is obviously talking about EARLY r n b in comparison to to rock and roll and northern soul and trying to raise a very important issue (imho) on the scene today, that no one seems to be allowed to talk about

its blindingly obvious that we ALL love r n b or we woudnt be on this site , this is a soul forum for crying out loud

do the r n b/doowop mafia honestly think that the northern scene hasnt ALWAYS had massive r n b style sounds ! ! ! !

maybe the northern soul folks on here would be "better off" leaving altogether and letting them get on with it and their apparent belief that theyr the ones who discovered the r n b style "rare" soul sound !

as said said earlier it "dosnt matter " who discovered it , that wasnt webbys question

Edited April 14, 2010 by sarahleen

[Reg]

webby is obviously talking about EARLY r n b in comparison to to rock and roll and northern soul and trying to raise a very important issue (imho) on the scene today, that no one seems to be allowed to talk about

its blindingly obvious that we ALL love r n b or we woudnt be on this site , this is a soul forum for crying out loud

do the r n b mafia honestly think that the northern scene hasnt ALWAYS had massive r n b style sounds ! ! ! !

maybe the northern soul folks on here would be "better off" leaving altogether and letting them get on with it and their apparent belief that theyr the ones who discovered the r n b style "rare" soul sound !

Important issue? It's been done to death?

If you like raking over old ground maybe start another Oldies/Newies or CD/Vinyl Thread

I also think if you're going to bring up a subject in such a controversial way that you know enough about the subject matter to be cross examined.

Half baked musings are more facebook if you ask me.

[KevH]

webby is obviously talking about EARLY r n b in comparison to to rock and roll and northern soul and trying to raise a very important issue (imho) on the scene today, that no one seems to be allowed to talk about

its blindingly obvious that we ALL love r n b or we woudnt be on this site , this is a soul forum for crying out loud

do the r n b mafia honestly think that the northern scene hasnt ALWAYS had massive r n b style sounds ! ! ! !

maybe the northern soul folks on here would be "better off" leaving altogether and letting them get on with it and there belief that theyr the ones who discovered the r n b style "rare" soul sound !

Errrr... .

Anyway,30 - 40 years ago when the scene was evolving,there was no Modern,Crossover as such, to compare with in the NS/ RnB/Club world.

Nowadays with the popularity of the former and Across the Board nites,(and 40 years of shifting sands !!),the gulf between Rnb and Modern does tend to date some of the RnB tracks.

The inclusion of Rnb at northern nights is a direct result of an opposition to the more Modern,crossover sounds.Careful selection of some Rnb tracks is the key.?

Rudy Love - Sufferin Wrath..NS or RnB ?

Life's too short......do what you can do...........

And Webby....no more please.....

Edited April 14, 2010 by KevH

[macca]

Northern soul is uptempo dance music of black tamla origin but can encompass seventies/eighties etc with the right sound.It has nothing to do with r&b,jazz,RARE SOUL,doo wop,latin,popcorn or any other trendy labels people want to call it.It is NORTHERN SOUL.There are plenty of gigs without the term NORTHERN SOUL on the tin as it is a word that is not in vogue. The current word is RARE SOUL.Do not be confused as this word has nothing to do with NORTHERN SOUL.Expect mid tempo,funky latin,popcorn and ballads.Anything apart from uptempo black music.Sometimes the term NORTHERN SOUL has bad connoctations from the seventies ie OLDIES.(Not moved on).NORTHERN SOUL are words to be proud of and not added to a flyer as an afterthought. There is history in the term that no amount of Adidas beard stroking trendy media glasses wearing beardos can steal or attempt to understand.

So what category do records like the nightliters, cal tjader, and the dynatones fall into then? Not northern?Webby, if you're going to quote Dylan in your opening post, get the bugger right. It's 'I'm a poet, and I know it, hope I don't blow it.'

I think you may have blown it.

R&B is the bedrock, nay, the very cornerstone of the all-nighter scene,

I know that 'cos I bought the Kent Birth of Soul CD.

[Guest sarahleen]

Errrr... .

Anyway,30 - 40 years ago when the scene was evolving,there was no Modern,Crossover as such, to compare with in the NS/ RnB/Club world.

Nowadays with the popularity of the former and Across the Board nites,(and 40 years of shifting sands !!),the gulf between Rnb and Modern does tend to date some of the RnB tracks.

The inclusion of Rnb at northern nights is a direct result of an opposition to the more Modern,crossover sounds.Careful selection of some Rnb tracks is the key.?

Life's too short......do what you can do...........

And Webby....no more please.....

errr what ?

and re "modern,crossover" (whatever that means ) yes there damn well was was , they were called "newies" , instead of all the daft and confusing names theyr given today and years ago a dj new how to blend the two , oldies (mainly 60s) and newies (mainly 70s and some 80s), together in one main room

Edited April 14, 2010 by sarahleen

[Guest Matt Male]

errr what ?

and re "modern,crossover" (whatever that means ) yes there damn well was was , they were called "newies" , instead of all the daft and confusing names theyr given today and years ago a dj new how to blend the two , oldies (mainly 60s) and newies (mainly 70s and some 80s), together in one main room

Nope, newies were new discoveries, 60s, 70s, whatever. Quite a few were 60s, hence '60s newies'.

[KevH]

errr what ?

and re "modern,crossover" (whatever that means ) yes there damn well was was , they were called "newies" , instead of all the daft and confusing names theyr given today and years ago a dj new how to blend the two , oldies (mainly 60s) and newies (mainly 70s and some 80s), together in one main room

I did say "as such." You know what i mean by Modern and crossover.Not getting further into this,just to say when IE:Carstairs was played at the Mecca as a newie, the terms didn't exist.But still heard Carstairs alongside George Blackwell,Jerry Fuller,Herbert Hunter.etc...no-one complained then.

But 30-40 years on with the introduction of more Modern tunes............you know what fook it...............

[Guest sarahleen]

Nope, newies were new discoveries, 60s, 70s, whatever. Quite a few were 60s, hence '60s newies'.

i disagree lol

newies were new sounding and usually late 70s early 80s

"new 60s" were "new oldies" for a while but then became oldies quite quickly

and by the term "oldies " i dont just mean classics

oh dear lol , where this all going lol

and to get it back on topic , dont remmeber much rock n roll at all really lol

edit apart from the brilliant carstairs wich will always be a newie until the end of time

Edited April 14, 2010 by sarahleen

[macca]

In 1976/7, I remember grumbling about funk & disco, not newies. As Kev said, a newie was a record that a jock was trying to break, whether a 60s recording or a 70's recording. That's the way I remember it, at least.

[Guest Matt Male]

i disagree lol

newies were new sounding and usually late 70s early 80s

Disagree all you like, you're still wrong.

Anyway i'm still waiting for someone to post up a tune that sounds rock and roll and shouldn't be played in a northern room, but has been played out recently. Anyone got an example?

Edited April 14, 2010 by Matt Male

[Guest Matt Male]

In 1976/7, I remember grumbling about funk & disco, not newies. As Kev said, a newie was a record that a jock was trying to break, whether a 60s recording or a 70's recording. That's the way I remember it, at least.

Me too Macca and everyone i know.

[macca]

i disagree lol

newies were new sounding and usually late 70s early 80s

"new 60s" were "new oldies" for a while but then became oldies quite quickly

and by the term "oldies " i dont just mean classics

oh dear lol , where this all going lol

and to get it back on topic , dont remmeber much rock n roll at all really lol

So the first time I heard Tamala Lewis in 1977/8, I was hearing a new oldie then?

I disagree, respectfully of course.

[Chalky]

Nope, newies were new discoveries, 60s, 70s, whatever. Quite a few were 60s, hence '60s newies'.

quite right Matt, a newie was a new record to the scene regardless of the year.

[Guest sarahleen]

you lot know loads more than me so your probably right

but thats why i love coming on here and still learning

its all part of it ,

i was just talking in general and the way i percieved it

Edited April 14, 2010 by sarahleen

[Chalky]

We are Mods !

Many big Mod RnB spins have gone massive on the Soul scene over the last 20 years.

Otis Lee ....Charles Sheffield ......Carl Underwood, just to name a few.

so you're saying that the likes of Otis Lee and Carl Underwood were big on Mod & R&B scene before Northern? I bet it was more like the other way round.

[Guest sarahleen]

In 1976/7, I remember grumbling about funk & disco, not newies. As Kev said, a newie was a record that a jock was trying to break, whether a 60s recording or a 70's recording. That's the way I remember it, at least.

at least i didnt mention jazz funk !

[Denbo]

The ONLY reason it's barged it's way onto the soul scene is that people who "didn't make it" first time round or have come on the the scene much later want to make (or to be seen making) a contribution today

There's many a respected 'old fart' on the New Breed R&B scene who spent most of their youth on the Northern scene, whilst collecting, mostly for their own pleasure at home, as well as Northern records they loved so much, R&B records that were being totally passed over by many of their contempories at the time. It's now, that there is a scene revolving around those very same records they collected 'then', that thankfully allow them to introduce them back to us all, 'now'. So let's not get those people confused with the people you are being derisive towards here.

[Guest sarahleen]

Disagree all you like, you're still wrong .

Anyway i'm still waiting for someone to post up a tune that sounds rock and roll and shouldn't be played in a northern room, but has been played out recently. Anyone got an example?

oh i will and do "like" to

maybe its just that i started going to venues later than you (1980) and "we" saw it differently

but it must be a lot more confusing for people today who are just getting into it than it was for us , because there are so many more terms in use and different perceptions of what they mean

incidently re "crossover" , crossover is a term i heard used by punks in the late 70s , its a term used in many music circles not just northern . to me it means a type of sound or band that crosses over into into another genre other than its own eg - the talking heads - new wave and funk

Edited April 14, 2010 by sarahleen

[Reg]

Re the Mod scene subject, I think that 6Ts more than anything had an influence on what was played on the Mod Scene in the 80s. Although a lot of the R&B played was original stuff played at the old Mod clubs from the 60s.

Whether some of those sounds were revived at Stafford or anywhere else I'm not sure. it's all a bit chicken/egg around that time. Tracks like Johnny Nahh, Love aint nothing for example.

Mace/Mossy/Joe would know

[Chalky]

oh i will and do "like" to

maybe its just that i started going to venues later than you (1980) and "we" saw it differently

Sarah, Matt was there in the 80's same as many of us and a newie was a simply a new record to the scene even in the 80's which was well known for its 60's newies and many records that were discovered then are still often referred to as a 60's newie for some reason.....

[Guest Beeks]

Webbydublin talking out of his arse? Not really a surprise is it...stick to pleasing your groupies in freebasing

[Ezzie Brown]

Most R n B I've heard sounds like it's been recorded in an airport toilet. The ONLY reason it's barged it's way onto the soul scene is that people who "didn't make it" first time round or have come on the the scene much later want to make (or to be seen making) a contribution today and as most, if not pretty much all, Motownesque sounds (Motown is 50 years old today !!) have been discovered and played on the scene only this low 'nee' no quality R n B is out there. R n B gets camoulflaged as being "the" progressive soul sound of today, never was so much poppycock written by so few................

Like Rock & Roll? Webby, don't insult the Rockers of this world.....................

i concluude you must be a very important member of the "scene " so please give us the names of these fly by nights who have , barged in ......to your scene .........cos they didnt make it ,,,,,,,,,make what ?????? the status you think you have achieved perhaps .... polluted the northern scene with there rock and roll,. .................... then go back and listen to all the white pop songs and charting pop soul tunes caterogised as northern ,some of which i liked and bought at the time, i admit, and come back and start again, regards ezzie, i expect im on the list,

Edited April 14, 2010 by ezzie brown

[macca]

It's not really worth falling out over, is it? I never went to the Torch/cats. Had I been born two years earlier, I may well have gone, but I wasn't. Ever since I got into this scene, I've heard people eulogising rapturously over the earlier venues, but each person has their time and place. If I really could choose, I'd be a claret slurping, wench shagging toff on a grand tour of Italy and Greece in 1820. Bugger Northern Soul.

[Ezzie Brown]

I did say "as such." You know what i mean by Modern and crossover.Not getting further into this,just to say when IE:Carstairs was played at the Mecca as a newie, the terms didn't exist.But still heard Carstairs alongside George Blackwell,Jerry Fuller,Herbert Hunter.etc...no-one complained then.

But 30-40 years on with the introduction of more Modern tunes............you know what fook it...............

i can remember the carstairs being first played, and it was so differant to the rest of the playlists it was a groundbreaking tune., which as far as i remember was universaly liked and demanded .............sure i never heard the term "newie " applied to anything till i returned to the scene in the late 90s..........ez

Edited April 14, 2010 by ezzie brown

[Guest sarahleen]

Sarah, Matt was there in the 80's same as many of us and a newie was a simply a new record to the scene even in the 80's which was well known for its 60's newies and many records that were discovered then are still often referred to as a 60's newie for some reason.....

but i also said that ,

i also said that "a newie became an "oldie" " and as i remmeber it the early 80s wasnt particulally well known for its 60s newies anymore than anything else although of course loads of 60s "newies" were first played then , i remmember a mixture

i also remmember "newies" being called "disco" in a derogatory way by the hard core oldies crowd and floors clearing to many late 70s , even in the early 80s EVEN to the carstairs, many years after it was first played

venues like rotherham was known for its "newies " ezzie , a term used THEN

Edited April 14, 2010 by sarahleen

[Mace]

Re the Mod scene subject, I think that 6Ts more than anything had an influence on what was played on the Mod Scene in the 80s. Although a lot of the R&B played was original stuff played at the old Mod clubs from the 60s.

Whether some of those sounds were revived at Stafford or anywhere else I'm not sure. it's all a bit chicken/egg around that time. Tracks like Johnny Nahh, Love aint nothing for example.

Mace/Mossy/Joe would know

The mid to late 80s Mod scene was pulling new tunes from all sorts of sources to be honest.

A lot of Northern and R&B from 100 Club and Stafford was crossing over, and there was shed loads of latin/boogaloo being discovered.

I was personally buying tunes from soulies in Stoke (Butch, Jim Bates, Tim Ashibende, Keith Minshull, Blondie etc)

So for my part the Northern scene was certainly feeding my hunger for tunes.

Dom Bassett and Rob Messer were obviously sourcing stuff from the 100 Club and the older mods such as Paul Hallam & Shirley.

Dave Darlow from Scarborough used to turn out masses of tapes with new tunes, not sure where hes was getting his stuff but he was on top of his game.

Back to for the R&B angle, I remember buying Jimmy Preacher Ellie on Jewel of Butch for about £15 around this time, along with Freddie North 'The hurt' and Joe Douglas on Playhouse.

The categories were far less important back then, it was either good or bad music.....surely the way it should be?

I never go out and hear a full night of tunes I like.....I don't know if I would want to if the truth be to.

I'd rather get the chance to hear something I didn't like for the first time, than something I do for the millionth

I had some blurt at Rugby telling me that the current Rare Soul events were just playing 2nd class B sides and the music had no feeling.

It's the folks who want to hear the same old same old who have lost the feeling in my opinion.

Carry on living your 'groundhog day' routine week in week out...can't imagine how you ever got into this scene if you never want to hear anything different to be honest.............

Edited April 14, 2010 by Mace

[Guest sam]

The mid to late 80s Mod scene was pulling new tunes from all sorts of sources to be honest.

A lot of Northern and R&B from 100 Club and Stafford was crossing over, and there was shed loads of latin/boogaloo being discovered.

I was personally buying tunes from soulies in Stoke (Butch, Jim Bates, Tim Ashibende, Keith Minshull, Blondie etc)

So for my part the Northern scene was certainly feeding my hunger for tunes.

Dom Bassett and Rob Messer were obviously sourcing stuff from the 100 Club and the older mods such as Paul Hallam & Shirley.

Dave Darlow from Scarborough used to turn out masses of tapes with new tunes, not sure where hes was getting his stuff but he was on top of his game.

Back to for the R&B angle, I remember buying Jimmy Preacher Ellie on Jewel of Butch for about £15 around this time, along with Freddie North 'The hurt' and Joe Douglas on Playhouse.

The categories were far less important back then, it was either good or bad music.....surely the way it should be?

I never go out and hear a full night of tunes I like.....I don't know if I would want to if the truth be to.

I'd rather get the chance to hear something I didn't like for the first time, than something I do for the millionth

I had some blurt at Rugby telling me that the current Rare Soul events were just playing 2nd class B sides and the music had no feeling.

It's the folks who want to hear the same old same old who have lost the feeling in my opinion.

Carry on living your 'groundhog day' routine week in week out...can't imagine how you ever got into this scene if you never want to hear anything different to be honest.............

Well said Mace,good or bad music does it matter if its uptempo rhythm and soul,latin,popcorn?

Got to agree with others that this thread was obviously done on purpose to wind the r and b lovers of us on soul source.

Quite frankly Id never tell anyone what to listen to if they like it so frankly cant see the point of these pointless jabs at the r and b scene and this or that,if you want to listen to wigan oldies then good on you,if you want to listen to music that wouldnt sound out of place in a 70s porn movie then listen to modern.

[Mike]

Tut Tut! Personal insults.....usually the sound of desperation

I know how to get a debate going though dont l,arsehole or not

sorry but throwing up some half arsed comment and then stirring up with playground insults is not debate imo

suggest you drop your smug posts and think before you post anything similar