Collecting British...why Bother?

[Guest Paul]

What exactly is a CBS advance sleeve then?

See, there are things you haven't discovered yet, Pete!

You said you're still finding new things every few months. Maybe next month you'll find one?

[Tai-pan]

think your heads up your own ass mate, how can you say that there is a small uk collecting scene and its in your view a toy hobby sort of thing, ive never heard such crap. you seem to really think that you know everything and belong to some sort of soul royalty and just look down on us uk collecting soul paupers.i myself collect uk demos but also collect usa records,and know a hell of a lot of uk collectors so how can you say its a small collecting scene i think the soul scene could do without shallow opinionated small minded tossers like yourself

Okay its not a small collecting scene then, if that makes you happy, I understand how relatively small numbers can overwhelm and bewilder amaoebas.

However, I've never referred to you or anyone as a pauper, what I did refer to you as was a single soululler organism. Your confirmation that you also collect USA 45s, doesn't prove that you are any further up the evolutionary scale, on the contrary, you are most likely to be a very confused single soululler organism, a little sad, but never mind at least you're happy.

So apart from me being a shallow opinionated small minded tosser, do actually have anything at all of value to add to the thread? Naturally, being Soul Royalty I would invite you to deliver a response with respect and due accord.

Edited March 27, 2010 by Tai-Pan

[Sheldonsoul]

Okay its not a small collecting scene then, if that makes you happy, I understand how relatively small numbers can overwhelm and bewilder amaoebas.

However, I've never referred to you or anyone as a pauper, what I did refer to you as was a single soululler organism. Your confirmation that you also collect USA 45s, doesn't prove that you are any further up the evolutionary scale, on the contrary, you are most likely to be a very confused single soululler organism, a little sad, but never mind at least you're happy.

So apart from me being a shallow opinionated small minded tosser, do actually have anything at all of value to add to the thread? Naturally, being Soul Royalty I would invite you to deliver a response with respect and due accord.

think a few people reading this think i might of added something of value to this thread

[Barry]

I know I'm the last to talk but it's getting a bit silly now chaps.

[Guest Paul]

Well I don't "collect" anything, I just like music and happen to have a lot of records, books and musical equipment etc.

Most of my 45s are American but I have a soft spot for my UK 45s because they have sentimental value (being born and raised in the UK at a time when US imports weren't very available or affordable) and in most cases they are higher quality - or at least more consistent - and also more visually interesting (in my subjective opinion).

By the way, one of the reasons why some UK pressings are higher quality than US pressings is because so many of them were pressed in very small quantities so there was hardly any wear to the stampers, whereas some American companies would run the same pair of stampers until they were almost ruined ...resulting in some very poor pressings.

In general it's also fair to say that disc cutting and pressing standards were often higher in the UK and there was less use of recycled vinyl, especially in the days when the US had massive shortages of raw materials. Of course there were (and are) excellent cutting rooms and pressing plants in the US but at one time there was also a large number of inferior plants who often turned out some inferior products. It has to be said.

Most 'scene' records have probably been discovered as far as UK releases are concerned, but as I'm into all kinds of soul and black music (and a few other things) I think I'll always have new things to discover.

So many soul records were issued in the UK during the '60s and '70s that most people will only ever get to hear a portion of them. Of course there were obviously far more released in the US but that doesn't mean people shouldn't explore UK 45s too.

A bit of both is the answer ...oh no, I think I'm turning bilingual.

[Johnty]

theres nothing better than seeing 2 red and whites spinning round on the decks at an oldies night mind

nothing wrong seeing the red & whites spinning around on a wednesday night either

[Chalky]

Try and keep this on topic folks and less of the personal stuff

[pogo paul]

Okay its not a small collecting scene then, if that makes you happy, I understand how relatively small numbers can overwhelm and bewilder amaoebas.

However, I've never referred to you or anyone as a pauper, what I did refer to you as was a single soululler organism. Your confirmation that you also collect USA 45s, doesn't prove that you are any further up the evolutionary scale, on the contrary, you are most likely to be a very confused single soululler organism, a little sad, but never mind at least you're happy.

So apart from me being a shallow opinionated small minded tosser, do actually have anything at all of value to add to the thread? Naturally, being Soul Royalty I would invite you to deliver a response with respect and due accord.

If it is a small collecting scene , explain the high values these discs achieve, and the demand for them.

Look through the listings of the classic British labels, are you seriously suggesting you wouldn't be interested in a mint demo of a Northern classic.

The rare soul scene is a British phenomonon, these records are the roots of the scene.

Your posts are irratating and come acoss as a wind up.

Edited March 27, 2010 by chalky

[Chalky]

I just asked for you all to leave out the personal stuff Anymore and will simply remove the posts.

[Tai-pan]

If it is a small collecting scene , explain the high values these discs achieve, and the demand for them.

Look through the listings of the classic British labels, are you seriously suggesting you wouldn't be interested in a mint demo of a Northern classic.

The rare soul scene is a British phenomonon, these records are the roots of the scene.

Your posts are irratating and come acoss as a wind up.

Pogo Paul,

Go back to the original opening post of this thread, and read it. I have expressed a view. Just because British collectors don't agree, why get personal. My sarcastic remarks have been a response to personal digs and insults. I would say my posts have been kind, humored and restrained.

Now to your points;

I agree with you the rare soul scene is a British Phenomenon. The early scene did rely to a large part on British re-issues of American releases, but the enduring health and progress of the scene has rested on American only releases, the vast majority on minor labels. Hence British releases are NOT the roots of the scene, they are the roots to what would have been a FAD, if not for the early dealers and DJs going to America and unearthing these obscure American releases, then the scene would have died out in the early 70's. So Pogo Paul, you are Wrong, in my opinion.

I collect a little, so have a valid opinion to contribute to the thread, my view in response to the original opening post of the thread is clear. Just because some collectors have focused their collecting endeavors on British releases then that is their call. If they find my view irritating, then I am not responsible for that, they will have to look within themselves for the source of that emotion. Could it be regret, realisation or even boredom perhaps? I don't know, but each to their own. I'll stick to original US 45's, with all its colour, risk and the chance that I might, just might, find something on an obscure ohio label, just outside of Toledo, that had 3 releases, which turns out to be a cracking new Northern Soul discovery of the highest musical quality. Now isn't that something that makes the pursuit of collecting really worthwhile?

Call me a purist, call me a snob; value of British Releases?, enjoy!.... so think about it..... is it really me that carries that baggage?

Kind regards,

Andy

[dthedrug]

Contributing to the thread with my opinion on the strange habit of collecting boring unexciting and limited British Soul Releases.

Dave, what's your opinion, and how can you defend a soul record collecting scene based on re-issues and limited richness of quality and scope?

Now the point of records was at the time only a very few people collected records out of the top 20, it was my fortune to meet a Sound System owner who took me with him when he bought new sounds, as such places like MUSIC CITY SHOPS Brixton market were all places that exited myself and my record collecting roots were formed. In 1970 I acquired my first SOUL imports, Stevie Wonder "nothings to good for my baby" on TAMLA, Tammie Terrel's "this old heart of mine" Earl van Dyke "the Flick" VIP and so on most available exports were mainly R&B OR UPTEMPO BLUES? MOST SOUL RECORDS WERE ON THE Action label and Tamla Motown Atlantic & STAX this continued into the hunt for more elusive and exclusive finds. at this time I met MICK SMITH who has always been a mentor and Sage and its through Mick I learnt about RARE SOUL I Have never tried to compete with the Micks and ANDY'S on the scene preferring to collect my way and get stoned but if it was not for UK reggae and soul there would not be any scene at all. and Pete is right with his 3 rules. T0 conclude over the YEARS I must of collected 25000 records but its my UK collection that means the world "Ready Willing & Able" green & White Demo can be played at any time in my book, try and find a copy buy it play it enjoy it and then wind your neck back in and you will be respected DAVE I TOLD YOU! KIL

Edited March 28, 2010 by chalky
post edited as tales of kickings, veiled threats etc have no place on this topic or forum. Please stick to the topic in question.

[Godzilla]

... If you know me, you will no know that I can defend myself and whoever is with me! phys9caly and psychologically also socially,

Right I will give you an insight to my psyche. as a teenager I was very much a juvenile delinquency, as such I has little faith in the system and violently rejected all things that represented authority, or just weird? hence the Hippies and Grebs were there for me to hit .... For myself life was about getting a reaction from the norm, to shock the system that had become all poncified in 66/67 I had issues abut calling people "MAN" or saying "That's COOL" "DIG"

So you were pretty violent and so mixed up that you that thought that hippies and bikers represented "authority" - Oh hang on you also said "weird"

Ok, so you were willing to give a kicking to anyone whose appearance or manners you didn't agree with and that intolerance is is now used to justify making threats to someone who has different views on collecting records. That's collecting records. Wow.

People collect different stuff and some of their views on what constitutes a scene and its precursors differs. No need to resort to fisticuffs old man.

[Tai-pan]

Now the point of records was at the time only a very few people collected records out of the top 20, it was my fortune to meet a Sound System owner who took me with him when he bought new sounds, as such places like MUSIC CITY SHOPS Brixton market were all places that exited myself and my record collecting roots were formed. In 1970 I acquired my first SOUL imports, Stevie Wonder "nothings to good for my baby" on TAMLA, Tammie Terrel's "this old heart of mine" Earl van Dyke "the Flick" VIP and so on most available exports were mainly R&B OR UPTEMPO BLUES? MOST SOUL RECORDS WERE ON THE Action label and Tamla Motown Atlantic & STAX this continued into the hunt for more elusive and exclusive finds. at this time I met MICK SMITH who has always been a mentor and Sage and its through Mick I learnt about RARE SOUL I Have never tried to compete with the Micks and ANDY'S on the scene preferring to collect my way and get stoned but if it was not for UK reggae and soul there would not be any scene at all. and Pete is right with his 3 rules. T0 conclude over the YEARS I must of collected 25000 records but its my UK collection that means the world "Ready Willing & Able" green & White Demo can be played at any time in my book, try and find a copy buy it play it enjoy it DAVE KIL

Wind the intimidation in Dave, its dull, boring and doesn't work, particularly with me. I'll PM you offline about that.

Understand from your story why you have stuck with collecting British, I think this passion and early connection with the music, when most things available were on British format is what has cemented the 'bond' to the British releases for UK collectors. I do think the UK collectors are 'hard core' and this reflects the price holds.

My point is that they are mainly re-issues, and so not the 'real thing' in my opinion. I know someone who collects boots and reissues, he says that the pressings (boot) mentality over the years became the backbone on which the scene developed, and if it wasn't for the availability in the late 70s of boots and pressings their would be no scene today. He's very proud of his collection and sites some very very rare pieces (albeit they are boots). I think, people collect what they want because it means something to them, whether its British, Pressings, US Originals or Pokemon cards, each to their own, its what make life interesting.

KTF

[Sheldonsoul]

Wind the intimidation in Dave, its dull, boring and doesn't work, particularly with me. I'll PM you offline about that.

Understand from your story why you have stuck with collecting British, I think this passion and early connection with the music, when most things available were on British format is what has cemented the 'bond' to the British releases for UK collectors. I do think the UK collectors are 'hard core' and this reflects the price holds.

My point is that they are mainly re-issues, and so not the 'real thing' in my opinion. I know someone who collects boots and reissues, he says that the pressings (boot) mentality over the years became the backbone on which the scene developed, and if it wasn't for the availability in the late 70s of boots and pressings their would be no scene today. He's very proud of his collection and sites some very very rare pieces (albeit they are boots). I think, people collect what they want because it means something to them, whether its British, Pressings, US Originals or Pokemon cards, each to their own, its what make life interesting.

KTF

thats exactly what you should have said in the first place andy, instead of seemingly trying to belittle/upset us uk collectors. pete

[Guest aintgotit]

thats exactly what you should have said in the first place andy, instead of seemingly trying to belittle/upset us uk collectors. pete

Surely there is collateral knowledge of the minutiae of label and vinyl authentication in relation to correct identification of genuine vs counterfeit labels titles and pressings ,many individuals are responsible for their searches hard won experience and inscrutable knowledge which is shared with you and other collectors , without a thought to your status , or judgement of your attainment before judging you sufficiently worthy of their time and knowledge.yet you have a scene to regard as maintained and healthy and to regard from the point you choose to avail yourself of.So please , if its of value to you , try to preserve the importance of all contributors or adversaries . without them you have no worth at all.

[AlanB]

My point is that they are mainly re-issues, and so not the 'real thing' in my opinion.... I think, people collect what they want because it means something to them, whether its British, Pressings, US Originals or Pokemon cards....

KTF

I think you're missing the point describing the collectable UK releases (of US originals) as reissues. In the main they were the contemporary UK "editions" of US releases. A similar point could be made, for example, about US releases of Beatles records - many people collect these, and not just the UK issues on Parlophone. Most UK soul collectors distinguish (and look down on) those records that were specifically reissued to cater for demand in the 70s onwards from the Northern soul scene.

I do agree that people collect because of what it means to them - and UK releases on Stateside, London etc do evoke memories for people, like me, of a certain vintage.

Alan

[Guest Dave Turner]

For me it's whatever floats yer boat.

British from the classic period, say 1964-72

US originals

French/Belgian/Dutch with those tasty picture sleeves

Unusual releases ie from Sweden, Lebanon, the Congo etc etc

Single label collections (Minit, Goldwax etc)

Single city collections (detroit, Chicago, Philly etc)

Pye Disco Demand

On the number of tracks for £s ratio some folks collect CD's and can play 1000's of tracks whereas someone else will have just two records for the same money.

All have their collectors with different budgets and differing reasons for collecting what they do.

Who is anyone to say to anyone else what is right to collect or not.

As long as one enjoys collecting what they collect then surely at the end of the day that's what collecting anything is all about ---- ENJOYMENT

That said I've now got to go and mow the f'kin' grass

Edited March 28, 2010 by Dave Turner

[Chalky]

off topic and personal posts deleted. One or two others being looked at.

Keep this on topic and knock the personal stuff on the head, no need for it and some of it uncalled for.

[Pete S]

Surely there is collateral knowledge of the minutiae of label and vinyl authentication in relation to correct identification of genuine vs counterfeit labels titles and pressings ,many individuals are responsible for their searches hard won experience and inscrutable knowledge which is shared with you and other collectors , without a thought to your status , or judgement of your attainment before judging you sufficiently worthy of their time and knowledge.yet you have a scene to regard as maintained and healthy and to regard from the point you choose to avail yourself of.So please , if its of value to you , try to preserve the importance of all contributors or adversaries . without them you have no worth at all.

Was it really worth you getting your thesaurus out to write that rubbish?

[KevH]

Surely there is collateral knowledge of the minutiae of label and vinyl authentication in relation to correct identification of genuine vs counterfeit labels titles and pressings ,many individuals are responsible for their searches hard won experience and inscrutable knowledge which is shared with you and other collectors , without a thought to your status , or judgement of your attainment before judging you sufficiently worthy of their time and knowledge.yet you have a scene to regard as maintained and healthy and to regard from the point you choose to avail yourself of.So please , if its of value to you , try to preserve the importance of all contributors or adversaries . without them you have no worth at all.

That's easy for you to say.... .

[Guest Gogs]

Now that we're back on topic, how about some more of those nice label scans, Here's a couple to get started

[Pete S]

Now that we're back on topic, how about some more of those nice label scans, Here's a couple to get started

Anything after 1970 doesn't count

[Bo Diddley]

Anything after 1970 doesn't count

Will this do??

[Pete S]

Will this do??

*swoon*

[Bo Diddley]

*swoon*

Here's another one!

[Bo Diddley]

*swoon*

[Guest Gogs]

two pre-1970

[Jez Jones]

Here's another one!

wow,wow and thrice wow!

[Rotherham Soul]

most of the uk stuff i own has superior sound recording than their us counterparts,

Isn't it true that a lot of British releases were dubbed from disc and not a master tape?.One that springs to mind is The Du-Ettes on President (Evry Beat Of My Heart) shocking sound quality!.Sure I've read cthat Darrell Banks on London Demo is a Disc dub whereas the Stateside release was cut from tape,and the majority of Motown releases were dubbed from disc too:ohmy:

Edited March 28, 2010 by rotherham soul

[Pete S]

Isn't it true that a lot of British releases were dubbed from disc and not a master tape?.One that springs to mind is The Du-Ettes on President (Evry Beat Of My Heart) shocking sound quality!.Sure I've read cthat Darrell Banks on London Demo is a Disc dub whereas the Stateside release was cut from tape,and the majority of Motown releases were dubbed from disc too:ohmy:

Can't see London dubbing from disc to be honest, you're right about some of the President releases though! Worst sound quality on a UK record must be Dee dee Sharp - Bye bye baby (red Atlantic)

[Louise]

Anything after 1970 doesn't count

You Bloody Philistine Pete (see collins mini Thesaurus, page 435 for meaning)

Dave W

Edited March 28, 2010 by Louise

[soulAdequateNP]

Isn't it true that a lot of British releases were dubbed from disc and not a master tape?.One that springs to mind is The Du-Ettes on President (Evry Beat Of My Heart) shocking sound quality!.Sure I've read cthat Darrell Banks on London Demo is a Disc dub whereas the Stateside release was cut from tape,and the majority of Motown releases were dubbed from disc too:ohmy:

I think it was Tony Rounce who originally posted about the London Darrell Banks being a dub from a Revilot 45 - apparently the demos were pressed on spec before the deal was finalised (which from a legal point of view makes it a very expensive boot n'est-ce pas )

[Guest aintgotit]

Was it really worth you getting your thesaurus out to write that rubbish?

now now, if you cant say anything nice ,,,

[Pete S]

now now, if you cant say anything nice ,,,

I'd never post anything!

[Guest aintgotit]

I'd never post anything!

i take your point ,it was rubbish , fair,but rubbish, its good to see you two get along so well .your probably quite good mates, im grateful for the insight.

[Pete S]

i take your point ,it was rubbish , fair,but rubbish, its good to see you two get along so well .your probably quite good mates, im grateful for the insight.

Who's probably quite good mates, you've lost me?

[Chalky]

Last time.....lets get back on topic PLEASE!

[Guest MBarrett]

For me it's whatever floats yer boat.

British from the classic period, say 1964-72

US originals

French/Belgian/Dutch with those tasty picture sleeves

Unusual releases ie from Sweden, Lebanon, the Congo etc etc

Single label collections (Minit, Goldwax etc)

Single city collections (detroit, Chicago, Philly etc)

Pye Disco Demand

On the number of tracks for £s ratio some folks collect CD's and can play 1000's of tracks whereas someone else will have just two records for the same money.

All have their collectors with different budgets and differing reasons for collecting what they do.

Who is anyone to say to anyone else what is right to collect or not.

As long as one enjoys collecting what they collect then surely at the end of the day that's what collecting anything is all about ---- ENJOYMENT

Great empathy and emotional inteligence.

The world is currently running a deficit of said traits.

More of the same please!

MB (Cancerian )

[Pete S]

Last time.....lets get back on topic PLEASE!

Chalky, you're being overzealous.

Back on topic.

Collecting British means that you're always in with a chance of finding that one elusive item. Collecting American, you often never get that chance, ever.

I think I've found every single British release I ever wanted and although I've got very few now, I know one day they will turn up again. You can't say that about your Don Gardners etc

[Chalky]

Chalky, you're being overzealous.

Back on topic.

maybe, maybe not, but i opened the topic four times before my post to find each time a post that was nothing to do with the topic in question.

[Pete S]

maybe, maybe not, but i opened the topic four times before my post to find each time a post that was nothing to do with the topic in question.

Chap made a strange statement purporting to be about the topic, though that's a moot point

[Guest Paul]

I love the flip side

...sorry I forgot to say which record I was talking about: Bobby Sheen 'Sweet Sweet Love'.

Edited March 28, 2010 by Paul

[AlanB]

Worst sound quality on a UK record must be Dee dee Sharp - Bye bye baby (red Atlantic)

Loretta Williams - Baby Cakes also on red Atlantic is even worse I think.

Alan

[Guest Gogs]

I love the flip side

...sorry I forgot to say which record I was talking about: Bobby Sheen 'Sweet Sweet Love'.

Thank you Paul , was wondering what you were on about.

[Guest WPaulVanDyk]

Nothing beats owning some British soul singer s munot sic on UK release where a US release was not made.

but i will collect both UK and US

[Guest Gogs]

but i will collect both UK and US

[Wiggyflat]

Nothing beats owning some British soul singer s munot sic on UK release where a US release was not made.

but i will collect both UK and US

Some great stuff UK only

Britt-You Really Have Started Something

Gene Latter-Ways

Stewart Brown-Dont Call Me (great track on RCA)

The Exotics-I Dont Want Nobody To Lead Me On (issued twice 2 diff versions)

Soulmates-Saying Something

Carl Douglas-Crazy Feeling

Chants-Ive Been Trying

Ive got a record on the UK Paradox label with press sheet (can't remember record) brown label

Tonny Rich-Dont Mention Her Name

Detours-Hanging On

Sue Lynn-Baby Baby Baby

Flirtations-Hold On To Me Babe (Don't think this got a US release)

Salena Jones-Baby Dont Get Crazy

UK CBS thing female singer the track is Something To Hold On To.mmmm

Got a great maximum sound studios acetate of a track called Call Me A Friend

Going to have to rifle through my UK boxes......seems to me there's loads of mod style stuff that came out in the UK.I'm not bothered whether its US or UK but prefer UK produced stuff on UK labels.Loads of UK stuff seemed to come out on Parrott in the US.

Edited March 29, 2010 by wiggyflat

[Guest Gogs]

Gene Latter-Ways

Talking about Gene Latter how good is this, always been one of my favourites

[Wiggyflat]

Talking about Gene Latter how good is this, always been one of my favourites

Great stuff, Gene released quite a lot of records. Suprised there hasn't been a comp.Im sure he was asian as Ive a pic cover from 66/67 where he is wearing an earring.Who was the bloke that did Hey Little Boy on CBS?

Tony Wilson-What Did I Do

Jimmy Thomas-Springtime

Notations-Need Your Love (Great track on Chapter One Records)

Mixtures-Monkey Jazz (this sounds like moondance....ten years before Moondance)

The James Galt Tracks In My Own Way and a Most Unusual Feeling (got a spare US copy on Arora although Im sure he is British)

[Guest Gogs]

Great stuff, Gene released quite a lot of records. Suprised there hasn't been a comp.Im sure he was asian as Ive a pic cover from 66/67 where he is wearing an earring.Who was the bloke that did Hey Little Boy on CBS?

Tony Wilson-What Did I Do

Jimmy Thomas-Springtime

Notations-Need Your Love (Great track on Chapter One Records)

Mixtures-Monkey Jazz (this sounds like moondance....ten years before Moondance)

The James Galt Tracks In My Own Way and a Most Unusual Feeling (got a spare US copy on Arora although Im sure he is British)

Never heard of a comp but while checking out jm's just bought this

https://www.raresoulm.../d/57177/LATTER,_GENE

So you just cost me MONEY, i will have to deal with you later

Edited March 29, 2010 by Gogs