Collecting British...why Bother?

[Chris Anderton]

Does anyone still really seriously collect British? I mean it may have been ok in the 70s but as all of the best records came out on US labels first whats the point in collecting what are essentially re-issues of the original US release?

Chris

[max millward]

Does anyone still really seriously collect British? I mean it may have been ok in the 70s but as all of the best records came out on US labels first whats the point in collecting what are essentially re-issues of the original US release?

Chris

hi chris, your'e just too young to understand!!

whippersnapper!!

max...

[Sean Hampsey]

Bedrock of the Northern soul scene Chris.

All the Top tunes, when I were a lad, were on UK labels.

Of the 30 'Soul Sounds' bootlegs that were done (back in the day) only one (Leon Haywood) had not received a UK release, which highlights their significance.

I guess once the bootlegging think took off, in the early 70's, the only way you'd know you weren't getting ripped off was if you collected British as UK releases were much harder to copy and easier to identify and authenticate.

To some extent, that's still the case!

Besides, as a collector, very few things looks better, to my eyes, than a nice box of Stateside, London American, Sue, Action, TMG's etc. in Black & Silver or Red & White. They always get me salivating to this day!

But my weakness is, I collect everything... and I still get pretty excited even with a box of 'big holes' infront of me!

Sean

[Guest Paul]

To be fair, most UK releases were our 'regional' issues, certainly not 're-issues', and many came out at a time when import copies were generally unavailable (or unaffordable) to school kids anyway.

To me, the significant point is that I first discovered soul music mostly via UK record companies and UK radio stations and juke boxes etc so I'll always have a soft spot for records on British labels that I bought when I was a kid.

There became a point in time when we all had easy access to vast quantities of US 45s at low prices (mostly overstocks and deletions) but I reckon most of us first heard those tracks from their UK releases on labels such as Stateside, Tamla Motown, London, Bell, Invictus, Hot Wax, Action, Mojo, President/Jay Boy, Contempo etc - not to forget the hundreds of UK 45s issued by Polydor and EMI on Stax and Atlantic labels of course.

I think there's something extra nostalgic (and even a bit "romantic") about UK labels from my teenage years. It may be a "fetish" but that's how I feel.

I'm not so bothered about rarity but I'd say that many UK label demos, for example, are much harder to find than many US label demos, purely because much smaller quantities were pressed and circulated.

I'm off to fondle some british demos now.

[Guest Paul]

By the way, I'm not very keen on British labels trying to make UK (or EU) 45s look like American records by dinking out the centres.

With my own labels, Ardent/Zing/Forever and more recently Selecta/Shotgun, I always prefer small centre-holes and regular 85.0 mmm labels.

All of the Grapevine 45s I worked on were also "proper" UK style records. And the first five Soul Junction 45s were actually mastered, printed and pressed in the USA so there's nothing "fake" or "look-a-like" about them.

And the 45s issued on Garry Cape's revived Hit And Run label were also lacquered, printed and pressed in the US so they are genuine US pressings. Garry wisely agreed that he would rather press in the US than try to impersonate them.

The 45s I pressed for Soul Intention (Phil Dick) are EU pressings but made to look American. There's nothing at all wrong with that, I'm just saying that my personal preference is for British companies to press British-style records (or EU these days of course).

Right now I'm pressing records in the EU for Eli Reed and for Capitol/EMI USA and they want them to look American but they are American clients so I guess that's okay.

If only I could press 45s with those beautiful optional press-out centres ...but I suppose that's another fetish thing.

[Steve G]

Does anyone still really seriously collect British? I mean it may have been ok in the 70s but as all of the best records came out on US labels first whats the point in collecting what are essentially re-issues of the original US release?

Chris

For many of us Chris, having a box of fantastic soul records on British labels still holds an attraction. It's where the UK scene started before imports became the norm. I also often wonder what the guys in the record companies in London were doing putting out some of the records they did. Steve

Edited March 23, 2010 by Steve G

[Pete S]

UK records make me go weak at the knees, and that's just looking at them!

[Guest Paul]

For many of us Chris, having a box of fantastic soul records on British labels still holds an attraction. It's where the UK scene started before imports became the norm. I also often wonder what the guys in the record companies in London were doing putting out some of the records they did. Steve

Very true, Steve.

In some cases, it may well be that their licensing agreement committed them to issue a certain amount of product per year. Or if they didn't issue a particular track, a rival label could get second option etc.

I know in many cases a sub-publisher could only retain rights to a song (or a catalogue of songs) if they procured a UK release so I guess they may have pressured a label (or used their own label) to issue a record just to increase their long-term rights.

At one time, it was common for rights to revert to assignors unless there had been commercial activity within 12 months, so there was an incentive to issue a record in the UK just to avoid losing rights to a bunch of songs.

I'm pretty sure that a few records would have been issued on President/Jay Boy, for example, just to obtain long-term publishing rights for their owners, Kassner Music.

[Ted Massey]

theres nothing better than seeing 2 red and whites spinning round on the decks at an oldies night mind

[Guest Dave Turner]

Bedrock of the Northern soul scene Chris.

All the Top tunes, when I were a lad, were on UK labels.

Of the 30 'Soul Sounds' bootlegs that were done (back in the day) only one (Leon Haywood) had not received a UK release, which highlights their significance.

I guess once the bootlegging think took off, in the early 70's, the only way you'd know you weren't getting ripped off was if you collected British as UK releases were much harder to copy and easier to identify and authenticate.

To some extent, that's still the case!

Besides, as a collector, very few things looks better, to my eyes, than a nice box of Stateside, London American, Sue, Action, TMG's etc. in Black & Silver or Red & White. They always get me salivating to this day!

But my weakness is, I collect everything... and I still get pretty excited even with a box of 'big holes' infront of me!

Sean

Oh yes, like yourself Sean I always did, and in fact still do, love to see a nice British collection. I well remember "back in the day" often being amazed to learn that this track or that was put out on British ie Frankie & the Classicals, Sandy Wynns, Lou Johnson etc etc. Just something about them that I can't explain, perhaps apart from the look of them it's knowing the dedication someone has had to put a nice collection together.

Did think about collecting them myself at one time but my collecting interests took me along another route.

No doubt there were plenty of others collecting British in the early 70's but I remember I always used to drool looking through Steve Glovers box. Anyone know if he's still about and if so is he still collecting British?

[Guest Paul]

UK records make me go weak at the knees, and that's just looking at them!

Same here, we've all got an incurable fetish.

"I'm staying in tonight to look at some records."

[Daniel Harvey]

Have to say that British labels are just so damn pretty...especially the demo's for tamla motown and stateside.

I've just recently been biten by the British collecting bug...however in my case is has nothing to do with nostagia...I was born 20 years after most them were released and so for me there is no such emotion attatched...for me just having British releases and aussie ones too seems even more special than having the US copy....maybe for the reason that it seems hard to believe they got overseas release at all and so many of them have a real feeling of obsurity attatched...

Just recently I have buying up British demo's of aussie groups from the 60's like the twilights and whilst not soul related it just gives me a real buzz to have them and look after them....the green and white Britsh Columbia demos just look fantastic.

Its a similar feeling to the other night when my mate bought along his aussie copy of the metros - since I found my baby and it boggles the mind to think how a release that barley got the time of day in the US made it out to aus.

anyhow thats my take on it.

[Guest]

Bedrock of the Northern soul scene Chris.

All the Top tunes, when I were a lad, were on UK labels.

Of the 30 'Soul Sounds' bootlegs that were done (back in the day) only one (Leon Haywood) had not received a UK release, which highlights their significance.

I guess once the bootlegging think took off, in the early 70's, the only way you'd know you weren't getting ripped off was if you collected British as UK releases were much harder to copy and easier to identify and authenticate.

To some extent, that's still the case!

Besides, as a collector, very few things looks better, to my eyes, than a nice box of Stateside, London American, Sue, Action, TMG's etc. in Black & Silver or Red & White. They always get me salivating to this day!

But my weakness is, I collect everything... and I still get pretty excited even with a box of 'big holes' infront of me!

Sean

Spot on Sean, I know a few people who only collect British releases which, because less of em were pressed, are naturally much rarer on their UK labels than on the original American issue. I, like you, am not that fussy (or wealthy) and get giddy at the sight of any full box of Soul sounds, its just in the blood I guess.

[Guest]

Bedrock of the Northern soul scene Chris.

All the Top tunes, when I were a lad, were on UK labels.

Of the 30 'Soul Sounds' bootlegs that were done (back in the day) only one (Leon Haywood) had not received a UK release, which highlights their significance.

I guess once the bootlegging think took off, in the early 70's, the only way you'd know you weren't getting ripped off was if you collected British as UK releases were much harder to copy and easier to identify and authenticate.

To some extent, that's still the case!

Besides, as a collector, very few things looks better, to my eyes, than a nice box of Stateside, London American, Sue, Action, TMG's etc. in Black & Silver or Red & White. They always get me salivating to this day!

But my weakness is, I collect everything... and I still get pretty excited even with a box of 'big holes' infront of me!

Sean

Spot on Sean, I know a few people who only collect British releases which, because less of em were pressed, are naturally much rarer on their UK labels than on the original American issue. I, like you, am not that fussy (or wealthy) and get giddy at the sight of any full box of Soul sounds, its just in the blood I guess.

[Shsdave]

Does anyone still really seriously collect British? I mean it may have been ok in the 70s but as all of the best records came out on US labels first whats the point in collecting what are essentially re-issues of the original US release?

Chris

I'm with you on this one Chris, in as far as Imports always held a fascination for me, names I'd never heard of (even today !!!) turning up, colourful, hundreds just look so obscure & so much more interesting than UK labels.

[Mike Lofthouse]

Plenty of posts on how pretty they look - and that is very true!! but sound wise give me a UK release any day - would sooner have a Bobby Bland (for example) on Action, Sue or Vocalion than those awful Duke pressings any day

[John Reed]

I've never been either a motown, demo or UK collector, but there is something special about a green/white or Red/white Tamla record going round a deck. I could be wrong, but weren't the sound quality better on some UK pressings?

[joe lakin]

Plenty of posts on how pretty they look - and that is very true!! but sound wise give me a UK release any day - would sooner have a Bobby Bland (for example) on Action, Sue or Vocalion than those awful Duke pressings any day

true

[grant]

I've never been either a motown, demo or UK collector, but there is something special about a green/white or Red/white Tamla record going round a deck. I could be wrong, but weren't the sound quality better on some UK pressings?

most of the uk stuff i own has superior sound recording than their us counterparts,

[Ian Dewhirst]

[quote name='John Reed' date='23 Mar 2010 - 02:30 PM' timestamp='1269354601' post='1292732'

I've never been either a motown, demo or UK collector, but there is something special about a green/white or Red/white Tamla record going round a deck. I could be wrong, but weren't the sound quality better on some UK pressings?

[funkyfeet]

Chris, there's some great music coming out on UK labels today and over the last few years, many of the tracks are un-issued or impossible to own on American issue, so what better than having them issued in the UK, the Artists get something out of the deal, also if they didn't get issued then there's a good chance that they would get booted anyway.

BUY BRITISH - TOMORROW COLLECTABLES TODAY

[Guest Paul]

Chris, there's some great music coming out on UK labels today and over the last few years, many of the tracks are un-issued or impossible to own on American issue, so what better than having them issued in the UK, the Artists get something out of the deal, also if they didn't get issued then there's a good chance that they would get booted anyway.

BUY BRITISH - TOMORROW COLLECTABLES TODAY

You should open a shop, you'd make a good salesman

[Guest john s]

If only I could press 45s with those beautiful optional press-out centres ...but I suppose that's another fetish thing.

You can now!

https://www.urpressing.com

just hope no bootleggers read this!

[Steve G]

I've never been either a motown, demo or UK collector, but there is something special about a green/white or Red/white Tamla record going round a deck. I could be wrong, but weren't the sound quality better on some UK pressings?

Yes sometimes the UK pressing was better quality - especially so with styrene US pressings I guess! Sometimes it was worse though - I remember Rouncey telling us how Darrell Banks on London was dubbed from disc - so there even a Revilot styrene would potentially be better, and a Stateside copy most certainly would be. No hard and fast rules here, but sometimes yes that's true.

I love US records for the reason Dave Greenhill says, but also love my British.

[Chris Anderton]

I realise that in the early days of the scene that British stuff was the only way to get most of the sounds as US stuff was not widely imported what i cant understand is when it became widely available why stick with UK stuff. I guess its just a personal thing and not being around at the time it does`nt interest me...in fact i couldn`t bare having a British record in my box, even though i liked the record and regreat selling it now whenever i flicked through and saw all of those lovely exotic labels and then a plain black dreary looking Parlaphone next to them, Mark Lloyd just had to find a new home!

I have just spent the weekend with a John Anderson and we always end up talking about his British collection. I do find it interesting as John has so much passion for UK stuff.....i just prefer the US stuff myself!

Chris

ps. I do buy new UK stuff, no problem with that.

[Bigsoulman]

Does anyone still really seriously collect British? I mean it may have been ok in the 70s but as all of the best records came out on US labels first whats the point in collecting what are essentially re-issues of the original US release?

Chris

Can't believe you posted that up Chris!

Most people who collect UK stuff were there at the start and it really is a labour of love for many, me included, there is nothing better than looking at a red and white UK demo

Lenny

[Guest]

I realise that in the early days of the scene that British stuff was the only way to get most of the sounds as US stuff was not widely imported what i cant understand is when it became widely available why stick with UK stuff. I guess its just a personal thing and not being around at the time it does`nt interest me...in fact i couldn`t bare having a British record in my box, even though i liked the record and regreat selling it now whenever i flicked through and saw all of those lovely exotic labels and then a plain black dreary looking Parlaphone next to them, Mark Lloyd just had to find a new home!

I have just spent the weekend with a John Anderson and we always end up talking about his British collection. I do find it interesting as John has so much passion for UK stuff.....i just prefer the US stuff myself!

Chris

ps. I do buy new UK stuff, no problem with that.

Methinks your on your own there Chis

[Guest moggy]

In my early years collecting, the first non motown related soul record I bought was a copy of Shirley Ellis Soul Time on CBS UK for £2

and a copy of Jay & The Americans Got Hung Up Along The Way on British United Artists which in my opinion is one of the most attractive labels ever to come out over here, I later purchased Nev Wherys Demo when parts of his collection were sold off and again what a stunning looking label them UA demo's are (British ones of course)

Not realy about why collect British but I thought I would put my two bobs worth in

[Ted Massey]

I realise that in the early days of the scene that British stuff was the only way to get most of the sounds as US stuff was not widely imported what i cant understand is when it became widely available why stick with UK stuff. I guess its just a personal thing and not being around at the time it does`nt interest me...in fact i couldn`t bare having a British record in my box, even though i liked the record and regreat selling it now whenever i flicked through and saw all of those lovely exotic labels and then a plain black dreary looking Parlaphone next to them, Mark Lloyd just had to find a new home!

I have just spent the weekend with a John Anderson and we always end up talking about his British collection. I do find it interesting as John has so much passion for UK stuff.....i just prefer the US stuff myself!

Chris

ps. I do buy new UK stuff, no problem with that.

John obviously had a big change of heart cause in the mid 80's he told me as far as he was concerned all UK stuff was second issues and not worth bothering about, know idea what changed his mind thou

[Soul-slider]

John obviously had a big change of heart cause in the mid 80's he told me as far as he was concerned all UK stuff was second issues and not worth bothering about, know idea what changed his mind thou

John collects UK Ska/Reggae labels too!

[Britishbarry]

As most people have said , the attraction of collecting British goes back to the early days . In the mid sixties listening to records by the Four Top's , Temptations , Willie T (walking up a one way street) , Tony Clark (The Entertainer),Capitols ( Cool Jerk) etc. was to be into a type of music most people weren't aware of . The records often had to be ordered and there was great excitement when you got your hands on something like Darrel Banks on Stateside . These records in there day were just as exotic as any US record . I still prefer collecting British although I have a fairly good US collection as well . I can only assume it's an age thing .

[Chris Anderton]

John obviously had a big change of heart cause in the mid 80's he told me as far as he was concerned all UK stuff was second issues and not worth bothering about, know idea what changed his mind thou

.........

I think he has sold a couple of collections over the years Ted. He was telling me he had a typed darrel banks demo and a uk ben e king 'can't break the news' which apparently never came out.

I didn't realise there were so many people still collecting British, I rarely hear of anyone chasing British records or finding a long standing want.

Chris

[Steve G]

.........

I think he has sold a couple of collections over the years Ted. He was telling me he had a typed darrel banks demo and a uk ben e king 'can't break the news' which apparently never came out.

I didn't realise there were so many people still collecting British, I rarely hear of anyone chasing British records or finding a long standing want.

Chris

John certainly built up his UK collection again in the 80s and 90s - and why not? All those record fairs while he was selling us the US stuff he was going round the stalls and getting UK Soul / Blue Beat etc.

Chris I do agree nothing more boring than a box of black Parlaphones to trawl through - especially as there won't be much soul in there

Steve

[Stubbsy]

Methinks your on your own there Chis

No he's not! See Dave Greenhill's comments above

All the stuff I had in my "younger" days was on British but I didn't get the collecting bug proper till I started collecting US. I've bought numerous records on US which I already had on British, especially Motown stuff, but still kept the British one's as well! Guess I'm just a hoarder

Edited March 23, 2010 by Stubbsy

[jocko]

As most people have said , the attraction of collecting British goes back to the early days . In the mid sixties listening to records by the Four Top's , Temptations , Willie T (walking up a one way street) , Tony Clark (The Entertainer),Capitols ( Cool Jerk) etc. was to be into a type of music most people weren't aware of . The records often had to be ordered and there was great excitement when you got your hands on something like Darrel Banks on Stateside . These records in there day were just as exotic as any US record . I still prefer collecting British although I have a fairly good US collection as well . I can only assume it's an age thing .

I think it is mate, I am slightly older than Chris, although obviously don't look it, and British has always been a no no for me, gave the ones I had all away in mid 80's when I stupidly did the US only stance, one I gave away was a beautiul Marvin Gaye R&W, can't remember which one but it did look nice.

Like Chris, still can't get on with British, but nowadays if its cheap enough (like a Jean Plum UK demo with both sides hint hint) I'll take owt!!

[Guest dundeedavie]

I think it is mate, I am slightly older than Chris, although obviously don't look it, and British has always been a no no for me, gave the ones I had all away in mid 80's when I stupidly did the US only stance, one I gave away was a beautiul Marvin Gaye R&W, can't remember which one but it did look nice.

Like Chris, still can't get on with British, but nowadays if its cheap enough (like a Jean Plum UK demo with both sides hint hint) I'll take owt!!

i'm wi you Jock , never been bothered with british issue , or french EP's for that matter (had a few of both and got rid of em)

i like the idea of listening to the same issue as the americans would have had

[Sean Hampsey]

Confirmed then.

It's an 'age' thing.

Which is what Max said at the outset.

Sean

[Suzannek]

I love both as long as it's original and not a boot

Suz

x

[Chris Anderton]

Thats sorted then. Us "Young `uns" dont care for British because we were`nt around (alive!) when everyone was chasing them so there is no romance to collecting British for us.

Think that sums up the findings of this thread!

Chris

[pikeys dog]

Thats sorted then. Us "Young `uns" dont care for British because we were`nt around (alive!) when everyone was chasing them so there is no romance to collecting British for us.

Think that sums up the findings of this thread!

Chris

Just to throw a spanner in your works...

I'm 38, and a record collector.

UK labels I actively collect:

Soul City 45s and LPs

Action 45s and LPs

Deep Soul 45s and LPs

Chess 45s EPs and LPs

Atlantic (Black label) 45s

Grapevine (70s) 45s and LPs

Philly International 45s

And numerous other small run 70s labels (Swan, Cream, Special Agent etc.)

[Jim Elliott]

Yes Chris, it's an age thing mate, your not alone .

Jim

[Guest Gogs]

although i do try to collect mostly US i've got a lot of Uk stuff, some of it harder to find and dearer than US.

[Stuart Bower]

Does anyone still really seriously collect British? I mean it may have been ok in the 70s but as all of the best records came out on US labels first whats the point in collecting what are essentially re-issues of the original US release?

Chris

Like almost everything made in Britain back in the day..almost indestructable, heavy, hard as iron, virtually lasts forever. Making their American counterparts look soooo flimsy. The British sound engineers seemed to take the master tapes and tweaked em to sound even better than the American originals. And as someone else said on this thread.. Two red and whites (or greens) on the decks look so much cooler....

[Hammie]

No TIMI YURO - IT'LL NEVER BE OVER FOR ME for you then Chris what a shame

Or an ERNIE & ED - INDICATION - JAY BOY

to name a couple of british only gems

[Daniel Harvey]

Thats sorted then. Us "Young `uns" dont care for British because we were`nt around (alive!) when everyone was chasing them so there is no romance to collecting British for us.

Think that sums up the findings of this thread!

Chris

Not sure I agree with you on this Chris. I'm only 21 and UK demos are still the top of my list when I have the money. I reckon they posess a kind og attractivness which makes them desirable reagrdless of age. Especially when they have a date and a mention of the US label on them...still I may the exception to the rule here and to be fair I will always buy aussie copies over anything...just love seeing local labels with obscure US artists on the front.

Very intersesting thread!

[grouse]

Does anyone still really seriously collect British? I mean it may have been ok in the 70s but as all of the best records came out on US labels first whats the point in collecting what are essentially re-issues of the original US release?

Chris

I'm with you totally on this one

The only advantage with collecting British is the vinyl is much better quality than the crap styrene of many US releases (Blue Rock especially, must have been made out of recycled 78s)

[Baz Atkinson]

Love my british and Im only 46 lol,love the black action,stateside etc,think ive amassed about a 1000 without really paying much attention just buying nice interesting stuff-plenty on british and love some of the stuff kent put out -pretenders broken heart cries springs to mind -awesome is not the word for it!!!

BAZ A

[viphitman]

Fascinating stuff!! It's a UK thing but will it disappear once the old timers are all gone ??? Northern Soul in general seems to attract more and more people outside the UK which may keep the record hunting going but as for britsh collecting....I wonder...???? But they do look nice me thinks!!!

[soulAdequateNP]

Like almost everything made in Britain back in the day..almost indestructable, heavy, hard as iron, virtually lasts forever. Making their American counterparts look soooo flimsy. The British sound engineers seemed to take the master tapes and tweaked em to sound even better than the American originals. And as someone else said on this thread.. Two red and whites (or greens) on the decks look so much cooler....

They sure do:

From the first night at Worksop Arena - on the left: Four Tops TMG579, on the right: Stevie Wonder TMG558

[Mal C]

I collect USA then Australian, and some British, the Aussie I expect you rate even less that the Uk stuff... laughs

but Honestly Chris, you dont find it the least bit appealing collecting records like this??