Crossover

[Dave Thorley]

PPS

George M, no not you;)

[Little-stevie]

PS not going to give up on this Parliament thing though. I can remember sitting round with a bunch of respected artists in Detroit. They were talking about back in the day, as often they do and Parliaments influence came up in conversation. Someone said I think it was Joe Hunter or McKinley Jackson, 'we would be driving back late a night through west Detroit and George's group would be playing this new club, you could feel the funk six blocks away'. They were talking about 68/69 long before all the P-Funk stuff you refurre to, Parliment a funk group, oh yes.

befoe they crossed over

[manus]

Take a track such as the brilliant 'Wrong Crowd' by Prince George...

I reckon it could be defined by different people as being 'northern', 'modern', 'funky', whatever ...and it's pretty damn soulful too. So how do you define a record like that?

And what about 'Before 2001' by Rufus Wood or 'So Is The Sun' by The World Column? You can detect traces of soul, jazz, funk and even rock in there. So what bag do you put it in?

The more you analyse some tracks, the more difficult it gets.

So the answer is to categorise records in very simple ways ...such as "45 rpm" or "popular" or "stereo" or whatever.

I prefer mono records myself but each to his own.

It's what I like about the actual Crossover thread in Soul Audio Paul - The records posted come from all the decades from the 60s until now with productions reflecting eras and are uptempo , midtempo , downtempo any which way you like tempo and never once has any of the posters or listeners come onto the thread and questioned the genre of a tune - cos the thread seems to have one simple criteria and that is " lets share some good Soul music".

Cheers

Manus

Edited March 24, 2010 by manus

[Pete S]

Take a track such as the brilliant 'Wrong Crowd' by Prince George...

I reckon it could be defined by different people as being 'northern', 'modern', 'funky', whatever ...and it's pretty damn soulful too. So how do you define a record like that?

And what about 'Before 2001' by Rufus Wood or 'So Is The Sun' by The World Column? You can detect traces of soul, jazz, funk and even rock in there. So what bag do you put it in?

The more you analyse some tracks, the more difficult it gets.

So the answer is to categorise records in very simple ways ...such as "45 rpm" or "popular" or "stereo" or whatever.

I prefer mono records myself but each to his own.

They used to be known as 'funky northern' tracks

[Little-stevie]

It's what I like about the actual Crossover thread in Soul Audio Paul - The records posted come from all the decades from the 60s until now with productions reflecting eras and are uptempo , midtempo , downtempo any which way you like tempo and never once has any of the posters or listeners come onto the thread and questioned the genre of a tune - cos the thread seems to have one simple criteria and that is " lets share some goood Soul music".

Cheers

Manus

Hi Manus

We make this point how many times but some will always have to be looking for this box, that box bla bla bla... Human nature i guess for some....

While some of you spend hours and days looking for them boxes, we just sit there and listen to music from the gods and take each tune on its soulful output...

Peace brothers and sisters...

Listen to the music... xxx

[Dave Thorley]

Hi Manus

We make this point how many times but some will always have to be looking for this box, that box bla bla bla... Human nature i guess for some....

While some of you spend hours and days looking for them boxes, we just sit there and listen to music from the gods and take each tune on its soulful output...

Peace brothers and sisters...

Listen to the music... xxx

Agree, now I need to do some work.

[manus]

Hi Manus

We make this point how many times but some will always have to be looking for this box, that box bla bla bla... Human nature i guess for some....

While some of you spend hours and days looking for them boxes, we just sit there and listen to music from the gods and take each tune on its soulful output...

Peace brothers and sisters...

Listen to the music... xxx

Hello Steve

Spot on "Listen to the music" and get the buzz

All the best mate

Manus

[Ian Dewhirst]

Take a track such as the brilliant 'Wrong Crowd' by Prince George...

I reckon it could be defined by different people as being 'northern', 'modern', 'funky', whatever ...and it's pretty damn soulful too. So how do you define a record like that?

And what about 'Before 2001' by Rufus Wood or 'So Is The Sun' by The World Column? You can detect traces of soul, jazz, funk and even rock in there. So what bag do you put it in?

The more you analyse some tracks, the more difficult it gets.

So the answer is to categorise records in very simple ways ...such as "45 rpm" or "popular" or "stereo" or whatever.

I prefer mono records myself but each to his own.

All solid Cleethorpes tracks Paul but long before people felt compelled to catergorise 'em into neat little boxes. Mind you I can plainly remember getting harangued for playing Prince George, Frankie Crocker, Boby Franklin, Eddie Horan, East Coast Connection, Danny Reed and 'any more of that Funky shite' in the mid 70's so maybe things haven't changed that much ay.......?

Also, for once I agree with Pete. Even though I had one at the time, I'm damned if I could ever play "Wash & Wear Love". Just waaay too slow and it always emptied the floor on the odd occasion I aired it. And to me, nice as it is, that Sharon Jones track is too slow as well - OK for an armchair but not my idea of a peak time record......

Ian D

[Guest Paul]

It's what I like about the actual Crossover thread in Soul Audio Paul - The records posted come from all the decades from the 60s until now with productions reflecting eras and are uptempo , midtempo , downtempo any which way you like tempo and never once has any of the posters or listeners come onto the thread and questioned the genre of a tune - cos the thread seems to have one simple criteria and that is " lets share some good Soul music".

Cheers

Manus

We're so "cosmopolitan", Manus. That's what we are!

Right now I'm enjoying listening to some soulful reggae tracks.

[Guest James Trouble]

PS not going to give up on this Parliament thing though. I can remember sitting round with a bunch of respected artists in Detroit. They were talking about back in the day, as often they do and Parliaments influence came up in conversation. Someone said I think it was Joe Hunter or McKinley Jackson, 'we would be driving back late at night through west Detroit and George's group would be playing this new club, you could feel the funk six blocks away'. They were talking about 68/69 long before all the P-Funk stuff you refurre to, Parliment a funk group, oh yes.

Funk was first used as a descriptive term in the early 1900s in jazz, then in the 40s and 50s in RnB music.

Musicians such as Earl Palmer first used the term to describe drumming as 'funky'.

George Clinton and Bootsy Collins used the term to describe "on the one" and funky slap bass riffs and horn stabs and fused it with rock to create P-Funk.

James Brown's Cold Sweat is a good example of the classic 'funk' sound as it is widely understood today.

Carleen and The Groovers "Can We Rap" is possibly the the finest and purest example of what is understood to be funk music that was ever made.

It is a term which has now been adopted by the Deepfunk Scene, originally coined by Keb Darge, to describe the sound of the records that are played in clubs all over the world, even though they have nothing or little to do with Jazz music made in 1907 or RnB made in the 1950s or P-Funk Motherships.

Edited March 24, 2010 by James Trouble

[Val (Chunky)]

umm crossover for me has allways been a particular sort of sound.

Bob Relf's 'Girl, You're My Kind Of Wonderful', T.S.U. Toronados - Only Inside', are what I consider crossover, but then what would you call stuff like Bobby Womack - 'How Could You Break My Heart', Ed Summers - 'I Can Tell'.

Just giving these examples because a couple are obviously 60's records and Ed Summers is an 80's record.

On a different note here's a bit of Bootsy Collins with his brother Phelps as the House Guests....I think all would agree pretty damned funky.

HOUSE GUESTS - MY MIND SET ME FREE PART 1 - HOUSE GUESTS -

Edited March 24, 2010 by Val (Chunky)

[Guest Paul]

All solid Cleethorpes tracks Paul but long before people felt compelled to catergorise 'em into neat little boxes. Mind you I can plainly remember getting harangued for playing Prince George, Frankie Crocker, Boby Franklin, Eddie Horan, East Coast Connection, Danny Reed and 'any more of that Funky shite' in the mid 70's so maybe things haven't changed that much ay.......?

Also, for once I agree with Pete. Even though I had one at the time, I'm damned if I could ever play "Wash & Wear Love". Just waaay too slow and it always emptied the floor on the odd occasion I aired it. And to me, nice as it is, that Sharon Jones track is too slow as well - OK for an armchair but not my idea of a peak time record......

Ian D

Hello Ian,

I remember when I first went to Blackpool Mecca in 1974 when I was 16. Some of my mates called me "funky homo boy" and stuff because they thought it was all disco rubbish.

Yeah, "disco rubbish" like Diane Jenkins, Johnnie Baker, Marvin Holmes, James Fountain, The Carstairs, etc.

I still get a bit upset about it!

[George M]

umm crossover for me has allways been a particular sort of sound.

Bob Relf's 'Girl, You're My Kind Of Wonderful', T.S.U. Toronados - Only Inside', are what I consider crossover, but then what would you call stuff like Bobby Womack - 'How Could You Break My Heart', Ed Summers - 'I Can Tell'.

Just giving these examples because a couple are obviously 60's records and Ed Summers is an 80's record.

On a different note here's a bit of Bootsy Collins with his brother Phelps as the Hose Guests....I think all would agree pretty damned funky.

HOUSE GUESTS - MY MIND SET ME FREE PART 1 - HOUSE GUESTS -

There you go! Not to mention What So Never The Dance, the stuff on Philmore Sound / General American (where they were called the Complete Strangers to offset their contractual obligations to the Clinton camp), the hard funk sound on Parliament's Good Old Music or Funkadelic's I'll Bet You, George Clinton's work on JJ Barnes' very heavy So Called Friends, etc etc... Saying that lot weren't a funk band/s is a bit like trying to make a case for Bob Marley being a rapper.

[George M]

George Clinton and Bootsy Collins used the term to describe "on the four" and funky slap bass riffs and horn stabs and fused it with rock to create P-Funk.

It's "on the one", you div!

[Mike Lofthouse]

I still get a bit upset about it!

...and you have never got over it Paul

[Guest James Trouble]

It's "on the one", you div!

Typo innit

Edited March 24, 2010 by James Trouble

[Guest Paul]

It's "on the one", you div!

Yes, like I said earlier, the accent with funk is generally on the first beat, rather than on two and four.

[Guest Paul]

Hello Ian,

I remember when I first went to Blackpool Mecca in 1974 when I was 16. Some of my mates called me "funky homo boy" and stuff because they thought it was all disco rubbish.

Yeah, "disco rubbish" like Diane Jenkins, Johnnie Baker, Marvin Holmes, James Fountain, The Carstairs, etc.

I still get a bit upset about it!

Actually, it may have been early 1975 when I first when to Blackpool Mecca - not that it really matters.

I remember before I went up to the Highland Room I spent half an hour downstairs and they were playing 'Shame Shame Shame' by Shirley & Co which was a new import at that time. So if I can work out when it was released I'll know what year I first became a "funky homo boy".

Does anyone know the UK release date for 'Shame Shame Shame' ?

[Pete S]

Actually, it may have been early 1975 when I first when to Blackpool Mecca - not that it really matters.

I remember before I went up to the Highland Room I spent half an hour downstairs and they were playing 'Shame Shame Shame' by Shirley & Co which was a new import at that time. So if I can work out when it was released I'll know what year I first became a "funky homo boy".

Does anyone know the UK release date for 'Shame Shame Shame' ?

Not exactly, but it was definitely 1975. I bought it

[Guest Paul]

Not exactly, but it was definitely 1975. I bought it

Thanks Pete,

Early 1975 was the UK release date I reckon ...actually it was the very first 45 on the UK All Platinum label via Phonogram.

And you know what? When I first heard it on that great sound system I thought it was awesome.

I wonder if I should have spent more time downstairs at The Mecca?

[George M]

I'd still like to know the story behind Dean's involvement in the term "crossover". From what I understand it originally meant an "across the board" djing style that he came up with, that later became a descriptive term for a specific type of record within that spectrum, i.e. stuff that sounds like the Differences or whatever.

[Guest Paul]

...and you have never got over it Paul

That's right, Mike. I'm still a bit traumatised and I probably should have had some therapy or something.

You were probably at The Mecca when I first went (and also before) because I know you love the music from those days.

On my second or third visit Ian Levine introduced me to Herb Rooney who was wandering about chatting with people.

He told Herb I'd travelled "hundreds of miles" to be there. It wasn't quite that far but it seemed a long journey in those days, changing trains etc.

I just realised... "crossover" really means crossing over The Pennines!

[Sebastian]

I think that the now almost 20 years old(!) Goldmine CD "Crossover Soul" (GSCD 9) makes a perfect case of what Rod Dearlove's definition of the term "crossover" was meant to describe.

It's all late 60s and early-to-mid 70s stuff and has got a unified sound that is very easy to pin down in my opinion.

Whether you agree with this definition is a different matter, I guess.

Here's the tracklisting for that CD:

01 - RUBY ANDREWS - Just Lovin' You

02 - THE JUSTICE DEPT - Come Back Baby (To My Empty Arms)

03 - GEORGE PERKINS - I'm So Glad You're Mine

04 - SIDE SHOW - Lonely Girl

05 - VEE GEES - Talkin'

06 - JEANIE TRACY - Making New Friends

07 - BOB RELF - Girl, You're My Kind Of Wonderful

08 - ULTIMATES - Girl I've Been Trying To Tell You

09 - TY KARIM - Lightin' Up [Romark version]

10 - WILLIE TEE - Teasin' You Again

11 - TURNER BROS - Let's Go Fishing

12 - CREATIONS - A Dream

13 - ELLA WOODS - I Need Your Love

14 - GEORGE WILSON - Here Stands A Man Who Needs You

15 - JOHNNY THOMPSON - Given Up On Love

16 - DOROTHY JOHNSON - If It's Not Love Don't Waste My Time

17 - SMOKE - Have I Really Lost You

18 - SHOCK - Footsteps Across Your Mind

19 - SHELLY FISHER - Girl I Love You

20 - CELEST HARDIE - You're Gone

21 - VESSIE SIMMONS - Better To Bend Than Break

22 - WINSTONS - Colour Him Father

23 - LYNN VERNANDO - Wash And Wear Love

[Little-stevie]

Have said before.....

The term crossover.. I first remember hearing the term from Richard Sealing at Parkers hotel in Manchester, early 90s...

Think he was playing Cornelius brothers at the time..

cheers

[Chalky]

Classic Deepfunk, and very far removed from p-funk gimmickry that seems to get associated with "funk".

Been a spin for Butch recently as well, when he plays away from clubs, such as Lifeline and the 100 Club, which restrict and shackle his playlist.

What has changed so much over the years that tracks which are like "The Crow", Undisputed Truth "You + Me", Country Road or one of the countless funk, disco, (and crossover) sounds that are now concidered Northern Soul Oldies can not be accepted by those in positions of influence?

Back on to the original question, what is crossover?

I like the description that crossover soul is a bit like northern soul (whatever that is) but a bit more jangly. Silly but probably accurate.

I've no wish to get into an arguement James, they lead no where but he only person that dictates what a DJ plays at Lifeline is the DJ himself so please stop insinuating that Lifeline shackles a DJ's playlist. records from across the soul spectrum have and still do get an airing. If Butch or any other Dj does not wish to play a particular record than that is the choice of the DJ, certainly not the promoters or the promotion which you constantly keep having sly digs at.

And who has said that they cannot accept the Crow, Country Road aren't NS oldies? I don't recall reading anything anywhere?

Anyway lets try and keep this on topic.

[Chalky]

Have said before.....

The term crossover.. I first remember hearing the term from Richard Sealing at Parkers hotel in Manchester, early 90s...

Think he was playing Cornelius brothers at the time..

cheers

I remember the nights at Parkers, great nights they were too. But I certainly remember the term crossover from the mid 80's...Thorne etc. Still think the term no longer means what it did and refers to a style of record now and the fact that many a dealer has cottoned on to it to shift records they had no label for.

Agree with Dave T that it shouldn't be pigeon holed but at the end of the day genres/titles have been around for decades and can't see them disappearing.

[Wrongcrowd]

umm crossover for me has allways been a particular sort of sound.

Bob Relf's 'Girl, You're My Kind Of Wonderful', T.S.U. Toronados - Only Inside', are what I consider crossover, but then what would you call stuff like Bobby Womack - 'How Could You Break My Heart', Ed Summers - 'I Can Tell'.

Just giving these examples because a couple are obviously 60's records and Ed Summers is an 80's record.

Ed Summers, Bobby Womack - 'Modern Soul' (of course) ..... get a grip....

[Steve G]

Well great to see an outbreak of reasonable behaviour here today....and an acceptance of Parliament / Funkadelic etc. and their 60s and early 70s stuff.

It is true that crossover today embraces some of the old Mecca stuff, but I think when it was originally coined it was to describe a certain type of sound. Rod's article was aimed more at the 'modern' scene reader as Gareth says, and it was a way of describing older sounds that weren't uptempo northern but still had a beat.

Keep playing nicely while I go and get me lunch!

[Guest]

Keep playing nicely while I go and get me lunch!

Very educational thread, this!

[KevH]

Well great to see an outbreak of reasonable behaviour here today....and an acceptance of Parliament / Funkadelic etc. and their 60s and early 70s stuff.

It is true that crossover today embraces some of the old Mecca stuff, but I think when it was originally coined it was to describe a certain type of sound. Rod's article was aimed more at the 'modern' scene reader as Gareth says, and it was a way of describing older sounds that weren't uptempo northern but still had a beat.

Keep playing nicely while I go and get me lunch!

Maybe James's very early point about Parliament/Funkadelic was based on Maggot Brain,and not Mothership Connection for instance?

[Guest fryer]

James

I in no way dismiss the 'Deep Funk' scene. I think it's influence over the wider rare soul scene in the past few years has been one of the great positives and have said so, publicly on more than one occasion. I simple have a problem when people who had nothing to do with making the music tell everyone what this or that definition of whatever is. As you righty say the definition of 'Deep Funk' is clearly documented, but it's a definition generated here and not by the musicians.

I still feel that us guys here deciding weather that respected group or another is a funk group is insulting to them. They made the music for god sake, they know better than anyone if they were laying down a funk track.

I also agree that the UK scene will for ever more suffer from all the baggage it has to carry around with it, this is the great advantage that most other parts of the world don't have to deal with. That is also why things seem much freshers there than here. But athough it is easy to travel most places now, I still live here and so just critirsizing the UK scene(s) serves no positive purpose. Old many might be and forgetful maybe, but many of these guys laid down the roots of scenes that flourish worldwide.

So if I offended, you or anyone else yesterday, sorry

But will everyone stop with this obsession of labeling everything. 'Is it soulful, good, is it dancable, good.

The demographic of the people i hang out with has nothing to do with this. I still don't see how you cant see that parliment/funkadelic is unrepresentative of the funk sound, just because it was popular and used the word funk does not make representative of funk as a whole though I accept its part of the spectrum. There is Nothing wrong with the music, maggotbrain is one of my top tracks but its not really an example of funk like say "cold sweat". It has the funk there inside inside the music, but rock, psychedelia, jazz with a sun ra style pantomime aesthetic is what it is, its broader rockfunk sounds was was also the reason it crossed over and was commercially successful. Hose Guests was indeed a great funk record, im not trying to say nobody in funkadelic ever made a funk record, funkadelic themselves made some great funk records but most of their output was not funk although it was funk.

Edited March 24, 2010 by fryer

[Ian Dewhirst]

The demographic of the people i hang out with has nothing to do with this. I still don't see how you cant see that parliment/funkadelic is unrepresentative of the funk sound though, just because it was popular and used the word funk does not make representative of funk as a whole though I accept its part of the spectrum. There is Nothing wrong with the music, maggotbrain is one of my top tracks but its not really an example of funk like say "cold sweat". It has the funk there inside inside the music, but rock, psychedelia, jazz with a sun ra style pantomime aesthetic is what it is, its broader rockfunk sounds was was also the reason it crossed over and was commercially successful. I accept that there is individual track by all the artists that would be considered a more pure funk sound but im looking at the band overall.

Funk is a constantly mutating creature and took many different forms throughout the 60's, 70's and 80's predominently so I don't think you can realistically isolate Parliament/Funkadelic from your definition of funk Fryer. I think you'll find that the majority of people will accept that Funk falls into the kind of catergories that Rickey Vincent covers in his book "Funk".

https://www.rickeyvincent.com/circles2.htm

Wouldn't Rare Funk be a better term for the more obscure stuff?

Ian D

[George M]

The demographic of the people i hang out with has nothing to do with this. I still don't see how you cant see that parliment/funkadelic is unrepresentative of the funk sound, just because it was popular and used the word funk does not make representative of funk as a whole though I accept its part of the spectrum. There is Nothing wrong with the music, maggotbrain is one of my top tracks but its not really an example of funk like say "cold sweat". It has the funk there inside inside the music, but rock, psychedelia, jazz with a sun ra style pantomime aesthetic is what it is, its broader rockfunk sounds was was also the reason it crossed over and was commercially successful. Hose Guests was indeed a great funk record, im not trying to say nobody in funkadelic ever made a funk record, funkadelic themselves made some great funk records but most of their output was not funk although it was funk.

Fryer, he's just picking on you because he thinks there's only 4 of us. Little does he realise there's about 17.

Bet he's still simmering about that proposed fight with Gerald that didn't come through... Dave, you should've come to Prestatyn, a Top Dog vs Jazzman arm wrestling grudge match in the record bar might've livened things up a bit.

I think you'll find that the majority of people will accept that Funk falls into the kind of catergories that Rickey Vincent covers in his book "Funk".

Quite the opposite: I think you'll find that the majority of people think that Rickey Vincent is a clown and his book is a bag of shite.

[Guest James Trouble]

Quite the opposite: I think you'll find that the majority of people think that Rickey Vincent is a clown and his book is a bag of shite.

Now that's hip. Pow!

[Ian Dewhirst]

Quite the opposite: I think you'll find that the majority of people think that Rickey Vincent is a clown and his book is a bag of shite.

I don't like it either if the truth's known. Care to suggest an alternative that'll give some people a clearer understanding of 'funk' then? Or maybe a fanzine if there's only 17 of you...........

Ian D

[Guest James Trouble]

And who has said that they cannot accept the Crow, Country Road aren't NS oldies? I don't recall reading anything anywhere?

Probably worth starting by rereading my post, you seem to have missed out a word or two

[DtheD]

I'd still like to know the story behind Dean's involvement in the term "crossover". From what I understand it originally meant an "across the board" djing style that he came up with, that later became a descriptive term for a specific type of record within that spectrum, i.e. stuff that sounds like the Differences or whatever.

George, Dean's involvement came from the same perspective as Rod Dearlove and was expressed at the 'Parker's' soul nights which he co promoted with Richard Searling. The early doors sessions were almost exclusively rare, midtempo seventies and was the first place i heard the likes of James Phelps-look on your face, Ty karim on Romark, Willie Tee, 'Teasing you again', Cynthia Sheeler on J.B's, Alex Brown etc.

As these records reflected the kind of sounds being played across the hills in Rod Dearloves Thorne nights at the same time, Parkers is often spoken about in the same breath as being in the vanguard of what was to become the crossover 'scene', when that phrase was finally coined.

With regards to Dean's 'across the board' style , parkers was at a time when newly released music did not jar so glaringly against late 60's early 70's , and that, together with Dean's funk/jazz/latin proclivities, the contemporaneously flourishing London 2-step scene, and the left overs from the Rare Groove explosion made for a glorious mix that many promoters have tried to match over the years. This, however in itself, has nothing to do with the term 'crossover'.

I know Dean does take a peak on here from time to time and would be interested to hear his perspective.

[Little-stevie]

George, Dean's involvement came from the same perspective as Rod Dearlove and was expressed at the 'Parker's' soul nights which he co promoted with Richard Searling. The early doors sessions were almost exclusively rare, midtempo seventies and was the first place i heard the likes of James Phelps-look on your face, Ty karim on Romark, Willie Tee, 'Teasing you again', Cynthia Sheeler on J.B's, Alex Brown etc.

As these records reflected the kind of sounds being played across the hills in Rod Dearloves Thorne nights at the same time, Parkers is often spoken about in the same breath as being in the vanguard of what was to become the crossover 'scene', when that phrase was finally coined.

With regards to Dean's 'across the board' style , parkers was at a time when newly released music did not jar so glaringly against late 60's early 70's , and that, together with Dean's funk/jazz/latin proclivities, the contemporaneously flourishing London 2-step scene, and the left overs from the Rare Groove explosion made for a glorious mix that many promoters have tried to match over the years. This, however in itself, has nothing to do with the term 'crossover'.

I know Dean does take a peak on here from time to time and would be interested to hear his perspective.

does anyone know what the cd was called that featured Cornelius brothers and other crossover tracks, a red cover i think??? i think Richard Searling did the sleeve notes???

This was my first real introduction to the word crossover ...

I have the cd someplace, will try and dig it out..

[Guest JohnnyHitman]

Quite the opposite: I think you'll find that the majority of people think that Rickey Vincent is a clown and his book is a bag of shite.

Yeah, well maybe we're total nerds but to start with it isn't! It gives u an overview of the commercially successful bands of that time, it doesn't dig any deeper, so what?? Some played pure Funk, some less. Just because we're totally bollocks and just look for the obscure it doesn't make early Commodores records not "real funk" records.

Sure there are better books about Funk/Soul but to start with it's not the worst!!

[binsy]

does anyone know what the cd was called that featured Cornelius brothers and other crossover tracks, a red cover i think??? i think Richard Searling did the sleeve notes???

This was my first real introduction to the word crossover ...

I have the cd someplace, will try and dig it out..

Was it 'Get involved' mate?

Track Listing

1. Get Involved George Soule

more 2. Got To Get Over Brothers Unlimited

more 3. 90% Of Me Is You Vanessa Kendrick

more 4. Reason To Survive Rance Allen

more 5. All This Love I'm Givin' Gwen McCrae

more 6. Back From The Dead Bobby Byrd

more 7. I'm Just Not Ready For Love The Ikettes

more 8. Standing In The Way Charles Williams

more 9. To Hurt To Cry Candi Staton

more 10. You Had It Made Freddie Terrell

more 11. Can't Forget About You Baby Marion Love

more 12. How Can I Go On Without You Corey Blake

more 13. My Desires Are Getting The Best Of Me George Jackson

more 14. You Keep Coming Back 100% Pure Poison

more 15. Too Late To Turn Back Now Cornelius Brothers

Sister Rose

more 16. Something Special Lew Kirton

more 17. Can't Stop Loving You The Love Affair

more 18. That Ain't The Way You Make Love Z.Z. Hill

more 19. What You Tryin' To Do To Me Margie Alexander

more 20. Treat Me Like A Stranger Donny Mann

more

Edited March 24, 2010 by binsy

[George M]

George, Dean's involvement came from the same perspective as Rod Dearlove and was expressed at the 'Parker's' soul nights which he co promoted with Richard Searling. The early doors sessions were almost exclusively rare, midtempo seventies and was the first place i heard the likes of James Phelps-look on your face, Ty karim on Romark, Willie Tee, 'Teasing you again', Cynthia Sheeler on J.B's, Alex Brown etc.

As these records reflected the kind of sounds being played across the hills in Rod Dearloves Thorne nights at the same time, Parkers is often spoken about in the same breath as being in the vanguard of what was to become the crossover 'scene', when that phrase was finally coined.

With regards to Dean's 'across the board' style , parkers was at a time when newly released music did not jar so glaringly against late 60's early 70's , and that, together with Dean's funk/jazz/latin proclivities, the contemporaneously flourishing London 2-step scene, and the left overs from the Rare Groove explosion made for a glorious mix that many promoters have tried to match over the years. This, however in itself, has nothing to do with the term 'crossover'.

I know Dean does take a peak on here from time to time and would be interested to hear his perspective.

That's what I was looking for, cheers Dave.

[Little-stevie]

Was it 'Get involved' mate?

Track Listing

1. Get Involved George Soule

more 2. Got To Get Over Brothers Unlimited

more 3. 90% Of Me Is You Vanessa Kendrick

more 4. Reason To Survive Rance Allen

more 5. All This Love I'm Givin' Gwen McCrae

more 6. Back From The Dead Bobby Byrd

more 7. I'm Just Not Ready For Love The Ikettes

more 8. Standing In The Way Charles Williams

more 9. To Hurt To Cry Candi Staton

more 10. You Had It Made Freddie Terrell

more 11. Can't Forget About You Baby Marion Love

more 12. How Can I Go On Without You Corey Blake

more 13. My Desires Are Getting The Best Of Me George Jackson

more 14. You Keep Coming Back 100% Pure Poison

more 15. Too Late To Turn Back Now Cornelius Brothers

Sister Rose

more 16. Something Special Lew Kirton

more 17. Can't Stop Loving You The Love Affair

more 18. That Ain't The Way You Make Love Z.Z. Hill

more 19. What You Tryin' To Do To Me Margie Alexander

more 20. Treat Me Like A Stranger Donny Mann

more

Thats the one mate...

Cheers...

A good example of crossover maybe for any who are not so sure about the definition i guess.. I think the crossover reference is used on them sleeve notes for certain track??? aint played it in a long long time, will dig it out,,,

Thanks mate

Edited March 24, 2010 by little-stevie

[Val (Chunky)]

Ed Summers, Bobby Womack - 'Modern Soul' (of course) ..... get a grip....

30 year old modern........doh!

[Dave Thorley]

Fryer, he's just picking on you because he thinks there's only 4 of us. Little does he realise there's about 17.

Bet he's still simmering about that proposed fight with Gerald that didn't come through... Dave, you should've come to Prestatyn, a Top Dog vs Jazzman arm wrestling grudge match in the record bar might've livened things up a bit.

Quite the opposite: I think you'll find that the majority of people think that Rickey Vincent is a clown and his book is a bag of shite.

Why, did it need living up then ?. But to be fair had I known that I would have been up there like a shot:)

You gonna be at Stafford in two weeks

[George M]

Yeah, well maybe we're total nerds but to start with it isn't! It gives u an overview of the commercially successful bands of that time, it doesn't dig any deeper, so what?? Some played pure Funk, some less. Just because we're totally bollocks and just look for the obscure it doesn't make early Commodores records not "real funk" records.

Sure there are better books about Funk/Soul but to start with it's not the worst!!

It's not so much the content (although there are numerous problems on that score) - more that it's written in the style of Smashey & Nicey crossed with a small child.

[Chalky]

Probably worth starting by rereading my post, you seem to have missed out a word or two

What has changed so much over the years that tracks which are like "The Crow", Undisputed Truth "You + Me", Country Road or one of the countless funk, disco, (and crossover) sounds that are now concidered Northern Soul Oldies can not be accepted by those in positions of influence?

I've read it.....I don't know anyone that hasn't accepted them as oldies, where has it been said they aren't, they are died in the wool oldies, not exactly underplayed either records like the Crow, maybe some have moved on to something else after all these years.

[Chalky]

What was the issue of Voices that Rod wrote the article about crossover?

[Dave Thorley]

It's not so much the content (although there are numerous problems on that score) - more that it's written in the style of Smashey & Nicey crossed with a small child.

Look stop wasting your time on here and go on Ebay and bid on the 'Rare DEEEEEEEEEP Funk LP' I've got up for sale;)

[Steve G]

Later I'll put up some of the sounds Rod listed as crossover to give some additional perspective to the type of sound being championed in 1990. It is fair to say that "crossover" has expanded in it's definiton since then, probably because the venues that advertise themselves as promoting crossover tend to play a very broad range of sounds from the 60s through to some of the better more recent releases that have that 'feel'. To my ears something like "How could you break my heart" or Ed Summers "I can tell" wouldn't fall into my personal definition of "crossover", but they have of course been played at crossover venues, and maybe that's what matters.

[Sebastian]

I've read it.....I don't know anyone that hasn't accepted them as oldies, where has it been said they aren't, they are died in the wool oldies, not exactly underplayed either records like the Crow, maybe some have moved on to something else after all these years.

I think what James meant to write was something along the lines of:

"Why can't new spins that sounds like or are similar to The Crow etc. be accepted by those in positions of influence?"

I might be wrong though, but that is how I read it.